HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/04/2023 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
OCTOBER 4, 2023
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Presiding Officer Ross Kagawa at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite
201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, October 4, 2023, at 8:46 a.m., after which the
following Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Addison Bulosan
Honorable Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr.
Honorable Felicia Cowden (present at 8:58 a.m.)
Honorable Bill DeCosta
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i (present at 8:56 a.m.)
Excused: Honorable Mel Rapozo
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
September 6, 2023 Council Meeting
September 6, 2023 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2901, Bill No. 2902,
Bill No. 2903, and Bill No. 2904
September 20, 2023 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2906
Councilmember Carvalho moved to approve the Minutes, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Presiding Officer Kagawa: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to approve the Minutes, as circulated, was then put, and carried
be a vote of 4:0:3 (Councilmember Cowden, Council Vice Chair Kuali i, and
Council Chair Rapozo were excused).
Presiding Officer Kagawa: The motion is carried.
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: We have items on the
Consent Calendar.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2023-215 Communication (09/25/2023) from Councilmember Kagawa and
Councilmember Cowden, transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Urging
COUNCIL MEETING 2 OCTOBER 4, 2023
The State Department Of Health To Continue To Contract With American Medical
Response To Provide Emergency-Medical Services In The County Of Kaua`i.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Currently, we have five (5) registered
speakers for this item. The first registered speaker is Julian Dewberry, followed by
Doug Chin.
(Note: C 2023-215 was taken off from the Consent Calendar.)
Councilmember Carvalho moved to receive C 2023-215 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Bulosan.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
DOUGLAS CHIN: Councilmember Kagawa, will it be okay if
Mr. Dewberry and I address the Council at the same time?
Presiding Officer Kagawa: Sure, no problem.
Mr. Chin: Thank you, sir. I am Doug Chin, I am one of
the attorneys that represents Falck USA and we are here to testify...
Presiding Officer Kagawa: Can you hold on for a quick second. I apologize
for interrupting you. We missed an item. Can we have an approval of the agenda?
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Bulosan moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Carvalho, and carried be a vote of 4:0:3
(Councilmember Cowden, Council Vice Chair Kuali i, and Council Chair
Rapozo were excused).
Presiding Officer Kagawa: Mr. Chin, you may begin again.
Mr. Chin: No problem. I am Doug Chin. I am one of the
attorneys that represents Falck USA. With me is Julian Dewberry, he is a
representative of Falck USA and we are here to testify on the Consent Calendar, as
well as the Resolution regarding the Department of Health (DOH) contract. I just
wanted to say that the reason why I got to know Falck USA, was a couple months ago
when the request for proposals (RFPs) came out by DOH. Falck USA approached me
to be able to help them with the bid submission, and I took a great interest in it
because I had some former experience in county government. I knew how important
first responders are and particularly the ambulance contract for the different
counties. For what it is worth, I wanted to say that during my time with Falck USA,
I have been very impressed with the leadership, the organization, the quality of
services that they provide, and was very proud to be able to be part of that submission.
As it turned out, DOH had awarded the contract to Falck USA, and since then we
understand there has been a protest that has been filed by the incumbent. We want
to respect that protest process. We respect the fact that this Resolution is on the table
COUNCIL MEETING 3 OCTOBER 4, 2023
right now and we want to acknowledge that whatever happens...we understand what
happens, but what we did want to say is this: 1) I want everyone here to understand
that if you look at the RFP, it was not a low-bid contract. In other words, it was not
just awarded to whomever offered the least amount of money, rather, this was a type
of procurement contract that considered a variety of factors. Some of those factors
included the quality of services that would be provided by the different bidders as
well as the financial stability of the companies. Therefore, those were the factors, if
you look at the RFP that were considered by the State in considering who to make
the award to. 2) We understand the Resolution may go forward, we understand that
DOH will do whatever they do, but if the contract ends up with Falck USA and is
awarded there, we just wanted to share these few things: 1) There will be no reduction
in services, particularly the Advanced Life Support (ALS) services and we wanted to
be specific to that, because there has been some false information about that. That is
not part of Falck's bid. There will be no reduction in services. 2) Falck USA will
honor the terms and conditions of the current union association contract, meaning
anyone who is in the current system, the current union association contract, if they
want to come over, they are more than welcome to come over. In fact, we need them
to come over and want to work with them, as well as the incumbent to have a
transition that is smooth and proper for the county. We are keeping our remarks
together, so Mr. Dewberry and I are here to answer any questions that you have.
Thank you so much.
Presiding Officer Kagawa: Thank you. Are there any clarifying
questions? Councilmember DeCosta, go ahead.
Councilmember DeCosta: The most important question I want to ask
you is are you folks planning to upgrade any of the equipment that is currently on
Kaua`i? I noticed you did not mention anything about that, and I wanted to know
about the level of care provided. You mentioned that you folks are going to ask for all
the same workers to go over and work with you. Are you planning to staff the
ambulance with the same quality of workers and the same certification that those
workers have currently? From what I understand, many of them can provide
extensive care on the ambulance. Are you planning to carry out the same extensive
care on your ambulance?
Mr. Chin: The quick answer is yes. I am going to let
Mr. Dewberry address that for the Council, so you can hear from him directly.
JULIAN DEWBERRY: Absolutely. As it relates to the level of care,
we would continue the ALS staffing, that would be part of this contract. In the past,
when we had taken over an agreement, we welcomed over ninety plus percent (90%+)
of the incumbent workforce. Anyone who would like to come over to Falck USA,
should we be successful, is welcome to join us and would have the priority hiring
process. As it relates to the equipment, we have made our proposal for what we
offered. We had a minimum equipment list that was provided as part of the RFP
response, we made that, and then as we go into negotiations once more, once the
participation has concluded, if there is a preference for something else, we would be
able to go into that and we would meet whatever the current requirements or
preferences are for any of the major durable medical equipment, ventilators, etcetera.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember DeCosta: The current contract that you are going to
honor, how long is that?
Mr. Dewberry: Are you talking about the union contracts?
Councilmember DeCosta: You stated you will bring over the contract
workers, correct?
Mr. Dewberry: Yes.
Councilmember DeCosta: How long is that contract for?
Mr. Dewberry: I am not aware of what the current length of
the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) is, but we would honor it to its expiration
and then if in the event it were coming up, we would work to ideally get an extension
of that in place, so that we can negotiate.
Councilmember DeCosta: Since we are talking about accepting the
current contract, what is Falck's track record when they accept other companies to
come work for them, in their union contract, and when that is terminated after a
three-year period or whatever period it is, what is you track record of going back to
negotiating and honoring the workers to have another ability to work for you?
Mr. Dewberry: To provide a little bit of context, when we took
over the Alameda County contract in Northern California, that is a unionized
workforce, we extended that current agreement and then went into negotiations. We
have since had more negotiations as the CBAs have expired. We have been able to
extend that and have a cordial relationship with our workforce. San Diego, when we
took that over, that was also coming towards the end of its contract expiration for the
CBA. We extended that, and have since negotiated a new collective bargaining
agreement with that workforce as well.
Mr. Chin: Was that ninety percent (90%)? What was the
percentage of people that were...
Mr. Dewberry: Yes, in San Diego, which was the most recent,
that was a ninety plus percent (90%+), I can provide you the specific figure later, but
over ninety percent (90%) of the workforce chose to come over to Falck USA after that
contract was executed.
Mr. Chin: And that makes a lot of sense because this is
a specialized service and experience that is provided by the incumbent workforce that
works there. When there is a new contract that is awarded, we want those people to
come to work with us, because they are so necessary and important for the
community.
Mr. Dewberry: I come to you from Falck USA as a
representative and administrative role. I started with the organization as an entry-
level Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) over ten (10) years ago, so I have been
provided ample opportunity to move up within the organization. I know it from an
COUNCIL MEETING 5 OCTOBER 4, 2023
entry-level EMT and the position I am in today, and some of our different operations
across the country, therefore, I have a great appreciation for the goodwill and the
support that this workforce has and I respect that passion. I just want you to
understand that I recognize that from a first-hand point.
Presiding Officer Kagawa: Are there further questions? Seeing none,
thank you.
Mr. Chin: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Dexter Kishida, followed
by Peter Beemer.
(Council Vice Chair was noted as present.)
Presiding Officer Kagawa: With that, I will hand over the chairmanship
to Council Vice Chair Kuali`i.
DEXTER KISHIDA: I apologize, Council. I will be commenting on
the next resolution relating to the Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle (CRB).
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Peter Beemer, followed by Tina Hamayasu.
PETER BEEMER: Aloha, everyone. My name is Peter Beemer,
and I am a Mobile Intensive Care Technician (MICT) paramedic with the American
Medical Response (AMR) for the last twelve (12) years. I guess we are speaking for
the same level of this Resolution. I have been with AMR for twelve (12) years on
Kaua`i, I also worked in the O`ahu operations, I worked in California for two (2)
different fire departments there, Wildland and EMS services. Being able to come
home and work at home, where I was born and raised, has been the opportunity of a
lifetime. I had the support of the entire AMR team for the last twelve (12) years
through different events/major catastrophes including flooding, multiple different
road closures, which I live on the North Shore, Ha`ena. I have had the back of AMR,
being the "boots on the ground" by myself out there, but knowing my entire company
from my management team to the other "boots on the ground" on the other side of the
island, having my back ready to do anything they need to support our community.
Everyone that is involved in this AMR community or our team at AMR, most of them
have been on Kauai most of their lives, their families are on Kaua`i, their extended
community, their `ohana, most of you have probably had interactions at AMR. We
have forty plus (40+) years of exemplary service throughout Hawai`i. Having the
opportunity to have...without any information and coming out of nowhere, a company
to come and try to uproot everything that we built and depend on is scary. I have a
wife and three (3) kids, one (1) in college and two (2) in elementary school. I know
they speak about trying to keep this contract, but if you do any type of general
investigation about this company, they have had a lot of...I do not know how to say it
properly, but there is a lot of negativity around the company and there are a lot of
people that do not agree with the way they run their company. They are also from
another entity that we do not know. A lot of people from off-island coming in and
changing the way of life that we live here, that we have all done our entire lives is
COUNCIL MEETING 6 OCTOBER 4, 2023
scary for me and for longevity of my life, my family, and my career. I just want to
thank AMR for everything they have done. They always had my back, kept us
included with information that needs to be shared with us, the community with any
type of catastrophe, any type of event, we have been involved with. I worked closely
with most of you here. I have been through two (2) major catastrophes and was
presented with awards by Councilmember Carvalho. I have worked with
Councilmember Cowden, and we have always been able to come through and come
with a resolution of positivity at the end of any type of catastrophe.AMR is a company
I would be happy to work with for the rest of my career. Thank you for your time.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Tina Hamayasu.
TINA HAMAYASU: Hi, good morning. My name is Tina
Hamayasu, I am a paramedic for AMR. I was born and raised on O`ahu, and I had
the opportunity to work, through AMR's operations, in every single county as a flight
paramedic, initially, as well as now on the ground for the County of Kaua`i. Having
been on the flight side, I got to experience the different operations in all the different
islands, starting at Hawai`i Island, the County of Maui, as well as here. AMR goes
pretty deep throughout the entire state and that collaboration throughout the state
is tremendous and important. Throughout COVID-19, they remained upstanding and
able to dedicate services throughout and "not miss a beat" when we needed it most,
when resources were scarce. I was one of those medics that flew throughout the
islands and worked closely with AMR to service the people and the communities
during a very scary time. It is good to be home. It is good to serve the people of Kaua`i.
I do not think there is another company that could do what AMR does in the way that
it does with its roots here in Kaua`i. The community, like what my coworker said, we
have families, friends, and friends that become family here, and I think that is
important because we know how to care for the people, we know how the community
works, we know the relationships, and those are very important. Thank you for your
time, for this Resolution, and for your support. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Next registered speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: No further registered speakers.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there anyone else wishing to testify?
KEAVY BRENNAN: Good morning, my name is Keavy Brennan.
Thank you to the esteemed and honorable County Councilmembers for having me
here. I am a paramedic on the island of Kaua`i, a constituent of the Kalaheo area. I
have been here, born and raised, Kaua`i High School graduate, I have no qualms
working with AMR. They are a great company. Thank you. That is it.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any further testimony? Please come
forward.
COUNCIL MEETING 7 OCTOBER 4, 2023
CHRISTOPHER WAIT: My name is Christopher Wait. I have been an
employee for AMR for the past twenty-eight (28) years, been on the islands for
fifty-eight (58) years. I want to say a huge thanks to the County for putting this
Resolution together, it shows you have our back and we have your backs, and we
appreciate what you are doing. There will be a lot of redundancies said, but basically,
I do not know if I should read from this, but I do have a testimony to read. I was
dismayed at the nontransparency of how the decision was made. For the people that
are directly impacted by this decision...it is all of us, it is the county people, all the
families, and this was a closed-door decision made by the State, and I believe it was
an erroneous decision for them to make that and not include...I do not think there
was one (1) elected official that was aware of the decision until after it was made, and
that is wrong. You folks should have a direct impact on how the companies are vetted
in this. I am calling for a transparency component to the process, starting by
nullifying the DOH decision. I would also like to see an ad hoc committee created, if
we can possibly put together a committee of State officials, you folks—County
officials, because you folks are directly impacted by this. A lot of people say, "it is a
State thing." It is not a state thing, it is a county thing. We are the ones who must
bear the burden of this change of service. The change of services is huge, you just
have no idea. I got here late. I do not if anyone has talked about Basic Life Support
(BLS) versus Advanced Life Support (ALS) and the procedures involved. For there
possibly to be a downgrade is a shame. There will impacts. I would love to see a
change in how the companies are vetted. It should not come from only two (2) to three
(3) people, and a consulting company from the mainland. This just does not make
sense. Economically, by keeping the workforce in place, families will remain, money
made by employees and company will be circulated here enhancing spending and
helping the local economy. We like that, do we not?
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Sir, that is your time.
Mr. Wait: Okay. I have a really important testimony to
read by a person that we picked up fifteen (15) years ago, who fell off a cliff.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We accept testimony from people who are not
here in writing.
Mr. Wait: Can I read it for her?
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: No.
Mr. Wait: Okay. She was attesting...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: You can submit it.
Mr. Wait: Okay, I will submit it. She was attesting to
ALS service. She had to be intubated out at Ke`e Beach...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you for your testimony. Is there
anyone else wishing to testify on Consent Calendar C 2023-215?
COUNCIL MEETING 8 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Kagawa: Point of Order?
Council Vice Chair Kualii: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Is there any chance we can tie in the
Resolution to go a lot quicker and we can get them out of here.
Council Vice Chair Kualii: They are testifying now.
Councilmember Kagawa: Can we have the Resolution come up out of
order, sooner?
Council Vice Chair Kualii: We have others doing presentations.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you.
ERIC ISHIDA: Mahalo for the chance to give my testimony
for AMR. I am Eric Ishida, supervisor for two (2) stations, located on the South and
Westside of Kauai. I have thirty-six (36) years of EMS experience, and
twenty-six (26) years as being current supervisor. I am a paramedic and a Registered
Nurse (RN) also. I am proud to be working with AMR. Some of the things that AMR
has put in place in Hawaii, such as Hawaii Life Flight interisland and (inaudible)
services. We also partner with Kauai Fire Department and the Agency on Elderly
Affairs to provide fall prevention services and home visits. (inaudible) one (1) quick
response vehicle. We also put in three (3) EMS child passenger safety stations. We
also have in place the Emergency Vehicle Maintenance Program and those are just
some of the things that AMR has done. Another thing we did was AMR put in a
(inaudible) medic program which provides basic and advanced level of care for
parades, concerts, private events, or locations that vehicles cannot access quickly as
first responders. Some of the things that we have done during the Hanalei Bridge
closures, which is a fully stocked ambulance on the Northend to ensure emergency
services. In 2018, after an epic rainfall and flooding, embedded a fully equipment
ambulance in Wainiha. We were also in full force taking care of patients during the
recent wild fires on Maui. We were in full force during Hurricane `Iniki. In April 2018,
through the epic rain of flooding, which closed the Wainiha access, we positioned a
helicopter in the Lihu`e to extricate patients from the inundated inaccessible North
Shore of Kauai. One of the most important things we live by is aloha, it is not just
be opinion. In a reassessment of Hawaii Emergency Medical Services, the team were
impressed by the uniform, respect, support, commitment, and good humor of all the
stockholders. Aloha makes a difference. Thank you for considering a Resolution in
support of AMR continued service. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kualii: Is there any further testimony?
TITO VILLANUEVA: Good morning, Chair and Councilmembers.
My name is Tito Villanueva. I am the Operations Manager for AMR Kauai. I have
been with AMR for thirty-one (31) years. Prior to that, I was in the United States of
America (U.S.A.) Navy. I served in the Navy. I attended school. I worked for the
Kauai Economic Opportunity (KEO). I was their Immigrant Services Coordinator,
COUNCIL MEETING 9 OCTOBER 4, 2023
and then I joined AMR. Before I go on, I want to thank you for introducing and
considering this Resolution in support of AMR to continue the services that we
provide for Kaua`i. To add to what Eric was testifying to, one of the things that
standout about AMR is our standing relationship with first responders, with the
hospitals, and with the community. We work well with everyone to provide
emergency services for our island. We partner with the Fire Department to do an
injury prevention program, we have a fall prevention program, and we go out into the
community once per week to visit homes. We work with the hospitals with their
(inaudible) program. We work with them with the stroke prevention program, we
work with the Kaua`i Emergency Management Agency (KEMA) during their center's
activation. Most of the time, we have one of our paramedics, who is part of the
incident management team, also served as a safety officer during the KEMA
activation. Often, we have a lot of rain in Hanalei on the North Shore of this island,
which is close to the Hanalei Bridge, in which we deploy ambulance to Hanalei with
anticipation of the closure of the bridge. We not only deploy, but we also staff the
emergency operations center. We work with the airport and support their annual fire
exercises by training them, same with the Fire Department. We work closely with
them. As far as equipment is concerned, we have the latest equipment for our
ambulance services. Our equipment includes videos, the latest cardiac monitors...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. That is your time.
Councilmember Cowden has a clarifying question for you.
Councilmember Cowden: Did you say that you are the boss?
Mr. Villanueva: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: To your knowledge, has the new provider that
has been selected...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden, you are now asking
a new question, not a clarifying question. You clarified that he is the boss, so what
else do you need to clarify?
Councilmember Cowden: I wanted to clarify...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: You wanted to get more information from him
because he is the boss. You are going to have to ask those questions offline. Thank
you. Anyone else in the public wishing to testify?
SPEEDY BAILEY: Good morning, Council. Speedy Bailey. I am
the Regional Director for AMR in Hawai`i. I have been in EMS for forty-eight (48)
years and we have had this contract for forty-four (44) years. You heard from our
team...and thank you very much for this opportunity and support over all the years
that we have been doing work, not just for the County of Kaua`i, but for Maui, O`ahu,
and Hawai`i Island. What you heard is that AMR comes to the table with a whole
system that we developed over many years of work in every community. When Iniki
hit, we brought folks from Maui and O`ahu here to relieve people that were needing
to take care of their families—that was very successful. During the wildfires and
COUNCIL MEETING 10 OCTOBER 4, 2023
during the floods, we brought helicopters in, so we could have access. We have an air
program, which every day takes sick patients from here to care on O`ahu. We are
fully staffed on Kauai and Maui, have always been throughout our tenure. I am very
proud of that. You cannot say that because most companies are short medics. No
COVID-19 excuses here. We upped staff in airports across the state, during COVID,
we did harbors. We responded, had solutions, we are committed—that is what we
put on the table. I will tell you a story that happened on August 8th in Lahaina. We
had medics going into the fire, we transported thirty-two (32) patients that day,
twenty (20) burns, took them to Maui Memorial, that was the 9-1-1 system. From
there, our private ambulances took them to the airport where they met our planes
and flew them to Honolulu, where our ambulances then drove them to the burn center
at Straub Medical Center and Queen's Medical Center. We took eight (8) critical
patients off Maui in eight (8) hours. We did twelve (12) patients during the entire
event, so there were patients coming from Hawai`i Island and Kauai during that
critical time. No other company can do that. I challenge anyone to do that. The
medivac service that we run on Maui was not in the bid. I do not know what is going
to happen on December 28th, when our contract expires. That is the big question.
But those are the things that we bring to the table. We are committed and with a
fully staffed dedicated crew of paramedics. Thank you for your support, your
continued support, and you have our commitment to make all the necessary
improvements as we move forward. When we started this, there were three (3)
ambulances on Kaua`i, but we brought in three (3) more since 1990, through the
advocating communities and the state. Mahalo.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify at this time? If you testify now, then you do not testify later.
SHERRI CUMMINGS: For the record, Sherri Cummings, Malama
Anahola. I have a significant other who is an EMT/fire fighter for airport rescue. He
is not able to be present, right now in his capacity, he is training future firefighters
for county and state. This came up on the radar, I do not know too much about it, so
I asked the question, what are the pros and cons of AMR losing its opportunity to
service the State of Hawai`i, and he responded there are no pros, only cons. Just
reading some of the points, and I think it is important for laypeople like us who do
not understand what level of care we will receive as compared to what we received in
the past. He said, "Sherri, the level of care will drop because of the scope of the
practice." He continued to say that the Department of Health (DOH) wanted to drop
the level of care from ALS to BLS. What is ALS versus BLS? I do not know if others
have covered that, I am sure they did, but just for the laypeople, ALS is Advanced
Life Support, taking care of serious medical programs; intravenous (IV), punctures to
the skin, heart monitoring, continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP), respiratory
emergencies, situations using inhalers, etcetera. The level of care is going to drop
from ALS to BLS. We ask ourselves what is BLS? BLS is basic life support. All they
are going be doing for us is oxygen and small basic care. For me as a past baseball
player, I had a serious condition in Kilauea, EMT was called. What happened to me
was that I had no electrolytes and locked up. Water could not save me, IV had to. By
the time they got me in there, I did two (2)bags of IV and they shot me with morphine,
because the pain was excruciating. Now, we live in rural areas such as Ke`e Beach
and if something happens, the nearest place is Kapa`a. How do we address painful
COUNCIL MEETING 11 OCTOBER 4, 2023
situations? They cannot administer these types of medication for the people. If
nothing changes for AMR employees, they will lose their opportunity for employment
here and the county will lose, because what others provide to the community will be
way less than what we received throughout our times.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: That is your time. Thank you. Is there
anyone else wishing to testify? Members, we are voting on a motion to receive. I
would ask that you hold your discussion until we consider the Resolution later.
The motion to receive C 2023-215 for the record was then put, and carried by
a vote of 6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Can you read the next item on our Consent
Calendar?
C 2023-216 Communication (09/26/2023) from Councilmember Bulosan and
Councilmember DeCosta, transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution
Urging State Officials To Prioritize Funding And Immediate Implementation Of A
Rapid Response Management Effort To Safeguard Kaua`i From The Impacts Caused
By The Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one (1) registered speaker on this
item?
Councilmember Carvalho moved to receive C 2023-216 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Kagawa.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The registered speaker is Dexter Kishida.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Kishida: Good morning, Council. Dexter Kishida,
Deputy to the Chairperson at Hawai`i Department of Agriculture. Thank you for
considering this Resolution. The Department and the Governor's Administration is
in fully support. I will be around for the Resolution to discuss further, but it is timely,
and so I do hope you consider this Resolution. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there anyone else wishing to testify now on
the Resolution?
ANNY BRUCH: Good morning. My name is Anny Bruch. I am
the Vice President for Hawai`i Farmers Union United (HFUU), at the state level, and
also the Treasurer for the Hawai`i Farmers Union Kaua`i Chapter. I really thank
everyone here for having this Resolution. HFUU has this on Kaua`i as its priority,
because our chapters in O`ahu is suffering through an infestation and what that
means is O`ahu farmers when they find Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle (CRB), they
cannot get any help because O`ahu has now been labeled as infested. Farmers there
cannot get any help from HDOA or the different agencies. We, on Kaua`i, do not have
sufficient resources to address CRB. HFUU has reached out to the Kauai Invasive
COUNCIL MEETING 12 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Species Committee (KISC) CRB response team. We have been disturbing traps,
providing information about CRB in all of our meetings, but we cannot wait for the
state to do something. We cannot wait for the University of Hawai`i to send their team
to Kaua`i, we cannot wait for others to do something, Kaua`i has to do something
about this if we want to make sure we do not become O`ahu. My question is, what
can Kauai do? Yes, we can ask the State to do that, I am so happy that Dexter is
present and that they want to pass the permanent rule. Right now, they are putting
in a temporary rule so we do not have movements of organic materials going other
places from O`ahu. Not too long ago they said containers of mulch to Maui...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Ms. Bruch: ...they were thinking that they could check
containers full of mulch for CRB, but that is impossible to be one hundred
percent (100%) sure. We need a rule that makes sure there is nothing coming out of
O`ahu to Kaua`i, Maui, or Hawaii Island, if we are going to have a chance at
containing this. Thank you for having this Resolution, but what can we do here on
Kaua`i?What resources do we have? HFUU is ready to support, we have already been
doing it with our volunteers, in our meetings, but let us see if we can do something
and not wait for others to help us, but have us do it ourselves. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. The communication we are
considering now is on the Resolution relating to CRB. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify on this Resolution currently?
UELI MULLER: My name is Ueli Muller. I am a member of the
HFUU and a couple of weeks ago, we had the chance to talk to a delegation from
KISC, as well as the Rapid Response Team from O`ahu. We were informed as to the
situation there. We also know that they have found the beetle on our island and the
situation was that there were two (2) sites known, one here at the harbor, Wailua, as
well as the North side. I volunteered to assist KISC by providing traps to our
members. We have some members who already set them up. We also have provided
some traps to the Tropical Fruit Grower Association. Brand new information this
week, we found beetles way different size, we found them here on the mauka side of
the highway in Puhi and we also found them in Wailua Homesteads, which is new
information that has not been published on the CRB website where they have
information on where the traps are and where the beetles are found. I have posted
that information to the CRB response team, as well as the local KISC. It is important
that we quickly work something out because it is spreading. I believe this is not new
because it is already spreading so far, so this has probably bigger impact on us and I
really hope we can find a solution here on the island. Mahalo.
Councilmember DeCosta: I have a clarifying question.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Since you mentioned spreading, do you have
information, educate me on how do you believe it is being spread?
COUNCIL MEETING 13 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Mr. Muller: I am no specialist on this, but the CRB
Response Team told us that most of the spreading is from green waste. Green waste
being mulch, compost, and leaf matter.
Councilmember DeCosta: How do you think CRB is coming from O`ahu
to Kauai?
Mr. Muller: The first found was in the harbor, so it
probably came with the containers. We found infected mulch and compost in the
backs of local hardware stores. Well, not me, but "they" found larvae of beetles in
bags.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there anyone else in the audience wishing
to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to receive C 2023-216 for the record was then put, and carried by
a vote of 6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion carries. The next item, please.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2023-217 Communication (09/11/2023) from Councilmember DeCosta and
Councilmember Kagawa, transmitting for Council consideration, A Bill For An
Ordinance Amending Chapter 19, Article 3, Section 19-3.2, Kaua`i County Code 1987,
As Amended, Relating To Playing Fees At the Wailua Golf Course, reestablishing the
playing fees at the Wailua Golf Course due to current market conditions, the high
demand for play, the significant cost of operations, and the condition of the Wailua
Golf Course as compared to other options on Kaua`i.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This is the Communication; the relating Bill
will come up later on the agenda.
Councilmember Cowden moved to receive C 2023-217 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions?
Councilmember Kagawa: Can we call the golf manager up?
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This is just the Communication.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, it is on bills for first reading, but I just
wanted to ask them questions now...
COUNCIL MEETING 14 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This is just the Communication.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: First Reading will come up later.
Councilmember Kagawa: They are here, so I will ask my questions now
and then they can head back to work.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Sure.
Councilmember Kagawa: Do you have any comments from the golf
course, management, staff? This mainly affects the non-resident fees, which is less
than half the price of any other private course we have; Kiahuna, Puakea, etcetera.
There have been complaints about those costs and they asked why Wailua is so cheap
compared to their prices and they are suffering from not having enough play to make
a profit.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
DANIEL URWILER, Director of the Golf Course Operations & Maintenance:
My name is Dan Urwiler. The proposed rates
are fine. I still think the non-residents is a little high. There is an item in the back,
on the last page item "I" talks about the driving range balls.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Mr. Urwiler: The driving range is operated by our
concession for the pro shop.
Councilmember Kagawa: What do we need to do?
Mr. Urwiler: Take it out.
Councilmember Kagawa: Eliminate it? Okay.
PATRICK T. PORTER, Director of Parks & Recreation: Pat Porter,
Director of Parks & Recreation.
Councilmember Kagawa: If we need to take something out, we need to
hear from you folks.
Mr. Porter: We can do some housekeeping on the
proposed draft bill.
Councilmember Kagawa: If you can work with Council Services Staff.
Mr. Porter: We agree to exploring the fee increase. The
goal of this is to increase the fees, so we get the right amount of revenue without
COUNCIL MEETING 15 OCTOBER 4, 2023
losing play. Finding that balance is where we want to be. We do not know what that
balance is, but as an example, previously in 2009, was the last time the fees were
increased. We think it is time to review this and look at it. What happened in 2009
was that the non-resident fees went up to certain...
Councilmember Kagawa: It had to be after 2009, because I was first
elected in 2012, and I remember making a change to the fees after I was elected.
Mr. Porter: The fees were increased in May 2009. The
highest it went up to was seventy dollars ($70) for non-resident on
weekends/holidays, and then what happened was the play went down a lot, so in 2010,
the Council revisited it and dropped the non-resident rate to increase play. I think
whatever we settle on as the price, just so long as we are open to revisiting it later.
Councilmember Kagawa: If this goes into effect in January, what would
be a reasonable time to expect to see a comparison of the prior year? Would it be
March? That is exactly what Councilmember DeCosta and I are aiming at—we want
to generate more revenue for the golf course that reduces the subsidy. Costs have
gone up and these rates have not been touched for eight (8) to nine (9) years ago. We
have been touching the monthly play, the daily play of locals as well, they are all
going up a little bit, but the main hit was to the non-resident.
Mr. Porter: Yes. Reviewing it in six (6) months and then a
year out would be good.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. That would be great. Thank you for
being here, Dan.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Since you mentioned the non-resident play,
and I am not a golfer, I have not even visited Wailua Golf Course, but I have been
hearing that Wailua Golf Course is a state-of-the-art golf range and "World Class,"
since you talked about the drop on non-resident play, why does non-resident want to
play at the Wailua Golf Course?
Mr. Urwiler: It is a great golf course.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Mr. Urwiler: It is right up there.
Councilmember DeCosta: Tell me what types of things`does Wailua Golf
Course have? Do they have awards? How does it measure up to other golf courses?
Mr. Urwiler: It is in great condition, we try to keep it that
way, and people want to play. Whether they are coming from somewhere else or from
here, they want to come and play, so that is why we are there for.
COUNCIL MEETING 16 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember DeCosta: Do you think with the increase, they would
still want to play at this "World Class" golf course?
Mr. Urwiler: Yes.
Councilmember DeCosta: Okay, thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Members, are there any further questions?
Thank you. While the rules are still suspended, do we have anyone signed up to
testify? Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any further discussion?
The motion to receive C 2023-217 for the record was then put, and carried by
a vote of 6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion carries. Next item, please.
C 2023-218 Communication (09/15/2023) from the Director of Parks &
Recreation and Todd Ozaki, Executive Assistant to the Mayor, requesting agenda
time to discuss the use of the County's Self-Insurance Fund in the amount of
$1,260,000.00 as a result of flood damage caused by a fire sprinkler discharge on
June 18, 2023. Anticipated work items include and may not be limited to:
• Water extraction; furniture and appliance removal; tear out of
damaged flooring and drywall; hazardous materials testing;
sanitation; framing and drywall installation; insulation; floor
molding; concrete floor treatment; painting, etcetera; and
• Office cubicles and partitions; office furniture, cabinetry, assemble,
and attachment; electrical relocation as needed; and
• Data drops; network switches and racks; and fiber backhaul to data
center.
Councilmember Carvalho moved to receive C 2023-218 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions from the
Administration? Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for meeting with me individually.
For the benefit of the public, how long do you anticipate the total displacement time
for the engineering and the Building Division relative to this flood?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
TODD OZAKI, Executive Assistant to the Mayor: Six (6) months.
COUNCIL MEETING 17 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: Another six (6) months, and it has been
three (3) months, so it will be nine (9) months?
Mr. Ozaki: Nine (9) months total, yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Is the County doing the work?
Mr. Ozaki: The work will be contracted to a third party.
Councilmember Cowden: The one million two hundred sixty thousand
dollars ($1,260,000), I am assuming that we have already been spending some of that,
right? We have paid for it and we are reimbursing ourselves, is that correct?
Mr. Ozaki: As far as what has been paid so far, there are
two (2) phases. The first phase is the mitigation portion, so to clean it up, make sure
it is safe, breathing conditions, check for mold, remove damage infrastructure and
furniture, etcetera. That phase has been completed, so that represented roughly one
hundred thirty thousand dollars ($130,000).
Councilmember Cowden: Have we paid that already?
Mr. Ozaki: It is being processed now, yes. That number
is set. The remainder is for the rebuilding of the office space.
Councilmember Cowden: When we are building this space, will it be a
return to what we had or are we adapting for the present and the future?
Mr. Ozaki: Good question. We are adapting for the
future. The last renovation for this space was over thirty (30) years ago, and at that
time it was build for "pen and paper" type of world and that has changed quite a bit
since then, so we are taking this as an opportunity to update a lot of the workspace
and data infrastructure.
Councilmember Cowden: How many data losses did we have? Were we
able to retain material that we needed or have we lost critical information?
Mr. Ozaki: To the best of my knowledge, we retained
nearly everything. If there was any loss, other than furniture, as far as data, etcetera,
we were able to recover everything.
Councilmember Cowden: Does everyone have a new place for now and
is that working out and would the community have the similar level of services as
prior?
Mr. Ozaki: Correct.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Those are my questions.
COUNCIL MEETING 18 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there further questions? Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: The agenda item talks about the
Self-Insurance Fund and using one million two hundred sixty thousand
dollars ($1,260,000) for water extraction, furniture, drywall, etcetera. What was the
total damage? Was the total damage higher than what is stated?
Mr. Ozaki: Bigger than one million two hundred sixty
thousand dollars ($1,260,000)? No. It is less than that.
Councilmember Kagawa: The one million two hundred sixty thousand
dollars ($1,260,000) covers the entire clean-up and everything?
Mr. Ozaki: The clean-up, restoration, and the updates,
yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Do we have insurance to pay for that?
Mr. Ozaki: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Is it covering one hundred percent (100%)?
Mr. Ozaki: There is the Self-Insurance Fund, which is
what we can pull funds from and then we have our insurance that we also do a claim
on as well. The claim itself is fairly dynamic at the moment, because we do not have
a contractor in place for the reconstruction portion. We can ,continue to add to the
claim.
REIKO MATSUYAMA, Managing Director: Good morning, Reiko
Matsuyama. The Self-Insurance Fund is a separate fund; we have General Fund, we
have Solid Waste Fund, Golf Course Fund. The Self-Insurance Fund is the fund that
we fund every year at a tune of one million dollars ($1,000,000) and it does not lapse
every year, so if the balance ever drops, the next budget will just replenish to the
million. It is about one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) currently,
so we would draw down on that fund, and then we would just bring it back up to one
million dollars ($1,000,000) in the next budget.
Councilmember Kagawa: Would the insurance money "kick back" to us?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes, insurance proceeds will help us a bit. It
will not cover the entire one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000), but
it will help us get back to a little bit "playing field" neutral.
Councilmember Kagawa: How do we ensure that we reduce the chances
of this happening again? It seems like not only did we have to do a lot of work and
replacement, but the building permits suffered a little bit. When they are already
slow to begin with, their permits dragged back a little bit. How do we prevent it going
forward?
COUNCIL MEETING 19 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Mr. Ozaki: On top of the immediate response to the
incident, we are taking additional measures, which Mr. Porter can share.
Mr. Porter: Mr. Ozaki has been working with the
third-party company to do an assessment with the entire system, for the three (3)
buildings in the Civic Center. In this assessment that they are going to be doing is
recommended to be done every ten (10) years, and so we are doing one now and start
that ten-year cycle. They randomly select five percent (5%) of the sprinkler heads in
each area, remove, replace them, and then they do tests. They also test the plumbing.
That gives them an overall idea of the overall system. That is the type of testing they
do and it is recommended every ten (10) years. We are getting on that cycle now.
Councilmember Kagawa: Perfect. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there further questions?
Councilmember Carvalho: I wanted to mention again that the funding
we have before us covers everything, as mentioned by Councilmember Kagawa. The
data part is all inclusive of everything.
Mr. Ozaki: Yes.
r
Councilmember Carvalho: We are all good?
Mr. Ozaki: Yes.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: This is for Mr. Porter. I understand we are
looking at the sprinklers to make sure we do not have a challenge again. Does it
impact how we design off a space? When we are putting new things in, are we putting
more like a type of drywall with high gloss paint that we usually put in a bathroom?
Are we learning from it in the way as we rebuild—do we have high gloss paint in most
of these rooms?
Mr. Porter: Just for the interior paint, we use high gloss.
We plan on not putting in carpet, and just sealing the concrete. The carpet being
saturated was the big issue causing mold, which increases the dry time.
Councilmember Cowden: With rooms not being redesigned, are we
putting any plastic boxes around critical paperwork? It sounds like we got through
this and that is a big "yay" because of how much we have been moving as hard as we
can to get things onto the cloud, but we have decades of documents. It is very
important that we do not destroy our documents. Is there any effort being made in
other rooms, even if they do not have a sprinkler, but for these high priority
documents to be protected?
COUNCIL MEETING 20 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Mr. Porter: I am not sure what measures the Department
of Public Works will use, but they were talking about how they are going to secure...
Councilmember Cowden: Managing Director Matsuyama, we learned
something from this and we are going to move forward trying to make sure we are
not vulnerable in other...
(Councilmember Carvalho was noted as not present.)
Ms. Matsuyama: Definitely. For the most part we are going to
try to move away from paper, in general. This sprinkler that went off was basically
over the map room, which was all paper. Thankfully, none of the computers got
damaged, so that was a good thing. The more we can move to electronic files would
be the better way to go.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there further questions? Is there any
public testimony? Is there further discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to receive C 2023-218 for the record was then put, and carried by
a vote of 6:0:1 (Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the
County of Kauai, Councilmember Carvalho was noted as silent (not present),
but shall be recorded as an affirmative for the motion; Council Chair Rapozo
was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion carries. Next item, please.
C 2023-219 Communication (09/19/2023) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal funds in the
amount of$1,000,000.00, from the Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA) Fiscal Year (FY)
2023 Second Chance Act Pay for Success Program. These funds will be awarded to start
the E Ho`i I Ka Piko (Returning to the Center) Program and will fund a 1.0 Full-Time
Employee (FTE) Social Worker IV position, fringe benefits, a modular unit to house the
Life's Choices staff, and the E Ho`i I Ka Piko Program, office equipment and supplies.
The proposed project period is October 1, 2023 to March 31, 2028.
(Councilmember Carvalho was noted as present.)
Councilmember Cowden moved to approve C 2023-219, seconded by
Councilmember Bulosan.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This will allow the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney (OPA) to accept federal funding. Are there any questions?
Councilmember Cowden: I do.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 OCTOBER 4, 2023
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
REBECCA V. LIKE, Prosecuting Attorney: Good morning, Rebecca Like,
Prosecuting Attorney.
Councilmember Cowden: Did we do a pilot project on this? This is
giving people who are coming out of incarceration a little bit of a bump forward to
have the basic things they need to avoid recidivism, is that correct?
Ms. Like: We previously had a grant program with
Kaua`i (Inaudible) Association where we provide Go Pass to people being released
from the jail and this is (inaudible) the program through this project. It was not a
"pilot program" but our application for this grant was based on the success of that
program.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, because these are related and you put
up a little tent to help people. I was really excited about it, but asked how could we
set this up?
Ms. Like: Correct, it was on a much smaller scale.
Councilmember Cowden: Can you expand what this means,
particularly if people have family members coming out of incarceration or any type of
adjudication?
Ms. Like: It is mainly based on reentry. The application
itself, the Second Chance Act Pay for Success is for reentry services.
Councilmember Cowden: Reentry from?
Ms. Like: From jail or prison. This program is a long
program, at least a five-year program with an eighteen-month implementation where
we can see what is successful and expand a successful program.
Councilmember Cowden: I attended a top 5 prison ministry and they
said there is about an eighty percent (80%) recidivism rate, is that just a broad
number? Do we have any idea what our recidivism is?
Ms. Like: I am not exactly sure what recidivism is on
Kaua`i, eighty percent (80%) seems very high. I do not have that data in front of me.
I am sorry.
Councilmember Cowden: For clarity, this is trying to help people once
they reenter their society, from their time of being incarcerated, that they are going
to have greater success in getting a job, living a life in alignment with our laws and
values of our community.
Ms. Like: Absolutely, that is the hope.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: That is the goal. Is it still going to be a tent?
Ms. Like: We do not currently have the office space. Our
hope would be to eventually get a possible portable between our office and the
courthouse. The people who are coming are getting released at court or jail could
come and get services there, but that is not part of this grant. This does include some
office equipment and supplies, but it does not include a place.
Councilmember Cowden: When they come out of the court, it seems like
there is an empty room in the courthouse, can we partner with the State? Are we
partnering with the State on this? How do we make sure we are successful because
this happens year after year and that we have people returning to their families and
children and our workforce, but it seems like you have some of what you need, but
not all of what you need. If it is not all what you need, how can we help?
Ms. Like: Like I mentioned, there is an eighteen-month
implementation period and during that period we are going to make sure that the
evidence is indicating that the program is successful by reducing recidivism. If it is
not successful as we start, we can change course and consider going a different route.
Our hope is that during the implementation period we can "hammer out" more of the
details, but we will likely be coming back to you with an additional information
request. Since we just secured the funding a couple weeks ago, we have not gotten
all those details yet and we have that lengthy planning period to hash those details
out.
Councilmember Cowden: Can we do a retroactive look to see what our
recidivism rate is so we can measure success? If we do not even know what the level
of recidivism is, it is hard to know if we have been successful. Can we look at the last
year or two. I imagine the state looks at that. I want to evaluate our success so that
if this is not working, then we find something else to work. It certainly seems...just
by being a member of the community, it is a service that we need to help people
reenter our community on your best foot and stay there.
Ms. Like: As part of the program there is going to be a
controlled group and a group that is going through the program. The people who are
in the program are going to measure against the folks who are not in the program to
measure success with our hopes that the people in the program are going to be more
successful.
Councilmember Cowden: Who picks who gets to be in the program?
Ms. Like: I am not sure what the evaluation practice
will be. I know that Hawai`i Island had a similar grant program and from my
understanding of what they did was a mentorship program, so they worked with
thirty-nine (39) individuals who were released from incarceration and each were
assigned a mentor. None of those individuals recidivated after having that mentor
assigned to them. It would be a program, not necessarily exactly like that, but with
that idea in mind. They did not have the resources to assign a mentor to every single
COUNCIL MEETING 23 OCTOBER 4, 2023
person being released from incarceration, but the folks who did get released were
more successful than those who did not have a mentor.
Councilmember Cowden: I would like to make a recommendation that
we look to see if we can do the best way, so it is not fair to the people who do not get
into the group and if I was picking someone to be in the group, I would put my highest
likelihood people to have the success, so you are going to have a bias. Thank you.
Those are my questions. Basically, I am not giving a hard time, I am saying "yay,"
and thank you. I really want to see it work.
Ms. Like: We are excited too.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there further questions? Councilmember
DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: You answered my question when you said
your office will have to come back to the Council over the five-year period, that is
what I wanted to let you know my support. You folks have some initial funding, and
if you needed anything else, the Council will be here to support you.
Ms. Like: Thank you.
Councilmember DeCosta: You mentioned the mentorship program—is
this grant only for ages eighteen (18) and older or are you going to target youth who
got in trouble, not necessarily sending them to prison, but they have to be sent to boys
and/or girls home or they may have some community hours. Are you planning on
teaming up with Keala Foundation, because I know they do good work with the
youth?
Ms. Like: It is something that can be considered. When
we submitted the application, the targeted population was more on folks getting
released from Kaua`i Community Correctional Center (KCCC), but as I mentioned we
have a long planning period where we can adjust, make changes, and have a more
expansive population; we can target juveniles or adults and juveniles, but the
application we submitted was for adults.
Councilmember DeCosta: When you talk about people incarcerated
being released, you have levels of degrees that they are incarcerated for, so the ones
who get released and are not stigmatized "dangerous to society," would they want to
help youth who are also troubled, creating.a mentorship and give them stewardship
over land or their keiki so they have some self-worth now. Being in a mentorship
program gives the released inmates a reason and a want to be good community
members. My brain is thinking about solutions. I am a solution-based person. Have
you thought about the program in that aspect?
Ms. Like: We are just in early discussions as to what
this is going to look like. Just for clarity's sake, the mentorship program on Hawaii
Island—our is not necessarily going to be identical to that program, that is just
one (1) program that has been under the Second Chance Act Pay for Success Program
COUNCIL MEETING 24 OCTOBER 4, 2023
model. I certainly think a relational component is critical to success whether that be
mentorship or some sort of group activity where individuals form prosocial bonds, so
that when they are in trouble, they have a person to call or someone to reach out to
that can help them make better choices.
Councilmember DeCosta: I am sorry to give you so much to think about,
but I am willing to chat with you for assistance.
Ms. Like: I appreciate it.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: Would this "tie in" offering opportunities for
the amount that they have a place to work connecting with the employment
opportunities for them? Would this support the Camp Agape Kaua`i type of thinking,
which is children with incarcerated parents? That they need that connection and
support the camp at Camp Naue, is that something part of this discussion?
Ms. Like: The success of the program is going to be
based on the success of the participants, so it is going to be measured. Part of that
measurement should be whether they are employed or whether their children are
being successful, cared for, and staying out of trouble at school. Our hope is to be
holistic, but we are still in the early phases.
Councilmember Carvalho: I just was wondering if it was part of the
bigger picture.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: There being no further questions, while the
rules are still suspended, do we have anyone signed up to testify? Is there anyone in
the audience wishing to testify?
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. I want to see how
this program works out...almost all my questions were asked by Councilmember
Cowden, so I want to thank her. I would like to encourage everyone to follow this. I
hope it is a success because it is dearly needed. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Is there anyone else from the
audience wishing to testify on this item?
Ms. Cummings: Sherri Cummings, Malama Anahola. This
has been on the radar for us as Council For Native Hawaiian Advancement (CNHA)
board members from years past to current, that recidivism in Hawai`i is massive, it
is over fifty percent (50%). The proportion that is native Hawaiian is huge. With all
the money that has been put into corrections and opportunities to rehabilitate
inmates, if you will. My family comes from an inmate background from my children
to my nephews, my sister is a (inaudible) trainer for the State of Hawai`i and
unfortunately we see all Hawaiian, majority, and I understand this is in the infancy
stage, but we ask this all the time, if there can be components in this program that
includes how we connect to our kanaka people to create programs that will enhance
COUNCIL MEETING 25 OCTOBER 4, 2023
the inmates that is actually coming out of that system. I believe past Prosecuting
Attorney Iseri-Carvalho, in her early years, tried to create something like that, to
include an initiative for how you rehabilitate. Councilmember DeCosta was correct
when he talked about children and the opportunities that children should have. The
Keala Foundation is amazing. We should not only be reactive to the inmates that
come out, but be proactive about how we malama these kamalii who will, if we do not
"catch" them in the early years be the ones that will be incarcerated. Therefore, to
include in these programs opportunities for us to go after children and give them
opportunities to become productive citizens in Kaua`i starting at a young age,because
they are displaced in just the small things, such as having opportunities to play
sports, because it is such a big amount of money to be in Pop Warner, etcetera,
families cannot afford. Those are the families who are in the system. If a component
can be to malama. Mahalo.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
audience wishing to testify?
Councilmember Cowden: Can I ask Prosecuting Attorney Like more
questions? Gratitude for this. In your application process is there outreaching to the
different contributing...she mentioned Council For Native Hawaiian Advancement.
When we look at Drug Court, there are many different programs that the court and
the Prosecutor's are already using, but it might be that there are...as you are getting
the grant, is there going to be outreach? Even the people who work from a
correctional center, we have the work program, I know that feathers into
release...will there be places where people can send in their ideas to you folks and
that you are able to look and if there is a good match, then we can have it. I would
like to see this be as absolutely successful as possible and especially when I look at
our workforce problems, it can also help to reenter people into the workforce. Is there
room in this application process for that?
Ms. Like: Part of the grant is for us to subcontract with
other nonprofits and agencies that do this type of work, because that is not something
that we do. There is a focus on Native Hawaiian population, which is why the program
is called E Ho`i I Ka Piko. There are a number of organizations that we list it in our
applications are possible partners.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Ms. Like: But we have not identified them or contracted
with them yet, since we were just granted the grant a couple weeks ago, so that will
be part of our implementation and planning process.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there further questions? Thank you.
Members, is there any final discussion?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 26 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Bulosan: I just wanted to send my mahalo to the
Prosecuting Attorney and the team, and the work that they are doing, this is vital
work. Thank you so much for looking for additional funds to support this program. I
absolutely love the name of the program. I think often when we think about these
situations and where people are, it is easy to look at the bad and not look at it as what
this is intitled. It is returning to the center, which means a healing process versus
"you are a bad person" and therefore you are not good in this community. It is a matter
of looking at a person as a whole and try to heal as a community. I appreciate the
efforts and I am looking forward to all the work that you folks will be doing.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I am a big fan of you. I advocate for you all
the time; we have some personal friends of mine working for you. I just wanted to say
that I appreciate all the work that you do and appreciate you listening to some of my
suggestions, we talk outside of this room here. One of the big things that I wanted
you to understand is that to provide mentorship, you must come from the same place.
For example, you cannot call on me to mentor a person that is coming out of an
alcohol/drug rehabilitation, because I have never had that problem. But you can call
on me to do another type of mentoring, that I had the same problem rendered in my
lifetime, I would be able to mentor. That is why the Keala Foundation is so successful.
Their mentorship program is run by men and women who were addicted to drugs or
alcohol and now they are mentoring the younger generation. When you create these
mentorship programs in the community for adults, it is good to have those adults that
you can lean on who have the same trials and tribulations. I am excited if we can link
up and talk more about it and make it a successful program. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden?
Councilmember Cowden: I feel like I have stated it, gratitude and
inclusion.
The motion to approve C 2023-219 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Clerk, next item, please.
C 2023-220 Communication(09/20/2023)from the County Engineer, requesting
Council approval to receive and expend Congressionally Directed Spending, in the
amount of $1,200,000.00, administered by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration (NOAA) and are intended for the Waimea 400 Wetland Restoration
project.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Carvalho moved to approve C 2023-220, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
COUNCIL MEETING 27 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions for the Department of
Public Works? Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: This is great. Can you tell us who will spend
that money? Can you state what that means and how much of the four hundred
fifteen (415) acres gets restored or needs restoration?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
TROY K. TANIGAWA, County Engineer: I will answer the last question
first. How much of the wetlands? That all depends on the technical studies that come
through. Basically, what the proposed project is, which we anticipate is going to cost
about one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000), is follow on work to the
Planning Department work product. They had a two-year process to develop a master
plan to use the property. During that master planning process, they considered a lot
of things, because that piece of property has certain characteristics and has a history
of being a wetland area, which was then filled in and cultivated for sugar cane. In
addition to sea-level rise and some other things that are going to be anticipated to
change with time, this plan included consideration of principles for adaptive
planning. This follow-up work will ultimately develop plans, technical specifications,
and develop the information that we are going to need to properly develop that piece
of land to maximize its productivity.
Councilmember Cowden: That land had a good one hundred (100)
years, and now is fallow for probably ten (10) years, but it has had a good one hundred
(100) years of agricultural chemicals applied to it, so I am sure soil content, because
there is going to have houses and playgrounds on top of it. It looks like you have soil
remediation requirements, so you will be working on revitalizing the soil.
Mr. Tanigawa: That would be the purpose. One of the things
that the technical side will address is the hydrology of the area, evaluating the
geology. They will be doing sampling, so there will be an extensive soil sampling and
analysis plan created and then the experts will conduct the sampling and determined
where it needs to be remediated, what types of remediation will be employed to allow
people to occupy that area. Ultimately, a good portion of the area, specifically the
wetland area, is intended for recreation purposes. One of the things identified was
fishing, possibly, so we are going to want to make sure that when people use the area,
they can operate in some places safely.
Councilmember Cowden: On those considerations, are you looking at
bile remediation? Bile remediation has been increasingly studied and found to be
pretty cost-effective and remarkedly good, rather than digging it up and moving it
away, a lot of wear and tear on the land can be fixed through mycelium, plants, bile
remediation, so even if you construct that early and it cleans it up even before you
run the tests. Is that something that is on our list of considerations?
Mr. Tanigawa: Yes, I am sure the experts that we are
bringing in know the current practices to remediate the different things that going to
require attention. We will just make sure that they look at those things also.
COUNCIL MEETING 28 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there further questions for the
Department of Public Works? While the rules are still suspended, do we have anyone
signed up to testify? Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Mr. Sykos.
LONNIE SYKOS: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I listened to
that and at the end of it, I am utterly clueless as to what the purpose of this wetland
restoration is. I will be perfectly honest, I do not know the details at all, for example,
who owns the land, which the government does, I believe. And the government, most
certainly, owns the water. All the land got backfilled and so one of the questions is,
going back in time when there used to be streams and ponds and things, how much
of that is going to be restored or are we going to come up with a new plan for the
diversion of water moves around. If we are going to restore the land to the way it was
to whatever degree before the plantations moved all the soil around. What is the
intent of the outcome of the wetland restoration? It could be attracting birds and
creating nesting habitat for birds, we could even attract birds from the Pacific flyway
besides our native birds, which is where they all came from. It could be the site for
things nehu that requires brackish water to breed in, with is our Pacific sardine. It
used to be the main stain of our fishing industry, food for the larger fish that we eat.
What is the purpose, because as we spend this money, as this goes on over time, today
we need to understand what exactly it is that we are trying to do. Stating it all in
generalities, you are going to get an outcome of generalities versus specifics such as
"In ten (10) years, we expect our native bird population to have increased
five-hundred-fold in that region," as a potential outcome versus, "We will just do this
and see what happens." Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Before I call for further testimony, I am going
to read two (2) sentences out of our memorandum for this item. "The Waimea 400
Wetland Restoration project is part of the broader Waimea 400 Conceptual Master
Plan which aims to redevelop coastal wetlands previously used for sugar production
and a dairy farm." The letter closes with, "The restored wetlands will provide crucial
ecosystem services such as flood mitigation, improved water quality and habitat for
native birds, fish, and plants." County Engineer Tanigawa just told us about
recreation purposes. The Waimea 400 is the County property, on the Westside. Are
there further members of the public wishing to testify on this item? Is there further
discussion? Councilmember Cowden.
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for bringing up about the
conceptual master plan and Mr. Sykos raised a good question, and not everyone was
present for the couple of years of planning, they did a lot with the community there,
and there were ecologists, environmentalists, and all types of pictures and they did
great work at the Waimea Theatre. I attended at least five (5) different planning
pieces. Especially with the younger people, they looked to see what they wanted, they
looked at where the wetlands were, and what they might want to turn it back into
with bananas. I know the kids wanted a paintball area in that part of the park. There
COUNCIL MEETING 29 OCTOBER 4, 2023
was a lot of discussion on those good questions you asked. Over ten (10) years ago, I
was looking at that land quite a bit and in the wetland that is there, there are plenty
of fish, birds, there was already evidence of supporting healthy life. I certainly looked
at the Historic Society's pictures where we saw water such that people even almost
did a standup paddle from Kekaha to Waimea. In this master plan time, a lot of
energy was spent on not filling and building the housing and everything else where
it had the naturally occurring higher ground. We have learned from the past and we
are not going to make those same mistakes. I was confident and comfortable; I looked
around to see if the Planning Department was present. I thought they did a great job
of reaching out to the community.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there further discussion? Councilmember
DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I came in a little late as a politician, but I grew
up on the Westside. My mom's brother worked at the dairy in Waimea. I know there
are a lot of plantations and farmlands across our state and nation that were farmed,
possibly were chemicals used, but they are in full operation today. The Hamakua
coastline had a sugar plantation for one hundred (100) years and now we have
ranches and family acreage growing on it. I know it is possible. It is a political year,
I think sometimes we like to encourage everyone to have a "chime in," right?Waimea
400—let us have the kids design something, have a paintball park, create some taro
and bananas, but I personally want to see a freshwater pond or a brackish water pond
that can support some type of economic productivity, like a catfish pond. The kids
can fish and sell it as a lunch item to the tourists at a lunch truck. Catfish is known
to clean up ponds and it could create a wetland for your native birds who would like
to rest on those ponds. I am just suggesting creating a vibrant economy rather than
just creating something that the kids or community want. As leaders, we need to look
at that. I know oysters help clean water and ponds, so that could be another viable
industry. Talking about walkable cities and communities that want to live and work,
Waimea 400 would be the perfect place to put housing, put some economical stability
within that type of community and I think they would thrive. Just some of my mana o
for Waimea 400.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any further discussion?
The motion to approve C 2023-220 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Motion carries. Next item, please.
C 2023-221 Communication (09/26/2023) from Council Chair Rapozo,
requesting the presence of Mike Ewall, Founder and Executive Director of Beyond
Burning, and Founder of the Energy Justice Network, to provide a briefing regarding
the negative effects of burning waste and the benefits of diverting waste from the
landfill.
Councilmember Cowden moved to receive C 2023-221 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Bulosan.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Mike Ewall will come forward and present,
but I think we should probably take our caption break.
Councilmember Kagawa: I have a process question. Council Chair
Rapozo was most interested in having this presentation, but he is absent due to an
illness, would it not be better if we referred it to Committee?
Councilmember Cowden: He has flown over here.
Councilmember Kagawa: Oh, he is not from here?
Councilmember Cowden: He is from the continental United States.
Councilmember Kagawa: It is unfortunate because the person who
wanted him here is not present.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: I believe Council Chair Rapozo is watching in.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: So, we will take our caption break.
Councilmember Kagawa: Watching in and being present is two (2)
different things.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay, we are going to take our caption break.
Ten-minute caption break. Right after the break, Mr. Ewall will come forward and
make the presentation.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 10:25 a.m.
The Committee reconvened at 10:38 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as not present.)
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Calling the meeting back to order. Mr. Ewall,
if you would come up, take the center chair, make sure the microphone is on, and you
have a presentation—fifteen (15) minutes. We already have a motion to receive.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MIKE EWALL, Founder and Executive Director of Beyond Burning, and
Founder of the Energy Justice Network: Aloha. Mahalo for having me here.
Councilmember Cowden: Aloha.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Aloha.
Mr. Ewall: So I have brought back in by nonprofits
KOkua Ka `Aina and Zero Waste Kauai to continue to support their work on energy
COUNCIL MEETING 31 OCTOBER 4, 2023
and waste issues, and when you are available, as a resource to you, as well. Just so
that you know that I am also going to be speaking at the Lihu`e Library at 3:00 p.m.
on Saturday, so if anyone is interested in a deeper dive on this than fifteen (15)
minutes can do, you will have that opportunity.
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as present.)
Mr. Ewall: As you are all well familiar, the Kekaha
Landfill is filling up and there is more of a crisis here than anywhere I have seen in
the country in terms of the real likelihood of literally having nowhere for your trash
to go. I have not seen places that cannot just ship it further to send to a landfill. You
are in obviously a special situation that is kind of alarming to me, honestly, and a lot
of folks that I have been hearing from about it. From the latest news I have seen on
this from earlier this year, they are talking about the current landfill...
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as not present.)
Mr. Ewall: ...filling up by October 2026, and the vertical
expansion would give it another few year, so October 2029. Of course they have
looked at a number of different landfill sites, all of them except for one (1) have been
ruled out, so the one (1) close to basically across the road from the current landfill is
where they will be building a new one. Your Solid Waste Coordinator has been quoted
saying, similar to statements I have seen elsewhere, so "it is probably the right
number that it takes about ten (10) years to build a new landfill." Those numbers do
not add up in a very good way for you. You are looking at possibly two (2) to three (3),
maybe a little bit more than a three-year gap where there is literally nowhere for
your trash to go. So that is very serious. There are a few main options that you have
in terms of what can be done. There is the idea of building a new trash incinerator
here. There is the idea of building other things that they usually use the term WTE
for Waste To Energy. They have learned that Waste To Fuel does not have as good
of an acronym, so they use other terms now. Waste To Fuel is another thing that I
know is being studied, and there is also the notion of pelletizing the trash or shipping
it to O`ahu, and then of course, the more realistic options of expanding the landfills,
but making sure you have time so that there is not a gap between the availability of
the current and new landfill. Let us go through some of these options really quickly.
Building a new trash incinerator, first of all, is enormously expensive. That is even
before the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) updates their regulations, which
they are working on. There is not enough trash. There is no company that would
come here and build a plant at the size that you would need. There might be some
that promise it, but it will not get built anyway, so you can waste your time talking
to them, but honestly, I have not seen anything that could be built at the scale you
need that would fall into this category. There is also very little likelihood that it could
ever be built even if you tried. It takes probably at least ten (10) years to do that, as
well. The opposition that you find to incineration is even more strong than to
landfills, and there literally has not been one (1) single new incinerator built at a new
location in this country since 1995, despite hundreds of attempts, every time
communities get together and stop them if the economics and logistics do not stop
them on their own. As we will see in later slides, and this is also not good for the
environment, worse than landfills and other experimental types of incinerators like
COUNCIL MEETING 32 OCTOBER 4, 2023
pyrolysis and gasification, costs more and work less and break down and have all
kinds of problems. They are not an answer either. There are other types that are
similar technologies, these are the ones that are called Waste To Fuel types which
are also experimental, tend not to work on mixed waste streams effectively, but even
more expensive, and they still have a lot of the same environmental problems that
you find with more conventional types of incinerators. All these technologies need to
be fed a certain amount of trash or you do not have enough to economically run them,
and so it is discouraging towards efforts to reduce waste. The notion of shipping it to
O`ahu, I was just spending the last week on Oahu, I met with a lot of folks, I did a
number of talks there, talked to the solid waste officials, as well. I did not realize
until that trip that the City and County of Honolulu prohibits out-of-county trash, so
you need to get them to change their law to even allow that idea, but it is also an
expensive option. There is also the fact that incinerator and landfills that accept the
ash are all concentrated where it is closest to the largest population of Native
Hawaiians are on the planet, and two (2) out of the three (3) burners are older
facilities that are missing half—two (2) of the four (4) producing control systems that
most incinerators have, two (2) out of three (3) burners do not have. They are also
going to age out at some point and they do not even want your trash. The Solid Waste
Director there even said, "Even if the State law, or the County law rather, was
changed, they do not want the logistical problems of having to deal with additional
trash for when the plant does break down—they want to have that extra padding."
The options are basically to do what is already being pursued—the vertical expansion,
the building of the new landfill, as well, but you have that timeframe that you need
to close. That gap of time and the time to make sure that you get the zero waste
methods in place is now, or if not, yesterday, because if you are going to close that
gap, there is specific things that you would need to be doing right away. Now, some
general things on trash incineration. They are declining in the country, there are
fifty (50) that closed just since 2000. No one is really getting away with building new
ones, they are down to sixty-six (66) in the country, and this industry is going out of
style, and for good reason. I am going to gloss over some of these so we do not run
out of time. There are a lot of different terms that they use including policy terms
like "Integrated," which is basically a word that means incineration as part of the
system, but a lot of different words they use to avoid saying incinerator because
people know that is a bad word. It is important to understand that a lot of them are
public relation (PR) terms or just different twists on incineration that are essentially
the same idea, like "pyrolysis" is like splitting incineration into a two-step process. It
is still defined and regulated by EPA as incineration.
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as present.)
Mr. Ewall: When you say things like "Trash to Steam," it
is not just steam coming out or throwing more than ice cubes in our trash cans. It is
not just water vapors, more like "Trash to Toxic Ash" and "Toxic Air Emissions."
Same thing with terms like "Waste to Energy" which is also a public relations term.
I like to call it "Waste-Of-Energy" because if you actually took the same materials,
the recyclables, and compostable that are most of what is in trash and recycle and
compost and you save three (3) to five (5) times more energy than you can get back
by burning it. Probably the most disturbing part of this is the expense. They are not
only very expensive, but because they are so expensive, they require contracts like
COUNCIL MEETING 33 OCTOBER 4, 2023
you see on O`ahu where they have what is called a"Put-or-Pay" clause in the contract.
That is a clause that says, you give us a certain amount of waste or you pay us
anyways if you did not, which is deadly to zero waste efforts. If you think you are
going to have an incinerator and then be able to recycle and compost more or reduce
and reuse even better, you are going to run into serious problems because you have
that fundamental economic conflict. There are examples as well, I will not belabor
them, but places like largest city bankruptcy in the country was in Harrisburg,
Pennsylvania...I think some other city beat them later, Detroit did, but that was
largely because of their incinerator. Actually, Detroit's bankruptcy, their largest
single creditor, was their incinerator, which is now shut down. Based on EPA data,
we find that trash incineration is actually dirtier than burning coal. This is for most
of the pollutants, there are a couple exceptions on our list, but for most of them
involving major pollutants to make the same amount of energy is actually dirtier to
burn trash than coal, and it is not just me saying that. Crunching the EPA's numbers,
you can look no further than the state that has more incinerators than any other
state, and that is the State of New York. They did a study on, this is their
Environmental Agency...I just plugged the numbers into Excel so you can see them,
but it is a chart full of numbers and it shows that, except for sulfur dioxide, every
pollutant, it was worse to burn trash burn coal. This was back in 2011, when they
still had a coal power plant...they closed all those down. Their ten (10) trash
incinerators unfortunately are still running, but even their data shows that mercury,
fourteen (14) times higher rate of emissions than from a coal power plant. We know
coal power plants are filthy, particularly on mercury. The ash still has to go
somewhere. If we burn one hundred (100) tons of trash—it does not magically turn
into energy. Every ton going in, comes out and see they are coming out as ash for air
pollution. And the reason I have a picture of coffee beans on here, is an analogy. If
you pour water over coffee beans, you are not going to get coffee, right? But, you grind
them up and you increase the surface area—now you can get coffee. It is the same
principal with trash. If I take this phone and I chuck it into the Kekaha Landfill, it
is going to take a long time for the metals and other toxic chemicals in this phone to
reach me in a way I can eat, breathe, or drink, but if you burn this, for in trash in
general, seventy percent (70%) is now in the air, thirty percent (30%) is now fine ash
that can blow off of trucks, that can leach more readily into the landfill, and create
leachate that can affect the groundwater. It can also blow off the top of the landfill
into the community. So it is actually more dangerous for a landfill community to have
ash in it than even trash—it is not size of the landfill than it is dangerous as the
toxicity. There are studies of incinerators versus landfills and it is not an issue of
landfill versus incinerator, it is landfill versus both because with an incinerator, you
still need a place for the ash to go. Ultimately, this is versus zero waste with minimal
landfilling. The studies on that do this comparison, I just want to share some of those
results real quick. In Delaware County, Pennsylvania, which is close to where I live.
I actually live in the middle of the biggest cluster of trash incinerators in the
country—there are five (5) of them and one (1) of them is the largest. The largest one
is in Delaware County, in the City of Chester, and that county decided that they were
going to hire Zero Waste consultants to come up with their ten-year Solid Waste
Management Plan required by the state and come up with this Zero Waste plan and
that plan includes not just moving away from incineration as quickly as possible,
which they expect to do within a few years. They are already starting this year to
divert waste, but includes the lifecycle analysis which look at incineration versus
COUNCIL MEETING 34 OCTOBER 4, 2023
landfilling because there is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about
which one is more dangerous. We all know that landfills are a bad. No one is here
saying landfills are wonderful...no one would say that. I would not say that, I have
helped fight them, however, incinerators are worse and make landfills more
dangerous and that is what the science on this shows. The first two (2) bars here are
that incinerator and the third one is the landfill that the county owns. Those first
two (2) bars...the reason why there is two (2) of them is because a lot of times when
you do lifecycle assessment, you will subtract things that are displaced. So when they
make electricity, they will assume in that case natural gas power is being displaced
so they will subtract emissions from that from the total. The community experience
is the first bar, but overall the world experiences the second one because some things
are reduced although that is still worse than going straight to the landfill. The blue
part of those bars is the climate emissions, so that is the biggest one...the greenhouse
gases and you do not see a lot of the other impacts associated with landfills, but with
incinerator, you see the brown section which is the particulate matter that
contributes to heart attacks and strokes. The red section which is the toxic chemicals
that contribute to birth defects and cancer and other diseases. The yellow section on
top of that is the nitrogen oxides that contribute to triggering asthma attacks. These
are all made worse when you incinerate and tiny bits by landfilling, but for the most
part you do not have those kinds of affects with the landfill. This chart is from
Hawai`i County, it came out just this past year and they asked the question whether
for recyclable materials, is it better to recycle them, to landfill them, or to ship them
to Oahu and burn them at the Honolulu Program of Waste Energy Recovery (H-
POWER)...that is what they studied. The green bars here, they are all positive on
affects, but that is looking at shipping it thousands of miles across the ocean to Asia
to get them recycled and even with all that transportation and the fuels they burn on
these big ships, it is still a net positive affect to be recycling those materials. The first
two are types of paper, the second two are types of plastics, and if you look at what
you do with the paper, the brown bars there, that is the effect of landfilling, so those
will break down over time, you will get some greenhouse gases from them, which is
most of those brown bars, but if you burn them immediately, all that carbon is
injected into the atmosphere, so the yellow bars from incineration is even worse than
with landfilling. Now with plastics, the second two sets of bars, the brown section
from the landfill, it is not even big enough to put the number on it so they had put a
little marker on there. You get very little harm coming from the plastics and the
landfill because they basically sit there forever which is a benefit. It is carbon
sequestering the plastics. That is better to be keeping them in one place where they
are not going anywhere than to immediately inject them into the atmosphere which
is what incineration does, which is why you see those yellow bars are so much worse.
A few things on solutions for...we are running out of time here. This is a
deconstruction crew in the City of Baltimore where we are helping the city
councilmembers pass a deconstruction mandate like some other cities that passed to
reduce construction and demolition waste, which is one of your bigger waste streams
here, and in general. Zero Waste is defined internationally—I helped write this
definition with the Zero Waste International Alliance, it is an internationally
peer-viewed definition, it makes it very clear that burning is not part of what Zero
Waste is and Zero Waste is not some utopic crazy idea that folks think we are literally
going to get to zero. We have zero policies of all sorts. We have zero drug tolerance,
zero safety defects, and zero accidents in the workplace kind of standards. What
COUNCIL MEETING 35 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Chief Executive Officer (CEO) is going to announce to their shareholders and say,
"This year our goal is to injure five (5) workers." They get laughed at out of the room,
right? But we do that with waste all the time when we say what percent we are going
to recycle, what our target is, which means how much waste are you for because that
is what we are essentially doing. Zero Waste planning, which other governments
have been doing, involves trying and never stopping to get us close to zero as you can
and those most effective communities have gone up to sixty percent (60%), seventy
percent (70%), eighty percent (80%), sometimes in other countries even ninety
percent (90%) diverted from incineration or landfill. This here is a Zero Waste
hierarchy. You will see incineration is classified as unacceptable, next up is the
landfill, but if you do it right, you have a landfill that is not as gassy, stinky, large or
having as much of a leachate problem because of all the upstream solutions and the
backend processing that makes them much safer to have. Some of the main solutions,
I am going to highlight the first one. It has a lot of different names...it is typically
called "Pay As You Throw," but because there is an aversion to the word "pay," it has
been renamed "Save as You Throw" and some other names like "Unit-based Pricing."
What that means is charging people per bag or per bin, and you currently kind of do
that a little bit with the size of the bin being how people are paying for their waste
disposal here, but that we pay for electricity, for water, for gas, we pay for how much
we use, and in general, a lot of times your neighbor can put out ten (10) bags a
week...you can put out one (1), and you end up paying the same price and that is not
fair in a lot of places. There are over seven thousand (7,000) communities that are
doing that type of system and when they do, they find immediately, people's behaviors
change. You are paying for recycling, you are paying for composting...right now you
are not paying to pick it up at people's doors, so it is made less convenient. You are
saying you are?
Councilmember Cowden: We do. We have size of garbage bins.
Mr. Ewall: Okay, you have sized ones, but people still
have to take their recycling and composting elsewhere. You do not come to the door,
right? That is part of the problem is the lack of curbside collection that makes it less
convenient for people, but you do have the sizing issue, so yes, I am aware of that,
thank you for highlighting that. When you look at communities that have done
Pay As You Throw, let us highlight the last one here, Sanford, Maine, is the best
example. They found what other communities found. On average of forty-four
percent (44%) reduction right away in how much waste is going into trashcans when
you have that different type of how to pay for it. A way where they can control how
much they pay by paying per bag. What happened in Sanford, Maine is someone won
the lottery and did not like it and took out billboards and lobbied against it and they
repealed it. Then the amount of waste going out went right back up to almost as high
as it was. Then after some time as you see in that chart, that person moved away
and the people decided, "why do we not try doing that again," and it went down even
more than it was. You cannot get a better case study than that and it has been
documented that it is the most effective and cost-effective way to quickly reduce
waste. If there were no other things that you do, curbside, recycling, and composting
collection with this kind of system will probably close the gap and save you the notion
of running out of landfill space altogether for some period of years. Pointing out here
is Austin, they have a Zero Waste Plan, as well. It is pretty ambitious, it gets them
COUNCIL MEETING 36 OCTOBER 4, 2023
to over ninety percent (90%) diversions. There are a lot of places that have plans like
this that have been developed for them by Zero Waste consultants. The second to the
last slide, suggests an overview of things that can be done. First, I understand you
are working on, for a second time, a new study on so-called Waste To Energy
Technologies. This is not something that really needs to be studied because other
counties have already done this and found that they do not work. There are
communities like Prince George's County that had a consultant come back, give them
all these ideas for Waste To Energy Technologies, and they chose to not do any of
them, just stick to expanding their landfill. You do not need to reinvent that wheel.
We already know they are not going to work out. There are a number of solutions
including bi-weekly trash collection, if you want to save on the collection costs, it can
change one of those collections to recycling and composting and a deconstruction
mandate like I mentioned Baltimore is considering—these are all things that will
seriously reduce your waste and buy you the time that you need. I will leave it there.
Thanks for letting me go over a little bit and happy to answer any questions.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Members, are there any
questions? Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Your first name again?
Mr. Ewall: Mike.
Councilmember DeCosta: Mike, I do not know if I was not listening or
anything, but what are your credentials?
Mr. Ewall: My credential are that I have been working on
these issues for over thirty (30) years, I have a degree in Sociology with a minor in
Science Technology in Society and also an attorney, but people often ask if I am a
Chemist because I taught myself enough chemistry to be dangerous, and I really
understand how you folks feel because of that.
Councilmember DeCosta: I understand that. Do you have any kind of
degree in any kind of environmental solutions or any kind of current certifications in
this solid waste issue that we have?
Mr. Ewall: I am a certified Zero Waste Associate by Zero
Waste USA which has Zero Waste certification programs.
Councilmember DeCosta: Zero Waste is something that was created
here on Kaua`i, correct?
Mr. Ewall: No, that is international.
Councilmember DeCosta: International. Okay. So you are familiar with
international. Solid waste...
Mr. Ewall: My focus is on the United States.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember DeCosta: Correct, because you mentioned that no place
in the United States has an incinerator that can burn trash...
Mr. Ewall: No, that is not what I said.
Councilmember DeCosta: ...environmentally...let me finish.
Mr. Ewall: Oh, I am sorry.
Councilmember DeCosta: Environmentally-friendly because you said
that incinerators are worse than landfills.
Mr. Ewall: Yes, that is correct.
Councilmember DeCosta: Did you look at Japan's current technology
that Japan is using?
Mr. Ewall: Which one? They have a variety of
technologies.
Councilmember DeCosta: I believe it is called the Global...let me look...
So you are familiar with Japan though they have a variety of...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Ewall: A little bit. It is very difficult to get
information from Japan, because it is not as their "Right to Know" laws are not the
same there and there is also, of course, the language barrier that does not help me.
Councilmember DeCosta: Okay, hang on. And I do not want to argue
with you, but since you are presenting and you gave a lot of information...
Mr. Ewall: Yes.
Councilmember DeCosta: ...that seems like it is going to make people
nervous, because when you say that the toxic chemical that come out of burning trash
is worse than a landfill, I would like to let you know that I have statistical data that
shows it is not.
Mr. Ewall: Okay, I would like to see it.
Councilmember DeCosta: So when you have leachates, which is created
in a landfill, even with a liner that you have, if there is pressure on top of that liner
and there is heat, and you put earth, dirt to cover that landfill which is what our
current landfill does, it eventually will cause that polyurethane liner to crack or
break, and then the leachates goes into our aquafers and our earth. So, the
state-of-the-art technology that is called World Class Solid Waste Management
System in Japan, they have a state-of-the-art technology that actually burns with
clean air their trash and only five percent (5%), a fifty-million-dollar equipment
COUNCIL MEETING 38 OCTOBER 4, 2023
produces five percent (5%) trash. When we recycle here with your theory, where do
we send those recyclables? I noticed you did not have an answer. Where do those
recyclables go because there are no third world countries taking recyclables any
longer? So where would our plastic bottles and things that we recycle go?
Mr. Ewall: Okay, that is quite a different question and I
think there is someone in the back of the room who can answer that for you. I was
just speaking with him, he runs your recycling program on-island, I believe. There
are markets for that where it is currently going. But as far as Japan, what you are
saying is not correct about there being clean air incinerators. There is no such thing—
you cannot have combustion without greenhouse gases without other things that go
into it coming out. Mercury goes in, mercury comes out. Other elements go in, they
come out, as well. Chlorine is in our waste stream, that will come out as hydrochloric
acid and some will come out as dioxins and furans, which are the most toxic chemicals
known to science. There is no such thing as a clean incinerator.
Councilmember DeCosta: Maybe here in the United States.
Mr. Ewall: No, anywhere. Technology is not
fundamentally different. Physics and the laws of physics are not different.
Councilmember DeCosta: So you have some experience with the
Japanese technology?
Mr. Ewall: Well you have not told me what technology it
is. I am assuming you are probably talking about plasma arc gasification (PAG) of
some sort and I am not familiar with that. I am also familiar with that those who
have visited Japan found out that a lot of the things that they were told or actually
when they toured the plants turned out not to be true. I am happy to dig into that
further if you want to give me details of which plant...
Councilmember DeCosta: The last question I have for you. You talk
about ash. Do you know that they can make bricks out of the ash that comes out of
the landfill...I mean the incinerator?
Mr. Ewall: Yes, I have heard of things like that. That is
not something that is generally been done in this country. It is something that is still
a danger because the ash is particularly toxic and especially if you have better
pollution controls that you have that stuff going into the air, that means that those
toxic chemicals are now in the ash and the ash is a high surface area. So even if you
made bricks, the manufacturing of them, the ultimate breaking down of them, or even
the erosion of them is releasing toxic chemicals into the environment and the workers
that are affected.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden; First of all I want to thank you for your
presentation. I really value it. I think slide 19, the image with the coffee bean was
particularly meaningful to me because I have not thought of it that way before. So, I
COUNCIL MEETING 39 OCTOBER 4, 2023
thank you on that one. I think the challenge we go through is that we just do not
know where to send all those recyclables to. I want people to not buy them in the
first place, but sort of what Councilmember DeCosta was saying, do you know which
countries look like they are eager to continue to receive garbage?
Mr. Ewall: I will say right now that is not my specialty.
You do have someone in the back of the room who could answer that better and also
know folks who are recycling experts and work more on that markets' end. You can
probably add to the answer if you want to be in touch with them.
Councilmember Cowden: Council Vice Chair Kuali`i, I see that Keola is
here. Can we...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The floor is yours. He gave us a presentation,
we are asking questions on his presentation. So when we are done with questions of
his presentation, we will consider other items.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. I appreciate your work here, so thank
you so much. You have quite a lot of information and well-presented, a lot that I am
familiar with.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any other questions? On your slides
where you say incineration worse than coal, you give us those graphs, and then you
talked about science, so that is scientific data there. Then later when you talk about
the incineration being worse than landfills, is that also additional scientific data?
Mr. Ewall: It is. The study that was done is called
Lifecycle Assessment for Delaware County, Pennsylvania.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Alright.
Mr. Ewall: It was Jeffrey Mars, M.D., a Ph.D. Economist
who put together the most comprehensive lifecycle assessment tool that is largely
drawing from EPA and other published resources and methods, and it looks at
nine (9) different environmental criteria. The biggest one turns out to be climate, but
looks at all the other ones and is able to add them up so you can see them in one (1)
chart so it is easier for decision-makers to make sense of it instead of nine (9) different
charts.
Councilmember DeCosta: I have a follow-up.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Go ahead Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Clarify that Ph.D. that he has. Is that an
environmental study or did you said economics?
Mr. Ewall: It is economics.
COUNCIL MEETING 40 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember De Costa: Okay, thank you. I am done. Thank you for
that clarification.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay, are there other councilmembers?
Councilmember Bulosan: I do.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: Thank you again for your presentation. You
mentioned in your presentation about Austin, Texas and their pursuit of going up to
ninety percent (90%). Is that ninety percent (90%) diversion?
Mr. Ewall: Yes.
Councilmember Bulosan: Okay, and is that part of their general plan or
master plan in land and waste management?
Mr. Ewall: Yes. That has been their solid waste plan for
I think about ten (10) years now. When they say "diversion" that means from
incineration and landfilling, but in Texas, they got rid of their mass incinerators years
ago, so it is just about landfilling in their case.
Councilmember Bulosan: Right, and then you mentioned you live in an
area that has the largest concentration of incinerators and the movement to going
towards Zero Waste practice and your last slide was sharing about strategies in which
to address these issues. The unique challenge here on Kaua`i is that it is an island
and we are separated by oceans, so that is always the end product question is as much
as we divert, where does it go? As far as the compost side, I am sure you have done
work in that area. Besides compost pick-up, have you seen in these counties and
places where you live where there is an activation in community just as a
self-practice? I know we have a great program here where we promote composting at
home and provide free bins, but aside from that, is there other solutions?
Mr. Ewall: Yes, one of the good places to look would be
Montgomery County, Maryland where they have a county-owned incinerator that
they are working on closing early in 2026, at the end of their contract, so they can
replace it with a combination of Zero Waste and going straight to a landfill instead of
burning first and then dumping ash. The Zero Waste consultants that they hired,
and I am actually part of the consulting team in that case, they have some of the best
composting experts in the country like a few of them who are just the most brilliant
leaders on that topic and they developed a set of recommendations around composting
that is many pages long and full of all sorts of things that they can do to improve their
system around that. So I am happy to make that Zero Waste plan available to you
and you do not have to even reinvent that wheel. You have a lot of recommendations
already compiled.
Councilmember Bulosan: I appreciate it. I guess the last piece for my
question is, how do you feel in these areas that are looking at these, I guess
COUNCIL MEETING 41 OCTOBER 4, 2023
conversions or change, how is the community response to these changes in a sense of
adapting new behaviors and looking at ways to make those changes, I guess.
Mr. Ewall: Sometimes you have communities that are
happy to embrace certain things. Sometimes change can be seeming jarring or
difficult, and so, your challenge I think as politicians is to figure out how can you do
that in a way that the community accepts and where they do not rise up and kick you
out of office because they are like, "Oh my God, you have changed my trash pick-up
to once every two (2) weeks, what am I going to do?" But, at the places that do that
though, let me explain that one because there are some that have twice a week pick
up and they go to once a week and the politicians are afraid, you know, like "Oh my
God," but there are places that go into trash pick-up that is bi-weekly and when they
do that in part, they do it not just to do it not just to save the collection costs, especially
if you are trying to increase and start a new collection, for example, doing recycling
and composting curbside, but they find that is a great way to get people composting
because people are at first will go crazy and say, "What? My trash is going to stink
the house in two (2) weeks." Then you say, "Well, why are you putting the stinky
stuff in the wrong bin?" Then the lightbulb goes off and then the compost goes in the
right bin. That is one way to effectively do that and the Pay As You Throw is another
one that people and all decision-makers...their initial thought is, "It is going to seem
like a pay increase." You will just have to explain you are already paying for it, we
are just changing and giving you more control over how you pay for it. There is one
more piece in there, I just forgot it. If it comes back I will...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: Can you explain the Lifecycle Analysis?
Mr. Ewall: Yes.
Councilmember Carvalho: Can you explain that again?
Mr. Ewall: Sure. Lifecycle Analysis is where they look at
not just say, the incinerator and the landfill or the recycling system like they did for
Hawai`i Island, in like one piece, but they look at it more comprehensively, so they
look at the affects of recycling or reducing waste and how much harm is avoided and
it could be in other parts of the world. It could be manufacturing in China or mines
somewhere in some other county. But that mining and production is avoided when
you recycle or even better yet reduce the use, and so a Lifecycle Assessment captures
those benefits and says recycling has these benefits because that damage is not
happening. You also have things like when you make electricity in the incinerator
where there are two (2) bars in that chart I was showing you, that second one is after
they say, "Well they make electricity, so they do not have to make as much electricity
somewhere else." So, subtracting the harm that would happen from a natural gas
plant, of course, the emissions from the incinerator is so much greater than gas plant
that does not give that much of a...it is not a really overall benefit, but they still
subtract those emissions. Lifecycle Assessment builds the box bigger in terms of what
COUNCIL MEETING 42 OCTOBER 4, 2023
we are analyzing? Basically, what is the overall effect of this system? That is why it
is an Economist doing it too because all these are rooted in emissions data and actual
pounds of things burned and buried, so it is all science except for that last step is
putting a dollar value on it so you can look at it in one (1) chart and make it
understandable. So it is per ton of waste in one of the charts it is about four hundred
dollars ($400) per ton worth of health and environmental harm that you are not
paying for in your trash bills, but it is something that people are paying for in medical
bills or in having to adapt to global warming, that sort of thing.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember DeCosta followed by
Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember DeCosta: Yes, and I am sorry to beat the dead horse,but
since you did bring it up about only dealing with the United States. You know, it is
funny because I have an Economics degree, so I know nothing about trash and the
environment, but I have been my phone with my consultant friend who is currently
working on the largest solid waste renovation project in Downtown Los Angeles,
California, at a solid waste landfill and he is texting me about Japan's JFE
Engineering Corporation. It is the Japan Iron Corporation who does clean air and
incineration and they deal with God knows how many billions of people in their
country. When you go to Japan, it is probably the cleanest city. I understand you
have a background, but you have not reached out to other countries, so I am going to
ask you a question. Is it safe to say that maybe the United States does not have the
answer, but is the answer in other countries like Japan? Would you be willing to
maybe take some time and if I can give you the name of this corporation and you can
get in contact with them, and maybe they can convince you that your recycling where
we do not know where it is all going to go yet, and we have to change the behavior of
people now, we are talking about families where some people work two (2)jobs...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Councilmember DeCosta: ...so they do not have time to recycle or to
move their trash in different bins. Would you be willing to be receptive as to how
other countries like Japan is doing and maybe you can research it a little?
Mr. Ewall: I am happy to research it if you can tell me
where the plant is and get me their emissions data because they have emissions, but
it is impossible, they do not have different laws of physics in Japan. They have
emissions, it is just how many emissions per unit of energy or per ton of trash, either
way, happy to look at those numbers and compare them to facilities here. I was just
in a meeting with folks in New Zealand dealing with incinerators just a few days ago.
I am working internationally just not as much as I do in the United States, and trust
me, they do not have magical different "black boxes" in other countries that can just
turn bad things into good things. That does not exist and the longer that you think
that it does and pursue studying that, is time you are wasting to actually solving your
problem.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you for that, sir. You said that there is
no magic black box and trust you. I want to trust you, sir, but I asked you what were
COUNCIL MEETING 43 OCTOBER 4, 2023
your credentials to speak from this and not to be receptive of other countries that are
successful, but you do not have the criteria or the degree that should convince me to
trust you.
Mr. Ewall: Okay, bring in anyone you want, I will go
toe-to-toe with whoever. It does not matter what degrees they have, if there is
emissions data from these plants and that emissions data does exist, now they might
have all emissions data, because most of these do not monitor from most pollutants.
They usually monitor for three (3), but maybe in Japan they monitor a bunch more
and I hope they do, because I look forward to seeing their emissions data and
comparing it to the plants here.
Councilmember DeCosta: Yes, I am on close, please, thank you. I do not
want toe-to-toe with you...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Questions on the presentation?
Councilmember DeCosta: I would like to solve our problem on-Kaua`i. I
would like to solve our landfill problem and that is what we would like to do so we
can be receptive and we all can work collaboratively together with your ideas and
ideas from other successful counties, and maybe we can solve our problem. You came
here today to solve our problem.
Mr. Ewall: There are a lot of successful countries—Japan
is not the best example, in general. There are communities in Japan that are
diverting ninety percent (90%), so there are some communities, but as a country, no,
they are not one of the better ones, but there are a lot of good examples out there, but
I think what you are looking at, Japan is not an example.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for highlighting the critical
situation...we have a very short window left. Anaerobic digesters that just follows
into all of the rest of this too, because it breaks it up too fine? Would that be correct?
Mr. Ewall: No, I am glad you asked that though. If I can
explain what that does because that could be part of the solution.
Councilmember Cowden: It does not sound like a bad idea.
Mr. Ewall: Right. It is fundamentally different from an
incinerator or plasma gasification-style incinerator or these other wasted fuel
schemes. Digestion is basically like composting in a vessel. You could do that for the
organic fraction in municipal waste. It does not make sense to throw plastics, metal,
and gas in there and it is not going to help anyone. For the organic faction, you can
put that in there and that should be done before you landfill that residual. This is
for the dirty stuff. If it is clean, it just goes straight to aerobic composting and save
all the money because that digestion is expensive. The organic faction in municipal
waste, doing that that is actually part of the Zero Waste hierarchy. That last step,
COUNCIL MEETING 44 OCTOBER 4, 2023
you see the orange bar, includes what the biological stabilization and that means that
to avoid having a gassy, stinky landfill, you put those organic residuals in a digester,
and then what comes out has already done most of its breaking down, and therefore,
your landfill is going to be safer and you will get some energy off it in the process.
Councilmember Cowden: I would like to pose selfish pragmatism just
owning that. We do not have enough time and we do not have enough places.
Gratitude to the community of Kekaha. They are on the Westside of our island, they
are for the most part downwind and so where we are looking at putting the next
landfill, it is even further toward the Mana plain. It is hard on everyone, but visualize
that the wind blows from east to west and this is on the most Westside, so when I try
and look at these different solutions, they have scrubbers and pieces to try and help
minimize it and as selfish as it sounds, we have thousands of miles between anyone
down wind. I think sometimes the argument can be made that it will dissipate over
thousands of miles of ocean. You see that is not true for the garbage that floats
around in those (inaudible), right? That did not work, but what do you have to say
about that? If whatever is coming out beyond the scrubbers and it blows downwind?
Mr. Ewall: In O`ahu I was dealing with the same story. I
was talking to folks in the Pearl City Neighborhood Board and they, in general, the
Campbell Industrial Park there blows most of the stuff out to sea, but the winds
sometimes shift, and so the Kona winds...the chair of that board, after I was going to
do a brief presentation there, said, "Yeah, when those winds shift, it comes right down
the valley and right to my house and I have asthma," and he was talking about how
much of a problem that is for him and there were others who were expressing similar
things in the community. The winds is not always going where you want and as
global warming changes the trade winds to some extent, you might find that
happening more frequently, but as far of where our landfill should go, picking the dry
side of an island does make a lot more sense. It will minimize the leachate problems
that you would have, and odors and gases.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Members, if there are no further questions
while the rules are still suspended, do we have anyone signed up to give testimony?
Is there anyone in the audience wishing to give testimony? Please come forward.
Thank you, Mr. Ewall.
Mr. Ewall: Thank you so much.
RUTA JORDANS, Zero Waste Kaua`i: Hi, I am Ruta Jordans from Zero
Waste, Kaua`i and I just wanted to answer Councilmember Bulosan's question about
composting. Do you know about the Institute for Local Self Reliance (ILSR)? They
have people throughout the country...if you look at their map of community
composting, it is throughout the mainland. I did not see anything on Hawai`i, but
throughout the mainland there is community composting, so if you are interested
in...which I totally agree with you...we need composting throughout. We cannot have
it just at Heart & Soul Organics for food waste. We should have it like we have for
green waste that we have composting all over. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 45 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Anyone else from the audience
wishing to testify? Mr. Sykos, come forward.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. It is very
interesting here. I am like twenty (20) years sitting in this chair on this same issue.
It helps to not get stuck in the weeds. On Johnston Island, the Federal government
disposed of chemical and neuro-weapons, which they did by incineration, and so that
incineration process was so hot that it literally split the molecules apart and that is
how they inactivated the nerve gas and the other agents were the actual molecules
were destroyed and thus, the amount of ash that was left was very small because it
was a small amount of material that they were actually destroying. The problem is
was that in order to destroy the amount of material in a single artillery shell was like
enough electricity to run a moderate city overnight. For us to generate enough
electricity to run an incinerator that is capable of processing that much material in a
short period of time is like science fiction. If this technology existed, the people that
owned it would be out hawking it all over the world and people would be doing it. I
met the late former Councilmember Tim Bynum in Safeway and the reason I met
Tim Bynum in Safeway, I had no idea who he was, but a constituent came up and
started talking landfill with him at which point I realized he was a councilmember
and introduced myself. With the county struggles with is pulling the trigger on
getting a resource center where you separate stuff out and no matter what you think
the expense is today, the cost of shipping our trash off-island is going to be infinitely
more than whatever we spend today. I will come back for my next three (3) minutes.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify for the first time? If not, Mr. Sykos, you can go for a second time.
Mr. Sykos: Here is the thing, Tim Bynum and I, when we
would leave the island, no matter where in the world I go, I always try and go to the
landfill. It is interesting, right? As a boy, you get big machines and all that stuff, but
aside from it, you can talk to the employees and you can talk to the consumers that
are there and get ideas. Both my mom and my dad come from communities that are
quite similar to Kaua`i and the number of people one hundred (100) miles from a
major city, we have barges, they have trains, and so thirty (30) years ago they were
where we are today...we are actually thirty (30) years ago they were where we were
thirty (30) years ago. What they did was the economic cycles where they bought
warehouses that were relatively inexpensive because they bought them on the down
cycle and in the inside of the warehouse they turned into their recycling center. You
drive up, they have three (3) employees, they unload your vehicle for you, they take
electronic waste, they have two (2) machines that do compacting and bailing—one for
plastics, one for metals, they have a train that comes every so often and hauls the
stuff away, we would ship it out on barge, and it does not matter that we would
actually pay someone...instead of getting paid for our plastic, we would pay someone
to take it off our hands, which is how much cheaper than a new landfill? If we had
started twenty (20) years ago getting all the organic material out of the dump, we
would not be in the bind today, we would still have a couple years on top of our
current...if we just got five percent (5%) diverted, how far ahead would we be today?
When they started these programs, the local community much of it was really
unhappy and to make it work they attached if you keep messing up you are going to
COUNCIL MEETING 46 OCTOBER 4, 2023
get fined. This was back when they had Polaroid camera, so they went around with
a pick-up truck and a trailer and you put out these bins that had paper, that had
metal and they would sort all this.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as not present.)
Mr. Sykos: If you messed up, they would take a picture
and mailed it to you and within two (2) years, the community was totally behind
recycle all your stuff, keep it out of the landfill, and hey, we just saved sixty million
dollars ($60,000,000). Neither of those communities built a new landfill. That is
when we went back in and harvested their garbage. Pulled all this steel out and were
able to separate the aluminum because of the difference in weight and all these
things, and are still using the same landfill that they had instead of building a new
one. We have to pull the trigger here on something. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify for the second time? No. Thank you. Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Cowden: Is it okay if I call up the Department of Public
Works?
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We can go back to questions. Well, this was
not their presentation. What kind of question do you have? Maybe you can ask them
offline?
Councilmember Cowden: I will ask offline.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Members, is there any further
discussion? Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: I just want to mahalo Mr. Ewall for traveling
and sharing your information. Sometimes one of the challenges as an island is access
to information, so I appreciate your presentation.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Mine is simple. I thank you also. This is a
really grueling problem and we are working on it and your input is valued. We are
trying and struggling just to open a new landfill, it is a problem. It is hard to have
confidence that we can send these things somewhere else. We have to figure out how
to recycle on-island is what I think, or not bringing it here in the first place.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I kind of agree with Councilmember Cowden.
In the mainland, some of the communities that have failed in recycling, they call it
COUNCIL MEETING 47 OCTOBER 4, 2023
"wish-cycling," because you wish that it will work, but then you...like Sacramento, I
think their experience, having to truck what they sorted out all the way to North
Carolina and it is ridiculous. We are all part of the United States of America, right?
So we are going to ship our problem to another state who has plenty of room and they
end up burying it because it is just piling up. Not being turned into the product that
they wanted to produce, but I guess Sacramento is paying them enough to take it in
and stockpile and probably bury it. So, it sounds great, but we are an island state
remember, we are not part of the mainland United States with some options to ship
it, and then turn it back into plastic or back into some type of materials that can be
reused. We are an island state. We have to barge that thing from here to Honolulu,
then from Honolulu all the way to the mainland and then truck it to wherever it has
to go. That is a lot of fossil fuel.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as present.)
Councilmember Kagawa: A lot of money. Taxpayer money that is going
to be spent in a program that maybe would be "wish-cycling." I hate to put our
taxpayers...we are going to make this big change and we wish...I would like to be
sure if we pull the trigger on some of these things and I am not the one to be sure. I
am no engineer, I am a school teacher. We have Engineers in the department. Please
convince our engineers that we have the evidence, we have the proof that whatever
direction we move, we are going to do it and it is going to be a lot better than a wish
and I truly support that we need to look at all options thoroughly because we do not
want to a landfill, so let us look at Kekaha, I mean, it used to be a little bump and
now it is a big mountain right next to the ocean. Pretty sad when you think about it.
It used to be my surfing spot back there. It is much too close to the ocean, much too
high, much too wide, much too everything, but again, I have not seen how do we take
care of our trash in an island state? How do we do it? How do we manage it properly?
And when I get those answers, I am willing to pull the trigger, but I am not willing
to pull any trigger on a wish. Thank you, Council Vice Chair Kuali`i.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: Just wanted to follow up on the discussion. I
have not been involved in this for a numerous years, but the siting of the landfill here
on Kaua`i, it is an island setting, I appreciate your presentation, by the way, but at
the same time, the siting of the landfill is a big part. We have endangered species
that is another part, there was the big birds and all kinds of issues that came about
as well and what the next steps would be. I think moving in the right direction, we
are way overdue, we have to come together and make the final decision. What is the
best fit for our island of Hawai`i. We have heard all the numerous discussions and
all the presentations, but what is it? I think that is where I am at trying to figure out
what is the best way to handle our waste. I know that we have a Pay As You Throw
program that is in place, okay, that is fine, but it is just a little of the bigger picture.
I just wanted to share that. Whatever we need to put on the table working with our
Department of Public Works, Administration, and coming up with a final decision
that will really impact our island, our people, and how we are going to move forward
COUNCIL MEETING 48 OCTOBER 4, 2023
because remember again, Mr. Ewall, we are an island setting so it is kind of different
in how we have to look forward to the future. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Very interesting topic. I did not quite hear
what Councilmember Kagawa fully said, but at the tail end I believe he is looking out
for our constituents and the cost of recycling and I agree with him. I will not support
something that is going to make our taxpayers have to pay more to live month-to-
month. Our people are struggling, you folks...struggling, so unless the answer is
something where our people can afford it, you know sometimes we sit here and we
come up with these great solutions that fits our pocketbook, because we are
financially at a different hierarchy than the rest of our constituents on Kaua`i. I have
done a lot of research...the Department of Public Works is my department actually
and I do not look at too much of what happens in our United States because our
United States, the only other place that has an island I believe is outside of Alaska
and I think Long Island. Most of our states is not an island. When you look across
globally, you have many different small islands in Indonesia, Japan, you have some
small islands outside. I am working actually with a company, JFE Japan Iron, it is
an engineering corporation. One of their doctoring degrees in environmental science
sits on the UN Board of the United Nations, so I do have some contacts that we have
made when we go to our conferences. I would like to share with Zero Waste if you
folks would like to, but it seems like you folks have your minds set on recycling and
in Japan recycling is part of this thing. They separate all of their things before it goes
to their incinerator. There is a lot of good product that can come out of an incinerator
and with our EPA and Department of Health throughout the UN nations they are not
letting these incinerators operate if it is going to cause any kind of global warming.
The whole world is aware of that. I appreciate your knowledge and what we had
shared today. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you Councilmember DeCosta. Let me
close by saying mahalo nui loa to Council Chair Rapozo, to Zero Waste Kaua`i and
Kokua Na Aina for bringing Mr. Mike Ewall before us today from Beyond Burning. I
appreciate the detailed information you provided. I especially appreciate the science
and the data and that you have even given us some of the websites and some of your
presentation here and we can follow-up with that. I also appreciate the extra slides
that you provided for additional information. I know you planned a lot in your time
and I appreciate the thorough and thoughtful answers to all of our questions. Thank
you so much. I think we have learned so we can do better. We have an excellent
Solid Waste Division, part of our Public Works Department. Allison Fraley, Acting
Environmental Services Manager and her team there and then Zero Waste Kaua`i
keeps engaged with us and keeps us informed and keeps us on our toes and keep
doing that. Thank you, Ruta Jordans and Zero Waste Kaua`i.
The motion to receive C 2023-221 for the record was then put, and carried by a
vote of 6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Motion carries. Next item, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 49 OCTOBER 4, 2023
C 2023-222 Communication (09/27/2023) from the County Clerk,
transmitting for Council consideration, A Bill For An Ordinance Amending
Ordinance No. B-2023-891, As Amended, Relating To The Operating Budget Of The
County Of Kaua`i, State Of Hawai`i, For The Fiscal Year July 1, 2023 Through
June 30, 2024, By Revising The Amounts Estimated In The General Fund, to cover
$61,400.00 of additional costs associated with the external auditor's work to complete
the County's Annual Comprehensive Financial Report for Fiscal Year 2023.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Members, this is our Communication on the
Bill that is coming up for first reading, shortly.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2023-222 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions at this time? We can
hold them for the Bill? While the rules are still suspended, do we have anyone signed
up for testimony? Anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Members, final
discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to receive C 2023-222 for the record was then put, and carried by a
vote of 6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Motion carries. Next item, please.
C 2023-223 Communication (09/27/2023) from Council Chair Rapozo,
transmitting for Council consideration, A Bill For An Ordinance Authorizing The
Procurement Of The Services Of A Contract Auditor And Approving A Contract For
A Contract Auditor From Appropriations Of A Later Fiscal Year For More Than One
Fiscal Year.
Councilmember Carvalho moved to receive C 2023-223 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: While the rules are suspended, do we have
anyone signed up for testimony? Anyone in the audience wishing to testify?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to receive C 2023-223 was then put, and carried be a vote of 6:0:1
(Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Motion carries. Next item, please.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
COUNCIL MEETING 50 OCTOBER 4, 2023
PUBLIC SAFETY & HUMAN SERVICES COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PSHS 2023-03) submitted by the Public Safety & Human
Services Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"PSHS 2023-02 — Communication (07/26/2023) from Councilmember
Bulosan, requesting the presence of the Executive on Aging, Hawai`i Foodbank
Kaua`i, and the Kaua`i Independent Food Bank, to provide a briefing regarding
food insecurity on Kaua`i among kupuna and others, and partnerships with
local foodbanks,"
Councilmember Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this item or any discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried be a vote of
6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion is carries. Next item.
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE:
A report (No. CR-COW 2023-11) submitted by the Committee of the Whole,
recommending that the following be Approved as Amended on second and final
reading:
"Bill No. 2906 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2023-891, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE
OPERATING BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII,
FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2023 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2024, BY
REVISING THE AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND
(Constituent Staff Support -$500,000),"
Councilmember Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this item or any discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried be a vote of
6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
COUNCIL MEETING 51 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Next item, please.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2023-60 — RESOLUTION URGING THE STATE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO CONTINUE TO CONTRACT WITH
AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE TO PROVIDE EMERGENCY-MEDICAL
SERVICES IN THE COUNTY OF KAUAI
Councilmember Carvalho moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2023-60,
seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This is a Resolution from
Councilmember Kagawa and Councilmember Cowden. Councilmember Cowden, you
had a Floor Amendment?
Councilmember Cowden moved to amend Resolution No. 2023-60, as
circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Cowden: A simple housekeeping measure. You will see
in the first paragraph where is says, "Whereas, the Department of Health," there is a
missing"L" in the word "Heath." It is correcting that. In the last paragraph when it is
naming who to send this Resolution to, it removes the name Errol McGowan as the
President of the Kaua`i Paramedics Association because he is retired now and we just
determined it was really just going to the Kaua`i Paramedics Association rather than
specifying individuals. These are very simple changes.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to amend Resolution No. 2023-60, as circulated, and as shown in
the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1 was then put,
and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: So, we are at the Resolution as amended, do
you, Councilmember Cowden and Councilmember Kagawa want to say a little bit?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, we seem to have some interest from the
public. The public is probably curious as to what this Resolution is doing? Is it
making a decision against our present company and former company? I would like
to have the Resolution read, it will not take that long just so the public knows.
Councilmember Cowden: Do you want to read it or would you like me
to?
Councilmember Kagawa: I do not want to read it.
COUNCIL MEETING 52 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: You do not want to read it?
Councilmember Kagawa: I would prefer someone else read it.
Councilmember Cowden: I will read it. I am just turning to it.
"RESOLUTION URGING THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO
CONTINUE TO CONTRACT WITH AMERICAN MEDICAL RESPONSE TO
PROVIDE EMERGENCY-MEDICAL SERVICES IN THE
COUNTY OF KAUAI
WHEREAS, under Section 321-228, Hawai`i Revised Statutes, the State
Department of Health may contract to provide emergency-medical services, including
ambulance service, in any county; and
WHEREAS, American Medical Response (AMR), has provided
emergency-medical services in the County of Kaua`i for the past forty-four (44) years;
and
WHEREAS, AMR has provided a high quality of care and has become
accustomed to the County's people, culture, and communities; and
WHEREAS, AMR's standard is to provide each ambulance unit with at least
one paramedic and all necessary supplies and equipment for advanced-life support;
and
WHEREAS, an advanced-life-support unit, staffed by at least one paramedic,
provides a higher level of service than a basic-life support unit, which may not be
staffed by a paramedic; and
WHEREAS, paramedics can:
• Apply extensive knowledge and experience to conduct an advanced
assessment of a patient;
• Insert breathing tubes in patients with respiratory failure and treat
life-threatening lung collapse;
• Use electrocardiograms to identify and respond to potentially
life-threatening cardiac conditions; and
• Insert intravenous and administer life-saving medications; and
WHEREAS, the Department of Health support and continuation is critical to
the only approved paramedic training center in the State of Hawai`i; and
WHEREAS, residents and visitors of the County of Kaua`i have been
guaranteed that an advanced-life-support unit would respond to their 9-1-1 call
because of AMR's long-standing contract with the Department of Health; and
WHEREAS, on June 2, 2023, the Department of Health put out for bid the
emergency-medical services contract for the County of Kaua`i; and
COUNCIL MEETING 53 OCTOBER 4, 2023
WHEREAS, the Department of Health advised prospective bidders that a
minimum level of advanced-life-support coverage was not required; and
WHEREAS, without a minimum level of coverage, ambulance units may not
be staffed by paramedics or provide advanced-life-support services; and
WHEREAS, on August 29, 2023, Falck Northwest Corporation was awarded
the contract for emergency-medical services in the County of Kaua`i from
December 28, 2023 to June 30, 2027; and
WHEREAS, according to press accounts, Falck Northwest Corporation has a
recent history of substantial fines by California municipalities for failing to meet
response times; and
WHEREAS, the Department of Health has not publicly released the contract
with Falck Northwest Corporation, and it is unclear how ambulances in the County
of Kaua`i will be staffed; now, therefore,
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI,
STATE OF HAWAII, that it urges the State Department of Health to continue to
contract with American Medical Response to provide emergency-medical services in
the County of Kaua`i; and
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that a certified copy of this Resolution shall be
transmitted to Honorable Governor Josh Green, M.D., Honorable Lieutenant
Governor Sylvia Luke; Kenneth S. Fink, MD, MGA, MPH, Director of Health; Debbie
Kim Morikawa, Deputy Director for Health Resources, Department of Health; Kauai
Paramedics Association; Tito Villanueva, Kauai Operations Manager, American
Medical Response; and Honorable Mayor Derek S.K. Kawakami."
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Other Councilmembers, are there
any questions for the two (2) introducers?
Councilmember Cowden: I had a comment.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Oh, you had more to say?
Councilmember Cowden: Well, just a comment.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: The island of Maui just went through this
very intense trauma. Sent and submitted a very similar one, and I would say that it
is really shocking to see this kind of decision made without any kind of interface with
our counties' elected officials or the public. Given that this is a three-month
timeframe to make that kind of change is really hard to understand how any new
applicant could come in and actually be able to pull it off. We have many people come
to us and not the least of which was the existing paramedics and EMTs, I have not
heard from a single one (1) that said they had been contacted for this change. This is
COUNCIL MEETING 54 OCTOBER 4, 2023
stronger than something I would normally say where we are telling the State who we
want to work with, but when they give us no time and no inquiry, we are just being
really clear.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Do you have anything further
before we take questions?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Thank you Council Vice Chair Kuali`i. I
wanted to do something about this problem stirred from receiving some emails on the
Monday after the Saturday that this occurred. It was a couple days later when I sent
some feelers out to our Kaua`i legislators. They just heard, as well, over the weekend
probably from similar emails. It was really quick that we heard this response from
AMR workers, just kind of concerned about the lack of transparency from the State
Department of Health, letting them know that they were going to do this contract in
a different manner. I think if you are serving the island for forty-four (44) years, you
deserve the level of transparency that is...and being public safety, and the past
performance where you deserve a higher level of transparency from the State
Department of Health in letting them know what the change is, you have competition,
and those things. It is not just acting as though it is the same bid going out and there
is really nothing to worry about. I think when it came to my level of attention, I think
we owe to the people of Kaua`i to say, "Hey, State Department of Health, I think you
messed up here. Why are your local workers that have been serving us for that long,
why are they concerned?" Again, it is the trust factor, lack of transparency and this
disregarding AMR's past performance and service and now going into a different
direction without having those levels of transparency performed. It is nothing
against Falck—I thank Mr. Newberry and Mr. Doug Chin for being here. Mr. Chin
has a lot of respect in the political community and has always served the State well,
but I think this is just a "stand up" for our workers, friends, and family we grew up
with and we need to make sure their jobs are secure, that they can continue to do the
work that they want to do, because not many people want to perform that kind of job
that is stressful, hard work, and it goes beyond just dollars on a contract. So, I think
that is where my heart is and I am willing to step up even though I do not know all
the facts, I am willing to stand behind this type of Resolution that again, stands
firmly behind the people I respect and live with. Thank you, Council Vice Chair
Kuali`i.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Members, are there any questions from the
two (2) introducers? We did hear a lot of thoughtful detailed and important testimony
earlier this morning. I am going to take testimony again from anyone who did not
have a chance or chose to wait to testify now. With no further questions from the
Members, while the rules are still suspended, do we have anyone else to testify? Do
we have folks in the audience wishing to testify? Please come forward and Mr. Sykos,
you are next.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
JEFF GOODMAN: My name is Jeff Goodman, I am a retired
physician on Kaua`i for over fifty (50) years and I have worked with emergency
services for over fifty (50) years. First off, I do not represent any particular
COUNCIL MEETING 55 OCTOBER 4, 2023
organization, any particular entity, business or otherwise, I represent myself and the
experience I have had on Kaua`i for this period of time. My observation of Emergency
Medical Services over the fifty (50)years, is basically this—is that it is very important
to treat the patient in the field, not only from a time perspective, but for a medical
level of care perspective. You save more people by stabilizing and evaluating in the
field than you do by just picking them up and bringing them into the hospital for basic
services. I think this also causes an effect on the time involved. If you do not treat
the patient in the field, it takes more time to go out and pick them up and take them
to the hospital. In other words, you are shifting the definitive care from the field to
the hospital. When you do that you create a totally different environment, in other
words, by shifting the care to the hospital, certain communities are going to get
definitive care faster than others and that is an inequality. I represent the North
Shore of Kaua`i, that is where I practiced, that is where I have lived for all this time.
I do not want to see a level of care that goes down in my community and lives lost of
my friends, my family, and the people I work with. That is what is going to be the
result if you do not have a high level of medical care in the field by our ambulance
personnel. The kind of care that AMR and services like that provide by having MICT
advanced medical care technology. I think it is a very unfortunate step backward, it
goes against everything we have tried to do for the last fifty-two (52) years in
emergency services and I think this Resolution needs to be passed in order to be able
to continue to give the excellent care to this island. Anything else is a step backward.
Please resolve this.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Mr. Sykos, please come forward.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I must say that
I have a completely different slant on this than much of what I have heard so far. I
am almost seventy (70) years old and I guarantee you that if I call the ambulance or
my neighbors or my family does, I could care less what name is painted on the outside
of the ambulance. Care less. When I worked at sea, when Search and Rescue arrived,
nobody cared which country's Coast Guard it was or what color the helicopter pilot
was, or his religion. You have conflated issues that you have a responsibility for as a
Council with issues that you do not have a direct relationship or responsibility for as
the Council. So, I have friends who work for AMR, I have friends retired from AMR,
I have no issue with AMR, but AMR, this contract is completely legal. This is the
completely normal State process for letting this contract out, and so if you have an
issue with the legality of what the State has done in the contract, bring those issues
forward. The fact that AMR has to compete with somebody else, that is not within
your purview as an agent of the government. The other company has every right to
come complete to get the job. So, your interfering on behalf of AMR is
anti-competitive, you might legally be allowed to do it because you are not the ones
paying AMR, but you are a subdivision of the State of Hawai`i and the State of Hawai`i
is the one that pays AMR, and thus, you have to ask how responsible is it for you to
be inserting yourself into the middle of the contract process. Now, what is a problem,
what is your kuleana and what bothers me about this, I have done my homework, I
went online, these allegations that this company is somehow egregiously incompetent
has to do with their staffing problems during COVID-19. The whole world had
staffing problems with COVID-19, the question is whether or not they can properly
do the job today. They are not the ones reducing the care in the ambulance, the State
COUNCIL MEETING 56 OCTOBER 4, 2023
of Hawai`i is. And so, this ought to be directed to the State and have nothing to do
with AMR and have everything to do with the fact that we want the additional level
of aide to arrive in the ambulance, not this new lower level, right? And it ought to be
"where is Senator Kouchi?" You ought to have Senator Kouchi in here today
explaining why the State wants to reduce our ambulance response. "Hey Ron, come
address us, please."
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Is there anyone else? Come
forward, Mr. Hart.
BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. In regards to
what Mr. Sykos said, I do not know a whole lot of what I would like to know to be able
to make a decision, but I asked and I was told it was a blind bid, that the bid went
out and nobody had discussion with the State—none of those that gave a bid, had a
discussion with the State. I do not think there is anything out of the ordinary or
nefarious going on with either bidder. The idea that the State should have been more
upfront or in communication with the bidders, I do not think is normal process. I do
not think they do that. Now, on what Mr. Sykos said about, I call it, "The bump in
the road," for this new applicant, that is the information that I received, that it is not
across the board and again with Mr. Sykos, I agree that the State has proposed to
lower the level of service that we are used to and I think we need to address the State.
We need to ask them respectfully, and maybe our State Representatives should tell
us why? Why have they decided to do this? Of course if you provide a lower level of
service you probably can get a lower bid, but is that in our best interest of our people?
I do not think so. Again, I think we need to focus on the State and ask them, "Hey,
how come this is happening?" Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Anyone else wanting to testify for
the first time? Is there anyone else wanting to come back for a second time?
Councilmember Cowden: Well, he was... Did you want to come for the
first time?
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you, Councilmember Cowden. Raise
your hand...step up...come on.
JULIAN NEWBERRY: I just wanted to reiterate the position
mentioned earlier. I know we have some new people in the room that were not
present. The same level of service, paramedic and EMT, will be delivered as part of
this new agreement. ALS and BLS was listed and I believe the speculation on the
BLS level of service stemmed from a question during the Question and Answer
process which is public record. We saw that there was one of the five (5) stations that
had two (2) units and we put in a question if it was a BLS because we were trying to
figure out where the BLS component was based on the title of the bid and that is
where it said it could be an optional position. This is going to be an ALS unit. All of
these ambulances will be staff with a paramedic and an EMT. I want to reassure
both the Council and the public that that is the case and especially the front line
because I do not want there to be anyone who thinks their job is at stake. We would
have prioritized hiring for all the incumbent work force that chose to come over to the
COUNCIL MEETING 57 OCTOBER 4, 2023
organization should we be successful and we would welcome them with open arms. I
also wanted to offer, that is if there are any clarifying questions that might exist.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a clarifying question.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay members, clarifying questions. Go
ahead Councilmember Cowden:
Councilmember Cowden: He is almost like an expert testifier.
Mr. Newberry: That is the first time I have been called that.
Councilmember Cowden: I am looking at the Falck statement, the
testimony. It is basically that you are going to maintain the current staffing or
staffing levels. Did you speak to any of the people that are in the positions that they
are in now?
Mr. Newberry: Upon award, when the notice was issued on
hands, attempted to reach out to each union leadership, advised them we are excited
by the news. We passed on our condolences, we did not want that to overshadow
impartiality that was existing due to the Maui County wildfires. We would advise
that we would provide more updates as soon as we got them. Since that moment, we
started to get rumors about the work force not being guaranteed a position,
diminished levels of care, being BLS as opposed to ALS. We felt it was necessary to
then issue a statement reiterating our position that we would recognized the current
CBA, current seniority, PTO accrual rates...
Councilmember Cowden: What is PTO?
Mr. Newberry: Paid Time Off. Other components of that
CBA would be offered.
Councilmember Cowden: What is CBA?
Mr. Newberry: Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, just use the real words. It is tiresome
to hear BLS, Basic Life Support. Okay, another question is when this, what I am
looking at, that you would be able to start operating within...that look like...a little
more than four (4) months of being...so did you folks have a plan of where you are
going to put your locations?
Mr. Newberry: We are certainly working Plan A, B, and C,
right now with local real estate. We are also, and have in the past, San Diego is an
example where we actually worked with the incumbent to facilitate a seamless
transition for the City of San Diego, and that was AMR. Now we might compete on
these opportunities, but when it comes to patient care and patient delivery, we
collaborate.
COUNCIL MEETING 58 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: So are you saying that you have been in
communication with the leadership of AMR for a seamless transition?
Mr. Newberry: No ma'am, I would assume that would be part
of our dialogue once the protest period is finalized.
Councilmember Cowden: Once the what is finalized?
Mr. Newberry: Once the protest period. If the protest
period...
Councilmember Cowden: The protest.
Mr. Newberry: Yes, ma'am.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, the protest. I just struggled to
understand what you said.
Mr. Newberry: To your point, that is Option "A." Should we
be successful, aside from that, we are currently and actively looking for solutions
within both Kaua`i County and Maui County.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The clarifying question you stated, you talked
to unions. Which unions did you speak to?
Mr. Newberry: I issued an email to both the Maui Paramedic
Association and the Kauai Paramedic Association.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Paramedic association.
Mr. Newberry: Yes, sir.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Are there other Members with
clarifying questions? Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I have a clarifying question, just because he
mentioned that Falck is in the San Diego area. Are you folks in more areas than
California? Are you across the United States?
Mr. Newberry: Yes, sir. We provide 9-1-1 ambulance services
at the ALS level for the City of San Diego and Alameda County. We also serve
Los Angeles County and Orange County. Outside of California, we provide 9-1-1
services for the City of Aurora, Colorado and Salem, Oregon.
Councilmember DeCosta: Chair, you can stop me if I am not asking a
clarifying question, but it is on my mind. I have to ask it.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: When he said X, Y, or Z, what did you mean?
That is a clarifying question.
COUNCIL MEETING 59 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember De Costa: Then I will stop.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay, thank you. Are there any further
clarifying questions? Thank you for your testimony.
Mr. Newberry: Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: I suppose the makers of the Resolution could
have set it up where you invited these people to be experts and then we would have
treated them differently.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. I did invite them.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Not to give testimony, but to be...I, as Vice
Chair, was not told that it would be treated as an expert to give questions to help the
two (2) of you, because you answered the questions. I am just saying in the future
that could have been such. I am treating everyone like a testifier and I am treating
them equally the same. Anyone else wishing to give testimony? For the first time?
Yes, second time. Anyone for the second time?
SPEEDY BAILEY: Thank you again for the support. I totally agree with
Councilmember Kagawa and Councilmember Cowden in your comments. It is not
between us at fault. That is not the issue. This is an issue that the Resolution points
towards the Department of Health where this decision was made. There is a lot of
reasons...we have a formal protest on file, I cannot discuss that. It is very detailed
and that is the process we are in. About a year ago, I approached the Department of
Health and said, "You missed it. You missed your deadline for doing a bid. We need
to extend the contract because you do not want to have any disruption of services." It
was October, they said, no, "We can do it, we can do it." In March they approached
me and said, "We need to extend your contract for six (6) months in order to get it
done." I said, "That is still not long enough. If you want to do this right, you probably
need about a year." They said, "No, we can do it." It is October, we have three (3)
months. This is the process. It needed to have more time and more due diligence in
order to make a decision at this magnitude and you know the magnitude of the
decision, it is a big change. It just needed to be done well, that is all.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: A clarifying question. It reminded me when
you introduced yourself, but you said, "We have a formal protest filed with AMR." So
you are the owner and operator of AMR?
Mr. Bailey: I am the Regional Director.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Regional Director, but you are speaking for
AMR.
Mr. Bailey: That is correct.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: A protest is filed.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Mr. Bailey: There is a protest process.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Any other clarifying questions?
Councilmember DeCosta: AMR is it a company? Is it a Kaua`i-based
company or Hawai`i-based?
Mr. Bailey: We are national-based.
Councilmember DeCosta: So you folks have other agencies in other
states like Falck?
Mr. Bailey: That is correct. We are probably the largest
national corporation of EMS, air and ground.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any other members with clarifying
questions? Is there anyone else who wishes to testify for a second time? Come
forward, please.
Mr. Goodman: I am amazed that people are telling you what
your job is. You know what your job is and I know what my job is. I can care less
about the contracts and the intermissions and the complaints and the protests. What
I am worried about is the medical care to the patients that I have taken care for
fifty (50) years. I am going to tell you, your responsibility is to those people. They
are your family, your friends, your colleagues, and your constituents. We have to give
them the top quality of medical care in the field with a reputable company and that
is all I care about. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Mr. Goodman, we have a clarifying question
from Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: You mentioned reputable. What can you tell
me about AMR versus Falck as far reputable?
Mr. Goodman: I cannot compare those. Reputable is I think
a term that is more of a qualification, certification type of process. I am not in a
position to certify or to...I know good medical care when I see it and we have gotten
good medical care really since 1972, when I was personally riding around in Cadillac
Station wagons with completely untrained individuals. We have sure come a long
way in that time. I do not want to see us going backwards at all. So, reputable I
think is one has a reputation, one that is more than just a fly-by-night organization
that is a one-stop show. Something that would be formed here on Kaua`i, that would
not have the qualifications. The State looks after those qualification and I think the
other people that have bid in this unfortunately set of circumstances where the State
tells us what kind of care we are going to get. The State, when you look at it, when
you are looking at Oahu with a majority of the population, they are all in close
quarters, they are all very close knit, the response times I am sure faster on O`ahu
than they are here on the North Shore of Kaua`i. We have a special situation. We
have to look out for ourselves and I think to have the State telling us what kind of
COUNCIL MEETING 61 OCTOBER 4, 2023
service we are going to get is...we have got to stand up and I will be personally ready
to stand up and testify to the statement in that response.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Anyone else from the audience
wishing to testify for a second time? Come forward, Mr. Sykos.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I would like to
state from my position, that your most important function is not being worried about
the individual care of patients. Your job is to see that the County is run as efficiently
as possible and what this Resolution should be about is...and if you want to take
exception with by saying that we should be run as efficiently as possible. We always
have to balance cost effectiveness and outcome. Obviously nobody wants anyone to
suffer harm, nobody want to suffer harm because of how long it took them to get to
the hospital, but we rely on ambulances, so you getting to the hospital is not going to
be that fast even if you are close. You cannot "beam me up Scotty." This needs to be
addressed with the State and at this point, I am completed unclear as to what the
actual facts are—whether or not the State intended to or accidentally reduced the
service level in the ambulance where this whole conversation about service level is
irrelevant because it was not changed. I am unclear on that, so that need should get
clarified because if I heard correctly, the State did not change the requirement I the
ambulance. If that is the case, I am not sure what the point of all this is. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Come on up, Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. I will say some of
what I said when I got here, I am not sure either. Has the State lowered the level of
service because I still do not understand? Can somebody tell us...is that a given fact?
If it is a given fact they have lowered the level of service without consulting us, then
I consider that a breach. We should have input. I do not think we are going to
decide... the State decides, but at least we could say that we do not want to lower our
level of service. Just like Mr. Sykos, I still do not know that it is happening. None of
this is personal. Like Mr. Sykos said, it does not matter to me whether it is AMR
that comes to my door or whether it is the new applicant. I want a level of service
just like the physician testified, but I still do not know whether that is an issue or
not. I do not think we can make the decision without knowing whether that is an
issue. Alright, thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Anyone else for a second time?
Okay.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We are going to get on discussion, but before
we do that, I have a question for the two (2) introducers. On the second page of the
Resolution, the two (2) "WHEREAS" that talk about the Department of Health
advised prospective bidders that a minimum of advanced-life-support coverage was
not required. That is one (1). And then the other one (1), "WHEREAS" without a
minimum level of coverage, ambulance units may not be staffed by paramedics or
COUNCIL MEETING 62 OCTOBER 4, 2023
provide advance-life-support services. What can you tell us to make those statements
true when we heard from the testifier with Falck that they were actually doing these
things? Did you get this information from the Department of Health?
Councilmember Cowden: Did you want to start with
Councilmember Kagawa or do you want me to...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Either. You are the introducers.
Councilmember Cowden: This came...basically we worked with Maui of
what they had. I made a number of calls right away when we first got these letters.
I sent a letter basically to the State government saying, "Hey, we need a public
process." It was not nearly as strong as this. We need a public process. I also saw at
the same time that same week the State says, "We are no longer going to sponsor
neighbor islands with that two thousand dollars ($2,000) a month for their paramedic
training." It seemed like there were changes, so they basically said they cannot
answer anything while there is a protest underway. Now, Councilmember Kagawa
was the original introducer and this came from the Maui documents. There was
intention to have alignment, we understand that the Council Resolutions have
little...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: It is non-binding.
Councilmember Cowden: It is non-binding and certainly talking to the
attorney about it. And this is not against Falck. It is against the process. The process
was not open, was not transparent, it was not inclusive to the public, it was not
inclusive to the elected representatives of the public to just have this sprung with
such a narrow window that any of us who have any experience in business as I do,
realistic understanding of what it is to be in business, you cannot set something up
in this time window. When Mr. Bailey said it takes a year, it is not easy to do
something in a year. When I saw that Maui was so strong where they are saying,
"Hey, we want to stick with our existing..."
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden, you are drifting
away from the question. So the question was...so you did not talk to them.
Councilmember Cowden: When I sent the letter over, they said that
they cannot give us any information.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Also on your WHEREAS, that says, on
June 2, 2023, they put out a bid. Could you get a copy of that bid? It would say right
in there whether they required advanced-life-support coverage or not. Did you get a
copy of the bid?
Councilmember Cowden: No, I did not.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am told that the Request for Proposal (RFP)
had not written percentage and/or ratio written BLS versus ALS. That again, we did
COUNCIL MEETING 63 OCTOBER 4, 2023
not verify that personally, but we were told that...so it opens the door to the winning
company to go either or on that.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Or that a paramedic would be required to be...
Councilmember Kagawa: It had no written percentage on...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: What does written percentage mean?
Councilmember Kagawa: On the BLS or ALS requirement. Whereas in
the past it was in there, but that was taken out.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden, you also mentioned
something about Maui and I just learned from a couple Maui councilmembers that in
fact their resolution has been passed on to the Committee to work on it further. They
did not pass theirs yet either. Did you know that?
Councilmember Kagawa: I did not know that.
Councilmember Cowden: No.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: I think I am going to ask a question of the
County Attorney. County Attorney Matthew A. Bracken, I know that you review our
resolutions. We had at least one testifier express concern that we are kind of delving
into an area where the State makes these decisions and I think that he even used the
word "legal." Can you tell us what the...everything is fine with this Resolution and
we are not clear on these two WHEREAS, should we be saying that if we did not
actually look at the bid. A Resolution is non-binding, but it should be as much as
possible, factual, and correct?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MATTHEW A. BRACKEN, County Attorney: Yes, I would agree. I
mean it is a non-binding resolution, but you ideally want it to be as factual as possible.
When I say non-binding, each resolution can be a little bit different. In this situation
we are talking about a State procurement process. It is non-binding in that no matter
what happens to this Resolution, the reality is that the State cannot consider it. It is
in a bid protest process, it has to follow State procurement laws and procurement
does not allow outside influence anyway, so no matter what statements are made,
procurement-wise the State has to ignore it. The bid protest process has to be ignored
in that process, the procurement process has to be ignored in that process too. The
State has to follow State law and the procurement code is set up in a way that it
cannot be influenced by outside factors. That is the way it is set up, so it cannot be
influenced by outside factors.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: In my question to them about it was put out
to bid by the Department of Health on June 2, 2023, and then these two (2)
statements, WHEREAS, talk about advanced-life-support coverage not being
COUNCIL MEETING 64 OCTOBER 4, 2023
required and that there may be no paramedic staff, you did not necessarily check this
for being factual or not?
Mr. Bracken: Correct, it was not checked for factual
accuracy.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay. Any other questions for
Councilmember Cowden?
Councilmember Cowden: I have a question.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you. We have basically two (2)
interactions on the legality of this because I did check that even as late as yesterday.
How does the law allow something this important with the procurement process...
where is there anything that allows public input on something this big? I basically
was told that I cannot get any information through the Department of Health. They
were not going to give me anything.
Mr. Bracken: I can understand their position. When a bid
protest occurs, it is a due process. It is kind of a due process hearing. So the person
who is protesting the bid has an opportunity to state why the procurement or that
the faults in the procurement that they saw and then the Department of Health has
to then defend their procurement process. It is in administrative litigation, so them
not wanting to say anything while they are in administrative litigation makes sense.
Generally, we would do the same. We would generally try not to comment on
litigation and that is what they are in. It is an administrative process. That is
probably why they do not want to comment. Sorry, I know that is not...
Councilmember Cowden: They did not want to comment or give
information. When we are looking at facing something, and this is again, not a slam
to Falck, and I called Falck to have them be represented here. How is there some
sort of due process for the citizen to have their elected representatives be number 1,
aware, and working to protect them, and when we see they have made a change, and
the State has even made a change to not be supporting the training of our paramedics,
what is the right process, the legal process to do our job to ensure the public safety of
our citizens?
Mr. Bracken: We are talking about a State procurement
process. The procurement code is set up in a way that it is public. Procurement
documents are made public, the procurement process is all public. The State will say,
"Okay we need this kind of service," and they will put together the various
requirements they need for that service and they will publish it to the public. But if
it is part of the public procurement system gets notified and then they bid on it. The
procurement process is a very public process. It is meant to be that way.
Councilmember Cowden: Is it like in the classified section on page C3 of
the Star Advertiser? Is it legal fiction that it comes out to the public if they do not
COUNCIL MEETING 65 OCTOBER 4, 2023
even actually tap the Committee Chair Public Safety on the shoulder and say, "This
is what we are doing in your community?" Are you aware and paying attention, like
I contacted Falck?
Mr. Bracken: Again, we are kind of talking about a State
process because it is the State that has authority over this. So, really it is the State
Department of Health that would be doing...they are the ones creating the scope of
work, essentially what they need from the service providers and they are bidding that
out. The people who are notified, it is not really through...it would be on the State
Procurement website when they put out the procurement. That is one way the public
can be made aware of it. A lot of service providers across the nation...if they are doing
the service all over the nation, they actually will reach out and be a part and will be
notified when the State puts out these kinds of procurements, so that is one way
people are notified. It is really people who are looking for government contracts that
ask to be notified because that is what we are talking about here is a government
contract.
Councilmember Cowden: Do we know if there has been any kind of
advertisement for this or any sort of this in the process?
Mr. Bracken: It would have had been put out, I mean, it is
public procurement, right, so it would have been put out by the State on their websites
and it would have notified everyone who is on their list.
Councilmember Cowden: But not to the common person. You would
have to know to look.
Mr. Bracken: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes. Okay.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you Mr. Bracken. I am a little
concerned also about some of the WHEREAS' in this Resolution, especially the one
that states that the level of care on the ALS versus the BLS. When you looked at this
and if we approve it today, does Falck have grounds to be concerned that we had
approved something that is not factual and does it open a door where Falck might
pursue the legality of this Resolution. Does it leave an open door for some kind of
action that Falck could take?
Mr. Bracken: We call them non-binding resolutions because
they have no binding affect. This affects nothing. The State cannot take it into
consideration, it is nothing but a political statement, but even saying that, even
saying that, yes, a resolution still should be factually accurate, because it is
something that you and every other councilmember will be adopting as your voice.
Depending on how you vote, that is your voice. So, should Resolutions be factually
accurate? Yes, especially if you are signing off on it. On another level on it too of do
we have to the concerned about some sort of...defamation is not the right word, but
COUNCIL MEETING 66 OCTOBER 4, 2023
there is always concern that if it is not accurate they could assert something against
the County. In this situation, it is written, you would be looking at libel.
Councilmember DeCosta: When you looked at this Resolution, you do
not know if the level of care of the ALS versus BLS is actually in that RFP or State
bid that is going on right now. We do not know that, right?
Mr. Bracken: I do not know. When we review resolutions,
sometimes we check it for factual accuracy, not always. If we cannot find the
information to dispute one way or another, I am not going to comment on it, but when
I do receive a resolution, to some extent we do factually check it, but when the
information is not available, I cannot comment on it—so I do not.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Any other councilmembers have questions for
the County Attorney? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: If the RFP, in fact, had no percentage or ratio
written whether you needed to do the BLS or ALS, would it be inaccurate for this
WHEREAS to be stated? I think it is accurate if it says WHEREAS, the Department
of Health advised prospective bidders that a minimum level of advanced-life-support
coverage was not required. That is what the RFP is saying, you can go either way,
whereas I think one company decided to bid on doing what they did for the past
contracts and now we have a new bidder that we do not know what they bid on. He
stated here that they intend to fund the most highly wanted...he is nodding...but I
do not think the WHEREAS is wrong because the Department of Health did not say
what the minimum percentage should have been. I think it is actually factual. I
think that this WHEREAS has nothing wrong with it. We are not presuming that
Falck bid it, if you read between the lines the statement of AMR, then it is maybe an
assumption that one could make, but to me this WHEREAS is not unfactual.
Mr. Bracken: I personally cannot comment without seeing
the RFP, but RFPs generally, it is just setting your standard, like this is the minimum
of what we need, and then people can come in and offer more or above that standard.
That is minimum requirements.
Councilmember Kagawa: That is why I am talking about the
transparency part. Would the State Department of Health have an obligation to at
least communicate to AMR that, "Hey, one company that may bid without having
that advanced support," because it is not stated knowing that the level of service has
been provided in the current contract. I do not know, for me we are talking about
what level of service would be we getting up to now and then now this bid comes out
and, oh, you may not have to abide the level that...and that is where the concern is
coming from the public.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: You did say that they are in this bid protest
process now and that during this time they would not even look at our Resolution as
not only is it non-binding, but they just cannot look at it, or just...
COUNCIL MEETING 67 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Mr. Bracken: That is correct. They cannot look at it. If they
protest, it is...yes, they cannot look at it. They really can only look at the
procurement. In bid protest process, if it is administrative initially, and then it can
be appealed to court. So it can end up in court, but it starts as an administrative
proceeding before the Chief Procurement Officer of the State, I am assuming. That
is how it happens in the County, right? The bid protest goes before the Chief
Procurement Officer, administratively, and then it can be appealed to the court.
When they are doing that, they are just looking at the procurement documents and
then the actual protest and what they are protesting, and then they will be analyzing
that very small issue and they would not look at outside factors, because it would be
inappropriate.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This bid protest could go on what is like the
short period and the long period?
Mr. Bracken: I would think a short period would be
three (3) months and then if it is appealed to Circuit Court, then you are talking about
six (6) months on top of that. Realistically, probably about nine (9) months and from
there it can be appealed further, as well, but through Circuit Court, I think about
nine (9) months.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: My last question is if we were to defer this for
a little bit, would you be able to get a copy, as our attorney, of the June 2, 2023
Department of Health's bid so that we can confirm that those two (2) WHEREAS' are
factually accurate or not?
Mr. Bracken: It should be a public record so there should
not really be any impediment to getting that document.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay. Thank you. Do you have a question?
Councilmember Cowden: I do not have a question.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay, thank you, County Attorney. Do you
want to say final discussion?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: Either if we come back after break, I have
some amendments that I am thinking of working on or if the body would like to defer
it.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: I do not think there is any hurry.
Councilmember Cowden: If the body would like to defer it, I can
introduce the amendments.
COUNCIL MEETING 68 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember DeCosta moved to defer Resolution No. 2023-60 and failed for
a lack of a second.
Councilmember Cowden: Can I have a conversation?
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: If the motion to defer passes, there can be no
discussion.
Councilmember Cowden: I have amendments...
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We heard that.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, and so I am pretty clear about the
direction I want to go in today, but I am willing to do a deferral and do an amendment.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay. Anybody else have something to say
before we take the motion to defer? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I do not see any major problem with the
Resolution and I do not see a need to defer. I am concerned that with such a big
change that the State Department of Health management decided to go in
that...again, the lack of transparency...even our representatives at the State,
including Senate President did not know until the Monday after the Saturday was
brought up to the AMR and our workers. I mean it just baffles me that the level of
transparency is missing and then doing with this Resolution, I am doing exactly what
Mr. Sykos is saying. This is not on Falck. This is on the Department of Health who
should have done a better job and now they find themselves in a protest situation and
I am willing to stand by the fact that this Resolution will say to the State Department
of Health that you need to treat these types of RFPs with more attention and care
because this is a huge difference in what may be able to allow Falck...if it becomes "a
profit and loss" thing that they are able to provide less than what we are getting now
and that concerns me enough to stand behind a Resolution like this and deferring it
will not change the fact that I feel this way, that the State messed up on the process
and that their decision has possibly impacted the future of our emergency services. I
am willing to stand by and I do not see a need to defer or amend, but I will do what
the group wants.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I am on the same page as
Councilmember Kagawa. I have little amendments that I could make that would
take out any of that lack of clarity that could be there, but it is not going to change
the fact that I feel that the State recklessly put our community into a position of risk
and that is not again, a statement about whatever Falck can or cannot do because I
do not have any experience with you. But I have experience with AMR who has
repeatedly been there for us and I am going to also say very different than from what
Mr. Sykos said when he said, "I do not care who is on the ambulance." Oh, yes, I do
and in fact, the paramedic with the creds...he came to my house. He found the
problem. If he had not been diligent, I would have never known what was wrong with
COUNCIL MEETING 69 OCTOBER 4, 2023
me and it is a pattern with the person, I cared about this person, I had not been in an
ambulance yet that did not have someone in there that I felt personally safe with. So,
I just want to honor this is a small town, this is not a big city, and these are not
strangers. These are our family and how you feel cared about, you feel safe when the
person is there and you are not indifferent to you and they know your name and they
helped your kid learn soccer. All those kinds of things, every bit of that is one of the
things that is the benefit of what we are and so without any slam to any other
applicant that could be there, I want to send a strong message to the State that is not
how you do the procurement process. This is as close to the jugular literally and
figuratively as you could get for the wellbeing of our people and I am not good with
the government basically telling us that we have to wait until the end of a legal
process to even have an opinion or have any information. I feel strongly about it. I
am willing to make an amendment or something like that, but really, I am on the
same page as Councilmember Kagawa. It is a strong statement. I want to stand with
Maui, I want to stand with the people of Lahaina, I want to honor Tony Simpson who
had his funeral this Saturday who sacrificed his life on Maui. They did the right
things, they did a good job, they have our back and I am having theirs.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: A lot has been said and you have the AMR
team here and you have Falck here, but it is the State...it was a big glitch to me is
what I am hearing. It was a big mishap or whatever you want to call it from the State
level. That is what we should be...that is what this is about. Holding the State
accountable before they even went to this level. They should have stayed at this level,
let us figure it out first and then...because the AMR team folks have been here, it is
not just the work they do, there are families, all this emotional side here. Then you
have Falck here who is just here, because he went through the process like anybody
else would, but the State did not give us enough ample time to discuss...to allow AMR
to discuss it, bring it to the table. I think this would take that to the next level. I
know there is a lot of ups and downs in here, but for me, with that level, holding the
State accountable.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Anybody else before...
Councilmember DeCosta: I like the boldness of Councilmember Kagawa
and Councilmember Cowden for taking on this. When you first hear about this
Resolution, I look at it, and no doubt support AMR. They have been in our family for
forty (40) something years. I look at Falck and I did not really know, excuse me for
my unintelligence not to notice, AMR is a mainland company, same like Falck. Not
like Hawaiian Airlines versus Southwest. When Southwest came in and gave a price
competitiveness. So, I am hoping that if AMR is going to retain their contract because
the State messed up and that is great, but if Falck is awarded this contract, then I
am hoping they use their common sense and hire all the people back and local
management because Councilmember Carvalho and I did a resolution on how we
believe local community-based people should be the management authority within
the company. I am a little bit worried about the two (2) WHEREAS'. I am thinking
that we are not in a big rush to do this and I would like our County Attorney to look
at the contract to see if we can get us the appropriate information because I want to
COUNCIL MEETING 70 OCTOBER 4, 2023
put my vote to sign something right now that could have information that is not
concrete, I am a little worried.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The County Attorney found I and he showed
me and so it will require an amendment to be factual. So let us take our lunch break
and Councilmember Cowden, you work on your amendment and we will come back
and get it done today.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We will go into our lunch break. We will
recess for one (1) hour.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:45 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 1:45 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We were on the Resolution for AMR services
with Councilmember Kagawa and Councilmember Cowden. You have an
amendment.
Councilmember Cowden moved to amend Resolution No. 2023-60, as
circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 2, seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Cowden: Are you looking at the Resolution? I took out
one (1), two (2), three (3), four (4), five (5) lines. I will read the lines that I took out
and I replaced it with four (4) WHEREAS'. Being removed is: "WHEREAS, the
Department of Health advised prospective bidders that a minimum level of advanced-
life-support coverage was not required; and
WHEREAS, without a minimum level of coverage, ambulance units may not
be staffed by paramedics or provide advanced-life-support services; and
WHEREAS, on August 29, 2023, Falck Northwest Corporation was awarded
the contract for emergency-medical services in the County of Kaua`i from
December 28, 2023 to June 30, 2027; and
WHEREAS, according to press accounts, Falck Northwest Corporation has a
recent history of substantial fines by California municipalities for failing to meet
response times; and
WHEREAS, the Department of Health has not publicly released the contract
with Falck Northwest Corporation, and it is unclear how ambulances in the County
of Kaua`i will be staffed; now, therefore,"
I have that taken that out and replaced it with:
"WHEREAS, the Department of Health Request for Proposal (RFP) states, "All
ground ambulance units at all times must be equipped and staffed to operate at the
COUNCIL MEETING 71 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Advanced Life Support "ALS" or Basic Life Support "BLS" level for all 9-1-1
emergency calls"; and
WHEREAS, the citizens of the County of Kaua`i deserve advanced-life support
services in all ambulances; and
WHEREAS, on August 29, 2023, Falck Northwest Corporation was awarded
the contract for emergency-medical services in the County of Kaua`i from
December 28, 2023 to June 30, 2027; and
WHEREAS, the Department of Health has not responded to requests for more
information, and it is unclear how ambulances in the County of Kaua`i will be staffed;
now, therefore,"
Then it goes on...here is the rough line for some, a good line for others:
"BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI,
STATE OF HAWAII, that it urges the State Department of Health to continue to
contract with American Medical Response to provide emergency-medical services in
the County of Kaua`i; and"
So the effect of this changes, we are not singling out Falck as being bad because
where our concern most deeply lies is with the process with the Department of Health.
When I read this where I am with gratitude to our County Attorney who pulled up
the document, it says: "All ground ambulance units at all times must be
equipped and staffed to operate at the advanced-life-support ALS or basic-life-
support for all 9-1-1 calls. Now, I was not able to see the existing contract...I do not
like the "or," I will be honest, but I do not like the "or,"because the "or" is what creates
a lot of lack of confidence, because "or" is unacceptable, and it might be, and I do not
know, I am looking at AMR, it might be that is your existing contract, but that you
folks hold a level of care but it does not matter what it says, you are going to have an
offer the best that is available. I do not know if that is very nerve-wrecking to with a
new company who might be able to be given the opportunity to have the "or." I am
looking right at Mr. Bailey because you are the number one here, the regional person.
I am sure hoping that if this works out where you folks continue that you do keep
giving us ALS even if they have given an "or" because you have done that. We are
basing our judgment on the standard of care that you have given, which has never
been...
Mr. Bailey: It has never been "or" before.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, do not say that? Alright.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Cowden, we got the
amendment. We are just on the amendment now and I think we should have a chance
for members to ask questions on the amendments if they have any.
COUNCIL MEETING 72 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: Sure.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Members, are there any questions on the
amendment? Okay. If you do not have any questions, I am going to suspend the rules
and see if anyone wants to provide testimony on this amendment. Come on up
Mr. Sykos.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I just want to
reiterate that this is a problem that was created by the State and the County is not
going to rectify this problem with a resolution. The Resolution, as it is currently
written, creates a substantial advantage for AMR, which is a violation of the State's
system for letting contracts. I do not think the County should be sticking itself in the
position of choosing one contractor over the other. I am considerably older than
Councilmember Cowden. I appreciate the fact that if we change service providers
who will change service, and that the quality of the service that I assume will arrive
today, we will receive in the future from a different vendor which is the whole point
of the procurement process. If the procurement process is flawed, that should be
addressed, but choosing a specific vendor, I do not think is the job of the County
Council—your job is to protect us, not to protect a vendor. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Anyone else wishing to testify on the
amendment? Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. Although I
appreciate the sentiment that most of us know those that work for AMR, at least
some of them, that is not the issue. Again, like Mr. Sykos said, the issue is the
procurement and the issue is with the State. I will say something...I do not feel the
County Council should be playing favorites or giving more credit to one vendor than
another, and there is something else that was talked about earlier...resolutions and
the question of factuality. When I go out into the community and I speak
authoritatively about some subject, I want to make sure that I am factual. It is
something not only from a prospective biblically, but it is something to do with just
being a credible person. When the County Council crafts a resolution, it has to be as
accurate as possible, because you are speaking as one voice and I will tell you
something...you have a big pulpit, you folks have a big one...a lot bigger than the
individual, and so people are listening. I urge you and I appreciate what
Councilmember Cowden has corrected—I do not see anything that I am objecting to
in the Resolution except the last part of it where you prefer one vendor over another.
Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Moving forward, Mr. Goodman.
Mr. Goodman: I do not like "or" either. When you have an
"or," somebody has to make a decision. How long does that decision last? Who makes
it, who decides whether it is BLS or ALS? What stations get BLS? What stations
get...does it depend on your economic situation, if you are in trouble as a company?
You might choose because there is an "or." You may choose a lower costing option. I
COUNCIL MEETING 73 OCTOBER 4, 2023
do not care for the "or" either to be quite honest. I cannot argue with some of the
other people who have testified, I think their arguments are real. I argue only for the
standpoint of the patient population. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Anyone else wanting to testify on
the amendment? Nope, okay. Calling back to order. Members... Second time, sorry
Mr. Sykos.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I would like to
address that word "or." In a different season in my life I was part of an ad hoc
committee in liana, Maui, to transform our State-operated medical center into a
private non-profit, and of the concerns we had was ambulance service at East Maui.
There is nowhere on Kaua`i that is isolated like East Maui is. We looked at all the
different options of what to do. The reality of why that "or" is never coming out of the
contract is that if the time were to come that they could not hire that licensed staff
and have enough of them on the payroll that they ended up with an ambulance that
they could not staff with one of those members, they would have an absolute liability.
Nobody is going to sign that contract in today's world. What the contract says is to
the best of their ability, they are required to provide that level of service, but we are
not going to sue your company into bankruptcy if you cannot. Congratulations, tip of
the hat to AMR, greatly appreciate the...because I know people in the company, their
company's goodwill towards all of us, but one would expect that same level of goodwill
from any company operating ambulances. Tip of the hat, I love AMR, if they win the
contract, wonderful, but a contract is a contract. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Anyone else for a second time?
Come forward Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. In regards to
what the doctor said, also. I do not like public relations (PR), but I understand some
of the legality. If you want to know it all, maybe you could ask the County Attorney.
It is legitimate that they put the "or" in there. I am concerned that someone in the
audience said that it was never in there before. Those kind of little things being
dropped cause doubt and it is true or it is not true, it was not in there before. If it
was not in there before and it is in there now, I would like to know why? I am
concerned also, but it does not change my feelings about the procurement process and
that again, the State seems to be the focus. It is not upon the vendor and I have
nothing personal in regards to either one and having talked to the new applicant, I
do not see any reason to doubt their credibility that they will provide the same level
of service. I do not know, I just do not have any reason to doubt, so I wish well to
whoever gets the contract. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Anyone else for a second time?
Any final discussion on the amendment?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 74 OCTOBER 4, 2023
The motion to amend Resolution No. 2023-60, as circulated, and as shown in
the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 2, was then
put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Council Chair Rapozo was excused).
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The amendment passes. We are back to the
full Resolution, as amended. Is there any discussion on the Resolution, as amended?
Is there any final discussion? Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Again, this is a tough situation and I am
looking out at the AMR folks...a few of them worked with my wife when she was at
Wilcox and Kaua`i Veterans Medical Hospital (KVMH) and I know Mr. Yoshita, I
personally worked with his wife at Waimea High School. It worries me a little bit
that we are still getting involved with a State procurement process that I want to
make sure that we are not ethically violating anything. We ethically cannot tell the
State who to give a contract to...that is a violation. I believe I would like to check on
the ethics with our County Attorney, Vice Chair Kuali`i.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: I think that is why we had the County
Attorney up earlier to do.
Councilmember DeCosta: I am asking about the ethics of that.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Ethics, okay.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We will call the County Attorney back up. Are
there any questions of the County Attorney? Starting with Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I am sorry for going over this again, but I
wanted to make sure that...I want to support this, but I want to keep our company
with our service care with the provider we have...I just want make sure we are going
to vote on something that ethically is as sound as factual. We did the factual part of
by doing the amendment, now I am asking ethically, in a State procurement process,
we have the right to tell the State how to run their bidding of the contracts?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Bracken: Matthew Bracken, County Attorney. No, you
do not. You have no say in how the State does their procurement. The Resolution
really is just a statement. It cannot have a legal effect. The State has to ignore it,
they have to go through the protest process, it will be ignored in that process. The
State has to follow the State procurement laws which would allow that sort of
influence, so the County really...and that is why it is a non-binding Resolution, we
have no say in this. This Resolution has no legal effect which is why it is non-binding.
With ethics it brings into...the moral Code of Ethics brings in the Fair Treatment
Clause, and so if this is something that the County had control over, I would say, yes,
I would have ethical concerns, you really should not be trying to influence
procurement, especially when State law governs procurement. In that situation, I
would say yes, it could have some ethical implication and this situation, it is
something we have no control over. It does kind of ring, when you look through the
Fair Treatment section of the Code of Ethics, it exists so people do not use their
COUNCIL MEETING 75 OCTOBER 4, 2023
position to try to unduly influence contracts specifically, so does it kind of ring of that?
Yes, but do I see an actual Code of Ethics violation, no I do not.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there anyone else? Thank you,
Mr. Bracken, County Attorney.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any final discussion? Other
councilmembers?
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2023-60 as amended to Resolution
No. 2023- 60, Draft 1 was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Motion carries. Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2023-61 — RESOLUTION URGING STATE OFFICIALS TO
PRIORITIZE FUNDING AND IMMEDIATE IMPLEMENTATION OF A RAPID
RESPONSE MANAGEMENT EFFORT TO SAFEGUARD KAUAI FROM THE
IMPACTS CAUSED BY THE COCONUT RHINOCEROS BEETLE
Councilmember Carvalho moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2023-61,
seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This Resolution is from
Councilmember Bulosan and Councilmember DeCosta. Do you want to share
anything on your Resolution?
Councilmember Bulosan: Sure. Thank you councilmembers for
allowing us to put this on the agenda today. It is pretty clear, Kaua`i is one of the
last places to experience Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle (CRB) and it is here. We have
some testimony that will come, in short, from some of the experts that are handling
this issue right now and it is affecting our county not only in private places, but on
actual county grounds. This Resolution is to encourage swift action because this is
one of the things we do not want to see expand on Kaua`i, and it is easy to paint the
picture of what this can effect, I just have to say, the Royal Coconut Coast, and you
just know the effects of what is going to happen, but that is not limited to just that
experience and it is not the experience in which that we want our community to face.
This is a swift action to be in support of our current actions that are being taken by
the Department of Agriculture, our County of Kaua`i Parks and Recreation
Department, our local non-profits, like Kaua`i Invasive Species Committee (KISS),
COUNCIL MEETING 76 OCTOBER 4, 2023
and Councilmember DeCosta and I want to stand firm in all our actions, including
all the organizations possible to eliminate, eradicate, treat, and support the
community in addressing this issue as fast as possible so this problem can no longer
be here on Kaua`i. I could read the BE IT RESOLVED, if that is at the pleasure of
the members, and if not, everyone can read it on the board and it is also in the agenda.
Councilmember DeCosta, is there anything else you would want to add?
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you, Vice Chair Kuali`i. Thank you
Councilmember Bulosan. Again, a Resolution is non-binding, but in this situation we
are really encouraging our State to put their money towards this invasive species.
We have put money into many different invasive species throughout the island and
this directly impacts coconut trees, but what is Hawaii without a coconut tree? You
look at O`ahu and there is a lot of the coconut trees standing there dead without leaves
on it, and we are hoping that right now that we get a jump on it with some kind of
financial stability without this project to remove this invasive...if we let it go any
further, we are going to be like O`ahu and we are just going to give up on it. This
beetle would and may transverse into another species that could be at the mercy of
being eaten by these coconut rhinoceros beetles. I am happy that Councilmember
Bulosan and myself have worked on this and hope to get your support.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions for the two (2)
introducers?
Councilmember Cowden: I have more of a comment than a question.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: With no further questions, while the rules are
still suspended, do we have anyone signed up to provide public testimony?
JADE FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: We have two (2)
registered speakers. The first registered speaker is Tiffany Keanini, followed by
Haylin Chock.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
TIFFANY KEANINI: Hi, good afternoon, I am Tiffany Keanini. I am
the Manager of Kauai Invasive Species Committee and I am in support of this
Resolution. Thank you for introducing it. Just a little background, CRB was first
detected on Kaua`i in May 2023, during our monthly monitoring checks at the airport.
Following that initial detection, there was an initial multi-agency rapid response
effort to go after the suspected breeding site. Crews from multiple partner agencies
did island-wide detection surveys to identify any additional introductions or possible
populations. Since then, we have had about eighty-two (82) traps around the island,
including twenty (20) that are maintained by our conservation partners and our
agricultural community that you heard earlier in the testimony. We now have
four (4) general locations on the island, so that adds one (1) additional location than
when this Resolution was drafted really highlighting the need that something needs
to be done quick. We still have a chance to do something and stop it and eliminate it
COUNCIL MEETING 77 OCTOBER 4, 2023
before it can spread island-wide and we should take that chance and encourage the
State and our partners to move forward. Next week University of Hawai`i (UH)
researchers and the teams from Hawai`i Department of Agriculture (HDOA) in
coordination with County parks, we began the treatment at Wailua Golf Course. It
was in a press release. This is really great, but it is crucial that all of the CRB
detections that we currently know about are treated with the same amount of effort
if we really want to stop this thing. We can easily spread CRB by moving infested
green waste, soil, compost, mulch, so now is really the time for the State, County, and
community to come together and start using best management practices to stop the
unintentional spread, because we do not want it to continually spread throughout it
across the island. We have the ability to stop it. I really appreciate the Council's
support in encouraging the State to include permanent language in the Hawaiian
Administrative Rules, Chapter 472, that can safeguard Kaua`i and prevent the
movement of CRB and additional hitchhiking pests. I think this Resolution is really
important to our community and to show the State that we think this needs to be
prioritized. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Are there any clarifying
questions?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. The four (4) locations, one (1) is the
airport, one (1) is at Wailua Golf Course. What are the other two (2)? If you cannot
disclose, it is okay.
Ms. Keanini: Kilauea area and then there is one (1)in...you
said the airport, the airport has been eliminated.
Councilmember Kagawa: Oh, that is done. So, what is the last...
Ms. Keanini: More west in the Lihu`e, Puhi area. Those
were the ones in our press releases and there was an additional one this morning that
has not been released.
Councilmember Kagawa: How big is...is it like a peanut?
Ms. Keanini: I believe, actually, we have a beetle to show.
These were just caught by the community trapping effort last night or the night before
last.
Councilmember Kagawa: Bigger than a bumble bee.
Ms. Keanini: Yes, they are huge when you look at them.
They are almost larger than the big cockroaches.
Councilmember Kagawa: If you have one (1) male per se, they need a
female to reproduce, right?
Ms. Keanini: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 78 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. We are worried that when they are being
transferred by mulch, green waste or compost that there are multiples, like male and
females.
Ms. Keanini: We are worried that their eggs and larvae are
in there. Their eggs are about the size of a Tic Tac and their larvae, which I do not
have, has multiple stages—three (3) different stages and it will get probably larger
than your thumb. It is harder to find that Tic Tac in compost and that is what we are
really worried about. From infested areas off-island and within the island.
Councilmember Kagawa: So good chance that the larvae will have male
and female.
Ms. Keanini: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Council Vice Chair Kuali`i.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Next person to testify.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Haylin Chock.
HAYLIN CHOCK: Aloha County Council. My name is
Haylin Chock. I am representing Kaua`i Native Species Committee, I am the
Outreach Specialist, as well as myself as an aloha aina. I am here to express my
strong support for this Resolution and invasive species have long been a burden to
Hawaii. I know we are no strangers to that. Within my relatively short lifetime I
have seen the impacts that a single invasive species has a rippling effect in the
community. Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle is an invasive species that cannot be pushed
to the back burner. Despite its name having a tie to a primary food source of coconut,
we do know that it can move on to banana, lauhala, it can also move onto to
agricultural and culturally significant plants, as well as our endemic species and lolu
that are endemic to Kaua`i and Ni`ihau. I strongly believe that with swift and
affirmative action by community leaders such as yourself, and authoritative
organizations, this pest can be contained and managed at this phase early infestation.
I graduated from UH West on Oahu on the Waianae Coast and I studied sustainable
community food systems. Many of my classmates are now food producers and farmers
on the West Side. They are also cultural practitioners in lauhala, and I recently got
in touch with them to see how CRB has impacted their lives on the Waianae Coast.
Within five (5) years, from me moving back to Kaua`i, from there being plentiful
amount of coconut along the coast and into the valleys, it has now impacted and
infested that entire coastline that Waianae is known for, and gone all way into the
valleys and into places like Ka'ala Ponds and has complete decimated some of those
trees to the point of no return. It worries me that this particular invasive species can
spread and impact us so quickly. This one pest can hinder agriculture industries,
especially producers who rely on sharing mulch and coconut mulch, which is
something that we practice here on Kaua`i. It threatens local farmers and it
threatens cultural arts of lauhala weaving and endemic native plants. I hope that as
community leaders you will have the foresight and drive to keep the pest under
control and support future efforts to stop the spread of CRB. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 79 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any clarifying questions?
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I know that some of the folks that eradicate
the coconut trees, they mulch it up and then they donate it to Waimea High School
and whatever agriculture programs, but is that safe for us to do that until we get the
CRB under control?
Ms. Chock: From my knowledge right now is that if it is
freshly mulched which means it goes through that process of being torn up, it is safe
if it is done on-site and it is not moved. Usually if mulch is sitting somewhere for a
period of time on a property and then moved to a new one, that is where it can be
sticky. Say, they mulched it on one property that happens to have CRB, and then
different community members come and pick up that mulch or they move that mulch
to a new place and it has been sitting there for a while. That is where it can be
transported, but if it is mulched on-site, I believe that is the safest way to do it.
Councilmember Kagawa: For now, not to transport the mulch,just keep
it on-site.
Ms. Chock: Yes. From my knowledge and Ms. Heanini
can follow up with that information and confirm it. It can either be heat treated or it
can be physically moved and treated, so it goes through a mulcher again. That will
essentially kill the CRB that could possibly be in there.
Councilmember Kagawa: Makes sense, thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
audience wishing to testify? Please come forward. State your name for the record.
DEXTER KISHITA, Hawai`i Department of Agriculture, Deputy to the
Chairperson: Good afternoon. Thank you again for hearing
this really important Resolution. Councilmembers who introduced it, thank you for
taking this. As you saw, it is a pretty crazy beetle. Actually before I get started, I
would really want to thank the Administration and the Mayor and his team who have
been absolutely amazing to work with giving us whatever access and support is
needed to do this operation that we are going to be doing next week at Wailua Golf
Course. They have been great. At the same time, the Governor released funding to
be put towards CRB operations, so we will be able to access funding to continue this
work at least in the short-term. The reality is one million dollars ($1,000,000) is not
a lot to combat an invasive species like this, but we will do all that we can with the
partnerships that we have to ensure that we do the best, but I want to say that Kaua`i,
you are on the cusp of moving from possible eradication to just maintaining and
controlling with community. We have to act now in a few ways. The department will
come in and do these operations when we find these incidences like Wailua Golf
Course, the...I think it is the back "9" that we are really going to be concentrating on
because that is where we see heavy activity. Beginning of June, zero (0) hits in traps.
Now, we are seeing thirty-one (31) hits in the trap. We see exponential, actually no,
COUNCIL MEETING 80 OCTOBER 4, 2023
a lot of rhythmic growth that is happening with this. If one (1) female can lay
ninety (90) eggs in its lifetime, that is why we are going to see this and why we need
to act absolutely quickly and now. The other piece is that we need the community to
be aware. We do know that we are starting to find...we thought that compost that
was getting shipped in from the continent was pretty safe...they do not have CRB,
but somewhere along the supply chain before it gets to final destination, there is
infestation that is possibly happening. We need folks to be very vigilant that if they
are going to buy a bag of compost, whether it is bagged on O`ahu or from the
continental U.S., or anywhere, if there is are any holes in it, possibly return it back
to the place they bought it from so they can store it in a container because very likely,
as you saw the size of the beetle, they will burrow in to potting soil, to mulch, to even
garden soil mixes if they need that place to lay eggs and then have their larvae hatch
and grow. The other pieces as mentioned—do not move compost. Do it on-site, but
we also know there also green waste facilities and the County will be going through
some training to learn the best management practices and then implement them at
the municipal green waste collection sites. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Are there any clarifying
questions?
Councilmember Cowden: I have a clarifying question when you are
talking about the palm. It is not just the coconut palm, right?
Mr. Kishita: Correct.
Councilmember Cowden: Can you name the plants?
Mr. Kishita: There is a bunch of palms that do get affected.
It seems as though the areca palm, not as much, but the danger, I guess in even
saying coconut trees, because you are right, there is a bunch of palms...there is an
interim rule that actually I am waiting for the email that our chairperson is going to
be signing specifically for CRB.
Councilmember Cowden: Could you say Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle
because people are listening and acronyms lose listeners. Coconut Rhinoceros
Beetles.
Mr. Kishita: Correct, yes, Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle. It is
now not only palm trees though.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, but so what else?
Mr. Kishita: They have been found in attacking things like
kalo, which is very different than a palm. They have gone to the loulu fern, not fern,
palms. So, a lot of the fan-leaf types. Be vigilant, any palm tree, if you see things
like large holes attacking especially the crown, go to CRBHawaii.org or
(808) 643-PEST and let someone know so we can be tracking and confirm that this is
Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle or some other damage.
COUNCIL MEETING 81 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: And just so I am clear, one big indicator
besides that burrow hole is the "V" shape on the frond.
Mr. Kishita: Correct, because as the frond is developing,
the beetle will burrow in and kind of eat through it and then you will see...I would
liken it to...I do not know if you have done those paper dolls...similar thing. It is
folded up, it eats through, so when it unfolds, it is this strange diamond "V" shape.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Councilmember Kagawa, you had a question?
Okay, and you too?
Councilmember Bulosan: Clarifying question. Thank you again for
flying all the way to Kaua`i. Is that one million dollars ($1,000,000) allowed by the
Governor specifically for treatment of Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle on Kaua`i?
Mr. Kishita: No, it is for state-wide. Correct, it is not a lot
when you split it, though currently O`ahu and Kaua`i have been the live detections.
Councilmember Bulosan: I had several more questions, they are really
not clarifying.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Kishita: I can follow-up in person or feel free, I will
give my contact number later. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you. Is there anyone else from the
audience wishing to testify? Come on forward.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. I am sure all of
you are aware, this is alarming. As the gentleman said, we are on the cusp, if we
pass this point and it spreads to the interior, we will no longer be able to eradicate it,
in my opinion and others. We will be able to just slow it down...we will only be able
to manage it, so we are only going to have this one (1) chance. I even want to speak
to the children of this community, "If you see this bug, go tell dad or mom, because
this bug is bad." Okay, thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Come on forward, Mr. Sykos.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. Decades ago I
raised hogs and poultry and then switched to tropical flowers and foliage on Maui
and at the time I ended up having a great relationship with the State Department of
Agriculture... several of their departments, and a real"tip of the hat" to them because
with extremely limited resources and even more so today because we have had severe
cutbacks in the last thirty (30) years. They are excellent at focusing and figuring out
what is the worst threats facing us and then focusing their effort on that. I am hugely
impressed with their response to this beetle. To the public, they are going to be
treating the Wailua Golf Course, so please do not get all alarmed and upset because
according to the news, they are going to using, in part, drones so that they can very
COUNCIL MEETING 82 OCTOBER 4, 2023
accurately apply pesticide to the tops of the trees to kill the bugs and protect the trees
and it is just the reality if you want to have palm trees, you are going to spray poison
into them to kill the bugs, and if we do not, then the bugs will win. Please keep your
protest to a minimum about the use of pesticide because it is reality. This is an
ongoing problem for us. Back in the 1980s, the State told us they could clearly
identify at least three (3) new species of insects that were negatively impacting
agriculture every single year. This is like twenty (20) times three (3), like sixty (60)
new species of insects or more basically since I got out of it and this is just the most
recent or one of the more recent ones, and so "tip of the hat" that we have the...to
them to catch this on time for us to be able get it under control. Thank you for your
support of the State effort and the language in the Resolution was most excellent.
Thank you very much.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Anyone else wishing to testify from the
audience? Deputy Director, if you could come back up. Councilmember Bulosan has
a clarifying question for you.
Councilmember Bulosan: Thank you again. You mentioned that the one
million dollars ($1,000,000) is not just for Kaua`i, it is Statewide. In that one million
dollars ($1,000,000) is it for treatment and education, or is it just treatment, or just
education, or both?
Mr. Kishita: Luckily it was set-up to be very broad in what
we can use it for.
Councilmember Bulosan: And with that one million
dollars ($1,000,000), is there also allocated personnel from Department of Agriculture
to provide services?
Mr. Kishita: In the one million dollars ($1,000,000), not
quite that broad. Personnel did not come with that allocation, but we do, between
our Plant Pest Control team and our Plant Quarantine Team, as well as, our partners
like KISC, the Invasive Species Committee here would be the way that we would do
education, as well as, I am sorry, CRB response team.
Councilmember Bulosan: With follow-up with that, you mentioned
there is a CRB response team. They will allocate some of that fund, I guess, is there
treatment plans—can you clarify the treatment plans of the Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture (HDOA)?
Mr. Kishita: Absolutely. So, why this Kaua`i operation, the
Wailua Golf Course operation is so important, it will be really informative on
treatment plans going forward partly because we need tighter data to figure out
where the breeding grounds are, because we need to break the lifecycle, right? We
cannot spray all the coconut trees on the island and there are other options, but I am
not quite comfortable going there for all coconut trees and they are called"systemics."
It is essentially an injectable into the tree that goes into the system, but you are not
able...you will need to de-flower so it does not fruit the tree for a few years. That is
not the route I want to go. We want to break the lifecycle and catch them at the
COUNCIL MEETING 83 OCTOBER 4, 2023
mulch plant material grub stage and deal with it there, but we need to find it first
and one of the difficulties is that Kaua`i has a lot of plant material on the ground.
Councilmember Bulosan: A couple more clarifying questions.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: They are clarified.
Councilmember Bulosan: You mentioned that it can also affect kalo.
Right now, I think there is like tinging on the back of my head considering the amount
of kalo that we have here. In that one million dollars ($1,000,000), is there
educational resources for kalo farmers how to detect and treat?
Mr. Kishita: That is not their primary food source so the
primary focus is going to be on our palm and coconut tree areas, but CRB Hawai`i
website and some of the material usually translates to anything. Many of the
pesticides that can be used are restricted use, so you need specialized licensing to be
able to use it. Again, thinning out the mulch pile or compost and things like that are
going to be the key measures that most people can do easily.
Councilmember Bulosan: Two (2) more clarifying questions. One (1)was
you mentioned that there is treatment for Wailua Golf Course and that was in your
press release, but did not mention treatment elsewhere because it is not planned or
it is not stated yet.
Mr. Kishita: It is not stated yet. Wailua is by far the place
we are hitting the most, so we need to focus there and bring that down. And yes, we
need to "chew gum and walk," so I get that...that we need to be able to focus there
and now start working in some of the other areas especially now that a few more
areas are possibly on our radar. So, we are going to be developing, and in fact, that
is part of the other calls I was taking in and out of the County Council meeting
today...to develop the plans now that we are seeing greater spread on the island.
Councilmember Bulosan: And last clarifying question. For the
community you mentioned that there are things they can do for treatment and you
said something about the mulch and also if they identify it.
Mr. Kishita: Right, so again, keeping mulch really thin
right now, so not thick piles. The larvae like it dark, warm, but not too warm, but
darkened and moist where they will be able to lay their eggs, hatch, and eat. So,
keeping it thin where the sun can keep it dry is actually helpful. I know that is
counter to why you are probably mulching, but compost, as well. The other thing you
can do is as you are bringing in product, make sure it is not infested. So again, if it
is a bagged product, making sure no holes, completely sealed before you apply. If it
is bulk product that you are picking up on-island, making sure that facility has good
management practices in ensuring the piles are either getting up to temperature or
that they are fumigating before distribution. If you see plants growing on a mulch
pile, that mulch pile is way too cool to be safe for CRB...Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle,
sorry, can definitely be living in there. ,
COUNCIL MEETING 84 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Bulosan: Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Thank you.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Members, is there any further and final
discussion before our vote. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to, first of all, thank Kaua`i Invasive
Species Council and UH and the team that came over. I want to acknowledge the
training that I received with you folks and the CRB Response Team at Na Aina Kai,
they had a number of agriculture workers there, I do not know, probably twenty (20)
some odd people from our community in Kilauea. I just want it out there that they
will come make house calls like that and get the neighborhood together and the people
I know at least up Waikoloa Road and different places are actively looking for it and
it is because of your effort. So, I thank you for that, I thank you for joining me on the
air, and we have been paying attention...you saw the Hawai`i Founders Union United
are talking about it. We appreciate the effort and I am sort of right now speaking for
the Northeast because it is there also, it is not just Wailua...it is definitely in Kilauea
and thank you and I guess I am going to make a comment that when we were doing
something on Coco Palms, we had a testifier who talked about when she worked there
many years ago, that it was there then too. Maybe it has come and gone and it has
come back. Thank you, we need to work to not have Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: I will just close. I want to mahalo our Deputy
Director that joined us today and especially thanks to the Kaua`i Invasive Species
Council for the presentation a few months ago to alarm us of this issue and work with
us to help mobilize our community. With the testimonies, I am even more alarmed
than before this Resolution. I am actually petrified at the thought that this could
affect not only palms and coconut trees, but kalo. That part I did not know and now
I am even heightened to a better response. It does not sound like one million
dollars ($1,000,000) to the entire Statewide effort is enough and I wish if the
Governor was watching, we could get allocated personnel specifically to address this
and mobilize HDOA as fast as possible. As we heard from our community, the
devastation that this potentially can happen to us hearing about what has happened
to Waianae, but then if you expand that to kalo and how that would affect the entire
island of Kaua`i. I do not want to be sitting here five (5) years from now...I am just
not going to entertain that thought, but I really, this is a call-out to the community
because we know here on Kaua`i, we mobilize as a community. So I strongly
encourage our entire community regardless if you are in agriculture or not, if you see
a mulch pile, you know the person who owns that and it is piled up too high, spread
that thing if that is okay with whoever owns that. Educate each
other...CRGHawaii.org. The greatest things about our community is that we
self-activate as a community, we address problems together, we work together, and I
COUNCIL MEETING 85 OCTOBER 4, 2023
would like to say that three (3) months from now I hope the vision that we eliminate
every Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle here on this island and maybe the next Resolution
is a celebration because I cannot imagine this...I do not want to imagine the worst
case scenario of this. And so please, if you are watching, share this information, make
sure everyone knows what is going on and let us activate as a community.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any final discussion? Can I get a roll
call vote?
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2023-61 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion carries. Next item, please.
BILLS FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2907) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 19, ARTICLE 3, SECTION 19-3.2, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS
AMENDED, RELATING TO PLAYING FEES AT THE WAILUA GOLF COURSE
Councilmember Cowden moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2907)
on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for November 1, 2023, and that it thereafter be referred to
the Parks and Recreation / Transportation Committee, seconded by
Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions for the Department
of Parks and Recreation or Transportation Agency? Are there any questions? The
rules are still suspended. Did you? You do not have to.
Councilmember Cowden: I wondered if Councilmember Kagawa or
someone wanted to just say what it is.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: You do not have a question, but you want to...
Councilmember Cowden: For the public, but I read the Bill. I am aware
of it.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We talked about this earlier.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, we talked about this earlier.
COUNCIL MEETING 86 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We took testimony.
Councilmember Cowden: Oh, that is correct. Never mind.
Councilmember Kagawa: If I can, Council Vice Chair Kuali`i, I have
some adjustments that are going to come up...I got some...right now to talk to the
golf course staff. They were kind of concerned that we jumped a little bit too high for
non-residents, so I will be looking at some amendments in committee. We can discuss
those amendments in Committee. Also amendments to some of the other rates that
are going up five dollars ($5), instead we are going to go up only three dollars ($3).
Again, I think it is a collaboration with the Administration. The money part involves
Golf 10. Basically Golf 10, the monthly is from sixty dollars ($60) to seventy
dollars ($70), forty dollars ($40) to fifty dollars ($50) for seniors, and twenty-six ($26)
to thirty-six ($36) for super seniors, but the daily rates, I am looking at a smaller
increase of fifteen dollars ($15) to eighteen dollars ($18) for the daily and twenty
dollars ($20) to twenty-three ($23) for the daily on the weekends for the residents,
but we will discuss it in Committee and if the committee decides that they want to
keep the higher increase, I think Kaua`i Golf Association (KGA) looked at it, they
know that they are always going to oppose going up there, especially like times like
this, but I think they overall approve of...they know that costs have gone up and there
are complaints about non-golfers saying the subsidy we have, so I think the Bill that
Councilmember DeCosta and I have is one about fairness in making the golfers pay
what we think is a fair price, because it is still a great deal to play that wonderful golf
course that we have...it is a prized gem and they continue to do a great job taking
care of it. The golfers cannot expect the fees to be the same ten (10) years later. We
have to build revenue up as much possible for them otherwise it is going become so
large that non-golfers are going to ask for more drastic measures on the course.
Thank you Council Vice Chair Kuali`i.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a couple questions for him.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay, go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: Councilmember Kagawa, what is KGA?
Councilmember Kagawa: KGA is Kaua`i Golf Association, which is
made up of longstanding members that oversea the Wailua Golf Course and puts
comment on any discussion made by Administration or County Council.
Councilmember Cowden: Will we anticipate that a member of Kaua`i
Golf Association will be at our Committee Meeting?
Councilmember Kagawa: I think, I do not know if they are wanting to
show up, but I think they have made their comments known to Patrick Porter,
Director and Wallace G. Rezentes, Jr., Deputy Director.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, my other question is, I was a former
business person. My guess is probably the regular golf courses are hoping that our
non-resident fee is up a little higher because we are probably...not only are we a good
COUNCIL MEETING 87 OCTOBER 4, 2023
golf course, but we are probably competitive with their viability. Is that accurate?
Are we going to hear from them?
Councilmember Kagawa: We have received testimony from Puakea and
Kiahuna has given me verbal support for...
Councilmember Cowden: They probably like us raising the price.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, because their rates are up in the
neighborhood of one hundred twenty dollars ($120) per day and ours is currently at
forty-eight dollars ($48).
Councilmember Cowden: That is an even drive?
Councilmember Kagawa: And we are talking about almost two-thirds
lower than what they currently have.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Okay, while the rules are still suspended, do
we have anyone signed up to testify? Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Come on forward. Mr. Sykos.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I would like to
thank the two (2) councilmembers for this excellent piece, here. Once again, I am
amazed at how many years I guess it has been...I have been before this microphone
and this is another conversation that has been ongoing since I first showed up here.
I think the pricing is really good, right? I do not have any marketing science or
anything that I have done recently, but just looking at the prices, in today's world a
twenty dollar ($20) bill is like change. I mean a twenty-dollar-bill is real money to
me because I am old. But the younger people today, twenty dollars ($20) is nothing.
And so these prices...sixty dollars ($60) or eighty dollars ($80) to play that golf course
is a screaming bargain. It may not have all of the bells and whistles and whatnot
that the golf course is designed by the gentleman that was here on the previous
council, but the view at Wailua Golf Course, there is no more pleasant place to play
golf in the world. This is extraordinary. These are really good prices, the "tip of the
hat" to the Department of Parks and Recreation for realizing they need to raise them,
and my only observation is, if it seems the thing to do, that you could raise them a
little bit more. Even me...where do I fall into, senior Kaua`i resident, fifteen
dollars ($15). How much does a movie cost, right? Not that I want the price to go up,
but even with these prices raised, this is an extraordinary bargain. If you keep it at
fifteen dollars ($15), thank you very much, I will appreciate it and if you raise it up
to twenty dollars ($20), I will gladly pay that as well. Thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Anyone else? You have clarifying question?
Anyone else wishing to testify on this item? Nope. Okay, I will call the meeting back
to order.
COUNCIL MEETING 88 OCTOBER 4, 2023
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Members, is there any final discussion?
Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: As Chair of the Department Parks and
Recreation, I just wanted to say that I wholly support this measure and I think this
has been long awaited and echo some of the efforts that the introducers have done
and I appreciate them doing the work and definitely appreciate our team at the golf
course and our Department of Parks and Recreation that has diligently put efforts to
take care of this world class facility and I look forward to make it a more feasible
financial situation in which we can provide better services in the future.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any further discussion? If not, could
I get a roll call vote.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2907) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
November 1, 2023, and that it thereafter be referred to the Parks and
Recreation / Transportation Committee, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion carries. Next item, please.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2908) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2023-891, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING
BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR JULY 1, 2023 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2024, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS
ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND (Additional Costs For Fiscal Year 2023
ACFR— $61,400.00)
Councilmember Carvalho moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2908)
on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for November 1, 2023, and that it thereafter be referred to the
Committee of the Whole, seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions at this time?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 89 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Councilmember Cowden: I have a process question. I appreciated some
written answers I received. In the Committee, who will a person we would ask
anything of?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: That would be our office.
Councilmember Cowden: So, in committee maybe you would be able to
answer a question or two? That is a yes. Alright, thank you.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: While the rules are still suspended, do we
have anyone signed up to provide testimony? Is there anyone in the audience wishing
to testify? First reading Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2908), sixty-one thousand four
hundred dollars ($61,400) additional costs for Fiscal Year 2023, a budget item.
Councilmember Cowden: Audited County Financial Report.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Yes. Okay, where were we? Being no further
discussion, can we get a roll call vote.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2908) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for .
November 1, 2023, and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the
Whole, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion carries. Next item please.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2909) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE
AUTHORIZING THE PROCUREMENT OF THE SERVICES OF A CONTRACT
AUDITOR AND APPROVING A CONTRACT FOR A CONTRACT AUDITOR FROM
APPROPRIATIONS OF A LATER FISCAL YEAR FOR MORE THAN ONE FISCAL
YEAR
Councilmember Carvalho moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2909)
on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for November 1, 2023, and that it thereafter be referred to the
Committee of the Whole, seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Are there any questions?
Councilmember Cowden: I will reserve my questions until committee.
COUNCIL MEETING 90 OCTOBER 4, 2023
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Committee, thank you. While the rules are
still suspended, do we have anyone signed up for testimony? Is there anyone in the
audience wishing to testify? Members is there any further discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2909) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
November 1, 2023, and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the
Whole, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The motion carries. Next item, please.
BILL FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2906, Draft 1 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2023-891, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING
BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE
FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2023 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2024, BY REVISING THE
AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND (Constituent Staff Support -
$400,000)
Councilmember Cowden moved to approve Bill No. 2906, Draft 1, on second
and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval,
seconded by Councilmember Bulosan.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: We brought this out of Committee, this is here
for second reading. We should have had all of our questions answered already, yes?
While the rules are still suspended, do we have anyone signed up for testimony? Do
we have anyone signed up for testimony? Do we have anyone in the audience wishing
to testify? Members is there any final discussion? There being no further discussion,
roll call vote.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to approve Bill No. 2906, Draft 1, on second and final reading, and
that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
COUNCIL MEETING 91 OCTOBER 4, 2023
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, Kagawa,
Kuali`i TOTAL — 5,
AGAINST ADOPTION: DeCosta TOTAL— 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Five (5) ayes, one (1) no, and one (1) excused.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Next item, please.
EXECUTIVE SESSION.
ES-1105 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council, to provide Council with a
briefing and request authority for a possible settlement proposal in a claim filed by,
CLERKIN, SINCLAIR & MAHFOUZ OBO USAA CASUALTY INSURANCE
COMPANY A/S/O ADAM K. HUSSEY AND KYLLIE HUSSEY and related matters.
This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges,
immunities and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this
agenda item.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-1105,
seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Is there any public testimony? Is there any
discussion? Come forward.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. As always, the
public is greatly interested when our tax money is about to go into settlement
hearings. Given that this case was filed in court and is public, could you have the
County Attorney inform the public what the generalities were when they filed suit
against the County, it states what the lawsuit is about. We realize you will not tell
us any details, but what can be addressed, to please do simply so the public is aware
of why our money is, once again, at risk. Thank you.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: The clerk just read the item so I think that is
as descriptive as we are going to be. The County Attorney will come back out after
the meeting and share what he can legally. Members, the vote is to go into Executive
Session. Seeing none, roll call vote.
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-1105 was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL— 0,
COUNCIL MEETING 92 OCTOBER 4, 2023
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Five (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 2:54 p.m., to convene in
Executive Session.
The meeting reconvened at 3:01 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: Calling the meeting back to order. We will
hear from County Attorney, Matthew Bracken on Executive Session.
Mr. Bracken: Matt Bracken, County Attorney. We entered
into an Executive Session to discuss a pending claim. Pursuant to State law, we need
to disclose anything that is not confidential. At this time, it must remain confidential.
Pending claims are disclosed on County Council's agenda quarterly, therefore, there
is nothing to be disclosed at this time.
Council Vice Chair Kuali`i: This concludes the business on our agenda.
There being no further business, and hearing no objections, this meeting is now
adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 3:06 p.m.Res submitted,
ectf
JADE OUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
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Attachment 1
(October 4, 2023)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Resolution No. 2023-60, RESOLUTION URGING THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH TO CONTINUE TO CONTRACT WITH AMERICAN MEDICAL
RESPONSE TO PROVIDE EMERGENCY-MEDICAL SERVICES IN THE COUNTY
OF KAUAI
Introduced by: FELICIA COWDEN, Councilmember
Amend Resolution No. 2023-60 in pertinent part to read as follows:
"WHEREAS, the Department of [Heath] Health has not publicly released the
contract with Falck Northwest Corporation, and it is unclear how ambulances in the
County of Kaua`i will be staffed; now, therefore,
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI,
STATE OF HAWAII, that it urges the State Department of Health to continue to
contract with American Medical Response to provide emergency-medical services in
the County of Kaua`i; and
[BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that a certified copy of this Resolution shall be
transmitted to Honorable Governor Josh Green, M.D., Honorable Lieutenant
Governor Sylvia Luke; Kenneth S. Fink, MD, MGA, MPH, Director of Health; Debbie
Kim Morikawa, Deputy Director for Health Resources, Department of Health; Errol
McGowan, President, Kaua`i Paramedics Association; Tito Villanueva, Kaua`i
Operations Manager, American Medical Response; and Honorable Mayor Derek S.K.
Kawakami.]
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that a certified copy of this Resolution shall be
transmitted to Honorable Governor Josh Green, M.D., Honorable Lieutenant
Governor Sylvia Luke, Kenneth S. Fink, MD, MGA, MPH, Director of Health, Debbie
Kim Morikawa, Deputy Director for Health Resources, Department of Health, Kaua`i
Paramedics Association, Tito Villanueva, Kaua`i Operations Manager, American
Medical Response, and Honorable Mayor Derek S.K. Kawakami."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed, new material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2023\Resolution No 2023-60 Urging DOH to contract with AMR JY_dmc.docx
4 Iletclimehl I
Attachment 2
(October 4, 2023)
FLOOR AMENDMENT#2
Resolution No. 2023-60, RESOLUTION URGING THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH TO CONTINUE TO CONTRACT WITH AMERICAN MEDICAL
RESPONSE TO PROVIDE EMERGENCY-MEDICAL SERVICES IN THE COUNTY
OF KAUAI
Introduced by: FELICIA COWDEN, Councilmember
Amend Resolution No. 2023-60 in pertinent part to read as follows:
"[WHEREAS, the Department of Health advised prospective bidders that a
minimum level of advanced-life-support coverage was not required; and
WHEREAS, without a minimum level of coverage, ambulance units may not
be staffed by paramedics or provide advanced-life-support services; and
WHEREAS, on August 29, 2023, Falck Northwest Corporation was awarded
the contract for emergency-medical services in the County of Kaua`i from
December 28, 2023 to June 30, 2027; and
WHEREAS, according to press accounts, Falck Northwest Corporation has a
recent history of substantial fines by California municipalities for failing to meet
response times; and
WHEREAS, the Department of Health has not publicly released the contract
with Falck Northwest Corporation, and it is unclear how ambulances in the County
of Kaua`i will be staffed; now, therefore,]
WHEREAS, the Department of Health Request for Proposal (RFP) states, "All
ground ambulance units at all times must be equipped and staffed to operate at the
Advanced Life Support "ALS" or Basic Life Support "BLS" level for all 9-1-1
emergency calls"; and
WHEREAS, the citizens of the County of Kaua`i deserve advanced-life support
services in all ambulances; and
WHEREAS, on August 29, 2023, Falck Northwest Corporation was awarded
the contract for emergency-medical services in the County of Kaua`i from
December 28, 2023 to June 30, 2027; and
WHEREAS, the Department of Health has not responded to requests for more
information, and it is unclear how ambulances in the County of Kauai will be staffed;
now, therefore,"
(Material to be deleted is bracketed, new material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2023\Floor Amendment#2 Resolution No 2023-60 Urging DOH to contract with
AMR FC-JY_lc.docx
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