HomeMy WebLinkAbout02/16/2023 Special Council minutes (C-2023-37, Res 2023-21) SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 16, 2023
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kauai, on Thursday, February 16, 2023, at 11:31 a.m., after which the
following Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Addison Bulosan
Honorable Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr.
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Bill DeCosta
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Excused: Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Council Chair Rapozo: As you folks have heard former
Councilmember Luke A. Evslin is no longer a councilmember, he is a State
Representative, so we are operating with five (5) Members today.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Carvalho moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Hearing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the agenda, as circulated, was then put, and carried
by a vote of 5:0:1 (Councilmember Kuali i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Clerk, can you read the next item?
COMMUNICATION:
C 2023-37 Communication (02/06/2023) from Council Chair Rapozo,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Opposing House Bill 132 And
Senate Bill 180 Introduced In The 2023 Hawai`i State Legislative Session.
Councilmember Carvalho moved to receive C 2023-37 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
We will take the public testimony when we get to the Resolution, this is just the
communication.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 2 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
The motion to receive C 2023-37 for the record was then put, and carried by a
vote of 5:0:1 (Councilmember Kuali i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion is carried. Next item, please.
RESOLUTION:
Resolution No. 2023-21 – RESOLUTION OPPOSING HOUSE BILL 132 AND
SENATE BILL 180 INTRODUCED IN THE 2023 HAWAII STATE LEGISLATIVE
SESSION
Councilmember Carvalho moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2023-21,
seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, we will take public testimony.
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANGIAWA, County Clerk: Council Chair, we do have
registered speakers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Before we suspend the rules, I wanted to
share the reasoning for this Resolution and why it is here today. I know we will have
a lot of people testifying and I am going to ask that we stick to the subject matter of
the Resolution. It is very simple. The State law requires that post-election audits be
done before certification, and that audit shall include an audit of no less than ten
percent (10%) of the precincts that all the paper ballots will be counted and compared
with the machines output. That is what the law says. I can remember back in 2005,
I was on the Council when the State introduced this new idea of having machine
voting. I remember the public being concerned about accuracy. It is not suspicious,
it is just that we all have computers, we all have stoves, we all have microwaves, we
all have electronics, and sometimes there is a glitch. The State consciously put the
language in the statute because that would give the people confidence that the
machines could be trusted—that is it. Thanks to many of you and others in the State,
we find out that it was not being done. That in fact they were not counting the paper
ballots by hands, even though the State clearly requires that. The State Legislature,
in this session, decided to introduce bills in the House and Senate that would remove
the requirement for those audits to be random and for audits to require the hand-
tally counts of paper ballots. The argument by the State Office of Elections, the Chief
Election Officer Scott Nagao is that the Attorney General said the method they are
using, using digital images is sufficient. My question is, "if it is sufficient, why the
need to change the law?" If you are telling me that what you have been doing is okay
with the current law, then why would you change the law? I felt the best way, as the
Kaua`i County Council, which we really have no control over the Office of Elections,
we do have a statute that protects that integrity as the County Council to send a
policy statement over to the State Legislature to tell them, "Leave the statute as-is
and require the hand-tally counts of no less than ten percent (10%) of the precincts."
That is why we are here today. I do not believe we need to read the Resolution, unless
someone wants us to read the Resolution, I am going to forgo that for time sake. I
think you all read the Resolution. With that, I will suspend the rules.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 3 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair, the first registered speaker is
Gail Smith, followed by Ralph Cushnie.
Council Chair Rapozo: I know this is a very passionate issue for
some, I am just going to ask that everyone be civil and focus on the issue at-hand,
which is the State law which is trying to be amended. Let us focus on that. Thank
you. How many speakers signed up to testify? How many of you are going to testify
today?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have eight (8) registered speakers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Everyone has six (6) minutes to testify, but we
will give you three (3) minutes at a time, just so the people on the bottom of the list
do not have to wait one-hour to testify. Give your best in your first three (3), and if
you feel like you want to come back afterwards, you are more than welcome to come
back. Three (3) minutes, because we have so many speakers. Thank you.
GAIL SMITH: This will not be three (3) minutes, but you can
ask me questions if you want to.
Council Chair Rapozo: Please state your name for the record.
Ms. Smith: I am Gail Smith.
Council Chair Rapozo: When you come up, state your name, the
green light means to start, orange gives you thirty (30) seconds, and red means your
time is up.
Ms. Smith: My name is Gail Smith. "To the Kaua`i
County Council. As an Official Observer who volunteered during this past 2022
Primary and General Elections here on Kaua`i at the Counting Center, I, Gail Smith,
observed that the Primary Election post-election audit was not conducted as to
Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) 16-42 Section (b)(3) which is to compare the
electronic ballot tallies to the hand-tallies of paper ballots. Instead, the electronic
ballot tallies were compared to hand-tallies of the electronic ballot reports, not the
hand-tallies of the actual paper ballots. The General Election audit was similarly
conducted as the Primary Election, hand-tallying the electronic ballot images and
comparing it to the electronic ballot reports. But this time, with a request from some
of the observers, the auditors also counted the randomly selected paper ballots and
compared it with the electronically generated report. This time, the ballots were in
VBSs organized by districts/precincts and so the two (2) precincts to be audited were
easily retrieved. If a true audit is to occur, hand counting of the actual documents
(paper ballots) in focus is an important procedure to be utilized, and then compared
to an electronically generated report which should confirm the accuracy of the final
report." I heard the term "trust, yet verify," and when we verify, we need to verify the
real document. "I support Resolution No. 2023-21 to oppose HB 132 and SB 180.
Respectfully, Gail Adeline Lizama Smith."
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 4 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Ralph Cushnie, followed by James Rosa.
RALPH CUSHNIE: Thank you, Councilmembers. My name is
Ralph Cushnie. Thank you very much for writing this Resolution. Some things to
think about and basically the difference between hand counting and using an
electronic machine. The use of electronic machine centralizes the counting. Back in
the days when we had precinct paper ballots, the people used to count the ballots
themselves in each precinct. Now we have gone to an electronic voting machine and
the electronic voting machine counts the ballots. We have election observers, but they
do not count the ballots. No one is allowed to look at the election machines ahead of
time, because the machines are proprietary. You can look into the source code and
ask how is this machine adding the votes together. I do not know what needs to be
proprietary as far as going, "You are adding one plus one, plus one, plus one," there
is no negative, there are no fractions. There should not be any reason why someone
could not look at the source code of the machine ahead of time. So, we are not doing
that, and at the end of the audit, what we found out is you are supposed to be looking,
as Council Chair Rapozo said, at the paper ballots, randomly picking ten percent
(10%) of the precincts, and the hand counting the paper ballots in those precincts, all
of them—all the races on that ballot. If there is anything unusual that is happening,
then you would pick that up, by doing that. HRS 16-42 was written just for that
purpose, which says, "Randomly select ten percent (10%) and hand count"—so that is
not being done. The way the bill is worded in the SB 132, it says, "It adds
requirements to the Elections Office to do,"—this lessens the requirements, it is false
advertisement. There is less checks and balances; there is pretty much no checks and
balances. It is basically a "shell game" what they are doing right now.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thirty (30) seconds.
Mr. Cushnie: I will come back and add more to this, but it
is a shell game and we need to know that what the people voted for is what is being
reported, otherwise, how do you know? Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is James Rosa, followed by
Laura Cushnie.
JAMES ROSA: Good morning, everyone. A lot of familiar
faces here.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Rosa, please state your name.
Mr. Rosa: James Rosa. I am very concerned, because I
believe every single one of our votes count without a doubt. I am here today distinctly
opposed to electronic ballots. I am a paper ballot guy. I am a federal firearms dealer
with two (2) federal licenses for over thirteen (13) years. The Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms (ATF), that is a federal agency that I must answer to. They do not
allow electronic paperwork. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 5 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
(ATF) Form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record), is required every time someone
picks up a firearm, I must supply it and I have to keep it until I die or I dissolve my
company, which I send to them. There is always a backup, an accurate count because
electronics are not one hundred percent (100%). Forms and paperwork are one
hundred percent (100%). They can audit me anytime they want, anytime they want
to find a firearm, they give me twenty-four (24) hours to go back in my archives of
probably forty (40) to fifty (50) cases, numerically or to find the result of that
paperwork, and it cannot be manipulated, so I am here today to say I do not agree
with the electronic ballot, because there is no backup, who is going to audit it. They
can audit me anytime they want and they will find the truth. I am totally against
electronic ballots,we need paper backups and we need to conduct audits on this island
where anyone can view the process. God bless, and thank you for the time.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Laura Cushnie, followed by Dr. Christopher
Lyden.
LAURA CUSHNIE: Hi, Laura Cushnie. I will keep it very short
and sweet. Thank you very much for presenting this Resolution, because we the
people and you should do everything in our power to assure everyone in the State of
Hawai`i that we have a fair and free election. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Dr. Christopher Lyden, followed by Tom
Stanton.
DR. CHRISTOPHER LYDEN: Good morning. I am Christopher Lyden, and I
want to first start by thanking Council Chair Rapozo for bringing this bill forward. I
think it is highly important, not just because I have been a retired doctor on this
island for many years, but I also have participated in recent elections over the last
number of years as an election observer. I have seen things that some...I was worried
about in the 2020 election that I personally sat and watched what the computers were
doing and what they were counting and sending out and found what I considered to
be some possible discrepancies and was concerned about—they were all done
electronically. They would be sent to Honolulu might be different than what people
are personally voting here on-island. I cannot speak to any other island, but I am
happy to hear and support all of you in bringing forth something like that, because it
is simply demands election integrity. As was mentioned, every person in this State,
in this County, in this nation has the ability to vote and legally vote, and should have
that vote counted. Any discrepancies in that need to be addressed. Are they done
internally? Typically, I do not think so, but I also was one of the few, I know Gail was
there, a former fire chief, and I...we sat in front at the last post-election audit and we
sat there and watched and went through every...more than ten percent (10%) of the
paper ballots. What we pleasantly found was it was accurate and everything seemed
to correspond to what it should be. What surprised me though, is, that is within our
County, the other counties of the State did not seem to do that. They did not follow
the law. We insisted that it was followed exactly, we discussed this with Lyndon and
others, and I was happy to see them step forward and said, "We are going to follow
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 6 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
the law precisely." I was happy to see that. I was happy to be a part of it, because
election integrity is of vital importance in this entire process and going forward, and
I thank all of you for having the ethics to say it is not right to eliminate that, to say,
"Well, if there is a problem in auditing things, if something might not be right, let us
just eliminate the audit." If you are worried about cheating, let us eliminate
examining any possibility of that. That makes no sense. This way each of you are
supporting the people of Kaua`i, the people in the State, to make sure things are done
properly and ethically and so I thank each one of you today for voting for this today,
and just the importance of it. I was happy to be a part of it and give my time to assure
that through these audits and through observing the elections, and so I hope I will be
able to do it in the future, but I thank everyone of you for being here today, and for
you, Council Chair Rapozo, for bringing this forward. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Tom Stanton, followed by LeVana Lomma.
TOM STANTON: Aloha, my name is Tom Stanton. I want to
say thank you to Council Chair Mel Rapozo for what I consider to be a tremendous
leadership on this topic. Your knowledge of why we need these audits provided for
HRS 1642 is excellent, you know exactly why we should have these audits, and really
if you do not have the audits that are provided for in 1642, voters just as importantly
candidates, have no way of really knowing if the vote counting machines have
accurately counted the votes. At the end of the day, they are machines. As Council
Chair Rapozo's said machines can sometimes malfunction. I am not saying anything
nefarious is going on, but something could happen to the machines. Without those
paper ballot audits, there is simply no way to tell if those machine results are
accurate. One thing I do know in talking to people about this issue across the state is
it does not matter what political party you are from, it does not matter if you are a
progressive democrat, a libertarian, an independent, a republican—everyone wants
their vote to count. That is essential. HRS 1642 is essential to that effort. Again, I
just want to commend each of every member of this Council for the support of this. It
is a tremendous statement that will be heard across the State. I am very proud to be
a part of this movement and this Resolution, because Kaua`i has a wonderful
independent sovereign spirit and you folks are taking it upon yourselves to take a
stand for this. For that, I say thank you and that is my testimony.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: LeVana Lomma, followed by Susan Strom.
Council Chair Rapozo: I would like to say real quick, I know a lot of
people are coming up saying thank you Council Chair Rapozo, the bottom line is that
Sunshine Law prohibits us from having all our names on this Resolution. I would
suspect that if we could put all of our names on this Resolution, I think all of our
names would be on this Resolution. Thank you, though, I appreciate that.
LEVANA LOMMA: Thank you all very much. I appreciate that. It
is a definitely a very important Resolution. My name is LeVana Lomma with For Our
Rights, we are a local grassroots nonprofit, which started a couple years ago. I am
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 7 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
here representing For Our Rights and the many Hawai`i residents that we serve.
Resolution No. 2023-21 is very important. Over the last several years we have
definitely seen that there has been a growing lack of confidence in our voting system.
HRS Section 1642 provides a safeguard to ensure election integrity in Hawai`i. Yet
it seems like it has been completely overlooked by the Office of Elections, and when
it was brought to their attention, instead of actually following the letter of the law, it
seems they decided they wanted to instead change the letter of the law. This, of
course, definitely does not help when it comes to having a sense of security in our
voting system in Hawai`i. If our votes are to be counted by machines rather than by
the hands of the people of Hawai`i, we must be afforded the ability to ensure that
count is accurate through a hand counted audit. We must preserve our election laws
as they are currently written in order to ensure that the will of the people dictates
the actions of our government. If we eliminate the only method of assurance that
those who are elected are in fact the people that we have chosen to represent us, than
we really have no liberty at all. HB 132 and SB 180, I believe, must not be passed if
we hope to ever restore faith in our voting process here in Hawai`i. For that reason,
we stand in strong opposition to HR 132 and SB 180 and definitely offer this
testimony in support of Resolution No. 2023-21 and ask that the Council please vote
to pass this Resolution today. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you so much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Susan Strom, followed by Jason Bryant.
SUSAN STROM: Aloha, I will make this brief. My name is
Susan Strom. Thank you very much for bringing this proposal forward. I think that
voter integrity is a huge critical issue right now, and we are witnessing that globally
in Brazil (inaudible .265 :25:35). Pennsylvania itself is passing a resolution to ban
voter machines altogether for this reason. These machines are manufactured, people
will say they are manufactured the Country, but not all the pieces are. Some of these
chips come from China and other places where they can be altered to do just about
anything they need to do. With the high technology capabilities nowadays, it is having
a foreign interest involved in our secure...what should be secure elections. That is a
huge national security issue. Like I said some are voting to ban machines altogether,
but until you can have that type of security guaranteed within the machines, I think
that is something to be considered as well. This is a great start though and I
appreciate this effort and this movement. The only other thing I wanted to add is,
two (2) things, one, I talk to people locally. I think a lot of people loss confidence in
our political management from the State down. I ask people if they are still voting,
and they respond no and they say their votes do not count anymore. There are things
with machines, they do not trust their vote, and they are not even bothering, which
puts us in further despair as far as trying to get the right things to accomplish for
this beautiful island and her people, who should be the first priority, always the first
priority over anything else. The last thing I want to say is when we have these types
of issues with tabulations. It leaves a lot of open loopholes for a selection rather than
election, and I think that is a dire situation and should be considered at every level.
Starting from the grassroots up, I, again want to thank you for this and I hope this
will push this forward with all the strength and might you have. Thank you for your
time.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 8 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Jason Bryant, followed by Forest Callahan.
JASON BRYANT: Hi, my name is Jason Bryant. I am a cyber
security engineer and have been one for about fifteen(15)years. I think my testimony
will be a little bit different because irrespective of the political topic, what I see is the
movement from hand tabulation to digital tabulation. Typically, when that occurs,
right, an audit is still necessary. In every case, right,whether or not what is occurring
in the voting machine and that software is a black box, what the input is and what
the outputs are is usually validated by a human, and that is how we can determine
whether the devise is trusted, right? If we think about that in the context of going to
Costco. We ring up our goods on a computer. What that computer does and how it
does what it does is a black box, because we do not know what that is. But what is
fair and transparent, when it is done is, you get to count your items, you get to see
what your totals were, and when you leave Costco, someone double checks that. I
spent the entire morning trying to read through these two (2) bills and I just do not
see how we are having fair and valid validation through the language changes. If the
original laws, right, were so strenuous that the current digital system cannot be
audited in accordance with the law, I feel that relaxing the law to allow a failing
system to continue to go unvalidated is wrong, irrespective of the topic. I truly thank
the Council for this Resolution and challenging something that is not transparent.
Whether or not it is voting, or how we even collect our money at the Department of
Motor Vehicles (DMV), I hope we continue to fight things that are transparent. Thank
you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Last registered speaker is Forest Callahan.
FOREST CALLAHAN: Good morning, my name is Forest Callahan.
Again, thank you all for giving us the opportunity to come up and submit testimonies.
I will keep it nice and short. Just for the record, let it reflect I am here in support of
the Resolution opposing those two (2) bills, HB 132 and SB 180. Instead of me giving
a testimony...on the record I support what everyone had said, and not to be
redundant, but I wanted to ask a question, because maybe I can leave here more
educated on how the process works here. To my understanding are all
Councilmembers in support of this Resolution or is it just Mel? How does this work?
Council Chair Rapozo: They can answer it later.
Mr. Callahan: I think it is the whole purpose...do we need to
cut the cameras?
Council Chair Rapozo: I will leave it up to them if they want to raise
their hand if they support the Resolution, because I do not know, to be honest.
Mr. Callahan: Councilmember Cowden, do you support the
Resolution?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 9 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Mr. Callahan: Councilmember Bulosan, do you support this
Resolution, on the record?
Councilmember Bulosan: Yes.
Mr. Callahan: Do you support this Resolution,
Councilmember DeCosta?
Councilmember DeCosta: What do you think, Mr. Callahan?
Mr. Callahan: Exactly.
Councilmember DeCosta: Why even ask?
Mr. Callahan: And then, finally, Councilmember Carvalho...
Just so we are clear, because we are all wondering. We all go through the charades.
I yield my time.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, sir. I think that is the first time
we have ever got polled from the audience.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I do not want that to be the precedent.
Councilmember DeCosta: I have a question for Mr. Callahan.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Callahan, could you come back up?
Councilmember DeCosta: We are only allowed to ask questions, not
discuss until later, but please tell me who gave you this dynamic demeanor growing
up? Who do we congratulate for making a product like this?
Mr. Callahan: People like Mel Rapozo. You know me from
when I was pretty young from Waimea High School, and they had to put me in the
back, because I was the humbug in the front. I always had a question, I always had
to say something, because I had to know. I figured maybe everyone had the same
wonder and curiosity as me. Not to offend any of you, but I figure I just had to ask,
we all had the same questions, I think, and now we know. I appreciate that.
Council Chair Rapozo: I just wanted to let Councilmember DeCosta
know that I told him to pick me. He could not see that part. Thank you. Next
speaker, Clerk.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair, we have no further registered
speakers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone that did not register that
wants to speak for the first time?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 10 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
ROSEMARIE JAUCH: Good morning. My name is Rosemarie Jauch
and I am part of the election integrity team for the Kaua`i Republican Party. I was
also a candidate for County Council. I was eliminated in the Primary by about two
hundred (200) votes. I involved myself in the election follow-up, I was also part of the
first ever signature verification observation. Based on what I reported from my
experience doing that, there is enough red flags to oppose HB 132 and SB 180. I am
in favor of the Resolution today and I will yield my time.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Mr. Hart. Is there
anyone else for the first time?
BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. I would like to
thank the entire Council for supporting this. What the State Legislators have done is
wrong. It is wrong. I have been wondering for the last several days if our honorable
senators and our congressional representatives know about this. What is on
paper...what was put on paper at the Philadelphia Convention, the Constitution of
the United States, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and the fact
out of those that the people get to vote is foundational to this republic. You strip
away an accurate vote and the rest of it crumbles. The people, our representatives
govern by the consent of the government, and it has always been my opinion that the
greatest duty and responsibility of any elected representative of the people is to
protect their liberties, and this is not doing that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, we have another registered speaker.
Stuart Wellington.
STUART WELLINGTON: For the record, Stuart Wellington. I just want
to thank the Council for sponsoring this Resolution. I support the Resolution. To be
simple, I think an audit is just to ensure everyone that we have done is correct. Just
to give you a scenario of what I think about is if I went on a trip and got on a bus and
a machine told me that everyone got on board, I would still do a headcount just to
check. Thanks again, everyone. I support the Resolution.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify for the first time? If not, second time? I think it was Mr. Cushnie that
had...please.
Mr. Cushnie: Again, thank you. My name is Ralph Cushnie.
The final thing I wanted to bring up is every aspect of the audit is controlled by the
electronic machine company. The audits that are being done...there is nothing out of
their control. There is no randomness and the images that they are looking at, they
produce. That is a problem, when someone who is being audited controls one hundred
percent (100%) of the audit. In no parts of our lives did we ever see that in your
treasury to your bank account—there are external controls, there are external audits.
That cannot stand. That needs to change. Last year, I met with Lyndon and Jade
and the internal counting procedures of the County to not jive with the counts that
the State is coming up with, that is a problem. The County numbers—that is a
problem.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 11 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: I have a question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: When you are saying that, can you give us just
a little clarity what does not jive? Are you talking about 2022 or are you talking about
a different year?
Mr. Cushnie: That was 2020.
Councilmember Cowden: Is that chain or custody, what is it?
Mr. Cushnie: The County does not keep chain of custody
documentation. There is no crosscheck of numbers. We do not know that...they are
collecting ballots and they are coming up with a number and it is different from the
State's numbers.
Councilmember Cowden: Total number of votes?
Mr. Cushnie: Total number of votes.
Councilmember Cowden: Is different than what the State says?
Mr. Cushnie: Correct.
Councilmember Cowden: By how much?
Council Chair Rapozo: Before we...
Councilmember Cowden: Oh, too much detail? Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on, hang on, because I want to make
sure...because this is not a trial. The bottom line is this, and I think we explained
this when we had the meeting, Mr. Cushnie, is that the collection of the data and the
numbers of the 2020 Elections, there were some issues, but the raw data that was
provided to the public was raw data, was data prior to unsigned ballots. Again, the
issue that we are talking about today is the statute and changing the statute, and
that is what I want to focus the topic on.
Mr. Cushnie: That is the need for counting the paper.
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct, and that is why we are here today.
Mr. Cushnie: We are having discrepancies with that. The
only way to rectify that is to count the paper.
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 12 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: And the reason I was asking is just trying to
make sure if these two (2) bills are stopped, that our existing statute would address
the problem.
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct.
Councilmember Cowden: That was my reason for asking the question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Cushnie: With the cyber security, the best way to
eliminate issues with cyber security is to eliminate the cyber and go to all paper
ballots. Before we went to the electronic voting machines, we were able to do a vote
in one day. Everyone would vote in their precinct, they would count it, and they
would have resulted that day. It takes us seven (7) weeks now to do an election, so
you cannot say that the electronic voting machines are better, because they are not
and we have no assurance. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify?
Ms. Jauch: I am back, did you miss me?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Ms. Jauch: Rosemarie Jauch. I would like to speak to the
cyber security necessitating the paper audits. As part of the first observation team,
signature verification, I did report my findings. Approximately fifteen percent (15%)
of the verifications were rejected because there was a missing signature of reference.
There was also a substantial percentage of signatures not corresponding with their
digital signature. I reported it. Those are significant numbers—fifteen percent (15%)
for no reference signature. On the last day of processing, I asked, "What do you
attribute that high percentage to," and it was explained to me that it was a scanning
issue. This was the day after the elections took place, and I asked, "How do you cure
these?" According to HRS, the voter has to be contacted to cure their vote. They said,
"We do not do that, we have another method," and I said, "What is that?" "We give it
to our supervisor." That happens with no transparency at all and it violates HRS.
We need to have audits, we need to have observers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify? Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. I just want to take
a moment...the last two (2) speakers, I am in support of why do we not just go back
to paper ballots. I think that our State Legislators—we need some assurance, the
people, and going back to paper ballots will give us that assurance. Go back to the
way it was. I will mention mail-in ballots, too. Let us go back to the restrictions that
were placed on mail-in ballots way back. Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 13 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Mr. Stanton: Thank you. Tom Stanton. I just wanted to say
that I can see that the intent of this Council is to facilitate more transparency in our
election process. I want to commend that. I would like to offer a bridge to see if maybe
the Council can continue to help revised the procedures that we have in place
could...obviously you are in support of the paper ballot audits, which are fantastic.
There are other issues that can be discussed and I look at this as a very important
meeting, because of your openness and your support for election integrity. I just hope
to continue that process with this Council and I thank you for the energy that you are
putting out for that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? If not, we will call the
meeting back to order. Councilmember DeCosta.
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember DeCosta: I want to thank all of our constituents for
showing up, testifying. I look at some of our younger adults in the audience, great
getting involved. I want to touch up on a couple things. I want to commend Jason
Bryant. I think he gave a great example of that receipt at Costco, you spend four
hundred (400) to five hundred dollars ($500), we walk through the line, we check our
receipt, they count our items, that is what they do. They count our items so they know
the accuracy of the receipt. If anyone is like my wife, she sits down and goes through
the receipt again. I am impressed. I am also impressed with the bus count example,
made by Stuart Wellington. Going on the bus, taking our children to Vegas,
Disneyland, we always making sure that the boys are on the bus, but when you hit
the bus, the bus driver keeps a tally of how many bus riders there are. When you are
in line at Disneyland, do you not go through a revolving, a walkthrough, where they
count how many people go through, and they only allow so many people on the ride.
I remember when I was in college and you would only have six (6) people on that ride,
but there were seven (7) of us, we would squeeze two (2) people through that counter,
and you would actually get on that ride with your college buddies. But is it actually
six (6)people on that ride or seven (7), because that counter only counted six (6)people
going through. The point I am trying to make is that the electronic ballot count came
into play and I not saying I believe it, what I am trying to give some constructive
information for all of you to understand, it came into play because the paper ballot
took a lot of time, employee power, and money to do. I am going to relate that to
when Mr. Cushnie would hand draw plans and today, we have systems like Computer
Aided Design (CAD), where you can draw plans on the computer and it can simulate
exactly what you are going to build. When you go to the bank and you deposit money,
do you not see the bank teller counting money? But when you bring in a large amount
of cash, they put it on the counter, and it counts the bills. Do we trust that machine
that just counted the bills? Do we trust the teller who just counted the bills? I just
wanted to shed light on this matter. It was transparent that we would go through
some type of digital thing, because that is how technology goes. I like the fact that
we are going to have an audit, I like the fact that we are going to go back and double
check our work, but I just wanted you folks to know that it is a technology and the
movement in technology—the reason why this transpired to what it is. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 14 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: I want to thank the room for coming for the
movement that has made an effort on this. I am presuming that most all of you are
in support of this Resolution. I know when I was first contacted, I believe it was
through the Cushnies, I went to a meeting that was rather large, and I thought this
cannot be accurate, but I listened. I heard. I followed up with it and I have paid a lot
of attention, I attended these meetings that happened in these National Association
of Counties (NACo), and I appreciate the courage it takes to stand up. I saw how
many people were at those meetings that have positions in which they have
something to lose, whether that is contracts or jobs. It takes courage. It is difficult to
question the systems, sometimes. I want you to know that your effort took me from...I
would never even have looked at it, honestly, if you had not brought me there and
then having spent about, seems like eight (8) months in this conversation, I am really
appreciative that we are able to put this Resolution forward. It will be interesting
what all the other counties make a choice to do, because I know the other counties
are all involved in the same thing. I just want to value our own team in the County
that does the elections as they are being directed by the State. I do not think there
is any intention to not do the right thing from here. They, probably like me, are
walking in faith. I appreciate that it should not be about faith, it should be about
accuracy and transparency. Thank you for calling it to our attention and I am strong
and wanting to be a part of what takes this step forward, as we communicate to our
State what we need to do. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: Thank everyone for being here. I mean we are
totally on the same page. It is all about being accountable to the people, that is the
bottom line for me. I understand the process. I know there is all these other options
and opportunities, but at the end of the day it has to be what is in favor for the people
who can feel competent and feel supportive of the process. This is just that step
forward, I appreciate the Resolution. I want you to know that we are totally there,
we are hearing you. It is on the table and we are moving in the right direction to hold
everyone accountable, but more importantly to be accountable to the people. That is
where I am at. I just wanted to say that and mahalo everyone for being here and we
look forward to furthering discussion, but we are moving in the right direction.
Mahalo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: I am in support of this Resolution. The
testimonies are always amazing and the fact that we have almost every seat filled
here gets me super excited. I get super pumped up because it is like...I dreamed of
sitting in this seat when I was first elected, that all these seats would be filled all the
time for every issue. That means the community is engaged and everything is not just
being done on this side of the street, but it is really being done on that side of the
street. That is what I viewed government as. It is not a system that we try to check
and balance with, it is our system, it is your system, it is our role for us to be part of
it, and this engagement gets me excited. The reality is that there is over one thousand
(1,000) bills that get proposed at the State level, and for any of you to follow all one
thousand (1,000) to make sure it is representing you is nearly impossible, so I want
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 15 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
to thank our staff here that helps us track these bills. Just at the State level and at
the Federal level, so we can always be accountable to the system that we have. I
received an email asking if I support or do not support this, and for the record I will
always speak of these topics that come through on the floor, so that the entire public
can hear. I never want to respond without getting information so that everyone will
not know. Just so you know, one of the testifiers came up asking how we felt, there
is a part of this process that enables us to have that discussion, so everyone can hear.
It is not just this "closed door" discussion. I really appreciate you asking the question,
and I am glad that this was brought up. If this was not going to be done through a
Resolution by Council Chair Rapozo, I am sure it would have come up by any of us,
because this is a very important topic for us to make sure that everything is
accountable and that we have this ability to do these checks and balances. Thank
you for being here. I really appreciate it.
Councilmember DeCosta: Before Chair closes, I wanted to reiterate
what Dr. Lyden brought to light here on the floor is that you and Ms. Smith, and I
believe you mentioned one more person was actually in the room verifying and
watching the County, and you were very...you did not use the word "impressed," but
you used the word "assured." You were assured that it was tallied correctly. I just
wanted to give credibility to our Elections Office here on Kaua`i, you folks witnessed
that there were some corrections going on with the way that they counted the ballots.
Correct? Thank you for that. Sometimes we get mislead with all types of
misinformation on social media and today you verified that you were watching the
tallying of the ballots and you folks were confident...is that a word that it was done
professionally? Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any further discussion?
I just want to say that I want to echo the mahalo to our Elections Office and I did
meet with Lyndon, Jade and Ralph, and there were some concerns from the 2020
Election as far as how we dealt with it. It was the first time it went to total mail-in
ballots, it was brand new. I am not here to defend anyone, I am just telling you what
I saw with my eyes, there was much improvement in the 2022 Election as far as
keeping track. The reason for this Resolution is that it is an issue of confidence, and
accountability as it relates to an audit. There is a lot more that are our County will
work on as it relates to how we handle the elections, but as far as the audit, I do not
believe there was any type of manipulation of machines here on Kauai. I just do not.
But I cannot defend that. I cannot defend it if we do not have an audit. If I do not
have a place to go back and say, "No, we did ten percent (10%), we did two (2) of the
precincts, and Honolulu did the same thing," and you know what, after the ten
percent (10%) of all the precincts the numbers all match, it is very hard to continue
that story of manipulation of the day. If we do not have that audit, if we do not have
the paper counting, I cannot defend it and then I cannot do anything to stop that
misinformation that is flowing, or what could be accurate information being floated
on the internet. We just cannot dispute it. That is all this is about. The problem is
the State who used this 1642 as the reason to convince the people of Hawai`i to accept
voter machines. It is the exact same State, yes, different people, but the same
government that is trying to take away what they put in to assure the people that
these machines work properly. That is what bothers me. The second thing that
bothers me is that—I am not an attorney. I always wanted to be an attorney, but my
scores were too high. It says, "Allows the Chief Elections Officer to rely on electronic
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 16 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
tallies created directly by the electronic voting systems if the Chief Elections Officer
conducts a post-election precertification audit," which means before you certify the
election, you have to do this audit, "of a random sample," random is one of the words
they want to remove, "of not less than ten percent (10%) of the precincts employing
electronic voting system to verify that the electronic tallies generated by the system
in those precincts equal hand tallies of the votes on the paper ballots generated by
the system." They want to take out hand tallies. Again, a fifth grader can
understand that. This Legislature is trying to remove that. To remove the one piece
of legislation that even helps us feel better about that reliability of these machines.
The more difficult thing is it is moving, it has already gone through a House
Committee and a Senate Committee with no "noes," all ayes. My concern is this...we
have done resolutions on this table before that went to the State and got ignored. The
four (4) of us were in Washington D.C. meeting with other counties throughout the
country, but we also met with our sister counties of the other islands, and they were
shocked that this was even going through. They did not even know. Have you heard
any media piece either in the newspaper or television about this issue? Anyone? They
have made it...they are doing this under the radar and no one knows. Not one piece
of coverage. Enough that even our sister...and if not for Ralph and your team here
letting us know, we would not have known. All we know next election this would
have been done. The people in the mainland that I spoke to from small counties to
big counties, cities, they were shocked that we were even talking about this. It is an
embarrassment for our State to even think that the people are that stupid, so my
challenge to all of you...this is going to pass today. A copy of this Resolution will go
to the Governor, Senator Kouchi, Representatives Nakamura and Morikawa, and
Mayor Kawakami, and probably should have amended this to add Luke, but I am just
going to hand it to him before he leaves today.
Ms. Jauch: Sakai.
Council Chair Rapozo: Excuse me.
Ms. Jauch: Sakai, he is the one who introduced it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Who.
Councilmember Cowden: Scott.
Council Chair Rapozo: Saiki.
Councilmember Cowden: Saiki.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will make sure we get it out to every single
representative and senator. But my point is this, they do not care. That is why it is
important, the challenge is for this...I do not think we had this many people in here
for a long time, you all need to contact Kouchi, Nakamura, Morikawa, and Evslin.
You folks need to tell them what you told us. That is where that happens, not here.
Ms. Jauch: I had my law firm do it twice. They ignore us.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 17 FEBRUARY 16, 2023
Council Chair Rapozo: I did not mean to upset you. My point is only
the people can change their minds and if they move forward with this, if these two
(2) bills pass, then it is the people and us to make sure that every voter in the State
understands who screwed the people. That is my personal opinion and I do not speak
for these folks, but this is just how I feel. This is serious. This is probably one of the
important resolutions I have ever introduced in my career, because it impacts the
voting integrity, the election integrity of our State. I cannot imagine anything else
more important. This is the fundamental basis of putting us here. I will end with
this...maybe I should not be here, maybe I lost the election. I do not know. Maybe
the machine has screw up. A mentor told me once, it is better to lose the right way
than to win the wrong way, and I stand by that. With that, motion is to approve. Roll
call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2023-21 was then put, and carried by
the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Carvalho, Chock, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kaneshiro TOTAL— 5,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kuali`i TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Five (5) ayes.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 12:30 p.m.
Res s ectfully submitted,
•41
JADE . .•UNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County ' erk
:dmc