HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/26/2018 Council-Elect (Organizational) minutes, 2018-2010 2018-2020 KAUAI COUNTY COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING
NOVEMBER 26, 2018
The 2018-2020 Kaua`i County Council-Elect Meeting of the Council of the
County of Kaua`i was called to order by Jade K. Fountain-Tanigawa, County Clerk,
on Monday, November 26, 2018. At 3:30 p.m., at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice
Street, Suite 201, Historic County Building, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, and the presence of the
following was noted:
Councilmember-Elect Arthur Brun
Councilmember-Elect Felicia Cowden
Councilmember-Elect Mason K. Chock
Councilmember-Elect Luke A. Evslin
Councilmember-Elect Ross Kagawa
Councilmember-Elect Arryl Kaneshiro
Councilmember-Elect KipuKai Kuali`i
PUBLIC TESTIMONY.
All public testimony for this Meeting will be taken at the beginning of the Meeting.
Each speaker shall have a total of three (3) minutes to speak on the items for
discussion listed below.
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: If you have not registered,
please do so at the corner.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I have a question.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Sure.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: We have so many people here to testify, so I
just wanted to make clear so that the testifiers know that right now, they have the
chance to speak. But it is for all items at one (1) time, correct?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes. As people are registering,
we will start with the first registered speaker. Ken Taylor.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
KEN TAYLOR: Councilmembers-Elect, Ken Taylor. I have
some questions and concerns about this meeting. First of all, I would like to know
where you get the authority to call a meeting since you have not been sworn into
office. You have no authority over the Charter at this point in time. What gives you
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 2 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
the authority to call this meeting? I want answers and if I do not get answers, I will
sit here until the police come and remove me, so please be prepared to give me some
answers. Normally, the Council Chair signs-off on the agenda. Who is the Council
Chair that signed off on today's agenda?
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Can we call Mauna Kea up?
Mr. Taylor: Who has the authority to call this meeting to
order? She does not have the authority. It is not in the Charter. The Charter is
being violated by this meeting. I think you need to abandon this meeting immediately
and reschedule it for the 3rd of December after you are sworn in.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Mr. Taylor, if you are—Mr. Taylor?
MAUNA KEA TRASK, County Attorney: Ken, can I sit in your chair?
Mr. Taylor: You want my chair?
Mr. Trask: I do.
Mr. Taylor: I will get it back.
Mr. Trask: Aloha. For the record, Mauna Kea Trask,
County Attorney. Sorry. Pardon my levity, Mr. Taylor is staring at me right now as
I sit here. In short, for the record, the County of Kaua`i Office of the County Clerk
has an opinion dated November 14, 2002 from the State of Hawai`i Office of
Information Practices (OIP), which is a State agency that oversees the Sunshine Law
and the Uniform Information Practices Act (UIPA) open records law. Actually, it is
addressed to Mr. Anthony's Summer, Reporter for the Star Bulletin—Kaua`i,
regarding the meetings of Councilmembers who have not yet officially taken office to
discuss selection of officers. In effect, because the members before this elected body
today are sworn in next Monday the 3rd at the meeting at high noon or whatever it is,
you are not covered by the Sunshine Law. So therefore, OIP has opined in OIP
Opinion Letter No. 02-11 that "it is not illegal for a quorum of newly elected members
of a Council to meet privately to discuss selection of officers prior to commencement
of the terms of office." So that does not cover this, but if this elected body would want
to, you could meet at Tip Top Motel Cafe and Bakery or wherever else you want to go
and figure this all out. However, in speaking with the Office of the County Clerk, it
is likewise not illegal for you to meet here today and I will tell you why. The reason
why is because the Sunshine Law and judicial decisions from the State of Hawai`i
interpreting the Sunshine Law really focus on what is called the "spirit" of the
Sunshine Law, which is the open and available process for the public to be part of
decision-making to understand what government is doing because the cornerstone of
democracy is citizen participation. Although not required, I think it is in line in the
spirit to have a meeting like this today. It is my understanding that communication
has been made with OIP and the Office of the County Clerk has gotten—I do not want
to say approval because they are not really necessary for approval, but they do have
concurred that it is within the spirit of the Sunshine Law and they do not object to
and they encourage meetings like this so people can participate meaningfully in the
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 3 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
process. I understand there have been a lot of rumors and unwarranted allegations
of...I do not know whether it is collusion or it other things are happening. To my
understanding, it is not the case and I think it is commendable for this body to open
up their deliberative process to include people to let them know that you are just
doing what you are going to do. In 2014 when I was confirmed, the Council Meeting
went really long. It went to about 6:30 in the evening. In the interest of time,
economy, efficiency, and understanding the past, legally, the Council has worked
these things out, but we are in a new time right now. Thank you very much for
holding this meeting. Mr. Taylor is wrong. It is not illegal. It is not against the
Charter. The Charter does not even talk about the Sunshine Law. It was drafted
twenty (20) or thirty (30) years before it was even enacted. Thank you. You are all
okay. I think none of the decisions that you will make today will be effectuated until
you take official action on the 3rd at about 12:01 p.m. or shortly thereafter, but
nonetheless, thank you for being so diligent. That is all.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next registered speaker is Alice Parker.
(Councilmember-Elect Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Taylor: I will wait until Councilmember-Elect
Kagawa comes back.
ALICE PARKER: May I testify next to you?
Mr. Taylor: Huh?
Ms. Parker: May I testify next to you?
Mr. Taylor: Next to me?
Ms. Parker: Yes. I am next up.
Mr. Taylor: But I am not finished.
Ms. Parker: Alright. I will sit down.
Mr. Taylor: Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: How much more time does he have?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: He has one (1) minute and thirty (30) seconds.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: You have about one (1) minute and thirty (30)
seconds left, Ken.
Mr. Taylor: I am not on the timeclock.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa has left the room. There is no reason for him to go out
during a meeting of this nature with the discussion that is on the table. I think it is
very rude when you Councilmembers get up and walk out of the room during public
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 4 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
comment just because you do not want to hear something. It is unfortunate. No one
forced you to run for office. You have made that decision on your own. You have been
elected to represent the people of this County. When we take the time out of our
schedules to come and testify, you should have the desire to want to hear what we
have to say.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Jade, would we be able to have Alice
testify and then Ken can come back when Councilmember-Elect Kagawa is here?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: She could. He would just need to sit...
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: If she is fine testifying.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: He could have his remaining time. He would
need to sit...
Mr. Taylor: I am not finished with my testimony.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: When Councilmember-Elect Kagawa comes
back, then you can come back up.
Mr. Taylor: I am sorry?
Councilmember-Elect Brun: When Councilmember-Elect Kagawa comes
back, then you can come back up if you want to wait for Councilmember-Elect
Kagawa. But we can get through the other people who want to testify.
Mr. Taylor: Again, my question to you folks is, where in
the Charter do you get the authority that you are not sworn into office, where do you
get the authority to post an agenda on the County website and use...
(Councilmember-Elect Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Taylor: ...County staff to put an agenda together?
Which one of you has the authority to approve this agenda? You are not sworn into
office. As I said, I need some answers and if I do not get some answers, I will sit here
until the police come to remove me. Seven (7) of you or someone has to have an
answer. You called the meeting. Someone approved this agenda. Who was it?
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I think you should try.
Mr. Trask: Mr. Taylor, let me give it one (1) more try.
Mr. Taylor: Do you want my chair again?
Mr. Trask: I do. I am sorry.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Ken, I want to make sure you can hear Mauna
Kea and his explanation as to why it is legal to have this meeting.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 5 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Mr. Taylor: I am listening.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Mauna Kea, can you also share how long
these types of meetings have going on? I mean, it is probably close to forty (40) or
fifty (50)years. Anyways, it is not something that has been done differently this year.
It has been done like this in the past—I do not know, twenty (20) years or so, with
many new Councils.
Mr. Trask: Yes. For the record, Mauna Kea Trask,
County Attorney. A couple of things, in response to what I stated earlier, the
Sunshine Law is not a County law, it is a State law, and so it is not covered in the
Charter. However, the County Council is bound by it as a board or commission under
Chapter 92, so it does apply. Under Section 2.01 and again, this Charter was written
after three (3) drafts on or about 1968 or 1969, so it was quite a while ago.
Nonetheless, it says, "in addition to the express powers enumerated herein or implied
thereby, it is intended that the county shall have and may exercise all powers it would
be competent for this charter to enumerate expressly." I think clearly, this would be
something the Charter could authorize to be held. Again, there is nothing offensive
about it. In fact, if you understand the process, I think the alternative if you were to
follow Mr. Taylor's demand, that has no factual or legal basis whatsoever. The
alternative, I think, would be less preferable, the majority of the people sitting behind
me today wanted this to be an open meeting. They did not want you to sit, legally
meet, and decide this in a back room. If you want to hold this outside and involve
them, I think that goes towards benefiting democracy and not against it.
Nonetheless, this is not Mr. Taylor's meeting, this is your meeting, and this is the
other people in this room's meeting right now. I do think that Mr. Taylor or actually,
I know, that he has used his three (3) minutes. I think it is best if everyone else in
this room gets to testify as well. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Can you just share, again, the question that
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa asked about how long this has been going on and has
it always been a public meeting?
Mr. Trask: During the Statehood, this has been going on
under our County Charter since about 1968 or 1969. Then prior to that, it was going
on under the Territorial Board of Supervisors system. They would meet and the
Sunshine Law was not a requirement back then. When I came in, a lot of the old-
timers told me, "Oh, it was way better back then. We could just get it all done. We
would just show up and the meeting would be ten (10) minutes." We have moved
away from that. This is more inclusive right now. More people are participating in
the system. I think that is a good thing. I think Mr. Taylor has made his stand and
he can go congratulate himself for it later, but I think that issue is done. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Mauna Kea, can you clarify something?
This meeting is to be more efficient with the way we run the County Council, right?
The other option would be that we show up at Inauguration and then we end up
arguing it at Inauguration, we do not know when anyone is going to get appointed,
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 6 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
we take all of the public testimony, and we would hold up the entire Inauguration. I
think the intent of this meeting has always been to get that work done here so that
when we go to inauguration, it is a smooth Inauguration, everyone knows where
everyone stands, and we can get through the Inauguration and start our Council year
with a clean slate.
Mr. Trask: Yes. I think not only that, but it is good
because you can hear what is being said today and think about it. Do you know what
I mean? You can do a bunch of different things. You have time. Inauguration
provides that you have to go to the Kaua`i Memorial Convention Hall, you have to
have this meeting at a certain time, and you have to do certain things. The Mayor is
the effective Chair for a ceremonial period and then you do all of these other things.
It is going to go quick. I think this is good and you are including everyone else.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Felicia Cowden. Just to clarify, we are not
officially voting on decisions today, right? We are just talking about it.
Mr. Trask: Correct.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: There are no decisions that are made, so as a
Council-Elect, we are not actually taking action. We are just having a public
conversation as opposed to sequential private conversations or whatever way it ends
up happening, right?
Mr. Trask: Yes.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: It is bringing it out in front of everyone, but
no decisions are being made and no real action is happening.
Mr. Trask: Correct. This is the preferred alternative to
two (2) equally viable processes, but I think this is more favored by OIP because it is
open.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Office of...
Mr. Trask: Information Practices. Okay.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Alice Parker.
Mr. Taylor: Excuse me. I am not finished.
Mr. Trask: Let me hold the chair before you fall.
Mr. Taylor: The action today is not the discussion of what
is going on. The action today was a posting of this meeting, which I do not think you
have the authority to do. I think it is imperative that you understand the difference
between what you think you would like to talk about and the action that was taken
to schedule this meeting. That is where you are in violation of the law. I want to just
read you the last two (2) paragraphs of an OIP Opinion Letter No. 02-11. "The OIP
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 7 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
is of the official opinion that it is not illegal for quorum of newly elected members of
the Council to meet privately to discuss selection of officers prior to commencement
of their terms of office. The OIP also believes this result arises from an unintended
loophole in the Sunshine Law. Therefore, for the reasons set forth above in the
opinion, OIP strongly recommends that a quorum of member-elect of a board not
assemble privately prior to officially taking office to discuss selection of board officers
in keeping with the spirit of the Sunshine Law." Now, this has nothing to do—these
are the last two (2) paragraphs of a sixteen (16) page document. What I am saying is
that when you have this on top of what you have done illegally, again, show me in the
Charter where it gives you the authority that you are not sworn in, the authority to
call a meeting, make an agenda, and post it on the website. Why was the rest of us
not notified when we have signed up to get meeting notices? I know it is a courtesy...
SCOTT K. SATO, Deputy County Clerk: Mr. Taylor, you are over your
three (3) minutes.
Mr. Taylor: Excuse me. I am in the process of making a
presentation.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Your three (3) minutes are over.
Mr. Taylor: You have to call the police.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: They are coming.
Mr. Taylor: Call them. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: They are coming.
Mr. Taylor: Okay. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: Can we take a recess, please?
Mr. Taylor: When you have...
Councilmember-Elect Brun: Five (5) minute recess.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:52 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 3:58 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next registered speaker is Alice Parker,
followed by Lonnie Sykos.
Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. What I would
like to say is regarding running meetings. Consider reinstating that the public may
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 8 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
speaker for three (3) minutes at the beginning on any item on the agenda so people
who have other conflicting appointments can make it here. The other thing is...
(Councilmember Brun was noted as present.)
Ms. Parker: What is the other thing? It blew my mind. I
do not know. I am sorry. I will have to write it down. The other thing is,
transportation. We desperately need a bus stop on Pahe`e Street, so get someone who
can push transportation along. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Lonnie Sykos, followed by Bonnie Bator.
Bonnie.
BONNIE BATOR: Aloha. I just recently had cataract surgery, so
it is a little difficult here.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Please state your name.
Ms. Bator: Aloha. It is with great appreciation to be
present today at a time when working class tax paying people are able to attend a
Kaua`i County Council Meeting provided that they are not stuck in gridlock traffic. I
am representing my ohana to support Councilmember-Elect Chock to be appointed
as Council Chair. He received more votes, twelve thousand nine hundred
thirty-one (12,931) in this past election, votes that are accurately representing
working class tax paying people. These voters know that Councilmember-Elect
Chock represents them, not large landowners, their subsidiaries, nor multinational
corporations. As well, these voters know of Councilmember-Elect Chock's good
character, caliber, and his magnitude of genuine aloha aina for Kaua`i, Hawai`i nei,
and its children exalting future generations to ensure their goodness and leadership
for betterment of attempting to reign in development to keep Kaua`i, Kaua`i.
Councilmember-Elect Chock has decades of true community service under his belt.
An example is serving as Rescue Specialist with our Kaua`i Fire Department,
Councilmember-Elect Chock was injured on the job in the rescue of a woman on the
Na Pali Coast where the helicopter crashed into Mount Wai`ale`ale due to an oil leak.
He broke his back and ruptured three (3) disks in his spinal cord as a results of the
accident. Parallel to John Fitzgerald Kennedy (JFK) and the PT-109 collision, which
contributed to JFK's long-term back problems. This is the microcosm of Kaua`i that
is a macrocosm to JFK. Councilmember-Elect Chock continues to serve our island in
countless myriad manners focusing mainly on our future, our youth, empowering
them with great positivity, walking the walk. Councilmember-Elect Chock has served
on numerous boards, commissions, past and present. I first met Councilmember-
Elect Chock in 2004 after reading a pamphlet somewhere to help children whose
parents were incarcerated. I called Kukui Malama and I began working in that
volunteer program. I was impressed with Councilmember-Elect Chock's
demonstrativeness of a true kanaka. Councilmember-Elect Chock is pure and simple,
pono. I have been blessed to work at Kapa'a High School for fourteen (14)
years. A number of years ago, I was in a Social Studies class when Councilmember-
Elect Chock and his Kupu A`e (Leadership Kaua`i Program) came into the classroom.
It emboldened and encouraged the students with a superb structure.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 9 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Ms. Bator: Clearly, evidence and facts reveal the
community servant that Councilmember-Elect Chock exemplifies. He expresses his
love for Kaua`i and its people without any self-serving agenda promoting bringing
people together for shared solutions rather than be divided through divisiveness.
Mahalo for correct thinking and decision-making. It will truly show if the fox is
watching the henhouse...
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Ms. Bator: ...the fox guarding the henhouse, large
landowners, multinational corporations, or if the will of consciousness and aloha aina
prevails. Sorry to bother you. I am just a haole, of course. I have been blessed to be
in Hawai`i nei for forty-five (45) years. Yes, I am a haole. Here it is. You can have
my paperwork. Thank you very much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Marj Dente, followed by
Pamela Burrell.
MARJ DENTE: I am Marj Dente. I am a resident and
property owner since 1989 in the Olohena ahupua a. Thank you for taking my
testimony, and thank you to the new faces and sort of a new face with
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i on this Council. I assume from today's agenda that you
will be discussing who will become the Council Chair for the next two (2) years, that
member who sets the agenda for the Council's meetings. Since I voted for
Councilmember-Elect Chock who handedly received the most votes in the
November 6th Election, I expect him to represent me and all of Kaua`i's citizens as the
next Council Chair and not just special interest groups. However, it has come to my
attention that Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro is lobbying to become Council Chair.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro is from a heritage Kaua`i family. No disrespect to
your family, sir, but he is and you are, Special Projects Manager for Grove Farm.
Since this business has considerable landholdings of thirty-eight thousand (38,000)
acres and has the power to apply for zoning changes of any or all of these acres that
can affect land, water, and development issues. It is my opinion that
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro, you sir, have a serious conflict of interest. You
would be required to recuse yourself from any official action of the considerable
amount of these kinds of issues that continually come before this Council. That said,
the Council Vice Chair would have to take the seat as Council Chair. I understand
you sir, Councilmember-Elect Kagawa, is to be nominated for that position. What?
A man who leaves the room during meetings whenever public testimonies are being
given, or is noticeably seen not paying any attention to Council business.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: County Clerk, is this the kind of Council
Meeting that we are going to have because I can call a bunch of my people...
Ms. Dente: Excuse me, I have the floor.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: ...who can do the same thing?
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 10 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Ms. Dente: I have the floor, sir. I have the floor.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: They cannot applaud when you are talking.
Sorry. That is not...
Ms. Dente: Then tell the audience that. I have the floor.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: I am telling them.
Ms. Dente: I will say what I just said. A man who leaves
the room during meetings whenever public testimonies are being given or is
noticeably seen not paying any attention to Council business because you are
totally...
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Your time is up.
Ms. Dente: ...occupied with your iPhone. So, I am
concluding that I highly recommend and approve Councilmember-Elect Chock to
become the Council Chair, a member with a history and background of the highest
integrity. I do want to speak to an article...
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Your time is up.
Ms. Dente: ...well, alright.
Mr. Sato: You can submit your written testimony.
Ms. Dente: What?
Mr. Sato: You can submit it in writing.
Ms. Dente: Okay. You all should read Allan Parachini's
article in yesterday's paper. It says it is...
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Can we get a recess?
Ms. Dente: ...up to the public will...
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Jade, can we get a recess?
Ms. Dente: ...to determine what happens next. Thank
you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I have a request.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 11 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: The rules are that they speak for
three (3) minutes, the light turns green when you start, it turns yellow when you have
thirty (30) seconds, and it turns red when the speaker is to stop. I would just hope
that we can all respect the light and respect the rules so that we can move forward
with this meeting. Also, I know people are applauding and this and that, but again,
if we can just be neutral. There are people with differing views, so just be respectful
of everyone's view.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Pamela Burrell, followed
by Mark Perriello.
PAMELA BURRELL: First of all, congratulations,
Councilmembers-Elect. I had written testimony on behalf of the Kaua`i Women's
Caucus earlier this month. I will not reiterate my ethical concerns to you, but I do
want to mention and are recommending of Councilmember-Elect Chock as Council
Chair candidate that we never did speak with him about his idea or even if we knew
if he would want to take on the responsibility of Council Chair. The Kaua`i Women's
Caucus just feels that he is natural for that position because the Council Chair needs
to move a formerly divided Council into one that actually works well together where
viable solutions to our issues are realized through collaboration and most of all,
someone that invites dialogue with the community. That is all that I have to say.
Thank you for your time.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Mark, followed by John Moore.
MARK PERRIELLO: Good afternoon. My name is Mark Perriello.
I am representing the Kaua`i Chamber of Commerce today. I have nothing but good
things to say about the folks who are sitting on the other side of this bench from me.
I think that you all need to be congratulated for a job well-done in getting your seats.
My thing that I really hope to impart with you all is that you rise above some of the
fray that has been out there is the news, the coconut wireless, and what have you.
Kaua`i is a small island and we all need to figure out ways to work together and
succeed together. Some of the divisiveness that is happening around this Council
Chair debate is quite frankly, ugly and is being motivated by people that are not even
in this room that do not have the wherewithal to show up to actually have these
discussions in person. Councilmember-Elect Chock, I know you very well through my
time at Leadership Kaua`i. I think very highly of you. Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro, I think very highly of you as well. We have been really close partners at
the Kaua`i Chamber of Commerce. The thing that I would say is that as you are
considering this, to say that one person is defined by their company, I think, is
ridiculous. To say that someone who came in second with just three hundred (300)
votes shy of Councilmember-Elect Chock is somehow bold and more to a company
than he is to his constituents and the thousands and thousands of people who elected
him, is just ridiculous. I know him very well. I think he is very passionate about this
island, the future of the island, and could do a good job as Council Chair if that is who
you decide to place as Council Chair. But I am not up here to speak negatively about
anyone at all. I do feel like it is important to defend someone when they are being
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 12 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
attacked very viciously in the media and in the public eye when I know this person
to be a very outstanding person and someone who I think can usher this community
and this Council for the next few years. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: John Moore.
JOHN MOORE: My name is John Moore. I am with the
Community Coalition of Kaua`i. Welcome, new members. We have all worked
together. The people of Kauai will work with all of you no matter which decisions or
choices you make because like you, we all love Kaua`i and we are committed to Kaua`i.
We promise to do our best, that you understand what we set out to do when we
brought together all of the neighborhood associations of the island of Kaua`i. We
shared our concerns of what came from all of the different neighborhood associations,
concerns about transportation and that elected officials were not listening to them
enough, and that is normal thing no matter who is elected is going to feel. We hope
that as you go forward, that you will listen to all of the neighborhood associations,
the Kauai Women's Caucus, the Kaua`i Chamber of Commerce, and the Community
Coalition of Kaua`i, and that you will respect that we have done lots of homework as
most of you know that we were intimately involved in the General Plan for many
years as volunteers and worked with that step. We hope that we can continue to work
with the new Planning Department and Planning Commission as well as the Mayor
and the County Council. I hope that you will keep open minds and we know that you
have to make tough decision because there are always tradeoffs every day. People
will get emotional and people within our group will get emotional even in our own
meetings, but that is because they really care about the island. Please know that we
will work together with you, we hope that you will keep an open mind, and we hope
you make the best decisions about the future of Kaua`i. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Larry Lasota, followed by Guy Miller.
LARRY LASOTA: Good afternoon and congratulations to all of
you on being elected again. Thank you for having an open meeting like this here
today. The only thing I would like to address is the positon of Council Chair.
Traditionally, it seems like it has always gone to the one who has gotten the highest
votes and I believe it should stay in that situation. At least at this time, there seems
to be much outpouring toward Councilmember-Elect Chock and I agree with it
because I think he is an outstanding person. I know Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro.
I have no major complaints except for one (1) thing. I have one (1) issue and this has
been my decider for why I would like Councilmember-Elect Chock to be the Council
Chair as opposed to Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro. That goes back to the
Wednesday prior to the Primary Election when George Costa testified about the grant
that was available for a climate change study for Kaua`i. Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro voted it down and Councilmember-Elect Chock voted for it. I think voting
down getting money for the County to do something that is very critical. I spent a lot
of time working in the Emergency Operations Center as the Government Liaison for
the American Red Cross. Half of the emergency things we deal with has to do with
climate change and that grant would have given us great steps forward and much
information to help us in what we need to do. By turning that down, I think it is a
travesty. I support Councilmember-Elect Chock because he stood behind that and
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 13 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
thought it was an ideal thing that we needed. I am sorry that we did not get it because
he was outvoted 3:4. Again, I believe that the person who got the highest amount of
votes in this election should be the County Council Chair. Congratulations again, to
all of you. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Guy Miller, followed by Anne Thurston.
GUY MILLER: Hi, good afternoon. My name is Guy Miller.
First of all, congratulations to all of you for getting elected to the County Council this
year. I am here for the Council Chair like many other people here today. I feel very
strongly that Councilmember-Elect Chock would make a great Council Chair for this.
I have worked with him for a year during Leadership Kaua`i, and not only do I feel
like he has the personal qualities to make a great Council Chair, but also from what
I understand, it is precedent for the person with the most votes to become the Chair
of the Council. I do not feel that it is acceptable to break with precedent because it is
someone who was not expected to get the most votes and has not in the past. I just
wanted to give my support to Councilmember-Elect Chock for the position of Council
Chair. I feel like the people have spoken by giving him the most votes and that
precedent should be kept as well as him being a person that I have learned things
from that I still keep to this day as far as organization, leadership, and other personal
skills. I use it when I work with people in my own field. That is all. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: You are a man now, Guy. Wow.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Anne Thurston.
ANNE THURSTON: Thank you. Anne Thurston. I am really
grateful to every one of you who is willing to serve at such a challenging time for this
island. The pressures of climate, population growth, and infrastructure are becoming
more substantial every day. We really do need a united Council and the Council
needs our support. As was said, you have it. At the same time, I am very clear with
myself that the issue of conflict of interest is a major one that is likely to divide us.
We are very fortunate that we have a County Charter and we have the Sunshine Law
that mandates that the Council must operate transparently beyond special interests.
We really need to ensure that these rules are applied. The Council should have as its
sole purpose, the interest of the people of Kauai and not the interest of any private
corporation. I really think it would be very hard if we have a County Council Chair
who is working for a major landowner on the island to protect and preserve the
Charter and the transparency of its operations. It would really be necessary to recuse
yourself continuously, and I do not think we would get much done if that went on. If
we can avoid this conflict, we will be able to promote public trust in government and
help to ensure that we can move forward collaboratively in the decision-making
process. We need a County Council Chair who takes a sincere interest in allowing
the public, not a corporate interest, to make ample input and a Council Chair that
will take their views into account. Let us work together to achieve this. It is vital for
all of us. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Bridget Hammerquist.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 14 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
BRIDGET HAMMERQUIST: Good afternoon. My name is Bridget
Hammerquist. I am a resident of KOloa. My home has been on Kaua`i for a long time.
I care very much about the community and I applaud you all for being willing to serve
our community. I think each and every one of you have a tough job and I would never
want anything that I have said or written to suggest that it is anything other than
tough. I do suggest, however, that in this time where you are taking in information,
I would second what Anne Thurston had to say, and that is that we need a
collaborative County Council. We need someone that can bring the Council together.
There were discussions being had after the election between individuals that were
sitting as Councilmembers. They were having discussions, which would be
considered sequential discussions, between people that were already sworn into
office. It was not an issue as much for people that were not yet sworn. But the rumor
mill flies. We are a small island. It was made known early on that
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro wanted to the position, he wanted
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa to be the Council Vice Chair, and he wanted the post
even though Councilmember-Elect Chock had done better. Historically, I know we
have had Council Chairs chosen that did not get the most votes. So, I understand
that is not the issue. But I think that the divisiveness of a Council Chair that is the
single Project Manager identified, he is the only person identified on the Grove Farm
website, who owns thirty-eight thousand (38,000) acres of Kaua`i, which is
approximately twenty-five percent (25%) of this island. It is a one hundred fifty-six
thousand (156,000) acre island. If you look back on July 18th in addition to what the
other gentleman testified about, I have seen Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro more
than once, but it is actually on film I know for sure on July 18th where he sat in the
seat as a Councilmember and spoke as a Grove Farm representative. I think that is
the real difficulty that is going to face him throughout this term. I think that is what
you are hearing from the public. I would just ask you all to take that into very serious
consideration when you vote. I do not think it is proper the way that people have
secured votes up until now without public input. I am glad you are finally asking for
public input. Thank you for your time.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Eileen Kechlioan.
EILEEN KECHLIOAN: Hi. I am Eileen Kechlioan and I would like to
congratulate you all. I like to see the new faces here. I am hoping that with this, we
will have a more balanced County Council because I know in the past that
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i has been able to stand his own ground and not
necessarily go with one side or the other. In the voting for the Council Chair, I am
hoping that Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i will once again, realize that he is here to
represent the people. This many people showed up only because they want
Councilmember-Elect Chock. They are very concerned about the conflict of interest.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro, go to July 18th and I think it is one (1) hour and—I
can get it for you, but it is where you get upset and start defending Grove Farm as if
you were Grove Farm sitting there not as a Councilmember. I would like to see a
Council Chair that does not have to recuse himself as often as Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro will have to recuse himself. If Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro gets it, he
will get to choose what goes onto the agenda and what does not. Now, that alone is
huge power. I think someone that is more open and more balanced. Also, all of the
times that I have watched the County Council, I have never seen Councilmember-
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 15 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Elect Chock lose it. I have always seen him come through with a calm voice and I
have always seen him try to keep everyone even-tempered. I would like to see
Councilmember-Elect Chock set the agenda. I would like to see Councilmember-Elect
Chock as the Council Chair, as would, I would say at least ninety-nine percent (99%)
of the people on this room. Thank you very much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Matt Bernabe, followed by Jill Lowery.
MATTHEW BERNABE: Matt Bernabe, for the record, although I do
not think there is a record today. Before I say what I came here to actually say, I
understood what Mauna Kea was saying. I understood why we have the meeting.
Although it is still past practice and there is no mechanism to put it into the future
with best practice and oversight, maybe that should be on the agenda for the next
two (2) years, to get this process legalized in such a way that we do not have such a
discord between the public. With that said, rumors—everyone talks on Kaua`i. I did
not hear about Councilmember-Elect Kagawa vying for Council Vice Chair. That is
a different one. I knew that the two (2) here were interested in being Council Chair.
I voted for both of these gentlemen as well as a few of you other ones on this—I am
not going to tell you folks, but you folks know. I voted for you folks. You folks all
know who. Anyway, I am supporting Councilmember-Elect Chock as well, for a two-
pronged reason. The first is, he outright got the votes and he deserves that position—
outright deserves the position. I know everyone can say that they can bring their
supporters, no offense Councilmember-Elect Kagawa, but if we brought every
supporter, which was the day of the election, that is the teller to me. Second, I love
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro. I voted for Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro. I
know he is trying to copy me in trying to get a baby, Filipino girl here. I do not have
a problem with his position at Grove Farm. In fact, when I have heard him talk about
Grove Farm, it is because they have asked him to shed light on some of the things. It
was never in a testimony aspect that he was testifying and talking with Grove Farm.
I have been here for many meetings. I can tell the difference. I do not distrust him
on that. But there is one (1) thing that I have to talk about, is where I want this
Council's focus to be with the Council Chair is when the gentleman talked about
global warming. We can get into the debate about the one hundred thousand
dollars ($100,000) and if it was worth it or not. But at the end of the day, that is
huge. I was sweating today and it is November. Listen, I want our Council to have
a little bit of that. We need the business people and all of the people to do their part.
But for these next two (2) years with the reports that are coming in even President
Trump's own people are trying to tell him that it is happening, I want an
environmentally conscious Council Chair. It is nothing against any other member.
That is just my opinion as someone who voted for the two (2) of you folks. That is my
opinion. I know it is only three hundred (300) votes difference, but I came here to
support Councilmember-Elect Chock on that. Council Vice Chair would obviously go
to Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro. If I could have my dream team, that is what
would happen. I did not expect this kind of drama today. I was getting very
concerned, I thought this was going to be sweet and easy.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Jill Lowry.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 16 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
JILL LOWRY: Jill Lowry. I do not really want to talk about
anything in the past. My focus is on the future. There are a lot of heavy issues on
our table; traffic, housing most especially, yes, global warming, and how prepared we
are for emergencies and hurricanes. There are so many things that I just want to be
a little bit more positive and focus on you folks doing your job and encouraging you to
engage the community more in committees or any other aspect so that we can feel
more a part of the process. I think there is a lot of talent on this island that maybe
does not get utilized. Congratulations to all of you. I am happy to see those that I
have voted for are sitting at the table. Without poking anyone in the eye, I think
sometimes it is hurtful when it feels like anyone on your side gets bored with what
someone here is saying and maybe does not pay attention. I do not think that is
intentional on your folks' side, but I would just maybe request that sometimes it is
intimidating to come up to this table and speak. I think for some people, they will
want to come up and speak because they do not feel like everyone is paying attention
or they will not say something right. The phone, hunger strike, or whatever may
come along, just remember that all of us back here—well, I will say that most of us
back here want to help you folks be the best that you can be. I wish all of you much
success and I do hope that you will reach out to us if you need anything.
Congratulations.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Robert Girald.
ROBERT GIRALD: Aloha Council-Elect. Congratulations to all of
you. I was rather disturbed to see this add in the paper by the Community Coalition
of Kaua`i. In short of naming Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro, to me, it is really a
disgrace in a sense that it is a slap in the face to the electorate, people who came out
and voted. We talk about voting, ask people to vote, they vote, and now the challenge
still seems to be going on. We talk about preserving this island so that our youth can
come back, live here, and work; housing; and all of these issues. He is a good example.
He left the island and went to school. He was born and raised here, left the island,
went to school, came back, and gets a job. Now, they are putting information basically
saying that he is going to be like a puppet for Grove Farm. I think that is really
unfair. I have known this man for a long time and I think that he can stand on his
own. We have a small community. We have a limited amount of major employers.
People that come back find jobs and they work. That does not mean that because he
works for a particular company that he is going to be a puppet. I do not see that. I
think it is wrong to come here and say, "Well, you cannot be the Council Chair." I
think if we look at the record, the last three (3) Council Chairs were not the highest
vote getters. It is not a historical thing that it is the highest vote getters. You go
check the record. I am looking at if we talk about keiki o ka aina, then let us look at
what we have here. These are all—basically except for Councilmember-Elect
Cowden, she is the only one that is not a keiki o ka ■ ina. I think it is wrong for this
kind of thing, because what this does is it fragments the community. I went on the
website. I cannot even find out who the leaders are in the coalition. To me, this kind
of advertisement is rubbish because all it does is it fragments the community. We do
not need that here. We want aloha. Thank you.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 17 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. I remembered
my middle point, which was maybe you could have evening sessions occasionally or
something so the working people could be represented. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Gabriela Taylor.
GABRIELA TAYLOR: I have been actively coming to the Council
Meetings for the General Plan Update. I have lived here for forty-five (45) years. I
love Kaua`i and I want to see the best happen here. I think the points that people
have already made in favor of Councilmember-Elect Chock are the same ones that I
would make. I would also say the number of votes that he got and the fact that he
voted to get the climate change study. He has a progressive approach that he can
look at things in a bigger-picture and that is what we need. We need Councilmembers
who are not just looking at okay, what is happening next month or next year? But
what about ten (10) years or twenty (20) years down the line? We are worried about
the keiki who leave the island because they cannot survive here. We are worried
about the lack of housing, traffic, and so forth and so on. It is only going to get worse
unless we have Councilmembers that have that broader view and can see the writing
on the wall, which has been on there for a long time about climate change, and it is
happening here right now. I am for Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock has a progressive open-minded approach and he
understands how to look ahead and plan for the future, the local families, and the
keiki. I will not be here when it really gets bad with climate change. I am
seventy-eight (78) years old, but I feel for the local people, I love the local people, I
love the Hawaiians, I love the culture here. I would like to think that we have a
forward-thinking Council Chair and that would be Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Thank you very much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one (1) last registered speaker, Daryl
Kaneshiro.
DARYL KANESHIRO: Congratulations to each and every one of you.
I really take off my hat, even though I do not have my cowboy hat on today, to each
and every one of you because I know how hard it is to run in an election. I just had a
thought by listening to some of the speakers today. I served on the County Council
for almost eleven (11) years and you all know that. I retired in 2010, but there is a
misunderstanding that the highest vote getter has always been elected as the Council
Chair. I have never seen that in the elven (11) years that I served as a
Councilmember. We had a lot of great Chairmans whether they were number one,
number two, number three, number six, or number seven. I am just trying to clear
things up here for those of you who have not been here as long as I have been living
here and born on this island. What really bothered me—did I say my name? Daryl
Kaneshiro. I am sorry about that. What really bothers me a lot was that yesterday
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro and I were working the ranch. Most of you know
that we run about one thousand (1,000) sheep, we work hard every day, and I work
every single day whether it is Sunday, Monday, Christmas Day, or whatever it is. I
do that. Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro was out there working with me yesterday.
I got home pretty late. It was almost dark. I went over to my mom's house, my mom
called me and said, "Come over and have dinner, just us." I was tired from working
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 18 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
sheep from early in the morning and went home. My mom brought a newspaper to
me. I do not really read The Garden Island Newspaper to tell you the truth, because
there are a lot of things that Mr. Hooser writes that I do not really believe in. But
that is okay. It is a different matter. Anyway, there was an advertisement. My mom
came out to me and said, "Daryl, this is terrible." I said, "What is terrible, mom?"
"This advertisement." I said, "What advertisement?" I read the advertisement. I
said, "Mom, so what? Why is it terrible? It is about Grove Farm. I do not see
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro's name mentioned." But she said, "But does
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro work for Grove Farm?" I said, "Yes, he does." She
said, "Well, this is very terrible because no one really knows the real
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro like I do." I am the father of Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro and I believe he will follow and always remember the traditions and
morals of what I taught him to do, the tradition of being and loving Kaua`i, fishing,
and hunting. He rode up to Wai`alae with me when he was seven (7) years old on a
mule to hunt and enjoy this environment. I gave him my heart and soul to do that
because this is what I love about the island the most. I love Kaua`i, the beauty, the
people, and the resources that we have and I brought my son up to do that also. I
always believed that, and I am sorry. I am going to end it right here. I see the light
blinking. I have been here before. He has a way to do it and whatever decision is
made will be made for the people of Kaua`i, Ni`ihau, and for each and every one of you
no matter what. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have an additional speaker, Joan Heller.
JOAN HELLER: Good afternoon. Congratulations. The reason
I wanted to speak up is because when the gentleman talked about aloha, I just want
to put it out there that aloha is not something that can be commoditized, at least for
me. I know on Kaua`i we still have a chance because it is small rural place and we
are around nature more than urban areas whether it is on different continents, we
have a lot of nature. I feel that I would like us to continue the aloha spirit, never
forgetting though, that we do have a host culture, we have the kanaka, they have
been here, and they have been able to manage the island. Somehow, they are not
within this western structure of government, but they are still here. I just feel that—
please remember that the aloha spirit is not about money. That is my biggest thing.
I do not want to make divisions, but I just know it is not about money. The second
thing in regards to the person who gets the highest votes, I always thought in the
past, since I do not know all of the rules and regulations, I did understand that it was
by majority votes. But I understand that it was not always done that way, but
whoever did not get the most votes became the Council Chair, it was because there
was a mutual consensus in regards to the other person. It was not done, I thought,
by votes. I thought it was between mutual respect with the Councilmembers and that
there was a mutual agreement to have that person in that seat. But now that this is
all happening, I am glad I am here because I am trying to learn to become a little bit
more of an active and vocal resident. That is all that I have to say. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have no additional registered speakers.
There being no further testimony, the meeting proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 19 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next item for discussion would be the
appointment of the Presiding Officer Pro Tern for the Organizational Meeting.
ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION.
Members elected to the Kaua`i County Council for the term commencing
December 3, 2018 will conduct a meeting to discuss their Organizational Structure
for the upcoming 2018-2020 Council term. Items to be discussed are:
• Appointment of the Presiding Officer Pro Tern for the Organizational
Meeting.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Is there a motion for the Presiding Officer Pro
Tern?
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i moved to nominate Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro as the Presiding Officer Pro Tern for the Organizational Meeting,
seconded by Councilmember-Elect Kagawa.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Is there any discussion? Let us call the roll.
The motion to nominate Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro as the Presiding
Officer Pro Tern for the Organizational Meeting was then put, and carried by
the following vote:
FOR MOTION: Brun, Evslin, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kuali`i TOTAL– 5,
AGAINST MOTION: Chock, Cowden TOTAL– 2,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion carries. The Presiding Officer Pro
Tern for this meeting is Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Did you want to switch chairs now?
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: No. It is only Pro Tern. With that, you
folks have heard it once already and I will say it again. This meeting is to make the
Council more efficient. This meeting is to have us hash-out the Council Chair,
Council Vice Chair, Committees, Rules, and all of that now so that when we go to
Inauguration, everything runs smoothly. We know where everyone stands. We are
going to take votes on things so we know that something is going to pass or not pass
so that when we go to Inauguration, we are not fighting on it, and we are not at a
deadlock. There is a schedule there and so we do not hold up that schedule. We do
everything right here. With that, I think the first matter—are we taking public
testimony on each item?
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 20 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: No.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have taken testimony already, so we can
move towards the discussion.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Okay.
• Discussion of the selection of the Council Chair and the Council Vice Chair
for the 2018-2020 Council term.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i moved to nominate Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro as the Council Chair for the 2018-2020 Council term, seconded by
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Is there any discussion?
Councilmember-Elect Cowden.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Thank you. I respect Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro's knowledge with the Budget and finance. I appreciate all that you
understand about the details of development and land use. I see all of those skillsets
as being really valuable to the Council. I think we have heard from the
twenty-nine (29) letters that we received and this room, at least, that there is concern.
I share the concern that it seems that you should be parallel to leadership. I would
have no problem with you as Council Vice Chair, but I also believe that having
Councilmember-Elect Chock as Council Chair is the most comfortable place for me. I
am happy to work with whoever is decided by the voters in terms of who are my fellow
Councilmembers as we work this through, but with all due respect, I look forward to
working with you, but I cannot vote for you in that position.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any other comments,
discussion, or questions? Councilmember-Elect Evslin.
Councilmember-Elect Evslin: First off, I am excited to work with you folks
this year. You folks have all done great things as Councilmembers and I am excited
to see what we can do collectively as a body. I will admit that I have been wary about
this first meeting. I think as we have seen tonight and I have seen over the years,
there is a lot of divisiveness on our island. There is a divide. My own personal
philosophy is always to fight hard on policy, not on people. In this meeting tonight,
it is unavoidable. It is a meeting about people as we establish our leadership here
tonight. I guess for once, I cannot avoid that fight over people. For me going forward,
I think that the best way to bring the community together to continue to build trust
in this institution and at least to move beyond the perceived divisiveness within this
body, would be to have Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro and Councilmember-Elect
Chock as our leadership team here. For the vote right now, I am going to vote "aye"
on Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro as our Council Chair, but I strongly support with
that vote, Councilmember-Elect Chock as our Council Vice Chair. I think between
the two (2) of them, probably almost every single person on the island voted for
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 21 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
one (1) of them, except for me, I only voted for myself. But I think between the two
of you, you really do represent the island. You folks have a really great opportunity
to move us forward. The reason I am going to vote for Councilmember-Elect
Kaneshiro at this moment is, I think that he has the support currently, of the majority
of the Council. I think you can do a really good job of keeping us all in line and
keeping us moving forward. You have shown yourself to be an independent thinker.
The reason I think that Councilmember-Elect Chock should be Council Vice Chair is
because he is a good listener. He has shown himself to be a good leader and again,
because you folks have the support of the island behind you folks. I just want to put
that out there. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Thank you. Anyone else?
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: I just want to say that I am honored to
nominate you and I am glad that you are willing to serve. I hope that you have the
votes. I want to recognize and thank former Councilmember Daryl Kaneshiro for
being here today. I think that is really something when a father shows up for his son.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Thank you. Let me just start by first,
thanking everyone for coming here because apparently according to some testimony,
most of them are here for me and in support of what they would like to see happen
for the Chairmanship. This is very complex situation, as you can tell, situation when
it comes to politics. This is where foundations are created for the next two (2) years.
I know the system that we are a part of automatically drives people against each
other. It is set up that way just based on perspective. While I am very privileged to
call Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro my friend and have had a great time working
with him side-by-side on the Council, this is the reality of what our system has
created. That being said, it has always been my intention although maybe not
seemingly in practice, but it has always been my intention for a couple of things.
Those goals have been to create solidarity, cohesiveness, fairness, and equality. I am
not guilty of orchestrating that advertisement that came out or the division that we
have seen in the last week around this subject matter. I am guilty of merely listening
and trying to accomplish what I set out to come here to do, which is to practice
leadership and practice the behavior of leadership. I will just really quickly let you
folks know what I went through because it is true what Mauna Kea said. We have
had this process at least since I have been here, five (5) years, the same process where
we have this opportunity before we are elected, to talk about what that leadership
could be like. I reached out pretty early to Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro to have
that conversation. Within that conversation, we both understood that we had interest
in leading as the Chairman. It really comes down to votes, as you folks know now. It
is not about who is the highest vote getter. In fact, I think if you do look at the records,
that it does not matter, that traditionally, it is really about who can get the votes.
One of my interests in this term was to see that because I have always been here
where there is a power block. I have always been here where there is a little bit of
division no matter what side of it is. To try and bring this group together is really
what I have always wanted to see happen. I just put it out there. I said, "Hey, if I
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 22 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
can get the votes, I will go for it." As you folks know and you can see already because
we did one (1) vote already, that the swing vote here is with Councilmember-Elect
Kuali`i. I totally respect where his decision lies. That is where it lies. I also respect
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro because he is going to get my one hundred
percent (100%) support in the end moving forward. That is what is important for this
body, for us to move forward. Every year, this part gets really difficult because it sets
the precedent. I do not want it to set a precedent, but as you can see, you folks all
come here and I feel almost obligated to represent what you folks want and that is
why I vote the way I do because I know that is what you folks want as well as other
people. That is not going to happen based on the votes. I hope that is obvious to all
of you who have showed up. That being said, it is still important to hear what your
voice has to say. It is still important for you folks to show up. This is the first time
ever, that we have had that happen. My hope is that we all get more educated on
what happens and how this moves forward. That being said, I did go back to the table
and I said, "Hey, Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro, will you help me become Council
Vice Chair and that way, it shows some solidarity and cohesiveness?" That is just
not the way it is going to lay out as well. Hold on. It is about votes and that is the
way it is forming up. I just wanted to say, regardless of the votes and how they show
up today at this table, you can be assured Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro and
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa, that I will do everything in my power to make sure
that what we do is the best work in these next two (2) years and try to bring this
Council together. That being said, let us get through this and let us move on. Thank
you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Let me say something. There was a lot
of testimony. I think everyone has a fair say at who they want and what they want.
Today just shows what it comes down to is, everyone here at the table has the same
amount of power and votes. The rules have always been for the Council Chair and
Council Vice Chair, that it is up to the majority at the Council table. Whether you
came in first or seventh, everyone has the same amount of power here at the table.
As far as all of these allegations, I think for me, I wear many hats. I work for Grove
Farm. Yes, that is one (1) hat I wear. I help my dad on the ranch, that is another
hat I wear. At home with my wife, I have to wear a pretty big political hat there and
manage to keep my home happy. I think there is a community service aspect that I
also have a hat in. It is a matter of being able to hold these different hats and keep
a clear vision. I think no one can say that I have come here and did not think about
Kaua`i on every single vote. When I am at the County Council, my vote is for Kaua`i.
What do I think is best for Kauai? That is the way I vote. People say, "Oh,
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro has Grove Farm pushing him." Grove Farm has
never pushed me to do anything. If you look at the record, I probably recused myself
a handful of times. We had the South Kaua`i Plan and the Lihu`e Community Plan,
which I went to the Board of Ethics for both and they said, "You need to recuse," and
I recused myself. Then, probably the only other major decision we had was when
Grove Farm gave land to the County for the Adolescent Treatment Facility, so
because it is dealing directly with Grove Farm, I recused myself from that. As the
Council Chair, I think I have less of a vote than if I am on the Committee. Committee
is typically where work gets done. The Council Chair is usually an ex-officio member
on every Committee. The Council Chair has zero (0) votes in Committee. Committee
is where the work gets done, so a lot of people are saying, "Oh, he has the power to do
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 23 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
this and that," no. We are made up of a body of seven (7). I think if we can get past
this, I did take a crack at how we set up the Committees and everything, and you will
see that is it extremely fair. I tried to make is as fair as possible. I tried to have
everyone on a Committee that they wanted, everyone had one (1) Committee Chair
position, one (1) Committee Vice Chair positon, and everyone had an ex-officio
member, which unfortunately, based on the number of Councilmembers and
Committees that we have, that is the only way to do it to make it fair. Whether people
want to move around, they can try, but you will see really quickly that it is very
difficult to move one (1) person and still keep everything fair. At the end of this whole
thing, as the Council Chair, my job is to—for me, I want to see the Council move
forward. This whole divide, putting advertisements in the newspaper, and trying to
be divisive, I want it gone. I want us to work together. I think it is a great opportunity
for the entire Council to work together. I think everyone has said that the North
Shore has not had a voice. I think the North Shore has a voice now. I think it is a
positive thing to have Councilmember-Elect Cowden here. I think she will do a good
job of actually getting the information out. I think a lot of times, the information at
this table does not get relayed correctly around the island. I think now, we at least
will have a fairer share of getting the information out and correct. Again, I hold many
hats. I am not going to come here pushing Grove Farm's agenda. Obviously, I have
been here four (4) years. We have not pushed anything. A lot of it is just
misinformation. It is an attack on my character. Again, my dad said last night that
he was going to come in. I had no clue what he was going to say. My grandma reading
the newspaper, that hurts. That hurts me a little because my grandma has watched
me grow. I lived one (1) house away from my grandma. I would walk over to my
grandma's on the weekends. Whenever I needed food, I could choose from my house
or my grandma's house. For her to see an attack like that, I just do not think it is
right. I think people should look at me, look at what I have done, what I represent,
and we move forward with that. If I make mistakes along the way, then yes, hold me
accountable for it. But a lot of the information that is coming out is just hearsay. My
goal is to get us through this meeting first and foremost, and then to move forward
cohesively as a Council. I think right now, we are the most lined up to be probably
the most functional government body out of the whole State. I think Kaua`i County
Council, the Administration, our State Representatives, and our Federal
Representatives probably have the biggest power to move things. That is what I want
to see in the future. I just want to see us do good things for the County. We have a
lot of issues that I think we should concentrate on. People can say, "Is he going to
hold agenda items?" No, I do not plan on holding any agenda item, but I do hope that
if we put an agenda item on, we are not attacking Grove Farm just to see if I am going
to hold it or not. I think we should look at what everyone wants to do collectively and
think about everyone here. Putting things out just to get a reaction is not going to
help the Council. It is going to have the Council fighting. I think we have way more
than enough things to concentrate on; housing, roads, and keeping the
Administration accountable. There are a lot of things for us to work on that is Council
business. That is how I want to see us moving forward. I am here to try and protect
the Council, too. I want us to move forward cohesively. I guess that is me defending
myself. Are there any other questions or comments? Councilmember-Elect Brun.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: Thank you. Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro
came up to me and asked me to consider him to be the Council Chair as that was the
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 24 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
position he was interested in holding. As far as Councilmember-Elect Chock, I had
no clue. Councilmember-Elect Chock never asked me. I found out when we were
getting ripped on Facebook and in our E-mails. Councilmember-Elect Chock never
talked to me. I had no clue he was interested from when I talked to him last, this
was maybe a year ago. He had no interest. We are getting ripped like we already
picked our sides, Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro asked, Councilmember-Elect
Kagawa asked. I said, "Councilmember-Elect Kagawa," and I even suggested to
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa, "Why do we not make Councilmember-Elect Chock
Council Vice Chair? He had the most votes. He did good with planning." He said,
"No, we talked about it and he never asked. He never said anything." I did not even
know if he wanted it. I committed to Councilmember-Elect Kagawa about a week
ago. "Yes, I will support you." I still did not know until we were getting ripped, then
I found out that Councilmember-Elect Chock really wanted the position, and I just
heard it today. Truthfully, I never heard it. I am sorry. Maybe we could have done
it a different way. I committed and I am going to stay with my commitment. Thank
you and that is my opinion going forward. I think Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro
would be a great leader and we just have to continue to work together. It has been
divided. I think we are going back to how it was four (4) years ago and I do not think
we should be like that. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Kagawa.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: I am battling through a cold. I would have
been more open to allowing Councilmember-Elect Chock to replace me as the Council
Vice Chair, but seeing these attacks, it just confirmed even more why I should be
beside Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro as his "wingman" helping him to deal with
the Chairmanship because you need loyalty and friendship. I provide that for
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro. I really believe that I am the best man for the job
in light of what this County and this Council has gone through. Do not forget that
the divisiveness started with Gary Hooser and Bill No. 2491. To point out now that
the Council is now divisive, a lot of you forgot how it started. I was on a majority of
a 4:3 Council back in that year during Bill No. 2491. Council Chair Furfaro, myself,
Nadine Nakamura, and Mel Rapozo. We were the majority of four (4). On the outside
were Councilmembers Yukimura, Hooser, and Bynum. Bill No. 2491 flipped it.
Council Chair Rapozo and I became 5:2. We were the two (2). Let us remember that
when we attack, let us remember the facts and truth. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any further comments? Let
me say this, my hope is that we get everything out on the floor today, here. Say what
we need to say, take our straw vote and then we know where everyone stands as we
go to Inauguration. Typically, we try to say, "Let us hold our comments and let us
hold our fighting at Inauguration." We know this is the time to just get it all out. I
do not want to see us fighting at Inauguration. This is our opportunity to get out how
we are feeling etc. The intent is we say our piece here, take a straw vote, know where
the votes are going, and when we get to Inauguration, we can vote anyway, but let us
not have us fighting there. That is my intent. We show everyone that no matter how
the votes turn out, we are willing to move forward and are going to be a good cohesive
Council moving forward. That is my hope.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 25 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: I might as well defend myself, too.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: I just wanted it to be very clear that every vote
I take comes from my own heart and from my own mind. My motivation is my love
for the people and for the island, period. I feel so disrespected when people are telling
me things like I am the "swing vote" or I am following things like that. I do not want
to make it so personal. I just want it to be clear that every vote I take, whether you
agree or disagree, it comes from my own heart and my own mind with the motivation
and the love that I have for my island and for my people, which is everyone that lives
here. If you live here and you love this place, we are here to work for you. I just can
do the best that I can. Some decisions are political, but keep in mind that when we
are sitting here and there may be thirty (30) or forty (40) people in the room, you are
not the only people we represent. I have phone calls, E-mails, and people stopping
me all the time. Everyone matters to me, not just who is in front of me at the moment.
My decisions are not easy. It is very deep, thoughtful, and comes from a caring place,
period.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Is there any further discussion from
the Members? We will be doing a straw vote on the Council Chair position right now.
Are there any further comments? If not, we will take a roll call vote.
The motion to nominate Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro as the Council Chair
for the 2018-2020 Council term was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR MOTION: Brun, Chock, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6*,
AGAINST MOTION: Cowden TOTAL — 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Chock was noted as silent, but shall be recorded as an affirmative for
the motion).
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion passes.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: It is a straw vote, so it is not concrete.
The actual vote for the nomination will be at the Inauguration. Again, this meeting
is to get the consensus on where we are so we are not fighting or questioning who the
Council Chair or the Council Vice Chair is going to be. It is help make the
Inauguration meeting run smoothly. Yes. Before Inauguration, we will go through
the same process, hopefully without the fighting. We will decide everything here.
The vote was 6:1. Moving on. Do we have a nominations for the position of Council
Vice Chair? Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 26 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i moved to nominate Councilmember-Elect
Kagawa as the Council Vice Chair for the 2018-2020 Council term, seconded
by Councilmember-Elect Brun.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: It has been moved and seconded. Are
there any questions or discussion on this? Councilmember-Elect Cowden.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: I would like to say what I like about
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa where I find that we have some agreement. I
definitely share your interest in the Budget, finances, and how important it is for us
to be really conscious of how we spend our money. The other thing I would like to say
is that where I find I have quite a bit of alignment with Councilmember-Elect Kagawa
is a lot of his core motivation, I believe, is the same as my core motivation and that
is, that we take care of our children growing up. We both have worked as educators.
When I see things even when I do not agree with him on the choice, I know what his
core movement seems to be and that is that as people grow up here, that they can
have a home, a dignified life, a good job, stay out of jail, and stay off drugs. When you
see me not in agreement on some core things like leadership positions, it does not
mean that we are not going to be able to work really effectively together because I
think people would be surprised at how many areas that we have in alignment. I am
still wishing it was Councilmember-Elect Chock. I hear Councilmember-Elect Chock
is not even volunteering for that, so I am accepting where we are at and I respect you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Anyone else? Councilmember-Elect
Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Just to clarify for the people, if that is
necessary. I have every interest as I said in my statement previously, to lead. I am
happy to put my name in the hat. There is a nomination on the floor on the way that
would work and we will vote on that. If that nomination passes, then we know where
the votes sit. That is why we go through this deliberation to find out where people
are. It is not that I do not have an interest, because I do and have.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Evslin.
Councilmember-Elect Evslin: I said it when I was speaking earlier, but I
just want to reiterate it again. Councilmember-Elect Kagawa is a passionate fighter.
We need a lot of passionate fighters here and I appreciate your voice on a lot of things.
I will be voting "no" on this because of my support for Councilmember-Elect Chock
and my belief that I think he would be able to be a really good bridge for this Council
and be able to, as I said in the beginning, be able to make sure that for the next two (2)
years, move through divisiveness and that we are able to then fight about policy and
not about people. Councilmember-Elect Kagawa, I am sure you are going to get it. I
look forward to supporting you as we go forward. However, I cannot support the vote
for you today for the reasons that I previously stated.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions or
comments? If not, we will take a straw roll call vote.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 27 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
The motion to nominate Councilmember-Elect Kagawa as the Council Vice
Chair for the 2018-2020 Council term was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR MOTION: Brun, Kagawa, Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL– 4,
AGAINST MOTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin TOTAL – 3,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion passes, 4:3.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: 4:3. With that, I am going to ask for a
short recess. I am comfortable in the seats we are at, but should we—we can decide
on seats later? Let us just stay in the seats we are at. After this meeting, we will
decided on who sits where, but I am fine where we are at.
• Discussion of the standing Committees of the Council, the Committee
Chairs, the Committee Vice Chairs, and the Committee Members for the
2018-2020 Council term.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I did prepare a draft. I took my best
crack at it. As I mentioned earlier, I have heard and know where a lot everyone's
passion is. The problem is if we could, we would put everyone on every single
Committee, but that is not the way it works. We usually have two (2) ex-officio
members on every Committee. The ex-officio member still participates. They just do
not have a vote in the Committee. The ex-officio member can ask questions. If they
wanted to propose bills in that Committee, they can talk to the Committee Chair and
have someone present it. They just do not have a vote in that Committee. They do
have a vote when it comes to the full Council. Everyone gets to participate in pretty
much every single discussion or decision we have. With that, I guess we will pass
around or put up on the screen the draft Committees. Let me say this in the
beginning, I think everyone has a Committee Chair, Committee Vice Chair, and an
ex-officio member on one (1) Committee. We did move the Committee around a little
bit tying to accommodate everyone based on their...
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Can you blow it up?
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I did try to accommodate everyone
based on their interests. I know it is hard. I know everyone wants to be on Housing.
I know everyone wants to be on the hot topics; transportation and those things. It is
difficult to move someone around and keep it equal. What I did was try to make it as
equal as possible. We did break up a few of the Committees to make is a little more
equal. The first Committee is Public Works & Veterans Services. Public Works is
not going to include parks and recreation, which it historically did. It is just the
Public Works & Veterans Services Committee. We have Councilmember-Elect
Kagawa as the Committee Chair, Councilmember-Elect Cowden as the Committee
Vice Chair, Councilmember-Elect Chock, Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i, and
Councilmember-Elect Evslin. Councilmember-Elect Brun and I are—I am going to
be an ex-officio member on every single Committee. Councilmember-Elect Brun, you
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 28 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
are an ex-officio on this one. Public Works includes roads, sewers—roads and sewers.
Water.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Water.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: We will go through the list. If anyone
has questions, we can address them at that time. I am telling you that if we try to
move it around, it gets pretty tricky trying to keep it equal with everyone, but we will
just see how it goes. Water is with Planning, which it has always been. We do not
usually have much water items come up because the Department of Water usually
deals with it. We do have informational meetings on water as well.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Yes.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: A big one is solid waste.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Yes, solid waste.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Yes, that is a big one.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Solid Waste is under Public Works. I felt like
it was a large task and could be split up to share some of the load amongst other
Councilmembers. I gave that up voluntarily.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Yes, so that is a big one. Next, we have
Parks & Recreation / Transportation Committee. We have Councilmember-Elect
Brun as the Committee Chair, Councilmember-Elect Kagawa as the Committee Vice
Chair, Councilmember-Elect Cowden, Councilmember-Elect Evslin, and
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i. Councilmember-Elect Chock and I are both the
ex-officio members. The Parks & Recreation/Transportation Committee includes all
matters pertaining to parks, beaches, recreational areas, stadiums, neighborhood
centers, the Kauai War Memorial Convention Hall and the services provided by all
recreational facilities, Wailua Golf Course, and any recreational programs. It also
includes public transportation and legal issues relating to transportation, and
legislation relating to the Committee. Also,youth and elderly recreational programs.
Next, we have the Planning Committee, which Councilmember-Elect Chock has
always been the Committee Chair of. We have Councilmember-Elect Chock as the
Committee Chair, Committee Vice Chair Councilmember-Elect Evslin,
Councilmember-Elect Brun, Councilmember-Elect Kagawa, Councilmember-Elect
Kuali`i, and Councilmember-Elect Cowden and I are both ex-officios on it. I know
Planning is going to have some big things ahead of them. I think the Planning
Department is going to be working on the West Kaua`i Plan coming up in the next
two (2) years. That will be a big one for you folks to be working on. I think every
single Committee has big things to work on. Solid Waste is a huge thing.
Transportation is a huge thing. I think pretty much every single Committee we have,
there are big items that we all know we can work on. The next one is the Housing &
Intergovernmental Relations Committee. We have Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i as
the Committee Chair, Councilmember-Elect Chock as the Committee Vice Chair,
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 29 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Brun, Councilmember-Elect Cowden, and
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa. Councilmember-Elect Evslin and I are the ex-officios
on that one. Then, we have the Public Safety & Human Services Committee.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden is the Committee Chair, Councilmember-Elect Brun is
the Committee Vice Chair, then we have Councilmember-Elect Chock,
Councilmember-Elect Evslin, and Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa and I are the ex-officios on it. The Public Safety &
Human Services Committee includes Police, Fire, the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney, Civil Defense, Liquor Control, and any legal issues relating to public safety.
Human Services includes the Department of Human Resources (HR), the Agency on
Elderly Affairs, and legislation relating to that Committee. Next, we have Finance
& Economic Development. We have Councilmember-Elect Evslin as the Committee
Chair, Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i as the Committee Vice Chair,
Councilmember-Elect Chock, Councilmember-Elect Cowden, and
Councilmember-- Kagawa. Councilmember-Elect Brun, again, I guess it is unfair for
you. You have two (2) ex-officio positions. Councilmember-Elect Brun and I are the
ex-officios on it. I did break up Budget from Finance. I am going to be keeping the
Budget in the Committee of the Whole and it is just the Budget, just running the
Budget meetings. The Budget meetings are three (3) weeks straight of meetings
every single day. Anything else coming through regarding Finance is going to come
through you, Councilmember-Elect Evslin, and of course Economic Development. Do
you folks want me to read off every single thing on it? No? We can keep moving.
Then finally, Committee of the Whole is everyone. The Committee of the Whole has
the Council Chair as the Committee Chair, Council Vice Chair as the Committee Vice
Chair, and everyone is on the Committee of the Whole. When we do have Budget
meetings, it will be the entire Committee. Are there any questions? I tried to make
it as fair as possible. Councilmember-Elect Cowden.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: It is not a question. I was going to make a
comment. Are we ready for that?
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Yes, questions or comments.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: I want some comments. I am excited about
everything. I have all kinds of ideas. I am stoked to work with everyone. I am coming
in like this. I appreciate that we are going to get a lot done. I am already doing a lot
of things getting ready for the Public Safety & Human Services Committee
Chairmanship. I have been putting a lot of attention on Public Works, so I am really
excited to make a positive difference. I am happy that I have some of the
Intergovernmental Relations Committee because I know a lot of these things really
probably also requires State and non-governmental agencies. I am basically saying
that I accept this and I am happy to be a part of the team. As Councilmember-Elect
Kuali`i was talking about, you are going to see me consistently voting on what I feel
is right, from what I am hearing from people, but I do not look to be on a Council with
seven (7) Councilmember-Elect Cowdens. I want us all to have a different position so
that we can learn from each other and work with each other. I am happy to
contribute. I am not on the Planning Committee, but I am definitely going to be out
there on the west side listening to what they want and being involved. As an ex-officio
member, I still can come to the meetings and share ideas. Thank you.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 30 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Correct. Ex-officio members can sit in
the meetings. Typically, we say let the Committee members ask all of their questions
first and then if the Committee members are done asking their questions, ex-officios
can ask whatever questions they want. They only thing the ex-officio cannot do is
vote on that Committee, but the bill will come to the full Council and that ex-officio
member will get to vote on it at full Council. Are there any other questions or
comments? Are we okay to move forward? Councilmember-Elect Evslin.
Councilmember-Elect Evslin: I do not want to throw a wrench into any of it
as far as switching around, but if Councilmember-Elect Kagawa had any interest in
switching Public Safety & Human Services Committee with the Housing &
Intergovernmental Relations Committee. If you had interest in Public Safety, I would
have a lot of interest in being on the Housing & Intergovernmental Relations
Committee.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Can we take a recess?
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Yes. We will take a recess.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: I think we can fix it.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: We will take a recess. They can discuss
it and come back, then hopefully we will have a solution.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 5:24 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 5:29 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Can we get a motion?
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa moved to accept the standing Committees of the
Council, the Committee Chairs, the Committee Vice Chairs, and the
Committee Members for the 2018-2020 Council term, which is attached hereto
and incorporated herein as Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember-Elect
Kuali`i.
The motion to accept the standing Committees of the Council, the Committee
Chairs, the Committee Vice Chairs, and the Committee Members for the
2018-2020 Council term, as amended, which is attached hereto and
incorporated herein as Attachment 1, was then put and carried by the following
vote:
FOR MOTION: Brun, Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST MOTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 31 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
• Discussion of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kaua`i for the
Organization of Committees and the Transaction of Business.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I had one (1) small change to the Rules,
and it is regarding public testimony. Right now, it says you can either repeat of
rephrase, and I was going to change "rephrase" to "clarify their position for or against
the agenda item." The next sentence still says that we are not allowed to give more
people more time to coach them questions to give them more time to get more
testimony than everyone else. But I do believe it is the responsibility of the testifier
to come in and know what they are testifying about without us trying to steer them.
I think clarifying their position for or against so something that we do not get a lot.
We will get testifiers come in and they will just talk about the issue and not say, "I
am for this bill or against this bill." I think as the testifier, it is their responsibility
to state it. If they do not know, then state that they do not know if they are for or
against a bill. I know we did have questions on being able to ask the testifiers a lot
of questions. For me, I think my philosophy is that is the testifier's time to testify
without getting hindered by the County Council, without us trying to say that we do
not like their testimony, let me ask questions to steer them, or they are not really
testifying on the agenda item, so let me try and steer them towards the agenda item.
I think it is the testifier's responsibility to be informed, testify on what they want,
and that is their prerogative. That is their testimony and we take their testimony.
Then, if we do need to ask them to repeat a statement or clarify their position on this
bill, I think it is our prerogative to know where they stand on the bill. I was very
hesitant to put "clarify" because we have seen how that broad language goes. It gets
the people up here nervous because we start pounding on them; clarify this, clarify
that, and why do you think this? I think we leave it. That is their testimony. That
is their testimony for themselves and not for us to steer them from their testimony.
That is the only change I have. Councilmember-Elect Cowden.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: I also chose that very same item, Rule
No. 11(10). I changed it differently because I am thinking of the other kind of
testifiers. Sometimes, we have testifiers that he is discussing that maybe do not
really understand or do not testify often. But other times, we have people who come
up who are actually relative experts, stakeholders, or incredibly prepared to give
really meaningful information. I am thinking with that in mind. I said, "The Chair
may allow Councilmembers to ask speakers to repeat or rephrase statements made
during their testimony, but Councilmembers shall" and instead of saying "not ask," I
said, "limit questions that give the speaker a greater opportunity to testify than
others." I put in here, "On the occasions when there are public testifiers that have
pertinent skills, background, or are a stakeholder, additional but minimized
questions can be asked that shed relevant information to the agenda item." I do not
know if it is the correct way to write it, but I did say "Questions shall not be asked
that are intended to change or guide the testifier's point of view, challenge their
competence, or do not add vital information." Sometimes, we see questions go back
and forth with people and Councilmembers try to talk them out of their position. I
think that is unfair. Or sometimes to shed doubt on who they are, that is a difficult
and I do not believe it is our intention. But sometimes, people are really critically
important. I could give examples of when that happens. It is of value that we are
able to ask them questions because sometimes, we do not know what we do not know.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 32 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
They might presume that we know a lot more than we do. That is why I wanted to
put that it there.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Let me do this, let us go through the
first one first.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Because it is only a few words and then
if we want, we will look at yours and then we can vote on that because it would be
adding on to the first one.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Then we would not get confused
between the two (2).
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions on
"clarifying their position for or against the agenda item" and the whole intent of it?
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa moved to amend the Rules of the Council of the
County of Kaua`i for the Organization of Committees and the Transaction of
Business as circulated, which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as
Attachment 2, seconded by Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Is there any final discussion? If not,
roll call vote.
The motion to amend the Rules of the Council of the County of Kaua`i for the
Organization of Committees and the Transaction of Business as circulated,
which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as Attachment 2 was then
put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR MOTION: Brun, Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST MOTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Next, let us circulate
Councilmember-Elect Cowden's amendment. Can I get a motion?
Councilmember-Elect Cowden moved to amend the Rules of the Council of the
County of Kaua`i for the Organization of Committees and the Transaction of
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 33 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Business as circulated, which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as
Attachment 3, seconded by Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Okay. Now, we are on this one.
Councilmember-Elect Brun.
Councilmember-Elect Brum: With this, when we put items on the
agenda, we can bring these people in as...
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Experts.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: Expert resources. I think with doing
this, we are going back to how it was four (4) years ago. If these people are our people
and we are just going to give them half an hour or whatever. When we put something
on the agenda, I think we can still bring these people as experts anyway and they are
going to have their time to speak. That is why the rule was changed in the first place,
so I think by doing it this way, it is going to bring it right back to that. If it is someone
that I like, I am just going to give them and they are going to talk for hours. I think
that is why the rule was changed.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: That is why the rule was changed.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: Yes. I think by doing this, I am sorry, we are
going back to that. We can always bring these people up as experts, have their time,
and keep on going. I think that is already covered. I understand what you are trying
to do and it is a good thing, but I just think that we are going to get away from how
it was and we are going back to how it used to be. I think that is a dangerous place.
Sorry.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Cowden.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: I think that a lot of times, we do not know, we
just do not know. Someone comes up, sits down, says, "Well, I am a Councilmember
from San Luis Obispo" or something like that, and they start to share something.
Well, we did not know that. We had someone who pulled out the additional rental
unit nuance that the rest of us did not see and because he came, we asked a few more
questions. He was not planned to be an expert and so we found a challenge and was
able to fix it. Over the years that I have been here, I think Councilmember-Elect
Kagawa brought up Bill No. 2491, it went over the top in terms of the problem. I
have been coming to Council for about thirty (30) years and that was a very painful
issue that brought out a lot of different behavior, and I think that we are not going to
have that kind of behavior. I worry that if someone comes forward, it becomes
favoritism if we say, "Oh, well this person is actually interesting and seems like they
know what they are doing," so then all of a sudden we give them extra questions and
treat them like an expert when we would not necessarily even know that they were
or would be considered experts before they came. That is why I am trying to avoid.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Chock.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 34 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I created an amendment on this as well. I
thought maybe we could circulate both and have a discussion on it.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Chock moved to amend the Rules of the Council of the
County of Kaua`i for the Organization of Committees and the Transaction of
Business as circulated, which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as
Attachment 4, seconded by Councilmember-Elect Brun.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I will give my broad overview on the
expert testifier, putting the language in here is a little difficult because when someone
comes up and testifies, someone is going to have to make a decision whether that
person is an expert or not. It is kind of a difficult situation to be in where maybe the
Chair that is running the meeting may think they are an expert and then maybe
other people around the table do not think they are an expert. We have had expert
testifiers come in before and ahead of time, they come in and we use them as a
resource, they sit up here, they state their piece, and we ask them questions. They
are treated separately from actual public testifiers. I guess that is where I would like
to try and maybe keep it separate where we are considering an expert testifier versus
just a public testifier. If we can try and think of how we can do that a little clearer.
If it is not incorporating it into the rules, but knowing that if we have people that are
here that are experts or even if someone comes up. It is very rare where we have had
times where expert testifiers came up where and we did not ask them questions.
Again, it is a kind of a difficult judgment call. To try and prevent any fighting in the
future where part of the Council thinks that someone is an expert and the other
Councilmembers says, "I think they are just a public testifier." Any way to kind of
alleviate that, I would be all ears.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Let me just explain my amendment here. It
is an addition to the very end of the current rule. It says, "If however, the Chair" so
it is identifying a specific person and will give that Chair more power, obviously
because they are running the meeting, "determines that a speaker is a "resource
person," the Chair may allow Councilmembers to ask questions that may assist in
the decision-making process, as long as the line of questioning does not undermine
the speaker's position." I agree with Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro that it has to
be clear that there is a way to do it because often times, it is like we cannot make a
decision if that person is a valid testifier or not. My fear is also that sometimes, there
are people who have information that we need or could use and so, I am just looking
for a way for that to occur. But we are leaving it up to one (1) person to make that
decision. If Councilmember-Elect Evslin wants to ask a question, it comes to the
Chair, and the Chair makes the decision, "Yes, you can ask." It is basically kind of
what we are doing now, but it is in writing. Right now, there is the flexibility, but
basically, no one is making the decision right now because we do not know if that
person is an expert resource or not. I do not know.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 35 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Chock: That is an option.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: It is a really small thing. I do think it would
be good to give that just to the Chair to decide because someone else ultimately has
to. But to alleviate any confusion, I would separate it out from (10) and maybe create
an (11) so that it is seen as something different. Do you know what I mean? That it
is not just regular public testimony, even though it is going to come up as a part of
public testimony. Then, the Chair could then make the determination and then carve
out some time later maybe when public testimony is all done, to bring that person
back as an expert.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any other comments?
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: Or a resource person. I like "resource person"
better than "expert," too.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Brun.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: I understand what Councilmember-Elect
Kuali`i is saying, but I think with that, it would not cover what Councilmember-Elect
Cowden is trying to do because if the person just shows up here and we feel like he is
as resource person, maybe he cannot come back in two (2) weeks. Do you know what
I mean? I understand what you are trying to get at, but I think with
Councilmember-Elect Chock's one, by leaving it together, if the person is here and we
feel like he is a good resource person, we can just ask him the questions here. That
will also warrant Councilmember-Elect Cowden's one. I would have an issue with
moving it out. I would leave it there in case the person cannot come back in two (2)
weeks. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: I did not mean come back at another time. I
just meant public testimony is going on, everyone has their three (3) minutes, it is
not fair all of sudden now to turn someone into a resource person, and give them half
an hour because everyone is waiting.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Yes.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: So you would bring that person back when
public testimony is done and everyone had their three (3) minutes, and then they
would come back for twenty (20), thirty (30), or whatever if you decided. Obviously,
if someone had a strong feeling about bringing them back, they could make their case
to the Chair. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I am okay with that. I think it is just a matter
of putting in writing.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 36 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Let me take a quick recess. I will
consult with our attorney on it because I know we do have some verbiage on resource
people already, and then we will come right back to this.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Quick recess.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 5:45 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 5:48 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Okay, welcome back. I understand
what we are trying to do when sometimes, there are resource people up here and
trying to find a balance on us, not pounding a testifier, but yet, when there is a
testifier that has the knowledge and skillset on the agenda item that we are talking
about and wanting to ask the more questions. Right now, we do have the flexibility
to call them up during the actual agenda item. It is the Chair's prerogative to decide
whether they are an expert testifier or not. According to our attorney, if we try to put
in more rules, we may end up shooting our foot on the flexibility of allowing the Chair
to bring this person back up as an expert testifier. I think as a group right now, we
understand what the intent is. If there is someone here that has the background and
information and we want to know more, the Chair has the prerogative to say, "Can I
call you back later after everyone has had their opportunity to speak?" Again, we do
not want people to be coming in three (3) minutes, three (3) minutes, three (3)
minutes, and then we take forty (40) minutes on an expert testifier here and anyone
else that needs to testify has to wait. We would take their testimony and call them
back after everyone has had the chance to testify and ask them a few more questions,
the Chair, at that time whatever Committee it is, feels it is in order, they will be able
to testify longer. Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Thank you. Just for clarification, that comes
from a State statute, so that is already—we just have not put it into practice, is what
I am hearing. My hope is that we exercise it moving forward, that ability for us to
call on those who we deem necessary or have information so that we can do our job
better. That is really what I am looking for. Again, it will be up to the call of the
Chair. I just want to make sure that agreement is clear. Thank you.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden withdrew the motion to amend the Rules of the
Council of the County of Kaua`i for the Organization of Committees and the
Transaction of Business, which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as
Attachment 3. Councilmember-Elect Chock withdrew the second.
Councilmember-Elect Chock withdrew the motion to amend the Rules of the
Council of the County of Kaua`i for the Organization of Committees and the
Transaction of Business, which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as
Attachment 4. Councilmember-Elect Brun withdrew the second.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 37 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any other changes or
questions to the rules? Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I do have one (1) more. This one is on oral
testimony, (c). This is one that we already do and I think I heard it in public
testimony, too. In practice, we do this already. There was some request that we
would go back to the eighteen (18) minute rule, that means that at the beginning of
every meeting, we would have eighteen (18) minutes set aside. That kind of
undermined, our own process previously, but there has been flexibility this term,
which I appreciated from our current Council, is that anyone who comes up, comes to
the meeting and cannot stay for an item, can testify on any item. I am proposing that
we just put that into practice here, so I will just read the whole piece here. It says,
"Persons wishing to testify are requested to register with the Clerk prior to the Chair
calling the meeting to order." Here is the change, "In signing up, any person with
time constraints may indicate a need to speak at the beginning of the agenda, which
shall be allowed." This just to me, it clarifies it so people know that it is available.
There have been, on occasion, where people have come up and said, "Hey, I thought I
could speak." Well, they did not speak up or we might have forgotten on our end to
say, "By the way, does anyone need to testify right now?" I am just hoping that this
can help provide some clarity. I do not know if it needs more.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Can I get a motion on this?
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i moved to amend the Rules of the Council of the
County of Kaua`i for the Organization of Committees and the Transaction of
Business, which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as Attachment 5,
seconded by Councilmember-Elect Brun.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Cowden.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: I remember when we used to have this and it
was good, but something I thought that existed in the past that is important is if a
person asked to do that, that they forfeit their time to speak once the issue comes up
because otherwise, if people can speak now and later, it really lengthens the day a lot
and everyone will jump in early and then decide if they want to stay or not. I thought
that was a good constraint.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Kagawa.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: For me, I am just kind of concerned like we
had the gentleman today asking for the Police to remove him or he was going to stay
there. Is this going to happen weekly once we have this rule in place? Are we going
to start meetings everyday forty-five (45) minutes after when we should start? Again,
you want to have good discussion, but you do not want to have those kinds of
situations every week as well, because that was totally a waste of time. That was
totally unnecessary. I am just saying, yes, you weigh the good, but you also weigh
the bad.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 38 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I think in practice, we have done this.
I think there has been times where people say, "Hey, I need to leave by lunch. Would
I be able to...," we see the meeting going long, and we have allowed them to testify on
it. We have allowed people to testify on the communication and say it is part of their
testimony on the actual bill also and that is their time to testify. I would like to see
people testifying on the agenda item when it is up, but I think we have been flexible
on this for the people that needed it. I have seen where people said that they have to
testify now and then they have stayed during the whole meeting. In this case, you
could not do anything about that because it says they "shall" be able to. I do not
know. It is kind of a give and take. Councilmember-Elect Brun.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: I guess the question is, being that you are
going to be the Council Chair, will you allow people to speak at the beginning of the
meeting if they come and say that they have time constraints? Will you allow that?
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Yes.
Councilmember-Elect Brun: Okay. By doing it that way, how we always
did it to eliminate this, is because if they come the next time—I understand what you
just said, that they speak at the beginning, but they stay for three (3) or four (4) hours,
the next time they come, you say, "Do you know what? You are going to have to wait
for the agenda item because the last time, you burned us on this." I think if you are
going to agree to do it, then we do not need to put this in and I think we can avoid
that from happening. I do not know how the body feels on that.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I saw Council Chair Rapozo do it and I
think he was more than fair. I think that is the way it should be. I did see it abused
a few times where he let the person go and then they ended up staying the whole
time. It is like, okay, we just unfairly gave you that chance when you could have
waited the whole time. I would be open to having it based on the Chair. I do not see
any reason not to. I do not think that we get that type of request very much. It is
very few where someone will come and say, "I need to go at this certain time." It is
up to you folks though. Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: To have what happened today, I think, is not
what I am looking for, obviously. If someone says, to me, did we ask them why they
stayed? Maybe their meeting got canceled and they do not have to go anymore. I
think we are making assumptions here. I am okay if this does not get put in there
because of the flexibility and the past practice. Where I think it starts to get a little
bit muddled is in practice and when the practice is not articulated. For instance, does
the first Chair of the meeting make sure that they call for public testimony every
time? How do we know? Maybe the answer is in the sign-up sheet over there, that
says, "If you have to leave early, then please let us know" and then it is available. I
am just saying that I am looking for some clarity on it because I think that the
practice is a little inconsistent in every situation.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Evslin.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 39 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Evslin: Just really quick. I obviously have not spent
one fraction of time that you folks have in this building, so I do not know how often
that type of thing gets abused or taken advantage of. From the outside, it seems like
just making it as easy as possible for anyone to provide input even if they do not have
time constraints, just to make sure if anyone knows that if there is something that
they are interested in on the agenda, that instead of trying to figure out what time it
is going to be, that they can just show up at the beginning of the meeting and say
their piece and then leave. I support this being in there and I support going one step
further and just crossing out that first part regarding time constraints. Any person
can speak at the beginning if they want.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Cowden.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: I just want to add a little balance to that. A
lot of times, people come in and they have something they want to say, but they do
not actually understand the issue. People will come in and you might get fifteen (15)
people who all testify and that takes an hour and fifteen (15) minutes. Then when
the issue actually comes up and you have the expert testimony or the introductory
testimony, if they had heard that first, they would have gone, "Oh." So we can have a
lot of tangent testimony so it guides people to be well-informed. Then, I think their
testimony is probably more meaningful to themselves as well because they are not
allowed to ask us questions, so sometimes their testimony is a hidden question. If
they knew, then we would be more time-efficient. That is a reason to not just open it
up really wide.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I may a take a recess again on this
because in the past, we did allow eighteen (18) minutes in the beginning of every
meeting for anyone to testify. I do not know if we are skirting the OIP opinion. Did
you check with Mauna Kea on this?
Councilmember-Elect Chock: No.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: We will take...
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I know this was introduced or we talked about
it previously. I think it was just voted down. I am of understanding that it was
probably legal.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Kagawa.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: My recollection was it was problematic for
OIP to have people speak randomly. It was cleaner when there is an agenda item
that they are speaking about. That is why it was something that was at the discretion
of the Chair because it was not something encouraged by OIP, that we just allow
random testimony. Sometimes, it hits the mark and a few times, it does not. But it
is just that OIP wanted a clearer way of having it, which was to have the agenda item
and then people speaking about that topic. I think that is why it was problematic
and that is why Council Chair Rapozo recommended that we remove it and allow him
the discretion as we have done for many years from Council Chair Jay Furfaro's time.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 40 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
We have allowed testimony at the beginning. I think Bill No. 2491, again, that
changed everything because it was abused. We would have two (2) or three (3) hours
of testimony, we did not even start the meeting, and we had people who have to fly
back to O`ahu and the mainland. It was chaos. To me, I would support leaving it as-
is at the discretion of the various Chairs, and if we encounter problems, then let us
come with the rule changes. I know you would like to see the rule changes first, but
under Council Chair Rapozo's leadership, I have not found that to be a problem in
accommodating the public, and I anticipate Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro will
follow through with the same type of courtesy to the public.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Evslin.
Councilmember-Elect Evslin: I have two (2) thoughts, one is just maybe to
address that issue of people speaking on this and that which are not on the agenda.
Part of it could be written in there that they have to identify which agenda topic they
are testifying on. To go back one more time to the reason why I think it is important
to have it in the rules, is just so that it is clear for everyone. Majority of the people
never come and testify. If they are going to come and testify on something that is
important to them, it is their first time ever, and if it is really clear that if they show
up at this time at the meeting, then they can testify and then leave, I think there is
hesitation if it is up to the Chair, then they are not going to show up at 8:00 a.m. or
ever again.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I just want to check in. Is it legal or not? If it
is illegal, then we cannot even do what we are doing now.
Mr. Trask: For the record, Mauna Kea Trask, County
Attorney. I do not think it is illegal to allow for people to testify in the beginning if
they have a time problem. I think what the issue was back then was we had a
question as to whether you could speak on any agenda item for eighteen (18) minutes,
and that was kind of arbitrary. There were one hundred (100) people, eighteen (18)
minutes was not going to be enough, and whatever it is. However, it can be done, but
you have to think about order, decorum, process, and doing business. Just remember
a couple of things when you make this decision, the County of Kaua`i gives more time
to speak than anyone else. O`ahu give them one (1) minute. You can get up to six (6).
You have the first three (3) and then you have the second three (3). Also, too, I said
this a couple of times, you can also submit your testimony in writing. I know, for the
record, all of the Councilmembers read that testimony and you are not limited by any
page amount or time. You can write it all out. Testimony here, three (3) and three (3)
is for the television. It really is, and you cannot really articulate, you get nervous,
and all of that. Come and testify, show your support, but also submit it in writing.
They read it and then they give the rest to the Deputy County Clerk who sits near
the door. However you want to do what is legal as long as you provide the same for
everyone, but I think Councilmember-Elect Chock has a good thing. I think this is
more of a process and notice, which can be done on the sign-up sheet. The Deputy
County Clerk is usually really good about letting people know even if the Members
forget.
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 41 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: In looking at the language, when it
says, "beginning of the agenda," it is kind of unclear when that is. I think in past
practice, if someone says, "I need to leave," then the person will usually look at the
agenda or if it is in a Committee, they will let the other people in the Committee
know. If it is the Council Chair, they will usually let the agenda and maybe the
communication is kind of early and we know we will get through it fast, then they
will say, "We will get through all of this, roll call, everything, minutes, and then when
we get to this communication, we will let you testify on the agenda item and the
communication," then that gives them the flexibility to still kind of follow the agenda.
I do not know. Again, it all comes down to how we want to run the meeting. I think
just "beginning of the agenda," I do not know how we would do it, then you would be
moving items ahead. Again, it is all comes down to the discretion of the Chair on how
you do it. Do we want to solidify the rule or do we want to follow what we have been
doing in the past? For me and thinking of how I want to run it, I would try to be as
fair as possible, but I do want the flexibility to be able to get through agenda items
that we know we are going to move through really quickly and then say, "Okay, I
know you have a time constraint, but I know we can get through all of these agenda
items quickly and if we do not, we will take a recess, and then take your item and go."
But at least it gives the Chair the flexibility. If we say "beginning of the agenda,"
then I think we are tying our hands a little bit. That is just me thinking about how
we would process it. I want us to get through it as smoothly as possible.
Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: Thank you. I just want to be clear, I do not
want the eighteen (18) minute rule back because that was problematic. People were
just spending time, basically, not wanting to waste time, but using up time. That
extended our meeting at the front end an hour when it was unnecessary. I think I
would be okay, like I said earlier, in letting this go as long as what is happening in
practice is that people are being notified that they can do it. If that is, again, either
some verbiage that does not have to be in our rules. It can be on the testimony sign-
up sheet, that they know that this is an option, or if the Council Chair at the very
beginning of the meeting says, "By the way, if you have a time constraint, let us know
now," or I think the first Committee is Public Works & Veterans Services, that they
say it, too. Then, I am okay because we are doing it already expect that it is
inconsistent because as I said, some people come back and say, "Hey, I thought you
were going to let me testify." Who knows who is right or wrong at that moment?
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any other comments or
questions? For me, I think I would more comfortable not having this in, but us using
our judgment and being able to adjust. I think for the most part, people usually tell
us that they are in a rush or need to go, or if an item is going long, they will say, "I
cannot stay that long." I am in favor of us putting it on the paper and saying, "If you
need to speak immediately, then we will hear it then," and then we kind of adjust the
agenda. But it still gives us the flexibility as the Chair to get other work done also.
Then, we can see if everyone is signing up to go early so they can leave or what,
however it goes. I think I would rather not have our hands tied on it being at the
beginning of the agenda, but instead being able to try and accommodate them as best
as possible or as reasonably as possible. If people tell you ahead of time, maybe if
they tell Councilmember-Elect Brun, "I have to go," then at least all of us keep the
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 42 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
communication and say, "This testifier needs to go early, so let us try and
accommodate them."
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I did not make the motion.
Councilmember-Elect Kuali`i withdrew the motion to amend the Rules of the
Council of the County of Kaua`i for the Organization of Committees and the
Transaction of Business, which is attached hereto and incorporated herein as
Attachment 5. Councilmember-Elect Brun withdrew the second.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions on the
rules? That is it.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Wait, did we take action on
Councilmember-Elect Chock's other one?
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I pulled that one.
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: He withdrew it. We withdrew it.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Did we decide?
Councilmember-Elect Cowden: We decide not to do it.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Yes. Right now, we do have the
flexibility to bring in testifiers based on the State law.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: Okay, alright. I just want to have all of the
amendments for the staff because it is going to be very difficult to do amendments at
the Kaua`i War Memorial Convention Hall when our Office is here.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Again, the intent is to get everything
hashed out here so that when we go to Inauguration, we are clear on what direction
we are heading. For me, the votes are the votes. However the way you vote at the
Inauguration is how you want to vote. Again, we just want to be able to get through
Inauguration, have our families see us, get sworn in, make it a happy celebration,
and we move on. Then, the real work starts. That is when we are really going to
have to get to work as a Council and as a body together, which I am looking forward
to do. Councilmember-Elect Chock.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I just want clarification for Inauguration
because I think once someone says something, that is it, right? The ball gets rolling.
Are we in agreement that what we are going to do is go straight to the votes? I just
want to make sure that we are all on the same page on that.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: I can tell you that in the past, we said
that we were just going to go to the votes, no one is going to say anything, we take
the votes, we know where everyone stands, and we go. Then when we get to
Inauguration, that is not the way it goes. Ideally for me, I think we had the discussion
COUNCIL-ELECT MEETING 43 NOVEMBER 28, 2018
here, we take the votes, we move on, and we get inaugurated. I think that would be
the best. I would hate to see us start saying things there, fighting, and then it is just
a mess, I do not expect to move forward like that. But if we can all agree, again, I
think the last two (2) times we did it, we agreed, and it did not work out that way,
but I think if we go to the meeting this time and agree that we know where everyone
stands, we know where the straw votes are, and we just kind of move forward.
Councilmember-Elect Chock: I can agree. I just want to make sure everyone
is in agreement, that is all.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Okay.
Councilmember-Elect Kagawa: I can only speak for my supporters. My
supporters do not go out to these events and attack other Members on the Council.
Those are my kind of supporters.
Councilmember-Elect Kaneshiro: Okay. Are there any further questions
or comments? Hearing no objections, this meeting is now adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council-Elect Meeting adjourned at
6:10 p.m.
R• _••ctfull, submitted,
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
:aa
PUBLIC WORKS & VETERANS SERVICES COMMITTEE Attachment 1
Ross Kagawa, Chair
Felicia Cowden, Vice Chair
Mason K. Chock, Member PROPOSED BY
KipuKai Kuali`i, Member COUNCILMEMBER-ELECT
Luke A. Evslin, Member ARRYL KANESHIRO
Arthur Brun, Ex-Officio Member
Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
PARKS & RECREATION/ TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE
Arthur Brun, Chair
Ross Kagawa, Vice Chair
Felicia Cowden, Member
Luke A. Evslin, Member
KipuKai Kuali`i, Member
Mason K Chock, Ex-Officio Member
Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
PLANNING COMMITTEE
Mason K. Chock, Chair
Luke A. Evslin, Vice Chair
Arthur Brun, Member
Ross Kagawa, Member
KipuKai Kuali`i, Member
Felicia Cowden, Ex-Officio Member
Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
HOUSING & INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE
KipuKai Kuali`i, Chair
Mason K. Chock, Vice Chair
Arthur Brun, Member
Felicia Cowden, Member
Ross Kagawa, Member
Luke A. Evslin, Ex-Officio Member
Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
PUBLIC SAFETY & HUMAN SERVICES COMMITTEE
Felicia Cowden, Chair
Arthur Brun, Vice Chair
Mason K. Chock, Member
Luke A. Evslin, Member
KipuKai Kuali`i, Member
Ross Kagawa, Ex-Officio Member
Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
FINANCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE
Luke A. Evslin, Chair
KipuKai Kuali`i, Vice Chair
Mason K. Chock, Member
Felicia Cowden, Member
Ross Kagawa, Member
Arthur Brun, Ex-Officio Member
Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
Arryl Kaneshiro, Chair
Ross Kagawa, Vice Chair
Arthur Brun, Member Y w d r al ti
Mason K. Chock, Member �.��,2p
Felicia Cowden, Member i a
Luke A. Evslin, Member
KipuKai Kuali`i, Member
Attachment 2
PROPOSED BY
RULE NO 11 COUNCILMEMBER-ELECT
TESTIMONY ARRYL KANESHIRO
***
(10) The Chair may allow Councilmembers to ask speakers to
repeat or [rephrase statements] clarify their position for or against the
agenda, item made during their testimony, but Councilmembers shall
not ask questions that give the speaker a greater opportunity to testify
than others. Councilmembers shall not ask speakers about the
substance of their testimony, or comment on testimony or speakers
during the testimony period.
***
Attachment 3
November 26, 2018
From: Felicia Cowden
To: 2018-2020 council elect
regarding: notes for 11/26/18 pre-inauguration meeting
Rule change
Rule 11 (10) page 18
(10) The chair may allow councilmembers to ask speakers to repeat
or rephrase statements made during their testimony, but
Councilmembers shall [lot asl ] limit questions that give the speaker
a greater opportunity to testify than others. [�uur�ci��r�e� ouers si lath
nor ask speakers auout ine subsiarice ineir testimony, or comment
on testimony or speakers during the testimony perioc' ] On the
occasions when there are public testifiers that have pertinent skills,
background or are a stakeholder, additional but minimized questions
can be asked that shed relevant information to the agenda item.
Questions shall not be asked that are intended to change or guide the
testifier's point of view, challenge their competence or do not add
vital information.
rationale: opportunities are missed to hear valuable testimony with the
limited time window, or when the speaker is unaware of missing
information in the council's awareness.
Committee preference:
all committees hold my interest.
It was suggested I chair the Committee on Public Safety and
Transportation. Can that be combined with Intergovernmental
Relations?
rationale: many of the required adjustments or improvements require
state collaboration.
Attachment 4
PROPOSED BY
RULE NO. 11 COUNCILMEMBER-ELECT
TESTIMONY MASON K. CHOCK
***
(10) The Chair may allow Councilmembers to ask speakers to
repeat or rephrase statements made during their testimony, but
Councilmembers shall not ask questions that give the speaker a greater
opportunity to testify than others. Councilmembers shall not ask
speakers about the substance of their testimony, or comment on
testimony or speakers during the testimony period. If however, the
Chair determines that a speaker is a "resource person," the Chair may
allow Councilmembers to ask questions that may assist in the
decision-making process, as long as the line of questioning does not
undermine the speaker's position.
***
RULE NO. 12
PUBLIC HEARINGS
***
(e) Conduct of Public Hearings.
(1) Public hearings are held to receive testimony from the public.
Councilmembers shall reserve their opinions, questions, and arguments for the
appropriate Council or Committee meeting. If however, the Chair determines
that a speaker is a "resource person," the Chair may allow Councilmembers to
ask questions that may assist in the decision-making process, as long as the
line of questioning does not undermine the speaker's position.
***
Attachment 5
PROPOSED BY
RULE NO. 11 COUNCILMEMBER-ELECT
TESTIMONY MASON K. CHOCK
***
(c) Oral testimony.
(1) Persons wishing to testify are requested to register with the Clerk
prior to the Chair calling the meeting to order. In signing up, any person with
time constraints may indicate a need to speak at the beginning of the agenda,
which shall be allowed.