HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/27/2024 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
MARCH 27, 2024
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kauai, on Wednesday, March 27, 2024, at 8:53 a.m., after which the following
Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Addison Bulosan
Honorable Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr.
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Bill DeCosta
Honorable Ross Kagawa (Excused at 3:03 p.m.)
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Mel Rapozo
(Note: No one from the public testified on any agenda item via oral testimony
via the Zoom remote technology platform.)
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the agenda, as circulated, was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
February 28, 2024 Council Meeting
March 7, 2024 Special Council Meeting
March 13, 2024 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2912
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve the Minutes, as circulated, seconded
by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone wishing to testify
or provide testimony?Anyone in the audience?
COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 27, 2024
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to approve the Minutes, as circulated, was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carries. Clerk, our next item, please.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2024-62 Communication (02/29/2024) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the County of Kaua`i 2024 Real Property
Assessment List pursuant to Section 5A-2.2, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended.
C 2024-63 Communication (03/14/2024) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, supplemental real property tax revenue
information pertaining to the estimated reduction in real property tax revenues
resulting from the Home Preservation Tax Limitation and Very Low Income Tax Credit
relief measures which have been factored in with the existing real property tax rates,
and based on the certified Real Property Assessment List for Fiscal Year 2025.
C 2024-64 Communication (03/15/2024) from the Housing Director,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Authorizing The Mayor And The
Director Of Finance Of The County Of Kaua`i To Enter Into An Intergovernmental
Agreement With The State Of Hawai`i And Department Of Health For A Loan From
The State Water Pollution Control Revolving Fund For The Residential Cesspool
Conversion Program (County Of Kaua`i Residential Cesspool Conversion Program 1),
Project No. RCCOOKA-01.
C 2024-65 Communication (03/19/2024) from the Director of Human
Resources,transmitting for Council information, the March 15, 2024 Human Resources
Report (Vacancy Report and Recruitment Status Report), pursuant to Section 24 of
Ordinance No. B-2023-891, relating to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i for
Fiscal Year 2023-2024.
C 2024-66 Communication (03/20/2024) from Council Chair Rapozo,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Repealing Resolution No. 2023-02
And Amending Resolution No. 2023-26 Relating To Adopting The Rules Of The Kaua`i
County Council For The Organization Of Committees And The Transaction Of
Business, amending Rule No. 13, Relating to Order and Decorum.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-62, C 2024-63, C 2024-64,
C 2024-65, and C 2024-66 for the record, seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 27, 2024
The motion to receive C 2024-62, C 2024-63, C 2024-64, C 2024-65, and
C 2024-66 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2024-67 Communication (02/26/2024) from the Chief of Police, Acting
Assistant Chief Paul N. Applegate, Acting Captain Kennison L. Nagahisa, and
Lieutenant Christian D. Jenkins, requesting Council approval to accept the terms
contained in the Avis Rent a Car System, LLC, Terms & Conditions regarding Section
3.2 Indemnification. The Kaua`i Police Department, Investigative Services Bureau
seeks to engage in a lease rental of two(2)vehicles, intended for short-term rental leases
spanning one (1) year, providing the flexibility to switch vehicles as necessary,
enhancing operational efficiency without the constraints of a traditional lease.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-67, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: I see you folks are here, I will suspend the
rules, if you want to provide the Council with an overview.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KENNISON L. NAGAHISA, Acting Captain: Good morning, Councilmembers,
Council Chair Rapozo, Council Vice Chair Kuali`i. Thank you for placing this item on
the Council agenda for consideration. We are seeking approval of the indemnification
portion. Sorry, for the record, Acting Captain Nagahisa, Kaua`i Police
Department (KPD), Investigative Services Bureau. As I was saying, we are seeking
approval for the indemnification portion, the Avis Rental Car Systems, LLC, Terms &
Conditions. This would allow us to rent vehicles for our operations and give us the
flexibility to change out vehicles as needed for our operations without the restrictions
of a traditional fleet.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you. I know we had trouble getting our
fleet replaced...I am supportive of this, we are tight on vehicles, but what are these
vehicles going to be used for?
Mr. Nagahisa: They will be used for the ISB operations.
Councilmember Cowden: The what?
Mr. Nagahisa: Our Investigative Services Bureau operations.
Councilmember Cowden: Do they have the blue bar on top of it?
COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 27, 2024
Mr. Nagahisa: No. It is basically surveillance vehicles. If you
would like more details, we can go into Executive Session.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, that is good enough.
Mr. Nagahisa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: This is an unusual request. Is this done on the
other islands?
Mr. Nagahisa: I am not sure.This is our first time doing it. We
feel that this will give us more flexibility, like I said to change out vehicles. In the past
we used asset forfeiture vehicles, but they require maintenance, and this will cutdown
on maintenance. It is a short-term, one-year rental lease. We could not find it with
dealerships, so we had to go to a rental car agency.
Councilmember Kagawa: Is the root of this request the fact that we are
having difficulty maintaining county vehicles right now?
Mr. Nagahisa: Correct, we had to change out some vehicles,
we had to rotate some vehicles out. We felt this was the best option for our operations.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Using rental vehicles is not new, right? This
just allows you the flexibility because now you have those vehicles for one-year.
Mr. Nagahisa: Correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: Therefore, if an operation comes up, if there is
a surveillance or whatever the case may be, some investigative operation, now you can
just...if you need a new car, you can just swap them out. You do not need to go through
the entire rental car process.
Mr. Nagahisa: Correct, even a different type vehicle can be
switched out.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right, perfect. Thank you. Are there any
further questions? If not, thank you.
Mr. Nagahisa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Most people want to jump out of that seat, you
folks are hanging out. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 27, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion?
The motion to approve C 2024-67 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-68 Communication (02/27/2024) from Councilmember Kagawa,
transmitting for Council consideration, A Bill For An Ordinance Amending
Sections 5A-1.1 And 5A-11.4, Kaua`i County Code 1987, As Amended, Relating To Real
Property Tax.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-68 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: The Proposed Draft Bill will be coming up
later,but if there is anyone who wants to testify at this time,we will take your testimony
on the communication.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is to receive. Is there any
discussion?
The motion to receive C 2024-68 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-69 Communication (03/05/2024) from Council Chair Rapozo and
Councilmember DeCosta, transmitting for Council consideration, A Bill For An
Ordinance Amending Chapter 8, Kaua`i County Code 1987, As Amended, Relating To
The Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance, Including Matters Pertaining To Guest Houses.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-69 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Again, this is the communication for a bill that
will be coming up later. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KURT BOSSHARD: Good morning, Council. Kurt Bosshard, for the
record. I guess you know if you put "guest houses" on a docket, that I will show up and
be supportive of this. But I think we need to go back even further on the housing issue
and consider how history has not taught us the error of our ways in terms of...we are
behind the eightball on the situation. Although there are helpful modifications of the
zoning in Planning, they have not proven to be effective. I compare it to fishing with my
friend where you drop stone, you got the opelu wrapped around the rock, and you go
COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 27, 2024
down however many (inaudible) to catch fish. Once you catch fish, you want to stay at
that level, but the fish are going down, but you are so slow at going down to catch them
that you miss the school, and they go down too far. If we keep staying at that same
method of trying to encourage housing and it is not happening, and we are running out
of gas on this. I would like to start with the General Plan, and Mayor Carvalho was kind
enough to allow me to sit on the Advisory Committee on that, I attended many meetings.
My comments at that time was centered around, "Well, everything is going to be in
Lihu`e," well, that is fine. We all want that to happen in Lihu`e, central and all that,
but do we have water? I was assured repeatedly, of course, that there was going to be
water, and there was no water. Where are we on that? Nowhere. Now, I want to talk
about the maps that show five to ten-minute walking distances. I can assure you that
is for special zoning and again, encouraging infill where we do not have the
infrastructure or the size of the lots or the people that are giving up their land for it,
whatever it is. I do not know who's walking that was, the ten (10) minutes, but I can
walk twice as far on the ten (10) minutes of whoever was walking. It is arbitrary on
where we are putting these things, and it does not work. I can demonstrate that. If
anyone ever wants to talk to me, ask me questions, or whatever, I can give ten (10)
examples of these things that I am talking about just from my own personal experience,
so you can imagine what other people are running into when they run into people who
want to limit housing or county and state agencies that are letting you down. You will
not know until you apply for the permits where the hold-up is going to be. There is this
many legs on the octopus of getting caught, whether it is water, fire department,
highway, drainage, you name it. There are twenty (20) places and so you are not
matching your infrastructure with your...
Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on, real quick. Is there anyone else in the
audience who wants to testify on this? If not, Kurt, you can continue on with your
second three (3) minutes.
Mr. Bosshard: I have written you many times about this and
there is an acceleration of the problem, particularly because of COVID, cost of building,
regulations, and it is a snowballing the effect. There is also no land zoning for it. Your
Housing Agency, I do not know who they are working with, whatever; they do a lot of
low-income things, more power to them. I am all for that. But what is other than that?
There is no outreach. The Housing Ordinance itself is just a rewrite of the old Housing
Ordinance with the same impediments that you had before. You went to all this extent
to rewrite this thing in 2019, and you got nothing. What are you going to do? You are
going to listen to the public or are you going to listen to the agencies that are not talking
together and are not communicating or getting together. For example, comprehensively
putting together a map of where infrastructure lies, like water, drainage, and targeting
areas where you want things to happen on, and talking to homeowners, et cetera. It is
so bureaucratic that the consequences are devasting to people who are trying to do even
the smallest projects. Single-family residence, a guesthouse, the guesthouse, they are
saying it is a full-on resident, so if there is a water moratorium in your area, which is
quite considerable in these areas, you cannot build a guesthouse. Same with the
Additional Rental Units (ARUs). You do not learn these things until you apply for the
permits. You think you got something and you do not have it. When you ask for data
from the Housing Agency, "Oh, I do not have to give it to you;"the Department of Water,
I asked for a map of where the moratorium areas are, I do not think they have one. They
1
COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 27, 2024
did not respond, or they responded, "They would get back to me," I should say...but
whatever. And I do not think you know it. What are you going to do with the agencies?
Maybe well intentioned, some, some may not be.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Bosshard: Are there any questions for me?
Councilmember Cowden: I have.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: Are you running into issues of insurance
because I know insurance is really coming forward as another barrier? Have you
experienced that because that is one (1) more leg on the octopus.
Mr. Bosshard: I have said that testifying before that...and I
have affordable rentals, that all of these costs like the insurance or the availability are
things that are impediments. Yes, I have been notified about insurance and getting it
in a commercial sense, and Lahaina is going to accelerate that problem. When you see
the Housing Ordinance, it requires you to rent for forty (40) years at a certain rate or
fifty (50) years, whatever it is. Your cost to maintain those structures are going to go
up like this, we just saw it, or maybe even tripling, but the average income thing is not
going to go up, very incrementally, very small, so why would anyone go into a forty-year
commitment? They have to change the roof of their buildings, they have to do this and
that, why would anyone do that when the increase in rent is only going to be very
modest? There are all these things that until you get there you do not know, and I tried
to share that with you, and I hope you are interested. I wrote many times about this,
and most recently, about this bill.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Talking about legs on the octopus, have you
looked at the leg that has caused the cost of building a house, just the house alone, a
simple one thousand two hundred (1,200) square foot house going at three hundred
eighty dollars ($380) per square foot. I did the multiplication, at four hundred fifty-six
thousand dollars ($456,000) just to build a simple one thousand two hundred (1,200)
square foot house.
Mr. Bosshard: I have a lot of experience.
Councilmember Kagawa: Where is the blame on that, when you can get
a two-story with a pool in Henderson, Las Vegas. I like to blame government, "What
are you doing for affordable," but that is a big problem that you can get a two-story
house in Henderson, Las Vegas, and here, it will build you the simplest one thousand
two hundred (1,200) square foot house that you can think of.
COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 27, 2024
Mr. Bosshard: Yes, I am in the process of building houses, and
I would say it starts with things that are not the blame of government, necessarily,
except things like the Jones Act and the Shipping Act, right there, that is a no-brainer.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, exactly.
Mr. Bosshard: And then you certainly have fees and
assessments all along the way from start to finish, the excise tax being a problem. There
are some of these things that are already there. Then you add on environmental issues,
regulations, Fire Code, permitting, difficulties, delays, insurance, it has been so
magnified by COVID, now you cannot find workers. The wages are going up, which is
a good thing, I guess, depending on if you are trying to build a house. Try to find
someone to work and there are so many things, Councilmember Kagawa, the concrete
is three hundred dollars ($300) a yard now, and it was less than one hundred dollars
($100) when we first...
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Kagawa: I mean, you answered correctly for me. I just
wanted to make it known that we have a lot of policy issues, but that building cost is a
huge problem that somehow that thing got so messed up where we are paying more
because of...I blame it most on shipping.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Can you give an example of data that you
requested and cannot get?
Mr. Bosshard: The number of ARUs that have been built,
guest houses, all the...I am interested in property that is already zoned Residential use,
non-Resort, because we knew in the General Plan that only zoning that was Residential
was in the Resort area was Kukui`ula, Princeville, so we knew that this was coming
back then, that this was all going to come to a head.Anything to do with non-Residential
housing. I wanted to see whether the Housing Ordinance is a success. Do they interact
with you, to say, "We have these results, we are not satisfied with what we have written
here, times have changed, the cost has doubled, we want you to do more guesthouses,
without interacting with builders and listening to them?"
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, I think we are done. Are there any
further questions? If not, thank you. I appreciate you spending time with us.
Mr. Bosshard: I appreciate you doing what you are doing.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to
testify? Your testimony will be transferred over to Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2919).
Councilmember Kagawa: I have a question.
Council Chair Rapozo: For who?
COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kagawa: The makers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further testimony? If not, we will
call the meeting back to order.
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Kagawa: Is this Bill from the Administration or from the
Council?
Council Chair Rapozo: No, this is from Councilmember DeCosta and I.
I think Mr. Bosshard brings up a lot of good points, as you, with costs, but there is
idealistic goals and idealistic thinking and realistic thinking, and Mr. Bosshard hit it
on the head when he talked about trying to get everything built in one (1) area that does
not have the infrastructure, that is crazy, right? I know there is a lot of people that do
not support adding dwellings on agriculture (Ag) units, but I am assuming you all know
families that have generational lands throughout the island who are at risk of having
to sell because they cannot do anything with the land. Councilmember DeCosta and I
met with the Planning Department, and this was the best compromise that we could
get that they would be supportive of. Planning Director Hull is not here, he is not
available today, but he will be present at the Committee Meeting. This will be an
opportunity for our agricultural lot owners to be able to put up a guest home, and these
are small units. Obviously, the concern is that they are just going to make vacation
rentals, well, vacation rentals are illegal, and it is going to require enforcement. At the
end of the day, it will allow our generational families to possibly put up an additional
unit so that they can have their family live in their homes. That was the intent.
Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Councilmember DeCosta, you are constantly
commenting on this about not being able to put extra homes on your own property, and
he has Ag property, so this will allow him to put an extra home on his property?
Council Chair Rapozo: It will allow anyone that has the ability, that
has density will be able to add one (1) more unit.
Councilmember Cowden: I do not know if your land is Condominium
Property Regime (CPR), but would he have the density? I am getting this question
about CPR'd lots and usually in CPR there are five (5) units and one (1) guest house,
would it be adding more guest houses to the other units?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, because that is a really important
question.
Council Chair Rapozo: The real important thing, though, is when this
guest house is added to a Condominium Property Regime (CPR) unit and that CPR unit
has the density of one (1)property, they will be able to add a guest house, but that guest
COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 27, 2024
house will be attached to the initial density. Therefore, they cannot get a CPR and then
sell off the guest house unit, that remains with the entitled dwelling. Yes, they can sell
the CPR parcel, but it will be with the two (2) units, they cannot split that.
Councilmember Cowden: And it will not take away a density parcel on
an adjacent lot that has yet to build.
Council Chair Rapozo: No.
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to share, because I am concerned
about the insurance. I have been learning about that and I am hoping to have a briefing
coming up soon. I think on Ag properties, it will not be a problem, but what I was told
when I researched it, is when we are doing density in a built environment, like down
the street here in a "city" area, like in Lihu`e, if you put four (4) houses right together
and you are next to four (4) houses right together, you might not be able to get fire
insurance. That is what I have been learning.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, well this is specially for agricultural
properties and not Urban.
Councilmember Cowden: It says, "R-1, R-2,"and all the other ones, right?
Am I on the wrong bill? Okay, nineteen (19) is the R-1, R-6, R-10.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is for Ag.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, this one is just for Ag, so my other
comment will be appropriate for Bill No. 2919.
Council Chair Rapozo: The Fire Department will obviously have a say
in the approval of these developments. That is always a concern now since Lahaina
had homes close to one another.
Councilmember Cowden: I am building on what the testifier was saying
is that you do not even know you are going to run into it, so having not called the
insurance, because my house is probably one that is probably affected and just looking
at, "what is anticipated to be affected," so the Fire Department might not even know. It
goes by carrier by carrier, insurance carrier. People, even if they are listening should
find out from your insurance carrier if you have a problem (inaudible). Insurance
companies are dropping previously insured properties.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I think that is an issue for the homeowner
before you build anything, you check with your insurance. That is not something the
Council should worry about. What I wanted to thank you folks for is for this bill. Every
longtime Ag farmer that I know that is not a big landowner has at some point mentioned
that it would be nice to add more flexibility to add houses for families. That is one way
they looked at to keep their family on Kaua`i and living here. I thank you folks for this
bill. We have been waiting. We are"housing crisis,"yes, but we have always been with
COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 27, 2024
a mindset of previous councils to protect Ag. Instead of growing people, we grow
vegetables and food. When you look at our longtime farmers, those are not rich people.
They are hardworking middle class people, and not allowing them to have flexibility to
have family live on property and continue farming is absurd at this time with the prices
of everything. Where are growing families going to live when the prices for materials
of a simple house is five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000). We need to take these
steps; it is long overdue. I am supportive. I hope that people who do not have Ag will
take this opportunity to chime in because we do want to make sure that even though
we have strong feelings, that we have the entire community chime in on this issue. It
will help us come up with the best decision. Maybe there will be some safeguards for
rich people who always bought their Ag property with the intention of just living and
growing a coconut tree. This is a great idea, great movement forward, and it is long
overdue.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think long overdue is...at this point, I think
what Mr. Bosshard said is so true. How successful have our housing policies been?We
have done a lot in the way of low-income, but the middle class have nothing, zero. This
bill is not intended to create affordable housing on Ag lands, I would hope a lot of these
generational families are going to build these structures to put their families on. At the
end of the day, there are really not many programs out there for the middle class. I am
looking at homes right now, two-bedroom sells for seven hundred sixty thousand
dollars ($760,000) and these are homes like mine that I live in now—redwood, single
wall, and selling for seven hundred thousand dollars ($700,000), which is insane. This
is just one-step. This Council needs to take a look at taking matters in our own hands
and not waiting for the Housing Agency, not waiting for the Administration to come
across with projects, because these are low-hanging fruit, but I can tell you that there
are people who disagree. They do not believe we should have any Residential density on
Ag, Councilmember Kagawa, you mentioned it, you have these folks who plant trees
and get an Ag dedication. We are working on a scope of an audit right now that will
audit the Ag dedications that we granted, because there are many people on this island
with Ag dedications that should not have it. There is no agricultural operation or
product. I am hoping that audit can come on the floor shortly, and I am hoping we can
get your support. At the end of the day, we have to provide as many resources we can
for our people to put up houses for our middle class families.
Councilmember Kagawa: The definition of Ag—seasonally growing
rambutan and selling a few in a bag, does not make you a typical farmer. Again, we
have to get the numbers to justify whether you are truly an Ag farmer or not, or if you
are just a residential farmer like me; I have a few vegetables, but I know I am not an
Ag farmer.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Kuali`i: We are still just on the communication, right?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, this is only the communication.
The motion to receive C 2024-69 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 27, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-70 Communication (03/07/2024) from the Chief of Police and Assistant
Chief of Police Mark T. Ozaki, requesting Council approval to accept and expend
Federal funds, in the amount of $7,139.00, from the United States Department of
Justice, Bureau of Justice Assistance, Bulletproof Vest Partnership Grant, to replace
bulletproof vests for officer safety. The grant program has a local match amount of 50%
from the Kaua`i Police Department (Account No. 001-1003-551.65-00, Collective
Bargaining) for the acquisition of the bulletproof (protective) vests and related
accessories to be utilized by the officers of the Kaua`i Police Department.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-70, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Councilmember Cowden: I have a question.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MARK T. OZAKI, Assistant Chief of Police: Good morning, Councilmembers.
Assistant Chief of Police Mark Ozaki, Kaua`i Police Department.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you. Full disclosure, I am a mother of a
police officer. Earlier this year we had a person who did a shooting with an automatic
weapon, I forgot his name. We looked for him for like a week or two, and we brought
over the federal marshals. My understanding was that part of that had to do...I did not
learn this from my son, but part of why we did that was our bullet proof vests were not
appropriate for the bullets he had. Is that correct?
Mr. Ozaki: Just for correction, it was not automatic, but it
was semi-automatic.
Councilmember Cowden: Somehow, we did not have the right bullet
proof vests, did I learn that correctly?
Mr. Ozaki: No. A bulletproof vest does not stop every
single type of bullet. There are some with certain restrictions and certain limitations.
Our bulletproof vests stop a lot of types of firearms, it stops the types of firearms that
we carry, in case someone takes our firearms. We also purchase or look at purchasing
supplemental carriers or trauma plates to put in the carriers, but this is not what this
is.
Councilmember Cowden: Will this new vest be better than what we have
and how many are we buying?
Mr. Ozaki: This is a recurring grant.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 27, 2024
Mr. Ozaki: I have been in the Administrative Technical
Bureau since 2016 and that is when it started with purchasing and contracts, so we
have been doing this recurring grant from then. It is just basically supplemental
funding. It is supplemental to what we already purchased. This is a federal grant.
Councilmember Cowden: So, we are not buying new vests?
Mr. Ozaki: We buy new vests every year.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I would like good vests.
Mr. Ozaki: Absolutely.
Councilmember Cowden: Because I tried to buy a good vest as a
Christmas present and I could not find those vests anywhere, they were all sold out.
Mr. Ozaki: We have a replacement plan with our vests, so
we are not trying to go to Council and buy one hundred sixty (160) vests every year, we
have a replacement plan, so we buy and budget for a certain number of vests, and we
anticipate how many vests we need.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to make sure that when we are buying
them, we are buying appropriate protection.
Mr. Ozaki: We do buy quality vests and we tests them
against other companies and brands, they shoot it up, and we do work for the
government, and we go out for bid, but it does not mean that three (3) companies can
bid on the same type of vest. Again, it is not a "catch all" guarantee it will stop every
single bullet, but it is quality type of vests. We understand there are times when there
might be a higher risk type of firearm we are facing and if we have a chance to have an
unknown, that we are looking at purchasing supplemented equipment for officers,
which is trauma plates, higher caliber rounds.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any further questions? If not, thank
you. Is there any discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-70 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-71 Communication(03/07/2024)from the County Engineer, requesting
Council approval to purchase unbudgeted equipment of a Flygt Submersible Pump, as
an unanticipated mechanical failure of an existing pump at the Wailua Wastewater
Treatment Plant has resulted in a loss of redundancy, needed to ensure that the proper
COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 27, 2024
flows can continue going through the plant treatment process, at a cost of approximately
$31,000.00.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-71, seconded by
Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Councilmember Cowden: I have a question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. This was covered when we had the CIP
update.
Councilmember Cowden: Oh, okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. This just shows how this old plant...
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
DONN KAKUDA, Civil Engineer: Donn Kakuda, Civil Engineer.
Councilmember Cowden: I was going to say I thought we just talked
about this. Is this the same one that we were talking about, or did we fix something and
another thing broke?
Mr. Kakuda: This one is for our aeration basin and...we are
buying this to...it is cheaper than a replacement, because we are just trying to make it
last until we do the fix.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, so what we talked about the last time,
this is a temporary thing for what we talked about? We did just talk about buying this,
so is this the same piece of equipment?
Mr. Kakuda: No, it is not. It is different. This one is...okay,
so we are working on the design...
Council Chair Rapozo: The last discussion was about the Revolving
Fund. That was about the millions of millions...
Mr. Kakuda: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: When you were here for CIP, you folks talked
about the emergency repairs that...
Mr. Kakuda: Okay, you folks approved the first part, right?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Mr. Kakuda: The second part of the plan will address this
part, but we never finished the design yet for this second part. The thing is we do not
COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 27, 2024
want to buy the exact...because with the design, we are discussing changing the
hydraulics, so maybe in the future we will not need a pump over there. We are trying
to do something cheaper to last us until we finish the design and then if we change the
tanks, then we do not need pumps, it will go gravity instead. That is the plan.
Councilmember Cowden: I see in here that we are unanticipated
mechanical failure and unbudgeted equipment, and so since we just talked about it, I
was thinking maybe this is another thing, so it sounds like somewhere in between?
Mr. Kakuda: Kind of. We are trying to get to a point where
we finish design and then we do the big fix. We do not want to spend more money than
we have to, to get us to that point.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there further questions? If not, thank you.
Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Is there discussion?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-71 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-72 Communication(03/08/2024)from the County Engineer, requesting
Council approval to purchase unbudgeted equipment of an Aurora Series Effluent
Pump, at an estimated cost of $52,000.00. This pump would convey effluent to the
Wailua Golf Course for irrigation purposes, due to an unanticipated mechanical failure
of an existing effluent pump at the Wailua Wastewater Treatment Plant.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-72, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: Same explanation, right?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Kakuda: This one going be like the third phase of the fix.
The ones we talked about are just for the plant. We have to make sure the line to the
golf course is good, so we are working on the design for that to fix the line and to make
sure that these pumps will pump there. Right now, we replaced the other one about a
year and one half ago. This one is broken, and so we only have one (1) pump that can
pump to the golf course, so we want to buy this one and this will be a redundancy if
needed.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Does that mean we are not able to pump as
much as we should be pumping to the course?
COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 27, 2024
Mr. Kakuda: One can handle. It is just that if it breaks, we
cannot pump to the golf course at all. If the one we have now breaks, we cannot send
water to the golf course at all.
Councilmember Kagawa: Oh.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a follow-up. I was in that pumphouse
about three (3) or four (4) months ago.
Mr. Kakuda: Okay.
Councilmember Cowden: Was it broken then?
Mr. Kakuda: ...
Councilmember Cowden: I know there was a leaky fixture there, just a
little bit leaking, so was it...
Mr. Kakuda: You came to the Wailua Treatment Plant over
four (4) months ago?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Mr. Kakuda: Okay.
Councilmember Cowden: Not the Wailua Treatment Plant, the
pumphouse on the Wailua Golf Course.
Mr. Kakuda: That is the Department of Parks &
Recreation's one, so if theirs is broken, they have to fix it. Our pump is at the plant.
We pump it to their pond and from the pond, Department of Parks & Recreation picks
it up and they pump it from theirs.
Councilmember Cowden: That one is aged too.
Mr. Kakuda: I know they have a project, but I am not
familiar with it.
Councilmember Cowden: It was repainted, looks well-painted, okay, so it
is not that one?
Mr. Kakuda: No. The one we are talking about is at the
Plant.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there further questions? Seeing none,
thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Is there any discussion?
COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 27, 2024
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-72 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-73 Communication (03/08/2024) from the Executive on
Transportation, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, expend, and
indemnify the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) for Section 5339 formula grant in
the amount of$2,662,040.00 for ten(10) diesel/gas buses, and FTA Section 5311 formula
grant in the amount of$1,334,862.00 for five (5) diesel/gas buses, which are soon to be
beyond their useful lives, to be used to fund eighty percent (80%) of the purchase cost,
and twenty percent (20%) from the Transportation Agency's Fiscal Year 2025 budget
request.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-73, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
CELIA M. MAHIKOA, Executive on Transportation: Good morning,
Councilmembers, Council Chair. Celia Mahikoa, Executive on Transportation.
Council Chair Rapozo: We received your request and maybe just share
a little bit about what the plan is.
Ms. Mahikoa: Thank you for this opportunity. This request
for today is to assist us with our ongoing replacement of our existing operating fleet. We
have sixty(60)vehicles within our fleet and in order to maintain consistent safe service,
we need to regularly have them replaced and stay advanced in the mileage that is on
each of them. Within the federal regulations, the useful life is defined at one hundred
fifty thousand (150,000) miles, or five (5) years of use. We do our best to keep them
within a four-year rotation and within four (4) years they are up over two hundred fifty
thousand(250,000) miles. We are able to get use out of those vehicles with our mechanic
team, and some excellent maintenance attention on our vehicles. Ideally, we like to be
able to replace fifteen (15) per year, and we have been provided formula funds through
Federal Transit Administration (FTA)to facilitate that. That is with that, of which they
will cover eighty percent (80%) of the cost of the replacement vehicles. These are to
keep existing services for the community growing at the levels they are at. Additionally,
we do have the electric bus project, but that is taking place in addition to the need to
keep the existing service going. That is why these are noted as gas diesel replacements
at this time.
Council Chair Rapozo: We did receive Ruta Jordans from Zero Waste,
and she is asking why not electric?
Ms. Mahikoa: Right. Simply because we are in the middle of
procuring electric buses. It is just that the first four (4) that we are purchasing through
COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 27, 2024
the Statewide procurement that we are taking part in, we are going to be placed on the
schedule. We entered into the contract several months ago, but because there is a
backlog on the ordering and the manufacturing, and the providing of these vehicles, we
anticipate we will not have those first four (4) buses available until probably about a
year and one half to two (2)years. I am thinking it is about what it would take from this
point to get us there. With that, meanwhile in order to keep service going and replacing
our existing vehicles that are going beyond their useful lives, we are needing to keep up
with the vehicles that we are able to procure, which is the gas diesel ones.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for doing this. I learned something
from Council Chair Rapozo when he first took his position and to be cautious whenever
it says, "Apply for, receive, expend, and indemnify," so then we are basically saying,
"Yes,"to the entire process with no place to intervene or ask questions. Are the size and
shapes of these buses the same size of what we already have, so we will not worry about
not having garage space, like what presented itself of the electric buses, right?
Ms. Mahikoa: That is correct. These are replacing what we
have with very similar sizes and designs.
Councilmember Cowden: They are going to sit in the garage, I know we
had three (3) smaller buses that somehow had something wrong with them, so we do
not use them as intended. They have the lifts for handicapped, but we used them for
something else, we found some other way, but are we sure that these designs,
everything about it is just going to move right in into the new...
Ms. Mahikoa: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Ms. Mahikoa: As well as we can, scope within the
procurement is going to be following the lines of the same procurement process, similar
scope of work or of design for the existing vehicles we have.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Thank you. I have a question for you,
but I can wait.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are we still not offering the Sunday service?
Are we still having an issue? I do not want to get into a huge discussion, but I am
curious, I was just asked that question recently.
Ms. Mahikoa: Sadly, we are still at "No Sunday Service" and
until we are able to get an additional number of bus drivers full-time...
Council Chair Rapozo: So, it is not buses, it is people.
COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 27, 2024
Ms. Mahikoa: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Drivers.
Ms. Mahikoa: Right. The staffing. Sadly.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: When we retired out these fifteen (15), do they
sit in a secondary use? If we have an accident or something happens to a bus, do we
have a backup bus? How do we "retire" out the fifteen (15)buses, because they are a lot
to store if they are beyond their life?
Ms. Mahikoa: We are required to dispose of them in line with
the county's regulations and therefore we go through the formal disposal process, which
has them placed at a holding lot until the annual auction takes place.
Councilmember Cowden: So, they might get sold on-island? How many
spares do we keep? How many spare buses do we have?
Ms. Mahikoa: Spares are typically held within twenty
percent (20%)of our fleet, so that we will have...is that twelve (12), I believe, that would
typically be there to serve for that purpose.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any further questions for the
Transportation Agency? If not, thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Seeing none, Councilmember Cowden.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: I really appreciated the learning experience
that I got from you, Council Chair Rapozo, about why are not supposed to approve
"Apply for, receive, expend, and indemnify," all four (4) steps. We are confident in this
case to have no problems since it is just a repetition of what is already in place.
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. And then I have a comment.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: I appreciated Ms. Jordans letter and I am
willing to experiment with these electric buses. I was not excited about them because
as we are learning we are having to mine the deep seed and be able to get these
batteries, that there is so much consequence for what it takes to create electric systems.
It is very difficult to recycle the batteries, and what we have learned in the last year or
COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 27, 2024
two (2), is that lithium batteries mixed with salt water are more likely to catch fire. I
just want to state for the record that I am happy that we are replacing some diesel and
gas buses, because that is the direction that I actually am more confident in. I would
rather wait until there is different technology than the electric.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion?
The motion to approve C 2024-73 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-74 Communication (03/11/2024) from Council Chair Rapozo and
Councilmember DeCosta, transmitting for Council consideration, A Bill For An
Ordinance Amending Chapter 5, Article 2, Section 5-2.6 Kaua`i County Code 1987, As
Amended, Relating To Beautification Fees, to offset the tourism-related impacts of
rental or U-drive motor vehicles by standardizing the beautification fee assessed to all
motor vehicles in the County at five dollars ($5) per certificate of registration.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-74 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? This is the communication; the Proposed Draft Bill will be coming up later.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is to receive. Is there any
discussion?
The motion to receive C 2024-74 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
C 2024-75 Communication (03/15/2024) from the Mayor, transmitting his
Fiscal Year 2024-2025 Budget Message, along with the proposed Operating Budget,
Capital Improvement Projects (CIP) Budget, and Schedule of Charges and Fees.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2024-75 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
This is the submission of the budget, which we will start our budget reviews tomorrow
morning.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 27, 2024
JEFF LINDNER: Jeff Lindner. There was just one (1) thing in
the letter from the mayor stating that they were not going to reduce the owner-occupied
tax rate. I thought that was your call. That is not the mayor's call. Anyway, that is all
I got.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Thank you. When we start discussing it, it
will be our call, you are correct. Is there anyone else?
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? There will be some
proposals that will reduce property tax rates for owner-occupied. Obviously, we are
required to have a balanced budget, so when we reduce somewhere, we must cut
somewhere else or increase revenue somewhere else. Tomorrow we will start the
process and then over the last two (2)years, owner-occupied with the three percent(3%)
cap, because of the incredible rise in assessments did not mean much, in fact, they paid
more taxes. I am hoping that we will be able to get that equalized in the tax rate.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It is actually both of our calls, the Council and
the mayor, and ultimately we can go through the entire budget process and the council
majority of four (4), if it is in disagreement with what the mayor is wanting, is not
enough. So, it would take a super majority of five (5) to do something different from
what the mayor is proposing. Just to be clear. There could be a veto and it will take
five (5) or more to override any veto.
Council Chair Rapozo: The Administration's proposal on tax rates did
show an increase in the transient vacation rentals (TVR) rate, which I hoped had a
corresponding decrease in the owner-occupied rate, so that will be our call. Is there any
further discussion? Go ahead, Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just saw Maui's budget, just briefly, and for
them they are recognizing property tax increases. At this time that they are going
through is pretty rough for residents, so hopefully we can keep our property taxes for
our residents, owner-occupied, local residents, middle-class, and poor that are
struggling, we have to keep those either equal or lower than what they were previously
listed as. That is the goal for me going into the budget.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is music to my ears, sir. Councilmember
Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to make a comment that when we are
having such heavy inflation, obviously, all our expenses are going up, right, so that is a
challenge. When we are looking at things, like I am trying to go down that rabbit hole
of insurance, so even that is really rising. A big concern that I have that is in alignment
of Councilmember Kagawa is that not everyone is lucky enough to own a house. When
we have the non-owner-occupied, that is the long-term rentals, I am really concerned
about that element because when those taxes go up and the insurance goes up, we are
pushing, especially our younger population, I am not disparaging people who are
COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 27, 2024
(inaudible), but I know that people who are born the generation that most of us were,
not him, have an easier time being able to have a home than those younger than us. We
are losing our workforce profoundly, so that non-owner-occupied—it will be rough for
some of our rental houses that are in areas where the prices are inflating rapidly and
have always been more expensive. That is the big issue for me.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have the ability and what I am going to be
proposing is reducing the tax rates in owner-occupied and residential areas, because we
talked about, when Mr. Bosshard up here, the middle-class may not be in the affordable
housing program.
Councilmember Cowden: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: They cannot qualify for the affordable housing
program, but they are working people; police, firemen, nurses, or teachers, and these
tax increases have devasted them. That is why I am saying we have to equalize the
damage that has been done or reduce the damage that has been done with these rising
assessments, and the only way we on this body can do that is through the tax rates.
That will be the discussion, is how far do we go, and can we find the funds to make up
the difference?
Councilmember Cowden: When this Resolution comes to us today, in a
few minutes, is it going to be a done deal today, because I have been trying to work on
and look at those numbers and find that place where we can adjust the tiers. Even last
night, I went and spoke with an injured hotel worker and I remember when the house
that he lives in was built, it is a decent little house and was very much built as a starter
house, and they pay four thousand five hundred dollars ($4,500) per month, working
multiple jobs, they have a young family, has an injury, how they are going to keep the
house now? The landlord can only take so much of a hit too. I am just putting it out
there that I care about these renters.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, I, we, all share that. To your question as
far as is this is a done deal? No, this is just a proposed budget and proposed tax rates.
We will have the ability through our process to change it.
Councilmember Cowden: If it goes as-is today, I do not have to go home
and fall apart?
Council Chair Rapozo: No, this is just a proposal.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Councilmember Kagawa: It is the beginning.
Councilmember Cowden: For the tax rate. Usually, we do it once and
then we do not go back to it.
Council Chair Rapozo: No, that is never done that way. That is what
the budget process is.
COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: I mean we look at all the budget, but the tax
rates...
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, we set the tax rate. But that is not today,
we are not setting tax rates today. We are gaining what the Administration sent us on
March 15th.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, because it says, "Resolution establishing
the real property tax rates," but we are not stuck.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, but right before that, it says, "And the
Proposed."
Councilmember Kuali`i: The entire proposal is how it balances, so if we
change that, then we have to change everything else.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, we control the budget, not the
Administration.
Councilmember Cowden: I have shellshock from having made a mistake
in 2019.
Councilmember Kagawa: My cardinal rule is you do not look at a story of
one (1)person and then look to that to adjust rates or what have you, tax policy, because
what you do is you will have unintended consequences for a lot of the people who are
not going through that big bump in their life. Overall, the way we look at tax policy is
broadly, looking at numbers, but I think if when you go story by story, you just
complicate everything to where it is going to be very hard to analyze why that is the
route to go. In general, we need to "keep it simple, stupid."
Councilmember Cowden: I appreciate what you are saying. I chose to use
a simple example, but what we have is three (3) different economies on our island, and
so it is not just one (1) story, it is the entire region. What would work better for one (1)
group than another or another—how do we adapt for regions, because we are very
different in different areas.
Councilmember Kagawa: I did not mean to call anyone on the Council
stupid, it is just a saying.
Council Chair Rapozo: Cliché.
Councilmember Kagawa: "Keep it simple" is better than making it
complicated, because what you have is you will have unintended consequences that will
backfire on you.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is true. Again, my perspective is this is
what we saw in the last two (2) years. We saw assessments go through the roof, which
equates to increased revenues to the county. Now, typically, and again, this is only my
COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 27, 2024
second budget back, and last year I was not familiar with how drastic, I should have,
but I was not, this year now I see when I look back how much moneys were generated
by this county in, not only from real property tax, but with the TAT and the GET, and
there was no reduction to the taxpayers, zero. We spent it. This year is the correction
and I am hoping my colleagues agree that this year we correct. Yes, there is going to be
a reduction in revenue. You cannot have it both ways. We have to scrutinize the budget
to make sure that we get what we need, but we also provide that relief to the taxpayers
who have been overtaxed, in my opinion, over the last two (2) years. Very simple,
Councilmember Kagawa's, concept. It is not targeting any particular zone, area, or
taxpayer. It is a general concept of, "When we have unanticipated revenues from taxes,
then there should be a concerted effort to give some of that back, and that is the direction
I am hoping this council will take this year.
Councilmember Kagawa: My final thought is that is why Proposition 48
makes so much sense, where it is just, cannot go higher than two percent (2%) of your
prior year tax. The valuations, your neighbor could be one hundred thousand dollars
($100,000)value because of a sale than the other neighbor. It is so crazy that it is based
on sales, which are just so unpredictable. There are "fixer uppers" selling for over one
million dollars ($1,000,000). It is absurd with what is happening with sales, and that
is what we use as our basis of property taxes. It is going to be tough, but like I said, I
think if we can ensure that residents that own and occupy their homes and not
intending to sell, that they are not affected by these crazy market sales in their areas.
That is what we have to do broadly.
Council Chair Rapozo: I agree. Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I am listening to this conversation piece on
property tax, I think we all own property here, whether we own or rent. We all fall into
a category. When we do tax relief, when we craft ordinances, bills, resolutions,
somewhere along the line one (1) of us falls into that category. When we introduce bills,
resolutions, ordinances, we need to do it for the betterment of everyone on Kaua`i. I
must agree with Councilmember Kagawa that a single story does not constitute for
changing the entire picture. We take what we know. Council Chair Rapozo is leading
the budget reviews, we take what the Administration says, because we have to trust
what they say, they balance their budget, they want to do capital improvement projects
on Kaua`i, they want to make Kaua`i a better place for us. We will work really hard in
an effort to benefit everyone on Kaua`i, whether low-income, middle income, or the high
income.
Councilmember Carvalho: We are going to have that chance.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Carvalho: At the Council level, we have that opportunity
to go through everything and make the decision collectively, and that is what I look
forward to, overall. We can talk about all the different levels and what is different, but
at the end of the day, we are going to have to make that decision, and I look forward to
that.
,
COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: And throughout the budget process, starting
tomorrow, we will be working closely with the folks at the Real Property Tax Division,
the Finance Department, and the budget team, the mayor, and ideally when we work
together and in the end we will come to the best place, because we have to meet the
needs of the public, especially when it comes to our core services and yet balance it in a
way that we can help those who need the help the most to keep our families here on
Kaua`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion? There are two (2)
things, tax rates versus tax bills that people pay. It does not matter what the tax rate
is to the taxpayer, it does not matter. They could care less what the tax rate is. All they
care about is how much taxes they are paying. As we look at our owner-occupied tax
rate, it is relatively low, if you look across the counties, ours is very low, but if you
decrease the tax rates, the opponents will say, "Once you lower them, it will be very
hard to raise it back when you need to." Not necessarily, because if the tax bills do not
change...in other words if you do a net zero increase tax rate change, then the public
pays the same. You could put a two percent (2%) cap, but it is up to us, we work
backwards, and we set that...if we do not want the people to pay any more in the
owner-occupied class and we lower the rate, so we get to that point. If for some reason
next year's revenues drop and we have to increase the tax rate, you increase the tax
rate to have the zero net increase, then the taxpayer is not upset because their bill has
not changed versus sharing the tax rates—it went from two dollars forty cents ($2.40)
to three dollars sixty cents ($3.60) everyone will go nuts, but the tax bill will stay the
same because the assessments have dropped significantly. We control that flow, not
the Administration, we control the flow and that is the process that starts tomorrow
morning. I am excited, actually. Is there any further discussion?
The motion to receive C 2024-75 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
CLAIMS:
C 2024-76 Communication (03/11/2024) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Suzanne Kay Smith, for personal injuries,
vehicle damage and medical expenses, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County
of Kaua`i.
C 2024-77 Communication (03/11/2024) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Jaquelynn Sua, for her mother's loss of life
and medical bills, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2024-76 and C 2024-77 to the Office of
the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded
by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 27, 2024
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to refer C 2024-76 and C 2024-77 to the Office of the County Attorney
for disposition and/or report back to the Council was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
COMMITTEE REPORT:
PUBLIC WORKS & VETERANS SERVICES COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PWVS 2024-05) submitted by the Public Works & Veterans
Services Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"PWVS 2024-04 — Communication (02/28/2024) from Council Chair
Rapozo, requesting the presence of the County Engineer and Allison Fraley,
Environmental Services Manager, to provide a briefing regarding the condition
of transfer stations, including but not limited to, the status of prior transfer
station Notices of Violation (NOVOs), progress toward Best Management
Practices (BMPs), and compliance with the National Pollutant Discharge
Elimination System (NPDES) program requirements,"
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone discussion or public
testimony? Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2024-13 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE REAL
PROPERTY TAX RATES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2024 TO JUNE 30, 2025
FOR THE COUNTY OF KAUAI
Councilmember Kuali`i moved that Resolution No. 2024-13 be ordered to print,
that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for May 14, 2024 at 5:00 p.m., and
that said Resolution be returned to the Committee of the Whole, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 27, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is to schedule a public hearing for
May 14, 2024, at 5:00 p.m., so it is an afternoon or early evening public hearing. Is
there any public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
BRIDGET HAMMERQUIST: Good morning, Council Chair Rapozo and
Members of the Council. Bridget Hammerquist, from Koloa, Kaua`i. On the Ag issue
is something that I actually raise to Councilmember DeCosta (inaudible) if we looked
at the state statute, when we talk about additional dwellings on Ag, a guest house, if
you go to HRS Section 205 4.25(a) is what is the permitted use of Ag land and one of
them is farmworker housing. I am not sure why our county laws are so different than
the state law, but the state law does not require a minimum amount of earnings by
the farmer or the Ag person to justify Ag housing. It does not require that they live
on the property like ours does in Kaua`i County, it does not require that it be their
primary residence like our does on Kaua`i. I think that we can actually build family
homes more than just an additional dwelling unit, I would like the county to take a
look at how different our county rates, our county ordinances with regard to the use
of Ag land compared to state. It is much more restrictive on Kaua`i and I think very
imbalanced and we could get a lot more housing and help farmers, because we need
to watch crops. For my own little half acre, I have four (4) avocado trees, mango trees,
and people actually drive up to the road, park, and get out pickers and pick my trees,
and we go out and say, "Hey, what are you doing"? There is a real need...and we are
not helping Ag people on this island. Just a single unit is good, but they actually
should get to do more. It is just something I would like to offer. The other thing about
trying to understand the tax rate, I looked at what was happening in Zone 2 in Koloa
where I come from and I brought this for you,just as sampling. We have five thousand
(5,000) acres in Zone 2 in the Koloa area, it has been Ag, and then in 2022, it was all
reclassified as Industrial. One of the parcels, I am pretty familiar with because I
worked on it when we did the dairy issue, is ten (10) seventy-six (76) acres down in
Mahaulepu, which is Mahaulepu farmland which is (inaudible) Grove Farm. I never
thought I would be helping Grove Farm, but I do, and that is now classified as
Industrial. I could not find anything industrial done on that land. When you talk
about the tax rate by different classifications, there is use classification that gets put
on top. I do not know how you begin to balance or know what you revenue is if the
Finance Department and the tax assessor is attributing to Ag land, a classification of
Industrial and then taxing the Industrial rate even when there is no industrial
operation on that land. I would like to offer this package as an illustration of some of
the changes that have been made in Zone 2. If you are looking for a place...
Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify? Okay, I will ask you to come back. Next speaker.
Mr. Lindner: Jeff Lindner, for the record. I have some
issues here in some of the language in the tax determination rate where 5(c)2, the
percentage of revenue be raised from that real property tax and each class should be
multiplied by the total revenue to be raised to all real property in order and I think
this is the key wording, "To determine the amount of revenue to be derived from that
class." It looks like the job is you are supposed to determine how much revenue you
COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 27, 2024
want to get from each class. It is not what exists, it is that you look at the entire thing
and it is a percent. There is the amount that is taxable revenue and so you are
supposed to look at that and say if commercial is only paying seven percent (7%) of
the total, does that sound right? Or if hotel is paying eighteen percent (18%)...that
is how I understand that. The other thing as Bridget mentioned is that when you go
from land class, and it says land class but it is really use, at the title, when you go to
use...when you take agricultural land and you put it in commercial and that is
probably the best example, which there is a nine hundred fifty (950) acre parcel in
Kealia that is commercial. Those are two (2) different uses...I guess maybe it is
because it is cattle, it is commercial, nine hundred fifty (950) acres is commercial,
that is going to skew the real amount of the tax base of commercial land. That is not
the same as a shopping center. That has to be looked at a little closer.
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify?
Ms. Hammerquist: If it is in fact the Council's (inaudible) to
determine the total revenue they need for their budget and then to decide what
percentage of that revenue they get from the various class categories, I know since
COVID all of our resorts have increased their rates tremendously. A kama aina rate
at the Hyatt, when you get them, and there were so many a year, it was two hundred
dollars ($200) per night, and now it is eight hundred dollars ($800) per night. The
Sheraton is seven hundred and something. They all really increased the rates they
are charging the public, but it does not look like their tax has increased
proportionately at all, when Residential got hit over the last two (2) years, I do not
think the resorts got anywhere near the hit and they are at about eighteen
percent (18%) contributing to our total budget. I think that is disproportionate.
Vacation Rentals By Owner (VRBO) is up more, and they are raising more revenue
for the county than our resorts and that is a disparity. I would just like to offer that
to say there are places where we can increase, so we can save our residents, both
owner-occupied and rental. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Mr. Lindner.
Mr. Lindner: I want to bring up this thing about
agricultural land and how everyone wants to protect agricultural land. When you
take and what you saw was from 2021 to 2022, there was thirteen thousand (13,000)
acres in Zone 3, there was seven thousand (7,000) acres in Zone 2, there were some
in Zone 1, that agriculture was transferred to Industrial. I am wondering if
agriculture is so sacred, how does that affect agriculture when you are putting it
in...and a lot of those...the Real Property Division can explain that but a lot of those
things were in Ag and Conservation and they got switched to Industrial. Some of
them had Ag and Industrial, every small percentage was Industrial and it got
switched to Industrial. If there is somehow this thing about Ag land and what we
want to do, well, obviously it should be water. The thing would be if it turns out that
land class of Ag land is really paying so much of the property tax, some of the money
should go back to Ag land. If Ag land shows that they are paying so much, and I think
COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 27, 2024
that is why you look at how much each one is paying, that should go back to that land.
There should be something based on those numbers to sort of help that class because
it is giving you so much money.
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else?
SHERRI CUMMINGS: Sherri Cummings, for the record, Department
of Hawaiian Home Lands (DHHL) beneficiary. I want to spin off the gentleman that
just spoke here. We are talking about Ag land. We just came from a meeting that
was held last week Thursday with the Department of Water and thank you to you
folks that we brought up the water use development plan and reservation rights for
the DHHL. There was good communication. Through this process and just for the
record, we are having a meeting again on the 28th. What is tale telling which he was
talking about is this whole emphasis on agriculture. When you talk about agriculture
what is happening right now, and you folks know that the usage of agriculture lands
is everything. The Department of Water, the emphasis and where they are putting
water is on basically that side of the island with regards to Ag, and the question that
I brought up before the Department of Water was that there is this big thing that
even they say, which is the farmers and the ranchers is asking for water, so the
priority now is for water for Ag. For me as a Hawaiian, I asked them, "Who are these
farmers and ranchers that are asking for the water that you folks are actually
prioritizing for," because last we know in 1985 was the last award for DHHL, so take
us right out of the game, as beneficiaries to the trust. I always tell you folks this
regarding Agribusiness Development Corporation, which is what is my big thing,
because I cannot see someone that was born in 1994 to control water, to take twelve
thousand (12,000) acres of land. Now, they come over to the eastside and they are
taking our water there. When we look at how we are diversifying and what is being
put on Ag regarding taxation, please consider. We, as Hawaiians, anyone, in general,
whatever happened to taxing us based on how many years we lived on this island.
Have the person break it down as to how many homeowners are kama aina and why
are we not taking care of them. What is wrong? What am I missing that we are not
worried about the long-term, because there are not much of us who own land, and
that is only a small sector, and you are breaking our backs. We cannot afford real
property. We cannot. I remember the time of Tim Bynum or Jessie Fukushima, when
they were worried about long-term ownership, that is not even considered. What is
wrong? But we are trying to be so creative about taking care of who has the
opportunity now to diversify and make Ag be something else. Let us call it—it is
happening on the Westside. The Mana plain is going to be built. What is happening
on Westside? Everything is "Westside." I am not anti-Westside, but it is not fair.
Take care of the people who are long-term residents of this island and figure out a
way that we are not taken out because of real property.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Councilmember Cowden: I have a clarifying question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: Am I hearing you right when you say you
cannot afford real property, you are saying many kama aina are tenants, they are
renters.
Ms. Cummings: Absolutely.
Councilmember Cowden: And so you are in alignment with we have to
be careful of what we do to non-owner-occupied.
Ms. Cummings: Exactly.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify?
MAUNA KEA TRASK: Hi, aloha. Mauna Kea Trask, for the record. I
heard Ag land discussions online, so I got excited. Unfortunately, we are at a point
where we have to redistrict a ton of Ag land. I heard some comments before
Ag/Industrial. For those of us who remembers Ag, who really remembers sugar,
pineapples are too old for me, but I know you folks do—that is a huge industrial effort.
There are little things that are more industrial than industrial twentieth century Ag.
You look at the K5loa Mill, that is a huge Ag structure. That is important
infrastructure, these industrial areas that are identified in the General Plan, et
cetera, but times have changed. You have thousands of acres of Ag land, a lot of them
single parcels. You cannot subdivide them. If you do it once after seventy-two (72),
you are stuck with eight (8) one-hundred-acre lot forever, maxed by density. You
have to change that to rural. Ag in the `60s when we did the land use districting
system, that was just a catchall, they put everything in Ag, because Ag ran
everything. They ran the State, they ran everything. We do not have that anymore.
Single mono crop twentieth century Ag is dead. We need to get smaller lands into
the hands of smaller farmers. You have to subdivide it, you have to do that. You have
to put the land in the Hawaiians hands, put it in the local hands. It is a heavy lift. It
is a lot to ask, I know, but it is worth socializing this idea and getting it out there. We
need to get away from this, because all we are doing is subsidizing the billionaires
buying these things. Local people cannot buy five (5) acres, that is the smallest Ag
lot you can get, five (5) acres...you cannot do it, you cannot work it. You have to live
on it. Back then, all the sugar cane camps were on Ag. We all lived Ag because we
all worked Ag, but we do not live Ag, because we do not work Ag, you know? Radical
ideas, but Land Use Research Foundation (LURF), all these studies done, rural is the
most underutilized State land use district. Lawa`i has some, Homesteads is rural, we
live in these areas, Kapahi has, I believe, anyway look at creative solutions.You folks
are stuck in a very restrictive rubric, it is an election year, I am sorry for that. Be
bold, do what needs to be done for the future. We have to start looking at this idea.
The big scale/large scale Ag, Hawai`i is changing. There are big moves may be
happening on the Westside pretty soon, just because of age, so we need to relook at
that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: I need you to be clearer. When you are looking
at these large Ag parcels, you want them redistricted and made into smaller parcels
for development?
Mr. Trask: Yes and no. I am going to speak generally,
because I do not know the specific parcels and sizes, but Westside.
Council Chair Rapozo: Real quick. I want to make sure we are
talking about the tax rates.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Because...
Councilmember Cowden: Alright.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Lindner was very creative, he tied it back
to the...
Mr. Trask: Because the tax rates, these large-scale Ag,
what you are doing is...and why you have to be very careful, is because farmers
cannot even afford these large Ag lands. When you are looking at these large
landowners are only letting...they are letting these ranchers on property ranching to
get the tax break, well, not really, because these folks can pay the taxes. But what
they are doing is if you keep it low, they are just letting the ranchers afford the leases,
otherwise the ranchers have to make enough money off cattle to pay the taxes, there
is no way. The local ranchers can do that. You are subsidizing Ag. You are subsidizing
a lifestyle industry that needs help. If you want to get away from that, you redistrict
large heirs of rural that allows you to subdivide less and then you are not stuck in
this equate.
Councilmember Cowden: Did you run over here?
Mr. Trask: Yes, jog, I do not run too fast.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any further questions for
Mr. Trask? If not, thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify?
Ms. Cummings: Mauna Kea brought up a good point and I will
say you have got good people in the family and not so good people in the family. Some
of my families were the "not so good people." What Mauna Kea was talking about,
that is true. Some of my family protected big, large developers, landowners, and we
held the Ag for them until they could go into a direction of development, and then
they take it out of Ag, because our family, some of them, were the ones who held on
and did their little sheep business to keep the entire property into agriculture. All of
us, the rest of us, are penalized. All of a sudden they decide they going do something
different and then our people get, "Okay, now you did this for me, I going put you over
here, because now we going do exactly what we knew we was going do twenty (20)
years ago." We have to be fair and equitable. If you pay attention to what is
COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 27, 2024
happening on the Westside, it scares us, because this is what is happening. The
creativity for agriculture so that they can do other things outside of real Ag. This is
what I fight about all the time because us as general people, and I only speak on
one-side, sometimes Hawaiian homes because we do not have access to our Ag lands,
but all the rest that should be having opportunities for that Westside lands and for
the seven thousand (7,000) on the Eastside, no one is having it because the criteria is
too humungous for normal people who get x amount of cattle, or sheep, or x amount
to access because you have to be beyond to even have the opportunity to apply, and
that is on the State side. Be careful when we talk about Ag because it is just too
creative activity to not provide what definitely they should be providing as regards to
tax revenues to our place.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else? Seeing
none. Is there further discussion?
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: I would like to talk to the Real Property Tax
Division.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
MIKE HUBBARD, Real Property Tax Manager: For the record, Mike
Hubbard, Tax Manager.
Councilmember Cowden: When I am looking at some of these maps
here, I am just clarifying what I understand, when we see a property in the same
year, it can be taxed as Conservation and assessed at seven hundred ($700) and the
same tax map key (TMK) is also the same year, Agriculture at seven million three
hundred thousand dollars ($7,300,000), is that because there is some dividing line on
the property that goes Conservation relative to...do you want to see what I am looking
at? Oh, you got it. When we see it goes both ways, I understand that is confusing but
that is because maybe on the ten thousand seventy-six (10,076) acres, there is a line
on it and part of it is Conversation and part of it is...why would we have two (2)
classifications on the same year?
Mr. Hubbard: Historically, we would tax based off of zoning,
and so this parcel looks like it had a holdover from that historical designations, thus
there was multiple tax classifications, Ordinance No. 920 that was passed in 2012...
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Hubbard: ...said there should really be one (1).
COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: One (1).
Mr. Hubbard: One (1) tax classification based off the highest
tax rate, the use.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, so this is a holdover from the past
where it has two (2) spots, and then when we see a big open field, I believe I asked
this question a couple years ago and it goes from Ag to Industrial, maybe they put a
cell tower on it. The entire parcel would go Industrial because there is a cell tower
on it?
Mr. Hubbard: I think that is precisely the situation on this
one.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, because we had some really upset
people before and (inaudible) them taking that cell tower down, it would stay there.
I had another question. When I look at properties that say are five (5) acres, they do
not have a house on it, that is non-owner-occupied residential even if it does not have
a house on it, because it cannot be Ag because it is five (5) acres or slightly less? Is
that right?
Mr. Hubbard: I do not think so.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I can make an appointment with you
and look at that.
Councilmember Kuali`i: How large is the entire property and how
much of the property does the cell tower take up?
Mr. Hubbard: The cell tower takes up a very small area of
the property.
Councilmember Kuali`i: But the cell tower going on that small piece of
the property meant the entire property got reclassed as Industrial?
Mr. Hubbard: According to the Ordinance, Chapter 5A, that
is correct.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Does that cell tower sit on primarily large
landowners properties on Kaua`i or small landowners properties on Kaua`i?
Mr. Hubbard: I would guess large landowners on Kauai.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: There are plenty of cell towers that are on
buildings, like we are looking at it right here, churches, hospitals, shopping centers,
schools, cell towers are often on other types of properties. If they are on commercial,
I think we are commercial here as government, we would go for the highest cost, is
that correct? We have a cell tower but we are not Industrial because we have a cell
tower.
Mr. Hubbard: There is a cell tower over there and it is on
commercial property.
Councilmember Cowden: So, they are the same rate.
Mr. Hubbard: They are the same rate, so you would
probably, you could pick either of them or it would be accommodating with what the
Ordinance said.
Councilmember Cowden: And if it was a different rate, it would go to
the highest rate?
Mr. Hubbard: Say there was a cell tower on a hotel, then the
hotel and resort would be your highest rate, and so you would not factor in the
commercial aspect or the industrial aspect of the cell tower, you would just assign it
the Hotel and Resort tax rate.
Councilmember Cowden: When we see a cell tower on a church, do they
still get zero (0) tax rate, or do they get an Industrial rate?
Mr. Hubbard: I am not aware of a particular situation.
Councilmember Cowden: Or a school? Like, one (1) school has two (2)
cell towers on it. I would have to look at those properties. Okay, I will look at those
pieces.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Are there further questions? If
not, thank you. Is there any discussion?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: I did want to address the one-time subdivision
rule for Ag lands. That was our first attempt to try to get that, but the
Administration's opposition was very strong, so we opted to go with the guest house
instead, just because it was something we knew we could probably get done. That is
a barrier in the existing law. Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Council Chair Rapozo and I did extensive
homework on this. We have a housing crisis. Our county addresses low-income, but
no one is addressing middle-income. We are the only island in the State of Hawai`i
that cannot subdivide more than once. Every other island can subdivide as many
COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 27, 2024
times as possible they want. For example, you have a twenty-acre parcel and you
want to subdivide it into four (4) or five-acre parcels, you can. Five (5) years down
the road you want to subdivide it again to smaller parcels, you can. We are the only
island that cannot do that. Why? Kaua`i wants to be kept rural. I like rural. Our
Administration likes rural areas, but rural does not help our people from Kaua`i own
a home. Council Chair Rapozo and I sat down, thought about this, and came up with
the second best solution which was to allow Ag and CPR lots to build a one-to-one
dwelling structure, which means if you have one (1) structure on the property, you
can build a guest house. If you have two (2), you can build two (2) guest houses. Why
did we do that? Ask yourself if we subdivide lands on Kaua`i right now, large
landowners, start west, Robinson, Grove Farm, Alexander & Baldwin (A&B),
Zuckerburg, Lucas Estate, Kahili Jurastic Park Ranch, and they cut up five-acre lots,
even three-acre lots, you tell me one (1) person in this room that can afford a three-
acre lot with the going price? We would not. What we are doing is giving people who
have Ag lands and CPR lands in their hands right now, who bought long time ago
when it was affordable and/or families who gave it to their siblings, children, or
grandchildren, those are the local families that will benefit from this. In closing,
those cell towers out there, they draw in revenue. A lot of those cell towers are not
in a pasture where you can grow lettuce, tomato, and cattle, they are on mountain
ridges. So, now, we are going to take care of the large landowners on Kaua`i, let us
go take care them, let us give them a five-acre parcel of industrial/commercial use
and allow them to use the rest of the land as a lower tax bracket. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I do want to agree on that, like with the
person who is really distressed over the increase in his property when we did the cell
tower, he had done it just to be helpful to the community. Someone asked him, so he
did it. He had no idea that it would change the use of his entire parcel, so I want to
agree on that one. Chair, I want to just ask you to bear with me and assure me again,
because I had two (2) amendments that I wanted to do with this Resolution today. I
sent it in. Do we not do amendments today because we are going to do it in two (2)
months?
Council Chair Rapozo: If you have amendments to this Resolution, I
encourage to do it today because we have a public hearing, and I would like to have...
Councilmember Cowden: I did send them in, and I have certain
challenges in sending in my request.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have the amendments ready?
Councilmember Cowden: No, I sent them in yesterday.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Cowden: But it could not go directly, but I am hoping it
went through. Can we look at it after the break?
COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 27, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, we need to take a caption break, so follow
up with your amendments. If anyone has amendments to this...on the Real Property
Tax Resolution?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, I want to change a couple of valuations
there, so that...it seems to me like if the office is looking at it, if the Administration
is looking at it, if there is a suggestion on the change in rates, they need to know it
now and not in two (2) months.
Council Chair Rapozo: I agree with you that yes, if you have an
amendment to the Resolution, I encourage you to do it today, because I do not want
to have a public hearing on rates that are going to be different.
Councilmember Cowden: Right, so I sent them in yesterday.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let us take a caption break. We will track
down your amendments, and we will reconvene at 10:45 a.m.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 10:32 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 10:46 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I spoke with staff and we are clear. I can do
these amendments in two (2) months, correct?
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct. The Charter requires the budget to
be balanced, so if we change tax rates on the Resolution today, then it effectively puts
the budget off balance, which is really not legal. I did want to offer you the
opportunity and if you wanted to discuss, that is fine. That is why the public hearing
is set so far in the future to give us the opportunity to do our Budget Reviews to
understand exactly where we are going to be and what we need to do, and if in fact
there is an opportunity to touch the tax rates or the tiers, it will be done at that time.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: You are welcome.
Councilmember Cowden: When sometimes I bring up simple examples,
because I see them all the time, thank you for allowing me to send you three (3) recent
property sales that moved pretty quickly that are extremely high, I just want to say
in the one (1) property that I looked at because I was over there, I was curious,
between last year and this year, that little house tax went from five thousand dollars
($5,000) to thirteen thousand five hundred dollars ($13,500) without a category
COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 27, 2024
change. I did not know to tell them, "Hey, you can contest that," but for that
landowner, another person in the community, that is more than one thousand
dollars ($1,000) per month that goes up on the house. So, probably something sold
near it, and it is frightening for people who have rental houses, and it is so
destabilizing for anyone who does not and has to get passed on. I am the only one of
a lot of us that lives right in the midst of where there are quite such a rapid and
profound changes, we are like on a really rocking ship.
Council Chair Rapozo: I agree. It is unfortunately not as rare as we
would like to see or accept. I think with looking at these tiers, and I know,
Councilmember Cowden, you shared with me your desire to change the numbers of
the tiers, I would agree because if you look at the reports that just came out of the
median prices of homes on Kaua`i, at one million four hundred thousand
dollars ($1,400,000) or whatever it is, it changes depending on what report, and if you
look at our tiers, remember that is the median. That means half of the homes are
more than that. When you look at our tiers at Tier 3 with the threshold set at two
million dollars ($2,000,000)—that is way too low, if our median is one million two
hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000). I agree with you and I am looking forward to
having that discussion and playing with the numbers. I hate to use the word
"playing," but that is what came to my mind. As we work with the spreadsheet to
adjust these thresholds because if we just go with two million dollars ($2,000,000) at
Tier 3, a lot of the local families are going to get hit hard, so that has to be adjusted.
The question will be where do we set those thresholds.
Councilmember Cowden: When you look at the Title Guaranty's
information, the statistics, you got yours off Zillow, when you look at the ones that
are the local escrow offices here. In north Zone 4 and Zone 5, the average is like two
million seven hundred thousand dollars ($2,700,000), so it is really high. It does not
even displace people who live in the houses, it shuts businesses down, because they
cannot keep their hours open, they cannot keep people on shift, so every single thing
escalates. It is very expensive to not...it cost us more to push people out of housing,
then it does to get a little bit less tax.
Council Chair Rapozo: Agreed. Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Are you in Zone 4 or Zone 5?
Councilmember Cowden: I am in Zone 4.
Councilmember DeCosta: Okay, so this property tax is going to affect
your personal home that you live in?
Councilmember Cowden: I am every blessed because I am in
owner-occupied, so it does not affect me, but it affects people who rent.
Council Chair Rapozo: But again, the owner-occupied was on the
assessment, so if your assessment increases more than three percent (3%), right?
That is simple math. If your assessment has all risen more than three percent (3%),
which equates to a higher tax bill for everyone including owner-occupied. For many
COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 27, 2024
years, councils have been saying, "We never raised your tax rates," yes, we have not
raised your tax rates because we did not have to because your assessments took care
of the increase in the tax bill.
Councilmember DeCosta: Not only in just Zone 4 or Zone 5, but every
zone across the island has also gotten hit with that, so when we look at this, we are
looking at people from the west to the north. We need to take care of all of our people.
Council Chair Rapozo: I can tell you the Westside, Kalaheo, Koloa,
it is everywhere. It is the entire island, actually. My assessment was not as drastic
as where I live in Houselots, there are not too many three-million-dollar,
fifteen-million-dollar homes being sold there, but my assessment has increased. My
house is assessed more than what that house is even worth. That is just the way it
is. That is unfortunate.
Councilmember Cowden: Koloa/Po`ipu is twice as expensive as
Westside, Lihu`e, Kapa`a, Wailua. Northeast and north is three times as expensive
as in that thing, so we have like three (3) separate economies, I say that regularly.
The data proves that out. For what people earn versus what the costs are, and so I
am just trying to find that middle ground that takes care of everyone as close as we
can.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is going to be the challenge.
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Process-wise, any amendments to any of the
tax rates, can only be done if the valuation of the tiers are known and set. As it is
now, they are known and set based on ordinances that we passed. If it is going to
change, it seems like we need to begin work on it today. By May 14th, if there is going
to be a proposal...the proposal then will be on changes to the rates, those valuations
should already be in place, should they not?
Council Chair Rapozo: This is the process. Starting tomorrow, every
department will be up here. Every Councilmember should have an idea of what they
would like to see that is not in the budget or what is in the budget that they do not
believe we need. As we go through the budget process, and our staff does a good job
keeping track of where we are at with the money. Once we identify the budget that
this Council is going to ask, then we have to figure how to pay for that budget. That
is when we go to the tax rates and the tiers and make the adjustments necessary.
For right now, if you have an idea, if you want to switch...I would suggest you work
with staff and get an idea of what the fiscal outcome is if you change the tier
thresholds. You will see what the fiscal impact will be to the budget, to the revenues,
and that is the starting point. It is very difficult to figure out what that is now because
we do not know the budget. If you are taking the budget as it has been presented, we
know what the cost is. Now, you can mess around with the spreadsheet, but you have
to make sure that the amount of revenues required in the budget is the amount of
revenues that your tax rates and thresholds will produce. That is the process.
COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: But we know the budget as it is proposed by
the Administration, so that is our starting document.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Councilmember Kuali`i: And we have to be cognizant, too, that
anything we propose that reduces revenue has to be offset by reduction and expenses,
because how else do you balance the budget, right? It is easy to just change numbers
here on these tax rates and make that change, but the flipside is the hard side,
because this Council and councils before them, over the years, have never been able
to find significant cuts. I think once, maybe Councilmember Kagawa, did this
across-the-board thing and I supported him, but I do not think anyone else did,
because it was drastic. The bigger work is on the flipside which is reducing the
expenditures to the budget as proposed. Obviously, the sooner you start on that, the
better, because I think it is really important that we work with the Administration,
because they are the ones day in and day out delivering the services and managing
the operations, so they know better than we do, what it takes to deliver what needs
to be delivered to the public. Now, we can disagree and say, "We do not need to be
delivering all of that," but we need to own up to that publicly, too. That is why the
exercise in balancing the budget by offsetting whatever cuts you make, relief you give
in tax revenue, is also expressed, proposed in your cuts. We all have a big job.
Council Chair Rapozo: Tomorrow morning, we will go over the
budget process. We will start off with the budget process and all the councilmembers,
again, this is not new for most of you, in fact, all of you, it is if you want to provide
tax relief and your tax relief equates to four million dollars ($4,000,000), that is the
impact. Then, you have to come up with four million dollars ($4,000,000) from
somewhere else. Whether it is programs, services, or tax increases in other
classifications. That is the balance. That is how you balance. You cannot come up
and proposed a change in a rate without a companion revenue increase. You have to
have both, so your budget will always remain balanced. That is always the challenge,
because you do not want to cut what the mayor wants, but if the priority of this council
is to provide tax relief, then we need to be willing to cut. Again, as what was clearly
stated by you earlier, anything we cut from the mayor's budget requires five (5)votes,
just to cut it. That is why it has to be agreed upon by the supermajority.
Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: In our first four (4) years, we really did not
make any large changes, there were certain adaptations. Last year my memory was
that at the beginning, and this is what I learned from you, is we said, "Let us cut back
that reserve," and this year it is one hundred fifty million dollars ($150,000,000). If
we cut just a little bit back, and what happened with a lot of gratitude to the Office
of the Mayor is that the mayor took it, and he reduced a certain amount of money,
and this is one of the ways we were able to give two dollars fifty-nine cents ($2.59)
lower tax rate, because the mayor's administration actually solved that challenge.
They came back in their Supplemental Budget with something that I felt met us
halfway. We did get to experience and learn without us having to decide, "Well, let
us not fix this roof or court surface or not get that fire truck." We worked together. I
thank the Administration for doing that last year. That is another pathway.
COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: That is exactly what I meant when we said we
have to work with the Administration.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Ideally, we go through this process, then there
is a second round, right, where the Administration comes back based on what we all
went through, and comes with their final proposal, if you will. Then, that is what we
have to do final votes on. If at that time, the two (2) days of decision-making, we are
trying to do all these thinker rates and cuts, it can get really crazy, so we have to do
our work starting tomorrow.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is the budget process. I look at starting
tomorrow as working with the Administration, that is why it is a collaborative effort.
Our job is to make sure that what they are proposing is in the best interest of the
County and making sure we are spending the right amount of money. You have to
have an idea as individual councilmembers, if you are going to change the rates and
there is going to be a fiscal impact, then you need to start looking and asking the right
questions of what can wait. "What can we wait to do next year?" That is up to each
and every one of you. I cannot remember when it was and maybe Councilmember
Carvalho was the mayor, and Kaipo or Bryan told the mayor, "We are going cut the
budget by x amount of percent, you folks provide us what you want to cut or else we
will." That was harsh, but I remember doing that one (1)year.You have to remember,
too, we never had these types of revenues before. This influx of cash, we never had
before. If I wanted to add one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for park
improvements for Hanamd'ulu, for example, we had to find one hundred thousand
dollars ($100,000) to cut from someplace. Today, we have much more flexibility
because of the additional revenues that we have generated. Yes, it is going to have
to offset with something, but it is a lot easier now than it was back in the past. It is
all about priorities. You have seven (7) different councilmembers, seven (7) different
priorities, and with the Administration's priorities just take advantage of this
opportunity with the Administration over the next couple weeks. Councilmember
Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: Just going back and forth from the
Administration and knowing that it will be submitted to council, council review, and
then hopefully we work together, we come up with our proposals at that time, and
that is why it is exciting for tomorrow—let us go! And then go from there, and
hopefully the Administration will look at it, can find avenues to...it is not going to all
"pan out" but hopefully the bigger things that we can connect on...I think we can get
through the process knowing that process can work, let us go! We have the ability to
do that. We are going to get into some areas where it will be challenging and we are
going to have to make some tough decisions, but overall working closely with the
administration, we can make it work.
Council Chair Rapozo: I mean no disrespect to you as the former
mayor or Mayor Kawakami, but the first budget submission, to me, is the wish list.
That is the wish list and I hope it comes with expectations that the council is going
to make some adjustments and not, "This is the budget, take it or leave it." I have to
COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 27, 2024
believe, and Mayor Kawakami has been very open and collaborative, as well as
Councilmember Carvalho, meeting with the councilmembers before the budget and
making sure that our needs were met. I think it will be a good process.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It is even more important to hear from the
public, so do not wait until May 14th when we have the public hearing, start sending
us your ideas, suggestions, concerns regarding the budget, and anything specific
regarding the tax rates, what have you. That is why Council Chair was sponsoring
these town halls that went into the community before budget, it was primarily to hear
from our citizens, our constituents on any particular concerns they had. This is the
time of year to address them, possibly.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion on the floor is to schedule a public
hearing for May 14th at 5:00 p.m.
The motion for Resolution No. 2024-13 be ordered to print, that a public
hearing thereon be scheduled for May 14, 2024 at 5:00 p.m., and that it
thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole, was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR MOTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 7*,
AGAINST MOTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — O.
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2024-14 — RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND
THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI TO ENTER INTO
AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF HAWAII AND
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH FOR A LOAN FROM THE STATE WATER
POLLUTION CONTROL REVOLVING FUND FOR THE RESIDENTIAL
CESSPOOL CONVERSION PROGRAM (COUNTY OF KAUAI RESIDENTIAL
CESSPOOL CONVERSION PROGRAM 1), PROJECT NO. RCCOOKA-01
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-14,
seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Roversi. This is an exciting day.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 27, 2024
ADAM P. ROVERSI, Housing Director: Aloha, Council. Adam Roversi,
Housing Director. The Resolution before you authorizes the County to enter into a
loan agreement with the State Department of Health to provide up to two million
dollars ($2,000,000) to administer a cesspool conversion program for qualified Kaua`i
residents. It is based on a Council ordinance from two (2) years ago that authorized
the program and set out the parameters for the selection of recipients, which itself
was based on the Department of Health proposed criteria. Once this Resolution is
approved, assuming that it is today, we will also be coming back to you one (1) more
time for review and approval of the final loan agreement from the Department of
Health that contains indemnification provisions and other various sections that
require direct Council approval. There will still be one (1) procedural step beyond this
and then hopefully soon thereafter, we will be able to open our website application
process and begin selecting potential candidates.
Council Chair Rapozo: Has those parameters already been set up as
far as...or does that happen after this?
Mr. Roversi: No. That is preexisting in the Ordinance.
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct, okay.
Mr. Roversi: And it makes reference to
various...University of Hawai`i maps and zones, and I think there are six (6) or
seven (7) different criterias, I do not have them all.
Council Chair Rapozo: No, no, this is what we have been waiting for
a very long time. A lot of people have been asking, so when you come back, the next
step you said will be for the loan application?
Mr. Roversi: It will be the final loan agreement.
Council Chair Rapozo: Agreement. And at that point, I guess, maybe
you can do a presentation on the process.
Mr. Roversi: We can talk more about the project details
and selection criteria.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, perfect. Are there any questions?
Councilmember Cowden: Two (2) years ago the funding was supposed
to be for all the islands, and we were the only island willing to take it. Is the two
million dollars ($2,000,000), if other counties want to do it, will we share it out?
Mr. Roversi: From my most recent conversations with the
State Department of Health that we are the only county moving forward with this
program for the upcoming fiscal year, that does not preclude other counties from
attempting to get a "piece of the pie" in the future.
COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: What we also were happy about is if we now
can go find grants or other funding sources to come in here because two million
dollars ($2,000,000) divided by forty thousand dollars ($40,000) or fifty thousand
dollars ($50,000), which is about the cost, it is about forty (40) or fifty (50) septic
systems.
Mr. Roversi: It will be a drop in the bucket for the number
of cesspools that need to be converted on Kaua`i.
Councilmember Cowden: So, this is kind of trying to start a vector. We
will have to be looking for more money just in case for people who were not there, for
the discussion, because the two million dollars ($2,000,000), if we set something up,
that is good, and then our sister islands transfer what we do, then we will have a
smaller amount. Thank you for being on the tip of the spear of making this work.
Mr. Roversi: It is a slow tip of the spear.
Councilmember Cowden: Tip of some other type of tool.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you for all you do, Adam. I had a
question about the qualifications. I am very interested to know if you came up with
a plan on where we are going to be putting sewer in the next five (5) to ten (10) years
across the island, because this is going to affect many homes that are waiting to get
their conversion process going. If you are going to get sewer lines in there within the
next five (5) to ten (10) years, are you taking that into consideration? Are we going
to put sewer in Kekaha? Are we going to run those lines into the Waimea Treatment
Plant, which cannot take those homes or are we going to spend our money to convert
the Kekaha homes into septic and in ten (10) years, we are going to sewer? Do we
have a plan on where we are putting sewer, where we are not going to put sewer, and
does part of the equation include who qualifies for this grant?
Mr. Roversi: To get into the details, I would have to confer
with the Wastewater Division, because I am not charged with the designation of
sewer, but the Ordinance that Council set up to select candidates for the program,
prioritizes people who are outside of designated sewer expansion areas. Therefore, if
you are a homeowner in an area designated for sewer expansion, you would get less,
a lower level of preference for one of these potential sewer cesspool conversion loans.
My very preliminary understanding, and do not hold me to this, is that there really
are not sewer expansion areas designated currently. The Wastewater Division is
preliminary focused on upgrading current systems. I am aware that there has been
discussion partly connected to the Housing Agency's project in Waimea, on the
Waimea 400 property, bringing in a sewer line to Kekaha, but that is just in the very
initial stages. I cannot make any representations of whether that is going to happen
or if it is feasible or how much money it would cost. I do not want to misspeak by
providing anything other than that vague information.
COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember DeCosta: I understand. But you are in charge of this
program and you are in charge of validating who gets on the list and who does not,
and who gets the share of the pie and who does not. Being that said, I think it
is...what is the word I am looking for? Not very akamai of us not to have a sewer
plan in place, so we know which people should get the help and who should not. We
should work with the Administration and get that sewer treatment scope across the
island planned out.
Mr. Roversi: As the way the Ordinance is set up, the
Housing Agency will be dependent on the Wastewater Division to present us with
their sewer expansion plan.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have asked for that. We are going to be
getting an update, but I agree I do not think they have a sewer expansion plan in
place. I do know that when they went to the Department of Health for the vertical
expansion of the landfill, one (1) of their requirements was to establish that sewer
conversion plan. I am assuming that they are working on that, but the bottom line is
it not going to happen anytime soon. Again, I am the realist, right, I am the "Debbie
Downer," but that is the reality. A lot of people can benefit from this program. Is it
going to be a one-time payment and we just pay out or is it going to be some sort of
revolving fund where we can possibly offer low interest loans to people, where I can
borrow the forty thousand dollars ($40,000) and payback into this fund or is it just
that we got two million dollars ($2,000,000) and when we issue out these checks, it is
done.
Mr. Roversi: The way the program is structured is that the
Department of Health is allocating up to two million dollars ($2,000,000) for a set
period of time. The funding is only available for that period of time and it will not
come to the County as a lump sum check. The funds will...the County will process
the homeowners and selections. The funds will be provided directly to the homeowner
from the Department of Health as a reimbursement check once the cesspool
conversion is completed and has been inspected, certified, and...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Roversi: ...received its final letter of completion from
the Department of Health. The Housing Agency is a practical matter, it is not going
to get a big check and have a bunch of money sitting in the bank to hand out. The
Housing Agency will only be the processor of the applications and the selection will
be provided as on ground inspections of the work happening to ensure compliance,
but the money is going to come from the Department of Health to homeowners, we
will use the entire two million dollars ($2,000,000) if we have that many applicants
who can use it quickly. After the Department of Health's expenditure period, which
is two (2) years from the date of commencement, if it is finished, those funds are gone
and we would have to reapply again and enter into another loan agreement for a
different fiscal year.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i: In there somewhere is criteria to help the
problem areas, right? For example, if there is a property close to the coast that is
somewhat faulty...but the bigger picture for the environment and the island as a
whole, you want to address the problem areas first, right?
Mr. Roversi: Correct. The Ordinance refers to a priority
conversion areas, which I believe are based on the University of Hawai`i study of
existing high concentration cesspool zones. If you live in one of those high
concentration zones, I recall that Koloa is one (1) area, but I do not remember the
others off the top of my head. I can bring in all the information when we come back.
That is one of the six or seven criteria and then there is income requirements and
array of other categories.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: When you mentioned the Koloa area, it
worries me a little bit because there is a lot of transient vacation rentals (TVRs) in
that area, and they have cesspools. Are they going to qualify as easily as a residential
with a cesspool, because they are in an environmental zone that we need to fix right
away? Will they be a priority as residential versus the TVR person?
Mr. Roversi: I believe this prioritizes resident occupied
homes, but I will need to go back and refresh my memory reading through the
Ordinance again. I can bring those details when we come back with the loan
agreement.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you.
Councilmember Kuali`i: If I remember correctly, there are different
criterion and then maybe there are points assigned to each criterion, the points add
up and you go to the ones in that sense.
Mr. Roversi: Correct.
Councilmember Kuali`i: That is the most fitting.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to testify?
Mr. Lindner: Jeff Lindner, for the record. I support this if
is about fairness, but I am not clear what developers and what land gets to
participate. I am assuming Ag land is sort of out, right? Ag land does not get to
participate in this. Yes. Certain communities does not have Urban zoning, in fact
very little Urban zoning has been created boundary amendments by the State for
thirty (30) years, that is just general...maybe one (1) or two (2). Nothing has
happened, so without anything happening on that end, then there is not a lot of land
to develop, so you have to look at from that end. How are you going to get more land
to participate in it, right? Most of it has been sitting there for thirty (30) years and
you have to understand why, but that is another issue...why has no one done
COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 27, 2024
anything? Then, when it goes back to the businesses get to participate or they get
priority on those housing, how is it that Kapa'a does not have any Urban zoning, so
should you not say that we need Urban zoning in communities, because the entire
thing is connected together. If there is no Urban zoning, communities are going to be
left out of it.
Council Chair Rapozo: I do not know if the requirement is Urban
zoning. I believe it is Owner-Occupied and it has to be a cesspool conversion, so it is
not for the development of a project. It is for those who have a cesspool in those areas
that have been identified that creates the most impact to the environment, those get
the priority.
Mr. Lindner: I see.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is how I understand it. I could be wrong.
Mr. Lindner: What are the areas?
Council Chair Rapozo: I have not seen the Ordinance, but I am
assuming that it is in there, and we can get that for you.
Mr. Lindner: So, it is not that it is undeveloped, it is for
people who have houses, it is not raw land?
Council Chair Rapozo: No.
Mr. Lindner: Oh, I see.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is for people who are converting from a
cesspool to a septic.
Mr. Lindner: Okay. Is this is a credit?
Council Chair Rapozo: No, it is a reimbursement.
Mr. Lindner: Okay. It is different than the other credit I
was talking about for new development.
Council Chair Rapozo: No. Is there anyone else wishing to testify?
BRUCE HART: Although I see the benefit...Councilmember
Kagawa and others have expressed that if we upgrade from cesspools to septic, and
then sewer comes along, then in the case where the owner paid, they would just have
to pay again to upgrade to sewer. The money that comes to this program, does it not
ultimately come from the taxpayer? I just want to point that out. Yes, I can see the
benefit of this program, but I also see that taking my perspective from what has been
discussed to Council, if we go to sewer, this is going to be a waste. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 27, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? If not, Councilmember
Cowden.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: My memory is that we had a handful of
categories, like maybe ten (10) or something like that, and there was a ranking. Just
for clarification for the last two (2) testifiers that might benefit from understanding,
my memory is, is the type of person who might be at the front of the line is one of
those whose cesspool cap has collapsed. We have people in our community where
theirs has collapsed. We have people who are living thirteen (13) to fifteen (15) people
into one (1) house and they pump their cesspool constantly. They live right next door
to people who are impacted by that. We had stories of people who are having to pump
it out themselves and dump it somewhere. This was a problem that is a lot bigger
than just a few people who would benefit by getting it. The prioritization would be in
that direction and if they lived near Fuji Beach, there are a number of cesspools close
to waterways. There was a formulation and effort that went into...if you can help
forty (40) houses per year, you are going for the ones that not only help them, but
help the rest, is my memory, as we have this list and how you would prioritize it.
Certainly, the people who could not afford it, I received a handful of calls from people
who wanted to do this. I explained that to them and they said, "Well, you know what,
I can afford it, I will pay my own and borrow money." It is not that easy to go through
the entire process for applying. I think this is going to just be something to start with.
It is going to go to those most needing and then when more money comes in, we can
expand it. It is a drop in the bucket and hopefully a really needed bucket who has to
get it fixed.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, drop in a bucket. Especially, with the
prices going up. I know Councilmember Kagawa has been working on this with the
Legislature for several months now about that State law that mandates the
conversion, but provides two million dollars ($2,000,000)—that is crazy. If they are
serious about moving this project along, then they should be funding it seriously. As
far as Mr. Hart's question, Mr. Roversi made it clear. The sewer expansion program
is really what the safety net to prevent that from happening. I would guess that, and
again, I am a realist, I do not see sewer rising happening on Kaua`i for quite a while,
just the way it works. It took two (2)years to get this Resolution. To get sewer systems
on this island, to get through all of the public, the bureaucracy, the environment
regulations is going to be awhile. It all starts with the wastewater or sewer expansion
plan, which I expect to get from the Administration hopefully soon. Then, Mr. Roversi
folks can make a better determination of where the priority should sit, because I agree
if you are getting sewer in the next five (5) years, then why would you invest sixty
thousand dollars ($60,000) into a septic system, which is going to have to convert to
sewer in the next five (5) years. Thank you, Councilmember Kagawa for taking the
lead on that. Do you want to share what you found? The 2050 deadline is going to
come sooner than later. It seems like a long way, but I would expect that deadline to
hit before we get any new sewer systems on the island. I am just being real.
COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kagawa: It falls in line with what you have been saying
with the Wailua Sewer Treatment Plant with all the problems that we face there,
why are we dumping millions in there when it is in a tsunami zone, it has obviously
run its life. We are doing major fixing of something that is old and dilapidated. To
look at this item and to see that it is for in the name of water pollution control, and
you keep mentioning, Chair, this is a septic tank, this is a cesspool. The only way to
really control water pollution is septic, so why dump hundreds of thousands and
millions of dollars into something that we know is not fixing the water pollution?
Thank you.
Councilmember DeCosta: I have been working with the State a lot
behind the scenes, and I will tell you what I found out. I found out that the State
likes to come up with regulations and laws and they expect us to abide by it. Where
are all these people who have homes, nine thousand (9,000) homes with cesspools is
going in, in 2050, when they just cannot do the upgrade. Realistically speaking, they
cannot do the upgrade. I have a friend right now who wants to put a small room,
10x10, exercise room in their home and they cannot, because the State says they are
adding a livable bedroom. It is not a livable bedroom, State, it is a room to exercise.
They hold our local families by a regulation that does not apply to our County. Our
County does not see it as a livable room. A livable room means someone will live in
the room. If no one lives in the room, it is an exercise room, it is a music room, it is a
room to store your children's toys. Why is the State making these recommendations?
I say, "Go build your room and have the State prove to you that it is a livable room,
because the County will not inspect that room." The County will not go to your house
and tell you if someone is living in there or not. Come up with more of your silly rules,
State.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anything else? If not, the motion is to
approve. Roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-14 was then put, and carried by
the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2024-15 — RESOLUTION REPEALING RESOLUTION NO.
2023-02 AND AMENDING RESOLUTION NO. 2023-26 RELATING TO ADOPTING
THE RULES OF THE KAUAI COUNTY COUNCIL FOR THE ORGANIZATION OF
COMMITTEES AND THE TRANSACTION OF BUSINESS
COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-15,
seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Is there any discussion? I was informed that there may be an amendment.
Councilmember Cowden: I have an amendment, but I would like to...as
we discussed both Friday and Monday, I would like to defer this Resolution, because
it has problem elements that need to be strengthened. I would prefer to do this after
budget or up to the middle part of budget, so that we can work on it in a constructive
way.
Council Chair Rapozo: I will leave it up to the Council. This is
basically the starting point. Not too long ago, there was an issue with a city and
councilmember that made national news and there was a resounding call of the
community, "How dare you folks let him stay on and continue to pay him," the
recurring response from the Council and the Administration at the time was, "There
are no provisions for this body to discipline or take action on councilmembers that act
outside of their scope or duty." That is what I heard. I was not on the council at that
time, but I kept hearing that. When I got back in a year ago, I had the discussion
with the County Attorney and with our staff that we need to amend that and
everything takes time. This is the starting point. This is allowing this Council to be
accountable or requiring this Council to be accountable for actions they take for this
council and future councils. I do not support a deferral. There is an opportunity for
us, if you have concerns, we can fix it, but I do not see the need to defer. Unless it
requires major overhaul. If that is the feeling of this Council, I will definitely support
it.
Councilmember Cowden: Would I ask you questions or the County
Attorney?
Council Chair Rapozo: If it a legal question, then I would suggest you
ask the County Attorney.
Councilmember Cowden: Can we ask him to come up? I am on page 18
of the agenda, or page 17 is where Rule No. 13 starts. County Attorney Bracken, can
you show me where this Order and Decorum rule would be able to be utilized if
someone say was incarcerated or somehow not likely to be able to come back on the
Council? What piece of this actually addresses that?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MATTHEW M. BRACKEN, County Attorney: Matt Bracken, County
Attorney. You would have to look beyond this amendment. This amendment allows
Council as a body to process complaints for breach of decorum, rule, or policy. These
rules actually...I do not have the entire rule in front of me right now, but they do
outline attendance and so if a councilmember was not in attendance in accordance
with these rules, then the body could then essentially sanction that councilmember
in accordance with this process.
COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: Is the only place...this here does not address
that, because I looked really hard, because I was told that this would help with that
situation.
Mr. Bracken: It does, you could adjust it with that situation,
but you would have to look at the attendance requirements as well in a different
section of these rules.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, so then when I look in here, because I
am trying to pull up my documents on this, when I...
Council Chair Rapozo: Let me just say subsection "F" is very clear. It
says, "...all Councilmembers shall always conduct themselves with dignity, courtesy,
and professionalism." I think if you go out and get arrested, that violates the rule of
professionalism. "E" covers pretty much anything that...in the scenario you provided.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for calling attention to that,
because when we were going through that, because I was on the Council when that
was happening. We were told that did not...the only way that what our existing rules
are would be if the violation happened on the Council floor. It did not expand to
anything off the Council floor. If you are out in the community, it would not expand
to that.
Mr. Bracken: Correct, that is the way that the rules were
written. They only allowed sanctions if the conduct occurred in the body's presence.
Councilmember Cowden: Where does this change that?
Mr. Bracken: This allows the body to take action for any
breach of order, decorum, or policy. Therefore, when you are taking about rule, you
are talking about these rules, you are talking about policy, you are talking about any
County policy, so any violation of County policy could potentially be...you could go
through this process for any violation...
Councilmember Cowden: So, that would be a criminal action, not on the
floor?
Mr. Bracken: Ah...
Councilmember Cowden: Because it says, "complaints for breach of
order, decorum, rule or policy," how does that apply to a criminal action, not on the
floor?
Mr. Bracken: You would go back to the rule, like what I
initially said, so, the rule, there are attendance requirements, so that councilmember
stopped attending because they were incarcerated, right? Then, you would use the
lack of attendance as the basis for a complaint and the nonattendance of the meeting,
and then you would use this process to then sanction that member.
COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: So, that very simple element. Let us talk
about this, when we say, "All Councilmembers are to conduct themselves with
dignity," how do we define dignity, courtesy, or professionalism? That seems like
subjective terms, and this is for an objective element.
Mr. Bracken: Typically, when a term is not defined, when
we are looking at contract or rule, if a term is not defined, you go by the common
definition of that term. For instance, "dignity, courtesy, and professionalism," I would
say those are pretty commonly understood terms, but if you do not understand them,
you would look for a common dictionary definition and that is what you would follow.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, let us look at this other thing,
"discriminatory, harassing, or disrespectful behavior." Are those not subjective also?
Mr. Bracken: Again, those are...this is kind of what you
come back to look at County policies, again. County policies do not allow for
discrimination, they do not allow for harassment. Disrespectful behavior—that
probably does not violate a County policy, but you know...if it is not a bad thing to
prohibit, but you are talking about terms that are defined well in County policies.
The County has a policy on harassment and discrimination, you can go there and look
at it. I would say there are quite a few resources.
Councilmember Cowden: Would the range of that be maybe if you used
the wrong tone of voice, say you used the wrong tone of voice when you were talking
to someone, could that be interpreted as harassment or creating a hostile work
environment, if you used the wrong tone of voice? Am I harassing you right now with
this tone of voice?
Mr. Bracken: You are just asking me questions.
Councilmember Cowden: But could that be said? There is such a broad
range, do we ever have on the floor here of people stating they feel discriminated
against or testifying right there?
Mr. Bracken: Not that I recall.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I recall we hear it regularly and the
word is bigotry, misogyny, et cetera. When I look at this, this looks to me like either
we can have complaints almost weekly at least once or twice per month, so I am just
wondering these are so vague that on the continuum, I know personally I did not feel
offended on regular basis. I do not complain because I do not think it is going to make
a difference. I do softly complain, and it does not make a difference. I am wondering
is this saying someone has to write it up every week to have a pattern. This to me
seems so vague, it can either be...you should not bother union counsel if you cannot
take being abused on a regular basis or it could be someone being so subtle...what
my experience is, is the process is punishment. This here would make people have to
pay for their own attorney, whatever it might be, is pretty difficult because it is very
open ended. I could go down on each item, because I do have an amendment that I
COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 27, 2024
can do ad seriatim. Should I go down each one? For example, I will just do one (1)
here, seven (7).
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you still have questions for the County
Attorney?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes. I am asking him.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Cowden: "Sanctions. If the Councilmember is found to
have violated any laws, rules, policies, regulations, or ethical standards, appropriate
sanctions shall be imposed. These sanctions may include 'but are not limited to'," that
is so open ended. "...to reprimand, censure, fines, and suspension from office without
pay for not more than one (1) month," so "not limited to," what does that mean?
Mr. Bracken: That means this body can do a variety of
things, any of those things, really.
Councilmember Cowden: But it says they are not limited to, so does that
mean...I mean that could mean a lot of different things, does that say you cannot
vote, be on a committee, what does that mean?
Mr. Bracken: It could mean various things. Whatever the
body finds to be appropriate in the situation. I would not say it is without limits. The
suspension without pay is related to one (1) month, and you need a supermajority
vote for that. This is laying out possibility.
Councilmember Cowden: This is laying out possibilities. There is one
that says...I am looking for the one on timing.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Can I ask a question?
Councilmember Cowden: Sure.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Basically, the thing about laying out
possibilities is, you need...and this is probably standard language that exist in
different parts of Human Resources (HR) and what have you with union contracts, it
is because obviously it is based on the degree of violation or how severe. The
severeness of the example of the councilmember who was in jail and still collecting a
paycheck, that is pretty severe, right? But yet, even for just a month's worth of
suspension, it takes a supermajority and only after public meetings, and what I think
you are saying is, this process does not exist anywhere. That is why we could not do
anything about the councilmember that was in jail, because HR while they can deal
with employee issues throughout the County, no one is our boss, the public is our
boss, correct? That is why for that councilmember in jail, it only could be addressed
in the next election, unless someone in the public initiated some sort of legal recall
with the Department of Elections with signatures, but the fact that our election
happens every two (2) years, which is fairly quickly, that is how it worked out with
COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 27, 2024
that. This process instead would make the Council have the ability to do a service to
the public, which would have been to stop this councilmember in jail from still
collecting a paycheck. Is that correct?
Mr. Bracken: That is correct. This just establishes a process
that did not exist prior. The rules did not allow for any of this prior. This is based on
rules from the City and County of Honolulu. This is not novel by any means.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is a process, like you said. A process that
never existed, which should have existed a long time ago. I am criticizing myself
because I was on this Council for a very long time and never did this and it is process.
It is a simple process that allows this Council to take care of business that no one else
can. We do not have bosses, supervisors, or anyone to hold us accountable like
Councilmember Kuali`i said. I am the Council Chair, but what does the Council Chair
do? The Council Chair controls the agenda and runs the meeting. I do not have the
authority under existing rules to do anything other than what I just said. It is a
process. If we need to change the process, if there are issues, then we will have the
discussion.
Councilmember Cowden: Is it correct that O`ahu City and County of
Honolulu has districts for each of those councilmembers?
Mr. Bracken: That is my understanding, yes.
Councilmember Cowden: That is my understanding as well. Here, all
seven (7) of us are at-large, which I think is actually a good program, but we basically
are running either with or against each other, so that is different than O`ahu, correct?
Mr. Bracken: From my elections and running for election
perspective, yes.
Councilmember Cowden: It is incredibly, significantly different.
Sometimes those of us that are like in the fifth (5th), sixth (6th), and seventh (7th)
position can often feel like a competitive forum in here when there is the type of back
and forth. Is it correct that we have had in the past councilmembers sue the County
because of how they felt treated right here on the floor or have left?
Mr. Bracken: I am aware of prior lawsuits by
councilmembers. They were before my time, so I am not familiar with the details of
them.
Councilmember Cowden: Well, we did. And so when I look at this, can
you think of a better methodology than when it has to go to the Council Chair...I am
not slamming the Council Chair, I am looking at what is in the future and the past.
If someone does not get along with the Council Chair or if they do not get along with
the majority, we had a testifier, I do not know if my colleagues read...he did a good
job, Carl Imparato's testimony, he did a very good job of highlighting...did you see it?
Mr. Bracken: I did.
COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: He did a good job of highlighting how hostility
and bias can happen on the floor here. Sometimes, I do not think our Council is as
badly of what I have seen in the past, but there can be like a 3:4 vote, that is
constantly always the case. If you are in the three (3) and not the four (4), it is easy
for someone else to say, "File a complaint because they do not like your tone of voice."
Is that true?
Mr. Bracken: This establishes the process to handle
complaints, which is needed. If there are complaints, there should be a process.
Otherwise, Council as a body has to make up a process. If one does not exist, we have
to make one up anyway, because we have to handle the complaint, whether there is
a process or not, complaints have to be handled. It is a matter of having a process in
place or not having a process in place, and making one up or not making one up. If
you have to make one up, I am largely going to follow something like this. If a
complaint is filed, someone is entitled to due process, an investigation, which is what
this establishes. This establishes a process and is a public process, so it is something
that can be viewed by the public. The entire imposition and sanctions, again, that is
happening in open meeting, right? So, you are talking about a very public process,
which should protect any councilmember...if you are worried about false complaints,
the process itself should protect you from that, because it is public.
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden: So, let us look at that for a moment, when it
is on the floor and everyone is talking, if someone says, "There is a complaint against
someone," for what is relatively small issues, such as tone of voice, maybe frustration
of not being to handle the process of getting a piece of paper in, something like that,
the person who is accused then cannot sit there and say, "Well, can we do a
comparative and look at all the rest," right? I feel like what this does is, it causes us
to sit there and bicker and do dirty laundry right on the floor. It does not seem like a
constructive or positive way of doing it, because I do not believe this is about an
incarcerated person. If this was about an incarcerated person, we could be much
more specific. There is a lot of breaches of decorum that could be much more specific,
so that is what I have with my amendment, but before I move to amend and look at
it, I would really want to defer this for...not in the middle of budget.
(Councilmember Bulosan was noted as present.)
Councilmember Cowden: We just got it, and I have been asking, and I
was hoping, I felt that I had heard, but apparently not, that the idea to move this out
a few weeks so we can really look at it would be respected. Are there executive session
pieces here? Are we going to sit here and talk about a councilmember and how they
tend to express themselves or how much they say, "Born and raised here," to say who
is not born and raised here? How petty do we get?
Mr. Bracken: In regards to executive sessions, they
typically are handled on a case-by-case basis because those are exceptions.
Everything should occur in an open session. In the limited circumstances that does
not occur in open session, it can occur in executive session and there are very few...
COUNCIL MEETING 55 MARCH 27, 2024
statute allows for executive sessions for a very limited amount of things. Can I say,
"Would complaints be handled in executive session," I cannot really definitely say
that, it would have to be on a case-by-case analysis.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Bracken: If, for instance, something happens on the
Council floor, if you want examples, if something occurred on the Council floor, there
is no reason whatsoever why any discussion would be in executive session, because it
happened in public, the public already saw it. That is why it has to be a case-by-case
analysis.
Councilmember Cowden: So, what if it happened at a conference or on
a research effort where we are going out and meeting with constituents? What if it
happened in a different environment and it is a pretty gross violation? Where does
that happen? Does that happen right here?
Mr. Bracken: Again, it is on a case-by-case analysis of what
the complaint is and who needs to be protected, right? Executive sessions are
generally meant to protect some form of information, so what information needs to be
protected?
Councilmember Cowden: I would like to move to amend...
Councilmember Kagawa: We have questions, too.
Councilmember Cowden: I am sorry. Okay, thank you.
Councilmember Kagawa: Could this take care of complaints from
councilmember to councilmember?
Mr. Bracken: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: How would the vote be, though? Would those
two (2) be recused from the vote?
Mr. Bracken: The way it is currently written is the person
being investigated would be recused from the vote.
Councilmember Kagawa: The person being investigated. So, the person
accusing would be able to vote?
Mr. Bracken: Currently.
Councilmember Kagawa: And then you would need a supermajority,
because 3:3 is no decision, correct?
Mr. Bracken: Depends. If you are talking about sanctions...
COUNCIL MEETING 56 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Kagawa: Committee of the Whole, right?
Mr. Bracken: Committee of the Whole then Council as a
body to impose the sanction, but the supermajority would be the suspension for one
(1) month. That is the only time you need supermajority.
Councilmember Kagawa: Even at the full Council, the person being
accused would not be able to vote?
Mr. Bracken: Correct.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. I was just wondering. So, it would come
with a complaint that perhaps would go to executive session, is that the process?
Mr. Bracken: Depending on what the complaint is.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. If it is privileged, privacy type than...
Mr. Bracken: Executive session.
Councilmember Kagawa: ...could go into executive session. Alright. So,
you will guide us, right?
Mr. Bracken: Correct.
Councilmember Kagawa: I think this is just...you worked on it, this is
all legal, is this done in other counties?
Mr. Bracken: Yes, this is actually based on the City and
County of Honolulu's rules.
Councilmember Kagawa: Oh, they have something similar?
Mr. Bracken: Yes. Maui County, I believe has something,
but this is based on the City and County of Honolulu's rules.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am glad it is coming now, because a few
years back I might have gotten one, but anyway.
Council Chair Rapozo: But based on the sanctions, right, the
sanctions will not happen until after an investigation is done? The investigation
would be done based on this draft or proposal, by the Committee of the Whole, HR,
or a private investigator. By the time we get to the sanction part, this thing would
have been vetted and it would not have been vetted by the Council Chair, it would
have been vetted by the Committee, HR, or a private investigator. This is the process,
again. This is a process. I am not sure what options or alternatives, we just have not
had a process and...I just think that this process is something we need.
COUNCIL MEETING 57 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: On item number three (3), it says,
"Notificatoin to the Councilmember and referral to the Committee of the Whole. If
the complaint is deemed credible, the Council Chair, or the Vice Chair if the
complaint is against the Council Chair, shall notify the Councilmember in writing,
providing them with a copy of the complaint and an opportunity to respond within a
specified time," now that seems really crazy vague to me—"specified time." What
specifies that time? Is it something long that might say, maybe the (inaudible) the
budget, because we do not have time to do that, so then in that whole window of
something like the budget, maybe that person is not allowed to function in a normal
methodology? That seems real vague. Is that normal?
Mr. Bracken: It is normal to give a...when a complaint is
filed against a person, it is normal to get an opportunity to respond and a period of
time to respond, right? So, this would be mostly controlled by the investigator. If the
Committee of the Whole is doing the investigation or referred to HR or a private
investigator, the investigator is going to determine the amount of time. They have a
complaint, they have a window of when they are trying to get it done, it is COW, they
have other things going on, Council business, they will say, "Okay, we will give this
amount of time." It is going to be a reasonable amount of time. It is not going to be
like we got the complaint yesterday and you need to prepare a statement by
tomorrow." The private investigator is going to try to get it done within a specific
amount of time, too. Depending on the seriousness of the complaint, you cannot let
it go on forever as well, so they cannot say, "Okay, you have four (4) months to
respond," because that is not reasonable.
Councilmember Cowden: So, it is all arbitrary and not measurable right
now, and so having seen investigations last for close to two (2) years on something
not strong, I think like what we are seeing at a national level, the process is
(inaudible).
Mr. Bracken: The process is a reasonable thing, right?
Establishing a process for this is reasonable. Giving someone a copy of the complaint,
an opportunity to respond to it, that is reasonable. Let us say the time was too
narrow, typically you just ask investigators for additional time. I read too many
investigations in my time with the County to know that people asking for additional
time in complaints get it. They have an opportunity to respond. This is built into it.
Number five (5) is an opportunity to present evidence in a defense, right, so when you
are giving a complaint, an opportunity to respond to it, that is your opportunity to
present defense. That is the reasonableness, this is due process. We are setting up
a process to handle complaints.
Councilmember Cowden: Why do we put a rule in here if it says if there
is a strong criminal violation somewhere else, and why is it not in here if that is the
purpose of writing this?
Mr. Bracken: This was written to address all complaints.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, all.
COUNCIL MEETING 58 MARCH 27, 2024
Mr. Bracken: It is supposed to handle all situations. This
was not written just to address one (1) formal councilmember that went to jail for
violating laws. This is meant to handle everything.
Councilmember Cowden: This is just not easy for me to at least to see
how that is.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I can help Councilmembers along. It will be
very difficult for me to vote to punish a councilmember. You can pretty much count
my vote against...but I am for the process. It is like, when they said, "No drinking in
the parks," we saw less drinking in the parks. We did not want to catch anyone. We
just wanted to see alcohol not so freely brought into stadiums, parks, what have you.
For me, hopefully the rules will curb whatever complaints had been coming out. I am
voting for this for the staff. To have something in place, which the City and County
of Honolulu and Maui County both have. I pray to God that we do not get any of these
on the agenda, but I hope overall happiness of the work environment improves. That
is where I am at. I am not voting for any amendments. I am good.
Councilmember Cowden: Did you see the amendments?
Councilmember Kagawa: I do not need to.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there further questions for Matt? If not,
Matt, you might want to stay there, because there might be a reason to call you back
up.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Councilmember Cowden moved to amend Resolution No. 2024-15 as circulated,
and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
Councilmember Kagawa: Always.
Councilmember Cowden: I am going to do it ad seriatim.
Council Chair Rapozo: Can we get the amendment, please? Do we
not have it yet? Okay. Let us take a recess until we get the amendment.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 12:00 p.m.
The Council reconvened at 12:11 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 59 MARCH 27, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden has chosen not to
introduce her amendment, but I do have an amendment that I am going to be asking
Councilmember Kuali`i to introduce. I received an email from Councilmember
Cowden about her concerns about the subjectivity of the language, so can you
introduce the amendment?
Councilmember Cowden withdrew the motion to amend Resolution
No. 2024-15 as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is
attached hereto as Attachment 1. Councilmember Kagawa withdrew the
second.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to amend Resolution No. 2024-15 as circulated,
and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 2, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: In a nutshell, can you explain it?
Council Chair Rapozo: It just further defines the "dignity, courtesy,
and professionalism, refraining from discriminatory, harassing, or disrespectful
behavior." The original "E" has been taken out and added is, "Decorum means all
Councilmembers shall always conduct themselves in a respectful manner. This
includes refraining from using disrespectful language, making personal attacks, or
engaging in disruptive behavior that detracts from the orderly conduct of the
meeting." I am hoping that will be sufficient. Is there any discussion?
Councilmember Cowden: I have a question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Cowden: Does appropriate decorum mean only when
we are in meetings or is this when we are not on the property, how would we know
where it is? If we are at a conference or somewhere else, or is it only on the floor? So,
it would not be in an office when we are talking...
Council Chair Rapozo: The intent is to just be limited to just
to...which is the problem we have right now. Everything is limited to actions that
occur at the County Council Meeting. I believe the intent for "E" is, "...or engaging in
disruptive behavior that detracts from the orderly conduct of the meeting," is one (1)
circumstance, separate. The "...disrespectful language, making personal attacks, or
engaging in disruptive,"—Matt, maybe you can help me with the question.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Bracken: Correct, when you are looking at"F" now, that
was meant to encompass all situations, whereas "E" and "decorum and order," is
really about how the meeting is being run, events that occurred in the meeting. Order
is eliminated, decorum is more defined and it includes conducting orderly meeting
and all those things that are inappropriate in a meeting.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 MARCH 27, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: When someone is being really inappropriate
off property, is that in here at all?
Mr. Bracken: It would be "F."
Councilmember Cowden: Would that apply to a conference or an offsite
event?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Mr. Bracken: Correct. "F" is meant to encompass...
Councilmember Kagawa: Professionalism.
Mr. Bracken: ...it is professionalism, it is meant to
encompass situations where you are acting as a councilmember and you are expected
to be professional, or you are not acting, you are a councilmember. Carrying out your
County duties, I would say.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there further questions for Matt? If not,
thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion on the
amendment?
Councilmember Kuali`i: Do you not still have to say the part about...I
might be missing something, "All Councilmembers are to conduct themselves,"
because you eliminated that.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is on "F."
Councilmember Kuali`i: Oh, so it is after you said decorum.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. "F" is basically the old "E".
Councilmember Kuali`i: The old"F" had the word decorum in it, right?
And so you just pulled it out and put it ahead of how we conduct ourselves? I guess,
you just defining it earlier as opposed to later.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Are there any further questions on the
amendment? Roll call on the amendment. The motion is to approve the amendment
as circulated.
COUNCIL MEETING 61 MARCH 27, 2024
The motion to amend Resolution No. 2024-15 as circulated, and as shown in
the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 2 was then put,
and carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST AMENDMENT: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL—0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: We are now at the Resolution as amended. Is
there any further discussion before I take public testimony?
Councilmember Kagawa: I feel like we gotten a free pass for a while.
This is my nine (9) years on, and I think when you have a rule in place to check our
conduct, now it is more incumbent upon us to make sure we watch, and it should
suffice to all of us. Everyone knows that I have a temper, I have strong beliefs about
what my job is to do here, and then we have a lot of pressure from the outside coming
in. For those of you who want to run for Council, dealing with those pressures are
something you better consider, because it comes hard on you at times. People can say
whatever they want, but having these rules in place to make sure we think twice
about letting the anger side of you take over and just keeping things real, because
now there are rules in place that can bring light upon your actions. I believe in the
Council. Whether we agree or disagree, over the past nine (9) years, it would take a
strong action to get four (4) of your colleagues to vote against you, because we all
know the stresses that come to the job, but again, having something in place that
ensures there is some accountability and a process there that if you do cross that line
and there is a process in place that makes you think about your actions. I am satisfied
and will be supporting.
Council Chair Rapozo: Before I open it up to the public, because
Councilmember Kagawa, you brought up a good point. The fact is the intent...we are
all elected, we do not have bosses, the people are our bosses. This is a tough game we
play. I hate to use those terms, but that is basically the easiest way to describe it. We
got to have some thick skin in this political arena. You see it at every level; local,
state, county. The entire purpose for this process was not for councilmembers, but
was really to protect our staff that sits in here everyday and that is in this building
and to offer this process so that we can ensure they are protected. I heard a lot of
discussion today, but this was not really...it does apply to councilmembers, but for
me, it is more for our staff. That is the motivation for putting this process in place.
Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to say I really value working with all
of my colleagues, I certainly value our staff very much. On Kaua`i, they say it is one
(1) or none females in office, and I think there is a reason for it. What I experience on
a regular, I think is not a conscious way of speaking to and about women, but it is
really uncomfortable on a regular basis. That is also for people who come and testify.
COUNCIL MEETING 62 MARCH 27, 2024
It is also very difficult...like right now, I am the only member of Council that was not
born and raised here, and for good reason there is a lot of pressure between the flown
here and the ground here. People who have generational history here and being
pressured out, so are people who have moved here, but we have an infinite amount of
people who moved here, and a very finite amount of people who have longer the
generational history, the more that there is an effort to protect them. I think my
colleagues would agree that I work very hard to protect that community. When we
get pressure from the outside, and because I often will be the one to be expressing
myself trying to represent the small...I am one (1) of seven (7) to represent people,
who might be female or who might have moved here, which is the majority of the
island, by the way, that hostility is what I feel on the floor. It is stressful. And so
when I go back to work on something and if I am stressed, I am really thankful that
the taxpayers have given me and some of us our own staff members, so we have people
to sit there be able to talk with now and be able to get help from, and have some sort
of balance. But if there is no room to be able to say, "Hey, I am hurting," and if it
makes anyone uncomfortable, I am sorry. There is no room for us without our own
personal staff that all the other counties have, to be able to have anyone that has your
back and anyone on your team. I just want to say, Councilmember Kagawa, thank
you for having my back. I appreciate you for doing that. It is tough. I will support the
amendment, but I am still very disappointed and feel that in general, this Resolution
basically codifies what feels like bullying.
Council Chair Rapozo: I do not know. I am not going to get into that
debate here. I think, though, I am a little confused because I think for all the reasons
you just expressed, I would think you would support the process so that it could be
addressed in the proper venue.
Councilmember Cowden: I just do not think it is the proper venue.
Council Chair Rapozo: I did not take public testimony. Is there
anyone wishing to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. Not to toot my
own horn, but in this instance, I feel I have to talk to you in a somewhat personal
way. I also an aware that when I testify up here, I make a best effort on my part to
do so in the same manner I would if I was sitting in one of these chairs. I am in
agreement there has to be a process. I am not sure that any Councilmember disagrees
that there should be a process. I think we learned that the last time with a
councilmember who was unable because they were charged with a crime, they could
not be here. There are other issues. There are issues between councilmembers and
councilmembers. There are issues between councilmembers and staff. Those times
whenever a councilmember is operating in their capacity as a councilmember whether
here on the floor or out in the community, and there are times they are just people.
There is nothing abnormal or out of the usual about that. I equate this Council
somewhat like a family. Word of God says to be angry but sin not. It is our right to
be angry, but when you cross a line, then it becomes sin. Sin has consequences. There
are a whole lot of people that think it you go to God and said, "Lord, forgive me," then
COUNCIL MEETING 63 MARCH 27, 2024
he forgives you and it is all over. He will forgive you, but there are often consequences
and I think that everyone here is mature enough to acknowledge that. We have to
behave in a manner as Councilmember Kagawa was saying...I made a joke a long
time ago, politics in not for the faint of heart. I think that Councilmembers are used
to getting hits that are unjustified. Some of them often are justified, but I think that
is all a part of what we have to live with. I think that for the most part this Council
behaves properly. There are times whenever we lose our temper, I have, I am guilty
of that also. We have to be forgiving. We have to remember whenever we lost our
temper, but then in the realm of reasonableness, there is a point of which we all agree
that was uncalled for. This is something that we deal with on a daily basis on our
personal lives and our profession lives. Having said all of that, I do not see that there
should not be a process. I believe there should be. I also want to give a warning, I
have had to deal with governmental processes in my life in the last few years,
especially last year, and it should not go just around and around and accomplish
nothing. It should not give the appearance of doing something while accomplishing
nothing.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thirty (30) seconds.
Mr. Hart: Thank you.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: I would like to thank the introducers for
bringing this Resolution forward. I definitely hear the concerns and comments
regarding the change in the rules. The way I read it, I feel like it is addressing the
number one challenge in my personal preview, which is currently we do not have a
process and this will create a process. It allows us to address these issues openly and
not have to be hidden in the process. That is super important to me. I do not want
anyone ever to feel like there is no ability for them to express their challenges or fears,
because there is no place to do it. This will allow us to have that space in a proper
way, so that we can address it as humans do. I would like the edit that we provided,
the update. That better clarifies what can be addressed. Ultimately, the biggest thing
for me is my pursuit of equity and justice has mostly come from my personal
experience and I think that is a lot of how we all operate which is our upbringings
and backgrounds. One of the unique things of Hawai`i is that we are a melting pot of
different cultures, which requires a lot of concessions, and sometimes unfortunate
concessions. A process like this is in alignment with how our community functions
in a healthy way. As we grow as a community, these discussions have to be open and
available in all processes, I think, and this allows us to have these in a more formal
way so that people are protected, especially people who are wrongly affected by
injustices. I hope this empowers the people who feel that there was no outlet for
people to address issues, and that will create a better accountability within our
community, especially this one here, because this is specifically for us. With
anything, I think there will be a learning curve and I am open to learning and
COUNCIL MEETING 64 MARCH 27, 2024
adapting so this is better equitable and justice for all of us here in Council and Council
Services. Thank you for introducing this and I will be voting in favor.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else?
Councilmember Cowden: Are we speaking about the entire Resolution?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: I will say I appreciate that you are saying that
this is intended to insulate the Council Services Staff from any stress for perhaps the
Councilmembers feel, so it probably works for that, when it is saying...supposed to
be also helping Councilmembers, I think item F(2), it does not. I will be supporting
yes for the amendment, and I will be supporting no for the Resolution because I think
it is very significant what is experienced on the floor. I do not feel protected at all on
it because initiating it in an informal way has not had any real assistance. I am going
to say no to the rule, in general, but I will say yes to the amendment.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: I support the Resolution overall. We met on
the legal side of it, we met on the emotional side of it, and speaking as a
councilmember, of course, in how we can work together and support each other. The
way it is written is just another step forward. We are not going backward or staying
stable. This just gives another solid piece for me to offer that for any Councilmember,
however we have to go through our positives and ups and downs, this just gives
another layer of support, I see that as support. A lot of the things that came on
different levels, whether it is male or female, it is not about that, it is about making
tough decisions overall and going back and forth. I think it is important to taking it
to the next level with something in place, supports the staff in place, and supports all
of us as Councilmembers one-on-one to talk story. If there is any time that I feel that
there needs to be a process if something happened, this takes it to the level where it
can. We have it in place. I wanted to make sure that for me is what is on the table. I
support the entire process and I think it is a good thing to move forward.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you for that, Councilmember
Carvalho. Accountability for everyone's actions here from the Council, our staff, and
the community. When I met with the Finance Director, I do not look at it as
Mrs. Lizama, I look at her as a being a powerful woman, who is the Finance Director.
When I see the Managing Director, it is not Mrs. Reiko Matsuyama, it is the
Managing Director. When I look at the Councilmembers here, I do not see a female.
I do not look at them as males. It is a"Councilmember." We are playing the big game,
we act and accordingly to playing the big game. There are no victims here. Maybe I
am the victim. Have you ever seen when we get a lei put on, or someone dusts your
coat or tell you, "You are handsome," is that appropriate? But as soon as we put a lei
on a female, or dust her coat, or tell her she looks pretty, that is inappropriate. This
will set everything in place. I will support this. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 65 MARCH 27, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else?
Councilmember Kuali`i: This is very easy for me to support. I think it
is a fair and reasonable process where we have not had one before. I am hopeful,
because I am concerned to hear Councilmember Cowden say things like, "Hey, I am
hurting and there is no room for that to be expressed or dealt with," and I am just
hoping that she will use this process to submit a complaint. So that maybe for once
and for all we can understand what is actually happening to you and what we should
do about it, because we absolutely should.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Bullying. You also used the word bullying.
File the complaint. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? If not, I think I said
enough. Roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-15, as amended to
Resolution No. 2024-15, Draft 1 was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bulosan, Carvalho, DeCosta, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: Cowden TOTAL— 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes and one (1) no.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
BILLS FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2916)—A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO
THE OPERATING BUDGET AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2024 TO JUNE 30, 2025 (Fiscal Year 2024-2025 Operating Budget)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2916) on
first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for May 14, 2024 at 5:00 p.m., and that it be referred to the
Committee of the Whole, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 66 MARCH 27, 2024
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2916) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
May 14, 2024 at 5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee
of the Whole, was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2917)—A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2024 TO JUNE 30, 2025 (Fiscal Year 2024-2025 CIP Budget)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2917) on
first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for May 14, 2024 at 5:00 p.m., and that it be referred to the
Committee of the Whole, seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: I encourage everyone to take a look at this
budget and you will see some projects on here that we did not have a chance to
discuss. I will be sending over a request for clarification on some significantly expense "
projects that I was not aware of.
Councilmember Cowden: Oh, yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, the motion is to set a public
hearing.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2917) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
May 14, 2024 at 5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee
of the Whole, was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
COUNCIL MEETING 67 MARCH 27, 2024
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2918) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
SECTIONS 5A-1.1 AND 5A-11.4, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO REAL PROPERTY TAX
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2918) on
first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for April 24, 2024 and that it be referred to the Committee of the
Whole, seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a question, but I will save it for the
Committee. Councilmember Cowden raised this point on this bill about the ability of
this County to do retroactive tax credits or tax refunds.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Maybe we can work with the County Attorney
and see how we can apply that same process to other people who may have been in
the wrong class.
Councilmember Cowden: Just a general qualification on all of these,
because we have not received feedback from constituents that are on expensive
capital improvements, all of this, we are going to deal with it in committee.
Council Chair Rapozo: We are going to deal with it in the budget.
Councilmember Cowden: In the budget. I mean we are dealing with it
in the budget.
Councilmember Kagawa: This one is in committee.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, this is going to the committee.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, but all of these, we are going to be
working on more later.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am specifically talking about Proposed Draft
Bill (No. 2918) where it says, "...claim may also include the retroactive approval and
COUNCIL MEETING 68 MARCH 27, 2024
reinstatement of a home exemption," so for those who have found themselves
misclassified, this mechanism is available, then we should be taking more advantage
of that. Roll call.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2918) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
Apil 24, 2024 and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole,
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2919) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE, INCLUDING MATTERS PERTAINING
TO GUEST HOUSES
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2919) to the
Planning Commission, seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Hart: I waited until after discussion to get more
insight, but I want to thank Council Chair Rapozo and Councilmember DeCosta for
bringing this forward. I think this is a good idea. I think it will help and I think it might
give us some insight, all of us, into the impact that allowing more housing on Ag land
is going to have overall. As Councilmember Kagawa often says, "whatever collateral
damage there might be," and so we are going to be able look at it. I would ask with a
smile on my face that you think about two (2) off-street parking places for each one,
because I just do not think that one (1) person with one (1) car is going to live there.
Thank you.
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Seeing no discussion. Roll call.
COUNCIL MEETING 69 MARCH 27, 2024
The motion to refer Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2919) to the Planning Commission
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR REFERRAL: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST REFERRAL: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2920) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 5, ARTICLE 2, SECTION 5-2.6 KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS
AMENDED, RELATING TO BEAUTIFICATION FEES
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2920) on
first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for April 24, 2024 and that it be referred to the Committee of the
Whole, seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Councilmember Cowden: I have a question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Just confirming. The five-dollar fee is
one-time when they register every year just like everyone else?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. What this bill does is...up until now, the
rental cars have been charge one-dollar. All of the residents have been paying five
dollars ($5). Councilmember DeCosta found this while working with the Finance
Department. The original proposal was to bump the rental cars up to ten
dollars ($10), but the State law prohibits us from separating the two (2). We do not
want to raise the local fee, so we basically increased the rental car fee from four
dollars ($4) to five dollars ($5). It is not a significant increase but to think that we
were giving them a break when they created the impacts to our roadways. It is really
just to bring them up, so they will be paying the same as our residents.
Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you for working diligently with me on
this. I always thank our staff. Without our staff, I personally would not be as
successful. I also want to thank the Finance Director and the Motor Vehicle Director;
you folks are spot on in helping me. Meeting after meeting that does not take place
on Wednesdays, it takes place on our own time and you folks helped traverse this to
fruition. You folks are brains behind this. Thank you. Now, we are holding our
commercial vehicles accountable for the same price as our residents. I am appalled
COUNCIL MEETING 70 MARCH 27, 2024
that we lost all the revenue over the years from the commercial vehicles paying
one-dollar versus you, your residential car paying five dollars ($5). Like what Council
Chair says, if we could charge more, I think twenty dollars ($20), actually, maybe in
the future, but thank you to the people behind the scenes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion?
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2920) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
Apil 24, 2024 and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole,
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Can you read us into Executive Session?
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-1118 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council, to provide a briefing on the
Claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Ashley Conner on February 12, 2024.
This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties,privileges,
immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this
agenda item.
ES-1119 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council, to provide a briefing and
request for settlement authority in EEOC No. 37B-2018-00013 (U.S. Equal
Employment Opportunity Commission), FEPA Charge No. K-19973 (Amended)
(Hawai`i Civil Rights Commission), a complaint by a County employee alleging
gender based discrimination against the County of Kaua`i Department of Public
Works. This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties,
privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate
to this agenda item.
ES-1120 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4,
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney on behalf of Council, requests an Executive Session to provide a briefing on
Hawai`i Government Employees Association, AFSCME, Local 152 AFL-CIO vs.
County of Kaua`i (5CSP-24-0000001) and the status of all pending temporary hazard
pay grievances. This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers,
COUNCIL MEETING 71 MARCH 27, 2024
duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities of the Council and the County as they
relate to this agenda item.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-1118,
ES-1119, and ES-1120, seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none. Roll call.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-1118, ES-1119, and
ES-1120 was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bulosan, Carvalho, Cowden, DeCosta,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, we will take our lunch break until
1:45 p.m. Councilmembers,please report in Executive Chambers, and then we will come
out after the briefing to adjourn.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 12:54 p.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 3:03 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as excused.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Matt.
Mr. Bracken: Matt Bracken, County Attorney. Three (3)
Executive Sessions were held. The information discussed must remain confidential at
this time and so there is nothing to disclose to the public.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 3:04 p.m.
fully submitted,
JADE K. UNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
:dmc
Attachment 1
(March 27, 2024)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Resolution No. 2024-15, Resolution Repealing Resolution No. 2023-02 and Amending
Resolution No. 2023-26 Relating to Adopting the Rules of the Kaua`i County Council
For the Organization of Committees and the Transaction of Business
Introduced by: FELICIA COWDEN, Councilmember
Amend Resolution No. 2024-15, Rule No. 13 (f) to read as follows:
RULE NO. 13
ORDER AND DECORUM
(a) No person may sit at the desk of the Presiding Officer of the Council or
the County Clerk, except by permission of the Presiding Officer, or at the desk of any
Councilmember, except by permission of that Councilmember.
(b) While the Presiding Officer or any member is speaking, no one may
entertain a private discourse, nor while a member is speaking may anyone pass
between that Councilmember and the Chair.
(c) When speaking, a Councilmember shall address the Chair, with any
remarks confined to the question under discussion while avoiding discussion of
personalities.
(d) No unauthorized person may enter the floor of the Council or Committee
except by permission of the Presiding Officer.
(e) All Councilmembers are to conduct themselves with dignity, courtesy,
and professionalism, refraining from discriminatory, harassing, or disrespectful
behavior.
(f) Processing complaints for breach of order, decorum, rule, or policy.
(1) Submission of Complaints. Any Councilmember or County
employee may submit a complaint against a Councilmember to the [Council
Chair, or the Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair.] County
Clerk or the County Attorney. The complaint should be in writing and include
specific details regarding the alleged misconduct or violation.
(2) Initial Assessment. Upon receiving a complaint, the [Council
Chair, or the Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair,]
receiving party, either the County Clerk or the County Attorney, shall give the
complaint to either the County Clerk or the County Attorney, who was not the
receiver, who shall proceed to conduct an initial assessment to determine the
validity and seriousness of the allegations. This assessment may include
gathering additional information or evidence related to the complaint. If
possible, [the Council Chair, or the Vice Chair if the complaint is against the
Council Chair,] either separately or together, the County Clerk or the County
Attorney, may attempt to resolve the matter administratively.
(3) Notification to the Councilmember and referral to the Committee
of the Whole. If the complaint is deemed credible, the [Council Chair, or the
Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair,] County Clerk or the
County Attorney shall notify the Councilmember in writing, providing them
with a copy of the complaint and an opportunity to respond within a specified
timeframe[.], no less than ten (10) business days and no more than forty (40)
business days determined by the nature of the complaint. The [Council Chair,
or the Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair] County Clerk
or the County Attorney may refer the matter of the complaint to the Committee
of the Whole, to investigate, hear, and report upon the conduct.
(4) Investigation. The Committee of the Whole may investigate the
complaint, refer the complaint to Human Resources, or hire a private
investigator.
(5) Opportunity to Present Evidence and Defense. During the
investigation, the Councilmember shall have the right to present evidence,
witnesses, and a defense to refute the allegations made against them. At any
stage of the process set forth in this subsection, the Councilmember under
investigation may be represented by a person of his or her choosing.
(6) Review and Determination. Upon completion of the
investigation, the findings shall be reviewed by the Committee of the Whole.
Based on the evidence gathered, a determination shall be made regarding
whether the Councilmember violated any laws, rules, policy, regulations, or
ethical standards. The Committee of the Whole determination setting forth its
findings and recommended sanctions shall be sent to the [Council Chair, or the
Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair.] County Clerk or the
County Attorney managing the complaint. If the Committee of the Whole
sustains the complaint, the [Council Chair, or the Vice Chair if the complaint
is against the Council Chair,] County Clerk or the County Attorney shall
present the Committee of the Whole's report to the Council for its consideration
and decision.
(7) Sanctions. If the Councilmember is found to have violated any
laws, rules, policy, regulations, or ethical standards, appropriate sanctions
shall be imposed. These sanctions may include [but are not limited to]
reprimand, censure, fines, and suspension from office without pay for not more
than one (1) month. A two-thirds affirmative vote of all members of the Council
shall be necessary to suspend a Councilmember without pay.
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(8) Decision. Upon the Council's receipt of the Committee of the
Whole's determination, the member under investigation shall be informed in
writing of the findings and recommendations and be given an opportunity to
be heard at the Council meeting. The Council may, by a majority vote, dismiss
the complaint. The Council may, by a majority vote, impose the sanctions
recommended by the Committee of the Whole, or may impose some, but not all
of the sanctions recommended.
(9) Direct Conflict of Interest. The Councilmember under
investigation is deemed to have a direct conflict and shall not participate as a
member of the Committee of the Whole or vote as a member of Council for
anything related to the complaint.
(10) Nothing in this subsection shall restrict the authority of the
Council Chair as established in Rule No. 3.
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.
Amendment material is highlighted.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2024\FA to Reso 2024-15 Council Rules (FC) CNT_ss.docx
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Attachment 2
(March 27, 2024)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Resolution No. 2024-15, Resolution Repealing Resolution No. 2023-02 and Amending
Resolution No. 2023-26 Relating to Adopting the Rules of the Kaua`i County Council
For the Organization of Committees and the Transaction of Business
Introduced by: KIPUKAI KUALI`I, Councilmember (By Request)
Amend Resolution No. 2024-15, Rule No. 13 (e) and (f) to read as follows:
RULE NO. 13
ORDER AND DECORUM
(a) No person may sit at the desk of the Presiding Officer of the Council or
the County Clerk, except by permission of the Presiding Officer, or at the desk of any
Councilmember, except by permission of that Councilmember.
(b) While the Presiding Officer or any member is speaking, no one may
entertain a private discourse, nor while a member is speaking may anyone pass
between that Councilmember and the Chair.
(c) When speaking, a Councilmember shall address the Chair, with any
remarks confined to the question under discussion while avoiding discussion of
personalities.
(d) No unauthorized person may enter the floor of the Council or Committee
except by permission of the Presiding Officer.
[(e) All Councilmembers are to conduct themselves with dignity, courtesy,
and professionalism, refraining from discriminatory, harassing, or disrespectful
behavior.
(fj Processing complaints for breach of order, decorum, rule, or policy.]
(e) Decorum means all Councilmembers shall always conduct themselves in
a respectful manner. This includes refraining from using disrespectful language,
making personal attacks, or engaging in disruptive behavior that detracts from the
orderly conduct of the meeting.
(f) All Councilmembers are to conduct themselves with dignity, courtesy, and
professionalism, refraining from discriminatory, harassing, or disrespectful behavior.
(g) Processing complaints for breach of decorum, these rules, County policy, or
Council policy.
(1) Submission of Complaints. Any Councilmember or County
employee may submit a complaint against a Councilmember to the Council
Chair, or the Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair. The
complaint should be in writing and include specific details regarding the
alleged misconduct or violation.
(2) Initial Assessment. Upon receiving a complaint, the Council
Chair, or the Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair, shall
conduct an initial assessment to determine the validity and seriousness of the
allegations. This assessment may include gathering additional information or
evidence related to the complaint. If possible, the Council Chair, or the Vice
Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair, may attempt to resolve the
matter administratively.
(3) Notification to the Councilmember and referral to the Committee
of the Whole. If the complaint is deemed credible, the Council Chair, or the
Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair, shall notify the
Councilmember in writing, providing them with a copy of the complaint and
an opportunity to respond within a specified timeframe. The Council Chair, or
the Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair, may refer the
matter to the Committee of the Whole, to investigate, hear, and report upon
the conduct.
(4) Investigation. The Committee of the Whole may investigate the
complaint, refer the complaint to Human Resources, or hire a private
investigator.
(5) Opportunity to Present Evidence and Defense. During the
investigation, the Councilmember shall have the right to present evidence,
witnesses, and a defense to refute the allegations made against them. At any
stage of the process set forth in this subsection, the Councilmember under
investigation may be represented by a person of his or her choosing.
(6) Review and Determination. Upon completion of the
investigation, the findings shall be reviewed by the Committee of the Whole.
Based on the evidence gathered, a determination shall be made regarding
whether the Councilmember violated any laws, rules, policy, regulations, or
ethical standards. The Committee of the Whole determination setting forth its
findings and recommended sanctions shall be sent to the Council Chair, or the
Vice Chair if the complaint is against the Council Chair. If the Committee of
the Whole sustains the complaint, the Council Chair, or the Vice Chair if the
complaint is against the Council Chair, shall present the Committee of the
Whole's report to the Council for its consideration and decision.
(7) Sanctions. If the Councilmember is found to have violated anv
laws, rules, policy, regulations, or ethical standards, appropriate sanctions
shall be imposed. These sanctions may include but are not limited to
2 of 3
reprimand, censure, fines, and suspension from office without pay for not more
than one (1) month. A two-thirds affirmative vote of all members of the Council
shall be necessary to suspend a Councilmember without pay.
(8) Decision. Upon the Council's receipt of the Committee of the
Whole's determination, the member under investigation shall be informed in
writing of the findings and recommendations and be given an opportunity to
be heard at the Council meeting. The Council may, by a majority vote, dismiss
the complaint. The Council may, by a majority vote, impose the sanctions
recommended by the Committee of the Whole, or may impose some, but not all
of the sanctions recommended.
(9) Direct Conflict of Interest. The Councilmember under
investigation is deemed to have a direct conflict and shall not participate as a
member of the Committee of the Whole or vote as a member of Council for
anything related to the complaint.
(10) Nothing in this subsection shall restrict the authority of the
Council Chair as established in Rule No. 3.
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.
Amendment material is highlighted.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2024\Amendment to Reso 2024-15 Council Rules (2)- MB CNT_slr.docx
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