HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/13/2024 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
MARCH 13, 2024
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, March 13, 2024, at 9:17 a.m., after which the following
Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Addison Bulosan
Honorable Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr.
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Bill DeCosta
Honorable Ross Kagawa (present at 9:20 a.m.)
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Mel Rapozo
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the agenda, as circulated, was then put, and carried
by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kagawa was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
MINUTES of the following meeting of the Council:
February 16, 2024 Council Meeting
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve the Minutes, as circulated, seconded
by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony? Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 13, 2024
The motion to approve the Minutes, as circulated, was then put, and carried
by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kagawa was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, we will do the public hearing on
Bill No. 2912.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 9:18 a.m. to convene in the
public hearing.
The meeting was called back to order at 9:19 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: If there are no objections, I would like to take
C 2024-57, the Cost Control Commission Report, out of order.
There being no objections, C 2024-57 was taken out of order.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2024-57 Communication (02/21/2024) from the Cost Control Commission,
transmitting for Council information the County Cost Control Commission 2023 Annual
Report, pursuant to Kaua`i County Charter Section 28.05.
Councilmember Carvalho moved to receive C 2024-57 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Ms. Ching.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
ELLEN CHING, Boards & Commissions Administrator: Good morning,
Chair and Councilmembers. Ellen Ching, Boards & Commissions Administrator. First
off, I would like to thank the Chair, Council staff, and Councilmembers for their
indulgence in allowing us to go earlier. I have a Liquor Control Commission meeting
later in the afternoon, and I wanted to make sure I would be present. Secondly, I am a
baby-boomer, so I was brought up during the Watergate scandal. The lesson learned
there is the cover up is always worse than the initial crime, so I want to start off by
saying that for the record, I want to note that on page 1 of 5, on the fifth bullet point of
"A," it says, "2018-2019," but it should be, "2022-2023." Again, please note that
correction for the record. Secondly, the lateness of this report and another omission that
I made is neglecting to anticipate that the Council would request the Chair before you,
as a body, to answer any questions, so I neglected to put that on the agenda. The Chair,
Andre Lister, is here, however, he can only speak as a member and offer his opinion. He
cannot offer or speak on behalf of the whole commission. I apologize for that in advance
and I wanted to make sure all of those errors are errors on my part, and have nothing
to do with the Cost Control Commission or the Chair. Thank you so much.
COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. We all have been provided with a
copy of the report. We have not had one of these for so long. Typically, the Cost Control
Commission is set up to provide recommendations to the Council before we enter the
budget session, so, first of all, thank you for making that happen, because, again, that
does not always happen. I will advise the Councilmembers that the discussion is on the
report itself, and if we want to have discussions with the Administration on the different
departments for these specific topics, then we can set that up in different Committee
meetings to have more thorough discussions. I do not expect the Commission or the
Chair to speak for the Administration. This is to go over the report, which is what we
have in front of us. With that, thank you for being here, Mr. Lister. If you would go over
a quick overview, then we can proceed with some questions.
ANDRE LISTER, Cost Control Commission Chair: Okay. Andre Lister, Cost
Control Commission. First of all, thank you for having me, Chair and Councilmembers.
During the nearly one (1) year that I have been on the Cost Control Commission, I have
learned a lot about the innerworkings of our local government, the different divisions,
and gained a real respect for the individuals who serve the County of Kaua`i, because
the amount of work that goes into keeping our County moving is absolutely amazing.
On top of that, from what I have been able to gather, they do a really good job at it,
because it has been a difficult task to identify areas where there might be an
opportunity to cut costs. This report represents several areas where we felt that there
might be an opportunity for the County to cut some costs or become more efficient. First
and foremost, the first item relates to the cost of processing the real property taxes. As
a brief overview, we all, or at least a good number of us, have to pay property taxes
every single year and there are multiple ways of doing that—we can go in and pay at
the department in-person, mail them in, or have it automatically withdrawn from our
bank accounts. The summary of this is that we feel that we can maybe increase the
number of users who elect to use the Automated Clearing House (ACH), which is sort
of like direct deposit. For those who receive paychecks or social security, it comes as a
direct deposit into their checking accounts. The other side of that is true. It would allow
individuals to pay through an automated process through the website with a reduction
of the paper process and the processing. There is a substantial cost associated with the
physical processing when people pay their taxes in-person and the multiple steps that
are involved with taking that payment—processing that payment, generating reports,
and depositing that payment into the County's account—versus doing it electronically.
Through an electronic process, it is automatically taken out of the account, deposited
where it is supposed to go, a report is generated, and then a manager can then balance
that report against the numbers. That can save a significant amount of time.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Lister: If you look at the amount of manpower hours
that are required to process physical payments, there could be quite a reduction. I think
where the holdup that we identified could be is that currently, there is a cost associated
with using the ACH system, or paying online. There is a fee associated with using that
service. For us...I apologize for not having the exact dollar amounts in front of me on
this page...but the cost that individuals must pay to use those electronic services versus
the cost involved in processing physical payments has a difference. If we can encourage
our residents to use the electronic system, it could result in a large cost savings to the
COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 13, 2024
County, as a whole. One of those things, which I understand...I do not like going to an
automatic teller machine (ATM) and paying the ATM fee, so I play ahead. I go to the
bank before I go to Las Vegas and pull the money out, rather than pay eight dollars ($8)
as an ATM fee. I think that we may be able to encourage the citizens to use this service
more if it were to be free. That is item number 1. Would you like to ask questions on
item number 1 prior to going onto item number 2?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, we can do that to expedite it.
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Is the County basically just passing on the cost,
because we have a vendor that does it for us, right?
Mr. Lister: That is right.
Councilmember Kuali`i: We have to pay the vendor x amount for each
transaction. Are we just passing that on to the individual? Do we tag on anything else?
Ms. Ching: My understanding is that we are like a kiosk.
We are passing that on to the individual. At one point during the COVID-19 pandemic,
because we were in the process of trying to manage COVID-19 and not have a
congregation of people coming in to the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV), Federal
funds were used to pay the ACH costs.At that time, there were quite a number of people
who took advantage of it rather than come in to the DMV to pay the taxes in person.
Once the moneys were expended, the County had to charge the fee again, so the
numbers went down.
Councilmember Kuali`i: On your recommendation, are you saying you
recommend that the County is basically covering that cost?
Ms. Ching: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Do you have the numbers of what it would then
cost, because I know on the flipside you are also saying that if everyone was to use the
online system, you would save on the other side in staff hours and it is a much more
streamlined process? In the long run, I think it is better for everyone.
Ms. Ching: We can certainly get more detailed information
for you, but what I can tell you is at the time that the Federal funds were used, it was
about four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000).
Councilmember Kuali`i: Budget is coming up, so I think we should put
it in the budget. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: What is the percentage? What is the take on
the merchant fee?
COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 13, 2024
Ms. Ching: I do not have those figures for you, but we could
certainly get it.
Councilmember Cowden: Typically, I think it is about two percent (2%).
We should be able to get a pretty low rate. I know that I walk a check in because of that
for pretty much everything, but I am right here.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? We will get the
numbers from the Administration before the budget. I am sure this will be a budget
discussion, but I will tell you this has been a concern or an issue with many councils I
have served with, because the offset or the benefit is you are freeing up employee time.
It just makes sense. Thank you for that. Go ahead.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Process-wise, Chair, I know he is already on
page 2 and 3 with this number one issue, but he has not talked about the very first page
where it shows the real property assessed notices for the last five (5)fiscal years. I know
Ellen corrected the date, which I assumed is what it was, because the data is growing,
but you mentioned that the basic goal of the Commission being, "To reduce the cost of
county government while maintaining a reasonable level of public services." For the
first couple paragraphs, did you take that right out of the language of the creation of
the Cost Control Commission?
Ms. Ellen: It is from the Charter.
Councilmember Kuali`i: The Charter. When it says, "...eliminating,
consolidating, or reducing overlapping or duplicate County services and programs,"that
sort of makes it more specific, so is it your folks' understanding that you are only
working to identify overlapping or duplicate County services, and not necessarily the
broader goal of reducing the cost of County government, because you did not say
anything or make any type of recommendations with regard to the cost of real property
taxes and it does jump out in an extreme sort of way to see how from year to year, if you
just look at the progression right there from 2018-2019 all the way to 2022-2023, the
first year, there is a six point six percent (6.6%) increase, then a seven point seven
percent (7.7%) increase, then a one point twenty-five percent (1.25%) increase, which I
assume is around the COVID-19 pandemic, so it was not the normal increase...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Councilmember Kuali`i: ...but then the final year that we have data for,
there is a nineteen percent (19%) increase? That jumps out and I am wondering if the
Cost Control Commission has anything to say about that. Maybe you can bring it back
to them, but it is not in this report. I tried to look at the next set of data right under
that, where it is talking about the real property assessment and the number of
properties assessed. Again, in that cycle, it went up zero point fifty-five percent (.55%),
zero point fifty-seven percent (.57%), zero point zero three percent (.03%), and finally
zero point twenty-five percent (.25%), so the increase in the number of properties was
very minimal, so it is not about that increase in revenue collected for real property taxes
being about a lot more properties, it is just about everyone paying a lot more, and I am
sure it is because of assessed values. I am pretty sure the Council is looking at that in
COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 13, 2024
this budget cycle, with the Chair's leadership, he has been talking about it for a while,
but if you bring it back to the Commission, it would be good to hear from them on that.
This is just for page 1, Chair. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: What is not on page 1 is what is the Capital
Improvements budget, so for the next cycle, I would ask that you folks take a look at
that as well. I just want to say that was pretty much a brand-new Commission and I
am very impressed with the work that you folks have done in this short amount of time
with no roadmap to follow, because it is not that a new commissioner or two was picked
up. You, Ellen, basically had to restaff the whole Commission, so I think you all got a
ground view of what goes on, how this government...collective bargaining is a big reason
why our budgets increase. We know that. I agree with Councilmember Kuali`i in that
we have to start looking at programs and services that are duplicated or maybe are not
necessary, or that there are technologies that we have today that could free up
resources, so we are not asking for more positions to do things. I appreciate that aspect.
It was a very good point.
Councilmember Kuali`i: That, too, was...I really like this number 1
recommendation, because you are basically addressing the issue of how there are so
many vacancies, especially in the Department of Finance, that are hard to fill and if you
can reduce the workload with this online service, then maybe some of those positions do
not need to be filled, and they perhaps become dollar-funded or eliminated positions in
this next budget cycle.
Ms. Ching: Chair, if I may, I just wanted to introduce Alice
Luck, who is the Vice Chair of the Cost Control Commission, and I want to thank you
for your comments, because this is a very new body. I also want to point out that they
have worked very hard and they looked at anywhere from four (4) to six (6) years,
because in those past years, you had normal years, but you also have COVID-19 years,
and it did not make sense for them to look at just the COVID-19 years, because they
were really off, so to look at the big span in all of these areas was a lot of work. I really
wanted to recognize them for the work they did. Thank you for bringing that up.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I imagine that when looking at the COVID-19
years, we are looking at that crazy amount of inflation, right? The crazy amount of
inflation has been a lot for all of us to handle, so I am sure there was conversation on
how that impacted...I am looking at something on page 3, but I should wait to bring up
page 3, right?
Council Chair Rapozo: We are on the first recommendation. If there
are no other questions on the first recommendation, which is the ACH waiver, then we
can move on to the processing of real property taxes.
Mr. Lister: For the first item, we have a number of"in the
findings" and I think to Councilmember Kuali`i's comment, we met with the County
Real Property Manager, Mike Hubbard, multiple times. He was gracious enough to
meet with us over several months to give us information. Respectfully, the issue you are
COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 13, 2024
addressing of the rise or percentage increase is actually a separate issue and it is not
addressed in this. This is really just to address the issue of people bringing in a payment
versus paying it online and the benefits with that. We do not have information in this
report regarding your question or concern, but we did look at that and there are some
specific statistics, because we had similar questions to that and we would be happy to
come back and provide more in-depth answers to explain why there was that increase
there, but I would say that it was not anything we found that would be a cost savings
to the County that should have been included in this report.
Councilmember Kuali`i: At the risk of stating the obvious, I guess I am
just getting at the fact that the increase is so great and that your job is to reduce the
County government, so maybe you would recommend that we lower the rates to offset
that drastic increase. That is all. I know the Council ultimately has the responsibility
and we will be looking at that, but if you, as a body, are looking at the cost of government
services and the costs that our taxpayers have to pay that you might come back with
that. I am curious. You said you looked at this separately and that you will come back
to us.
Mr. Lister: Some of that can be attributable to resorts, so
again, that is a broader issue that you folks have to deal with, but I think if we can come
back and look at the breakdown of where those increases come from, because you are
looking at an aggregate number and not necessarily a number that is associated with
the individual parcel holders, our regular community members, and increases to their
property taxes, but maybe a change in property taxes to other places which can result
into greater revenue from visitors, for instance, who are visiting these larger properties.
I think if we can break it down and look, and include Mike Hubbard in those
conversations, because no one can explain better than he can.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: We will have that discussion during the budget
meetings.
Mr. Lister: That is perfect.
Council Chair Rapozo: I remember sitting here one year and the Cost
Control Commission came with the recommendation to raise the golf fees. That is not
the function of the Cost Control Commission.
Mr. Lister: That is correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is not to generate revenue. It is simply as
stated in the Charter. It is to look for ways that we can cut government spending. The
tax rates are set by this body and we will see where that goes when we get to the budget.
Mr. Lister: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next is your second recommendation relating
to the cost of processing real property taxes.
COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 13, 2024
Mr. Lister: This one was an interesting one. If you look at
the statistics here, you can see from 2019 and 2020, there were two hundred
seventy-four (274) appeals. That dropped to one hundred fifty-nine (159), to three
hundred ninety-eight (398) in the following year, to three hundred twenty-eight (328)
from 2022 to 2023. I would say it is a reasonable increase and decrease in the number
of appeals. It is nothing out of the ordinary from what we found. All of a sudden, from
the Fiscal Year 2023-2024, you see that number jumped by over one thousand (1,000)
appeals from the previous year, so that caught our attention. What we found is that it
had to do with some of the changes that were made in the categorization of property
taxes. It appeared confusing to a good number of folks,because you saw such an increase
in appeals. There were a number of people who ended up with higher tax bills and they
did not really understand why, and that led to the number of disputes that arose over
that. Again, that Department only has a certain number of people who are there to be
able to address these and they address every single one of these disputes and appeals.
Again, our mission to control cost is to help control how much...in some cases, if there
is a way to reduce the amount of work that goes to the limited staffing that is available.
In this one, the end result we found is if we could be clearer in the tax assessment
notices that came out, especially when there were major changes that took place that
could result in individuals being able to gain the correct information on their own and
come to conclusions on their own without necessarily overburdening the Real Property
Collections Division. In this particular recommendation, providing examples, which
does not have an added cost, of these new categories of how people are to be taxed and
through that example, showing what the new outcome or what they were going to be
paying because of these changes, providing something such as, "By going from this
category to this category, this is what is means for you," and providing more information
to our property owners.
ALICE LUCK, Cost Control Commission Vice Chair: Something that I
always keep in mind is that public communication...
Council Chair Rapozo: Could you please state your name?
Ms. Luck: I am sorry. Alice Luck with the Cost Control
Commission. Something that I always think about is with public communications, they
say it should be at a sixth-grade reading level, so I think it is really challenging to do
that with government, with all the jargon that we have, and whatnot, but I think we
need to make an effort. As long as it passes muster with legal, we should change some
of the jargon to make the information more understandable to people of all educational
levels. That is what we found.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Lister, in the number of appeals, were you
folks able to get a number of how many of the appeals were resolved?Was that provided
to you all?
Ms. Luck: Yes, but I do not have it offhand.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, I do not want to put you on the spot.
COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 13, 2024
Mr. Lister: They do go through every single one of those
appeals, I do not know what the percentages are, but the majority of those, if not all of
them, are either dismissed, rejected, accepted, or in a lot of cases they will come to some
mutual resolution on how to resolve that issue. I do not know what the individual...do
you remember?
Council Chair Rapozo: We can get that. It is very difficult to win an
appeal with the way that statutes are set up, but that is not a cost issue in the sense
that it is our issue. One of my suggestions to the Real Property Assessment Division
was to send these notices as certified mail when it impacts a change or will impact
someone's tax bill. Is that something you folks discussed as an option?I know that adds
cost, but like the ACH charges, on the other hand, it frees up so many appeals because
we will know what they got their notice, then the defense or the reason for the appeal
is, "We did not get the notice."
Mr. Lister: We did discuss the issue of making sure
individuals did receive the notice. Again, and you are correct, we cannot recommend
anything that would add a cost, but I think Mr. Hubbard's response to that was, "That
is a very small amount of individuals who file appeals or say they did not get it."
Council Chair Rapozo: That is because when they filed the
appeal...the reason for an appeal is, "I did not get the message," is not an eligible...do
you know what I am saying? Everyone who contacts me about issues is the fact that
they never received the notice. They cannot file an appeal because I never got the notice.
You can only appeal the assessment value or certain things, right?
Mr. Lister: I think that would be a question for Mike.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have already asked him. He says it is too
expensive. It is like the ACH recommendation that you did, right? Potentially, that
comes with a five-hundred-thousand-dollar cost, but the savings on the backend in staff
time is the benefit to the County and I think that definitely falls within the Cost Control
Commission.
Mr. Lister. I think you would then have to send out a
certified notice to every single property owner on the island of Kaua`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is for when their classification changes.
Mr. Lister: When the classification changes?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, when it is going to impact them. If it will
not change, then...it is for when changes occur in a class.
Mr. Lister: I understand.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will definitely have that question as well
during the budget meeting.
COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 13, 2024
Mr. Lister: That could be a good idea.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Was there any consideration on the timing? I
do not know how much you look at...I would love to see the paperwork. Is it possible for
us to see some of the breakdown because it would help us with our policy? Is there a
breakdown that we can see on how or when you are observing this? Did you folks have
a spreadsheet or something that you were looking at?
Ms. Luck: We have extensive documents.
Councilmember Cowden: If it is possible, I would like to see it. It might
be able to help policy. On timing of when this recommendation for the notification goes
out because the time to get that notification is before September, and I think that we
give that teaching in December, so by the time December rolls around, it is already too
late. Again, this is a policy issue, but so many of this equated to people losing their
homes, losing their rentals, or moving out. This was all very difficult. The timing on
when it is even proposed, we did a major change then, we dropped in 2019 and it took a
couple of years to happen...what was a Residential Investor amount from two million
dollars ($2,000,000) to one million three hundred thousand dollars ($1,300,000), and
then we had heavy inflation in the COVID-19 window, so it was unexpected. That is
why we had that problem. We are possibly going to have another problem, because we
have profound changes coming up this year, so the example, the timing...did you folks
discuss the timing of when to give these recommendations? Okay, because I agree with
both of the recommendations, but timing is everything. Knowing you already blew it
does not help as much as if you know before you turn in your paperwork in September.
Ms. Ching: One of the things that was presented to the
Cost Control Commission was the notification that was sent out this year. That
notification went out December 1st, and what became really apparent to the Cost
Control Commission is that the notification had great information about all the
different types of exemptions, when the due date was, and everything else, but it was a
lot of information on one (1) page. That is why you have Vice Chair talking about how
that information is presented and the language that is used in the information. When
you get a whole front and back, legal-sized page and maybe another page, so you have
maybe three (3) pages of documents chock-full of information, it is a lot for people to
digest. That is why I believe that the Commission came out with this. If we have it more
piecemeal and in bite-sized pieces, maybe it will be more impactful and easier to
understand.
Councilmember Cowden: I understand that and agree. I am just saying
we need that out three (3) months earlier, probably four (4).
Council Chair Rapozo: We need to do a better job with that notice. It
is like the notice you get when you buy a new cellular phone or you rent a car. No one
reads it. They just sign it or throw it away, and I think that is happening a lot. Even for
those that read it, it is very hard to understand if you are not in that arena.
COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 13, 2024
Ms. Ching: To be fair to the Department and the Division,
they are looking at process, and what is efficient and cost-effective for them as well, so
one (1) mailing with everything on it, so that is understandable.
Council Chair Rapozo: Again, the cost on the backend in the way of
appeals costs money and we have to make it so that people understand. We need to.
What does the first thing on the form say? This is not a bill. Guess where mail marked
as "This is not a bill" is going? It goes in the rubbish can because I do not need to pay it.
I am talking about the general public, not the government workers who are familiar
with the real property tax system. I am talking to new homeowners, to a brand-new,
young, local family who just bought a house and they get this thing. If they do not
understand what each of those...you need to be clear and you need to make sure that it
gets to them. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Is there any evaluation across departments,
too, because when I think about what it costs when we have one thousand four
hundred (1,400) appeals, we still have others that do not appeal? How many people lose
their houses? Is there any place where corollary goes? Do we have a burst of housing
assistance requests? Is there a chart where we look at how our real property tax and
inflationary pressures go against displacement, because that is where the real cost is?
If we are able to get an extra twenty-six thousand dollars ($26,000), but we have to pay
another five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) to build a unit for someone,
incarcerate them, or have employees from the Department of Parks & Recreation going
down to push them out of the parks, the social impact cost, pressure on drugs...we are
going to have a drug conversation...pressure on all of that is a lot more than just
losing...and I would also like to see how many assessors we lose, because that is not a
fun job either...to go in there, and when we have eight hundred fifty-five (855), because
we dropped a bunch of them off, but we still have eight hundred fifty-five (855) before
the Board of Review, those folks cannot be out there doing quality assessments, which
is really their job. They are in there disappointing a tremendous amount of people who
are at risk or have had to toss their tenants. I think to do real cost control effectively,
we have to not be so laser focused when we do not look at what the downstream
consequences are. Is that against the rules of how the Cost Control Commission works?
Can you do that or can you not do that?
Council Chair Rapozo: Let me answer that. It is not against the rules.
The Cost Control Commission pretty much has the latitude to do what they want, but
as I have said before we started, those types of questions go to the Administration. As
far as how many assessors were leaving, that is an Administrative issue. That is a
question that we should be asking the Administration.
Councilmember Cowden: Can I respond to that?We do ask it, and we are
still asking from department to department, so my understanding and my appreciation
of having Cost Control Commissioners...and I learned some of it from the Chair when
he was interviewing you...you folks are a check and balance, so if we just look at the
two percent (2%)...I think it is about two percent (2%). I think it is roughly that for
using the card. We can look at that little thing, that is good, and that is a simple one,
but this next one with the instructions really stretches across about three (3) or four (4)
different departments in terms of what the consequences are, so if we are only looking
COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 13, 2024
at how many hours are saved, whether people just give up before they try, because that
is really when you understand it...you are going to give up before you try...what we
really want to do is save stability in our people. If we want to be pragmatic about it and
how much money it saves us, it saves us money in multiple departments, so this was
the first year, but I am at least bringing it out there that we have to look across
departments. When we look at one (1) department at a time, they are trying to get their
own kuleana together. Their job is to "bring home the bacon". Their job is not to house
all the people who lost their homes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Your recommendation really is to provide more
information to taxpayers. Mission accomplished. Our job is to make sure that happens.
That is how this system works and that is what we plan to do. It is not like we have not
discussed it before. Many times, I know the Administration was very apprehensive for
doing these types of things, but that is why we have a Cost Control Commission that
comes here. In fact, in the Charter it says the Cost Control Commission sends the
legislation across so we debate the bill. I appreciate this. Again, this is year one (1). I
love it, I am impressed, and I thank you folks, but the way it should work is along with
the report comes a bill which would waive ACH fees, a bill that would require the
technology or whatever to better notify. That is how the system would work. Trust me,
I think you folks have done more than I expected, and that is a compliment, because
this is really a good start, but the power of the Cost Control Commission lies in that
ability to send the bill to this body without interference from the Administration and
let this body go through the process to determine if it will pass or not. That is the power
of this Commission. I look forward to year two (2), if I am here, but I agree with both of
these recommendations, and we will take the ball and run with it. We will, and it lands
wherever it lands. Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you, Chair, for your leadership. Ellen,
you are such an asset to the County and I always try and listen to what you tell us and
tell me, and I heard you say it costs a lot of money to do registered mail and that you
look at the Administration's side. I will not disagree,but I know that the most important
thing in my family is to pay three (3) big bills. The biggest bill is my property tax,
because if I do not pay that, we cannot live on the property. That is every homeowner's
concern. Number two (2) is to pay for the college tuition of my sons, otherwise they
cannot attend college. Do you know what just happened on my phone yesterday? I got
a text message from Butte College that the financial aid package is ready and you can
apply. If you do not want to apply, please reply"Stop" and this message will stop coming
to your phone. Otherwise, you will receive a message every couple of days. I also had a
phone call from my tax preparer who said, "You have been our tax recipient for the past
few years. This is H&R Block, we would like to do your taxes again this year." The last
one was my home insurance. I received a text message that my home insurance is due.
How hard is it if the County could get some type of County registered phone number
from the real property tax owner and send a text message four (4) months out that says,
"Your property tax is due.You have an increase. If you do not want this message, please
type `Stop.' If not, we will send you another message in thirty (30) days?" Believe me,
they will read that text message. I am just trying to help, right? We need to help each
other. We need to help our people and people do not want to pay...I do not mind paying
one hundred dollars ($100) more in property taxes, but if I need to pay five thousand
dollars ($5,000) more in property taxes, then I want to receive that text message early
COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 13, 2024
on so I can figure out how I can cancel my Disneyland trip, buy my wife her birthday
flowers, ring, or whatever it is I will buy for her, because I need to put the money
towards property taxes. I think that is a solution and I am just throwing it out there.
Council Chair Rapozo: Again, I will repeat that is what they are
saying. Their recommendation is to provide more information to taxpayers. In the
discussion with the Real Property Assessment Division...I think Jenelle was in that
discussion...that did come up and they are checking on the ability of our existing
Information Technology (IT) Division or our electronic abilities to determine if we can
incorporate sending text messages to the people. I think that is the one, because you are
always with your phone;you are not always with your mailbox.Again, that is the beauty
of this report. Now we get to see what we can do to make it better. They are exploring
text messaging. I think that is a real key part of notifications. Are there any other
questions?
Councilmember Cowden: It is at the bottom of page 4 of 5. I will not make
it a long question. Where it says, "The Commission reviewed and discussed the following
matters," you have a chart of things that you...good job.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden: I am assuming that you reviewed it, but you
picked one (1) item—real property tax because you felt that is where you could make
the most impact, right?You picked one (1) thing that you could handle.
Mr. Lister: That is correct. If we were able to identify cost
savings in every single one of these categories that we reviewed, we would have put it
in this report. It was not that we were limited to two (2). These were two (2) that we
found to be impactful.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Lister: We were unable to find any specific cost
savings, at least in the information we looked at, and found that they were being run
efficiently per the information that was provided.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Can we have them back at a different
time or some other way? I see that you are highlighting important things, like our
vacancies. I will just say it. Maybe if we paid people better...I am just saying...that
might make a difference. I know that is sort of out of your kuleana, but you can still
hold that. The expense of disposing abandoned vehicles...we know when we push it up
that we need the State to help us with their processes, but I appreciate what you looked
at. We go through angst over it.
(Councilmember DeCosta was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Year one (1) is done; year two (2) begins. If
Councilmembers have any specific items that they want the Cost Control Commission
to look at, please send it over to them, because now your work starts over in preparation
COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 13, 2024
for the next year. You folks have a good foundation, you folks have spoken to a lot of
people, and I agree, the low-hanging fruit...it is very hard with the time you folks are
allotted to go through everything thoroughly, and I appreciate the thorough part of it to
make sure that by the time it gets here, it has been pretty much been vetted and it is a
real cost savings recommendation. Again, if any Member has something they want the
Cost Control Commission to look at as it relates to cost savings, duplication, and things
like that, please send it over. Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: This is a great conversation, but reinforce the
need in your recommendation...Chair said it, everyone said it. The more information
we can get to our people, the better. That is the bottom line, right? I support whatever
makes it more accessible, whatever options come forward, or whatever we can do to
support that effort. I think that is a big one right there without getting into all the other
things. I look forward to the discussion. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for the Cost
Control Commission members before we release them?
Councilmember Kuali`i: I have a question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Just to confirm on this whole last section, you
reviewed and there are all these bullet points of departments or areas, vacancy reports,
new positions, are you basically saying, "We looked at all of this and there is nothing
there for us to recommend or report on"? You basically told us nothing. You said, "We
looked at them all, and it is fine." I am curious as to how you looked at them. Did you
have a checklist? Did you have certain things you were looking for? I would have
appreciated some sharing of some data. For example, for the bullet point that says,
"New positions report," like you shared the dollars expended or anticipated to be
collected for real property taxes from year-to-year, maybe you could have shared how
many new positions there were in each of those five (5) years and at what cost that was
basically added to the budget, because then the reverse of that is what is true, right? If
you want to reduce the cost of government, for starters, you have to scrutinize the need
for new positions because that is adding costs. The opposite would be true and it would
have been good to have at least seen a little bit of data, and maybe on some of these
other items as well, some kind of summary data on what you saw and why you have no
recommendations, rather than just a whole list.
Council Chair Rapozo: I thought I heard you say earlier that you were
not aware that you would be coming to the County Council.
Ms. Ching: That is correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: Again, and that is why I am very mild, because
this report was not prepared to be presented at the County Council.
Ms. Ching: That is correct. Again, I will say it is at no fault
to the Commission.
COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Ms. Ching: What I did was use the previous reports as a
template and just followed that template. In hearing your feedback, the next report will
certainly have a lot more "meat" on it. I would look at this very differently and I would
appendix all the information that the Commission receives so that you can see the same
information that they received and looked at.
Councilmember Kuali`i: My thing is just that having a summary report
from you wherein you are sharing what is important and it saves us the time from
having to go back at...you had five (5) meetings, I am sure you spent hours on it,
everyone worked really hard...rather than to read the minutes from those meetings or
watch those meetings...I do not know if those are televised, but in a report it would be
good to just have the summary. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I will ask again. Can I have whatever you can
send me? That just helps me be prepared for the budget. I appreciate the work. I am
not scolding, though I agree that next time I really want good information, but I still
want the information. If I could look at it, I am the type who is willing to look at it.
Shout out to my staff. I have staff now who can help me look at it.
Council Chair Rapozo: When you request something, make sure it is a
specific request of what you want to see. They will not send over everything. Be specific
of what you want to see.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I will do that. I will send it over.
Council Chair Rapozo: If you want to see information on the appeals...
Councilmember Cowden: I want information particularly on the appeals.
Council Chair Rapozo: We can get that from the Real Property
Assessment Division. That is where we get it from.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let me just say this, because I am looking at
Andre and I know Andre from pre-Commission days. Andre, I know how hard you work
and I know how hard this Commission has worked. I get to see Paul Pancho every week
at Pop Warner, and he says, "Wow. My God." Every single bullet point on this
"Commission reviewed and discussed the following matters" are bullet points that we,
as the County Council, should be looking at as well.
Councilmember Cowden: We do.
Council Chair Rapozo: We cannot expect the Cost Control Commission
to do our job. If we have an issue...there is no one more critical on positions than
COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 13, 2024
Councilmember Kuali`i. This individual takes the budget, takes every single position,
and goes to every single department head and asks, "What is the status of this position?
Do you need this position?" We have dollar-funded many positions because of his
analysis. My point is the Cost Control Commission, again, looks for the duplication of
services and cost savings for the County. When you look at new positions, yes, I think I
would agree that if there is a new position that is being proposed and it is duplicative
of what we already have, I would expect to see it in this report,but again, in year one (1),
you folks have the entire County to look at. What one (1) topic has this body heard more
complaints about this year than property taxes? We have issues in every department,
but the loud and most impacting complaints for me...I speak for myself...was the real
property tax, the increases, and how people are having to contemplate whether or not
they need to sell their property. Councilmember Kuali`i pegged it. It is because we
collected more from the same people. It is not because we had another one hundred
percent (100%) increase in property purchases. The parcel count is pretty much the
same. I appreciate the information because these are two (2) measures that we can take
relatively quickly. Now it is up to us to have the "grapes" to put it in a bill and put it out
to the Mayor to sign into law. I do not want to discourage the Commission, because the
last thing I want is to get a notice from Ellen tomorrow saying you now have four (4)
more vacancies in the Commission. I am serious, because as I stated when you came for
your interview, this is the most important commission as it relates to what we do here
on the Council. This is a great start and I am sure you are thinking, "Oh my God, we
have different work in the next year," but that is cool.
Ms. Luck: I will take the mittens off.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is great. I think this is exactly the
direction that we should be headed.
Councilmember Cowden: Can I reframe my question much more simply?
Ellen, is most of the pertinent information that I am asking for present in the minutes?
If I went through the minutes, would I find most of that?
Ms. Ching: Can you be more specific about what want?
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to look at the numbers that were
looked at. The minutes...can I?
Mr. Lister: To give you an overview, when we request the
information, Ellen contacts the department heads saying, "We would like for you to put
together reports regarding this specific information," they provide that information
back to Ellen, and we get a packet, that is sometimes this thick, to go over for the
meeting. It could be Excel Spreadsheets, so going back for five (5) years' worth of
information are Excel spreadsheets on legal that you are going through...
Councilmember Cowden: The short answer is no.
Mr. Lister: You will not find it in the minutes, but the
information exists.
COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 13, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to know before I go looking for it. I
am hearing that I cannot ask for it.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is not what I said. You continue to...that
is not what I said.
Councilmember Cowden: I guess it is because you got cut off.
Council Chair Rapozo: I said, "When you ask, you ask specifically." I
did not say, "You do not ask." I also said that if you have questions on appeals, ask the
Real Property Assessment Division, not the Cost Control Commission. Their job is done
for year one (1). Their job is done. Now, we take these recommendations, we bring the
Real Property Assessment Division up here and ask them, based on your appeals...
Councilmember Cowden: Alright. I do it all the time. I do that regularly.
Council Chair Rapozo: I do not like being mischaracterized or
misquoted.
Councilmember Cowden: I do not either, so let us let it go.
Council Chair Rapozo: I said, "If you want something that is based on
this report or need more information, you send it, but be specific." That is all I said.
Ms. Luck: My recommendation would be to look at the
documents and it will require some explanation, so look at the portion of the recording
where Mike Hubbard or whoever explains the documents.
Mr. Lister: I would say a lot of the real value and the
information that we were able to gain was not necessarily from the documents that we
received. Yes, it is in there, but it was the explanation that was given by the expert who
appeared in front of us to explain what that information meant. We are happy to send
over the spreadsheets or whatever information, but...
Councilmember Cowden: It is fine.
Mr. Lister: I think the value that you will get from it is
having a conversation with a department head that can explain what to look at.
Councilmember Cowden: It is fine. Thank you. I have no other questions.
Council Chair Rapozo: Does anyone else have any questions? If not,
thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Mr. Hart.
Mr. Lister: Are we done?
Council Chair Rapozo: You are all done.
COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 13, 2024
Mr. Lister: Mahalo for the recommendations. We will be
sure to make those changes for the report next year and come with more.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, sir. Thank you for your work.
BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. I do not think I
have ever seen the Chair so pleased in the whole of Council. From what I have heard...I
have not seen the report yet,but I am also pleased. I just want to thank Ellen for helping
put together the report and the Chair and Vice Chair for doing such a good job. Any
time we can cut costs, any time we can eliminate a repetitive position, all of that is so
important. The budget is coming up, it is just around the corner, and I am sure this is
going to help. Again, thank you to the Cost Control Commission, the entirety of it, I
encourage them to continue, and to Ellen and to the Council, thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else wishing to testify? If not,
is there any further discussion? Seeing none.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to receive C 2024-57 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried (Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of
Kauai, Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be
recorded as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. We will take the caption
break now. It will be ten (10) minutes. We will be back at 10:30 a.m.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:18 a.m., for a caption break.
The meeting reconvened at 10:30 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Can we have the next item, please?
SPECIAL ORDER OF THE DAY:
Resolution No. 2024-12, Draft 1 — RESOLUTION URGING THE 2024 HAWAII
STATE LEGISLATURE TO OPPOSE SENATE BILL 3335, SENATE DRAFT 1,
RELATING TO CANNABIS
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-12, Draft 1,
seconded by Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: This Resolution is back on the agenda. Two (2)
weeks ago, we had the Resolution on the agenda. After much discussion and debate, it
ended in a three (3) to three (3) vote, because Councilmember DeCosta was traveling.
By our rules, the item shows up on the very next Council meeting as the Special Order
COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 13, 2024
Of The Day. I appreciate your patience. We had to take care of other things before we
got to this. The Resolution is back on the floor. Before we start the discussion, I made
some comments at the last meeting regarding my perception of Attorney General Anne
Lopez, copying and pasting this bill together. I think most of you know that sometimes
my passion gets the best of me and that happened two (2) weeks ago. I said comments
that I should not have said. It was inappropriate because I said, "I guarantee that bill
was written by a cannabis lobby." Again, that was the passion overtaking the common
sense of my brain. For that, I want to publicly apologize to Ms. Lopez and the
Department of the Attorney General, because that was totally inappropriate. I hope
that she can forgive me, because, again, in this line of work, you live in a fishbowl and
everything you say and do is seen by someone. I am human, I make mistakes, and that
is a mistake I wish I could take back, but cannot. For Ms. Lopez and the Department of
the Attorney General, I apologize. I will be sending over a written apology as well so she
understands that it was something that I should not have said. Councilmember
Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: In that letter, she also highlighted my
seconding that it was that way. I want to say we had a really good email back and forth,
even at 9:00 at night, and I got really good answers from her, so I want to thank
Ms. Lopez for doing a very good job at meeting my concerns. I apologized in my email
as well.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, I will keep my comments short,
because I think I said enough at the last meeting, but I did want to add a few more
comments that was triggered by the letter that I received from Ms. Lopez at the
Department of the Attorney General. I have a couple of slides that I want to share with
the public and my colleagues, because I think it is important that when you look at the
structure of government, the Department of the Attorney General is the top law
enforcement office in the State. Her office participated in the drafting of the bill based
on a report that they put together. It was a very thorough report that was submitted to
the Legislature as part of the bill debate. She references the report in this. The report
is available online, and again, the report was generated and submitted to the
Legislature with the bill that the Attorney General drafted. These comments came right
out of the letter that she sent to me a few days ago, and I just wanted to read it. It says,
"The reason my Department worked so hard on a final draft bill is because any cannabis
legalization is fraught with very serious risk." I am glad the Waimea High School
students are here today. Thank you for joining us. We will have you folks up in a little
bit. I appreciate that you folks are here and I ask you to engage in the discussion. "...any
cannabis legalization is fraught with very serious risk." This is coming from the
Attorney General. "The Report," that I just mentioned, "...details just some,"just some,
"of these risks: federal illegality," it is still illegal under federal law, "...the continuation
or growth of the illicit marked," which I have been talking about for a very long time.
Remember, these are not my words. These words are from the Attorney General.
"...increased prevalence of driving while high," she did not make this up, this is what
the data shows, "...and concerns regarding public health and the protection of children,"
Attorney General Anne Lopez. "The length of the draft bill," which is over three
hundred (300) pages, "...is a function of the care required to combat these dangers as
best we can, including by drafting new provisions that will provide law enforcement and
prosecutors with tools for addressing high driving, " I like the way she said, "high
COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 13, 2024
driving." It is driving while stoned. "...and increasing criminal penalties," sorry, Anne,
if I misspoke, "...and increasing penalties for those who distribute cannabis to children,"
which is in the bill.
She goes on to say, "While I believe Senate Bill (SB) 3335 is well drafted and
researched, reasonable, balanced, and focused on protecting the public welfare, the
Report makes clear: `Experience from our sister states show that there are no easy,
surefire solutions to these problems'," which she talked about in the earlier slide, c"...if
solutions exist at all."' The Attorney General is saying some of the problems that she
mentioned may have no solution. "I do not discount whatsoever those who say that
cannabis should not be legalized at this time and agree with much of what is said by
those standing in opposition to legalization." She agrees with most of what we are
saying, and she is the Attorney General. Again, this is dated March 12, 2024.
If you go to her report that she references which was submitted to the
Legislature, and this is what baffles me the most. She says, "...that the Department
does not support the legalization of adult-use cannabis." I will say that again, because
this is the Attorney General of the State of Hawaii. "The Department," not just Anne
Lopez, "...does not support the legalization of adult-use cannabis but will not oppose the
passage of the final draft bill, as it may be amended, so long as provision intended to
protect public safety and public health remain in the bill and provisions unacceptable
to the Department are not inserted, as set forth in Section V of this Report." I do not
how you do that. I do not support the legalization of adult-use cannabis, but she is
basically saying she is not going to oppose it. This is where I need to watch my words
carefully or I will get another letter. Politics is pilau sometimes. This Attorney General
has clearly stated that she does not support the adult-use of recreational marijuana.
She does not support it, and I agree with her, but she is not going to oppose the bill. I
can tell you right now, because I have been on councils for a long time, if I do not like
something, I will say I do not like something. I will not not oppose the bill. I will not sit
here, say, "Addison, I disagree with you," and sit back and be quiet. I will tell the world
I do not agree with you. This issue is so controversial, and I have never seen anything
like this where people are afraid to say what they want to say, on either side.Yesterday,
the Ho`okele Coalition worked to put out a sign waving out here against the legalization
of recreational marijuana, and while many people said they would show up, one (1)
person besides the Coalition and few Councilmembers showed up. It was weird because
so many people said they would come. The reality is this issue makes people afraid. I
contacted every single nonprofit organization in this State. I sent them an email with a
copy of the Resolution asking for testimony for either side. I want to hear from everyone.
Not one (1) organization submitted testimony. Do you know why? I confirmed with
two (2) nonprofit organizations. They are afraid that if they stand up and say
something, it will impact their funding from the State. Politics is pilau. You should be
free to stand up and say what you want and it should not impact your funding from the
State, but because of that pressure that is being put on our nonprofit organizations that
take care of our children...I am not talking about nonprofit organizations in general. I
am talking about nonprofit organizations that specifically work with our children, and
that is why I am so happy students from Waimea High School are here today, because
I do want to hear from you, whether your support it or not. I do not judge and do not
hold it against anyone who supports this, the legalization of recreational marijuana, but
the fact that the pressure is there for our nonprofit organizations that take care of our
COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 13, 2024
children cannot speak because it will impact their funding from the State, because our
Governor supports it. You just heard that our Attorney General does not support it.
Four (4) Chiefs of Police do not support it. Let me ask you. Who has boots on the ground?
Who are the ones with boots on the ground? I hope we will hear from the Ho`okele
Coalition today. Social workers and substance abuse counselors are the ones that I talk
to. Do you know why? It is because they are the ones who are impacted by this. If you
look at all the testimony that we received, much of the testimony that we received is
from the industry, who are the people who stand to gain millions and billions of dollars.
That is the testimony we are getting to say, "Yes, we want to make this happen." No
offense, I am an entrepreneur, but this is beyond that. This is about the health and
safety of our children and our communities. Back in 1974, a similar situation was going
on in Congress regarding tobacco. Nicotine. It was interesting, because in 1974, we did
not have all the data that we have now on the dangers of nicotine, even though the
Surgeon General made it very clear that nicotine was addictive and dangerous.
Congress had a similar hearing, they were contemplating what they were going to do
with nicotine and the laws that surround tobacco, and they had a hearing. I do not know
if any of you saw that hearing. Most of you were not even born. I was ten (10) years old,
but I got the video. Can we play that? Listen to this video. You need to turn the volume
up really loud, and if we do not have volume today, we will recess this meeting and have
IT come over. This happened the last time.
(Video presentation during discussion on Resolution No. 2024-12, Draft 1.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Could you pause it right there?I do not know if
you folks can hear that, but this is a congressman saying...on the panel were all of big
tobacco's industry leaders. They were all on the panel, and you will see them all. The
question was very simple. As the experts, the industry...which is where we are hearing
from today—the industry...please tell me yes or no, is nicotine an additive? Go ahead.
(Video presentation continues during discussion on Resolution No. 2024-12,
Draft 1.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Congress was wise enough to know that they
were all full of crap, but it is like if you bring up all the industry people and only talk to
the industry people. What if you brought up all the medical doctors in that hearing in
Congress? Do you think the response would be the same? Who would you believe, the
medical doctors or the industry? I would believe the medical doctors. I would believe
people who have boots on the ground. I would accept the testimony, but when you are
looking at the motivations of the organizations or the people who come up and testify
like that are probably all billionaires, because they stood to gain financially with easing
up on legislation of tobacco. Decades later, we are in the same situation today. I see you
shaking your head, and you are free to do so, but the statistics do not lie. The industry
will tell you it is safe. The industry will tell you it is not as harmful as alcohol or
whatever, and that may be true. The fact of the matter is the medical community is
making it very clear. I think the law enforcement community has made it extremely
clear. The fact that our people are being suppressed from being able to testify due to the
fear that they will not receive funding from the State because our Governor supports it
is tragic. It is really tragic. That will be my comments for the day. Again, I hope this
Council will support the Resolution, which simply opposes the legalization of
COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 13, 2024
recreational marijuana. They can call it commercial marijuana or adult-use marijuana.
It is recreational marijuana, because if this passes, anyone over the age of
twenty-one (21) will be able to go to the store and purchase marijuana recreationally.
This does not oppose medical marijuana. This Resolution does not oppose the hemp
industry. It simply opposes the legalization of recreational marijuana in the State of
Hawai`i. I will tell you one thing. All the advocates will come up and tell you that so
many states have already passed it. It is inevitable. What they are not telling you is
within each state that legalized marijuana...in many of those states they gave counties
the opportunity to opt out. This one does not. If this passes, Kauai is stuck with it. In
the Mainland United States (U.S.), many of the states will allow counties to opt out. If
you look at the numbers...and I should have prepared that slide, but the numbers of
counties that have opted out of the state legalization laws is staggering. It is sixty
percent (60%), seventy percent (70%), so while many states may have legalized it, the
majority of the counties have not. Last year, I believe twenty-three (23) or
twenty-four (24) states entertained legalization of recreational marijuana, and only
five (5) states moved forward, which tells me that the majority of the states, that are in
the situation that Hawai`i is in now, said no, because the data is now becoming
available. Thank you. Is there any other discussion before we open it up for public
testimony?
Councilmember Bulosan: Do you want to have discussion after or before?
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anything you want the public to know
before they testify? I want the public to understand what I just said before they testify.
Councilmember Bulosan: I will go. Thank you, Council Chair, for the
proposal of your Resolution and for the opportunity to speak before. I am in favor of
legalizing adult-use of recreational marijuana, and I really appreciate the Attorney
General (AG) sending that information and all the testimony that has come in, and that
we have a group of students from Waimea High School hanging out with us. I think this
is a very important discussion. Just based on the idea of understanding how we manage
ourselves with substance abuse and what our relationships are with things, I think it
is really important for us to have the discussion on it and marijuana allows us to really
understand what our relationships are with these things. One of the things the Council
Chair brought up is a fear of speaking up, and I feel sad that the other nonprofit
organizations and people fear speaking up about this. I felt that same fear when I
decided to speak in favor of this, and that the black and brown communities who have
been prosecuted for nearly one hundred(100)years that have utilized this as either part
of their cultural practices, or part of their adult-use as a substance like sugar or other
substances like caffeine. They feared to be prosecuted and they have been prosecuted
for a substance that has been put into a categorization that I feel has been unjust over
time and I think it is really important. The reason why I am in support of this is because
Congress was right. Congress was right to legalize tobacco use for adults and to put
necessary restraints and research so that we can understand our relationship with
substances. We need an ability in our community to not shy away from these
conversations, especially at home and in our community. Every time we swift it under
and hide it behind a shield, we run away from the challenges that we all face, and I
think it is really important for all substances, fairly, for us to have these conversations,
like we do with diabetes and sugar, caffeine and addiction, and alcohol for adults.
COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 13, 2024
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Councilmember Bulosan: Once we decide that this one thing is terrible
and hide it, but everything else is okay, we run the risk of increasing all the things that
we do not want to see. That goes for just behavior in general. If you are depressed, have
anxiety, or have fear, it is actually more important to be open, be vulnerable, talk about
it, and be engaged than to hide it and close the conversation. I think that is why this is
very valuable, and I really appreciate the Council Chair bringing forth this Resolution,
because it allows us to have this discussion so the community can really have it here at
the County level, as it is typically not at the County level. I appreciate that the State is
bringing it at the State level, because I truly believe this should be addressed at the
Federal level, like all the other substances that we experience in our community, but
this is part of what the role of government is. It is to engage our community at every
level so that we can have these conversations.
Council Chair Rapozo: Even in disagreement, we can still be friends.
Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Waimea High
School young adults, for coming. Thank you to the person who coordinated this. I believe
it was Yvette, Constituent Relations Coordinator for Councilmember Bulosan. Thank
you. Thank you, Julia, for being the teacher here with the students. I did not take a
position and I will not take a position until I listen to everyone here today. I went to
college in Humboldt County in the,`80s. It is the biggest pot county in the world. They
say the emerald forest is in Humboldt County and it is the best weed in the world,better
than what Hawai`i grows. It was illegal back in 1980, when I went to college there. I
had all my little stoner friends who could get weed. I was not considered a weed smoker
or stoner, but I did not discriminate. They were really good people. In fact, one of my
economics professors invited us to smoke a little bit of weed after our final. I did not. I
was twenty-three (23) years old and was a senior in college. I did not think it was cool
to smoke with my instructor, but there were a few of my friends who did. I did know one
thing, though, and I did learn one thing from my instructor. He did not tell us to smoke
before the exam. I had that conversation with him. As I look out amongst the students
of Waimea High School, I see some athletes. I see a star cheerleader, Mia, in the back,
I see a star baseball player...I know your dad's name, but I do not remember one of the
twins' names, and I see a couple other athletes. Do you get stoned before you play an
athletic game? Do you get stoned before you take an exam? I know I did not and my
professor did not let us. Do you know why? It is because it impairs your ability to do
your very best. The legacy we will leave behind...which I learned from two (2) of my
former students, Sariah and Tamara, who came yesterday to hang with me and Council
Chair Rapozo. We were so impressed with the intelligence and these grown up young
ladies to be leaders who advocate against it. That taught me something.Yesterday, they
told me and Council Chair Rapozo the State will make the decision...and thank you to
the Attorney General Anne Lopez. She is our leader and she has a wealth of knowledge,
but the two (2) young ladies told us this is the time to leave behind a legacy.
Councilmember DeCosta, Council Chair Rapozo, what legacy do you want to leave
behind? I remember when you were in the fifth grade and we were on the hiking trail
in Koke`e. I remember what you asked me. You asked, "Uncle Bill, how do you know
how to get back of the center? You know the trails like the back of your hand." I
COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 13, 2024
guarantee you that I would not know my way back if I was high on marijuana. With
that being said, I will listen to the testimonies today. Before we begin, I want to say one
thing. My grandma always asked me, "Why are your folks going to add a little bit of
ingredients to my stew? It is perfect. Why do you want to add ingredients to my
homemade sweet bread? The recipe is perfect." Folks, Kaua`i is perfect right now. There
is no reason to add the legalization of marijuana because the people who smoke still
smoke. They can still get it today. I want to listen to everyone today before making my
final decision. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes. I hear both sides, I respect the value of
personal freedom and individual rights, but more than that, for me, it is more about the
safety of our community and public safety, in general, and also about our young people.
For me, the testimony we received last time from the Chief of Police was the most
valuable. He did follow up and share it with us in writing. It is about six (6) pages and
he has a lot of citations and links of where some of the data comes from, but I did want
to share a little bit of that. "A commercialized cannabis industry will result in the
expansion of marijuana use, increased criminal activity, and dangerous roadways that
will negatively affect our quality of life and impact public safety. The marijuana being
ingested today is a powerful, psychoactive, hallucinogenic drug. The marijuana through
the `60s and the `80s had a five-percent to ten-percent tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
content, but today, the average marijuana THC content is twenty-five percent (25%) to
thirty, percent (30%), and it is commonly available and sold at ninety-eight
percent (98%) THC. State-sanctioned marijuana sales do not decrease illegal markets.
Instead, criminal drug markets flourish." He shared a lot of data and statistics from Las
Vegas, Nevada. "The commercialization of marijuana leads to the normalization and
proliferation of illegal public marijuana consumption, negatively impacting the quality
of life in our parks and our public spaces." In the last point, he says, "The push to
commercialized cannabis, `recreational marijuana' in Hawai`i, is not about legalizing
adult marijuana use," and the concern about people being incarcerated. "Hawai`i has
already decriminalized enough marijuana for adults to possess up to three (3) to five (5)
joints. Few, if any, adults are prosecuted in Kauai County for marijuana-related
offenses." Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Waimea High
School students for attending. It is a very controversial issue and I am glad you folks
have taken some interest. It is a nationwide issue. Thirty-eight (38) out of fifty (50)
states have legalized marijuana for medical use. Twenty-four (24) out of fifty (50) states
have legalized marijuana for recreational use, so it is a large portion of the U.S. Half('A)
of the U.S. has legalized recreational marijuana. Currently, our State is looking at
legalizing marijuana for...how many years have they been looking at it?We have looked
at it very strongly for maybe the past five (5) years. Recently, the Senate had a vote on
SB 3335, Senate Draft (SD) 2, and the vote was nineteen (19) to six (6) in favor. It has
already passed the Senate in whatever version it is in now, and the House of
Representatives will be deciding on it soon. If the House of Representatives decides to
be in favor of it, it will pass, pending the governor's approval. I think Hawai`i is moving
COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 13, 2024
forward to allowing recreational marijuana. Although it will not go into effect until
2026, I believe, if it passes the House of Representatives, which I think at this point is
going to be a close vote, if you are really strongly against it, then I would advise you to
make your voices be heard at the House of Representatives, by the Members who are
voting on the issue. The Kaua`i County Council has no say in whether it should be legal
or not legal for recreation use. Zero (0).We can help influence the Members of the Senate
and the House of Representatives just like you can, by telling them why you feel you
should either support it or not support it. For myself, I support legalized recreational
use of marijuana. My main reason is that I believe that just like alcohol, if the police
and Office of the Prosecuting Attorney enforce recreational use of marijuana the same
way was alcohol, basically it is the same thing to me. I think alcohol and marijuana are
both just as harmful to use, so I believe that if we free up the police's time spent on
recreational marijuana, they can spend more of the time and resources on more
hardcore drugs, like cocaine, ice, and heroin. I believe those things are far more
destructive to families and individuals than recreational marijuana and I think we hear
things like, "If we legalize recreational marijuana, you will have a problem controlling
the black market." The black market has been here for years, but the black market is
controlled by...we have raids where they have big areas or fields of marijuana growing,
KPD will go out, and it will continue to happen because the black market will still be
considered illegal. The same steps that are taken to control the black market are going
to be taken. As far as homes growing black market, it will still be illegal. If a neighbor
sees a person with more than six (6) plants, that is already a violation. If you have
medical-use, I think you can have up to six (6) plants. There will still be ways of
controlling the black market. To me, to make that argument is far from the truth. The
black market, in whatever shape and form it is in now, already exists and has existed
for the past fifty (50) or sixty (60)years. Let us be real. The movement is here before the
State Legislators and the Governor, and a decision will be made. It will not be made in
front of this Council, so whatever I feel, whatever citizens from Kaua`i feel, and
whatever your parents feel...those comments should be made to the State Legislature,
not to the Council, because the Council has no say on this issue. To be honest, it baffles
me why we even have this here. It is a waste of our time. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: First of all, I appreciate all of you being here. I
think it is a very important discussion. For me, recreational marijuana is something I
have a hard time supporting. I think it is all about our youth. That is where I am at
with the youth part of it. Some say it is about alcohol. Just because alcohol is already in
this movement, why add this to that list?We have a chance to not move forward. There
are so many different discussions I have had on a personal note to see how this can
continue to affect our youth. That is where I am and why it is hard for me. I know there
is this up and down, and back and forth of the different levels of government, from the
Attorney General, and all of that. Even the adolescent treatment and healing center we
are trying to put together and all of that are discussions I have gone through. I look
forward to hearing you speak and hearing some of the discussions, but for now, that is
where I am at. It is hard for me to support something we can say "no" to right now. It
will affect our youth and the movement forward. That is where I am at, so I look forward
to the conversation. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 13, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: I really want to hear what everyone has to say.
I know people have been waiting all day, so I will reserve my comments until the end.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Just before we suspend the rules, I want
to explain, especially to the children who are here trying to learn about how the
government works. Resolutions are policy statements. They are statements that this
body makes to send to the State or Federal government. The Legislature does
resolutions that portray their policy statements to the Federal government. Our
Resolutions have no power or effect of law, but it is commonly used here on this County
Council to send our message to an agency, like the State, to share the Council's position
on a particular issue. Councilmember Kagawa is correct. The Resolution does not show
the testimonies that we take today, and if you feel one way or the other at the State
level, that you should be communicating with your State Representatives and Senators,
but this process here is simply to send our policy statement on this body based on the
vote to the appropriate agencies. That was geared more to the students in high school.
We will take the Zoom testimony first.
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: The first registered
speaker is Wendy Gibson-Viviani, followed by Karen O'Keefe.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
WENDY GIBSON-VIVIANI: Thank you. Good morning, everyone and thank
you for this opportunity. My name is Wendy Gibson-Viviani and I am a nurse. I have
been a cannabis nurse advocator and patient advocate for the last ten (10) of my
thirty (30) years of living in Hawai`i. I was a member of Hawai`i's Dual Use of Cannabis
Task Force back in 2022 and I am a member of Hawai`i Alliance for Cannabis Reform.
I think that if we were debating if alcohol should be legal or not, rather than cannabis,
alcohol would still be illegal and you would not have the freedom to choose between a
glass of wine, a beer, or a cocktail. Any drinking would be illegal and you would be
criminalized and stigmatized if you did. Our society has normalized drinking beer that
has up to eight percent (8%) alcohol and mixed drinks with up to ninety-six
percent (96%), and because alcohol was legalized for adult-use, we have controls on
product quality and sales.You know what strength you are getting. We can do the same
for cannabis legalization. I think that we can agree that cannabis is less toxic and
harmful to the body, less addictive, and less likely to cause violent or reckless behavior
than alcohol. Recently, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services advised the
Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to take it out of the Schedule 1 drug category
and put it into a Schedule 3 category, which is a class that is of less harmful substances.
They said that cannabis poses a low-risk threat to public health, that it has less
potential for misuse than drugs in the Schedule 1 or 2 lists, and it has legitimate medical
use. They also said that a vast majority of people who use cannabis do so in a manner
that does not lead to dangerous outcomes to themselves or others, and we can see that
this is generally true, not only in the U.S., in the forty-seven (47) states that have
allowed it for medical use, or the twenty-four (24) states that allow adult-use, but across
the world and in entire countries that have legalized it. I am part of a growing network
of healthcare professionals who see potential health benefits from legalization. Data
collected from states that legalized showed that when cannabis use goes up, the use of
opiates, benzodiazepines, and alcohol goes down, and these are the top three (3)
COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 13, 2024
substances that people are overdosing on every day in the U.S. A reduction of these
more harmful substances may lead to less overdose deaths, less drug driving, and less
damages to health.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Ms. Gibson-Viviani: Legalization could also help expand Hawai`i's
medical program, because not all the conditions that cannabis can be used to treat are
on our list of qualifying conditions. I personally do not drink alcohol, because I consider
it a poison and I try to keep poisons out of my body. I do not consider cannabis to be a
poison and as a responsible adult, I should be given the choice of using a product that
is safer than alcohol. While this legalization bill is not perfect, we do need to stop
criminalizing people who want to use cannabis responsibly, so please do not oppose it.
Thank you for this opportunity to testify on this important matter.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Karen O'Keefe, followed by Kim Coco Iwamoto.
KAREN O'KEEFE: Aloha. My name is Karen O'Keefe and I am the
attorney who has worked at cannabis policy for over twenty (20) years at the nonprofit
organization Marijuana Policy Project. I urge you to oppose Resolution No. 2024-12.
Cannabis prohibition has been a harmful failure that derails lives and puts cannabis
consumers, communities, and everyone involved in the cannabis trade at risk. It is only
legalization and regulation that allows for things like laboratory testing, potency labels,
point of sale education, environmental standards, and even really basic worker
protections, like child labor laws and minimum wage laws. Fifty-eight percent (58%) of
Hawai`i voters support the legalization and regulation of cannabis and for good reason.
While cannabis is not risk-free, it is safer than alcohol, tobacco, and many medications.
In the land of the free, adults should not be penalized for using a less harmful substance,
which many are using as an over-the-counter medicine. Any risks of cannabis are best
addressed by education, product labeling, and sensible regulations, not handcuffs, jail
cells and driving all sales underground. More than half of Americans live in states
where cannabis is legal. The first of these laws passed over a decade ago, and support
has increased, not decreased, and none of the laws have been repealed.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Ms. O'Keefe: That is because voters have seen that the sky
did not (inaudible). Also, I would like to note, correct the record, that no legalization
state allows cities or counties to opt out of legalizating possession, in case that was not
clear. There are some that allow cities to take a Not In My Backyard (NIMBY) approach
to retail sales, but of them, some like where I live in Michigan, allow home delivery,
statewide. Some of the more recent legal states, like Maryland, which realized that
allowing these local opt outs creates pockets of illegality that perpetuates the illicit
market which undermines the benefit of legalization and regulation. To respond to a
few of the claims by opponents of legalization, there has been a suggestion that
somehow this would hurt young people. We have ten (10) years of data. Teen cannabis
use has not increased. The head of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, Nora Volkow,
COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 13, 2024
M.D., testified in the U.S. Senate, "Legalization by some states of marijuana has not
been associated with the increase in adolescence marijuana use." The year after she
said that new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data came up that
actually a decrease in all but one (1) of the legalization states of teen use. Regarding
road safety, there has been a lot of confusion there as well, but if you look at every state
before legalization and 2019, which was right before COVID-19, traffic fatality data
from the National (inaudible) data, you will see a decrease as a whole, so overall, road
fatalities went down post-legalization. There was a suggestion that somehow the illicit
market will out-compete the legal market, which is a multi-billion-dollar market now.
Surveys have shown that in legal states, only six percent (6%) on average of cannabis
users are buying their cannabis from an illegal dealer. The vast majority of them are
buying it from legal stores, and those that are still buying it illegally probably are in
those pockets of prohibition. Most of the illicit activity that persists in the legal states
is cultivation to serve those twenty-six (26) states that still have prohibition, where one
hundred percent (100%) of the cannabis that is not medical is illegal. As long as there
is demand, there will be a supply. I live in Michigan and we have some border states
with Wisconsin, a very, very remote upper peninsula. There are a lot of cannabis
businesses doing booming business because people in the prohibition state want legal
and regulated cannabis. Prohibition means no control. A 2012 survey, pre-legalization
in every state, from Columbia University found that forty percent (40%) of high school
children knew a peer who sold cannabis. Only one percent (1%) knew another peer who
sold alcohol. Prohibition means that it is high schoolers who are the ones who have the
easiest access to cannabis and more often are selling it, and so in a lot of cases, that
cannabis is dangerous. It is not regulated, it has heavy metals, it has pesticides that are
not safe for human consumption, and in some cases, it even has other drugs that those
people would not have voluntarily consumed. Cannabis legalization and only cannabis
legalization allows for regulatory control for those stores to check identification (ID) or
lose their licenses. It also generates tax revenues that can be used for community needs,
and it allows for those other health and safety protections, like potency labels. Mahalo
for your time and for the opportunity to testify.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you so much. For Zoom testimonies, we
are allowing them the full six (6) minutes, just so we do not have to connect and
reconnect. On Zoom, we will do the six-minute timer.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Kim Coco Iwamoto, followed by Carrie Ann
Shirota.
KIM COCO IWAMOTO: Good morning. Thank you so much, Chair
Rapozo, Vice Chair Kuali`i, and Members of the Council. I am Kim Coco Iwamoto. As
some of you may know, I was actually born in Wilcox Memorial Hospital, so it is nice to
be back via Zoom. I also founded an organization called the Chamber of Sustainable
Commerce a couple of years ago. We have many members who have businesses on
Kaua`i, and we also have many members who are farmers. The reason why I am
supporting legalization and why we, as the Chamber, are supporting it is...and I just
want to clarify that I am going to testify...I submitted like three (3) testimonies, and I
apologize, but I am going to switch hats towards the end. I am going to testify on behalf
of the Chamber right now. On behalf of the Chamber, we support it mainly because we
want to get ahead of what is happening. I think the writing is on the wall. Governor
COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 13, 2024
Green, who is a physician, already declared on the news that he supports legalizing
recreational, responsible adult-use marijuana, so if the Legislature gives him a bill to
sign, he will sign it, and he is a physician. If we are going to think about health issues,
I would probably follow a physician more than an attorney, even the Attorney General,
but our position is about supporting farmers. Every single one of you knows a small
farmer on Kauai who is producing produce for local consumption. The way the bill is
drafted, and this is where it gets distracting, when you are fighting about supporting
legalization, opposing legalization, we are missing the boat on what legalizing can do
and what will happen. We have an opportunity to make sure that local farmers who are
producing food for local consumption get the permit to cultivate marijuana for
non-medical commercial use. This could potentially subsidize all of the produce. It is
costly. You hear from them all the time how expensive it is to grow produce in Hawaii
for local consumption. They have to compete with imported produce that is made with
cheap labor. We have an opportunity to give the first grow permits to local farmers who
are already growing. If we do say to them, "You can only grow one (1) acre of marijuana
to nine (9) acres of papaya or nine (9) acres of taro," they could subsidize of all those
huge expenses of growing produce. We could feed Hawaii. It could be an amazing
opportunity for us to be truly food sustainable. We can get there quicker. We can make
sure all of our public schools are being supplied produce that is grown locally. What is
happening is even though the AG's proposed bill is so big and massive, what is it hiding?
What is it hiding from us to distract us? I feel like right now the way it is written, from
what I understand, the dispensaries will get all the permits to grow for non-medical
recreational use. That is like giving it to the tippy toppy, one-thousandth
percent (0.001%) of people who should be growing it. We need to diversify. We need to
make sure that all the farmers we know have the opportunity to capture these profits
to subsidize what they really want to do, which is grow food for their neighbors. I think
that we are going to miss an opportunity if we are distracted by all this other stuff. That
is from the Chamber. I just want you to really think about this missed opportunity and
if we are late to the game on this, and they cut us off, that does not allow for local
farmers to grow first, then we are really risking a huge portion of what could happen
with our agriculture. Secondly, if I could switch over to now, the fact that I was on the
Board of Education for five (5) years. I was intimately involved with the CDC's youth
behavioral risk survey that basically the CDC conducts every two (2) years across the
nation. I think in my testimony, I gave you folks the link that you folks can go in, play
with the data,look at it, and ask questions. What Karen O'Keefe shared, for many states
there has been a huge decline, and even in Hawaii, when you look at where we
were...because we surveyed on the question about youth, "Hey, high school students, in
the last thirty (30) days, have you used marijuana?" That is a question that they are
asked, it is an anonymous survey, and it is asked every two (2) years, so before we even
legalized medical marijuana in Hawaii, we had the survey results, and I think you folks
can see that here. Some medical marijuana got legalized in 2000. In 1999, the rates
were twenty-four point seven percent (24.7%) of all the high schoolers who took the
survey, they said yes, in the last thirty (30) days they used it. In 2005, this is five (5)
years after the adults in the room said it is okay to use it medically, it dropped by thirty
percent (30%) to seventeen point two percent (17.2%) reported using. They had no
reason to lie. It is anonymous. Then...
Council Chair Rapozo: Coco, I am sorry. You need to wrap it up
because your six (6) minutes are up, but I will let you wrap it up really quick.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 13, 2024
Ms. Iwamoto: I am sorry. I was not sure. Thank you. The
other part was that once you legalize regulated dispensaries, it dropped another thirty
percent (30%) between 2005 and 2021. Those are the data points. Those are the
considerations I would like you to think about. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you so much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Carrie Ann Shirota.
CARRIE ANN SHIROTA: Aloha Chair Rapozo, Vice Chair Kuali`i, and
Councilmembers. My name is Carrie Ann Shirota and I am the Policy Director for the
American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Hawai`i, a nonpartisan and nonprofit
organization dedicated to protecting the civil rights and liberties enshrined in our
Federal and State Constitutions. Today, I am submitting testimony in opposition to
Resolution. While the ACLU has concerns about the bill, SB 3335, as drafted, we
support sensible adult-use cannabis legalization. Before I get into the weeds about our
position, I just want to highlight my background. First of all, I want to acknowledge
that I am not raised and have not lived on Kauai, but I was born and raised on the
island of Maui, in a very rural community with pastures and animals and grew up
surrounded by family and `ohana. I went away to school. I graduated from public school,
went away, came back home, and got my law degree, but Maui is still and always will
be home, so I share this lens not only in my policy position, but I am also not a lobbyist
for the position. I am not getting paid. I am not planning to make money off of it if this
legalization bill goes through. Some other hats that I have worn that inform our position
here is I have worked previously as an Enforcement Attorney for the Hawai`i Civil
Rights Commission, I have worked as Investigator for the U.S. Housing and Urban
Development (HUD), I worked for the University of Hawai`i (UH), Maui College, and I
previously served as the Director of Maui Economic Opportunity's (MEO's)
Reintegration Program, helping men and women who had been convicted of serious and
violent felonies transition back into the community to become contributing members of
our community, and I can attest that those who committed crimes that fell in that
category—serious and violent felonies—none of them were caused by cannabis or
marijuana usage. There was often alcohol, methamphetamine (meth), cocaine, other
substances, but not cannabis, and also history and exposure to violence in their own
homes. Right now, we want to focus on a couple of issues and sort of our position from
ACLU, addressing constitutional issues. While we respect the opinion of the Attorney
General, we also want to point out that if you look throughout history, there have been
times that Attorney Generals and Supreme Courts at the Federal and State level have
made decisions that we look back that are erroneous and we said, "How could we even
think that?" If we just look to the past, again, slavery, women who are here on the
Council could not even vote, a number of us because of the color of our skin would not
have civil rights, so we cannot just only look to the AG's opinion, while that should be
considered. The right to individual or bodily autonomy is protected by our Federal and
State Constitutions in matters of religion, political opinion, reproductive decisions, and
the right to consume, whether it is Tylenol, whether it is a cocktail, or in this case,
cannabis. Cannabis prohibition law infringes upon the explicit right to privacy, which
is enshrined in our Hawai`i Constitution. We provide broader protections than the
Federal government. Cannabis prohibition has also led to a host of civil rights
infringements, from searches and seizures to civil asset forfeitures of people's property,
COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 13, 2024
and we need to look at the consequences, the collateral consequences of an arrest and
conviction record. The Department of the Attorney General just produced data. There
are over fifty thousand (50,000) people with cannabis offense arrests in Hawai`i alone,
and over ten thousand (10,000) with convictions. What does this mean? This means
lifetime barriers to jobs, housing, and other life opportunities. To highlight a story on
Kaua`i, there is a law professor who teaches a cannabis class at our law school here and
he went with someone on Kaua`i who is a teacher by training, but is not able to get a job
because of the fact of his past conviction record. We also want to note that there are
racial and ethnic disparities. This war on cannabis has disproportionately impacted
Native Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Blacks, as well as Filipinos both at the youth and
adult level. Criminalization is still occurring. If you look at data from the Attorney
General as of 2020, there were five hundred twenty-three (523) persons still arrested
for cannabis offenses, which leads to collateral consequences and a lifetime record. This
is also a measure of workforce development. The Council for Native Hawaiian
Advancement, Appleseed, Economic Justice, a whole host of other organizations that
are not profiting off of the industry, but see that there are economic values and that we
move away from criminalization. An illegal market means no tax revenue. A legalized
market means we can use the tax for special funds to address public education, housing,
healthcare, and stop incarcerating people. People who are still in parole or probation
can still be reincarcerated for just using cannabis, and I want to point out that we spend
ninety thousand dollars ($90,000) a year to incarcerate one (1) individual, and we spend
less than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) to educate our keiki, all of whom are in the
room, so we need to step back and look at where we put our investments. Let us invest
in data-driven policies. Science has proven there is medicinal purpose for cannabis, and
I also want to point out, historically, the Kingdom of Hawai`i did not make cannabis
illegal. It was legal and it was mentioned in 'Olelo Hawaii newspapers in the 1840s. It
was only upon American imposition that this became a crime, so we ask that we stop
criminalizing, arresting people, and having the collateral consequences and that we
invest in data-driven policies. I just want to add, finally, I am a mother to a
twelve-year-old, and I know he is of that age where children start possibly, maybe they
are tempted, maybe they want to experiment. I teach him and our household not to use
alcohol, other drugs, tobacco, but I want to know as a mother that if my child at some
point in time and his friends decided to experiment, I would prefer that it is bought from
a store, that it is tested versus it being laced with fentanyl that could kill my child and
his friends.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I need to stop you. Your six (6)
minutes is up.
Ms. Shirota: I just humbly ask that you take all of these into
consideration, including public safety. As a mother, as a Policy Director, thank you so
much for the opportunity to testify.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have a question.
Councilmember Cowden: No, I have a point of procedure. I know what
we have at least three (3) people who have to fly away and leave within fifteen (15)
minutes. Are we able to take testimony of people who come from the beginning?
COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Do we have any other testifiers on Zoom?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have no further Zoom testifiers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any registered speakers? Okay.
Thank you very much, all of you on Zoom. Could we have the first registered speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first registered speaker is Dale Rosenfeld.
DALE ROSENFELD: I would like to give it over to Nico who has to
fly out.
Council Chair Rapozo: Who is here that has to fly? Okay. Please state
your name, for the record. Again, you will have three (3) minutes. We will deal with the
outer island people first. We will let you have your six (6) minutes and then...
CASEY ROTHSTEIN: Aloha. Thank you for allowing me to speak to
the Council here today. My name is Casey Rothstein. I am not an outer island person. I
am a Kaua`i resident. I am the Operator of Kaua`i's medical marijuana dispensary,
Green Aloha. I am also a parent of three (3) teenaged daughters—eighteen (18),
sixteen (16), and fourteen (14). There is and has been for decades a flourishing
recreational market here in Hawai`i and on Kaua`i. That market has been and currently
is completely in the hands of the illicit market. These sales are unregulated, untested,
and untaxed. The overwhelming majority of cannabis that is sold in the illicit market is
not grown here in Hawaii. It is shipped in from the West Coast. By creating a
well-regulated adult-use industry, we can ensure product safety through testing, keep
it out of the hands of keiki through strict ID requirements for sales as well as
educational programs,both of which are in this bill, and create a legal industry for small
farmers and legacy growers to build legal businesses on Kaua`i to ensure that the
cannabis sold in Hawai`i is grown in Hawai`i. That is important. This industry will also
create a much-needed tax revenue for the State of Hawai`i without raising taxes on the
citizens of Hawaii simply by collecting taxes off of sales that have been going on for
ages, but are untaxed. Estimates show that a mature industry could generate upwards
of one hundred million dollars ($100,000,000) of taxes. Think about what that could do
for the State, again, without raising taxes on residents. Cannabis has proven to be far
safer than tobacco that kills nearly five hundred thousand (500,000) people per year in
just the U.S. and alcohol that kills almost two hundred thousand (200,000) people per
year. As a society, we have chosen to regulate those industries. The individual choice
and freedom are part of the foundation of America and of Hawaii. People should have
the freedom to choose cannabis over these more dangerous substances. They should be
able to obtain it via a safe and regulated market where they do not have to feel like
criminals to purchase. Yes, as many of you have said, it is attainable, but it is
stigmatized and you have to go to an illegal source to obtain it if you do not have a
medical card. My parents are in their seventies. My father is a doctor. He is retired now,
but he was a doctor for over forty (40) years. My mother is a professional. Both of them
have smoked cannabis since the `60s, and they have both been great parents and very
good professionals. They should not have to feel like criminals to purchase their
cannabis. They should not have to go to the street to purchase their cannabis. I would
also like to talk about jobs. Many people leave Kaua`i because there is no work here.
COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 13, 2024
There is not enough work here. Many young people in their twenties and thirties want
to be in this industry. They have left Hawai`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Hold on really quick. Hang on. Did you say you
are from Kaua`i?
Mr. Rothstein: I have been on Kaua`i for over twenty (20)
years.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have a flight to catch?
Mr. Rothstein: I do, because the bill is being heard at 2:30 p.m.
on Oahu.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Could you give him his second three (3)
minutes?
Mr. Rothstein: Thank you. Many people have left Hawai`i to be
in this industry. There are Hawaiians and former Hawai`i residents all over the country
now in this industry because they had to leave to do it. Many of them would come back
and many of our future workers would not leave if this industry was here. We currently
employ over twenty (20)people. With adult-use and with the expansion that could come,
we would employ over one hundred (100) people. Good jobs, health insurance,
well-paying jobs. We have employees, residents from Kaua`i. Two (2) of our employees ,.
bought houses this year because they had good jobs that are on the records that are not
an underground, cash-only business, because it is legal. This bill is not a handout to the
industry. In fact, there are lots of things about it that we do not like, but it is time to
end prohibition. This bill was written by law enforcement. Yes, the Attorney General
said she is not in support, but she knows the people are. She knows that way more than
fifty percent (50%) of the people of Hawai`i want this to be legalized. Polling has shown
that it is close to eighty percent (80%) of people in Hawai`i who wants this legalized. She
knows the will of the people will eventually be heard, and the Attorney General from
law enforcement is saying that if it is going to be legalized, this bill is how they would
like to see it done, because it is a careful, conservative approach to legalization. It opens
up licenses for small growers, for legacy growers, and allows for Hawai`i to really build
an industry to keep jobs here, to grow our cannabis here, and maybe even someday to
export it around the country and even the world to really bring an industry back to
Hawai`i. Since sugarcane left, we have not had a real agricultural industry. Cannabis
may someday be that industry. Both nationwide and around the world attitudes have
changed for this. Some countries have completely legalized it. Eventually, those trade
barriers are going to drop and there is going to be an international market. Hawai`i is
legendary for its cannabis, and the world is going to want it. We should start building
the industry to get ready for it. I must say that when I was in high school, it was way
easier for a high school student to get cannabis than it was to get alcohol. To get alcohol,
you needed to know someone who was willing to break the law, put their ID out there,
buy it, and then come and give it to you. It was way easier because alcohol was legal,
regulated, and there were ID requirements. Being illegal is what makes it easily
accessible to the youth, because drug dealers do not ID. This bill is not a perfect bill.
COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 13, 2024
There are no perfect bills, but it is a good step in the right direction, and it is time to
end this horrible prohibition that has ruined so many lives.
Council Chair Rapozo: I need to stop you there. Did you say when you
were in high school, it was easier for the students to...what did you say?
Mr. Rothstein: Cannabis than alcohol. Absolutely. It was way
easier, because alcohol was legal and regulated, and you needed to show an ID to buy
alcohol, so it was way easier to get it. When you regulate it, make it legal, and make it
so the stores have to ID...
Council Chair Rapozo: But you said that the children had to find
someone to get an ID.
Mr. Rothstein: That is what I am saying. It was easier to get
cannabis, because to get cannabis you did not have to find someone who was over
twenty-one (21) to buy it for you. There were dealers happy to sell it to you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I got it.
Mr. Rothstein: When it becomes legal and regulated, and as
the person from the ACLU said...
Council Chair Rapozo: I need to stop you there.
Mr. Rothstein: ...use goes down. Thank you.
NIKO LEVERENZ: Aloha, Chair and Members. It is nice to be with
you again. It was a pleasure to participate in Councilmember Cowden's radio program
last week.
Council Chair Rapozo: Could you state your name, please?
Mr. Leverenz: I am Niko Leverenz. I was born and raised on
O`ahu. I am with the Drug Policy Forum of Hawai`i where I serve as its board's
president. I also work with Hawai`i Health and Harm Reduction Center, the State's
oldest and largest acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) services organization.
I also served on the Dual Use of Cannabis Task Force which issued its final report in
December 2022. Just briefly, with respect to higher levels of THC, higher levels of THC
in flower and product are not necessarily indicative of increased incidence of use of
cannabis use disorder. Also, tested and labeled cannabis products allow consumers to
titrate their dosage. In the industry, now you see two point five (2.5) milligram, five (5)
milligram, and ten (10) milligram portions. This is going to be especially important for
our kupuna who are looking for assistance with their pain management and with their
sleep. I was going to talk about road safety a little bit, but because time is short and I
do have an airplane to catch, I want to talk about our youth and the impact on youth.
Those under the age of twenty-five (25) as well as pregnant women and those with
serious mental illness should generally refrain from the use of cannabis, but this does
not counsel a prohibition which has a significant negative impact on young people and
COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 13, 2024
families. I have here a handout for the Council indicating the Kauai arrest data of
juveniles from 2000 to 2020. The criminalization of children is harmful to them, their
families, and our communities. Hawai`i already leads the nation in the arrests of school
children per a UH analysis in 2021. One (1)in ten(10), mostly for status offenses.Maybe
it is lower on Kaua`i. I am not sure. Uniform crime report data regarding youth cannabis
possession arrests on Kaua`i indicate a disproportionate impact on Native Hawaiian
and Filipino children, and this is in alignment with the overall data on criminal legal
system operations including drug law enforcement. You look at the numbers here. The
first column is the people who were actually arrested. The other columns are
percentages of the total people arrested. Whether it is eighty-eight (88) or
twenty-one (21), there is a story behind every child represented in those figures.
Criminal legal system involvement disrupts and degrades the important relationships
of trust between children and their parents and elders. Criminal legal system
involvement supplants parental authority with state authority. If an arrest happens at
school, criminal legal system involvement impacts the relationships with teachers and
administrators and it lays the foundation for future criminal legal system involvement.
A more appropriate response if a child is using cannabis would be a swift and certain
therapeutic engagement, whether it be a school counselor or a family counselor. Are
they just having fun or is there something else going on there? Continued
misrepresentations about the risks associated with cannabis use also erodes young
people's trust in authority. When we make overwrought claims, as has been done with
the war on drugs, as has been done with the war on cannabis over decades, children do
have a bullshit (BS) detector, and they are going to not trust what you have to say
otherwise if you are on this. Again,. let us present our young people with the skills
necessary to make better choices pertaining to their health and wellbeing, and
criminalization, including arrests, is not conducive to their health and wellbeing. I
thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today.
Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on. I have a couple of questions.
Mr. Leverenz: Sure.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you for being here. I was on
Councilmember Cowden's show with you and I really appreciate your...you are a
cool-headed person.
Mr. Leverenz: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have just a couple of questions. This chart
that you provided just shows the number of arrests.
Mr. Leverenz: That is correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: In many of the arrests, the children are routed
to treatment services.
Mr. Leverenz: Sure.
Council Chair Rapozo: None of the children went to jail.
COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 13, 2024
Mr. Leverenz: Even if they are routed to treatment services,
that is sort of a misallocation of resources, because not everyone who is arrested for
cannabis possession necessarily needs treatment.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is right, but Hawaii also decriminalized
personal use marijuana, right?
Mr. Leverenz: That is correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: What year was that?
Mr. Leverenz: 2019. That is why we see a bit of a drop in the
2020 figure.
Council Chair Rapozo: Exactly. Where is the data from 2019 to 2024,
because I think that is important?I keep hearing prohibition, prohibition, prohibition...
Mr. Leverenz: It is coming.
Council Chair Rapozo: ...but the decriminalization has really dropped
the numbers. In fact, at the last meeting here, we heard the Chief of Police saying that
they do not even actively go out looking anymore for marijuana personal use. There is
no real law enforcement activity on that right now. I am only speaking for Kaua`i.
Mr. Leverenz: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: On Councilmember Cowden's show, you
said...was it the Drug Policy of Hawaii?
Mr. Leverenz: It is the Drug Policy Forum of Hawaii.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think I asked the question, but did you say
you could not formally support the bill?
Mr. Leverenz: That is right. Officially, we are offering
comments on SB 3335.
Council Chair Rapozo: The Resolution today is opposing the bill, so
you are...
Mr. Leverenz: No, it does not just oppose the bill, it opposes
any adult-use legalization bill, so that is the basis for our opposition to this measure.
Council Chair Rapozo: The Resolution says, "The State Legislature to
oppose SB 3335."
Mr. Leverenz: That and all other bills which promote the
legalization of recreational marijuana, which we support.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Can the Drug Policy Forum of Hawai`i not
formally support the bill?
Mr. Leverenz: Not given its current context.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, and I have heard from several speakers
that the bill is not perfect.
Mr. Leverenz: That is correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: I need to ask. Would you not rather...and that
apparently is the position you folks have taken. "We are not going to formally support
it because it is not to where it should be."
Mr. Leverenz: We will continue to advocate for those
principles.
Council Chair Rapozo: To make it better.
Mr. Leverenz: Yes, to make it better, whether it passes or not.
If it passes, there is going to be a lot of work to do.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you so much.
Mr. Leverenz: Mahalo.
Council Chair Rapozo: I appreciate your commentary. Is there anyone
from the outer islands or neighboring islands who needs to catch a flight? If not, let us
go back to the top of the list.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Dale Rosenfeld, followed by Alvin "Bind'
Castello.
Ms. Rosenfeld: Aloha. I am Dale Rosenfeld. Many of you know
me for many years. I have lived here for forty (40)years up in Wailua Homesteads. I am
an educator. I have been an educator since I was twelve (12) years old and tutored
children in elementary school. For the past twenty-five (25) years, I have been a
cannabis educator. Why do I call it cannabis, and not marijuana? I hope that some of
you have that educational knowledge to know that marijuana is a really derogatory
label. It was based on Mexicans coming into America and calling them "marihuanas."
It was not a positive comment, so I am here to educate you about cannabis, not
marijuana. Facts, statistics can all be subverted to the use of the individual presenting
them. While I know that youth use has gone down everywhere that it has become
legal...everywhere, up to thirty percent (30%), I am going to tell you a personal story. I
had children, hundreds and hundreds of children, who came through my horseback
riding program, who I talked to clearly about cannabis. I did not give it to them. I talked
to them. I educated them. I wonder how many of you go home at the end of the day and
pop a beer, pour or brew a cup of ava. Do you then give it to your children? No. It is an
adult-use recreational beverage. I go home at the end of the day, and because I consume
COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 13, 2024
edibles...I smoke some, but mostly I consume it as an edible, at seventy (70) years old,
I walk three (3) to five (5) to seven (7) miles a day, because the cannabis helps me. I
want to see us have what we had five thousand (5,000) years ago, which was cannabis
use without regulations. I do not see the need for this County Council to oppose a bill
that, first of all, it is just your opinion that you are opposing it. There is nothing legal
that you can do at the State level...but to understand that legality is not something that
is evil. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Rosenfeld: Are there any questions?
Council Chair Rapozo: No. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Alvin "Bino" Castello.
ALVIN `LINO" CASTELLO: Aloha.My name is Alvin Castello,but everyone
calls me Bino. I was born and raised in Wailua, Kauai, my ohana has been in Kilauea,
Kauai for three (3) generations. I am a trainer and compliance officer for the Green
Aloha Dispensary here on Kauai. Personally, I am one of the lucky few who currently
could make a living in the medical cannabis industry on Kauai for the last five (5)years.
I believe it is a human right to have access to clean and safe plant medicine from fungi,
fruits, vegetables, and herbs, like cannabis flowers and cannabis-derived products, like
tinctures, topicals, and edibles. Personally, I use medical cannabis for pain, anxiety,
sleep disorder, and to also stimulate my appetite. I tried prescription drugs prescribed
by my doctor and most of them had side effects from dizziness, nausea, headaches, upset
stomach, rash, and constipation. By eating a healthy diet, exercise, access to clean plant
medicine, and having a positive mental attitude, my health and mental health has
never been better. I have seen many customers who did the same with debilitating
medical conditions like cancer, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), multiple
sclerosis (MS), amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), and severe pain. By slowly trading
out their prescription drugs, then transitioning to medical cannabis, a healthy diet, a
positive attitude, and exercise, majority of the outcomes are the same—healthier and
happy humans. I believe cannabis tax money can fund a variety of things, including
healthcare, general State budget, substance abuse and drug education, funding salaries
and needs for law enforcement, public schools, and local government. The State of
Hawaii budget needs more revenue and adult-use cannabis can help fund the State.
For over two (2) decades, the State of Hawaii has debated whether to legalize
recreational cannabis. We are the last democratic State to legalize cannabis if we do. In
my opinion, the longstanding war on drugs has been a failure. Data shows that the
State of Hawaii could possibly bring about three hundred million (300,000,000) in the
first few years and could create thousands of jobs in the cannabis industry. People and
personal friends are moving out of the State of Hawaii because they are seeing
opportunities in industries elsewhere where they can make a living and raise their
ohana.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 13, 2024
Mr. Castello: I am for access to clean cannabis for medicinal
use.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Castello: Thank you for your time. Thank you,
Councilmembers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: There are no further registered speakers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify who is not registered? Come on up. Again, this Resolution does not oppose
medical marijuana. It is just recreational marijuana.Are all three (3) of you coming up?
TAMARA LAWRENCE: Can we?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Each of you has three (3) minutes.
Ms. Lawrence: I will keep this short. My name is Tamara
Lawrence. I am a Project Coordinator for Ho`okele Coalition. I am here on behalf of our
Coalition, and also as a mother, a community member, a therapist...anything under the
sun, basically. Through my experiences in high school, the access to both alcohol and
marijuana was there. We could get it at any time, any day, and any hour, basically. I
was in a group of friends that would hang out at the Home Depot parking lot. Now, it is
more restricted over there, so you probably will not see the children there. We would
basically pass a joint around until someone passed out. I feel with this bill being passed,
yes, people say that there can be things to happen on the island, like working for a
coalition that helps prevention, education, harm reduction and things like that, there
can be things done, just like how Tobacco-Free Hawai`i advocates for tobacco use and
teaching the children the harms, but truly the youth does not really listen to that. I
remember being in high school listening to that and being like, "We are going to do that
anyway." I feel even though you can regulate having safe marijuana, regulated
marijuana, and everything like that, but when it comes into the hands of the individual,
what are they going to do with that? Are they going to resell it? Are they going to lace
it?You do not know what each individual will do once it is in their hands. There are a
lot of different perspectives on this and I have learned a lot here today, but just sort of
looking at it in that perspective of youth-favorable attitudes toward it, our culture. I
know when my children look at me doing something, they do the same thing. I ask,
"Where did you learn that?" I realize that I was the one who did that. Making this
accessible to our children, even if they are home alone like during COVID-19 when a lot
of the parents had to work, the children were at home, they were able to find alcohol,
able to find parents' vapes sitting around, and they would take it and use it. I hear this
a lot from the treatment side of everything and working in the coalition, hearing what
the youth have to say. Just thinking about it in that lens of increasing accessibility to
the youth. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 13, 2024
SARIAH MAKUAHI: Hello. I am Sariah Makuahi. I am from Wailua,
I was born and raised in Kapa`a, and I am in opposition of legalizing marijuana for a
few reasons. I think the main thing is thinking about the example that we set for the
children who we are working with. They are looking to us to be examples. Being in
prevention and working with local youth, we see that it is a problem that people say
marijuana is not addictive. It is. We see it. I have seen it. I have seen it in my family. I
have seen it with the children that we work with. It has ruined lives. Even if you prevent
just a few children from going down that path, do it. I do not know why you would not.
I guess that is the main reason. We, you, or whoever is in a position to make a decision
for children who cannot make a decision, yet. There are children sitting in the room.
Even though I am sure they have opinions and they should share them, they are still
looking at us to protect them, and I hope that you do that. Thank you.
LETICIA RUIZ: I am Letty Ruiz, and I am supporting the
coalition. I am a mother of five (5) and a grandmother of three (3). It is important for us
to listen, because we have a growing community and I really feel that I want to have
my children grow up and stay here on Kaua`i, and to be safe. Also, I have seen a lot of
children who come to...because I am now with the Hale `Opio Kaua`i Teen Court, I have
seen a lot of offenses that are causing that. That is why I feel like we want to protect
our youth here, I want to make them feel safe when they come to me, and redirect their
direction right now. We want to have more recreation that can help the children instead
of doing this kind...we want to encourage them to be active in things other than using
this type of substance that will not be good in the long run. It comes and it starts within
us, in the family, and I strongly believe that we should not legalize it just because we
want to save the future and the children are our future here. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else who has not
registered and would like to speak? Mr. Hart.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. There has been a
lot said and one of the frustrations of participating is, as I have said, I cannot possibly
address everything that I have heard, but I, in effect, am in agreement with the last
three (3) testifiers. Having chosen to be a Christian minister, I know that there are a
lot of children who look up to me. They watch how I live. They watch how I deal with
stress, anxiety and anger, and they see me turn to Jesus in any stressful or angry
situation. I want to say that the last time I testified I was in one of those and instead I
took it out on Councilmember Bulosan, and I want to apologize. Since I did it publicly,
I want to apologize publicly, and that is Jesus who encouraged me to do that. I am sorry,
Councilmember Bulosan. One of the things I will address is that there seems to be an
economic opportunity in legalizing marijuana. A lot of people have said that. I do not
think that is justification. I think the social issue is more important. I think the cultural
issue and the influence that legalization will have will make it more acceptable,
therefore, more easily give in to the temptation for the youth. Let us think about
farming. I can tell you that the backyard farmer, I suppose he will have somewhat of a
market, but the idea that Hawai`i is going to become the marijuana producing capitol
of the world is, first off, not something that I desire for the State in which I live. I do not
want that label. We have enough labels. The other thing is it simply is not true. Asia
will produce marijuana or cannabis that is much stronger and much cheaper. I am
limited by time so I will say, "Thank you, Council."
COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify who has not registered? Do any of the Waimea High School students? If you
could, just state your name for the record.
KAYELEIGH MARTINEZ: Hello. My name is Kayeleigh Martinez, I am
from Waimea High School, and I am actually going to be testifying to approve adult-use
for marijuana. I do not smoke. I am not of age to smoke, but I do see that there are
benefits to it. For example, someone mentioned fentanyl being laced in it. I would rather
have people use it legally, not have it laced, and have safer use of it. I am a teenager. I
go out. People are always going to try and peer pressure me to do things, but it is all
about personal choice. I do think it is more on educating people and students on why
they should or should not do something, and it is all about your choice on whether you
do it safely or not. We talked to the Mayor earlier, and he talked about how he does not
use alcohol because of his own personal choice, and I feel like it should be everyone's
personal choice on whether they smoke or not. That is all.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. I almost want to give
you a hand. It takes a lot of courage to walk up here. There are millions of people
watching this live, right now. Is there anyone else?Two (2) can come up, but only one (1)
at a time can speak. We will start with you right here in this seat. If you could, state
your name.
RALPH PUNZALAN: My name is Ralph Punzalan. I am a senior at
Waimea High School and I am personally in favor for it. I am clean, I do not smoke, I
do not do drugs and whatnot, but I understand that this bill is basically for people to
not be considered a criminal for possessing and using marijuana. There are people who
are willing to be responsible about it, but there is a possibility for those to take
advantage of these rules and in having this thing be legalized, but then again, it is
already integrated into our community however much regulations and rules we put in
place. Prohibiting things can make it worse, like what happened in the 1920s and the
Prohibition Era when people were led to making moonshine and working in
speakeasies. I think the best way to keep up with the possible, inevitable decision of
legalizing this thing is to educate younger folks and even adults, in general. From what
I have heard, a lot of people are making points that it is better if it is regulated than not
knowing where it comes from. If this bill passes, only time will tell whether the decision
is for the better or will further damage our community. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Councilmember Cowden: Just for clarity, do you support the Resolution
to oppose the bill that supports the freedom?
Council Chair Rapozo: No, I think he said he supports the legalization
of marijuana.
Councilmember Cowden: Do you support the legalization?
Mr. Punzalan: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 13, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I missed that. I was not sure.
Mr. Punzalan: But it also depends on people's personal choice.
Each one of us has the power to refuse it.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, you support legalization.
Council Chair Rapozo Next.
NOBU YAMAUCHI: Hello. My name is Nobu Yamauchi and I do not
support it. I do not think that people who use it are bad people. People use it and they
are still good people, but I think that once you start using marijuana, then it can affect
what you use later on. Some people call it a gateway drug, and that can be bad.
Marijuana is not technically bad, and I think that one of the reasons why you see people,
children, or teenagers not use it is because they like the rush. They like to feel that it is
illegal and it makes them feel better than if it were not illegal. I think that if children
use it, then it is going to make them develop this thinking that they can use it, keep on
using it, and it will mess up their brains and things like that when they get to adulthood.
Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have a question?
Councilmember Cowden: I am just lost on the words "oppose" and
"support."
Mr. Yamauchi: I am opposed to it.
Council Chair Rapozo: He opposes the legalization of marijuana.
Councilmember Cowden: He opposed legalizing marijuana. When you
folks speak, if you say, "I oppose legal marijuana," or, "I support legal marijuana," that
will help me.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Councilmember Kagawa: Good job.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? If not, we will have
further discussion.
Ms. Rosenfeld: Can I get a second three (3)?
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry?
Ms. Rosenfeld: Can I get a second three (3)?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, you can.
COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 13, 2024
Ms. Rosenfeld: Thank you. Dale Rosenfeld again. We have
talked a lot about youth. I would also like to talk about kupuna. I am seventy (70) years
old. For more than fifty (50) years, I have been consuming cannabis. I consume it
medically. It keeps my inflammation down, so that I can raise my arms. It keeps my
emotions at a level that I can talk to people and not fear that they are going to be angry
with me every second as I grew up that way. The idea of being able to access cannabis
without the stigma, without worrying that we cannot talk about it because a State
agency is going to come down on us, because a Federal agency is going to come down on
us, because your aunt, your tutu, cannot get out of bed to go to the dispensary with her
own medical card that she paid two hundred fifty dollars ($250) to a doctor and then
had to pay for the medical card to the State. She is the only one who can go into a
dispensary with her medical card and obtain legal, clean cannabis. With adult-use
recreational cannabis passed, it does not mean that children are suddenly going to use
it. It is quite the opposite as we just heard. When it is something that is a gain to them,
they are more likely, but for us kupuna who are using it, no medical marijuana is not
on the table here, but allow people to obtain, to have access, to cannabis without having
a medical card, to be able to go and say to a friend, "I need some. I need to be able to
sleep. I have not slept in four (4) days because my body is cramping, because I am in so
much pain." It is a wonderful thing to not have to have only that same person go to a
medical dispensary. I hope that is a little bit of education as well as to why I am in favor
of adult-use cannabis. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I apologize for not calling you folks
back up. It sounded like you had concluded your testimony. Is there anyone else who
wants to speak for a second time?
Mr. Hart: Again, for the record, Bruce Hart. I think that
there is some...I do not think it is confusion. This Resolution does not ask for an
across-the-board stoppage of the use of marijuana. I, too, am for choice. What I am
against is the legalization and the stigma that goes with that. First, I want to thank the
Attorney General. I thought it was a very good letter. I have a question. If we make
marijuana, if we take it as something that is a natural substance, which it is, and it
grows, so you can grow it...I am serious about his question. I would like to know. I know
maybe none of you can answer, but I am going to find out. Opium. The opium pod or
flower. It is natural. It grows.You take it,you slice the seedpod, and the milk that comes
out is what you dry and that is opium. If we base the legalization upon the fact that
marijuana is natural, you grow it, can I grow opium then in my backyard? I want to
know. I will remind you that everyone should educate themselves on what happened to
Portland, Oregon and what they are dealing with right now when they legalized
fentanyl. They actually did that. Where is this all going to lead?Are we going to live in
a society where just anything is acceptable in regard to this subject if it is based upon
the individual's choice? Should we have any regulation at all? If it is the individual's
choice, let them do what they want. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else.
Mr. Castello: Thank you again for giving me this
opportunity. My name is Alvin Castello, everyone calls me Bino. I just believe for me
this plant has existed from the beginning of time, I believe, because it has genetically
COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 13, 2024
been going back in time. We can trace that. For thousands of years, they have been
using this plant. I just want to have access for everyone and have the freedom for that
so they can heal themselves in many ways with cannabis. This is just one (1) plant from
all the plants that we can utilize to help each other, to make things sustainable, to
economics, to health, to mental health. It is all about education and how we can regulate
the products that come to us. I believe that alcohol and tobacco are much worse than
that, so I just want to have access for everyone to have that freedom to clean medicine,
and that is my point. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Tamara.
Ms. Lawrence: I am Tamara Lawrence, again. I just sort of
wanted to close off by saying"stop being the problem before it starts" is usually the best
prevention. With that being said, for those who favor legalization for this bill, are you
ready to help coalitions, like ours, in prevention and education?Are you ready to make
that commitment because we have been here, we are doing all this work, and it has
been hard to get volunteers? It has been hard to get people involved in what we are
doing and it sucks. Sometimes, we have three (3) people show up to our meetings. We
are working really hard. I am shaking because this holds close to home. It is not just
because it is my job, but because it is something we are so passionate about, too. If you
are willing, search up our coalition. Be willing to help us and also understand our point
of view. Thank you for listening today. I appreciate it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember DeCosta: You impressed me and Council Chair Rapozo
yesterday when we met with you and...
Ms. Lawrence: Sariah.
Councilmember DeCosta: Sariah. I was very impressed. You made a
comment and I want you to elaborate on it for me. You said being a mother of three (3),
you noticed that your own children learn more from your actions than what you say. I
have been a teacher for twenty-three (23) years, and I have taught on the Westside for
twenty (20) years. Ten (10) years at the high school, actually. I believe that it is more
about what you do than what you say. Educate the people listening today on that
comment you made. Why is that so important?
Ms. Lawrence: It goes in a sense of, say, I am eating chocolate
at home. I can tell my child, "No, you cannot have chocolate. It is almost bedtime," but
I am eating it. In that sense, it is sort of like if I am smoking marijuana because I can
just go and get it whenever I please, that it is going to be okay for my children to do it.
Even if you have all of these regulations and restrictions, it might be clean, it might not
be laced, or whatever that may be, the youth are still going to have access to it. Of
course, it comes down to personal choice and it is what we can do as parents, but not all
parents have the ability to say, "These are the effects. You cannot use this until you are
twenty-one (21) or when it is legal for you to buy it," and so forth, and then it comes
down to the choice of the youth. I have noticed within my line of work that it is prevalent.
These children will go and do it. I do not mean to speak for all of them, because we have
COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 13, 2024
some here who see different views, and those are the children who are educated to know
that, "I will not do it. I will not use it," but at some point, there is some youth that is
going to and then it goes to their peers, and youth like to hear from you. I look at in a
sense of if there is more access to it, then more youth. We can work, get data, and ask
our Kaua`i youth what that would look like, too, so we are working on getting those
numbers.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you.
Ms. Lawrence: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have a Zoom testifier who only used her
first three (3) minutes, so we will bring back Wendy for her second three (3) minutes.
Ms. Gibson-Viviani: Thank you very much. I am a cannabis nurse
educator. I have been a member of the Cannabis Nurses Association for ten (10) years
and am on their Education Committee. Just last year, the American Nursing
Association granted cannabis nurses specialty recognition, so we are currently working
on educational programs, mostly for other nurses, to get them certified as cannabis
nurses, but it has been my mission for the last ten (10) years to education anyone who
will sit still for an hour and wants to learn about how your body produces
neurotransmitters that are like cannabidiol (CBD) and THC, and how the chemicals in
the plant work on your body. I would be happy to be involved in any educational project
that someone wants me to be involved in. I do not charge for my services.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Wendy. Everyone else had their
six (6) minutes. Is there any further discussion? Councilmember Kagawa, I think you
had your hand up.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. I think the success today was we
had three (3) students from Waimea who came up and provided testimony. I think that
it is a huge accomplishment for the Council to have an item on when we have high
schools attend. We had three (3) of them step up. I think Kaua`i students generally are
shy about coming up, so I applaud you. Thank you for bringing it today. We had one (1)
in favor and two (2) against, and the great thing is that all your testimonies, whether
they agree with my position or not, it is totally true. We all have different opinions,
different upbringings, different experiences with cannabis, and seeing people go
through it. Similar to Councilmember DeCosta, I taught for eighteen (18) years at
Kapa'a High School, two (2) years at Chiefess Kamakahelei Middle School, and two (2)
years at Waimea High School. That is a long time to be a high school teacher, and I have
seen some incidences of cannabis affecting some students with similar problems that
the coalition is mentioning, but I think it all comes back down to parenting, support,
and in those cases that I have seen, I think it is not rocket science to see why certain
students are badly affected by it.
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as not present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 13, 2024
Councilmember Kagawa: In a lot of cases, it was not just that as well.
Like Nobu said, it can be a gateway drug. I think it does not help. Again, if you pick out
one (1) incident and you make a decision, it is not a good decision because it is so
complicated—our community, our lives. Twenty-four (24) states out of fifty (50) in the
United States have approved recreational marijuana. That is huge. Ten (10) or
fifteen (15) years ago, there were zero (0). In those years, you have almost half (%) of
the United States that have legalized recreational marijuana. It is moving in the
direction. Again, it is not our call on the County Council, but I appreciate it, especially
the Waimea High School students and Julia who brought them here, because I really
appreciate you folks taking an interest in government. We need that. For a better
government, we are going to need that in more years to come. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. This heated topic for most people is
unusual for me because I feel so neutral towards it.
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as present.)
Councilmember Cowden: My body chemistry does not allow me to engage
in any inebriants and I never have, so I speak from inexperience as a personal user.
When I arrived at the North Shore of Kaua`i at twenty-one (21) in the early `80s the
cannabis or marijuana...you can call it marijuana. I do not see it as a negative word,
but the cannabis industry was dominant in our thriving economy. It was really clear in
the jobs I worked in and the business I had. After Green Harvest, which was called
"Roundup," they rounded up and ended the high prevalence of cannabis...the
prevalence of heroin first, and cocaine was sort of in there anyway, but cocaine came
much harder, crack for a while, and then methamphetamines, and definitely
prescription anti-depressants or people using these prescription drugs that came later
off the internet, called Zolly or whatever, when you buy those on the black market.
Those took over and it was super evident as a businessperson. We had to basically start
locking the bathrooms and we would have needles in the bathroom. People would be
overdosing in the parking lot and people were broke because they were not working well
and spending all kinds of money. They probably were not broke before because they
were making money on the industry. Theft, overdose, dangerous behavior, and
community distress became more evident. I used to joke and say I could write a master's
thesis on it. Our legal North Shore economy also shifted to real estate sales and vacation
rentals right when marijuana, or cannabis, was shut down, so housing displacement
started to become really prominent. I am bringing up the North Shore because I did not
hang in the rest of the island so much, but it seemed like at least there it was more
prevalent. I doubt it was as strong in other areas. Like Councilmember Kagawa, it is
uncomfortable, really uncomfortable for me to be forced into a choice of what I consider
two (2) unacceptable opportunities. One is SB 3335. It has concerning provisions that
may have unintended consequences. Kim Coco's testimony about the local farmers is an
example. Criminalizing people between eighteen (18) and twenty-one (21) is another
thing that is a little uncomfortable for me. Not a little. It is a lot uncomfortable for me.
I do not know why we are going to hurt that particular area. Our current cannabis
policies have layers of collateral damage with unwanted consequences. It was said this
is the most divisive thing. No, it does not seem like it to me. We have had a deeply
COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 13, 2024
divisive State policy driving fear of testifying. We recently went through three (3) years
of a far more contentious difference of opinion on a medical substance, and the experts
were inaccurate. I was in that twenty percent (20%) minority, so I continue and I still
continue that censorship...you cannot even speak to make a mistake. My temperament
is to be a law-abiding citizen. I am ridiculously straight and I struggle to sleep soundly.
If cannabis gummies were openly legal, I would consider giving it a try, so I could sleep
the night with modest expectations. I do not respond to almost any type of drug, at least
not positively, but I would give it a try. As an elected official, I have never even
considered the risk of the stigmatization of a medical card. With this type of hair—
Italian wild hair—everyone would think I had a problem. They think it even when it is
not true. All throughout high school they thought it. Just look at my hair. Most people
can drink alcohol or use cannabis responsibly. I want to acknowledge that there is...I
definitely watch unhealthy behavior, unhealthy consequences of overuse or wrong use
for either party, so I am just acknowledging that is a problem. I do not want to be voting
on this, but I have to. It is important. I wish the bill was better.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Councilmember DeCosta.
Councilmember DeCosta: I would like to thank all the Councilmembers
who are coming out and stating their opinion, because it is huge on them, because really,
we did not have to. The Chair took a stance on this and I believe he did it because he
cares about the youth, and I believe all seven (7) of us care about the youth. Whether
we are for it or against it, I think the youth are at our forefront. I have been hearing a
few things from our community, and I want to thank Waimea High School's youth for
coming out. You folks are going to be adults soon. I was hoping that all of you would
have given a statement. We did not hear it, but it seems like the majority of the room
does not support the Resolution. I think there was one (1) who supports it. I think if I
asked all of you individually what would you say, I would like to see what your answer
was. I do know I am sort of a public figure. I have been a Councilmember. I see my
two (2) students out there who I like to think look up to Uncle Bill. Waimea High School
students, when I went out there with you folks, what did we do? I did a video on
Instagram with that Waimea Runs The Gulch. I remember that you folks wanted to do
it with Uncle Bill, because you folks associate me with my idea. I will tell you folks why
I believe in this so much. This is a personal story. I am just going to relate with what
you said. I have done a few of my videos smoking a cigar while talking about political
issues. There are so many children now, even my own sons, who like to smoke cigars
because Uncle Bill smokes cigars. That is an example of role modeling. I am not telling
you that if the bill passes that having mentors on the side of the street either smoking
a joint or taking a Gummi Bear are going to influence our youth, but I do believe that
some of that will transpire through this, so as an educator and as a mentor, I am not
going to support legalizing marijuana. I am not saying that I do not support the medical
card that people have. I do not think that the government does a good job on regulation.
I think the government promises a whole bunch of money that they are going to get in
taxes, but it never trickles down to what they say they are going to do with the money.
I spoke to councilmembers from Colorado and Oregon when we went to
Washington, D.C., and asked them what their opinion is. They told me that they
honestly wish they did not legalize it. Some of the areas of Portland and some of the
areas of Colorado are sort of a circus when you go down to those shops. There are a
bunch of stoners hanging around and getting their gummies or joints. It is just not some
COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 13, 2024
place you walk your children to get a bagel or a cup of coffee. I think Kaua`i has a motif
of us being an old-school community where we raise our children in a wholesome
environment, we go to O`ahu to play a little bit, but we always come back to our little
island. I would hate to see our little island change. I am sorry if I offended anyone here
today, but I am not going to be supporting the legalization of marijuana, and I will
support the Resolution. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Primarily, I want to say mahalo nui loa to
everyone for participating with us and testifying, especially the three (3) Waimea High
School students. We heard very compelling and some even emotional testimony from
both sides, and this is not an easy issue to vote on. Like I said, basically, there is the
personal freedom side and also the public safety side. For me, still, based especially on
the testimony from our Chief of Police, I will lean more towards the public safety side.
I have just a couple of other points from his testimony, because we heard one (1)testifier
say there are different studies that will say different things. She said that the highway
safety was better, but from the study provided by the Chief of Police from the University
of Illinois, Chicago, on average, recreational marijuana on markets across seven (7)
states were associated with a ten-percent increase of motor vehicle accidents, and
four (4) of those seven (7) states saw significant increases—Colorado, sixteen
percent (16%); Oregon, twenty-two percent (22%); Alaska, twenty percent (20%); and
California, fourteen percent (14%)—and that study was from March 28, 2023,
University of Illinois in Chicago. The Chief of Police spoke specifically about their
issues. He said the increase in gun violence and the expansion of our gun laws in Hawai`i
have given many residents grave concerns. In the states that have legalized marijuana,
lawsuits and laws have granted daily marijuana users the right to carry firearms in
conflict with the Federal law. In New Jersey, one (1)police union is suing a Police Chief
for terminating officers who were found to be using marijuana in violation of Federal
law and department policy. At least two (2) of the terminated officers have been
reinstated. Police officers are tasked with making critical life and death decisions, often
with very little time. Allowing police officers, first responders, and our keiki's school bus
drivers, as an example, to use marijuana daily before coming to work is not a risk that
we should take. The last point he said, too, was commercializing cannabis is about
creating Big Tobacco 2.0 that will forever change the culture of our community and
result in the proliferation and expansion of marijuana use in our public spaces, in our
homes, and most importantly, increased marijuana use by our keiki. Supporting the
commercialization of marijuana is telling our children that smoking marijuana is just a
part of growing up.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Carvalho.
Councilmember Carvalho: Yes. I just wanted to thank the students who
came up and spoke and mahalo for just your presence. It is very important. I just
wanted to emphasize that this is not about medical...I know there was the kapuna
side that was brought up and the youth side, but the medical marijuana and the hemp
is not. This is recreational marijuana. That is the specific part right there. For me, it
is about our youth and I have said it before. I appreciate all the discussion. It went
back and forth, but just making that statement alone, for me. There are numerous
COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 13, 2024
stories, issues, and concerns that address the youth part of it on a personal note, but
at the same time, as a Councilmember, I feel strongly that the recreational marijuana
part is hard for me. I appreciate all the discussion and bringing it to the table, and
we have gone through numerous outreach opportunities with our Police Department
and everyone else, but for me, it is really hard. I think we have to move forward, keep
our youth safe, and not offer another option, if you will...that is how I look at it...and
then go from there. I appreciate the discussion and thank you folks, again, for being
here. Mahalo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: I truly appreciate this discussion. It is one of
those things where it is super uncomfortable being in support of legalizing something
that is illegal. It is just a weird thing, mainly because for about one hundred (100)
years we have told that story to the community when thousands of years before it
was not that story. You see this often in a lot of communities, especially in indigenous
communities where a practice was once a practice, and now becomes an illegal act.
One of the things I most appreciate about this, even though it is a Resolution and it
is not going to change much, is that we can sit in a room and disagree, and model the
behavior of having these discussions. I think that is probably the biggest take away
of mine in this discussion. It is that we can sit in a room, not agree on a perspective,
and have a civil discussion. I think modeling that to our youth on a topic that can
severely affect you folks negatively and positively shows that you can model good
behavior, and behavior is part of being shown what is the right thing and what is the
wrong thing to do, but most importantly, to have the communication in the process. I
think this is one fine example of that. I like to use the example of sugar. Sugar is
highly legal. You can get sugar at any age. You can get it right when you are born.
You can get it before you are born. We are experiencing this right now, and my wife
might not appreciate me sharing this because it is personal information, but we are
going through gestational diabetes. My wife is pregnant. It is not because she has a
substance abuse of sugar. Sugar is available, but in order for us to understand the
ramifications, have these discussions, and make the decisions, we need access to
information, we need access to healthcare, and we need access to people who are
willing to talk openly about it and have good discussions about it. Unfortunately, we
cannot do that safely without being reprimanded socially and legally around
cannabis, because it is not legal. That is why I am for Federally legalizing the use of
adult-use cannabis, for descheduling it, for allowing us to do the necessary research,
like all substances that we had before, to truly understand the ramifications of it and
also to make good decisions and model good behavior. Ultimately, that is the
conversation that I am loving right now. I love to see the conversation from youth and
all the way to kupuna of how we can address these issues without the stigmatization
that has been ongoing, especially in the United States and across our communities.
If we can have these discussions on all the other categories and difficulties we have,
imagine how much better our community would be. Just to have high school students
in here to have that type of conversation around something that feels so inappropriate
from a lot of people is really important, and we could not have it if we did not have
an opposing perspective and that this Resolution was brought up, so I truly
appreciate our Chair for bringing this Resolution up, because I never thought I would
ever be having this conversation as a Councilmember on this floor, and actually really
COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 13, 2024
love it, because one (1), it pushed me to really understand what the research is out
there and understand why I feel the way I feel and change. I changed positions. One
thing that I truly understand and that I have not fully understood is how much care
we have for our children and why this should be carefully done. That is why I am in
support of looking at it in that perspective. Ultimately, my decision is in opposition
to this Resolution in hopes that, in the long run, we can change our perspective on
this specific substance so that we can manage it properly.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else? If not, I will
wrap it up. Let me give you my background. From nineteen (19) years old, I was a
cop. I worked as a police officer from the age of nineteen (19), which is very young to
be a cop, and I did that for thirteen (13) years. I cannot tell you how many times I
had to deal with issues involving children who had substance abuse issues. From
there, I became a private investigator and I cannot tell you how many times that I
had to work with parents of children who may have been arrested or gotten into
trouble because of drugs. Then I went to work for the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney as an investigator there, and all throughout that entire time I was very
active with youth sports and I cannot tell you how many times my ear was there to
listen to parents talking about their children. Do you know what the common
response was? I am sorry, because there are not enough beds, there are not enough
treatment programs. It is sad. I will tell you this, and I do not care what any
study...because you can find a study to justify your position, so I will not get into the
debate about what was said today. I have my source of information and I rely on that,
which I consider valid information, and that is how I make by decision. I will tell you
this though, there is no doubt that there is a mental health crisis in our State. No one
can dispute that. There are not enough services in this State for our children and for
adults who have mental health problems. Honestly, for Kaua`i and the other
neighboring islands, it is non-existent. We also know that thirty percent (30%) of
people who use marijuana will develop substance abuse disorder, which is addiction.
We know that, and I will challenge anyone to show me that data that is not true. I
know one (1) of the speakers...I think it was Coco Iwamoto who said the Governor is
a physician and he supports it. Our Governor was a physician when he was working
in the emergency room (E.R.). He is a politician now. He does not answer to the
patients. He answers to the constituents, because Scott Miscovich, M.D., who is a
medical doctor and is not an elected office, he is a very good friend of Governor Green,
and is also a prescriber of medical marijuana, stands in very opposition to
recreational marijuana. He is in the field. He has boots on the ground. He is not a
politician. I know she said, "I would rather trust a physician versus the Attorney
General." Then listen to a real doctor who is practicing in the field, like Dr. Miscovich,
who says strongly and boldly. I suggest you folks watch him and listen to his
testimony. I heard a lot today again from the industry about the financial benefit,
but, especially for the children, when you get into a position of leadership and
decision-making, you need to think beyond money. What is the social impact? What
is the cost of social impact? I can show you a study that says for every dollar we
receive in marijuana tax revenue, we pay four dollars and fifty cents ($4.50) in social
impact costs. Some would dispute that study, but it is a study that was done. Again,
marijuana is decriminalized. Remember, we talked about the data and this chart that
Niko provided. I respect him and he is very intelligent, but he cannot formally support
the bill, so in essence, he sort of supports the Resolution. He used the data from before
COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 13, 2024
we decriminalized marijuana, so when you look at this you are like, "Oh my God," but
in reality, when we decriminalized marijuana, the number of arrests dropped
tremendously. I can sway your opinion right now if I show you this chart, but it is not
the...it ends in 2020. It is 2024, and it has been almost five (5) years since marijuana,
has been decriminalized. In other words, you will not get arrested for personal-use
marijuana, but that does not tell that story, so I caution, especially young ones, when
you listen to all the data and studies, do your own research. In fact, there was a new
study that just came out that said daily users of marijuana have a twenty-five
percent (25%) higher chance of getting a hard attack, and I believe it was forty
percent (40%) more chance of getting a stroke than people who do not do marijuana.
It is not Mel Rapozo's data. Let us put all the data on the table, not just the one that
benefits your position. Again, chasing the money and using the fact that all these
other states have done it so we should do it, too, is dangerous. Forty-eight (48) states
have legalized gambling. Should we do it? I see Councilmember Kagawa shaking his
head. Should we? Are we ready for the social impacts of gambling in Hawai`i? Do we
have the infrastructure in place to address addiction? Forty-eight (48) other states
have it. It will generate revenue, but we will generate revenue so we can teach
children that gambling is bad. We need to legalize it first, so we can generate revenue.
That is backwards. What about prostitution? Now, Councilmember Kagawa says no.
What is the difference? It is personal choice. Let the adults do it. We will generate
revenue. What would the discussion be today if it was prostitution? Why would that
be illegal? You will make sure it is safe. You have medical cards. Girls, you do your
thing, and then the guys can come in and do their thing, and we will tax the crap out
of them so we can teach the children how bad prostitution is. If we are chasing money,
there are a lot of things that we can do. Why not just legalize methamphetamines,
right? If money is what we are targeting, we need to consider the social impacts. For
our children, if you have not been to Oregon, if you have not walked the streets of
Portland, if you have not walked the streets of Denver, Colorado, if you have not
walked the streets of Seattle, Washington, go do it, because I can tell you right now,
what is difficult for me to accept is that on this beautiful island of Kaua`i, you walk
down Rice Street and you see there is a nectar marijuana store. It is all nice and
clean, with a jewelry showcase inside with all the different variations of marijuana.
It is perfectly legal for anyone, except the children, of course. Do you think the
children will not say, "Uncle, I will give you twenty dollars ($20). Can you go buy me
some weed?" Why are we making it more accessible? Councilmember Cowden made
the statement that really sums up my argument. What did she say? She said, "If it
was legal, I would give it a try."
Councilmember Cowden: A Gummi Bear to sleep.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am just saying that regardless of whether it
is a Gummi Bear or a joint, my point is this: If we make it legal, it will create more
users. For the reason "because it is legal now," the message that we send to our
children, the message that we send to our community...and again, I appreciate the
medical marijuana industry. This has nothing to do with medical marijuana. Sir, I
know you are looking at me like, "Shut your mouth,"but the bottom line is the medical
marijuana is something that...
(Note: From the gallery, the following discussion occurred:
COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 13, 2024
Mr. Castello: I do not feel anything. I am just listening to
you. If you are bringing it across like that, I am here. It is pono.
Council Chair Rapozo: I appreciate your...
Mr. Castello: I am not picking on anyone.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, good. The medical marijuana program is
something that this Council...
Mr. Castello: I do not appreciate it.)
Council Chair Rapozo: I apologize for that, but I am just saying this
does not talk about or reference medical marijuana at all, so for the kapuna who need
the medication, they can get it. For anyone in the public that needs the medical
marijuana, this does not impact that. It simply impacts the recreational marijuana.
With that, my time is up. Is there any further discussion? Roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2024-12, Draft 1, was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Carvalho, DeCosta, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 4,
AGAINST ADOPTION: Bulosan, Cowden, Kagawa TOTAL— 3,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— O.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The motion passes.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. We need to take a break
for lunch, we need to take a caption break. We do have the Waimea High School
students here. Councilmember Bulosan, at this time I want to turn it over to you. How
are we on the captioner? Can she hang on for about ten (10) minutes? Is anyone in
communication with her?We will recess, but will continue filming, because the Waimea
High School students have a presentation for us. Go ahead, Councilmember Bulosan.
Councilmember Bulosan: Thank you so much, Chair and
Councilmembers. In the interest of time, we are actually going to skip the presentation
because their bus is leaving, but I did want to acknowledge Yvette and that they are
Kaua`i Community College early college student, so not only are they Waimea High
School students, but they are also attending Kaua`i Community College.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you want to bring someone up? What time
is the bus?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended:
YVETTE S. AMSHOFF, Constituent Relations Coordinator: Their bus is
leaving at 1:00 p.m., and they want to eat lunch.
COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Before they board the bus?
Ms. Amshoff: We can have them come back for the
presentation another time.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: I will tell you what we will do. We will actually
make it an agenda item with an update on the school lunch program. Is that okay?
Thank you, folks. I am sorry. With that we will break for lunch and we will be back at
1:45 p.m.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:48 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 1:45 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Cowden and Councilmember Kagawa were noted as not
present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Can we have the next item, please?
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2024-33 Communication(02/01/2024)from the County Engineer, requesting
Council approval to dispose of various records, pursuant to Hawai`i Revised
Statutes (HRS) Section 46-43 and Resolution No. 2021-48 (2021), which have been kept
for over seven (7) years and are no longer of use or value.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-33, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? I think we heard from
the Administration last week. Is there any discussion on some of these items?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-33 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Cowden and Councilmember Kagawa were noted as silent (not
present), but shall be recorded as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-54 Communication (02/18/2024) from the Director of Economic
Development, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend funds from
the Hawai`i Tourism Authority, in the amount of$62,830.00, to support funding for the
COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 13, 2024
continuation of coordination of cruise ship greetings at the Nawiliwili Harbor, and to
indemnify the Hawai`i Tourism Authority, from March through December 2024.
(Councilmember Cowden was noted as present.)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-54, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony? Is
the Office of Economic Development (OED) here?
Councilmember Bulosan: They were here.
Councilmember Carvalho: She was here.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Is there any discussion? Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-54 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-55 Communication (02/20/2024) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal funds in the
amount of $236,881.00, and to indemnify the State of Hawai`i, Department of the
Attorney General, for the Kaua`i Victims of Crime Act (VOCA) Expansion
Project 22-V2-03 (Victim/Witness program) for the period July 1, 2024 through
June 30, 2025.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-55, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
The being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. I just take the
opportunity every time this comes up. I have personal experience with the
Victim/Witness Program and I am just in support. It is essential. If you become a victim
of crime and you have never had that happen before, you need this because it is a very
traumatic experience. My Victim/Witness Counselor has always been Marla Torres
Lam, and she has become a friend, so I am just in support of this program.
COUNCIL MEETING 55 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
audience wishing to testify? If not, is there any further discussion on the Office of the
Prosecuting Attorney's (OPA's) grant request? This is a reoccurring grant and I also
wanted to note that this grant includes the funding for the Young Women's Christian
Association (YWCA) Sexual Assault Treatment Program as well as the shelter, which
is very critical for our County.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2024-55 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
C 2024-56 Communication (02/21/2024) from the Chief of Police and
Paul N. Applegate, Acting Assistant Chief, requesting Council approval of the
indemnification and standard of care provisions contained in the Thales DIS USA, Inc.'s
Professional Services Agreement, to be used to access the Hawai`i Law Enforcement
Information Retrieval System (HLEIRS) which provides law enforcement with
information that helps their investigations.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-56, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony? Is
the Kaua`i Police Department (KPD) here?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
Councilmember Bulosan: They were here.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is just the indemnification agreement. If I
am not mistaken, we approved the grant.
Councilmember Cowden: Chair, point of order. I am sorry. I walked up
stairs as soon as the door knocked. Did we complete C 2024-33, the records piece that
was a big issue last time?
Council Chair Rapozo: We did.
Councilmember Cowden: Did we get an amended list?
Council Chair Rapozo: It was approved as submitted.
Councilmember Cowden: After all that we discussed about it? We had no
conversation, I walked up the stairs, and it was a done deal?
COUNCIL MEETING 56 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: We requested for public testimony or
discussion and there was none.
Councilmember Cowden: Is it finished? Will they throw all those records
away?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, they have the authority. They do.
Councilmember Cowden: Did you change your position?
Council Chair Rapozo: It was not that I changed my position, but it
was very clear that this Council was supportive of the move. We had extensive
discussion at the Committee level as well as the Council level.
Councilmember Cowden: I thought we decided "no"?
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion was to defer, and then it was
approved last week to get it to the Council. Are they not here? Does anyone need KPD
here for this item?
Councilmember DeCosta: No.
Councilmember Carvalho: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
The motion to approve C 2024-56 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
C 2024-58 Communication (02/22/2024) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal funds in the
amount of $101,000.00, from the Fiscal Year 2022 Edward Byrne Memorial Justice
Assistance Grant (JAG), to support a 0.50 Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) Deputy
Prosecuting Attorney who will work with the Kaua`i Police Department Vice
Investigators and focus fifty percent (50%) of their time on methamphetamine and
opioid focused prosecution, as well as fringe benefits and office supplies for this position
for the anticipated period of July 1, 2024 to June 30, 2025.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2024-58, seconded by
Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. Councilmembers,
please bear with me while I try to get this across. Back at the Special Council Meeting
COUNCIL MEETING 57 MARCH 13, 2024
that we just had, I read to you something and it was from the prior year for this grant
request. This year, this is the current request from the OPA and it reads, "The Office of
the Prosecuting Attorney for the County of Kaua`i estimates that illegal drug use is the
driving force behind at least 80% of all crimes committed on Kaua`i. These crimes
include drug possession and distribution, theft, traffic crashes, forgery, murder,
domestic violence, and other assaults." I think you remember that is what I read last
time. My concern is that it seems to stay the same year after year. I want to clarify as I
have before, this is not to pick on the OPA or the current Administration. I feel, as I
expressed myself at the Special Council Meeting, that I have a deep concern for the
current situation with drugs. Considering that we just discussed the resolution by Chair
and all the testimony that was given and I am asking with all due respect that someone,
some Councilmember, take a look at this and work with the Prosecuting Attorney (PA)
and also with KPD. I would like to see some statistics and have an open discussion, like
Councilmember Bulosan said about what we just had with the resolution, so that we
could come to some kind of understanding of what the problem is or that it appears that
we are not making any progress. I have gotten that out. Again, this is not a "got you,"
or that we are on a witch hunt or anything. An open discussion among all of us so that
we can identify the problems, because it does not appear that what we are doing is
working. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else in the
audience wishing to testify? Could Jamie, the Grants Coordinator, come up?
JAMIE SHANKS, Grant Coordinator: Good afternoon. Jamie Shanks, Grant
Coordinator for the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you for being here. Just for the public's
information, Prosecuting Attorney Rebecca Like is ill today. She is ill and could not
make it today. She did email me late last night telling me that she was not going to be
here. On the "Performance Indicators And Reporting" is that something you must
obviously maintain and send back to the granting authorities?
Ms. Shanks: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have that information from last year's
grant? It does not need to be available today.
Ms. Shanks: That is something that we report. We do
six-month report reviews or progress reports to the AG's office that we can provide to
you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Let us do that. Thank you.Are there any
other questions for Jamie? If not, thank you.
Councilmember DeCosta: Thank you for stepping in.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 58 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Seeing none.
The motion to approve C 2024-58 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2024-59 Communication(02/23/2024) from the Deputy Director of Planning,
requesting Council approval to receive and expend funds from the Federal Highway
Administration (FHWA) and the Hawai`i State Department of Transportation (HDOT)
in the amount of $544,448.00, and to indemnify the State of Hawai`i, to establish a
County Safe Routes to School Program and an Administrator. Funding will also
be used for benefits, materials, supplies, and necessary travel expenses for a
three-and-a-half-year period, with no local match needed.
Councilmember Carvalho moved to approve C 2024-59, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Jodi, could you come up? I have a question.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
JODI A. HIGUCHI SAYEGUSA, Deputy Planning Director: Good
afternoon. Jodi Higuchi Sayegusa, Deputy Director of the Planning Director. Here with
me is Marie Williams, our long-range division head.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I have a question, because this is
basically a three-and-a-half-year grant. It will fund three and a half (3%) years of the
program. Will this be creating a new position at the County, the Administrator?
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: That is correct. It is a new position. It will be
premised on being temporary. It is a three-and-a-half-year program.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, that was my question. Obviously, if the
funding stops from the State, the County is not on the hook to continue funding that
position.
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is that one hundred percent (100%) funding of
the position?
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: It is. Marie is probably the best person to ask
on the opportunity, but it is my understanding that it is.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? Councilmember
Cowden.
COUNCIL MEETING 59 MARCH 13, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: Will that position be in the Planning
Department?
MARIE L. WILLIAMS, Planning Program Manager: Yes, the position
will be housed in the Planning Department, and it will also be working closely with
Michael Moule of the Department of Public Works and his office.
Councilmember Cowden: That person's desk might actually be over there
in the Roads Division? That happens sometimes.
Ms. Williams: Yes. We were thinking of doing an
arrangement where this person would be directly supervised by someone in the
Planning Department, but their office space would be in the Department of Public
Works so that they could interact with the engineers and staff of the Department of
Public Works.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for the breakfast we had the other
day, when we were all looking at this process. Do we have a number of schools that are
planning to do this?
Ms. Williams: That would be part of the job of the staff
person—reaching out to our fifteen (15) public schools and I believe we also have
eight (8) to ten (10)private or charter schools, and seeing who is willing and would want
to develop a Safe Routes to School (SRTS) Program.
Councilmember Cowden: The reason why I am asking is it sounds like,
at some level, we are in the position that person will be prospecting, but I know a lot of
these schools sort of already have some ideas. I know at Kapa'a Elementary School,
people on the Parent Teacher Student Association (PTSA) have at least spoken about
where they think and some roads. The reason I am asking is if we had five (5) waiting
in the wings, then in three and a half(31/2 )years we would maybe have those addressed,
and then a few more started. If we are just prospecting, three and a half (3%) years
might not be enough time, right, if all of a sudden there are fifteen (15) schools that
want it. I was just trying to get a framework to see if we are likely...I am trying to use
a sports metaphor...how likely we are going to "get a homerun" when we try and do
this. Are we going to complete some projects, because it is not a short process?
Ms. Williams: Yes, that is completely true and I think it might
be unrealistic to expect a robust Safe Routes to School Program at all of our schools, but
they absolutely would have to prioritize and probably work with those schools that have
the greatest need, the most safety concerns, and the parents and teachers who want to
be involved.
Councilmember Cowden: My instinct is we would be doing good if we got
five (5) schools in three (3) years. Do we have an expectation or any sort of goals?
Ms. Williams: That is part of the requirement of receiving this
funding. Once this position is filled, they would have to develop a work plan and submit
a progress report every year.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 MARCH 13, 2024
Councilmember Cowden: Did we not set out goals in the application for
the grant?
Ms. Williams: Not specific goals. We did indicate that the
ultimate goal was to address the safety concerns identified by the schools, and have
more students who can safely walk and bike to school.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Is this a grant that you applied for previously?
Ms. Williams: It was not a grant. This is a pot of funding that
HDOT had. The money was about to lapse, so they actually reached out to us and said
the money could be used specifically for Safe Routes to School.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Are there grants that could serve the same
purpose?
Ms. Williams: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Because it says, "Toward the end of the funding
period, the County will assess and evaluate the program and if deemed necessary, the
County will seek additional SRTS grant funding to continue the program."
Ms. Williams: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: You already know that there are funds
available after three and a half(31/2) years that you could be going after if you want to
continue the program?
Ms. Williams: I think the assumption is that those funds
would continue to be there. I know the other counties have a Safe Routes to School staff
person. I think at least two (2) of those positions are funded through grants, and they
have been filled for quite a while. I think it is at least five (5) years.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It is rather important.
Ms. Williams: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 61 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Prior to this funding, has our Safe Routes to
School Program, which has been pretty impressive, been done in-house with County
funding with internal staff or have we used these types of funds in the past?
Ms. Williams: The County has successfully applied and
implemented some Safe Routes to School projects through the Department of Public
Works and the assistance of Get Fit Kaua`i's Bev Brody. She helps move along Safe
Routes to School Programs, such as the Walk to School Days. This would just enhance
our capacity to do Safe Routes to School projects and do all of the legwork needed to do
a successful project, such as the outreach to the neighborhood, families, teachers, and
the school administration.
Council Chair Rapozo: Has it pretty much been project-based?
Ms. Williams: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Would we decide on a project and then request
grant funds for the project versus having a program in place with an administrator?
Ms. Williams: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Will this allow us to have a full-time
administrator to explore opportunities across the island?
Ms. Williams: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I understand. Thank you. Are there any other
questions? If not, thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Seeing
none. Is there any further discussion? Councilmember Cowden.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to thank them for raising their hand
for this funding. Kilauea Elementary School, which is near my house, has a Safe Routes
to School. Koloa Elementary School is another example. If people are listening and they
feel like there are dangerous areas...I know Hanama`ulu has really wanted something
for some time. I think they have had some improvements. I think this is a really
important way to prioritize some funding and some efforts, so I support what you are
doing and I am saying, "Thank you."
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any other discussion?
Seeing none.
COUNCIL MEETING 62 MARCH 13, 2024
The motion to approve C 2024-59 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
CLAIMS:
C 2024-60 Communication (02/29/2024) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by the Estate of Debra Judy McLeod
Figuerres and Donald Lindsey by its Personal Representative Stacey Palomar, for loss
of life and medical bills, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i.
C 2024-61 Communication (02/29/2024) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by the Estate of Paul S. Carvalho by its
Personal Representative Germaine Solano, for personal injuries, pursuant to
Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2024-60 and C 2024-61 to the Office of
the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded
by Councilmember DeCosta.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion to refer C 2024-60 and C 2024-61 to the Office of the County Attorney
for disposition and/or report back to the Council was then put, and unanimously
carried (Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of
Kauai, Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be
recorded as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
PUBLIC WORKS & VETERANS SERVICES COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PWVS 2024-03) submitted by the Public Works & Veterans
Services Committee, recommending that the following be Approved:
COUNCIL MEETING 63 MARCH 13, 2024
"C 2024-33 — Communication (02/01/2024) from the County Engineer,
requesting Council approval to dispose of various records, pursuant to Hawai`i
Revised Statutes (HRS) Section 46-43 and Resolution No. 2021-48 (2021), which
have been kept for over seven (7) years and are no longer of use or value. (List of
various records to be disposed of on file in the Office of the County Clerk.),"
A report (No. CR-PWVS 2024-04) submitted by the Public Works & Veterans
Services Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"PWVS 2024-03 — Communication (02/01/2024) from Council Chair
Rapozo, requesting the presence of the County Engineer and Kali Watson,
Chairman, Department of Hawaiian Home Lands, Hawaiian Homes
Commission, to provide an update on the status of the improvements to the
Wailua Wastewater Treatment Plant (WWTP) and the Administration's future
plans to relocate the WWTP,"
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the reports, seconded by
Councilmember Carvalho.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the reports was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
PLANNING COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PL 2024-01) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"PL 2024-01 — Communication (01/31/2024) from Councilmember
Cowden, requesting the presence of Leimana K. DaMate, Executive Director,
and Leialoha "Rocky" Kaluhiwa, State Chair, Hawai`i State Aha Moku, to
provide a briefing relating to the Ka Pa`akai Analysis,"
Councilmember Carvalho moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
COUNCIL MEETING 64 MARCH 13, 2024
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Seeing none.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting proceeded as
follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is carried. That concludes today's
agenda. If there are no objections, this meeting is adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 2:05 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
JADE K. UNTAI N-TANI GAWA
County Clerk -
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