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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-28-2009 Planning Committee Minutes MINUTE S PLANNING CONIlVIITTEE October 28, 2009 A meeting of the Planning Committee of the Council of the County of Kauai, State of Hawaii, was called to order by Councilmember Jay Furfaro, Chair, at the Historic County Building, Room 201, Lihu`e, Kauai, on Wednesday, October 28, 2009, at 10:41 a.m., after which the following members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Jay Furfaro Honorable Daryl W. Kaneshiro Honorable Lani T. Kawahara Honorable Derek S. K. Kawakami Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing, Ex-Officio Member Honorable Dickie Chang, Ex-Officio Member Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Chang. On that note, I'd like to go ahead and call to order the Planning Committee. Let the record reflect that all members are present and we have the first item, may I ask for the clerk's office to read it. DARRELLYNE SIMAO: Minutes of the October 14, 2009 Planning Committee Meeting. Mr. Furfaro: May I have a motion to receive. DARYL W. KANESHIRO: So move. TIM BYNUM: Seconded. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. All those in favor? Committee Members: Aye. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Kaneshiro, seconded by Councilmember Bynum, and unanimously carried, the Minutes of the October 14, 2009 Planning Committee Meeting was received. Mr. Furfaro: Next item please. Ms. Simao: Bill No. 3217, Draft 3 A bill for an ordinance to establish a new article 28, chapter 8, Kauai County code 1987, relating to small wind energy conversion systems. Mr. Furfaro: Okay I'm getting a little ahead of myself here and may I make note to my Committee members, I asked to receive the minutes which was inappropriate. May I ask to approve. Mr. Bynum: Move to approve. Mr. Kaneshiro: Second. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Bynum, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried, the Minutes of the October 14, 2009 Planning Committee Meeting was approved. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. All those in favor? Committee Members: Aye. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. Can we read the next item as you started to. The Committee proceeded on its agenda items as follows and as shown in the following Committee reports which are incorporated herein by reference: Bill No. 2317, Draft 3 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO ESTABLISH A NEW ARTICLE 28, CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, RELATING TO SMALL WIN ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEMS [This item was deferred to the meeting after presentation from the Energy Sustainability Plan.] Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. Just to give a short re-cap for everyone here. Recently we did have the consultants visit with us and I believe they had made opportunities available for individual Councilmembers to get an idea of where they are in their particular project. Their public presentation which was scheduled for today did not fit into their travel schedule and now it could be tentatively November 10th. I will be pursuing a deferral today for the purpose of speaking on this bill after we've had a presentation, so I will ask for a deferral today not date specific but related to post presentation from the consultants. You know therefore as I mentioned I'll be seeking a deferral but to get some clarification, I wanted to make sure that we had someone from Planning today, if there's any clarifications on the current items, they have been called, they are on their way over. But you know the public should know that currently in the residential and agricultural districts, you know wind energy is considered an accessory use no different than putting a flag pole up but it is subject to the CZO's height limits. And so if the structure exceeds the CZO's district height limits then that structure requires a variance and a use permit. You know this does not mean we couldn't have the units existing within the height limits of the CZO but it doesn't give us to me the right kind of clarity on some of the issues that still exist, including the endangered species avian issue, which actually is a federal standard. Although we do have in the bill the fact that there is a disclosure required from an applicant that all applicants that plan to construct or operate a S.W. E.C.S. have to notify DLNR and other Forest Conservation units, it clearly does not tell us from a legal standpoint on getting an incidental permit from Fish and Wildlife who actually is liable, is it the applicant, would it be the county, or would it be the utility company? (inaudible) and so that's some of the clarity that I'm still attempting to get for myself to present to the Committee. Now there are other items that still standout, I touched on the... our exposure, potential exposure to the avian and endangered species act. There is also the question of redundancy that might require some consideration by KIUC by the public utilities commission, who might basically imply and this month has been a perfect example of the slack wind that we have or 2 the fact that we don't have any trade winds visiting us for several days. How do they interpret the potential of replacing energy when a large component might be making demands on the system when there is no wind. There is also brought up by the North Shore residents questions about esthetics in the residential areas and really if you look at the January 13~ standards review... standard review by the Planning Department, they also in their comments indicate there really isn't any standards for construction. So there's two (2) parts to this, how does this fit in our overall energy strategy and secondly some of these questions that deal with endangered species variances to the height limit and actually who is responsible for a taking and a fine. So on that note I think there's enough that we still need to digest and get some expert comments on while this is still in Committee and before we move into the whole Council. So again I want to make sure we understand, currently these are looked at as accessory uses in Ag and residential and they are currently permitted, as long as they do not exceed the CZO height limits in those residential and agricultural districts. On that note, I'm going to suspend the rules because I do believe we have a few people here that want to give testimony and we'll do that while we're waiting for Kaaina to come over from Planning, so the rules are suspended. I understand that Laurel Brier, you've signed up. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. LAUREL BRIER: Just briefly, Laurel Brier and I'm one of the co- chairs of Apollo Kauai. And I just wanted to let you know that representatives from Apollo Kauai have gotten together with representatives from Sierra Club and Thousand Friends on numerous occasions over the last month and had in depth conversations regarding this bill. And as you know good conversation, meaningful conversation can lead to more flexibility and greater understanding of where others are coming from. We haven't come up with any joint, we haven't had the time nor have we come up with joint agreement on amendments. Apollo Kauai does stand... continues to stand generally behind the bill as it reads now. We don't have concerns... we have concerns about noise and we believe the windmills that are now being produced will be very acceptable as far as that goes. The one thing I think that we did have agreement on between our groups was that the issues about the birds really needs to... we need to have the DLNR and Forestry US Forestry, we need them to step up and answer this. They haven't done studies, we don't have guidelines and so to put that burden on the person who is trying to do the right thing by generating their own electricity is not fair really. And so to try to resolve that in some way. I did have a quote that I like from the Audubon Society. The National Audubon Society recently quoted, on balance Audubon strongly supports wind power as a clean alternative energy source that reduce the threat of global warming and basically they list all the other you know hazards to birds and wind turbines are way down there and the greenhouse gas emissions posed the most significant long term threat to birds. Just looking at the big picture and as one of our... my fellow Apollo members pointed out, he was quoting some wise leader, one of the Kennedy's and I know I'm not paraphrasing it quite right but it was don't avoid taking small step even though you can't take the big step. And I think that maybe what we're looking at here, maybe having to just take a baby step on this but we are going to need to take big and bold steps and it might not just be on this bill in particular so I look forward to the Energy Plan coming out and the Council moving on that and good things happening in this direction. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Laurel. Let me see if there's any comments from the group. Thank you for informing us that both Apollo Kauai and the Sierra Club generally are behind the bill but you are still talking and it seems 3 like you also touched on the concern that I touched on earlier... Ms. Brier: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: with the avian issue. And I would also like to say that the intent of this Energy Sustainability Plan is for us to take a big step to have a plan and... Ms. Brier: And to act on that plan, yeah. Mr. Furfaro: Yeah. I think that's a good summation, you know. But I didn't put my signature to a two hundred thousand dollar ($200,000) plan, not to act on. Ms. Brier: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: And I feel that it's only fair for me to answer you that way. Okay, we have a plan. The plan will then require certain actions and legislation but my concern right now quite frankly is, we shouldn't have the legislation driving the plan, the plan should drive the legislation. And we should make sure that we're crossing all the "t's" dotting all the "i's" and right now that avian issue seems to be a pretty significant one. And it's really good that you folks are looking at that question because we don't know who would actually pay that fine. We don't know if it's the applicant, would it be the county, because we approve legislation? Would it be the utility company because they're delivering power into the grid, it's really not clear. Let me ask if there's questions here, any questions? And you're here representing Apollo Kauai? Ms. Brier: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Laurel. No questions. Do we have anyone else who wishes to speak? Okay. Do we have anyone here from Planning? I know I called them over. IAN JUNG: They're on their way. Mr. Furfaro: They're on their way. May I ask if you could come up to the podium here. Mr. Jung: Good morning Councilmembers. Deputy County Attorney Ian Jung for the record. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much for being here and being available to this Committee. Part of our discussion this morning was focused on the fact that you know the County doesn't have any real clear standards regarding the wind turbines that might lead to a taking that might lead to then who's ultimately responsible for the fines and the charges. Even if you do notify DLNR, etc., and Fish and Wildlife is it the applicant that would pay a fine for a taking, is it the utility company that would pay a fine for the taking, or would it be the county 4 because we indorse this permitting process. Mr. Jung: I think the ultimate question is what is the use for? In this particular case if you're going to issue a use permit or generally allow S.W.E.C.S., the question becomes what are we doing, and I think the focus is on... we are issuing a zoning permit for that use. And because we're issuing a zoning permit, we're entitling the landowner to construct and operate something, in this case S.W.E.C.S. and so if you're operating a S.W.E.C.S. it then be the owner who I believe liable although they could potentially bring the county in, that would open the door to all other structures that we permit, buildings... even cars that we issue license to, so I think it would be fairly far fetching if the county got brought in in terms of liability of a taking based on something we issued a zoning permit for. And again the zoning permit is for the land use entitlement. Mr. Furfaro: That's one (1) of three (3) large questions that are here today so I'll be sending it over for legal opinion based on what you just stated. Mr. Jung: Okay. Mr. Furfaro: You do know that currently as long as the height is within the CZO guidelines twenty-five (25) feet for the North Shore, thirty (30) I think for Kapa`a, forty (40) for agricultural areas, the fact of the matter is it is just viewed as a accessory use and no permits are required. It's when they break the height limit for the CZO that it would trigger a class four (4) use permit and that's my concern so I'll clarify that in the... in the questions we send over. Mr. Jung: Okay. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you for being here. Mr. Jung: Sure. Mr. Furfaro: Hold on just a second and before we go to Kaaina, I want to specifically ask if the question is directed to the County Attorney? Yes. Okay. Mr. Jung the question is directed to you. Mr. Jung: He's a little more handsome than I am so he needs to get into the picture. Mr. Bynum: Good morning Mr. Jung. Mr. Jung: Good morning. Mr. Bynum: So in the process that was... occurred at Planning, these questions were part your offices... your office was addressed these questions, is that correct? Mr. Jung: They were addressed and we did look at the liability but in addressing the issue of liability... we can't say for certain we may ultimately be held liable, we just don't know. We don't know who would sue us or how we would be sued. But in looking at the issue of us issuing simply a zoning 5 permit, that's what we focused on. On the fact we're giving someone a land use entitlement, if they want to operate that than they have to submit for comments from DOFAW, DLNR (Department of Land and Natural Resources and Fish and Wildlife) and in their response than they have to subject themselves in terms of operating the S.W.E.C.S. to the regulations and requirements that are imposed by DOFAW or Fish and Wildlife. Mr. Bynum: And so the language that's currently in the bill that requires notification of those entities was that your office's recommendations? Mr. Jung: It was. Mr. Bynum: Okay and so um... okay that's all. Mr. Furfaro: I just want to make sure that we're all understanding... Mr. Bynum thinks the wording in the bill is satisfactory, I do not. So we're very clear. Because you just talked about in terms of the zoning permit but you couldn't answer me as to ultimately who's kuleana that is because it's a federal 1 aw. Mr. Jung: Well they are federal law and state law. Mr. Furfaro: But do you have clear definition? In the bill it talks only about notifying DLNR, it talks about notifying Fish and Wildlife, it doesn't clearly state that the applicant now assumes full responsibility for a taking. So I just want to make sure that you understand the question I'm going to be sending over. Mr. Jung: Sure I understand the question. Mr. Furfaro: I mean this is the federal kuleana, the endangered species act, not the county's. Mr. Jung: Well it would also be federal and state because state has its own... Mr. Furfaro: Obviously it has that trickle down effect. Mr. Jung: Right. Mr. Furfaro: Okay so I'll be sending over that question. Anymore questions for the County Attorney? Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: Thank you. So to your knowledge does the State DLNR or federal have they adopted regulations or permitting process or provided any guidance to the individual landowners about the process which they could procure this permission from the state or federal. Mr. Jung: From what I've been sitting here and listening in the past meetings to what Adam Griesemer of DOFAW has said, he said there is no permit process but there is the possibility to form a habitat conservation plan and there is a significant amount of money that would be involved in that if the individual landowner wanted to do that for his S.W.E.C.S. then if that's what he has to do, that's what he has to do. 6 Mr. Bynum: And the county has permitted a number of these S.W.E.C.S. is that correct? Mr. Jung: As far as I understand but I think that's a better question directed (inaudible) Mr. Bynum: Okay so I look forward to the answer to Councilmember Furfaro's questions along with the answers to the questions we've already sent you. Mr. Jung: Sure. Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much. Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Jung, you understand clarity; you just muddied the water some more because Adam sat right here and none of us on this Council understood clearly what was required for the takings permit, none of us did. Mr. Jung: I didn't really either but... you know kind of hearing what he says it appears that a habitat conservation plan would be required for the incidental take permit. And if they want to require on applicants for S.W.E.C.S. then, that's what they want to do. Mr. Furfaro: I understood he's doing the best he can but when someone like myself is looking for something that we can tie to the legislation and the reality is there is no clear piece coming to the table for us to understand or in your own words you as well, it becomes... it just becomes a flag of caution. Mr. Jung: Right. I understand where you're coming from. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. DEREK KAWAKAMI: I have a question. Mr. Furfaro: Go right ahead. Mr. Kawakami: Do we know if they have given out any incidental take permits up to this point? Mr. Jung: As far as I know... I wouldn't be able to answer that question. I don't know if they require for buildings also or what so. I think that would be a question that would be good for the Department of Land and Natural Resources. Mr. Kawakami: Yeah and I think we should send that over. And I think we should just ask them a simple question. If they're ever going to get to a point where the taking of a bird is okay in their eyes because it's in my opinion that if you're mandated to do a habitat conservation plan it's going to be the beginning of the end because I don't think they'll ever get to a point where their going to say "okay taking a shearwater is okay so here's your permits." So you know I think they got to be straight forward and you know if this HCP is going to be a list of mitigative measures that an applicant has to go through without ever getting a permit, then let us know because you know at some point there has to be leadership 7 and it has to be clear cut so that people understand yeah, the people... the working class people, not the politicians... the guys that want to put up this S.W.E.C.S. and they're getting frustrated with us because of the lack of clarity on this seabird issue. So maybe that's something Mr. Chair that we can send over yeah. Mr. Furfaro: Yes, I think your comments are very well taken and we will be sending a communication over to DLNR. Mr. Chair. KAIPO ASING: Yes I just wanted... (Check your mic) Mr. Asing: I just want to comment. You know Attorney Jung, I'm a little bit taken back by your statement of we're doing just a simple zoning permit. I would hope that the County Attorney's Office would not take that process and look at it that narrowly. I'm surprised that the County Attorney's Office is taking that kind of stand when in fact I'm sure that if there is a contested case, there would just be a question well when you issued this zoning permit, did you expect them not to put the windmill, how do you answer that? So I'm just... it's a comment that bothers me because we have the County Attorney's Office taking this narrow opinion on simply a zoning permit so it's like anything else but I would think you would take a you know a better and hard look at it and not just a simply a zoning permit so I'm just concerned. Mr. Jung: No, I understand your concern but one of the analogies we can attempt to liking to is if we issue licenses, right and if the license get issued and we come up and someone gets into a car accident, because we issued that license, does that mean that we're ultimately liable for issuing the license because someone gets injured based on that person's driving. So I know it's conceivable to look at the potential for liability but we have to figure out where to draw the line. I mean under the state law in 205 (4.5) it's actually permitted, wind turbines are permitted so if the concern is that liability is at the forefront of what we're dealing with, then the question becomes should we outright prohibit all S.W.E.C.S. because of the public health and safety and welfare because it could ultimately make the county liable. So there are questions that need to be answered but the fact... the reason we linked it just to a zoning permit is the fact that we're giving this person the entitlement to construct something, if they want to construct it then they assume the liability of that operation of that structure. Mr. Asing: Well I mean that's just my view and Mr. Chairman; I also had the opportunity to meet with our consultant and you know that's the view I got from the consultant on it is touchy, it is not that clear and we need to be careful. And that's the word I'm getting from the consultant on two (2) areas, one (1) is that particular area on the takings issue and the other is on redundancy. So it's a concern that was raised by the consultant and I know that Councilmembers met separately with the consultant and so those are issues of concern that have not clearly been answered so thank you. Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Jung, I do want to say that I will be sending this question over because I know that Councilman Kaneshiro had implied that he was looking at an amendment for the Ag areas and obviously I want to make sure we have some clarity to that question as he works on his amendments. Hold on Mr. 8 Jung. Lani go ahead. LANI KAWAHARA: Thank you. Since it's come up twice, I just had a question. So if there was wording in the legislation that said that the person that's constructing a S.W.E.C.S. would assume the liability, is that helpful at all? That's where we're heading right now is.. right now it doesn't say that person that's constructing the project will assume liability regardless of whether or not DOFAW and DLNR and all of them have a plan, I know you've talked about not having a dual permitting process, so we're not going to worry about how their going to permit it but for our sake, for our side how does that work? Mr. Jung: Well again I mean as Councilman Furfaro had noted, I mean... someone could potentially try to sue us. I mean that's the bottom line. Ms. Kawahara: Regardless of the... Mr. Jung: Regardless of the language. Ms. Kawahara: Regardless of the language of assuming liability. Mr. Jung: Right. Ms. Kawahara: Okay. But it would be there. Mr. Jung: But if you wanted to put that into amendment, we'll take a hard look at it and you know we always appreciate reviewing amendments before they're put on the floor. Ms. Kawahara: Okay, thank you very much. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. I think we're okay with the County Attorney's Office right now, we want to direct our next questions to Planning which may only be one (1) but again I want to thank you for coming over based on us sending over a phone call. Mr. Jung: Sure. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. And how are you? This is a particular query I want to make at this time. This is coming from April 4, 2009 Planning Department report. Currently there are no specific standards within the county CZO concerning the construction and/or operation of wind turbines medium, large, small, all scales regarding the county's administrative preview. The Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance standards for general construction within the respective CZO districts including but not limited to the height limitations are the only exsisting regulations for mechanical turbines. And I think on your way over I was referencing what's in the CZO as seen as an 9 accessory use as long as they are under the current zoning height limits. And is this still true, is anybody working on some... how do I want to say... rules for the Planning Department on the construction and operation of wind turbines? IAN COSTA: No. Mr. Furfaro: Because it is going to come up when we get our Sustainability Plan. Mr. Costa: No not other than what we provided to the current bill. Mr. Furfaro: Okay. Let me see if there's other questions here? Mr. Bynum, did you have a question? Lani? No. Any other members? You do understand that as this is drafted, there are a series of alternative energies from conservation as the first piece to photovoltaic that operates steam, so that during the peak demand we still have steam going into the power plants but large wind and small wind also appear on the list although farther down it is going to indicate that we're going to have to have some preview of what those regulations are and I would just like to raise that right now that when we see the plan that we're going to have some discussion going into that area. Mr. Costa: We understand that. Mr. Furfaro: Okay. Any other questions of Planning? Ms. Kawahara: Yes. So I just wanted to thank you for actually anticipating what the issues were when you asked... when you sent the bill over because I know that a lot of the issues that Chair Furfaro is speaking about were considered in the bill but the point was to be helpful to the Planning Department to facilitate a more efficient way of getting S.W.E.C.S. into our... into our part of our Sustainability and Energy Plan right? Is that what it was? Okay. Mr. Costa: Well we recognize it... it's the responsible thing we all have to do and move towards. Ms. Kawahara: Okay thank you very much. Mr. Furfaro: Have any of you took a look at the first draft? Of the Energy Sustainability Plan? Have you been able through the Office of Economic Development been able to see the first draft? Mr. Costa: We have taken a brief overview... I mean at least in the sections that we've provided input on. 10 Mr. Furfaro: I would encourage that you know a review of that just because I think you can anticipate some of the issues that might come up when the plan is final early next year. Although big wind is like number six (6) or number seven (7), small wind is like number nine (9), some of these administrative rules might be worth considering or each... even querying other county's right now like Maui on how they handled you know their large wind farms on west Maui. Mr. Costa: How would that plan be adopted or. Mr. Furfaro: The plan would be presented by the council here in a draft form and hopefully be reviewed by the group that is serving on the Sustainability Plan with their recommendations and comments then sent back to the council to actually take as a document that endorses the long term plan for us. Mr. Costa: Okay and that's what I was getting at. So the council will adopt it in some form either Resolution or otherwise. Mr. Furfaro: We requested it in a Resolution, we requested it in funding so. No more questions for Planning? Gentlemen thank you very much for coming, we're going to go into Farm Worker Housing, if you want to stay close by. Okay I'm calling the meeting back to order and asking if there's any comments, Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I appreciate the ongoing dialog about this issue and I just wanted to... from my perspective put it in perspective in terms of last term you know there was press that citizens were applying for permits for S.W.E.C.S. that there wasn't clarity about how they're going to be offered and you know that motivated me to start dialoging with Planning about because we were issuing permits and I share the concerns that other members do about the potential liability, so I've asked those questions in writing from the County Attorney previously and I was concerned that we were permitting these and we may have liability you know at the same time the state has tax credits and is encouraging people as part of public policy to do alternative energy you know there's a movement in the country to do distributed energy whether it's photovoltaic or wind or any other source and it's part of a National debate. This week President Obama spoke at MIT about alternative energy and just issued three million dollars ($3,000,000) I think of stimulus money to work on Smart Grid issues so, energy is a huge issue right now and I'm excepting of the outcome. I thought there was a possibility that in this dialog it would be because we have a high level of endangered species on Kauai, we can't do S.W.E.C.S. and if that was the answer, I would accept that. Thus far what I've heard is that and I think I've heard it several times today, there's no clarity. Turns out that the state has no mechanism or regulations nor the Federal Government to give us answers to these questions. They you know the state wide energy plan initially, my dialog with DOFAW was that that when they got the state the island wide energy HCP that then they could address those issues but in subsequent testimony we heard that's not part of their scope of work to look at wind energy. So the County Attorney from my understanding is saying that due to this lack of clarity, you know our recommendation or (inaudible) when it came from Planning was to make sure that any one who constructs a S.W.E.C.S. notify Fish and Wildlife, we've also asked them to show us statistics or studies that... about what potential impact small wind energy systems would have on alien species to demonstrate the risk. And so in this current climate where there is no regulation 11 from the state, there is no clarity on the risk you know I'm and more dialog about this certainly would be good and if the outcome is that as I said if the outcome is that it's an unacceptable liability or risk, that's the... that's the outcome. But I haven't heard that, what I've heard is that we continue to permit these, that the state continues to give tax credits, that the federal government continues to encourage to do this and it is a county issue that hopefully we will get clarity on and I think that this bill is perhaps a mechanism to do that so I just wanted to make those comments. Mr. Furfaro: Any other members want to comment, any non- members before I... talk about a little summary here on the deferral? Okay I would like to again say Mr. Bynum is correct there are comments from the County Attorney's Office that are in the bill but as I was pointing out even notifying them is very unclear as to... at the end of the day you can notify Fish and Wildlife, DLNR and so forth but there is a risk even if it's a small one. Because there's no clarity to the taking and therefore we need to have a better understanding of who might be exposed to that liability. I'm going to ask and suggest that this gets deferred not date specific, but it gets deferred after we get a presentation on our Energy Sustainability Plan and we get some of those questions back from the County Attorney's Office. That is what I hope the motion is to defer it to after we get an update on the Energy Sustainability Plan. Is there anyone that would like to make that motion. Mr. Bynum: I move that we schedule or defer this until the first Committee Meeting after the Energy Sustainability Presentation. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Bynum. Do we have a second? Mr. Kaneshiro: Seconded. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. Is there any further discussion? Oh it's a deferral, there's no discussion. Can we read the next item please. Mr. Bynum: Wait... vote, we're forgetting to vote today. Mr. Furfaro: That is about the third (3rd) time we've forgotten to vote. Okay so we have a deferral on the table, all those in favor say "aye". Committee Members: Aye. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Bynum, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried, Bill No. 2317 Draft 3 was deferred until the first Committee Meeting after the Energy Sustainability presentation. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. Can we read the next item please. Bill No. 2318 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, RELATING TO THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE (Farm Worker 12 Housing) [This item was deferred.] Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. I would also like to share with you folks that there is a group made up of the Farm Bureau, Organic Farmers, Former Councilwoman JoAnn Yukimura who are working on amendments that they could suggest to the Council and in my conversation to that group and as well with former Councilwoman Yukimura, they are meeting periodically with people from Planning, also from the tax office and in November, I again will be participating in a meeting that will address the water issues and that Committee is suggesting that we go through those particular items and defer this actually until the first Committee meeting in January and that is confirmed with Farm Bureau Koolau Farmers Group as well as in my discussion yesterday with Councilwoman... former Councilwoman Yukimura, I have said that I would portray that to the group to defer until the first Committee meeting in January. Mr. Bynum: So moved. Mr. Furfaro: Well let me see... Mr. Bynum: Oh sorry. Mr. Furfaro: if there's any... now we're too anxious to vote. Let me ask if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak on this, seeing no one, Mr. Bynum, you were about to make a motion. Mr. Bynum: I move to defer until the first Committee meeting in January. Mr. Kaneshiro: Seconded the motion. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Kaneshiro. All those in favor say "aye". Committee Members: Aye. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Bynum, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried, Bill No. 2318 was deferred to the first Committee meeting in January 2010. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. Can we read the next two (2) items together because they deal with the same parcel of property. Bill No. 2328 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. PM-227-91, RELATING TO STATE LAND USE DISTRICT BOUNDARY IN KILAUEA, KAUAI (County of Kauai, Applicant) [This item was deferred.] Bill No. 2329 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. PM-228-91, RELATING TO GENERAL PLAN DESIGNATION IN KILAUEA, KAUAI (County of Kauai, Applicant) [This item was deferred.] 13 Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. As in the past we have four (4) bills dealing with this but in the Bill 2328 as well as Bill 2329 we will vote on them separately but these need to be deferred until a zoning bill comes back to us from Planning Department and so I'm asking if we can defer until that time. Let me see if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak on these two (2) items. None. Okay Councilmembers, may I have a motion to defer Bi112328. Ms. Kawahara: Move to defer Bill No. 2328 until we get zoning ordinance from Planning. Mr. Bynum: Seconded. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much and please note that it was until we get the zoning ordinance from Planning. All those in favor say "aye". Committee Members: Aye. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Kawahara, seconded by Councilmember Bynum, and unanimously carried, Bill No. 2328 was deferred until Committee gets zoning ordinance from Planning Department. Mr. Furfaro: Okay now we're on Bill No. 2329, this also deals with the plan designation on that parcel Kilauea Kauai, I'm looking for a deferral until the zoning piece comes back to us from Planning. Mr. Kaneshiro: So moved. Mr. Furfaro: Okay so moved. No one in the audience wishes to speak? Mr. Kaneshiro: Seconded. Mr. Furfaro: Seconded. All those in favor say "aye". Committee Members: Aye. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Bynum, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried, Bill No. 2329 was deferred until Committee gets zoning ordinance from Planning Department. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. This concludes the business of the Planning Committee and we are adjourned and I believe the Council is adjourned for today. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:24 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Darrellyne M. Simao Council Services Assistant I APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on November 10, 2009: 14 JAY Chair, P1 'ng Committ 15