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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-12-2009 Public Works Elderly Affairs Committee Minutes MINUTE S PUBLIC WORKS/ELDERLY AFFAIRS CONIlVIITTEE August 12, 2009 A meeting of the Public Works/Elderly Affair Committee of the Council of the County of Kauai, State of Hawaii, was called to order by Councilmember Tim Bynum, Chair, at the Historic County Building, Room 201, Lihue, Kauai, on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 at 4:52 p.m., after which the following members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Dickie Chang Honorable Jay Furfaro Honorable Daryl W. Kaneshiro Honorable Derek S. K. Kawakami Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing, Ex-Officio Member Honorable Lani T. Kawahara, Ex-Officio Member Mr. Bynum: I call to order the Public Works and Elderly Affairs Committee, let the record reflect that all members are present, we have one item on the agenda I believe and if the clerk could read that. PWE 2009-2 Communication (7/22/2009) from Tim Bynum, Committee Chair, requesting that the Director of Parks and Recreation, Director of Planning, and the County Engineer be present to provide an update on the short-term and long-term efforts to address the drainage issues at Po`ipu Beach Park. [This item was deferred.] Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much, I saw some of them here just a minute ago, this really is deferred from previous meetings where we discussed here about drainage issues at Po`ipu Beach Park. The reason Planning and um Public Works and Parks are all being asked to come is because Parks has the responsibility to deal with the flooding when it occurs and we put things in their budget to help them deal with that but you know many of us would like to look at the bigger picture of why we have reoccurring flooding occurring and what if any plan there is long term to address that. Also members of the public have addressed concerns about some EA's that are done mauka and Planning... you know that mauka properties that drain into the Po`ipu Beach area and other areas along the Po`ipu coast there, and I know I sent over questions from February all of which haven't been addressed, so that's the purpose of this meeting today is to follow up on those questions that came from myself and other councilmembers to try to look at those various issues, so... there they are. So I know we just received something in writing and I think we're ready to do a presentation? Or. LENNY RAPOZO (DIRECTOR OF PARKS & RECREATION): For the record.. Mr. Furfaro: Excuse Chair, you need to suspend the rules. Mr. Bynum: Yeah. The rules are suspended. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Mr. Rapozo: For the record Director of Parks and Recreation Lenny Rapozo. Just briefly I provide you with a aerial images of Po`ipu Beach Park and the vicinity area of the parking lot where we have been having the flooding problems and our images go back as far as 1960 up until 2007 and you can see the changes of the area since 1960 up until 1975. We don't see the parking lot there and 1987 we see the parking lot but we also see that it's not a paved parking lot at that point. And 1988 it's still unpaved, then 92, then somewhere after between 1999 and early 2000 the parking lot gets paved, and prior to that... I guess from my understanding flooding was minimum in the area and it wasn't until some development with the Waiohai and the paving of the parking lot that the flooding started... or flooding began to become a serious problem. So my appearance here today is to give you a brief short term solution as to what we've been working on in dealing with the flooding problem of the parking lot. You know with the last weather event that we have... we had... we had to pump the parking lot with tankers and get rid of the water through that seams... since that time, we're looking at efforts be to a little bit more cost efficient, because it was costly to do such an endeavor, we have spoken to the Department of Health where we would be able to... in an emergency situation, an emergency would be a weather event where it would occur to be a flood warning that we would be pumping the water from that parking lot up until above the vegetation line where there is a set of boulders and by disbursing the energy there and monitoring the disbursement, we're going to ensure that the water doesn't reach the ocean. We understand that class A2 water is pristine, we don't want to disrupt that, so where the boulders are which is along the fence line of the Waiohai and the park, with the conciliation with the Department of Health, clean water division, we've finally got them to agree that we can disburse water there, monitoring so it doesn't go into the.. into the ocean, and there is should seep down into the earth and have a natural seepage out. That's the number 1 short term solution that we have. Other discussions have been to possible taking out a section of the parking lot asphalt to see if that would help seepage, to help get the water out of the parking lot, and third opinion may be to move the parking lot somewhere else and that location hasn't been identified but that would be the last alternative, and by doing that there it would restore that parking lot area to a park and to be used that like a park and of course would be a catchment basin when it would flood, in that... when it floods during a weather storm event. As far as long term solutions we are still looking into it, we haven't come up with any long term to solve the drainage problem there and that's... I'm sorry I thought he was calling me.... But that's where we are with the drainage at the Po`ipu Beach Park. 2 Mr. Bynum: Comments from Councilmembers? Mr. Rapozo: Oh can I? One last thing, I'm sorry. I sent you a report regarding your communication regarding the alternatives... I just turned it in today so I'm not sure if it got to you yet? Mr. Bynum: I got it. Mr. Rapozo: Okay well in there it says that we are awaiting for and it's addressed to the Chair as well, yeah? The... his communication. It says that we're waiting for the clean water division of Department of Health to come back to tell us that what we wanted to do was okay. Since I completed the document this morning and this afternoon, they have come back to verbally say and we... I sent my Deputy out there to go and meet the Representative from clean water and they showed them exactly what we were doing and with their input they agreed and okay, in an emergency short term that we can do that and we will be working with them to get something in writing. Mr. Bynum: So thank you Lenny for that, any questions before I... Councilmember Kawahara? Ms. Kawahara: So in between 1999 and 2000 it got paved, was it paved... who was it paved by? Was it the County? Or? We don't know. Mr. Rapozo: And that's... yeah, that's... I have a question into the Planning Department to see if that was part of the reconstruction of the Waiohai or what? I haven't found that answer yet. Ms. Kawahara: Oh okay. Mr. Rapozo: I haven't found that answer yet. Ms. Kawahara: Okay. Mr. Bynum: Councilmember Kawahara, that's why we asked Planning and Public Works to be here because there are other questions... so... Ms. Kawahara: Okay. Mr. Bynum: for Parks... and I said before you came in Lenny that you are responsible to deal with it when the flooding occurs, you have a short term plan which you described to us and update the Health Department is on board with that. The deeper question I think will be on Parks and go to Planning and Public Works so there are other memos relating to that, so I thank you for your response today, any other questions of Lenny? Ms. Kawahara: One more about an opinion. So you gave us the 3 3 that are here as alternatives and I'm not sure being that we had a presentation from Rupert and the rest of the gang on the same area, removing it or not but if you considered a pervious pavement replacement ? Mr. Rapozo: I've? Ms. Kawahara: The ones with the holes in um. Mr. Rapozo: I know Mr. Rowe, I've watched the presentation, I was depressed myself. He dropped off a copy for himself and I haven't had time to review it and I haven't had time to... Ms. Kawahara: Because I don't know if they probably would like it to be part of this block of land as a park but if not was there any kind of um, looking at the pavement being changed to a pervious pavement in the parking lot? Mr. Rapozo: Well one of the options was that we take up part of the pavement to see if that would help with the seepage. Ms. Kawahara: Yeah but that's not the same yeah... Mr. Rapozo: Rather than taking the whole thing out because below that... if you look at some of the photos, it was coral base look like and... Ms. Kawahara: Oh okay. Mr. Rapozo: you know, my understanding is with the, you talking to some of our people with the asphalt there it takes as long as up to a month for it to drain naturally so you know we wanted to see if we could take out... if you kind of look at the photo it appears to drain kind of like towards the middle of the parking lot and. Ms. Kawahara: Yeah I guess. So my question was just... Mr. Rapozo: It, it, kind of... if you look at your photo of the parking lot it seems to drain towards here yeah? Towards the Waiohai that's the way it's been graded towards so some of the discussion we've had is try to take out some of the... and this is just discussion, we haven't decide to do it. Ms. Kawahara: Yeah. Mr. Rapozo: Is to try to remove some of the asphalt in this area to see if this would help with the drainage but you know being so close to the water, I don't know. I don't know what kind of... how that would help. Ms. Kawahara: Okay. Yeah I understood that you were going to remove pavement... 4 Mr. Rapozo: Yeah. But whatever else that is in the presentation of Mr. Rowe, we haven't discussed that. Ms. Kawahara: Okay. Because I just... because Grove Farm they just showed me one of their parking lots and Michael Tresler was so pleased because he could dump tons of water on that thing and... but it looks like pavement but it totally soaks it up. Mr. Rapozo: Yeah I heard... yeah. And I think that's the same theory they're using out here, the by-pass, yeah? Ms. Kawahara: Yeah so I was just wondering if that was considered. Mr. Rapozo: Yeah we haven't. Ms. Kawahara: Okay thanks. Mr. Bynum: That might be a question for an Engineering as opposed to Parks so. Mr. Rapozo: I think so. Mr. Bynum: If we're done with Mr. Rapozo, I see Mr. Fujimoto is here. Anything else Lenny? Mr. Rapozo: No. Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. DONALD FUJIMOTO (COUNTY ENGINEER): Donald Fujimoto County Engineer. Mr. Bynum: Donald what I'm trying to... kind of go from the short term to some of the questions we ask to Public Works and then hopefully Planning will be here today because that may be the key you know, you responded to a memo on April 7th... a question that came regarding when the Waiohai parking lot was constructed, was there drainage study done at that time and you know because I just kind of came from that perception or the belief that when we hard- scape and do you know resorts and make changes that the Engineering reviews that to see what impact there will be from run off and what mitigation efforts might need to happen, that's generally a correct statement? Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. 5 Mr. Bynum: And so... and I'm saying this as gently as I know how. The response I received in April was incomplete and partially because the Planning Department hadn't provided information, do you know what I'm referring to? Mr. Fujimoto: I'm not really familiar with that. Mr. Bynum: Um because this... well basically I... Mr. Fujimoto: Excuse me, the staff that actually worked on it directly couldn't make it this afternoon, they had to go somewhere so um we can get you further information if you need. Mr. Bynum: Okay well. The question was asked regarding... so I can just say that you know the letter I received under your signature said that this is a response to your inquiry on the subject update related to the flooding situation at Po`ipu Beach Park, we wish to inform you that the Department has not completed its investigation in your inquiry. We have requested information from the Planning Department in regards to permitting requirements that were opposed on the Waiohai and its rebuilding efforts after Hurricane Iniki which could have resulted with the construction on paving the of the parking adjacent to the Waiohai parking. A response to your inquiries as follows. The question was when was the Waiohai parking lot construction and paved? The answer was we believe it was constructed and paved in April 2002. Was the parking lot design plan reviewed and signed? It says there was a grading permit issued on April 9, 2002, we are unable to locate the grading plans for this project. We are... we are presuming with the approval of a grading permit that the parking lot was reviewed and regards to compliance with the county's layout standards and for ADA compliance. So another question was, were there any recommendations for dealing with flooding and drainage issues in the parking lot designed plan? And the answer was if a grading permit was reviewed and approved, flood and drainage issues may have been requested. So you know you also were saying at that time... so you're saying it wasn't complete, the investigation wasn't complete and you hadn't received any information from Planning, and so is that the status that we're at still today? Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. And I'm... to the best of my knowledge, I'm not sure if that... we have done this for the park area I think it was required for the project itself. Mr. Bynum: So the question started with, when the Waiohai was constructed... Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: was there a review of the potential impact on flooding and drainage? 6 Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: And there... Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: And where would we receive... see those documents or? Mr. Fujimoto: We have copies of those documents but I think the issue is that the paving of the parking lot for the park was part condition to the site, our review was only confined to the site, to the Waiohai project site. Mr. Bynum: And in an area like this when you pave... when you hard-scape, you have to address what that does to drainage and flooding correct? Mr. Fujimoto: Yes and we're looking for that information. Mr. Bynum: Okay. Mr. Fujimoto: It could have been an oversight because again this was a condition to another project, it went outside of the project limits. Mr. Bynum: So in April you were requesting from the Planning Department permitting requirements that were opposed to the Waiohai? Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: Did you receive that from Planning? Mr. Fujimoto: Um to the best of my knowledge, I don't think we did. Mr. Bynum: Because I also followed up with the memo in May 21 to the Planning Director with the attached, with your response attached that says basically we don't have a complete set of facts yet and we... and so you know asking them to follow up with you and this was in May 21 so... Mr. Fujimoto: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: The bigger picture Donald is, it would be helpful to understand how we got to this flooding situation and whether we did the proper review of drainage issues at the time. More importantly, however, you know we clearly have a serious problem, you know Parks showed us pictures of people in waist high water. 7 Mr. Fujimoto: Right. Mr. Bynum: And last time we had a flooding incident it took a month to drain... Mr. Fujimoto: Right. Mr. Bynum: and it's also flooding into culturally significant fish ponds and heiau sites and so it's like and I think the Council (inaudible) what do we do about this? Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: The park... to me it's not an acceptable answer that Parks is going to pump it when we have an emergency, that's a great short term plan. Mr. Fujimoto: And, and well you know looking at this situation my assessment is number 1 that this is a natural detention anyway, this is the low point of that area. There is some I guess conjecture that the park was actually filled and blocked the natural the drainage of this area. And that goes way back. The other issues is that this area serve as a parking lot with only base course for a long period of time and during that period, we did have flooding but it dissipated over time, faster than it does now and so I think there was an assumption that because we did not change the elevation, that we would not impact the flooding that you know, nothing has changed except we just put on the pavement and that condition may be causing this flooding because it prevents the water from percolating down and naturally dissipating. Mr. Bynum: And Donald. Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: I'm not an Engineer but you know just from reading a lot of EA's and plans and stuff... Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: I know that when you put in a hard surface, you usually look at well how's that going to impact the drainage and will it... Mr. Fujimoto: Yes and I'm just... again saying because again all of this happened before my time. Mr. Bynum: I understand. Mr. Fujimoto: And I'm just saying some people may have made 8 that assumption which is easy to make. Mr. Bynum: But... and your... Mr. Fujimoto: under the conditions that you know. Again this was imposed as a condition from another development. Mr. Bynum: Right but you're still looking to see if you have the documents... Mr. Fujimoto: That's right and again it was not initiated by Public Works. Mr. Bynum: Right. So.. Okay so you agree that there is some more investigation to do regarding this. Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: And that eventually it would behoove the county to figure out what we're going to do as a long range. Mr. Fujimoto: Yeah and again... I think Parks... Lenny is very progressive, we're looking at the long-term situation and we've... just talking to the people that you know um is more familiar with the historic and cultural issues there. One option would be to relocate the parking to higher ground and to restore the lower area to what it was before and a lot of that before was natural fish pond. Mr. Bynum: Right and I you know I read in an EA in that area where they had to elevate the parking lot to allow the water to flow underneath it so it could do drainage, so that might have been a potential answer as well, those kind of things. Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Bynum: You know because then the next level of this, is Planning where we've asked some very specific questions of Planning that we've yet to receive, and so but I appreciate the answers you're giving thus far and that we need to do some ongoing discussion about this. Any other Councilmembers have questions for Mr. Fujimoto? Councilmember Furfaro? Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Donald for being here. Donald, we have you know what seems like we have some short-term plans about having permission from the DO... Department of Health to pump or truck water during the flooding but from a stand point of a long-term drainage study... a moderate drainage study especially if it implies any conditions we would put on any other development mauka of the road um. And any effort that the county would support and I'm going to use the term the restoration of the complex there, whether it's the (inaudible) or 9 fish ponds or um do you know if there has been any discussion about the county planning to do a moderate drainage study for that area? Along term solution? Mr. Fujimoto: The drainage issue actually falls under Public Works, the Engineering Department...one of our fundamental... Mr. Furfaro: That's you right? Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: Okay... Mr. Fujimoto: And I'm trying... yeah... and what I'm trying to say is that one of our fundamental responsibilities is to ensure that drainage ways are kept open and function normally as it would naturally and that any new development, the responsibility of the developers is to ensure that the runoff... is the same or less than pre-development flows and that's why if you have noticed in your picture of the Waiohai right next that they actually on purpose put in water features to serve as detention during storms and a lot of developments do that. They end up with these large dry areas, ponds or whatever have you to ensure that during a storm, you hold the water and let the water go over time to pre- development. Mr. Furfaro: I think I recognize that you know, the rules now require that so that there is no excessive drainage and it is, it is managed as if there's no impact. Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: But what I'm saying is... we have a very unique opportunity to begin some stewardship and some restoration to the complex there, I think it would behoove us to have a good understanding about the drainage there you know what might be... what might be suggested as some alternatives, long- term. Mr. Fujimoto: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: So that the restoration project and the drainage issue as it reflects anything mauka, you know their running parallel and we have the answers to you know what might be a fair share of an assessment or something, what might be alternatives to retention basin outside.of the cultural complex. Mr. Fujimoto: Oh definitely and as I mentioned you know our responsibilities are to ensure that at the minimum the flows are the same or less and I think I hear what you're saying that, yes we would welcome many developer to actually help us with this flooding issue by retaining more and releasing less over time. The issue there is that it is expensive you know that controlling flood waters 10 and managing these storm runoffs are very expensive. Mr. Furfaro: Sure. I guess I'm thinking in terms of us taking the initiative to do a drainage study, yeah it might be $200,000, it might be some we have to put in the bond float but without it, we don't... we don't have a substantial position to make on anything going forward without doing this drainage study and I think if we're talking about this complex... Mr. Fujimoto: yes and I hear what you're saying, you would... it's definitely prudent for us to do a drainage study of this area so that when we do design along-term drainage you know mitigation that it will address the peek flows. Mr. Furfaro: In your... in your opinion I would think based on the nature of what is attempting to be done with a restoration program of this site, that we could pursue... the county could pursue some grant funds and even some federal moneys to do the study. Would you agree with that? Mr. Fujimoto: Ah I'm not familiar with all of the available grant funds but definitely we would entertain looking at grants, yes. Mr. Furfaro: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Bynum: So... any one else? Donald just the so we're... at this point and I hoping Planning is going to be here today because we've asked them to. You're still waiting to hear from Planning this information regarding the permitting requirements that were opposed on the Waiohai and the rebuilding efforts after Iniki because that's the first level of like... because we had the Park Director and I think local knowledge saying, this flooding got way worse after the rebuilding of the Waiohai and the paving of this parking lot so first level of questions is... how did we try to address and mitigate then and were those things done? And we don't know that yet. Um. The next level really I think is for Planning and I appreciate the comments from Councilmember Furfaro so is the Planning Department here a requested? Ms. Kawahara: Are they on their? Mr. Furfaro: Can we have the staff place a call? You did? Mr. Bynum: And did they answer the call? They didn't answer the call. Um. I'm going to call fora 10 minute recess. There being no objections, the Chair recessed the meeting at 5:20 p.m. The meeting was called back to order at 5:36 p.m., and proceeded as follows: Mr. Bynum: Okay we'll call this meeting back to order. Um let me just outline that, citizens brought these concerns about drainage and this 11 Council addressed it in February. Um as a result of those concerns we sent memos to Parks, Public Works and Planning requesting information about short-term, medium term, and long-term problems, their concerns about development that's happening mauka of the highway and you know that will drain water into these areas, and though some of these questions from Planning were specific about that, they didn't respond to Public Works. I appreciate Parks being here and like I said their issue is the short-term when the flooding occurs. Public Works isn't able to complete their investigation because they're not getting information that they requested from Planning. We've followed up with a memo in May saying hey you haven't followed up, you haven't responded to these February memos, please respond. And we followed up with a memo preparing for this today requesting that they respond and be here present to discuss this, I'm really sad to say that Planning is not here. They're a no-show and I think that's pretty outrageous given that the history and this patience of this council requesting them to respond to their colleagues and other Departments and to respond to other inquiries to the community that Councilmembers are putting forth on their behalf of concerns.. Today was a fascinating day in terms of learning about the extraordinary effort our citizens are putting into nurturing and caring for the cultural sites in the Po`ipu area that are impacted by choices we've made in the past and this flooding that we hope to address. So I have no other option than to defer this for 2 more weeks. We are going to take public testimony and from the individuals who have waited all day to listen to some of theses answers so you know I'm having deja vu from when Councilmember Rapozo was the... was the Chair of Public Works last term and I think his response may not have been as gentle as mine is right now. And I learn to maybe find some of that edge that it is disrespectful to not even respond or to not show. Is there anything else before I call for testimony from anyone else? Councilmember Furfaro? Mr. Furfaro: I think it would behoove all of us to just encourage Public Works, Planning to communicate to one another. I mean that was pretty obvious to me although the Engineering Department was here, they couldn't completely testify on some of the contributing factors because of their own internal research was not complete. I have to tell you that I have to be at a location at 6 o'clock this evening and I am glad to hear that you're deferring this but I'm sad that it's gone this far that I won't be present for testimony of people in the audience but I just wanted to say Lenny is here as Parks. It seems that the report between Engineering and Parks seems to be there so maybe he could also take back an encouraging message about getting Planning to talk with Engineering and I would concur that you should defer this item. Mr. Bynum: Anyone else? Councilmember Kawahara? Ms. Kawahara: I do... I want to recognize and thank Lenny Rapozo from Parks and Dennis Fujimoto from Public Works for coming... Donald... sorry. Donald Fujimoto for coming and being here to answer some of the questions we have so thank you very much and yes if you could communicate with the people that weren't able to show, that would be great. Thanks. Mr. Bynum: Okay. Are there members of the audience who would like to testify on this manner? While we're waiting for Mr. Rowe to just... have the record reflect that Jay will be excused from the rest of the meeting due to a previous appointment. (Mr. Furfaro was noted excused from the meeting at 5:42 p.m.) 12 Mr. Rowe: My name is Rupert Rowe and we're going to be talking about the drainage. I want to start off with Kuai Road so that you folks get to see the picture of what's happening down in Poipu. Kuai Road, that property on the corner, there was a cave there, that the landowner put his septic tank in a cave and that same landowner is using county property, that 1800 square feet that I mentioned earlier, to keep the public and the people from parking on that side. So now let's move on towards Po`ipu Beach Park, these document here is from a memo that was from Tim Bynum that shows on the bottom end over here, on this development of the top end, above Kaneiolouma as a detention basin but it doesn't disclose that the (inaudible) under the road flows into Kaneiolouma, into the county property, okay? Secondly now we're going to move down to the parking lot. There was a meeting that was called by the Planning Department, the people that was present in this meeting was Ricky Tsuchiya, Ken Pendragon, Mel Rapozo, Terry Low from the State, Nancy McMahon from the State, the hotel industry, Po`ipu Association, I think it was Koloa Association and the Condo people in that particular area, pertaining to Kaneiolouma and the flooding that was happening on the lower end. Somehow from then to now, we still never get one answer. We still don't know where we going to go. With what's happening on this flooding in the area because. there is no answer. What has happened on the bottom end, if you stand in the fish pond by the heiau and you look towards the ocean, they been lift the ground in the park at least 15 feet high above sea level, maybe higher, I cannot answer that right now. Then from the same fishpond if you look towards the Waiohai you can see the elevation on what happened is that they tilted everything towards the Waiohai and the Waiohai reversed it back towards the park, so that's why we created a bowl where we cannot unload the water. The only way I believe there is an easement that runs... there is also culvert that is being... that got plugged by the county when they redid Po`ipu Beach Park and this culvert does not drain the parking lot by the Brennecke's Restaurant. I cannot tell you folks why but I know the whole thing would have drained if the 2 fishponds were put back to its original size. Mr. Bynum: Mr. Rowe, your 3 minutes are up, would you like to take additional 3? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. My partners going give my their 3 so, I going 3-3. Mr. Bynum: Well you get a second 3 all on your own so. Mr. Rowe: So now these problem with this meeting we couldn't get an answer, we never got an answer till this day. On this drainage on this particular area and the top portion where they're going to drain it into Kaneiolouma and the drainage on that road that I mentioned on that person that owns that lot right there. So everything was done but I don't know how that the flooding, we cannot correct that flooding on that road and we cannot correct that flooding in the parking lot and there is a big problem in Kaneiolouma because somehow the Knudsen trust believe that Kaneiolouma is a catchment basin and what had happen with Kaneiolouma and the top end, SHIPDA could not enforce anything on private property, that's what we learned about the function of SHIPDA, it does not have the power to enforce on private property. Now when you looking at Nukumoi, I'm going to jump to Nukumoi, there was illegal grubbing and grading right there, SHIPDA knew it could not enforce on private property again, and that was Knudsen. So what the county did is (inaudible) after the fact fine which was a $1,000 but I believe there is a $10,000 fine for every rock that is removed from any heiau sites, I think that is the law, the State law. 13 Mr. Bynum: So. Thank you Mr. Rowe for your testimony and just um you know the questions that we asked Planning to address today and apparently... you said you didn't get an answer.. apparently this Council can't get an answer either. The questions we asked was about the EA mauka that you know says that they're going to drain water into this area and it's going to go on into the ocean but as you said it appears that... there is... we all know that there is no outlet to the ocean there so if you're plan mauka says oh we're going to drain into the ocean outfall and it doesn't exist, there's something wrong with the basic premise and so that's what... one of the questions we're asking. So you know I'd like to move forward and find solutions but looking back to find out where we find the problems you know helps place some responsibility and also gives us clues to how we address the issue so thank you for your testimony. Mr. Rowe: You're welcome. Mr. Bynum: Is there anyone else who wants to testify on this matter? If not, I'll call the meeting back to order and I just expressed my frustration, I don't know what else to do other than ask for a deferral. Any comments from other Councilmembers, before we do that? Councilmember Chang? The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Mr. Chang: Thank you Councilmember Bynum and first off thank you for bringing this on the agenda it was very enlightening. I think we remember the flooding right during Christmas prior... prior to Christmas Eve, Christmas Day meeting up into New Years, we had communication I know Councilmember Kawahara was also calling the Administration in regards to that extensive dumping... gathering and dumping of water and finally got that and I know my concern was because of the fact that you know that was the busiest weekend for us as far as tourism and our local residents being on vacation break and much of that parking lot could not be utilized but and I also want to thank Lenny for coming here today and providing us with these beautiful aerials, I was going over these aerials with Tessie and Rupert and you know looking all the way from 1960 to presently 1987 it was extremely enlightening because you know you can see some discoloration of the water and you know you can clearly see a lot of sand and (inaudible) that's defined there and you know it comes of interest because I just realize now that the natural water as Rupert was making reference to I guess it was buried like after Iniki perhaps? And I think when you displaced the natural flow it kind of begs to ask a couple of questions because when I looked at the September 15, 1992 photo, the color photo, you see the discoloration there in front of the Waiohai area itself and I was wondering if that was a natural outlet that we mentioned but I was correct that it's not. The natural outlet eventually got buried over so it it's of very interest because when you look at the photo from 1992 during the hurricane and the destruction in that area, then you look at 1999 and there's still a lot of sand and interestingly if you look at the parking lot area over here it's obviously not paved toward the Waiohai area itself, I believe was still closed. And then we go back just a few years thereafter in 8 years after and the tombolo is almost gone in that short time so you.. you sort of wonder that you know mother nature has it's reason for it being where its at and of course there's no scientific evidence or proof or what have you but its just interesting that I don't know if it's global warming or whatever it is but its just so much disappearance of sand in such a short period of time it then begs to question a lot of activity happened in the short period of time. So you now Councilmember Bynum just by bringing this up, I think we've got a lot of concerns because we all know the (inaudible) short-term solution but it would have been nice to hear some sort of reasoning as far as a long-term solution so ah, so again I'm sorry it didn't work out the way that it did but thank 14 you for bringing this concern up for all of us because I know this is going to be a long process and with that being said as you said earlier you know for the members that were here throughout the course of the day, just to stick around and testify it's obviously your manao, you folks are the ones there from that great ahupuaa so we appreciate the testimony because I think we've got some work to do regarding this issue. So again thank you, Councilmember Bynum thank you. Mr. Bynum: Okay anyone else. Okay so I entertain a motion to defer. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Kaneshiro, seconded by Councilmember Chang, and unanimously carried, Communication PWE 2009-2 was deferred. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 5:53 p.m. Respectfully submitted, fowl ~l~'~~ Darrellyne M. Simao Council Services Assistant I APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on September 16, 2009: TIM B UM Chair, Public Works/El er y Affairs Committee 15