HomeMy WebLinkAbout01/18/2024 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
JANUARY 18, 2024
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Thursday, January 18, 2024, at 8:40 a.m., after which the following
Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Addison Bulosan
Honorable Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr.
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Bill DeCosta
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Mel Rapozo
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Bulosan.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the agenda, as circulated, was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
December 6, 2023 Council Meeting
December 20, 2023 Council Meeting
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve the Minutes, as circulated, seconded
by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
COUNCIL MEETING 2 JANUARY 18, 2024
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. Good morning,
Council and happy new year. I will be speaking specifically and, since it is the
minutes, narrowly on testimony I gave on the December 20, 2023 Council Meeting. It
was item C 2023-263, and had to do with the Kaua`i Police Department (KPD) and
GrayKey. After I gave my testimony, there was a Garden Island newspaper article
the next day, Kaua`i County Council Approves Phone Hacking Tool For Police, and in
this article by Ms. Grunwald, there was a misquote. It states, "A complaint voiced by
Kaua`i resident Bruce Hart during testimony against County approval of the device
at the meeting." I would like to point out that I never stated I was against KPD
acquiring the device. As I stated, my focus was on the device and on the abuse at the
national level of law enforcement, as well as others. It is used in over thirty (30)
countries, and they are not all lawful nations. In a desire to bring this world issue to
the public's attention, Councilmember Cowden got it, Ms. Grunwald did not. The
device is of concern because of the history of misuse. Slowly, our liberties are being
eroded and jeopardized by a few bad actors. If we do not watch out, we will lose them.
Anytime testimony is given, there is the potential to be misunderstood. This is KPD.
I am as concerned for them about this misquote as I am for myself. Please accept my
apology and please extend it to the two (2) other officers. I have confidence in your
credibility. Thank you, Council.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Your comments are noted. Is
there anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Is there any further discussion?
Seeing none.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve the Minutes, as circulated, was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Let us do the Consent
Calendar.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2024-01 Communication (11/28/2023) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration and confirmation, Mayoral appointee Chad K. Pacheco to the
Liquor Control Commission—Term ending 12/31/2025.
C 2024-02 Communication (12/15/2023) from the County Engineer,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Authorizing The Mayor Or The
Director Of Finance Of The County Of Kaua`i To Enter Into An Intergovernmental
COUNCIL MEETING 3 JANUARY 18, 2024
Agreement With The State Of Hawai`i, Department Of Health For A Loan From The
State Water Pollution Control Revolving Fund For The Wailua WWTP Improvements
Phase II, Project No. C150055-08.
C 2024-03 Communication (12/18/2023) from the Hawai`i State Association of
Counties (HSAC) President, transmitting for Council approval, HSAC's slate of officers
for the HSAC Executive Committee for Calendar Year 2024, pursuant to Section 5 of
the Bylaws of the Hawai`i State Association of Counties, Inc.
C 2024-04 Communication (01/04/2024) from Charles A. Foster, Deputy
County Attorney, transmitting for Council information, the Quarterly Report on Settled
Claims filed against the County of Kaua`i from October 1, 2023 through
December 31, 2023.
C 2024-05 Communication (01/05/2024) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Second Quarter Statement of Equipment
Purchases for Fiscal Year 2023-2024, pursuant to Section 22 of Ordinance
No. B-2023-891, relating to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i for Fiscal
Year 2023-2024.
C 2024-06 Communication (01/05/2024) from Council Chair Rapozo,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Urging The Hawai`i State
Legislature To Expressly Authorize Counties To Amortize Nonconforming
Single-Family Transient Vacation Rentals (TVRs).
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-01, C 2024-02, C 2024-03,
C 2024-04, C 2024-05, and C 2024-06 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony on
the Consent Calendar? Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to receive C 2024-01, C 2024-02, C 2024-03, C 2024-04, C 2024-05,
and C 2024-06 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, if there is no objection, I would like
to take item C 2024-12 at this time.
There being no objections, C 2024-12 was taken out of order.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 JANUARY 18, 2024
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2024-12 Communication (01/10/2024) from Council Chair Rapozo,
requesting the presence of the Planning Director, to provide an update on the Ka Lei
Momi Kapa`a Housing Project.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-12 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, Mr. Hull and your guests.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KAAINA S. HULL, Planning Director: Thank you, Chair and Members
of the Council. Ka`aina Hull on behalf of the Planning Department. Thank you for
scheduling this agenda item on relatively short notice. Ultimately, what we have before
you folks is a proposal from the State housing team to essentially rebuild the Ka Lei
Momi Housing Project site, which is the Kapa'a state housing site located near the
roundabout in Kapa`a. Ultimately, that site has thirty-six (36) units that are in a state
of somewhat disuse. It is over sixty (60) years old. They are looking at proposing a
124-unit site with all but the manager's unit being made available for affordable
housing to those in the thirty percent (30%), fifty percent (50%), and sixty percent (60%)
area median income (AMI) bracket. Ultimately, this is coming before...they have
multiple areas they need to receive approvals. One of them is from the Planning
Department of the respective County for this project, and of course it would be Kaua`i,
and it is being done via the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) Chapter 201H process and
the governor's housing proclamation administrative rules. This project, in our review,
has our tentative support of it, but we are here before you folks to present on the project,
go into the details, go into any questions about things such as the relocation and siting
of the tenants, who are currently there, during the demolition or reconstruction phases,
or whatever questions the Council has. That is a brief primer. I will turn it over to Mo
and Sam.
Council Chair Rapozo: Before we start, I want to thank Ka`aina and
all of you. The governor's proclamation really streamlined this process and one of the
concerns from the communities was the public input, so I appreciate you giving us the
opportunity to have you all here to give the public an opportunity to speak on this great
project. I just want the public to understand that this proclamation really speeds it up
and may not satisfy some of the community's desires to have input, so we are having
that today. Thank you. I will just need you to state your names for our captioner and
for our record.
COUNCIL MEETING 5 JANUARY 18, 2024
MOHANNAD MOHANNA, President of Highridge Costa Development
Company: Aloha. Good morning. Mo Mohanna, President
of Highridge Costa.
SAM ARICO, Highridge Costa Development Company: Sam Arico,
Highridge Costa.
Mr. Mohanna: Aloha and good morning. Thank you for
offering us the opportunity to come before you today to present this affordable housing
community, and more importantly, to get additional public input and feedback. Our
objective at the end of the day is to serve the community. That is the objective, first and
foremost, before the objective of developing housing. As you will see from the
presentation today, we have met at a couple of meetings with the residents, we did some
community outreach, tried to provide and get comments, so on and so forth. We will
cover that today. The process before you today still required the proposed development
to go before the Planning Department of Hawai`i Housing Finance & Development
Corporation (HHFDC), that has both a planning arm and a development arm.
Technically, they are the State Planning Department. It was reviewed at that planning
level. Comment was requested to be circulated to various county and state agencies,
and such input was received, so the distinct difference between a standard 201H process
versus the emergency proclamation is, after such meeting when the State Board also
holds its own public hearing on the proposed development it goes to Council, as you
know, in this case, it is goes to the Planning Director. That is the distinct difference, but
again, I am glad for the opportunity. For the community currently known as Kapa'a
Homes, we will be working with a cultural consultant to see if there is a different name
for it to be named.
Today, we will talk about who our team is, the fact that the spot we are proposing
new housing, our first and most important focus is the existing residents and how their
needs and wants will be addressed, what is the Kapa'a Homes redevelopment, what is
the process, what is the schedule, and then open up to any questions that you may have.
At any time during the presentation, please feel free to stop me. It does not have to be
at the end.
Currently, the partners moving forward with this are the Hawai`i Public Housing
Authority (HPHA), which will continue to be the landowner, or lessor, and a tax credit
partnership will be formed for which the managing general partner master developer
will be Highridge Costa, along with HPHA and a local development partner, Form
Partners.
The HPHA has assembled quite a team that is working hand-in-hand with us in
developing the plans and doing outreach, so we are very grateful for their partnership.
They apologize for not attending today. The representative for HPHA, unfortunately,
tested positive for COVID-19, and is following State protocols.
COUNCIL MEETING 6 JANUARY 18, 2024
Highridge Costa is an affordable housing developer. Our mission is to develop
quality family and senior housing for generations to come, so it is focusing on changing
lives by providing housing. We have been doing so for the last thirty (30) years. That is
all we do. Actually, this March is our thirtieth anniversary. We primarily do affordable
rental housing across the nation.
Form Partners is a local development partner with extensive local experience,
primarily in the commercial and the market rate, but they really bring a good discipline
off the market rate product to the affordable, and it has been a great partnership with
mission statements and values aligned.
When people ask, "Wait a minute. What is this national developer doing here,"
this national developer has a huge focus in the State of Hawai`i even before we were
selected by the State to develop their portfolio. As you can see from the slide before you,
this is our current private development pipeline, consisting of nearly two thousand eight
hundred (2,800) units. All are one hundred percent (100%) affordable. All with one
exception, the Pohukaina Phase II in Kaka`ako, which will be sixty percent (60%)AMI.
The projects before you, some are completed, such as Hale Moena and Kokua Hale,
others are starting construction, like the Liloa Hale in Kihei, Maui. As you can see, we
work throughout the State of Hawai`i, so our commitment to the State of Hawai`i is very
focused to development of affordable housing.
In partnership with HPHA, in addition to the projects on the previous slide, these
are the development sites that we are currently working on. Since our selection just last
July, the ones that have moved very quickly because of the crisis needs, are Kapa'a on
Kauai, the one before you today...we are proud to be able to move that...Mayor Wright
Homes in Honolulu, which has been in the works for a while and we have stepped in
and moved it, and also, just like the one we have here today, received Board approval
from HHFDC and we are breaking ground on one of the first HPHA sites, called School
Street. Again, Highridge Costa is focused on delivering affordable housing here.
Focusing on Kapa'a Homes. The project is located at 4726 Malu Road in Kapa`a,
right across from the park and the roundabout. It is directly downhill, east, from Kapa'a
Middle School. The site currently has thirty-six (36) units on the property.As you know,
they are decades old, and they have reached their age of obsolescence. That specific
verbiage is not simply a matter of opinion, but because this is a public housing project
that was built by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) money,
and it is being removed from such. We will answer any questions regarding that. There
is an actual application that must be submitted to HUD at the Federal level for them
to review and concur that these buildings have reached obsolescence and authorize
demolition, hence the construction of the new units. Currently, the site is seventy-seven
percent (77%) occupied, not due to lack of demand, but due to the dilapidated condition
of some units that are simply unoccupiable, hence the issue of obsolescence. The site
land that we will visit with you has a variety of bedroom floor plan types, ranging from
COUNCIL MEETING 7 JANUARY 18, 2024
one-bedroom to four (4) bedrooms, so two (2) bedrooms and three (3) bedrooms. The
four-bedroom, as many of you know, is an uncommon floor plan in typical rental
communities, however, there currently exists ten (10) four-bedroom units on site, and
as you will see from the focus of resident-first, we wanted to make sure that
four-bedroom units are available for any families that wish to return, so that size is
available.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Mohanna: It is the current resident-first philosophy. We
mentioned the age. There are some existing flooding conditions of the site that have
been evaluated, and as you will see from the grading that we anticipate doing, plus the
retention pond area, it is to specifically address that, making sure that is something
that is dealt with.
Resident-first approach. We were asked what happened when we met with the
residents. I will describe the resident program, and I am very proud to say it is a
program that really protects their interest. Number 1, there will be a third-party
relocation consultant company. It will be a professional relocation consultant company,
that is hired by the developer, us, reviewed and approved by the State housing
authority, to meet with every family individually to protect their privacy, to identify
their needs, and make sure that they locate alternative suitable housing for them,
whether it is in another public housing project here on Kaua`i or any other site. Such
relocation process with the relocation consultant will start at least one (1) year in
advance of any start of construction activities and shall be completed prior to the start
of any construction activities. The current residents there pay a certain percentage. It
is about thirty percent (30%) of their income. When they move, if it is not in a similar
public housing community, they will have a tenant protection voucher. That tenant
protection voucher allows them to continue paying the same amount they are currently
paying at Kapa`a, and that voucher will cover the rest of the rent to minimize and
eliminate financial impact. Furthermore, relocation cost—the actual physical cost to
move their furniture and belongings to the next place—will also be a covered cost
through that relocation program. Upon the completion of the community, upon the
completion of the construction of the community, the original residents will have two (2)
options. Option 1, if they choose to return, they will return and they will be in a unit of
a floor plan that is suitable for their family size. That is the reason we are developing
the ten (10) four-bedroom units, so if there is a need for them, those unit floor plans are
available. They will bring that same voucher back with them and they will continue to
pay whatever rent they qualified for under that voucher, regardless of the rent that will
be put on the property after completion, again, protecting them. The cost to relocate
from the temporary residence back to the community is also covered. Just like the
relocation cost to move out, the relocation cost to move back in is covered. If they wish
to not move back in, which is the other option, they will also be able to keep that voucher
with them and go through the standard qualification process. The value of having a
COUNCIL MEETING 8 JANUARY 18, 2024
place where we have thirty-six (36) families who have this reduced rent via vouchers
remains with those families. It is not lost whether they return or not. That is a key
component of the relocation program put very simply, but it will, of course, require a lot
of work. We will be reaching out to the community, to community members like
yourselves, and the Housing Agency, to try to identify suitable and alternative housing,
to make sure that these families are housed in a timely manner.
Moving on to the community. The community is going to be a total of one hundred
twenty-four (124) flat, garden style walk-up units in thirteen (13) buildings that will
have the one-bedroom, two-bedroom, three-bedroom, and four-bedroom floor plans, as
we discussed. All of them will be affordable from thirty percent (30%) to sixty
percent (60%) AMI, so even if any of the residents do not return, all the rents will be
restricted for sixty percent (60%) AMI, which we will share with you on subsequent
slides. Those rents are fixed affordable for at least sixty (60) years. The reality is this is
owned by the HPHA, so even when it reverts, it will remain affordable. The rents are
published by the State. The rents are dictated to us, they are fixed, and those rents must
be complied with. In addition, there will be onsite parking, because we wanted to make
sure there is no overflow to the public street.We felt that was important, and we wanted
to make sure a one-bedroom unit will have at least one (1) parking space, and
two-bedroom, three-bedroom, and four-bedroom units will have at least two (2) parking
spaces, plus guest parking. We will go through the initial onsite amenities. There is a
clubhouse with a variety of amenities, a playground area, a bark park or a dog park, a
central laundry facility area, outdoor picnic areas, outdoor barbecue (BBQ) areas, and
community gardens and gathering areas.
With that, I will move to the site plan. One of the key dictating factors in working
with a site plan is the typical roadways within this development, that we would call
driveways, are actually public streets. They are not private, hence, when developing
this and reviewing the surveys and the title reports, it dictates that those streets remain
as they are. You cannot shift public streets without going through a significant process.
That limited how we can move around the site. Nevertheless, it worked very well. You
see the main entrance coming in. You will have two (2) ingresses and egresses to the
site. What we tried to do was create cluster areas so that it is not one (1) big building.
Each of these buildings is three-story, garden style walk-up. We will take a look at
elevation. We tried to create parking areas that are within close distance to each
building, so there is not a long distance of a walk to a particular unit, so people with
groceries or whatever they have, or if you are like me and you forget something in the
car three (3) times and need to go back and forth, you are able to do so within a
reasonable distance. That is addressed throughout the site. Additionally, we created a
common area here. This is the clubhouse, which has the manager's office, the assistant
manager's office, and central laundry facilities. This is an area that families can reserve
for free, but only for the residents, to have any family activities with a significant
outdoor area with the picnic tables outside, BBQ areas, children's playground area, and
because we care about our keiki, there is a fence around that area so the children can
COUNCIL MEETING 9 JANUARY 18, 2024
run around and play without concern of a driveway or a main street. In addition, up in
this area, where there is a drainage area, we have created a dog park. In our
communities, we have many residents who have small pets. We can get into the debate
of what defines a small pet and what is the weight of a small pet, but I do not have the
paygrade to really address that definition, but we do feel it is important to have an area
where the dogs can run and have fun. Interestingly enough, we will have benches and
seating, because it becomes a different gathering area for those with dogs and the
concrete there. Additionally, in this area we have a very large retention area because of
the water situation that it will retain onsite and the elevation of the buildings. We will
also address the area that is typically around this area, which has most of the flooding,
so the building elevation will be addressed there. Furthermore, you will notice there are
pockets of landscape, like you will see right here, right here, and in the back areas. This
allows for the specific buildings to gather and for the kids to play in these small areas.
They can have a gathering and they can also have their own community gardens in that
area.
This is more of a landscape. It will all be native landscaping. We are trying to
create natural shade in the area and the parking as it continues, but you can see more
of the landscaped areas that are available for the community to use throughout the site.
It highlights these areas. We discussed the community center, the BBQ area, the
seating, and the children's playground.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Mohanna: We are working to see if we can create a
carveout area for a bus stop. That has not been finalized, but there would be room to
carve something off the main road for a bus stop, if we are successful in doing that.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Mohanna: These are typical building floor plans. The one
thing to note is we have a variety of unit floor plans on the first, second, and third floors.
There are four-bedroom, three-bedroom, two-bedroom units with the building floor
plans. You have forty (40) units that are on grade for any families who wish to be on the
ground level, but more importantly, for anyone with disabilities. We accommodate them
by getting them in a ground floor unit. Of the majority of our portfolio that we have
developed, thirty thousand (30,000) units, three hundred ten (310) communities...the
large majority is this three-story or two-story garden style walk-up. It has been a very
successful development type for us. It has been very well welcomed because it is
clusters, it does not feel like a large building, you do not have that interior corridor, and
we have been able to manage any requests for handicap accessibility of any sort on the
ground floor unit, even when someone is on an upper floor unit and needs to be moved,
we work as the turn over comes in and work with that.We really have not had a problem
COUNCIL MEETING 10 JANUARY 18, 2024
in that area and these have been much better received than interior corridor buildings,
particularly for family products.
I will draw your attention to this one here, which is the community room. You
will see the manager's office, the common club area, and we have the large laundry room
here. The laundry room itself has separate access from the clubhouse, because the
clubhouse will be locked up after hours. It is professionally decorated and furnished,
but the residents are still able to access the laundry room for extended hours. Typical
things we look at in laundry rooms with our experience over the years is, for example,
putting a couple of industrial-sized washers for larger loads. In fact, they need them,
and if you do not have them those large loads will go into the smaller washer, and we
would just end up having broken appliances, so instead of putting up a sign, the better
way to do it is to accommodate the need by simply putting in industrial-sized appliances.
These are simple things and simple solutions that we have learned over the years.
This is a typical elevation. Off of it, you will see that there are external stairs.
Those stairs give you a landing for two (2) units per floor. We do not have catwalks. It
is not a motel-like feeling. You will also notice from this elevation that this is covered,
because we need to take into consideration weather elements. This is covered to protect
from the rain and other elements as they are going up the stairs, but it is a design that
even at the maximum height with the depression area that the site is in, it will not
affect sites from any other area or anyone's visibility. It really integrates very well into
the area.
Many ask what the incomes are. These are the restricted incomes. They will be
from as low for a one-bedroom, thirty percent (30%) AMI, someone making twenty-five
thousand dollars ($25,000) a year. Without any public subsidy, they will be paying
approximately thirty percent (30%) in rent. We will visit what that rent is, and it goes
all the way up for a family of four (4), perhaps in a four-bedroom unit or five (5), where
it can go up to seventy-two thousand dollars ($72,000). For the incomes, we try to
translate numbers into actual jobs, because a lot of people ask who these people are,
and people are surprised at a mechanic or a waiter. These are people within our
community. They are there and we interact with them every single day. Those are the
income ranges. This is workforce housing in its truest form without any ongoing public
subsidy or operating subsidy, therefore rendering a community that is distinctly
different from public housing, financially independent without any subsidy for the life
of a project is key. That is the distinguishing factor between why public housing across
the nation is being converted to low-income housing or tax credit housing.
These will be the rental ranges. Again, these are published ranges from a low of
six hundred seventy-nine dollars ($679) to a maximum four-bedroom, sixty
percent (60%) AMI at two thousand one hundred one dollars ($2,101). Keep in mind
these are gross rents, meaning there is a utility allowance schedule that is published by
the County for what a projected utility is for a one-, two-, three-, and four-bedroom.
COUNCIL MEETING 11 JANUARY 18, 2024
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Mohanna: That utility allowance must be deducted from
the gross rent and the resident pays the net rent, so that part of the money is covered
per the utility allowance schedule to cover utilities. The important thing to note is the
significant concentration of large bedroom units. The majority is between two (2) to
four (4) bedrooms. The four-bedroom has been replaced by a one-by-one basis, but there
is a significant number of three-bedroom and two-bedroom units addressing the need
for large bedrooms in the community. One nuance we like to point out is typical
two-bedroom rentals are two-bedroom and one-bathroom. Our policy at Highridge
Costa, with the many communities we have developed, is two-bedrooms typically house
a family of four (4) and we feel the need of a second bath to be important. Those are
small nuances. They are not in code, they are not a building requirement, and they are
not a program requirement, but we believe they are good living requirements as simple
as having the industrial washer and dryer in the community room. It is sensitive to the
needs of our residents.
Where are we in the development process? We have been through planning and
preliminary design. This is part of the process, including being here today and having
the opportunity for input from the Council as well as the community, which we are
thankful for. Once that is received, we will move into applying for our financing at the
state level and process building permits. Concurrently with that, we will work on
relocation and get to construction.
Roughly, the schedule is as follows. We have been working on securing the 201H
approvals and hope to have them by January 2024. That is the minimum threshold
requirement needed to apply for the Federal and State tax credit financing, with the
deadline being February 16, 2024. In order to have a complete and competitive
application, although not guaranteed to receive an allocation, but to be in a competitive
position, entitlements must be in place prior to the deadline. Typically, the awards of
which project receives it is somewhere around August and September. Between when
we apply, and we do everything we can...and I think the Pastor's words were the best
words. I was listening carefully this morning and said, "He described the life of a
developer." We just need to have faith, we have to do our best, and the rest is truly in
God's hands. It is an oversubscribed program. We work very hard to make sure we are
competitive by reducing the Rental Housing Revolving Fund (RHRF) ask, the bond ask,
and so on and so forth. We will work and prepare ourselves to get the working drawings
past the Planning Department ready, so if we are fortunate to receive an allocation
somewhere between August and September 2024, we hope to be very close with having
building plans ready to submit to the County's Building Division. From that point
forward, after an allocation, it is between the development team and the County and
the County's agencies as to how fast they want to process for a building permit. We have
said, "One year," to get that, so we are thinking towards the end of 2025 is when we will
have a building permit to allow us to move forward with demolition and construction.
COUNCIL MEETING 12 JANUARY 18, 2024
To be clear, once an award is received at the end of August that means all the financing
we need to build the project and maintain it permanently in an affordable state for the
next sixty (60) plus years is done. It now becomes a question of how soon we can get in
the ground, and more importantly, why is it important to ask how soon we can get in
the ground...as much as everyone gets excited about a start date...is when can we
deliver them, but we cannot deliver them. Those are fixed times. It takes so much time
to put a nail in and build something, so delivery is what we need to be focused on. Right
now, our earliest delivery is in 2027, but that all depends on starting construction. I say
that and I ask that, because cooperation, collaboration, and working closely with the
counties once we have the awards needed for financing are the key to answering the
question, "When are you going to start," and "When are you going to finish?"
With that, thank you for allowing me the time to present before you today. We
also thank the public that is listening in, and we hope to continue to receive input and
feedback and address it. We are available for any questions you may have. Mahalo and
thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo Thank you. Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It is a very thorough presentation and showing
it in pictures makes it very clear. I only have one question. After all the current
residents have had a chance to return, how will you determine who comes next? Do you
currently have some kind of waiting list either with the State or the County that will be
followed?
Mr. Mohanna: Typically, what we do, because there are
qualifications...you need to qualify income-wise, we do what is called an interest list.
We create a website, we create a phone number, people call in, and we put their name
on the list. Lately, due to the overwhelming demand that we have had when opening
these communities, we ended up holding a lottery. We do a public meeting, they put all
the names in an Excel sheet, they press something called the randomizer, and it literally
puts them in a certain order and gives each person or family on the interest list a
number, for example, the first twenty-five (25). Then the property management
company schedules an appointment with them, asks them for what documentation they
need to do, and starts the process. What we will do is we will work closely with the
County of Kaua`i Housing Agency to really finalize what the best process is for Kaua`i
County, taking input from Adam of what we think is best, but Councilmember, the
challenge is overwhelming. Demand exceeds it. Just to give you a typical example, we
opened a one hundred forty-three (143) affordable housing community in Kapolei in
O`ahu. We stopped taking names on the interest list at nine hundred ninety-nine (999).
We will work closely, but it will be somewhere along those lines. They will be given a
certain period of time to bring in the required documentation so that we can move along.
As each batch is approved and people move in, we work through the interest list.
COUNCIL MEETING 13 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: Being that the move-in is not until 2027, is the
interest list that you talk about something that you have not started yet, and it will
start at some point? How will you tell the public?
Mr. Mohanna: To the first question, we have not started yet.
Correct. We have not started. We typically start that when we start construction,
because at least we have a real projected delivery date. At this point, the real questions,
do we get an award, do we not get an award, and when are we going to get the building
permits are, as you know, big questions. One is an unknown competition. The other one
is time. How do we give notification of that? Again, we start by working with the
Housing Agency, they have lists, we coordinate with them, and we will take our lead
from them. If they want us to put an advertisement (ad) in the local paper...honestly,
we have typically never advertised. It is word of mouth from the locals. Everyone knows
about it. I am trying to remember the last time we put out a marketing campaign for
any affordable housing community. That interest list balloons fairly quickly, but it will
be in coordination with the County's Housing Agency, and we will take the lead from
them as to how they would like us to proceed whether it be, as I said, public
announcement, or so on and so forth. Also, we typically do a ground blessing that is
fairly well publicized and in the ground blessing, the local papers cover the ground
blessing, they talk about the community, they talk about it being affordable, and they
talk about the projected completion date. In that article, we typically say, "Here is the
website, here is the phone number," and that is all it takes. That one (1) article and that
one (1)time when we do the ground blessing is all it takes, and you will see that interest
list exceed expectations.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a follow-up. Perhaps this is a question
for Adam, but is it possible to utilize the people who are already on the County's list and
give them priority, since some of them have already been waiting for a while? Is there
a way to sort through that list for the eligible applicants? We can ask Adam later. We
will save that for Adam.
Mr. Mohanna: We will coordinate very closely with the
County's Housing Agency, especially if there is a list. Again, we give everyone the
opportunity, so we will work very closely with the Housing Agency.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is sufficient. Thank you. Councilmember
Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: When you are talking about people paying
their own rent, the thirty percent (30%) or the fifty percent (50%), does that mean people
who qualify for HUD cannot go in the building or can HUD qualified vouchers be
utilized in the building?
COUNCIL MEETING 14 JANUARY 18, 2024
Mr. Mohanna: Thank you. That is actually a very good
question. What Councilmember Cowden specifically asked for, "Do you accept vouchers?
Do you accept Section 8 vouchers," for example, as a fairly common name, and the
answer is yes. By fair housing, you must accept them. We have seen quite a number of
what we call mobile Section 8 vouchers, but we do not set up the financial structure of
the development counting on those vouchers. It is based on actual demand for people
within the demographic and within that income range who actually can pay without
that, but if someone shows up with a voucher, in addition to the residents who are
returning with the tenant protection voucher, the answer is yes. They are put on the
list, they go through the qualification process, and we have many of them in our
communities.
Councilmember Cowden: In our meeting, which I really appreciated, and
you folks exceeded my expectations on many of the questions that I have asked based
on complaints that I have received from people in housing, I did ask, so I am asking
again...I did not expect you to update your drawing...but about the placement of
external storage, because a big limitation I have found in happiness in being placed in
things is storage. We have a rural community. Where do you see there is room for
storage on the plan?You said, "Yes, maybe you could do that," right?
Mr. Mohanna: In many of the open areas between the building
that we have and the landscape areas against the buildings...behind buildings here,
sections here, sections here, we can create storages for surfboards and other outdoor
equipment. We will also have bike racks throughout as well. We do have areas to create
storage. We do have restrictions on what can be stored on balconies...the property
continues to be maintained, but we did discuss it with our team, internally, and there
are outside storage areas that we can create so people are not bringing their surfboards
with salt water and everything else into the unit, which only increases maintenance
costs. Not only is it something that is needed, but I think it is something that is very
helpful for long-term maintenance, so it is a very good question and suggestion. We will
be incorporating that into the design.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I had a question on the financial part of this
whole project. With community members who are selected to move in, for example, a
single mom with two (2) children, but has a lingering boyfriend who is not in the picture
when she first moved in, she gets the qualified AMI rent, then the boyfriend becomes
part of the picture. How do you folks address that if now the boyfriend's income is added,
and they can afford more than what they should be paying? Do you take that into
consideration and raise the rent a little so you folks can sufficiently run that building
and not penalize people for not wanting to do better in life?
COUNCIL MEETING 15 JANUARY 18, 2024
Mr. Mohanna: I do not know if I can address the boyfriend
situation for you, but I will address the last part of your comment, which is a very good
question, is something that a lot of people do not know, and do not understand about
the low-income housing tax credit program, which is encouraging people to do better in
life. If I may change the example to the following: You have a family who is at fifty
percent (50%) AMI, they move into a unit and their income increases. Within the
structure where we have thirties, fifties, and sixties, if a unit that is sixty (60) moves
out, in the books we relocate that unit, because it is not fixed. We relocate that family
under the sixty percent (60%) to remain in compliance. That way, they are encouraged
to do better, but there is much more to the story that you just asked. The tax credit
program allows families to work hard and exceed sixty percent (60%) of the AMI. They
would still qualify to live there, and they would still pay sixty percent (60%) AMI rent
even though their income may reach up to one hundred percent (100%) of AMI. When
the economy is doing good, when they are doing good, and their income increases, that
truly allows families to not be chasing the rent as they typically would chase in a market
rate apartment—the economy is going good, wages are going well, and rates are going
up. Their rent stays there and the low-income housing tax credit program allows that
and encourages that, so now there is a true savings between how much they are making
and for how much they are renting. We have had many situations where people have
stayed within that. Once it reaches a certain point, no, because we need to have other
families at a certain AMI, but we have had many families through local nonprofit
organizations where we will work on what is called financial wellness. We will help
them budget, build their credit, and build their savings, so they are able to finally save
the down payment to move into a home, because they are not chasing the rent. They
are no longer paying thirty percent (30%) of their income. They are paying even a lower
portion because their income went up, but their rent did not exceed. That is an unknown
part about the low-income housing tax credit program. If we really wanted to talk about
the path to save a down payment...and you hear many people say, "I think I can afford
the payment, but I just cannot save that down payment." This is truly that opportunity
working, and we do try to bring in nonprofit organizations that work on the financial to
help these families save when they do that. This is a program where if you work hard,
you will be rewarded, you will not be penalized, and there will be someone to work with
you to help you do financial planning to save. It could be with saving to buy a car that
you need or whatever items you need, but we have had families move out of our
communities and into buying a home because of the exact same condition that you are
describing. To the boyfriend situation, the residents in the unit were very strict on who
is in the unit because it is income qualified, so there is not one, "Okay, fine. I will add
them to the lease." The good thing about it is it is very controlled with who is in it. We
are very strict with who is in the unit. You cannot just have someone suddenly come to
live there, because in addition to doing credit checks and income checks, because that
is how you qualify to be in there, we also do background checks. We want to make sure
we know who is living there and only the people who are supposed to be living there are
in there. Is there a process by which they can come in and say, "I want to add to the
rent, look at the income, and run all the checks"? There is a process, but you must go
COUNCIL MEETING 16 JANUARY 18, 2024
through the process. This is unlike a typical market rate community where it is fine to
add another person, it is a three-bedroom and there is room. No. There are very strict
rules, and it is very strictly managed to make sure it is properly maintained. I am sorry
for the long answer, but you asked a good question.
Councilmember DeCosta: I appreciate it.
Council Chair Rapozo: I want to follow-up on that question, because I
was always under the impression, and I think the general public is under the
impression, that is not what is happening. In fact, I have heard from many residents
who cannot take promotions or will not take a higher paying job opportunity, because
they believe that they will be kicked out of subsidized housing or affordable housing.
What you just said, and I want to make sure this is clear, is that this tax credit program
encourages people to advance and if they do get a promotion that pushes them up to a
fifty percent (50%) or sixty percent (60%)...
Mr. Mohanna: Or eighty percent (80%) or one hundred
percent (100%).
Council Chair Rapozo: Whatever it is.
Mr. Mohanna: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: They will not lose their unit?
Mr. Mohanna: Correct, and to make a distinguishing
statement in what you just said, you used the word "affordable," and you followed by
using the word"subsidized." In the subsidized program, where you have a voucher, yes.
As your income increases, you may voucher out. In this case, there is no voucher. There
is no subsidy.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is this for the non-vouchered tenants?
Mr. Mohanna: Correct. To be clear, you cannot come in with
one hundred percent (100%)AMI and qualify. When you originally come in, you need to
be sixty percent (60%)AMI or below. If you then move up, you still remain and there is
no fear.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am not sure what message is being told to our
tenants today, because I hear from people that...
Mr. Mohanna: If you are non-vouchered, if you are simply
coming in, paying your own rent, and your income increases above sixty percent (60%),
you will still qualify to live in this community.
COUNCIL MEETING 17 JANUARY 18, 2024
Mr. Arico: Just to make sure, if they are doing public
housing, I think that is separate.
Mr. Mohanna: The subsidized voucher for public housing is
different. When it is not a subsidized voucher, they are fine.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I have two (2) follow-up questions, and it might
be that Adam could answer one (1) of them. Even when people are on vouchers, we have
a program that helps them get stability and it almost goes into an escrow account. What
is the name of the program?
Council Chair Rapozo: You need to come up, Adam.
Councilmember Cowden: Family...
Council Chair Rapozo: Hold on. We need to get Adam up to a
microphone.
Councilmember Cowden: If you could just explain family self-sufficiency
for a moment.
ADAM P. ROVERSI, Housing Director:Aloha. Adam Roversi, Housing Director
for the County of Kaua`i, for the record. What you are referring to is the Family
Self-Sufficiency Program (FSS), which is available to all willing housing choice voucher
program participants. As was mentioned before, if you have what is commonly called a
Section 8 voucher and your rent goes up, the amount that the government will provide
as a rental subsidy will go down, so on its face that provides a disincentive for people to
earn more money, because they will receive less rental assistance. The purpose of the
FSS program is that as you will earn more money, the government assistance will go
down, but to supplement for your loss, the difference in funds that you would have
received are placed in an escrow account for you. As long as you complete the FSS
program, which is customized for each individual client and involves client financial
education, helping with debt consolidation, and reaching certain goals that they helped
establish, as long as you complete the program and you graduate, then all of the money
that has been put aside for you in escrow is handed to you in a check that you can use
for a down payment on a house, sending your children to college, or whatever else. We
have had people work through that program and walk away with up to forty thousand
dollars ($40,000) in a lumpsum payment based on their ability to increase their income
and meet their financial goals while still receiving subsidy. It is to mitigate the
disincentives to earn.
COUNCIL MEETING 18 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: That has really been a substantially positive
program. For my next follow-up question, I am not sure if it is for Adam, Mo, or Sam.
(Councilmember Carvalho was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden: Just taking the example that Councilmember
DeCosta gave, if a parent and their children are in a house or a single person is in there,
life moves forward and they decide they want to get married, what is that process, so
that people are not kicked out because they get married? I know many people who are
in housing become depressed and say, "I could never get married, because I am going to
lose my housing." These are typically men, by the way. How do people have that life
growth where they get married and get more stability? How does someone handle that?
Mr. Mohanna: I would have to say that I have to check with
the Compliance Department. It is a very specific question. As we mentioned, there is
room for income growth for the original residents. I know that there is room, obviously,
when they have another child who is added in. I will have to check with the Compliance
Department for that specific example of if a spouse comes in who, with the combined
income of the current resident, far exceeds, for example, one hundred percent (100%) or
does not exceed sixty percent (60%). If it does not exceed sixty percent (60%), I do not
think it is an issue, but I do not know the details beyond that. It is a very specific
example, and I would be more than glad to get back to you with an answer. I do not
believe I have one at this time.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Roversi: May I add broadly?It is hard to say one specific
rule, because there are so many different sources of funding that go into these projects.
We have been talking about low-income housing tax credits, there are also Federal
home program grants and Housing Trust Fund (HTF) grants, and different sources of
funding have different rules attached, so you have to be careful of how the project was
paid for to understand the exact rules.
(Councilmember Carvalho was noted as present.)
Mr. Roversi: Broadly speaking, it is always a household's
responsibility to report to the management company of whatever project the unit is in.
That can be an adult child moving home from college, it can be getting married, and
again, broadly speaking without setting an absolute rule, incomes can fluctuate within
a certain acceptable range, but at some point when you go over the limit of the funding
regulations that are provided for that project, a household may need to moveout if
marriage or something else where the increase of the size of the household pushes their
income up.
COUNCIL MEETING 19 JANUARY 18, 2024
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as not present.)
Mr. Roversi: Again, broadly speaking, there is a transition
period that is provided for them. You are not told, "You have two (2) weeks to get out."
You are notified, you have a time period to find alternative locations, and the hope is
because your income has increased that much and you are out of the range of this
project, that you will be financially able to find an alternative location.
Councilmember Cowden: I am really pleased that you have the
four-bedroom units. Some families might have a disabled sibling or uncle, or a challenge
like that, so it is not two (2) parents and three (3) children. It is a family and a disabled
sibling. Does that qualify as a family collective to go into the four-bedroom unit?
Mr. Mohanna: Yes, it does.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? Go ahead,
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Of the one hundred twenty-four (124) units,
right from the get-go, will it be established how many units...what percentage will be
available for folks with HUD vouchers and how many units are going to be available for
folks without vouchers?
Mr. Mohanna: If one hundred twenty-four (124) people
holding vouchers are on the interest list, by fair housing, they can rent one hundred
twenty-four (124) units.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as present.)
Mr. Mohanna: The only thing that is predesignated is the
percentage of units at thirty percent (30%), fifty percent (50%), and sixty percent (60%)
AMI.Any person can move into any unit of the floor plan and by fair housing, they have
a right to move in.
Councilmember Kuali`i: The advantage you talked about, where they
can move in at sixty percent (60%), get promotions, and make more income up to one
hundred percent (100%), is that only an advantage for non-vouchered people?
Mr. Mohanna: As Adam...
Councilmember Kuali`i: Because of what Adam said.
COUNCIL MEETING 20 JANUARY 18, 2024
Mr. Mohanna: What Adam articulated was your funding
source.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay.
Mr. Mohanna: If their income goes up, they may lose their
housing voucher. For a family who is there...if I use the basic example that
Councilmember DeCosta mentioned, not a housing voucher, their income increases, it
is not an issue, which would also cover an additional person coming in with an increase
in income because of that range. I think Adam's answer as to you have to see what
funding program they are under dictates their role.
Mr. Arico: Just because you lose your voucher does not
mean you are going to lose your unit, right? It just depends.
Mr. Mohanna: It goes with what Adam explained. If your
income is increasing and you vouchered out, but you still qualify for a sixty
percent (60%) unit, you are still paying the sixty percent (60%), but you are not getting
the subsidy. I think I would go back to the original statement I made. When the
low-income housing tax credit projects are put together from a financial perspective, we
assume zero (0) residents with vouchers. We assume workforce families coming in who
are working and paying that percentage of the rent towards rent. It does not assume
that. The people who have the temporary vouchers come with their own set of rules
from whatever agency provided them with such vouchers and they need to comply with
that agency. We, independently, are not the ones who would be dictating if they lose the
voucher or not.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Just to confirm then. Based on your comment,
if someone came in with a voucher and they ultimately got to a point where they can no
longer have the voucher, they can still remain in the unit as a non-vouchered tenant
until they go above one hundred percent (100%) AMI, so the whole idea of what you are
saying about it encouraging people to do better, it is still there?
Mr. Mohanna: That is absolutely correct.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Is it so they can go from voucher to non-voucher
to homeowner, because they saved the down payment?
Mr. Mohanna: That is correct. The Federal government, for
branding and marketing purposes, decided to call this the low-income housing tax credit
program. This is truly the workforce housing tax credit program. When you really think
about a program where the residence is based on the financial ability to sustain itself
without any ongoing operating or rental subsidy, the only way it can do it is workforce
housing. If someone comes and is a cosigner for you to meet the rent, you are not
COUNCIL MEETING 21 JANUARY 18, 2024
qualified. You need to qualify on your own income and the only way you qualify on your
own income is you are workforce...you have some sort of job or income of your own, so a
guarantor cannot come and just sign. This workforce housing in its truest sense,
encouraging people to increase their income. If they come in under any other funding
program, they must comply with that program. That is beyond our control.
Councilmember Kuali`i: My final question is a different question. I do
not know if anyone has follow-up.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Kuali`i: My final question is on the tenant protection
voucher. Because you distinguished it, and then you were talking about HUD vouchers,
can you tell me what this is? Is this with any funding with HUD or is this from the
State? What kind of voucher is this? It is obviously worth covering people's rent when
they are not.
Mr. Mohanna: I am not a HUD expert.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Is it also HUD?
Mr. Mohanna: It is a form of HUD. It is a form of rental
subsidy. It acts and behaves similarly to a Section 8. You have applied with a certain
agency, that agency has deemed whether it is County, State, or whomever it is, has
deemed that you qualified to receive that voucher. They take your income, and based
on that, they say, "This is the rent you pay. We will cover the rest." It goes under
different things, but it behaves similarly.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay.
Mr. Mohanna: The payment, the person, the voucher holder's
name, is a percentage of the total income they make, and then the particular landowner
will cover the difference as to the rent that is needed. They behave similarly. The true ,
difference between them is sometimes the rent that the landlord actually gets...there is
a variation up here as to the rent that the landlord...but not the variation necessarily
for the voucher holder themselves.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Then your comment about, if they choose not to
return, they still keep the tenant protection voucher for the other housing that they
find, and it does not actually expire, because it is still a HUD voucher, and they will
have it indefinitely as long as they continue to qualify?
Mr. Mohanna: Correct.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: My question deals with the surrounding
property next to the development property. I noticed that you folks mentioned storage,
a dog park, and green areas to play. With the surrounding property...I am not sure if it
is County or private...what is the possibility of having a little area called the community
garden, which would not take away from the existing development of the parking, the
bus stop, and everything else you folks want to do, but before that fence on the backside
of the property going in, would there be a small possibility that landowner could give
up a small strip of land, whether it be a State piece that we could lease or a private piece
and they could have a community garden? I think that would empower the community
to be a little more self-sustaining with growing their vegetables for the 124-unit project.
Mr. Mohanna: It is definitely a good idea. Off the top of my
head, I do not know who the next-door property owner is. Is it the State?
Mr. Arico: Yes, a State agency owns it.
Mr. Mohanna: Do you know which State agency?
Mr. Arico: I do not know.
Mr. Mohanna: We would have to visit which State agency has
it and if it can be done. It is a great idea. We can definitely reach out.
Councilmember DeCosta: It is a very inexpensive idea, and it empowers
the community to have a place where they can grow some vegetables.
Mr. Mohanna: Yes.
Mr. Arico: Even if that lease does not work, it does not
prohibit us to carve a space out on the property to do that. That is part of our common
program.
Mr. Mohanna: We are working on creating areas, because
there are pockets here, here, here, and...it disappears into the bottom left corner for
some reason, but there are some areas within the community where we can create
smaller...it is probably not the size that you are hoping for, but we can reach out and
ask the question. It is a very good idea, it would be very nice, and I do not know what
the future plans are for whatever State agency owns it, but we will call and ask.
COUNCIL MEETING 23 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, thank
you.
Mr. Mohanna: Again, thank you. Thank you to the
community. We do want to thank the County staff. Honestly, the effort that has been
put forth shows the County's commitment to really move and put together affordable
housing. That spirit with the work that has been done and in the timeframe that it has
been done in is really a testament to the staffs and the County's commitment for
affordable housing. We thank you for that. We do want to say that while we appreciate
the opportunity today to provide input and to listen to feedback, we are always open to
continued feedback from the Council, the County, and the residents on how to better
improve this so it has a positive effect in changing lives. Mahalo and we are grateful for
your support.
Council Chair Rapozo: If you could just stick around. We will take
some public testimony, and if there are any questions, we may call you back. For the
public's knowledge, these gentlemen met with Councilmembers, two (2) at a time, prior,
and gave us the briefing as well, so this is not the first time we have seen this. Clerk,
are there any registered remote testifiers?
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: We have one (1) remote
testifier.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let us do the remote testimony, and then we
will open it up to the public here.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Christoper Delaunay.
CHRISTOPHER DELAUNAY (via remote technology): Yes, I am. Aloha,
Councilmembers. Chris Delaunay with Pacific Resource Partnership. We represent
about six thousand (6,000) men and women carpenters, as well as two hundred
forty (240) contractors from the State of Hawai`i. We are in strong support of this
project. It is a great opportunity to work with an experienced affordable housing
developer who has over thirty (30) years of experience building affordable housing
communities. This is an opportunity to provide more inventory. As you know, we are in
a housing crisis. The Hawai`i Planning Study of 2019 found that our State needs over
fifty thousand (50,000) workforce housing units between 2020 and 2025. The project
will provide one hundred twenty-four (124) affordable units, and this will help to
alleviate some of the pressure in our housing crisis. Moreover, I would like to say that
the project will create construction jobs for Hawai`i residents, paying them a living wage
with benefits. These types of jobs provide residents with an opportunity to afford
Hawai`i's high cost of living, keep residents off of welfare and other government-assisted
programs, will stimulate the local economy, and provide economic stability for workers
COUNCIL MEETING 24 JANUARY 18, 2024
and their families. We strongly support this project and thank you for this opportunity
to testify.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Are there any questions
for Christopher? If not, thank you. Do we have any other registered speakers? Is there
anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this matter? Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. First, it was a very
good presentation. The question I have is the same. It is not just this project, but any
like it. Are there any rules or enforcements in regards to noise? In a complex like this,
you have a lot of people coming and going at different hours. People have different
hours. How does the management address noise? Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I can answer that. Any of these projects come
with rules that are developed and enforced by the management company. Unless these
folks have a different way, but all the housing projects we have right now, such as
Kalepa Village, come with a set of rules that are enforced by the management company.
Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Is there any discussion?
Councilmember Kagawa.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I am in total support. I think
Highridge Costa has an excellent reputation of producing and having success in
delivering. We have an affordable housing crisis. You even see the governor struggling
with getting a plan and team moving this late into his Administration. We have a
project right here that will take down old, dilapidated buildings with a significant
backlog of major repairs that are needed. It only makes total sense that we proceed with
this manner. We currently have thirty-six (36) units and will add eighty-eight (88)
affordable units to go up to one hundred twenty-four (124) units for our residents of
Kaua`i. Right here is how you deliver when you have an affordable housing crisis. You
take opportunities like this and turn them into success. We are using property that is
already owned. Our approval is needed because there are a lot of question marks on
their end about whether or not they can get the funding and the timing to meet
everything, so I really urge all the Councilmembers to support this. Let us get this
moving and let us continue to support as they move forward, because they check all the
boxes of what this County and its residents need. We even have questions about the
affordable housing next to Kintaro's. They asked, "Where are they going if they are
kicked out? Where will we go next?" This is the answer. This can answer some of those
questions if the State's purchase does not go through. I am in total support. Thank you,
folks. Thank you for coming to Kaua`i and we hope for a long, successful partnership
with you folks. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 25 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Well said, Councilmember Kagawa. I am
always looking at the next level lightbulb. When I was talking to you folks, that green
space around that project is quite large, and I believe...after doing my homework right
now through text messaging...I found out it might be State land. How great would it be
if the State would think that raising cattle on a small piece of grass or pasture might be
more important than putting more inventory in workforce housing? I think the
lightbulb is on now, Adam. You folks go ahead and look at that other piece to see if we
can expand. You put in a sewer treatment plant. I saw it on the project. I am not an
expert on sewer treatment plants, but is there a possibility that the plant would handle
more units, so in case we do develop, the infrastructure is right there? This is a great
thing right now. I am very impressed. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to echo what Councilmember Kagawa
said. You pointed out many of the really important points. I actually like what
Councilmember DeCosta said. Perhaps we could do more of it adjacent. I think that is
a really good idea. I want to express my gratitude to the governor, for his role in this,
the developers, and both the Housing Agency and the Planning Department from the
County and of the State. I want to add that in my individual meeting with the
developers that they were really caring in how they answered a number of the questions
that I had where I have heard various complaints from people who live in a number of
our different housing units. I could tell by the way the questions were answered that it
was not like they had never thought of it before, that they have experience in it, and
even as Mr. Hart said about sound, they spoke about interior wall insulation, including
exterior wall insulation, so those upper units are not high with all the sun heat and that
the noise in between would be minimized. I really appreciated that. I am very pleased
and very supportive of what we have here, so I thank you all, I hope that it works out,
and I am happy to do my best to try and help. My understanding of what we have to do
is find houses for all those people who are in the units right now. That is the key piece
to creating this success. I heard it, and thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: Again, I am totally supportive. In our meeting
with you folks and having gone over some of the overall, but of course, giving
opportunities for families, number 1. I like the part about help, support, advice, and
guidance...that ties everything in one of those slides...but the other thing is an addition
to that would be connecting the surrounding areas. We talked about that, because there
is a park right there, there is a school area, there is parking...you know, making it safe,
the safety part, connecting. That discussion happened as well, and I think that is very
important. There are a lot of cars going by there for the dump and whatnot as well, so
COUNCIL MEETING 26 JANUARY 18, 2024
we need to make sure it is safe, and if possible, connect it to the park, which is adjacent.
I appreciate that discussion. Overall, I think everything is in alignment. That housing
project has been there for a long time, but just seeing the development, the opportunity,
and the options that are on the table right now for our families is the big part, along
with working closely with the Housing Agency, so whatever we can do to continue to
support and provide whatever resources is where we have to go. Thank you very much
and I look forward to talking with you more.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: Thank you so much for making time to travel
all this way to make this presentation. Mahalo for putting this on our agenda, Chair,
and to our Planning Director for prompting this entire project. Everyone knows housing
is our major challenge and oftentimes it gets stuck in places where we think are not
good places to be stuck. In particular, major developers who come from outside the State
of Hawai`i oftentimes have a hard time developing here, especially on Kaua`i, because
they have no relationship with the community, so I just want to point out that this
organization made every effort from the beginning all the way up until this point and is
continuing to make sure that this community gets what they want. That is probably the
biggest thing that I am hoping future developers and private developers looking to work
with us here in the County of Kaua`i is that the first step is to establish a relationship
with the community and understand the needs of the community. This presentation
reflects what the community has been asking for and desperately needs for a long time
now. With the work of our Housing team, the County is the leader of housing
development, so to see a larger project come through with the hopes of delivering on our
housing goal is a lot of hope that a lot of our community is hoping for. At the same time,
we are in the worst-case scenario and a lot of the points that were brought up on the
timeline, anyone watching this, with a 2027 delivery time, for a lot of people it is still
too little, too late, so I hope that pressure of understanding that will continue to put
that pressure when that application is put in for this particular project with the State,
they understand how important this project is, and that it is accepted, and when it does
go through our Planning Department, I am overly confident that they are going to work
deliberately with these developers, too, to establish this. My wishful thinking and hope
is that this date of 2027 is even faster, but we also accept the reality that sometimes
you add a couple years after that, so I ask for patience from the community. Whenever
we get these projects, we always hold hope, but we need to also play with reality, so the
date of 2027 could be 2028 or even, dare I say, 2029, but we hope that never happens.
In closing, I really think in the future any developer and other developers who have
similar projects, please take a lesson from the efforts that they made here, which is to
address the community's concerns first, connect with the community first, build
collaborations first, and then work together so that we can solve the problems together.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i.
COUNCIL MEETING 27 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: Mahalo nui loa to everyone making this
happen and for the very thorough presentation. To me, it is an amazing project, and it
is replacing an outdated, rundown, dilapidated 1966 project. This is probably ten (10)
or twenty (20) years too late. We should have done this ten (10) or twenty (20) years
ago. It is a maximum use of the space, it is beautiful, is community-friendly, has a
community-supported design, we are going from thirty-eight (38) units to one hundred
twenty-four (124), which is more than tripling. I like that it has the professional
third-party being hired to specifically work one-on-one with each family to make sure
they have a relocation plan and then are able to come back after. It is easy to support. I
am sad that it will take until 2027,but that is just the reality. I hope that we can support
more projects like this in different parts of the island because it is drastically needed.
Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? I will just say the old
saying, "Every cloud has a silver lining." Fifty-eight (58) years old is not that old for a
house or a structure. My house was built in 1950 and it is livable. It is not a mansion,
but it is livable. Had the State properly maintained this property, those houses would
still be one hundred percent (100%) occupied and livable, but because of their inability
to properly manage these types of properties, the silver lining is we will get one hundred
twenty-four (124) beautiful units, instead of thirty-six (36)...not even thirty-six (36),
since only seventy-seven percent (77%) are inhabitable. That is the silver lining, so
thank you,, State, for not keeping up with your properties. Our Housing Agency, Adam
and all those before you...if you go to our County projects—Pa'anau Village, Kalepa
Village—all of these that have been there for a while, they are still in good, top shape,
and that is because of the partnerships the County has with the property managers who
actually take care of their buildings. If you go to Koloa, on the road, Pa'anau is on the
right and the State project is on the left. They are similar projects, but I am proud to
say that is a County project. I would not be proud to say that the State project is ours.
That is just the reality. I did want to touch on the 201H process, because Mo did talk
about it. In a normal world and in a normal scenario, the 201H, which is an expedited
process for construction of these types of projects, is determined or decided by the county
council. The county council says yes or no. The governor's proclamation took that away
from the counties and put it in the Planning Department, so I did want to thank Ka`aina
again, because Ka`aina basically said, "If I do not get the backing of the Council, then
we are not going forward." That is the right thing to do, Ka`aina, and you did not need
to do it. You could have just run this through the Planning Department and not even
deal with the Council, so I mahalo you for allowing us have a say, not that we can say
up or down, but the result of this process will be a resolution that will be drafted by
this Council and heard in the Council meeting in two (2) weeks to help the project
move along, and that is the intent of this Council. As far as the design...I have been
through many briefings like this from developers of all kinds—commercial,
residential—and I will say this. This is the easiest to understand and is clear for lay
people, and I really appreciate that. It makes my decision a whole lot easier. I think
you said, "Resident-first design." Often, when we are looking at developments,
COUNCIL MEETING 28 JANUARY 18, 2024
developers will maximize the parcel for density. They stuff as many units as they can
on there and you compromise the amenities, you compromise parking, which forces
people to park on the streets. This was designed with the local Kaua`i resident in
mind, and I need to recognize that because it is not about density. It is not about
stuffing that place with units. The industrial washer and dryer. Who in the world
does that? Do you know who does that? It is someone who cares about the local
resident who needs to wash their bedding, and you do not want to put them in a
regular Home Depot washer, because you will break that washer. It is just simple
things like that. The covered stairwells. It is not necessary, but it is in here. My
favorite amenity, which is not even an amenity, I think it is a necessity...your
two-bedroom units and above have two (2) bathrooms. How many of you have ever
lived as a family in a one-bathroom house? Right here. You get complete control of
your bowel system, because you need to manage that when you live in a house with
one (1)bathroom. The fact that you designed this for the two-bedroom units and above
is thinking about the resident, and I need to say thank you, because that does not
come off. It is always about maximizing profit and revenue. Thank you and I can
assure you that I will be supporting a resolution that supports the financing of this
deal, so we can move this along and get it approved so that you folks can get to work
and get those units built. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
The motion to receive C 2024-12 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-07 Communication (12/14/2023) from Council Chair Rapozo,
requesting the presence of the Managing Director, to provide a briefing regarding the
American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) and all related COVID-19 funds, including a
breakdown of funding received, an itemization of all expenditures, the balance
remaining, and plans to expend remaining funds.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-07 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
REIKO MATSUYAMA, Managing Director: Good morning, Councilmembers.
Reiko Matsuyama, Office of the Mayor. You have some handouts. Celia has another
handout that we will provide for you. What we will be talking about today totals just
under eighty million dollars ($80,000,000) that the County received in COVID-19
related funding. Honestly, most of it is through the Housing Agency, so that is why
Adam is here today. He will talk about his projects.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 JANUARY 18, 2024
(Council Chair Rapozo was noted as not present.)
Ms. Matsuyama: Of the eighty million dollars ($80,000,000) that
we have received, some for housing, some for transportation, and again, some that are
more flexible in use, about sixteen million dollars ($16,000,000) is unspent or
unencumbered so far. As a reminder, we have until the end of this calendar year, 2024,
to encumber moneys, and until the end of 2026 to spend money. With that, I will start
with the first handout that you folks have. It looks like this. It is a two-page document,
and it starts at ARP101 and it goes down the list. These moneys are basically the main
ARPA funding, and we got about twenty-one million six hundred thousand
dollars ($21,600,000)in a couple of tranches. There needed to be a nexus between public
health, emergency, or negative economic effects of COVID-19, but there was a flexible
component to it that was like a revenue loss component, whichr is about ten million
dollars ($10,000,000) of this. If we go down the list, you will see the project code that we
established, the responsible department, a brief description of the project, and the
status of it right now.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Ms. Matsuyama: The first column of the budget is the initial
budget that was established, then you will see spent and encumbered, so budget minus
spent minus encumbered equals the balance.
(Council Chair Rapozo was noted as present.)
Ms. Matsuyama: You will see that some of these projects still
have a balance left. I have noted in there which projects have a balance that is yet to be
spent or which projects have a balance that could technically be swept for other
purposes. Would you like me to go straight down the list?
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Before we start, for my information and
for the information of the public, what can these funds be used for?
Ms. Matsuyama: With the twenty-one million
dollars ($21,000,000) in the first two (2) pages, there needed to be a nexus to public
health emergency as it related to the pandemic or negative economic impacts that the
pandemic caused, but there was a flexible component that was like a revenue loss, so if
we lost revenue because of the pandemic, this could be a revenue replacement. That
part of the funds is more flexible. There were other tranches of ARPA moneys received.
Adam and his team in the Housing Agency actually got almost forty-four million
dollars ($44,000,000). It mostly went to emergency rental assistance, and that is the
colorful page attached to your handout. That money was really restricted to housing.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 JANUARY 18, 2024
They do not have a flexible component to it as it relates to using it for other things. It is
the same situation with transportation. Celia provided you folks with a handout with
the Transportation Agency's pandemic funding. They received just over fourteen million
dollars ($14,000,000). They have a remaining balance of a little over five million five
hundred thousand dollars ($5,500,000) related to the shop expansion.
Councilmember Kuali`i: When you are saying that, are you referring to
anything in particular?You said the colorful...
Ms. Matsuyama: It should be...yes, that one.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is very difficult to read, but that is okay. Let
us start with the twenty-one million dollars ($21,000,000). Let us go through each one,
because I do have questions on some of these, as it relates to what you just explained.
Let us start with the first one.
Ms. Matsuyama: The first one is a housing project. It was for
construction of Lima Ola. Most of it has been spent or encumbered, and there is a
balance of one hundred forty-eight thousand dollars ($148,000) and they do have a
change order that is pending, so they will utilize the rest of the one hundred forty-eight
thousand dollars ($148,000). The second one is KPD. Right now, this is for the Kaua`i
Police Activities League (KPAL). It is related to youth mental health recovery. KPD is
leasing a space in the Kaua`i Philippine Cultural Center (KPCC), and they are expecting
equipment to arrive so they can set up boxing. They will also repave the basketball court
that no one uses by Chiefess Kamakahelei Middle School. They will use that for
pickleball, basketball, and those kinds of things. This money is for the lease to KPCC
and some of the equipment they will use to start those programs over there.
Council Chair Rapozo: Hold on. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a question on that one. I noticed that
KPCC needed to get portable toilets (porta potties) for our youth program. Why can they
not use the bathrooms in there? It is such a nice building. Do you know?
Ms. Matsuyama: I know we initially provided fifty thousand
dollars ($50,000) for bathroom funding. I think it is just to keep it separate so they can
have separate functions. The kids can have their own, and if they have functions there,
then it can be separated. I am not entirely sure of the background, but I know they got
additional funding from that, so we no longer needed to provide the fifty thousand
dollars ($50,000).
Councilmember Cowden: Do they still need to use porta potties?
Ms. Matsuyama: No, I think it is being built. It is not built yet.
COUNCIL MEETING 31 JANUARY 18, 2024
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden: On the ARP101 that you say will be used, I
assume it is still going to be used to help the houseless, like the second Kealaula or
something like that.
Ms. Matsuyama: This one is strictly for Lima Ola. Moving on to
ARP103. This one is an Office of Economic Development (OED) project, Rise to Work.
Similar to what we used for Coronavirus Air, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES)
money, we also used some of it for ARPA. That has all been spent.
Council Chair Rapozo: What was the Rise to Work?
Ms. Matsuyama: It was basically getting people who were
unemployed because they were in the tourism industry or whatever the reasons were,
to work. Nonprofit organizations picked them up and this money funded their salaries.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Ms. Matsuyama: ARP104 was an agricultural (Ag) assistance
program through OED. They are going to do a contract with the University of
Hawai`i's (UH) GoFarm. The money is currently unencumbered, but the contract is
being finalized, so that money will be spent soon.
Council Chair Rapozo: When is that expected?
Ms. Matsuyama: Within the next couple of months.
Council Chair Rapozo: Help me to understand. The funds were here to
deal with the impacts of the pandemic, and that pandemic is now over. It seems a little
late. I am curious. These funds that have not been spent...because we found out at a
conference that we can use these funds for wastewater infrastructure, which obviously
is a huge priority on Kaua`i...perhaps this is a question for Matt, but does the Council
have any say with these funds and where it goes?
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as present.)
Ms. Matsuyama: The Council established the budget. We came
to the Council to receive and expend the funds. The Council were the ones who set the
budget for this.
Council Chair Rapozo: As I look at this one, for example. I am not sure
in today's world if it has an impact to COVID-19 or the pandemic, because we are kind
of going backwards, so I am wondering if this Council has the ability or authority to
COUNCIL MEETING 32 JANUARY 18, 2024
redirect these funds to where we think it should be going, such as wastewater and so
forth.
Ms. Matsuyama: Matt, you can correct me if I am wrong. To an
extent, I think whatever funds were connected to the ten-million-dollar revenue
replacement component or of that nexus were the ones that are flexible for use.
Everything else cannot be touched, because it needs to be a nexus to, like I said, the
economic impact, public health, and those kinds of things. With public health, you have
youth mental health recovery, there are projects from the Agency on Elderly
Affairs (AEA) that talk about feeding the kupuna, and those types of things. Those are
all the nexus to that.
Council Chair Rapozo: I will check with Matt on that later.
Ms. Matsuyama: Remember, too, that we have the CARES
money that came in right away. That had a very, very short timeline on when we could
spend it. That was twenty-eight million dollars ($28,000,000). That basically came in
and went straight out. This is the money for which they gave us a longer window.Again,
we have until the end of calendar year 2024 to encumber and the end of calendar year
2026 to spend.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Go ahead. Next is the County Job
Placement project.
Ms. Matsuyama: ARP105, County Job Placement. We have
expended all those moneys. The Kaua`i Emergency Management Agency (KEMA) ones
were used for tests. We are not going to spend that one hundred thousand
dollars ($100,000), so that is one of the pockets of money that we can either move to a
different line item or we have some flexibility with the remaining money there.ARP107
is the Houseless Support project. Adam's previous houseless coordinator did a lot of
outreach to nonprofit organizations, so most of that money was spent for outreach, a
grant to Family Life Center, and those kinds of things. The unencumbered money will
be spent in the near term to the houseless, Kealaula-type at Lima Ola. The next two (2)
are for Elderly Mental Health and Elderly Food Support projects. Those moneys were
all spent. ARP110 is again OED. This is really to push film, which was clearly lost
during the COVID-19 pandemic. That is the nexus there. Most of it has been spent.
There is a little portion that has not been spent. It will be encumbered to Kaua`i
Economic Development Board (KEDB) to continue on with location managers and site
placements for films.
Councilmember DeCosta: I have a question. I am always curious. I
believe Hawai`i sells itself. I know we need to somewhat promote the film industry, but
I believe that these people who want to come and film in Hawai`i...it is almost like the
tourism industry. I believe people come to Kauai because it is known for its beauty. We
COUNCIL MEETING 33 JANUARY 18, 2024
spend a lot of money promoting it, but I am wondering if this money could be better
spent somewhere else. I am not questioning the judgment of this. I am just looking at it
as being quite a bit of money to promote film. Was a film made last year? What is the
cost ratio? Let me ask you this, but you do not need to answer right now. You can send
me an email, or we can ask Nalani. How much money are we spending? How much
money are we making? How many films were made in that year? Is there a cost benefit
to having that kind of funding?
Ms. Matsuyama: I am not entirely sure. I cannot answer those
questions right now, but I do know it is very expensive. Yes, the location is beautiful,
costs are a prohibitive factor to getting films here.
Councilmember DeCosta: Is this cost to promote our island or is this cost
to help the film industry produce a film?
Ms. Matsuyama: This is the cost to promote.
Councilmember DeCosta: Like an advertisement?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: This is to promote the use of the island as a
location place, so my understanding is that the film industry and how it rolls in the
OED is that it is a complement to tourism. It is the opposite, right? It is filling in the
gaps.
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes, I would say that is correct. Let us get the
expert up here. I do not really know.
NALANI K. KA`AUWAI-BRUN, Director of Economic Development: Aloha.
Nalani Brun, Director at the Office of Economic Development. This is that we are
getting the word out about what the tax credits are, because they are constantly
changing, so that they know that Kaua`i is still available as a location. We have not had
a lot of big films coming. We have a definite issue with hotel rooms in that there are
none, and when they do come to get a bid, it is over their price range. Sandy Ka'auwai
has been chasing down commercials, which are much smaller, but we get a lot of good
feedback from of it being a good location. We just finished something with Michael B.
Jordan and Chase Bank. That just finished. The things we are getting are really small.
They are smaller things, they fit for us right now, because that is all we really have to
offer.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you for that explanation.
COUNCIL MEETING 34 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Kuali`i: Can I ask one?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Just to clarify, negative economic impacts...is
this above and beyond what we normally do for promoting the island for films? Is this
in response to the devastating effects of the whole industry being shut down? Now you
are trying to get it back, and thankfully we have had this influx of moneys to inject into
promoting it even more than we have done in the past, but maybe now that we are past
COVID-19, and this money is running out, then we are just going to go back to our
normal promotion. Is that correct?
Ms. Ka'auwai-Brun: That is somewhat correct. Because of the influx
of money and because the entire world changed to social media, we were actually
allowed to also adjust a little bit. Instead of doing our typical advertisements in
magazines and things like that, we were able to work with KEDB, who went out for a
request for proposal (RFP) and got a consultant. They are helping us to actually place
new types of ads that are actually hitting location managers guilds and places like that.
We are reaching people who we can no longer reach in the old way.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a follow-up to his question. When you
think about film and how it relates to the COVID-19 economic impact, film work,
especially commercials, those are gig workers, right?Gig workers really were not helped
with most of the ARPA funds. It was very difficult for them. Would you say many of
them are still recovering from the impact?That those who lost their houses and stability
had businesses that faulted hard.
Ms. Ka'auwai-Brun: Yes, absolutely.
Councilmember Cowden: Are they still in economic recovery from
COVID-19?
Ms. Ka'auwai-Brun: Many of them even moved away, and we are
still trying to entice them back here with enough work.
Ms. Matsuyama: The next one is also with OED and Nalani. I do
not know if you have additional questions on this one. This is for the Mobility Hub plan,
but the money has all been spent. ARP112 was with the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney for domestic violence prevention. Those moneys have also all been spent. On
the next page, ARP113 was just dollar-funded, so maybe this is an example, Chair, of
COUNCIL MEETING 35 JANUARY 18, 2024
what you are talking about. This is a project that if we maybe wanted to do something
in the future, we established the project.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, I think that is quite a priority right now
for many people. I am surprised that there is only one dollar ($1) in there. Is that an
account that we could maybe move some of these funds into?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes. ARP116 was used for driver's licensing,
because when all of the extensions and the gold star real identification (ID) thing was
coming to a forefront, we tried to open after hours and on weekends. We funded their
overtime with this money. ARP201 is a landfill cover. Most of it has been spent, but
there is one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000)that could be swept from that account.
ARP202 is the Pi`ikoi Youth Center. The intention is to make it like a childcare facility.
The nexus was youth function, mental health of youth, and those kinds of things.
Unfortunately, the bid needed to be canceled. We did some value engineering on it. It
was just recently canceled and will be posted soon for another thirty (30) days, but that
is a good chunk of money that we still intend to use.
Council Chair Rapozo: What is the plan for this place? I was not here,
so I am not sure if you briefed the Council. What is the plan for this place? In speaking
with Lieutenant Governor Sylvia Luke, I understand that she is planning a facility out
in the area where Safeway is. What is this? This is the most money in any line item.
This is where I have a hard time, Reiko. I see cesspool conversion, which is a critical
issue right now, with one dollar ($1), and then I see Pi`ikoi Youth Center with almost
seven million dollars ($7,000,000). Help me to understand what the need is and what
the County is intending to do with this facility.
Ms. Matsuyama: The intention right now is to make that a
childcare facility—a preschool, a daycare facility—not just for County employees, but
for those in the central area. It would complement the Lieutenant Governor's project on
that side and any other project that we have here. I will say, though, that the space is
obviously unused and underutilized. It is just to make it a nice shell building. It is to fix
that roof, which is a big priority, and make it so it can be a usable space. If the Council's
direction is to put housing, expand our offices because we are busting at the seems over
there, or whatever it is, the plan is to make it a usable space. Right now, the intention
is to make it...
Council Chair Rapozo: Let me say what my vision is, which is the
vision that we have gone several times on this Council over the years. When
Councilmember Carvalho was the Mayor, we did space studies. We spent hundreds of
thousands of dollars in space studies, because we did not have enough space for our
County departments and agencies. The Planning Department is cramped up. No one
has room. We did space studies. I do not know what the total amount spent was. I know
it was a significant amount of money, and remember sitting here with consultants who
COUNCIL MEETING 36 JANUARY 18, 2024
told us, "Yes, you have the mezzanine. You can put offices up there." We could take care
of all of our County's space needs right there. At the time, we were renting from Hale
Pumehana, we were renting here, spending all this money, and that was the plan. Is
the intent for the County to operate this center?
Ms. Matsuyama: No, we would get childcare providers.
Council Chair Rapozo: I hate to bring it up, but we did not learn from
the drug treatment center. We did what we did and then we could not operate. We
cannot operate. Why are we getting involved in that kind of thing? We have a need for
County services. We have a need for space for our own County staff. Seven million
dollars ($7,000,000) can do a lot in that area to ease the congestion in the Planning
Department and wherever else needed. I would like to revisit that.
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Maybe it is another discussion that we need to
have at another Council meeting, but I do not see the need and I do not believe that this
County should be getting involved in childcare. I do not. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to follow up on that, because at the time,
even I was saying we need to give more room for our people. If it really was about
childcare, this becomes competitive with whatever is right around here. If it was
childcare for our own workers, I would rather see us supplement from wherever they
are near wherever their homes are. What I am hearing is that you folks really want to
fix the roof. It is about starting to fix the roof.
Ms. Matsuyama: The roof takes up a big chunk of that seven
million dollars ($7,000,000).
Councilmember Cowden: If we fixed the building, if we made the shell
clean, and we fixed the roof, but we are doing it under the auspices of potentially
providing childcare, is that an honest answer?I know for my own self that I would want
it to be more County space. I do not think providing childcare is the right place for it
there. I said it from the beginning. Accurately, we have greater need from the
government for so many reasons because of the COVID-19 problem that we went
through, that we are helping our County for COVID-19 impacts, but it is not by
providing childcare. Can we do that? I do not want to be dishonest. We have the roof
fixed and the building fixed, but it is not the right reason.
Ms. Matsuyama: Like I said, getting the building fixed is one
thing. The use of it is another thing. This money will be to get that thing to be utilized
for something.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: Will we be pegged, will we be some way clawed
back or in fraudulent violation of the intention if we say we are going to do it for
childcare, but we end up putting all the many needs in the crowded County in that
needed space.
Ms. Matsuyama: I think that because this was pegged as the
revenue replacement that it is a flexible use of funds.
Councilmember Cowden: Can we find that out? I want to make sure that
if we do something else that we are operating accurately, legally, in integrity...I do not
know what word I want to use. I am trying to find a positive work.
Ms. Matsuyama: If I still had Nick Courson, he would be here,
and he would answer that right away. I miss him a little bit more today.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will definitely have another discussion on
this, because I think if that six million nine hundred thousand dollars ($6,900,000) was
in cesspool conversions, you would not hear a peep from me, because that is an issue
that our people will suffer with and are suffering with because they are trying to build
an extra room to house their child. When you need to build a septic tank, it adds another
forty thousand dollars ($40,000), fifty thousand dollars ($50,000), sixty thousand
dollars ($60,000), or whatever. I would much rather see us assist those families than
this. I do not even know how we would proceed with this. If the majority of the six
million nine hundred thousand dollars ($6,900,000)is for structure repairs, then I agree
with Councilmember Cowden that we should call it that. I do not know how you would
tie that to the pandemic, but we will have that discussion.
Ms. Matsuyama: I will put it out there, because it just needs to
be said, but in defense of the childcare facility, we still do have issues with recruitment
and retention, so if this is a way...maybe we cannot pay them more, but there is a perk
for them. You can drop them off, you know they are in a safe place, you can visit them
during lunch time or whatever it is, there is a nexus for employment on that surface.
Council Chair Rapozo: Like I said, in my opinion, we, as a County
should not be getting involved in that social service section. We tried and it is a difficult
thing to do.
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Carvalho: That space is set aside for additional office
space just to enhance and support our team. That is a big one. I know childcare is very
COUNCIL MEETING 38 JANUARY 18, 2024
much needed, but I know there are other areas we can support, but this is taking care
of our internal. That is it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Does anyone else have any questions on the
youth center? If not, the next is the Kilauea land purchase.
Ms. Matsuyama: ARP203, Kilauea land purchase. That was
used for the purchase of housing land out in Kilauea. All of the money is spent. Next,
ARP204, is another KPAL project. The first KPAL one was leasing temporary space
while we fix the existing space. Right now, they still want to get plans to fix a more
permanent space for KPAL.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is the intent to get a new facility so we do not
have to continue to pay that lease out to KPCC?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes, that is correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I want to ask about the lease we pay to KPCC.
When that building was constructed, was there not a negotiation between letting our
nonprofit organizations use that center versus them having to pay to use the center?
Ms. Matsuyama: I do not know that. I would need to go back and
check.
Councilmember DeCosta: Please let me know,because I would hate to see
that we did something good for one community entity and then that community entity
is charging revenue to other nonprofit organizations who do not have revenue to pay.
Here is the thing. If it is not being used, then they should be able to use it. If it is being
used, and they have to schedule and charge, then I agree with that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Does anyone else have any questions. If not,
next is the heavy equipment wash rack. That is two million dollars ($2,000,000). That
is another large expenditure.
Ms. Matsuyama: This is with the Department of Public Works.
They desperately need this wash rack. It needs a National Pollutant Discharge
Elimination System (NPDES) permit. It is really a Department of Health (DOH) issue
to dispose of the hazardous things that come off the refuse trucks.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is this an allowable use of the funds? I am
trying to find the connection to the pandemic, because what I do not want to see is the
COUNCIL MEETING 39 JANUARY 18, 2024
Federal government come back later and say, "Pay us back." I do not know how that
connection is made. Help me to understand that.
Ms. Matsuyama: This is another question for Nick Courson. I
wish he was here. Just like you, he struggled with this one regarding where the
connection is, but he was convinced, and I would have to go back and check why he was
convinced, but he was convinced that it was an allowable use.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I trust you folks. I am just trying to
figure it out. I am not a lawyer, but this is not a project that was created or caused by
the pandemic. This was an issue that has been there for a long time. Maybe we can ask
Nick and maybe he can convince us that it is. Okay, next.
Ms. Matsuyama: ARP206 is for County management. We put it
in there for audits in case there was a need. If there is not a need, it is moneys that
could be used elsewhere. The next three (3) are KEMA. They are all for COVID-19. It is
for a testing center, public outreach, response, and those kinds of things. All those
moneys have been spent. ARPO9N was a non-entitlement unit. These are sort of
separate funding, but they report them together, so we just put them all together. Those
were for kapuna meal delivery that was administered by AEA, and those moneys have
all been spent as well. The next one is a contingency, so again, anything that goes
overbudget can be funded with this account.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is that similar to ARP206?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes. ARP206 was really meant for audits, if we
had questions on compliance and those kinds of things. That is what it was for. If it was
not used, then it can be used on something else.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there intent to use that? Is there an intent
by the Administration to actually audit?
Ms. Matsuyama: No, not right now. APR1ON, which is the
second to the last one was administered by OED. It is agriculture job training for youth
and that money has all been encumbered or spent. The last one, which is ARP11N,
basically pays for the salaries of those people who are administering the grants and
doing the compliance and reporting for us, so it was Nick Courson.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you intend or expect to spend the remaining
five hundred sixty thousand dollars ($560,000)?
Ms. Matsuyama: It is kind of a lot, so we probably do not need
the entire thing.
COUNCIL MEETING 40 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: A quick question and then we will take a
caption break. Go ahead.
Councilmember Kuali`i: When you started the spreadsheet, you used
the figure of sixteen million dollars ($16,000,000), but here it is ten million
dollars ($10,000,000).Are you also including the five million dollars ($5,000,000), which
I guess we can talk about after the break?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember DeCosta: It is just a small question and you do not need
to answer me. You can email me your answer. I have to commend you. You are very
honest. When we ask you about spending this money, you said, "That is a little bit more
than normal. It might have some overage." On the overage part, when there is a small
project that comes in from a constituent, such as tree cutting or some kind of emergency,
could some of this extra money that floats around in our Administration's account be
used for a small project that could satisfy our constituent instead of departments having
to come back to the Council and asking for a money bill to cut a tree?
Ms. Matsuyama: Right now, it needs to fall within one of these
projects. That is the reason for the one-dollar funding of the cesspool project. We can
move money there or to another project, and spend it. I would say, no, because I cannot
see it falling within one of these project codes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think the Federal government is auditing
throughout the country. Every so often you will see that some small municipality got
hit because they used these funds for reasons that were not authorized or eligible, so
now they are having to pay the money back. That is all I am suggesting. I am not here
to be an enemy of the Administration. I am just saying, "I want to make sure that
connection to the pandemic exists and we are not using ARPA funds or another other
COVID-19 money to do work for the County that has absolutely no connection to the
pandemic, because we will have to pay that back.
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes, definitely.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: For clarification, because I am not sure that the
Chair knows, Nick Courson is no longer with us.
Council Chair Rapozo: What?
COUNCIL MEETING 41 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: He left.
Council Chair Rapozo: Did he leave the County?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Did he quit?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Great.
Ms. Matsuyama: No, not great.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am being facetious. I like Nick. He is a great
person.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:33 a.m., for a caption break.
The meeting was called back to order at 10:43 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Reiko, you may continue. I guess you want to
do this colorful one. Go ahead.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Ms. Matsuyama: The colorful one that you can barely read is all
for housing. The Housing Agency received almost forty-four million
dollars ($44,000,000). It was forty-three million seven hundred thousand
dollars ($43,700,000). Of that, only five hundred twenty thousand dollars ($520,000) is
left. Most of went out through Kaua`i Federal Credit Union and the Employee Rental
Assistance (ERA) grants. Those were used to keep tenants in their homes during
COVID-19.
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as present.)
Ms. Matsuyama: They got an initial tranche of twenty-two
million dollars ($22,000,000) and because they were successful in getting that money
out, they got more money. They got sixteen million seven hundred thousand
dollars ($16,700,000), which is that middle section. Most of that money has been spent.
Then they got an additional ARPA funding for a little over five million
dollars ($5,000,000). Most of that has been spent. Of the five hundred twenty thousand
COUNCIL MEETING 42 JANUARY 18, 2024
dollars ($520,000) that is left in all of these funds, most of it is supposed to be
restricted...restricted is a bad word...it is supposed to be used for Administration and
it is a little high, but what the Federal government has made us responsible for is
audits, so we have kept an additional cushion in there in case we need to audit and if
we are put on the hook for fraudulent applications, we would need to vet that. That is
why there is a little more money in there than usual for Administration. If you have
additional questions, I will turn it over to Adam, because he is responsible for this.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess at some point we need to determine
whether or not we hold that reserve or overflow for...and I do not know at what point
that happens.
Ms. Matsuyama: Adam will spend it within the Lima Ola project
and those kinds of things. He will spend it within housing.
Council Chair Rapozo: We need to, right? Those funds are specifically
for housing.
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes. We will not give it back, is what I am
saying.
Council Chair Rapozo: Does anyone have any questions? Go ahead,
Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: This is a process question. Is it that it is not
mandated for us to do an audit, but they may ask for us to do an audit?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes, and these funds have the same timeline.
We still have until 2026 to spend it, so there is quite a bit of time before we know
whether of not we might need it or not.
Councilmember Bulosan: Follow-up to that, if there an audit is done and
there was a fraudulent case or use of funds from someone submitting the wrong
information or paperwork, do these funds cover that cost or do they come somewhere
else?
Ms. Matsuyama: I am not entirely sure.
Council Chair Rapozo: It becomes deobligated. Like any Federal
funding, if it is not spent the way it is supposed to be spent, it is deobligated, and you
pay it back. That is how it works. It is happening across the country, which is why I am
very, very concerned that some of these projects may not fit the eligibility requirements.
I want to make sure that we do it right.
COUNCIL MEETING 43 JANUARY 18, 2024
Mr. Roversi: Adam Roversi, Housing Director for the
County. Specifically to your question, in the rental assistance, there has been discussion
from the United States (U.S.) Department of the Treasury that local jurisdictions may
be responsible for paying back fraudulent payments made under programs that they
administer. We distributed about thirty-two million dollars ($32,000,000) to more than
two thousand (2,000) households on Kaua`i. There were instances of fraud. We caught
many during the application process and no funds were paid out. Some were caught
after the fact. All that we identified were reported to KPD, the State Department of the
Attorney General, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and the U.S. Department
of the Treasury. I know the investigations for some of them are ongoing. As they
conclude, we do not know, but we may be required to pay back if we are found at fault.
It was administered by Kaua`i Federal Credit Union (KFCU), but the buck stops with
us because we provided them the money. It is unknown whether the U.S. Department
of the Treasury will stick by those guidelines and demand funds back, and whether we
will be able to claw some of it back through ongoing criminal investigations. Those are
some unknowns. I think that is why, as Reiko mentioned, there is a cushion just in case
the Federal government asks for some of these funds back.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead, Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: You mentioned Kaua`i Federal Credit Union.
Gather Federal Credit Union used to-be called that, too. Was it Kaua`i Federal Credit
Union or Gather Federal Credit Union?
Mr. Roversi: Kaua`i Federal Credit Union is the
administrator for this program?
Councilmember Kagawa: It is not Gather?
Mr. Roversi: It is not Gather.
Councilmember Kagawa: Gather changed their name, so people get
confused.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is the old Kaua`i Government Employee
Federal Credit Union (KGEFCU).
Mr. Roversi: Kaua`i Government Employee Federal Credit
Union changed their name during this program.
Council Chair Rapozo: It changed during the pandemic, so this
program may have started with KGEFCU.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to clarify, so people out there
know.
COUNCIL MEETING 44 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: They did a great job, they helped a ton of
households, and the process was pretty simple. To the current governor's liaison on
Kaua`i...why is her name not coming to me?
Ms. Matsuyama: Dana.
Councilmember Cowden: Dana Hazelton.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, Dana Hazelton. She was the
Administrator of that program at the credit union and did an amazing job.
Mr. Roversi: To "toot" KFCU's horn as well as my staff who
worked with them, the County of Kaua`i did a better job than virtually any other
jurisdiction in Hawai`i of getting the money out efficiently and quickly, and throughout
this entire process, we met all of the Federal government's requirement of funds going
out the door quickly and you hit certain deadlines as a requirement of getting any
additional funds. To my recollection, we met every one of those deadlines before any of
the other counties did.
Council Chair Rapozo: Kudos to you and your staff, Adam. Good job.
Go ahead.
Councilmember Bulosan: In the worst-case scenario, say there are
pending cases and these funds need to be administered by January 2026.
Ms. Matsuyama: It is the end of the year.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Bulosan: Is it the end of 2026?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes.
Councilmember Bulosan: If there are cases that go past that deadline and
we, obviously, cannot hold these funds, then would it come from the contingencies that
we have?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes.
Councilmember Bulosan: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
COUNCIL MEETING 45 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: Based on my understanding of this entire
spreadsheet, and for clarity to the far left is where you have the totals, as opposed to
the far right. When you talked about what is left as being the five hundred twenty
thousand dollars ($520,000), is that only in the columns described as unassigned?
Ms. Matsuyama: Correct.
Councilmember Kuali`i: But actually, what is left is five million seven
hundred thousand dollars ($5,700,000), right? The bulk of that is in the column under
affordable housing development. Is the three million eight hundred thousand
dollars ($3,800,000) what you were referring to when you said, "We have until 2026."
Are you not worried about spending it down, because with Lima Ola and other housing
projects, we will spend it down? Is that correct?
Mr. Roversi: With that pool of funding, which, if you look
under the affordable housing tab...I know it is hard to read...that started out as a
four-hundred-million-dollar fund. That is a percentage of the total we received, allowed
under the Federal guidelines, to be used specifically for construction of affordable
housing. We have these funds earmarked for one (1) of two (2) projects, and we will use
it for whichever project we can get the approvals for first. We are working with
Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR) to acquire additional land next to
the existing Kealaula Supportive Housing Project. If we can get that deal "inked" and
finalized, our intention is to utilize those funds to build another approximately
twenty-four (24) units immediately next door to the existing Kealaula Supportive
Housing Project for homeless families. Alternatively, because we do not want to put all
our eggs in one basket, we are working with the Department of Health and
Representative Nakamura, identifing a piece of property adjacent to Mahelona Hospital
for a potential third Eastside supportive housing project. If we are able to get
entitlements and approvals for that project first, we will step away from the expansion
of the Lihu`e project, at least with these funds. It does not mean we could not pursue it
with additional funds. Either case, we have two (2) projects. Both are going through the
process of predevelopment and approvals, and those funds will be allocated to whichever
one is ready to go first.We are working to do both of them and we will identify additional
funding in the hopes of accomplishing both.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I understand what the columns all are, except
one. What is the one that has HCA for two hundred sixty-nine thousand
dollars ($269,000)?
Mr. Roversi: That stands for Hawai`i Community Assets.
They provide financial counseling and debt consolidation services to any clients who go
and ask them. They have an existing, ongoing contract that we just renewed, actually.
Those funds are remaining in the existing contract, but we have every expectation that
COUNCIL MEETING 46 JANUARY 18, 2024
the contract, as it plays out, over the next one and a half(PA) to two (2) years, we will
expend those funds.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are the bold numbers encumbered and just not
spent yet?
Councilmember Kuali`i: The balance, as of.
Mr. Roversi: Correct. They are...
Council Chair Rapozo: Accounted for.
Mr. Roversi: ...almost all under an existing grant or
contract that is in play as we speak.
Councilmember Kuali`i: When I look to the top of the HCA column and
go down, the first number I see is two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) and it says
fourth payment...I guess it is the allocation of that seven million five hundred thousand
dollars ($7,500,000). Is there another two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000)?
Mr. Roversi: Yes, there was second allocation. We amended
that.
Councilmember Kuali`i: There are no dates or anything on that.
Mr. Roversi: We amended the contract so they had a
multi-year contract. The first year was two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000). We
amended and entered into a new contract for an additional two hundred thousand
dollars ($200,000).
(Councilmember Cowden was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Kuali`i: Out of four hundred thousand
dollars ($400,000), we have not quite spent half, but over the next two (2) years, you
will have no issues spending the remaining two hundred sixty-eight thousand
dollars ($268,000)?
Mr. Roversi: Correct. We do not believe so.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Mr. Roversi: They are also just of note there. They are the
primary housing counselor for all of our Lima Ola single-family home sales as well, so
that is part of what they are working on.
COUNCIL MEETING 47 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Adam?If not,
thank you very much. The last one is transportation, right?
Ms. Matsuyama: Yes. Transportation got a separate pot of
money. It was just over fourteen million dollars ($14,000,000). Eight million one
hundred thousand dollars ($8,100,000) has been expended, and there is about five
million five hundred thousand dollars ($5,500,000) remaining. Most of that money is
designated for shop and base expansion. I will bring Celia up, if you have further
questions.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Kuali`i: What is under Transit Operations? What does
that mean?
CELIA M. MAHIKOA, Executive on Transportation: Hello. I am Celia
Mahikoa, Executive of the Transportation Agency. The Transit Operations category
includes just about any and every operating expense that we would incur in order to
keep public transit operating on the island.
(Councilmember Cowden was noted as present.)
Ms. Mahikoa: Therefore, the vast majority of it is any payroll
and fringe expenses, gasoline, parts, repairs and maintenance of the vehicles, et cetera.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, thank
you. Are there any other questions for Reiko before we excuse her? If not, thank you,
Reiko.
Ms. Matsuyama: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Seeing none. Is there any further discussion? Councilmember Bulosan.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Bulosan: Thank you, Chair, for bringing this to the table,
I think it is super important for us to review beforehand. It is good to see where we are
at in expending most of these funds and the direction of the Administration for spending
COUNCIL MEETING 48 JANUARY 18, 2024
these funds. I think they are rightly appropriated. I hope we execute them fast, use
them in time, we do it properly, and we find a new Nick Courson, so that we can make
sure it is all proper.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I also really appreciate these numbers being
brought forward to us so that we can look at it and evaluate it. I am certainly glad that
we were able to get these funds. I am very grateful to it. It made a big difference for so
many. I want to give a big shout out to Rise to Work. Our Chair did not know about
that. That was wonderful. It was not just nonprofit organizations. Business got it. It
was a win-win. People got money, they worked, and businesses and nonprofit
organizations were able to move forward. So much of this was placed out in ways that
helped people to be able to retain their houses. It was wonderful having it cover the
buses. Just by taking care of that completely, it allowed us to have a lot more money to
spend in different ways.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Councilmember Cowden: I do want to really work to see that we are
diligent, that we are able to apply the funding in ways that we will not be surprised
later. I just have to say that at the National Association of Counties (NACo), I sat
through a handful of different presentations where they really emphasized the
importance of making sure that we have everything in the right category, so I appreciate
your diligence and as we move forward, we make sure that we do not have any claw
backs where we have to give money back to the government, but all the many ways that
it was spent to the benefit of our community was great.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other comments?
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I have a different view on
the funding for the renovations of Pi`ikoi. Whether we use that money or County money,
it needs to be done. It is falling apart. If we do not fix it, it can fall apart. I think we need
to reinforce that building, but I agree with Council Chair Rapozo as well, whether it is
tied to COVID-19 or whether it is most needed at the time, the fact of the matter is it
needs to be renovated. It needs to be upgraded so it can either be offices or a childcare
center. There are childcare centers right know that do a great job, but they pay
significant rent and if they could lower...I am talking about `Ae Kamali`i or even the
Lihu`e Hongwanji...if they could be provided with that big space and put their efforts
together, how much children could they help serve?It was part of the Senate President's
message yesterday. In his message, he spoke about providing early childcare education
is so important as a priority for the State, and he said that because he has a new
grandson who turns two (2) or three (3) years old, or whenever he can go to childcare,
COUNCIL MEETING 49 JANUARY 18, 2024
but it should not be that you think about it when you have a child. The cost of childcare
has been a problem for a long time. Some people do not do it because of the cost. For the
children who go to kindergarten without that early childhood care, are they behind?
That is the question. Sometimes there is good care at home where they are taught things
that they would learn at preschool, but that is the question because everyone has
different needs. Some people live here without family, some do. They have grandparents
and whoever else who can help full-time. Everyone is in a different situation. Like Reiko
said, we have potential workers who cannot work for the County because they have
those childcare needs out there. Sometimes you think, "Should I work or should I just
watch my child?What is more beneficial for me?"A lot of times, working for the County
when you are just going to pay expensive childcare costs is not worth it. Does it tie in to
COVID-19? It is all hypothetical, but I think there is a big need. The Senate President
said it. If we can fix up that space, which is not being used now, I think I need to agree
with the Mayor. It was a good idea, but whether we can carry it out and serve more of
the community with what we have now is the question. I am open to that idea, Chair,
so do not take offense to that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is never personal. Is there anyone else? Our
job is that we are the checks and the balances, and we are to make sure that we follow
the rules and that we comply with the Federal requirements with any funding that we
get. I do not see the connection between...what we see at the building is deferred
maintenance. We just have not taken care of the building and that is why it is that way.
It is not uncommon, whether it is local or state. We saw the housing project in Kapa`a.
It is the same thing, right?You cannot blame the deferred maintenance on COVID-19.
You cannot. It is because we did not take care of the building and now it is leaking. I
will reiterate. I sat here through at least two (2) space studies that we did and I am
thinking it was probably two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) or three hundred
thousand dollars ($300,000) a piece. The studies clearly showed that we needed to
expand office space for our workers. We did all the studies and we never did the job.
While the Senate President's message was a good one and I agree with him one hundred
percent (100%), it is a priority of the State and it should be a priority of the State. It
should be the State doing that, not the counties, because we have enough on our plate
with limited funding that I think we need to manage. The youth center, while I would
agree that it might be a deterrent for people to go to work, you are talking about public
funds that are going to be used for public employees. I know Reiko said it would not
only be for County employees, but I can guarantee that the bulk of it would be County
employees. I wish we could provide that. I wish we had the funding to provide that. We
do not have the funding and we do not have the resources to operate the facility. We do
not. What will happen is we will put seven million dollars ($7,000,000) toward fixing
the roof, we will create the shell, we will do whatever we will do, we will put it our to
contract, and hope that we find a provider that can provide adequate service.
Remember, when you put it out to a nonprofit organization, how will you say this is only
for County employees. They will not. They will take whoever needs childcare. Again, I
fully support being able to provide that, but I do not see the direct connection to the
COUNCIL MEETING 50 JANUARY 18, 2024
pandemic. I do not know how that was stretched. It is like how I feel about the wash
rack. I want to be really cautious and maybe take a second look. When you talk about
direct impacts to our community from the pandemic, I think mental health stands out
as the biggest impact that we have had, and it continues. It did not go away when the
pandemic went away. It is still here. While I see youth mental recovery, what I see is
funding of KPAL, which I fully support, but it pays for a lease at a building and possible
reconstruction of the facility, which I fully support, but I think it should maybe be done
with Capital Improvement Projects (CIP) money or General Fund money. While I am
not involved with the Drug Treatment Center anymore or on the Board, I am a very
strong advocate, because I think that is service is one that is directly related to the
pandemic. Our children are suffering mentally today because of the pandemic,but there
is no funding in here for that. Madam Clerk, we need to figure out how we can have this
discussion and figure out what ability or authority this Council has to move some of
these moneys around, because when I see cesspool conversion, again, I do not see how
that is a direct connection to the pandemic, although, we were informed at our
conference that we can use ARPA funds, COVID-19 money, for improvements to
wastewater, maybe this is one, but I would definitely love to see more money in there,
so we can start helping our residents get their conversions done, so we can help them
create more units, so we can put more people in homes. We cannot do that right now. I
would love to put an Additional Rental Unit (ARU) in my backyard, but I cannot afford
forty thousand dollars ($40,000), which is what I was quoted for a septic system, but if
the County would be able to offer some sort of subsidy, I might, and I could promise you
it would be an affordable housing unit back there. Then maybe one of my children would
come home. I doubt it, though. Let us try to work on that and see how we can readdress
the need that we have today, and see how we can better use these funds.
The motion to receive C 2024-07 for the record was then put, unanimously
carried.
C 2024-08 Communication (12/21/2023) from the Fire Chief, requesting
Council approval of the provisions in the Hangar Facilities Lease Agreement with the
State of Hawai`i, Department of Transportation, and to indemnify the State of Hawai`i,
to designate an optimal and mutually agreed upon site for the placement of an aircraft
storage hangar intended for the Kaua`i Fire Department helicopter.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-08, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any questions for the Fire
Department?
Councilmember Cowden: Let us just bring them up.
COUNCIL MEETING 51 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have a question? If not, I will not bring
them up. This is an indemnification. If you have a question, Councilmember Cowden,
we will bring them up.
Councilmember Cowden: Is this what we have been looking at? It almost
looks like a tent.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, come on up.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
ROGER MILLS, Deputy Fire Chief: Good morning, Councilmembers.
Deputy Chief Roger Mills, sitting in for Chief Gibson.
Councilmember Cowden: We have seen a couple of different pieces of
what we were going to do. It looks like the current hangar is almost like a big tent that
is coming apart, like a big yurt kind of roof.
Mr. Mills: More or less. It is a little bit sturdier than a
yurt or a big tent. It is an actual metal structure that is cemented into the ground.
Councilmember Cowden: We have seen pictures where it is coming apart
at the seems a little bit. It does not look very good.
Mr. Mills: It has not been put up yet.
Councilmember Cowden: Where our hangar is now.
Mr. Mills: You are talking about our current one.
Councilmember Cowden: The existing one.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is about an indemnification agreement
between the County and the State's Airport Division for the right-of-entry to this facility
where this building will be constructed.
Councilmember Cowden: Is it just the right-of-entry? Okay, nevermind.
Thank you. I just wanted to make sure it is the same thing, but it is just the
right-of-entry.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is what it is. Thank you.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 52 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Seeing none. Is there any further discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-08 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-09 Communication (12/26/2023) from the Emergency Management
Administrator, requesting Council approval to receive reimbursements from the State
of Hawaii Emergency Management Agency (HI-EMA) under the Addendum to Act 095
— Intrastate Mutual Aid System agreement, dated October 27, 2023, for expenses
incurred as a result of extending aid and assistance to Maui, regarding
FEMA-DR-4724-HI.
Councilmember Kualii moved to approve C 2024-09, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any questions for HI-EMA or KEMA?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Come on up. Thank you for being here, sir.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
SOLOMON K. KANOHO, Special Executive Officer of Emergency Management:
Good morning, Chair and Councilmembers. For the record, my name is Solomon
Kanoho. I am the Special Executive Officer for KEMA.
Councilmember Cowden: How much did we spend? How long were we
there? How much are we getting back? Did we learn anything?
Mr. Kanoho: Great questions. I will try to answer them in
order, but I apologize if I jump around a little bit.
Councilmember Cowden: Just the big picture.
Mr. Kanoho: As part of the process through natural
disasters, KEMA was reached out to by the Maui Emergency Management Agency to
assist them with recovery. There is an umbrella organization called HI-EMA, which is
the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, that oversees each agency across the
COUNCIL MEETING 53 JANUARY 18, 2024
State. We have what is called a request for assistance (RFA) that comes through this
process, and through that we use that mechanism to support other agencies or other
counties in case of a natural disaster. In total, we received four (4) RFAs. The first one
came immediately after the Lahaina wildfires. At that time, our Administrator was
asked to come over along with additional personnel, so that first RFA was for two (2) of
our personnel to go over and assist. Subsequent to that, as part of our incident
management team through KEMA here on Kaua`i, we sent over an additional five (5)
personnel from part of our team.This incident management team comprises individuals
who have particular set skills in incident management. Our third RFA came in the
following month, at the beginning of September, where we sent back a previous member
from the first deployment, along with two (2) additional members to fulfill that RFA
that was geared more towards operational assistance within their emergency
operations center. Finally, the last RFA was for communications support. Here in the
County, we have a team in our police and fire assets that have personnel who can deploy
portable repeatable or cellular systems in the event that we lose communications for
our response network. They were sent over to assist their agency in ensuring continuity
of operations in that respect. In the process when these RFAs were going back and forth,
we consulted with the agencies and Office of the County Attorney to have a mutual aid
agreement signed by HI-EMA and the County of Maui. Knowing that because of the
size and scope of the disaster, it would probably be deemed a Federal disaster, that
designation came hand-in-hand with that RFA received through HI-EMA. The total
amount of funding spread over the four (4) RFAs was one hundred nine thousand eight
hundred sixteen dollars and seventy-five cents ($109,816.75). We are seeking approval
of receipt of those funds back into the County.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any additional questions.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes. Thank you for doing your paperwork right.
Do you anticipate any problems? Will we get that back?
Mr. Kanoho: No, we do not anticipate any problems. That is
correct.
Councilmember Cowden: Did you learn much? Do you feel like it
prepared us better?
Mr. Kanoho: We are very fortunate here. Maybe that is not
the most operative or correct word. We have a lot of experience in natural disasters here
in the County. For those who do not know, I was the former Assistant Fire Chief of
Operations for the Kaua`i Fire Department (KFD). Through the course of the last
ten (10) years or so, we have actually made it a point to expand our emergency
operations, including personnel and equipment to respond to disasters that included in
KEMA. Being able to coordinate effectively with different agencies throughout the
County and with the public was a process we started and we certified our personnel
COUNCIL MEETING 54 JANUARY 18, 2024
within our incident management team, starting in 2015. Since then,we have had people
who have since retired, so we are in the rebuilding process with that, but it is a key
aspect. Without getting into too much detail, communication is key. Having the ability
to understand or know what is occurring. We used to call that situational awareness in
the fire service. Being able to communicate effectively with your personnel on the field
in that case is one thing that has always been critical and part of the process. We try to
bring in other agencies both within the County, the State, and the private sector.
Normally, when we have a situation where we have a red flag warning, especially since
we are talking about the wildfires, we have briefings that are done across the State and
normally the weather service will have that information for us. In that instance, we will
have all the agencies come in for the briefing. I will add a little sidebar. During the event
in August, because of my connection and past history of the fire, for every morning from
the red flag warning, I met with the on-duty Operation Battalion Chief every morning
at 6:30 to go over what the current operating picture is and what they need as far as
assistance to include contract assistance from the Department of Transportation (DOT)
or private contractors. All assets. The situation that did occur on Maui could have
happened anywhere and because of dealing with any kind of windspeed, even above
thirty-five (35) or forty (40) miles an hour, let alone seventy (70) miles an hour, is a
firestorm that is just going to overrun all your assets. One of the key things following
that would be public education and to build fire-resistant communities. That is the part
of the process that we reached out to the Hawai`i Wildfire Management Organization
to help with assistance. They have been around for a number of years, and they are very
critical to the overall safety for our community. I think I have gone on a little bit too
long. I apologize.
Councilmember Cowden: No, that is great. Thank you so much for that.
I appreciate that.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? Go ahead.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember De Costa: Thank you for your wealth of knowledge. You
still came back and continue to serve the County. We could not pay a person with your
expertise to be in that position, so thank you so much. You spoke about Lahaina, the
fires, and fire mitigation, we had a big talk story with the fire marshal yesterday and
just being able to learn from Lahaina, but it seems like things are not moving. I want
to ask you this question. On Kaua`i, do you see potential Lahaina areas?
Council Chair Rapozo: I did not want to interrupt you during your
amazing education, but this item is focused on the reimbursement of the Maui fires. If
we want to have a wildfire discussion with KFD, we can do that in a Committee
Meeting.
COUNCIL MEETING 55 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember DeCosta: I am sorry.
Council Chair Rapozo: No, you do not need to apologize. I am listening
to this because there is so much good information, but the topic today is the
reimbursement request for the deployment to Maui.
Councilmember DeCosta: I have no questions on that.
Mr. Kanoho: Alright. Thank you. I can answer any questions
outside of this.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, thank
you very much.
Mr. Kanoho: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Come on up, Bruce.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Chair, process-wise, the reason we are
supposed to stay on point is because that is what is on the agenda and that is what the
public was notified as on the agenda, so if you start having any other discussions, it is
a violation.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. I just want to say I
am glad we were able to help out our neighbors. What we learned from this...what I
would suggest is prevention. We are just going to have to knuckle down and whenever
is a potential Lahaina, as Councilmember DeCosta asked, we are going to have to do
what we can to fix it. There were too many lives lost. It is too much heartache. Again,
as a member of the Kaua`i community, I am happy to be able to help our of Maui
community, and offer my condolences to the people who are hurting. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
audience wishing to testify? Seeing none.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-09 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) or the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be noted as
an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 56 JANUARY 18, 2024
C 2024-10 Communication (12/26/2023) from the Emergency Management
Administrator, requesting Council approval to receive and expend funding awarded
under the Federal Emergency Management Agency's (FEMA's) Hazard Mitigation
Grant Program (HMGP DR-4549-02-02R) for Phase I of the Hanalei Hill Emergency
Access Road project, in the amount of$65,540.70.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-10, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. If you could, state your name for the
record, please.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
DAVID KENNARD, Disaster Assistant Principal Project Manager: This is
David Kennard. I work with the Kaua`i Emergency Management Agency.
Mr. Kanoho: Solomon Kanoho, Special Executive Officer of
KEMA.
Council Chair Rapozo: You can just give us an overview of the request
and if we-ask questions, if we have any. Your request is pretty self-explanatory.
Mr. Kanoho: I will defer to David.
Mr. Kennard: After the events on the North Shore the last
couple of years, it became clear that it would be useful to have an additional to get access
to the North Shore if there were similar landslides to what we had before. Especially if
there is inclement weather where helicopters cannot fly, a medical emergency, or other
emergency, to be able to get emergency response vehicles down the hill and back up the
hill seemed important. We have begun the discussions with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service (FWS) folks and with Kaua`i Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC) about access to
the old government road that goes up the hillside there and to get it to a point where it
could be used for emergency vehicles to access the North Shore.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Just for clarification, I was looking at that this
weekend. I think it is an area I have been asking for a while. We have the metal bridge,
we have the road that goes back to the taro patch, and then there is the metal gate that
swings open. Is that one end of it and the other one is up near the roundabout at
Princeville?
COUNCIL MEETING 57 JANUARY 18, 2024
Mr. Kennard: That is correct, if I understand what you are
saying. There is a KIUC substation at the bottom of the hill. There is a gate that
provides access to the substation and then the old government road that goes up to the
top.
Councilmember Cowden: Does that road have the powerlines on it?
Mr. Kennard: No. I believe KIUC uses that road to access the
powerlines, but the right-of-way to access the powerlines is separate from that road.
Councilmember Cowden: I think that would be a great piece, and I know
that the community in Hanalei is asking for that. When I am driving up there right
now, I see there is a crazy road going like this. It is scary with the excavator underneath
it. What is going on there? It is right there on the face. Do you folks know?
Mr. Kanoho: I am not too familiar with the area you are
talking about.
Councilmember Cowden: It is the slide. It goes like this. Do you not
know?
Mr. Kanoho: This road was utilized in March 2021, when we
had the initial slides. Part of this is for safety and due diligence to make sure that any
personnel or community member who is injured who we need to bring up, that it is safe.
Councilmember Cowden: Is it behind the gate up there?
Mr. Kanoho: Yes. The road does cross in certain sections.
The road does cross underneath the powerlines section, because it has an S-turn to it,
but it does not follow or is not continuous underneath the powerlines.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you. I want to walk it. Can I?
Mr. Kennard: You will have to ask U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service. They control it.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, thank
you.
Mr. Kanoho: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 58 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Seeing none. Is there any further discussion? Go ahead.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to say it is desperately needed, long
overdue, and I am really happy and shocked that it does not cost very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is Phase I.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is Phase I, which means there will probably
be a Phase II, so you are correct.
Councilmember Cowden: I was hopeful, and then I saw the low amount
and thought, "In government money, that is nothing."
Council Chair Rapozo: That is just the pupu. Is there any other
discussion?
The motion to approve C 2024-10 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) or the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be noted as
an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-11 Communication (01/02/2024) from the Director of Economic
Development, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend funds from
the Hawai`i Tourism Authority, in the amount of$47,520.00, to support funding for the
continuation of coordination of cruise ship greetings at the Nawiliwili Harbor for
January through May 2024.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-11, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any questions? Yes. Come on up.
Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Is this going to be the Kupuna program that
was there that was great? Is it the same as what we did have.
COUNCIL MEETING 59 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: If you could state your name.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Ms. Ka'auwai-Brun: I am sorry. Nalani Brun, Director of the Office
of Economic Development. No, we actually came here a year ago asking for funds and
the funds never came. As I think everyone here knows, Hawai`i Tourism Authority is
sort of in a flux right now. This program is only for the first five (5) months of this year
and right now we are in a holding pattern with the kupuna because we cannot take
them in and out. It is a tricky thing for us to get them onto property, because you have
to have all these ID cards. We are planning our next round, which, hopefully, Hawai`i
Tourism Authority will be whole and as of July, we can get additional points. At that
point, we would incorporate the kupuna. This program, for this first five (5) months, is
basically (1) to again get the regular entertainers, which is about four (4) people to go
down and entertain, and (2) we are finishing out semi-beautifying the sugar shack. We
have murals now that have technological (tech) ability. You can go up to a mural. It is
a beautiful mural, it has Hawaiian words, it has a lot of cultural significance, and you
can hold your phone up and it will give you more information, including putting a lei on
yourself and you can take a photo, there are flowers falling, and there is information for
learning about the Nawiliwili area. In the meantime, we are trying to prepare for the
next round, which we will come back for, where we are hoping to reincorporate the
kupuna.
Councilmember Cowden: Is there lei making?
Ms. Ka'auwai-Brun: Not yet.
Councilmember Cowden: They are anxious.
Ms. Ka'auwai-Brun: I know.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions. If not, thank
you.Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify?Seeing none. Is there any further
discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-11 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) or the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be noted as
an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 JANUARY 18, 2024
CLAIMS:
C 2024-13 Communication (12/11/2023) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Carol Kimura, for damage to her property,
pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i.
C 2024-14 Communication (12/19/2023) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kauai by M. Andrea Alfiler, for vehicle damage,
pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i.
C 2024-15 Communication (12/21/2023) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Shantel Duarte, for personal injury to her
child, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i.
C 2024-16 Communication (12/22/2023) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Tyler Carr, for personal injuries and
medical expenses, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2024-13, C 2024-14, C 2024-15, and
C 2024-16 to the Office of the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back
to the Council, seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there anyone in the
audience wishing to testimony? Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to refer C 2024-13, C 2024-14, C 2024-15, and C 2024-16 to the Office
of the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council was then
put, and unanimously carried (Pursuant to Rule 5(b) of the Rules of the Council
of the County of Kauai, Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent(not present),
but shall be noted as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
PUBLIC WORKS & VETERANS SERVICES COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PWVS 2024-01) submitted by the Public Works & Veterans
Services Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
COUNCIL MEETING 61 JANUARY 18, 2024
"PWVS 2024-01 — Communication (11/30/2023) from Councilmember
Kagawa, requesting the presence of the County Engineer, the State
Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR), and Kaua`i Island Utility
Cooperative (KIUC) to provide a briefing regarding Awawa Road in Hanapepe
Valley including overgrown road shoulders and trees entangled in electrical
wires,"
A report (No. CR-PWVS 2024-02) submitted by the Public Works & Veterans
Services Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"PWVS 2024-02 — Communication (12/13/2023) from Councilmember
Cowden, requesting the presence of the County Engineer and the
Environmental Services Manager, to provide a briefing regarding the plan to
address the stipulations imposed by the Board of Land and Natural
Resources (BLNR) for the upcoming landfill extension,"
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the reports, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public or testimony?
Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE:
A report (No. CR-COW 2024-01) submitted by the Committee of the Whole,
recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"COW 2024-01 — Communication (10/30/2023) from Council Chair
Rapozo, requesting the presence of Kirk K. Deitscheman, Makai Watch
Coordinator, State of Hawai`i Department of Land and Natural Resources,
Division of Conservation and Resources Enforcement, and Makaala
Ka'aumoana, Executive Director, Hanalei Watershed Hui, to provide a briefing
on the State of Hawai`i Department of Land and Natural Resources' Makai
Watch program and participating community programs on Kaua`i,"
COUNCIL MEETING 62 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone discussion or public
testimony? Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2024-01 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE LIQUOR CONTROL COMMISSION (Chad K. Pacheco)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-01,
seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony? Seeing none, roll call.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-01 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 7*,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
(*Pursuant to Rule 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
COUNCIL MEETING 63 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2024-02 — RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR OR
THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI TO ENTER INTO
AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF HAWAII,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH FOR A LOAN FROM THE STATE WATER
POLLUTION CONTROL REVOLVING FUND FOR THE WAILUA WWTP
IMPROVEMENTS PHASE II, PROJECT NO. C150055-08
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-02,
seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Troy, you can give us an overview
of the request.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
TROY K. TANIGAWA, County Engineer: Troy Tanigawa, County
Engineer. This Resolution that we have asked you folks to consider is similar to prior
resolutions where we have asked for approval to enter into this intergovernmental
agreement with the State Department of Health to fund through, what I believe is,
the State Revolving Fund (SRF) that funds wastewater facility improvements. This
particular request before you is for permission to enter into this agreement for a
fourteen-million-dollar loan to fund improvements at the Wailua Wastewater
Treatment Plant. It is Phase II of a construction project that will help the wastewater
treatment plant. It will pretty much bring it up to date with current equipment and
facilities that they need to operate properly.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for providing a breakdown of the
costs. Can you help me to understand what process improvement means and what
civil site work means?
Mr. Tanigawa: Civil site work is basically work where they
are going to be preparing foundations. They are working with the ground to excavate,
or do cut and fill. It is basically to prepare areas for construction. Process
improvements are actual facilities at the treatment plant that are needed for the
treatment process. For example, your filters that are used to filter suspended solids
from the treated wastewater. That is one of the things they will be updating. It is
those other types of facilities.
Councilmember Cowden: Is it fixing the existing and not building anew
next to it? Is it fixing that...there are two (2) systems right next to each other. The
COUNCIL MEETING 64 JANUARY 18, 2024
one that is more makai does not seem to be working anymore, if I am remembering
correctly.
DONN T. KAKUDA, Civil Engineer VI: Donn Kakuda, Civil Engineer,
Wastewater Division. This project is just to fix what we have. Our clarifier is broken,
so this project will fix both clarifiers. It will also change the aeration basin and
provide new pumps for the aeration. Also, with the filters, we have one (1) filter, and
this project will add a second, so that we have redundancy. Right now, if our one (1)
filter goes down, we do not have anything else.
Councilmember Cowden: Will this add capacity or just help make what
we put in the ocean outflow be better or more healthy?
Mr. Kakuda: The plant is rated for one million five
thousand (1,500,000) gallons per day, but in the condition it is now, we would
probably rate it at one million (1,000,000) gallons. This basically will fix half (1/2) of
the plant. The other phase will try to fix the other half(1/2). We are trying to get back
to the point of our one million five hundred thousand (1,500,000) gallons.
Councilmember Cowden: Is it also cleaner when it goes out?
Mr. Kakuda: It is just more'reliable. If we have two (2)
filters and one (1) filter breaks, then we have time to fix it. Right now, we do not have
that redundancy. The clarifiers will help, too.
Council Chair Rapozo: Help me to understand. You said that plant is
one (1) plant, right?
Mr. Kakuda: It is one (1) plant.
Council Chair Rapozo: One million five hundred
thousand (1,500,000) gallons per day is what it is rated at, but are you saying that
we do not have that capacity right now?
Mr. Kakuda: Due to the disrepair, our consultants tell us
we are rated at one million (1,000,000).
Council Chair Rapozo: We are rated at one million (1,000,000).
Mr. Kakuda: Currently.
Council Chair Rapozo: But are you saying that as it is today, with the
disrepair, we cannot put out one million (1,000,000) gallons a day?
COUNCIL MEETING 65 JANUARY 18, 2024
Mr. Kakuda: We can. I am saying that if we can fix it to its
original, then we can get back to our one million five hundred thousand (1,500,000).
Council Chair Rapozo: How much available capacity do we have
capacity in that plant? Do we have the capacity to add more users to that plant.
Mr. Kakuda: We currently take about six hundred
thousand (600,000) gallons a day. Per State rules, once we reach seventy-five
percent (75%), we must start designing an expansion. We could take on a little more
before we get to that point, but once we get to that point, we would really need to be
looking at where we would truthfully be moving the plant.
Council Chair Rapozo: Should we not be looking at that now?
Mr. Kakuda: We are. That is why in this past CIP budget
we put in one million dollars ($1,000,000) for a facility plan and we will ask for more
money this year to look into it further.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will have a discussion. Troy and I just
spoke last week, or whenever it was. I am interested in hearing what our sewer plan
is, because I am concerned about where the plant is at, because it is so close to the
ocean and it is in flood zone, or an inundation zone. We will have the discussion later,
because it is not posted. My concern is, are we going to continue to keep fixing this
with limited capacity, really. We cannot expand with the existing footprint. We need
more land to expand, right?
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Kakuda: It is possible to expand on the site, but I think
with what you are referring to—tsunami and floods—I think it would probably make
more sense to move it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. Go somewhere else. I think that is the
discussion we need to have. Where do we go? That is where we need to be focusing on
now, instead of waiting until we get to seventy-five percent (75%).
Mr. Kakuda: That is why we will ask for more money to
move those studies along.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Cowden: I have not been there for four (4) or five (5)
years and really looked at it deeply, but I do remember you can see rusted metal
COUNCIL MEETING 66 JANUARY 18, 2024
coming through the concrete? Has that been addressed? Is that something that can
be addressed?
Mr. Kakuda: It can be patched. Like I said, this project will
handle half(1/2) the plant, so we will fix those things.
Councilmember Cowden: Those have not yet been fixed. My memory is
and it sort of answers his question a little bit, we were facing a consent decree if we
did not fix it right now, so we did not have the time to just invest in a new plant. We
need to fix what is here now. Is that right?
Mr. Kakuda: The plant is in bad shape. If we do not fix it
now, we will be in big trouble.
Councilmember Cowden: We had no choice.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have known that for years. It seems like we
continue to put money in that plant.
Mr. Tanigawa: In short, wastewater treatment needs to be
ongoing. It has to occur on a day-to-day basis. We have to fix what we have now, so
we can continue that. Part of the fact plan process is to look at all of those things. It
is to look at the existing plant, do we have enough space to add capacity there, or if
we need to look elsewhere. All those things will be addressed.
Council Chair Rapozo: In our discussion, you said regardless of what
we do, we need to fix that now.
Mr. Tanigawa: Correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am good with that. I am just saying that we
really need to start thinking about going forward, and we need to do it sooner rather
than later. Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: This is more of a construction question for
you. I know stainless steel is the best route to go, and I know it is much more costly
than cast iron and iron we previously used within the facility. With the upgrades that
you are doing, are they short-term upgrades with cast iron and regular iron, or are
you moving towards stainless steel, because of the salt and the area it is located in?
Mr. Kakuda: As much as possible, we try to go with 316
stainless steel as much as possible, but like you said, it is much more costly. For our
other project, like even in Lihu`e, we try to go to 316 piping and whatnot.
COUNCIL MEETING 67 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you. This is long-term infrastructure
costs we are going to...
Mr. Kakuda: Yes. Less maintenance is always better for us.
Councilmember DeCosta: We are too poor to go cheap.
Council Chair Rapozo: I will put that on a t-shirt. Councilmember
Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: I thought you had your hand up.
Councilmember Carvalho: We have had this discussion before.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, many times.
Councilmember Carvalho: I just wanted to point it out again. Relocation.
We talked about this on Hawaiian Home Lands, and working on developing housing
right across the street. That is still on the table, right?We talked about that. For now,
though, you are saying we need to fix what we have with the intent of relocating it
that will benefit our people. I just want to make sure that conversation is on the table
and we are moving forward.
Council Chair Rapozo: Madam Clerk, can we look at scheduling a
briefing on that exact topic?You can put it in the Public Works and Veterans Services
Committee. We can have Donald and whoever else here, possibly the Department of
Hawaiian Home Lands, for that discussion. Are there any other questions? If not,
thank you, folks. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Seeing none, is
there any further discussion? Go ahead.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: I just really want to thank you folks for the
work that you are doing and you know how important all this work is. I am just
acknowledging that in case it sounded like I was not being grateful for moving
forward. I especially want to thank our wastewater people who work at the plant
there every day, and how they make a big difference for all of us. If any of them are
watching, a big mahalo to you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? One of the frustrations
of being a dinosaur on this body is that it is like these things never go away. We talked
COUNCIL MEETING 68 JANUARY 18, 2024
about this year and year out. We were talking about this way before Troy was there.
Troy is here now trying to clean up the mess. The longer we wait, the more we pay.
That is just how it works. We had this discussion when Councilmember Carvalho was
the mayor, and I thought we were getting close to moving that thing across the street
and onto land that can build a facility that can look at expanding sewer lines in the
Homesteads and the Houselots, and adding more people on the sewer lines, so they
do not need to go through the cesspool conversion. It is like we have always had this
discussion, and today we are here looking for a fourteen-million-dollar loan to bring
it up to standard. It is not to expand or do anything else. It is not your fault, Troy.
You inherited this, but we need to make a decision. It is "fish or cut bait" time. It is
the same with everything else. We need to decide and move, and we will pay the price.
We are going to pay a price, because we allowed it to get to this point. We will schedule
that briefing and we will see what we can do to move forward on expanding our sewer
service so we can do a better job for the environment and for our people. Is there any
other discussion? Go ahead, Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to comment that we receive a lot
of complaints about the sewer bills from people who are hooked up to the sewers,
especially those with a fixed income. One (1) or two (2) people flushing...their
question is always, "Why do I pay the same amount as people who are not on a fixed
income, working families with a lot of children?" The scary part is, with all these
backlogged repairs, we will come back with a consultant who will say we need to
double the sewer from what it is. These things have been put off over time...I do not
want to say neglect or whatever, but you cannot wait until it is terrible with rust
rotting through. It is just way too late. Where was the maintenance years ago when
it was not so much of a big problem to fix? As Council Chair Rapozo said, it is
frustrating. The mayor can only do so much. He has department heads, appointed
people, civil servants getting paid a lot of money, so letting things get to this point is
unacceptable. Now that we have these big costs coming up, even if it is matching,
should we be looking at General Excise Tax (GET)? Things where we cannot use all
for paving bridges and fixing bridges. Maybe use those moneys, instead of giving it to
transportation. I believe there are way more important needs that we need to be
creative. If we cannot use all those moneys for roads and bridges, then these types of
things need to be used, because I cannot see...we are already getting complaints from
people on the sewer system, and we will ask them to pay more because of all the
neglect of the existing sewer treatment plants and lines. I am hoping that we can
start fixing these problems before they become huge repair jobs. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: In a couple of months when we go through
budget, we will have the opportunity to redirect the direction of this County with CIP
projects and move funds to where it needs to be for the things that we need to do
rather than the things that we want to do. That is the bottom line. We set that, not
the mayor or the Administration. We will make that determination. It will be up to
us. Some projects will be cut if we want to move more money to work on our
COUNCIL MEETING 69 JANUARY 18, 2024
wastewater and everything else that is falling apart. We will definitely have that
discussion. With that, roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-02 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2024-03 — RESOLUTION APPROVING THE HAWAII STATE
ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES SLATE OF OFFICERS FOR CALENDAR
YEAR 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-03,
seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none, roll call.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-03 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7*,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
(*Pursuant to Rule 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Cowden was noted as silent, but shall be recorded as an
affirmative for the motion.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
COUNCIL MEETING 70 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2024-04 — RESOLUTION URGING THE HAWAII STATE
LEGISLATURE TO EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZE COUNTIES TO
AMORTIZE NONCONFORMING SINGLE-FAMILY TRANSIENT VACATION
RENTALS (TVRs)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-04,
seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Thank you for your patience.
Councilmember Cowden: I want discussion.
Council Chair Rapozo: What was that?
Councilmember Cowden: I want to talk.
Council Chair Rapozo: Of course. We will have a discussion. I just
want to take public testimony first.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
HEIDI SCHEMP: Hi. I am Heidi Schemp. I came today, because
I know it is just a letter. I heard that former Councilmember Luke Evslin, now
Representative, was proposing this bill at the State level. I wrote you folks testimony,
I sent an email, and I went through the list of Transient Vacation Nonconforming
Units (TVNCUs), of which there are about four hundred forty (440). I compared what
they are paying in property taxes. There are a number of them that seem to be
mixed-use, so they were not coded specifically as vacation rental units. There is a
little economic hit to the County, being that their property taxes were changed and
GET and Transient Accommodation Taxes (TAT) that all those places pay, and then
there is the effect to people, like myself, who manage these houses, clean these
houses, and you would be surprised at the amount of repairs that these houses take.
The other thing that I noticed was the addresses. If you look at the list, you will see
it is Weke Road, Anini Road—the places where these homes are is surely not going
to have a major effect on our normal people housing. Most of them seem to be on the
North Shore. Most of them seem to be within a block of the beach, if not, right on the
water. I understand the sentiment of the community that vacation rentals are not
doing any favors for housing, and I agree, but I think that maybe instead of something
like this, a better use of time and resources would be to not have more vacation
rentals come into the mix, so somehow putting a stop. I know we have the visitor
destination area (VDA), I do not know what percentage of Princeville is vacation
COUNCIL MEETING 71 JANUARY 18, 2024
rentals versus nonvacation rentals, but maybe having less of those convert over to
vacation rentals as they sell, change, or things happen. I think back on
condominiums. A friend of mine used to live in Banyan Harbor. It was almost
owner-occupied or long-term rentals, and now it is a vacation rental place. I think we
need to focus on eliminating those coming off.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else wishing to testify on this?
You can have your second three (3) minutes.
Ms. Schemp: That is all. I did not mean to take up all the
time. I just feel like we could put our uses in better places, and once there is already
an established source of income or to have that pulled away from people like me, it
affects the community, it affects these towns and streets. All we are going to do is add
more security guards to literally streets that will be barren, so I just want you folks
to think about all of that.
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Let me start by saying and give
some history that back in 2008 when we had this discussion, Jay Furfaro was the
Council Chair, and the whole objective was to not grow the number of TVRs on the
island. In fact, to your question about not allowing it anymore, it is illegal to have a
TVR in a non-VDA area, unless you are a nonconforming use. For us, because the
VDA does allow vacation rentals, we cannot take that away without paying the
owners for a taking. It is a Constitutional right. The nonconforming use, the way the
State law is written right now prohibits counties from amortizing the use of a
nonconforming unit if it is a single-family residence. That is what we are asking. The
reason our home values are high in certain areas is when you have a property that is
a TVR and when you decide to sell, that property has an income generation machine
built in, so naturally, you will have a higher market rate. It is just going to be, because
the new buyer does not have to go through the process and would not be able to get a
TVR anyway, because they are outside of a VDA. We have tried to get this law
changed for many, many, many, many years. We made a very strong push, I think,
at the Legislature in 2017, and it kept getting squashed because the lobby is so strong.
The money involved is so much that they get the Legislature to kill it without even
hearing it, which, to me, is unfair. This will allow this Council or any council, and I
believe we have the support of all four (4) counties...we met yesterday. It will give
this Council an opportunity to basically say, "If you sell your TVR, the use goes away."
The new buyer does not get that right because it was a nonconforming use. In other
words, at the time that we passed the law, the owner at that time was running a legal
TVR because there was no prohibition. Why would the new buyer who was not
running a TVR have that ability? That is where it stands today. The values of these
homes are...even residential units in subdivisions that are legally operating as a
COUNCIL MEETING 72 JANUARY 18, 2024
nonconforming use. I know, I have a few in my neighborhood in the Wailua Houselots.
They are not close to the beach. I mean I guess it is. It is walking distance, if you like
walking. I just got a text message last night from my neighbor because the house
down...I do not know what they were doing. It was like they had a rock concert in
their vacation rental. I was on O`ahu, but I would have walked down and told them
to shut it down. This is what is happening in our neighborhoods and we cannot do
anything about it because they are a nonconforming use. The idea back in 2008 was
to get all the TVRs out of non-VDA areas at some point, because we are not a resort.
Kaua`i is not a resort. We are an island with a residential community. That is what
we are going to do. We are not a resort. We will not say, "Come and raid my house. I
do not care. I will rent it out on a short-term basis." That is not what we are. That is
why we do not have housing. I am so happy I met with Representative Luke Evslin
yesterday. He supports it one hundred percent (100%). I am assuming he will be
championing this through, but this to me does not affect the owner of the property,
other than when he or she sells, the value will not be as much. But do you know what?
They have enjoyed the earnings. They have enjoyed the benefits for a long time. I
hope I can get the full support of this Council. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a legal question. When we are talking
about providing amortization and phasing out, this has to go to State, can we consider
an amendment in here that would put it in the VDAs and that there would be until
it attritions down to a certain percentage, like fifty percent (50%) or sixty
percent (60%) vacation rentals, because I actually remember when Weke Road was
for normal people? In fact, I lived in four (4) different houses before I was
thirty-three (33) years old on Weke Road. It used to be a teacher's aide, work in the
pizza place, work in retail, teach surfing. You could live on Weke Road. Basically, we
ruined our neighborhoods. It might be that it would end up being high-end. I
appreciate the work you did, by the way. In here, she has our tax, what we make. If
it ends up an empty house, and we still tax the heck out of them, you can see on the
work that you did here, how concentrated it is on the North Shore. We eviscerated
our communities. Places like Princeville and Po`ipu, the streets can be ninety-five
percent (95%). It is like living in a motel. If we can change it right here, why can we
not change it higher up? Why can we not change it in the VDA? I am looking at the
1982...I am trying to understand what happened in 1982, when we made those areas
and we did nothing to protect the community in those areas. They have become a
motel.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Back in 1982, that is what they defined
as the areas of visitor growth should happen.
Councilmember Cowden: Could we, if we wanted to? I am not saying I
am introducing an amendment, but could we, if we wanted to, stick something up
there on VDAs, so it can only go up to certain percentage, like if you have ninety-five
percent (95%) of your neighborhood is a hotel?
COUNCIL MEETING 73 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: That is in our Code?
Councilmember Cowden: Is that in our County Code?
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct. With this, we are asking the State to
change State Legislation. If you wanted to make a Code change, then that is a whole
separate issue. This is pertaining to a specific law that already exists at the State
level, a Hawai`i Revised Statute (HRS), that we want to allow this provision that will
grant us authority to amortize?
Councilmember Cowden: It mentions the VDAs up here. Is the VDA not
also at the State level?
Council Chair Rapozo: No, the County defines the VDA and the uses.
A bill like that would probably have to go back to the Planning Commission and go
through the Planning Commission process before it would come back to us.
Councilmember Cowden: A resolution like that?
Council Chair Rapozo: It would not be a resolution. It would need to
be a bill, because you are looking at amending our Code. This is not. This is asking
the State to allow us to amortize...basically, amend their State law to allow us to
amortize.
Councilmember Cowden: It is not asking us if we can amortize in a
VDA.
Council Chair Rapozo: No. I believe we have a better shot at getting
the nonconforming use passed versus a right that they already have. You can get a
TVR right now in a VDA, if you are in a VDA. You cannot do it outside the VDA. We
have dealt with this issue for so many years at the State level, and I think we have a
shot this year with Luke there. I really do. To creep into the VDA, I speculate that it
would not see the light of day.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. In our communities, it is like renting or
buying commercial space. You cannot live in residential space.
Council Chair Rapozo: Again, in a few months we will be able to
determine whether or not we want to charge these people a little more on property
tax, because that is what they are. It is a commercial operation. It is not a residential
operation. Go ahead. If you have any questions on the Resolution, I am here. If not,
we can definitely do discussion.
COUNCIL MEETING 74 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: I think it is brilliant. I think we should move
forward. The clearest part with the thing you described was, if it is a use that is
prohibited now, anyone newly trying to do it could not do it, so why are they being
allowed to do it just because they bought it from someone who was allowed to do it. I
think the argument is strong.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I am looking at it from an economic
standpoint and getting into the housing market. When you can draw revenue on a
piece of property...let us say you had a duplex. You live on one side and you rent the
other side out. You have a bed and breakfast. You have a TVR. That property
generates revenue. When you go to sell that property, it is like dangling the carrot.
The new buyer is like, "I can afford a larger mortgage, because I can get revenue off
of this property." That person now has an advantage where they can draw revenue to
pay a higher mortgage, but they still need to show revenue to apply to the bank to get
the loan. Once we do this, that extra mortgage will not be able to be applied at the
bank. Now, the price of that house will come down, and it will hit a new market of
people that we are not hitting. We have a lot of local families who can get in the
market around six hundred thousand dollars ($600,000), maybe seven hundred
thousand dollars ($700,000), but if that house sells for one million one hundred
thousand dollars ($1,100,000) because that house brings in an extra three thousand
dollars ($3,000) a month in revenue. Now, that person can qualify for the one million
one hundred thousand dollars ($1,100,000) and that house will never reach our local
target group, so I see the economics right now.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden, then
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a follow-up to that. That was definitely
true five (5) or then (10)years ago.At least where the vast majority of these properties
are, we have four-million-dollar teardowns in Hanalei. No one buys a house down
there for one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000). You cannot buy
swamp land for one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000). These are
cash purchases for eight million dollars ($8,000,000), ten million
dollars ($10,000,000), fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000), four million
dollars ($4,000,000). They are all high. I will tell you that I am supportive of this,
because for the places where I see it the most, this horse is already out of the barn.
When these properties sell, no one buys a house for eight million dollars ($8,000,000)
and then rents it for one thousand dollars ($1,000) a night or something like that.
They go to either be empty houses or they go to be lived in by people who are
extraordinarily wealthy, and maybe they are part-time, but they do not return even
to the vacation rental market, so when you have seen me be supportive of the vacation
rental market, it is because it flushes the small businesses. I will own that I had a
COUNCIL MEETING 75 JANUARY 18, 2024
small business, and so when Hanalei is a motel, instead of an empty place with
security guards, as you said, they still come out and they buy t-shirts and hats at
night and go out to dinner. These properties, as they sell, are a financial instrument.
They are even small, single-wall wooden houses and they are multi-million-dollar
houses when they sell, so I do not really worry about...they do not get mortgages for
these houses and they are in an inundation zone, so you cannot even insure them for
what they are kind of worth, so you are buying a location. I am going to support it. It
might be when I am looking...thank you for your work...the four (4) houses in
Waimea, the two (2) houses in Lihu`e, and the four (4) houses in Moloa`a, might be
affected, but it is not like the eighty-three (83) in Wainiha or the one hundred
twenty-four (124) in Hanalei. We have already missed that window. Our houses are
so crazy expensive. I am supporting it. We are not arguing. I am just adding to the
information.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes. For me, it is not about revenue. It is more
about restoring and protecting our neighborhoods that are outside of the VDA. Our
non-tourism neighborhoods, which are becoming tourism neighborhoods, because
they are illegal TVRs and whatnot popping up everywhere, or even the
nonconforming ones that exists now, which should not have been there in the first
place. The other point, too, about hopefully it is a correction of sorts to the property • ::
values. If your home is overvalued because there is a nonconforming TVR nearby that
keeps reselling for ridiculous prices, they are not being sold as a long-term rental
valued property or a regular single-family home property. They are being sold as
revenue-generating property, so it is hiking the values up. This could correct that for
those non-VDA neighborhoods, which are non-tourism neighborhoods.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am not an idiot. I realize some of the
properties on the North Shore will never be sold to a local family at an affordable
rate. When we do legislation resolutions, it is not about one (1) area. It is the whole
island. Remember, a lot of these vacation rentals are not even legal. They are
nonconforming, but they are not legally nonconforming, because they never got the
permits. They just open them up and rent them out because they can. All I am saying
is, Councilmember DeCosta, if you want to go out right now, buy a property, and have
it as a TVR, you cannot. You just cannot. You are a local resident. You might get some
money. "I will buy some property out here in a non-VDA, and I will do a TVR." No,
you cannot. It is illegal. Now, John Doe from Los Angeles (LA) or wherever comes and
buys a twelve-million-dollar property outside of the VDA, but because that person is
allowed to do it now, he can, so you "suck wind," while he can. That is the disparity.
That is what is wrong about this system that we have and our State Legislature needs
to change this so we have the authority to say, "If you sell your house, your
entitlement goes with it." That is not happening today. Do you think Coco Palms as
it sits right there is worth forty million dollars ($40,000,000), twenty-three million
COUNCIL MEETING 76 JANUARY 18, 2024
dollars ($23,000,000) or however much it is they want? That is worth garbage, but it
is the permits and the entitlements that carry the value. It is the same with these
doggone units. Allow the County to amortize, you enjoy it, while you have it you go
ahead and charge two thousand dollars ($2,000) or three thousand dollars ($3,000) a
night, have your bed and breakfast, drink mimosas in the morning, but when you
sell, that new owner now has a house, not a miniature resort.
Councilmember Kuali`i: The wording you used goes with it, but it
actually does not go with it? It does and now you just have a house.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is step 1. We need to get the State to
allow us to amortize the use. The language is broad because some counties may want
to amortize without waiting for the sale. I think Maui is looking at not even waiting
for them to sell. We will just amortize after five (5) years. This will allow you to do
that. I am not looking to do that. Give the person the use. Do we want to take away
revenue from someone who has a business? No, we do not, but when you sell that, it
is over. The new buyer is buying a house, not a business. That is how I am seeing
this. That is my intent.
Councilmember Kuali`i: That makes it clear.
Council Chair Rapozo: But who knows, I may not even be here next
year.
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to add one other thing in there to
support you. I was just down there as we were fixing `Aliomanu Road and we had a
community meeting right there at Aliomanu Road.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you for stopping the riot.
Councilmember Cowden: I was there and I did help. I tried and it was
affective. People who were the most humbug about the road repair being inconvenient
were recent purchasers of TVRs, and I just had to put it clearly to them, "If you bought
a house, whether it was on your disclosure or not, and you see the road has
cantilevered away, more than one (1) lane is missing, and pounding ocean is right
there, you got notice. If they are buying a business down there, it is not my problem.
Council Chair Rapozo: Exactly. I will put that on my t-shirt, too. "Not
my problem."
Councilmember Cowden: I do not mean any disrespect, that it was a
problem.
COUNCIL MEETING 77 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: We often reminisce about the old days, and we
almost often reminisce about some of the things we did in our communities and
neighborhoods when we were young. Do you remember running through the
dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (DDT) spray? It was killing mosquitos, while we are
sniffing the spray. That is why we are all "wacko" today. When you start thinking
about the communities that we grew up in, it is gone, and a lot of it is gone because
the communities have changed and we have replaced family homes with vacation
rentals. When you talk to Maui, O`ahu, and Hawai`i Island, they are all struggling
with the same thing. Will there be a fiscal impact to the County?Absolutely, because
they pay a lot of taxes. Like Councilmember Kuali`i said, which I agree with, it is not
about the finances. It is about keeping our communities as a community, and making
sure our children know their neighbors instead of having a new set of neighbors every
three (3) days. Some of them are not the happiest either. They spent all that money
to come here to be a grouch. Stay home. Just stay home. It is terrible. Is there any
other discussion? Go ahead.
Councilmember DeCosta: I want to challenge you and Councilmember
Kuali`i. I need to, because I have my colleague, Councilmember Kagawa. We are both
from the business mind. We say it is an economic opinion. You will now have houses
that cannot sell for that higher price in the market at a lower price, because they
cannot earn revenue from the TVR. It is a Catch-22. It is about the community, but
it is also about creating more dwellings that people in the middle class can afford.
Here is the thing. Vote for whatever it is worth. Chicken crowing, dog barking. Our
communities have lost that. We created ordinance that is conducive to the
Mainland U.S. style of living. You bring back some of those chickens in the yard, dogs
in the pen, and that old school way, trust me, that TVR and the wealthy neighbor
from LA will not want to buy in that neighborhood. Thank you. All I am saying is for
someone to think about it.
Council Chair Rapozo: We should just encourage more chickens and
dogs.
Councilmember DeCosta: Go back to farming in rural areas, raising
hunting dogs and fighting roosters, and whatnot. That way, if your neighbor is not
from here, he or she would not want to live here. End of story. Fix the problem.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have some visitors in the audience.
Councilmember DeCosta: I would like to know. Do you like chickens? Do
you like dogs?
Council Chair Rapozo: We will bring him up in a little bit. We will
wrap this up and I want to bring him up. We will get there. Let us get through this.
Go ahead, Councilmember Bulosan.
COUNCIL MEETING 78 JANUARY 18, 2024
Councilmember Bulosan: I am fully in support of this Resolution. Thank
you, Chair, for presenting it. I wish we got that done in 2008, because we could have
avoided a lot of these problems that we are facing. It could have saved a lot of families,
but it is the same thing that we have had conversations about. I am glad that we have
potential support and that it may come up in legislation. I hope our State really looks
at this as one of the top priorities that can make things change very quickly for all of
us, so I hope they do not take this lightly as we send this Resolution out to them.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: I fully support it. Let us go. We had discussion
yesterday, as far as the State level.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, we did.
Councilmember Carvalho: I think we are all good for this opportunity.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I support this one hundred percent (100%). I
think going back to the beginnings of TVRs and bed and breakfasts (B&Bs) in our
neighborhoods was a huge mistake. It is faced by the whole State of Hawai`i that
somewhere along it started, we let residentials become rentals for visitors. I think it
was a huge mistake. Whatever means we take to take away that right is something I
think I will always support. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Again, I will just say
that we need to recognize the fact that tourism is our industry. If you think we will
replace tourism with high technology (high tech) or agriculture, it will just not
happen. We are a visitor destination, and for the visitors who are here, even if we
took off all these TVRs in residential areas, there is still a lot of room for you folks.
We welcome you folks. We welcome everyone here. I do not think it will have an
impact on our visitor industry. With that, roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-04 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
COUNCIL MEETING 79 JANUARY 18, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, we will break for lunch. We have
an Executive Session that we need to go into.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Like we do with our certificates, we will take
a recess, and we will invite my good friend Dickie Chang up here and his good friend.
I know you folks are wondering who he is. Maybe some of you recognize him. I do not,
because he is usually wearing a football helmet. Please keep the camera rolling. We
will break for lunch and we will be back.
Councilmember DeCosta: I would like to say something.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember DeCosta: Who was using a football helmet?
Council Chair Rapozo: We will talk about it.
Councilmember DeCosta: I know that, but I have an intuition right. I
want to say I saw this person on television (TV) with a helmet. I wanted to say that
before I try to take credit after you make it apparent. I know it is not Dickie. I think
it is this person. Am I right?
Council Chair Rapozo: Dickie wears a crash helmet. With that, we
will break for lunch and we will resume in Executive Session, after the Clerk reads
us into Executive Session. Hold on. We need to do this.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-1114 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session to provide a briefing and request for
settlement authority in the case of Paul Applegate vs. County of Kaua`i, et al., Case
No. CV21-00364 (United States District Court for the District of Hawai`i), and related
matters. This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties,
privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate
to this agenda item.
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as not present.)
ES-1115 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), on behalf of the Council, the
Office of the County Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council to
COUNCIL MEETING 80 JANUARY 18, 2024
provide the Council with a briefing, discussion, and consultation regarding the
Quarterly Report on Pending and Denied Claims. This briefing and consultation
involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities
of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
ES-1116 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session to deliberate and decide on Chief of Police,
Todd Raybuck's request for reimbursement of attorneys' fees from Applegate vs.
County of Kaua`i et al., Case No. CV21-00364. This briefing and consultation involves
consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the
Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-1114,
ES-1115, and ES-1116, seconded by Councilmember Bulosan.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none, roll call.
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as present.)
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-1114, ES-1115, and
ES-1116 was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, we will break for lunch and
convene in the Executive Session Chambers at 1:30 p.m. We have our Special
Emergency Council Meeting that will occur at 2:00 p.m., or shortly thereafter. With
that, we will break for lunch, but keep the camera rolling.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:17 p.m., to convene in
Executive Session.
COUNCIL MEETING 81 JANUARY 18, 2024
The meeting reconvened at 2:13 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Bracken, if you could.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MATTHEW M. BRACKEN, County Attorney: Matt Bracken, County
Attorney. In regard to ES-1114 and ES-1116, these are both Executive Sessions
related to the pending lawsuit. Discussions regarding that pending lawsuit must
remain confidential through the County's interest. ES-1115 was a discussion about
pending claims. Those discussions must also remain confidential. If and when claims
are approved, they are put on the Open Session of the Council's agenda, like earlier
today, and they are available at that time for the public. Thank you.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any questions for the attorney? If
not, thank you very much. With that, our Council meeting is adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 2:14 p.m.
Re .ec fully submitted,
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
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