HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-08-2009 Public Hearing Minutes Bill No. 2318 PUBLIC HEARING
JULY 8, 2009
A public hearing of the Council of the County of Kauai was called to order by
Jay Furfaro, Chair, Planning Committee, on Wednesday, July 8, 2009, at 2:00 p.m.
at the Council Chambers, Historic County Building, 4396 Rice Street, Lihu`e,
Kauai, and the presence of the following was noted:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable Jay Furfaro
Honorable Daryl W. Kaneshiro
Honorable Lani T. Kawahara
Honorable Derek S. K. Kawakami
Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing, Council Chair
The Clerk read the notice of the public hearing on the following:
BILL NO. 2318 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, RELATING TO THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE (Farm Worker Housing),
which was passed on first reading and ordered to print by the Council of the County
of Kauai on June 3, 2009, and published in The Garden Island newspaper on
June 10, 2009.
The following communications were received for the record:
1. Chris Kobayashi email, dated July 7, 2009
2. JoAnn A. Yukimura, dated July 8, 2009
3. Louisa Wooton, dated July 8, 2009
4. Robert Grinpas, dated July 8, 2009
5. Rebecca Miller, dated July 8, 2009
6. Marie Mauger, dated July 8, 2009
7. Keone Kealoha, Executive Director, Malama Kauai, dated July 8, 2009
8. Susan Liddle, dated July 8, 2009
9. "Petition for Support of the Farm Worker Housing Bill" (37 pages of
signatures)
10. Alice Parker, dated July 8, 2009
11. John Wooten, Wooten's Produce of Kauai, dated March 8, 2009
12. Bill Robertson, Ahonui Farms, dated July 8, 2009
13. Roy Oyama, President, Kauai County Farm Bureau, dated July 8, 2009
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The hearing proceeded as follows:
LOUISA WOOTON: Alright. Well, I'm from the south, and we talk
slowly, but I'll try to get through this in three minutes, but I think I might go a
little bit over. Our family began farming here on Kauai in 1979 on leased property,
and from 79 through 1991 we continued to lease property until we were finally able
to own our own farm in Waipake. From 1979 to 91 we watched the cost of ag land
escalate from 20,000 to 100,000 per acre. In the 1980s, we began seeing ag condos
with those funny little Sears shed dotting the landscape of Kauai. This insidious
system chopped up some of the most productive land on the island and was a
speculator's dream come true. So by 1991 when we could finally afford land, we
were in the position of having to buy into a CPR. It would have been our real dream
to have bought the entire 11-acre parcel, but the cost was out of our reach. Well,
some of you may only know our family to have the last dairy farm on Kauai; we also
produce an abundance of certified organic produce. I'd like to call to your attention
the realities that we faced in these two aspects of our farm: one is dairy, the other is
certified organic. Dairy for us means milking goats two times a day, seven days a
week, 365 days in a year. This is 28 hours a week milking the goats. We make
cheese from our milk, which means we pasteurize four times a week. So you can
add 12 hours for the pasteurizing. The cheese is then drained and packaged, and
this requires another 16 hours per week. That's just 56 hours that it requires to
make the cheese. If you want to add in another 12 (at least) hours for caring for the
animals, cleaning their houses, mending fences, etc. Certified organic means that
we do not use herbicides to kill weeds. This is done by ho`ohana, physical labor. We
don't use synthetic pesticides or fertilizers. In fact, we make most of our own
fertilizer by composting our manure, and the manure handling and composting
takes at least 5 hours per week, sometimes more. Tending our orchards and
gardens adds another 40 hours. In addition to this, we now farm a quarter acre on
our daughter and son in-law's neighboring property, and that cost about another 20
hours per week. Add in the harvesting, selling at four farmers markets weekly, and
delivering our products islandwide, and you would see another 40 hours. So if you
guys aren't getting tired, I'm getting tired just talking about it. But we're not a 173
minimum man hours, although most of our workers are women. We have not yet
mentioned that we also make value added products such as goats milk soap, baked
goods, salsas, guacamoles, vinaigrettes, the list goes on, chocolate dipped frozen
bananas, okay. So just for good measure, let's say another 20 hours; it's probably
considerably more than that. Now when you listen to these hours that I mentioning
to you, I want you to know that I'm 57 years old and my husband is 68 years old,
okay. We couldn't do this business without farm workers, and it wouldn't be
possible. Our son and daughter in-law are our principles in our business now, and
we also have two live-in workers that work around 19 hours per week each.
Mr. Furfaro: How much more do you have?
Ms. Wooton: Maybe a minute and a half?
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Mr. Furfaro: Go ahead.
Ms. Wooton: I'll go as fast as I can. In 2006, acting on a
complaint, the county planning department required that we remove the small
kitchenette that we had provided in our own house for Ryan and Sara. Without the
option of maintaining a separate dwelling, they became discouraged and returned to
Sara's home on the mainland. We were devastated by that, but we went ahead and
relied on our interns who either lived in tents or in the two spare bedrooms in our
house. However, Ryan and Sara and came back in 2007 and they are now 50%
shareholders in our little farm corporation. Since their return in 2006, we have
noticed the gross receipts in our farm to climb from 60,000 to $145,000.
In review the draft bill that you have before you, there are three amendments
that I would like to point out could cause undue hardship on bona fide farmers, and
these are all found in section 2 on that draft bill. The first is how the farmer is
defined, a farm worker, and we must include in that a farm owner, as the primary
and most significant farm worker of all. Also, item a, and there's a $35,000 gross
requirement per year to meet the farm worker housing definition, and I think that
for start up years of farming when no sales occur and a farm still needs workers
that this should be looked at very carefully. Item number "i" is of particular
interest to me, and that's why I talked to you about farm condos. It's mandatory for
the purpose of this bill, when you're describing the property, that each farm is
looked at as its own entity. If that farm, like ours, is on a CPR property, we
shouldn't have to wait for the other people within that CPR to build their dwelling
before we would be able to build farm worker housing, because that lot that is
perhaps not built yet could be for speculation and might be years down the road
before they ever built, okay. That's very important. And I just hope that in
whatever final version that we come up with here that it will be favorable to bona
fide farmers like ourselves and many other people in this room, and we feel that the
survival of sustainable farming here on Kauai is on the balance in this bill and that
it be a workable and fair bill for farmers. And I thank you so much for hearing this.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. I do want to point out that the
question about condo ownership, the fact that when the parcels were subdivided, I
don't even want to use that word because that's the county's reply. When the
parcels were divided by common elements, you are required by State law, and this
is a State issue, CPRs, that deal with the fact that the density from the parcel, as
it's divvied up, and this is a real dilemma for us, has to be managed by the
association. In many terminologies, I do not think that the issue with the owner
having the primary dwelling there will be an issue that an owner couldn't comply
to, but it might turn out, like on Maui, that there is an amendment that deals with
the 35,000 being one of the terms, but you might have something that shows your
schedule F farm plan and how many staff you need to actually run the enterprise,
and a water source, as well as perhaps having 75 percent of your land actually in
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cultivation. Maybe the amendment we're thinking might deal with the things that
you brought up, and maybe you only had to comply to 3 of the 4 or something. But
they are on our radar screen. I just want to share that with you.
Ms. Wooton: And just...I'm thinking I understood what you said
about the condo part of it that for this purposes of this bill that it could be looked at
as an individual entity, because the deed...
Mr. Furfaro: I clearly heard you, but there's this overlapping law
that says the lot, before it was subdivided, I don't want to use that term here, before
it was divided by common areas, the fact of the matter is that parcel had density,
and there may be a conflict in the rules that indicate what kind of jurisdiction we
have over the real estate commission. I'm not saying we've come to a conclusion.
I'm just saying it's something that we are aware of (inaudible).
Ms. Wooton: But of course the county looks at us individually
when collecting property taxes and in issuing us a water meter and providing ag
rates for us. No every one of those parcels on that ag condo has ag rates. So I'm
hoping for the purpose of this bill, the county can also look at it in that light,
because they do for property tax.
Mr. Furfaro: I don't want to pursue more dialogue than I shared
with you, but I did want to make sure you knew we see that as a red flag item when
we get to the workshop on the 15tH.
Ms. Wooton: Okay, we'll see you there.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. Next speaker, Keone,
followed by Lelan Nishek.
KEONE KEALOHA: Aloha Councilmembers, Committee Chair Furfaro.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill. I'm going to keep my comments
fairly short because there's lots of folks here who are bona fide farmers who can
share with you their personal experiences in great detail on the details that are
contained within the bill. I think what I'd like to do is to just speak to the need for
a farm worker housing policy in general...and to encourage you to see this move
forward...and to actually get what it is that we're looking for out of this, which is to
help the farmers to continue farming. The question always comes up, why can't we
feed ourselves? We have the Garden Island here, so where's the garden? One of the
biggest issues that we have growing food is the labor cost, and one of the best ways
that we can be competitive with that is to offer our farm labor adequate housing
that's reasonable and equitable for the farmer and the worker. And this is our
opportunity with this bill to do that-to solve a problem that is in our jurisdiction.
If we look at our major industries, our tourism, our visitor industry, our
development/construction, these are things that have huge variables that are well
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beyond our control. They greatly impact our economy and our communities. This is
something that we have the ability to manage ourselves. There are existing laws in
place right now, there are codes and regulations, but again, these things, many of
them are within our control to massage or to upgrade or to enhance in a way that
will allow for adequate farm housing to be implemented here. So my statements
are really just around that to say let's move this into committee, let's work on the
details at the workshop next week, there's going to be a lot of comments on the
details, but again, I think that together we can figure out what those details are,
and let's keep in mind who it is that we're trying to help here. We're really trying to
keep our farmers farming. When there are situations where farms who have been
here for 20 or 30 years are looking at potentially shutting down their farms because
of just purely because of the housing issue, that's a failure on our part as a
community to come together to solve that problem. So this is our opportunity as a
community to come together and make sure those farms stay in production, make
sure those farmers are feeding us, you know. It might take anything from as small
as a dock strike, Matson, to light up our pocketbooks as far as what we're going to
be paying for our food. We don't need to wait for that kind of stuff to happen for us
to know that this is an urgent and important issue. So mahalo for your time. Lots
of the information is going to come forth from our bona fide farmers. Please take it
all in, and hope to see you again in a week. Mahalo.
Mr. Furfaro: Keone, let me see if there's any questions for you.
There are none, and I do want to take this moment just to say that we do recognize
that labor and housing is a component of, you know, why we're not farming more.
But some of the other issues that you brought up is marketing, the brand, product
pricing, water source are all important issues too, and we will continue to be
focusing in on housing for now. So thank you very much. We have Lelan Nishek,
followed by Scott Pomeroy.
LELAN NISHEK: Good afternoon. I'm Lelan Nishek. I own and
operate Kauai Nursery and Landscaping, and right now we employ about 115
people, and the only reason we have been successful, we...in 1980s we built
employee housing, and it's worked out great, and we've been able to keep a good
workforce and good people in our organization. And when we relocated our nursery
in the 90s, we were able to negotiate with Grove Farm at that time on the land that
we were leasing to allow two employee housing units on the land, and we've only
put up one so far, but it's worked out very well for security purposes. And I think
that this is something the Council should look at too that farmers that are on leased
land should be able to develop housing for security purposes. And I'm glad to see
that the Council is taking this ag housing bill up, get the discussion with the
community on it. It's something that I think that's really needed, and I'd support
you in whatever you do in your deliberations. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Are there any question of Mr. Nishek? Did you
have one Lani?
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Ms. Kawahara: I just had one simple one.
Mr. Furfaro: We have one question for you, Lelan.
Ms. Kawahara: Thank you. When you were talking about security,
mostly you were talking about your equipment and all the items that are on
your property?
Mr. Nishek: Yes.
Ms. Kawahara: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Lelan. We're next is Scott Pomeroy,
followed by Sun from One Song Farm.
SCOTT POMEROY: Hello, I'm Scott, and I'd just like to say I've been
growing food as my sole source of income for the past 20 years here on Kauai. I just
mention that so you know that you're not talking to just a philosopher. So the first
thing I'd like to say, I'd like you to be careful in putting money in the definition of a
farm, because that's something that has led us down a kind of a slippery slope.
There's no doubt that ag land needs to be protected; everyone kind of knows that.
I'm in full support of that. It's just that the business of farming, now and in the
past, has been basically to extract as much money or product out of an acre of land
that's possible, okay. That's led to really severe depletion of the soils, so I'm making
a point here. And it's directly related to more and more pressure for farmers,
monetary pressure, okay. We need to move away from that, and we need to be more
concerned with how well a farm is taken care of rather than how much money it
makes. So an example is I bought my farm 10 years ago, and I talked to the
previous farmers that were leasing that land, and I asked them, well why don't you
want to buy it? They said, well we can't grow anything out there anymore. And you
know, that's kind o£ ..you kind of go, okay, well... I looked at the land and I thought
maybe I could, you know, grow something there, so we ended up buying it. But
okay, enough of the bad news. Let's go for the good news. There's a new mindset
out of the necessity to remediate these depleted lands, and that's to grow food for
yourself, your family, and your community while improving the quality of the soil,
okay. To do this...well it requires a lot of devotion, but it also requires a lot of labor.
That's what where the farm worker housing comes in for me, okay. I require a lot of
labor to do most of the remediation on my farm. So... It's a whole new ballgame,
but the good news also is that it can be done, and we're doing it. So I just want to
make another point that this bill doesn't give farmers house sites; it gives them the
opportunity to apply for use permits to have...to build affordable small structures to
live in and so they can be close to the land and do the right thing with it. Because
without that, we can't live in Princeville and pay rent and commute. It requires
a...it's a very intense form of farming-food growing. So I'd just like to say that this
bill is an opportunity for the county council to actually say yes, we want to support
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farming, and we're actually willing to risk making a few mistakes to get the ball
rolling, because that's pretty much what we're asking, you know. Everybody's
afraid of abuse of ag land, right? We all are; I especially.
Mr. Furfaro: We have 3 minutes. I'm going to give you a little
more time.
Mr. Pomeroy: Yeah, I got one more minute at the most. So I'd
just like to say that this bill isn't about just giving a roof to a few farmers. It's
about creating a infrastructure, what I call a friendly...a farmer friendly
environment for new farmers, for young farmers, and existing farmers. So you
know, I'd just like to say, you know, we really need to support this bill to create a
farm friendly environment so we can grow this food and it can be done. One more
thing I'd like to do. I'd like to leave you with a visual image. Okay, if we have one
productive 5-acre farm, it can easily produce most of the nutrition for a hundred
families. Okay, you do the math, a hundred productive 5-acre farms, 10,000
families. Now that's a significant number, and we can do this, but we do need help.
We need to take care of the soil, we need to kind of implement a different method of
farming to do this, but it's easily done and it's being done right now. But we're
having a little difficulty with the farm housing thing. Okay, so that's it.
Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Hold on Scott. Let me see if there's any questions.
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I just wanted to appreciate your comments about
being...needing to maybe take some risk that there may be some abuse in order to
correct, you know, in order to provide the support that we need for the things you're
talking about, and appreciate the opportunity to learn more about soil and farming
and the potential. But the concern about abuse is real, because farm land has been
abused on Kauai, and so we're going to work really hard to strike that balance. But
I appreciate that comment about... I doubt we'll come up with the perfect formula.
Mr. Pomeroy: I don't think that this bill is the perfect thing. We
have some issues to work out even within this bill, but it's a great way to start. It's
saying yes. Let's go from here.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Mr. Pomeroy: And I would personally invite anybody in this room
if they want to know more about what I'm talking about in the farm specter to come
out to my farm. I don't talk well here, but I do a lot better out there. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Scott, just hold on a second. I think many of us
have been out to some of the farms there, but you know, I think Mr. Bynum said it,
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you know, I mean allow some abuse. The reality is law is law. That's why we have
to tie these things down there, because clearly, you've made some good points here
on some of the amendments I've mentioned. On the 15th, if you'd like to come back
and tell us, you know, maybe 75 percent being part of the farm plan is too much
because you got to rotate a third of the...you know, give us something for the
workshop. And obviously, you know, the reality in your schedule F and when you're
trying to come up with staffing guides to give you the density for your workforce
plan, you know we have to have something to tie it to. And I say that as the
co-introducer of the bill. So please...
Mr. Pomeroy: I'm working on all that.
Mr. Furfaro: Please come back on the 15th.
Mr. Pomeroy: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Chang had a question.
Mr. Chang: Yeah. Thanks Scott. I had a question. Where is
your farm and what are you growing?
Mr. Pomeroy: My farm is in Moloa`a. I have 15 acres, and I grow
mixed vegetables for the farmers markets, for some of the health food stores. I have
a thousand trees planted, hardwood trees primarily for windbreaks, and probably 3
to 400 trees...fruit trees that I harvest seasonally throughout the year.
Mr. Chang: Thank you.
Mr. Pomeroy: You're welcome.
Mr. Furfaro: Anymore questions of Scott? Scott, thank you very
much. Look forward to your other comments. We are calling on Sun from One Song
Farm, followed by Susan Liddle.
SUN: I'm glad to be here.
Mr. Furfaro: You have to first sit down and introduce yourself,
because we need to document your testimony. Go right ahead.
Sun: Yeah, I'm glad here. I get to see these guys. We're
busy farming. I've been here about 20 years on and off and created a lot of farms.
I'm not used to talking here either, so much less words; we're farmers, so... I can't
say anymore than what these people have said already, but what we do is viable,
it's economically viable, it's sustainable, and it's what Kauai needs right now. So
that's all I want to add.
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Mr. Furfaro: Well thank you for that. Do we have any questions
here? Sounds like we're good.
Sun: Got to make it to the irrigation place.
Mr. Furfaro: We have Susan Liddle, followed by John Stern.
SUSAN LIDDLE: I'm not used to this either. Aloha Council. My
name is Susan Liddle for the record. I own property in Moloa`a. I want to testify in
favor of the farm worker housing, but first I want to thank the councilmembers who
have taken the time to meet with us to discuss this issue and help us to understand
the process that takes place when forming a bill like this. We all know how
important growing food for our island is. Sustainable agriculture is one of the most
important issues facing our island communities, but without the food that is grown
on-island by the farmers and their workers, we would be required to obtain food
from foreign sources, which may not always be there for us. Now is the time to
facilitate sustainable agriculture. Farm worker housing is a key to that result. I
also want to state that we are all quite aware and concerned about farm land being
overbuilt with structures, but I want to stress how important it is for farmers to live
on their land. Theft, vandalism, leaks in irrigation lines, feral pigs-all are
everyday problems for farmers. There is a delay... If there is a delay in responding
to these situations, severe damage and crop loss can take place. It is important for
farmers to be there on the land day and night to resolve these problems in a timely
manner. All that most farmers want is a place for their workers to comfortably live
without fear of being thrown off their land for violating the law. We are addressing
today a farm worker housing bill that has been in the development stages for some
time. We the farmers would like to make a few more recommendations for changes
to the bill.
In referring to the bill in front of you, bill 2318, formerly bill 2293, under the
qualifications for a farm, you will see the requirement of a filing of a schedule F
form. We feel that there should be three additional designations: a farm plan
approved by the natural resources conservation services or ag dedication by the
county real property tax division, gross sales of agricultural products of not more
than $12,000 annually, and 75 percent of the subject parcel used for farming, and
that the applicant should qualify for at least three of the four designations. As you
noticed the gross sales amount I suggest is $12,000. I'm quoting from a USDA
newsletter that was forwarded to me this morning as a matter of fact by Louise
Wooton. The title is "Exploring Alternative Farm Definitions." [See Attachment 1
hereto.] And I hope... I only have a couple copies of these, but I will submit this
to you.
Mr. Furfaro: If you give us one, the staff can make copies.
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Ms. Liddle: Okay. One of the important...there's many
important things in here, but one of the important ones is how various criteria
would have affected federal aid eligibility for family farms in 2006. It says, if
eligibility had been contingent on, and one of the items is annual farm sales of at
least $10,000...
Mr. Furfaro: Could you hold on just one second. That was your
first three minutes, but I'm going to go ahead and give you your additional time.
Ms. Liddle: Thank you. The share of family farms that would
have been disqualified for the federal eligibility was 58 to 70 percent. Also, there's
many more...much more information in here, which I will submit to you. Under the
definition of farm worker and the bill that you're addressing, it should read farm
owner, employee, and contract worker or intern, and they should work 14 hours per
week. It was rationalized that each worker should work at least 2 hours a day.
Under farm worker housing, we feel that it should add that no rent should be
charged. And finally, that if it is deemed that farming ceases to exist, the owner
shall remove all farmer worker housing within 6 months, instead of the 4 that you
have. There are a few other suggestions to discuss...for discussion that are too
lengthy to incorporate here. We hope to continue the discussion when we go to
committee. One of the other items that was a problem for the housing agency was
the question regarding temporary housing, like the requirement of removing axles
and wheels, and it was suggested that farm worker housing be exempt from that
requirement. I have a copy of these suggested amendments [See Attachment 2
hereto.] and also my testimony, but I believe Mr. Furfaro already has a copy of
the amendment.
Mr. Furfaro: Yes.
Ms. Liddle: Any questions?
Mr. Furfaro: Let me go... First Mr. Kaneshiro.
Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you Mr. Chair. Why even have a dollar
amount when you mention requiring a schedule F, and also the (inaudible) will be
dedicated to ag? Obviously those are two examples of a real farmer-schedule F,
dedication of the land to either a 10 year or 20 year. So why was the $12,000
amount thrown in?
Ms. Liddle: The $12,000 amount was in response to the $35,000
that was required or requested by the planning commission. So as a reaction to
that... It wouldn't hurt our feelings if we didn't have a dollar amount.
Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. You clarified my question. Thank you.
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Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Just...you referred to our feelings. Are you
representing a group, or is this your testimony?
Ms. Liddle: No, we've just worked on this bill for a long time, so
I feel like it's all of ours.
Mr. Bynum: Oh, so we meaning everybody in the room?
Ms. Liddle: We meaning the people who have been working
significantly on this bill: Malama Kauai and others...Louisa from the
very beginning.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Asing: I have a question, Jay.
Mr. Furfaro: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The Chairman had a
question.
Ms. Liddle: Oh I'm sorry.
Council Chair Asing: Susan, how large is your farm? What size is it...
Ms. Liddle: Our personal farm is eight and a half acres.
Council Chair Asing: If you had your way, how many units would you
like to see for your farm housing...I guess to take care of the farming activities on
your 8-acre parcel?
Ms. Liddle: If I had my...
Council Chair Asing: Yeah.
Ms. Liddle: ...dream, we would have two units. One for my
husband and I, and one for my children. My daughter in-law is the one who really
does most of the farming currently. If we lived there or were able to live there, we
would do much more farming. My husband and I would do more farming. We have
trees that are growing now, not producing yet. We would be able to take care of it a
lot better if we lived on the land.
Council Chair Asing: Okay, so what you're saying is on your 8 acres you
would need one unit for your family and an additional unit.
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Ms. Liddle: In an ideal situation.
Council Chair Asing: That would satisfy you.
Ms. Liddle: Yes.
Council Chair Asing: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Anymore questions for Susan? Let me go to
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Are you going to be here next week?
Ms. Liddle: I'm going to make an effort to be here next week.
Mr. Bynum: Okay, I just... I'll hold my questions for then.
Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: Hi Susan. I just wanted to ask you a question, and
it probably pertains to all the farmers. Is it easy to get workers now, with the...or is
it difficult to get workers in the farming?
Ms. Liddle: It's hard to keep farmers, because if they don't have
a place to live, or they're paying for...they have to make more money than most
farmers can give them. If they were able to live on the land where they're doing the
farming, they can more affordably live on what farmers can pay them. My
understanding is that a lot of people have lost their workers because when
construction or maintenance of landscapers...landscaping people can pay them more
money and they go make more money with them. So it's hard to keep them without
having some place to live.
Mr. Chang: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Lani, go right ahead.
Ms. Kawahara: Sue, thank you. When we're talking about the farm
worker housing, we also have to consider that they're not going to be large units
because it's expensive for the farmer owner to build right?
Ms. Liddle: That's right.
Ms. Kawahara: So I just wanted to be sure the public was aware.
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Ms. Liddle: There are many farmers who would like to have
quite small structures.
Ms. Kawahara: Yes. Yes, I've seen very small structures that have
just...you know, just the bare minimum space for people to sleep in, and the rest of
the time they're working. So I wanted the public to be clear that when we're talking
about farm worker housing, it's the farm owner or the farmer that's going to be
paying for that, and technically, that is not something that they're going to expend
enormous amounts of money on and take a lot of space on their very profitable land.
So I wanted to say that in regards to your statement regarding how many you
would want.
Ms. Liddle: Yes, absolutely. Yes, and probably we would be
able to do...you know, it depends on the kitchens and things like that. We'd
probably do with one structure if we could have it split in a way that your family
isn't on top of each other...or workers separate.
Ms. Kawahara: Okay. Yeah, the ones that I've seen are 10 by 30...
Ms. Liddle: The ones you've seen are quite smaller than that.
Ms. Kawahara: Yeah, very small, very small. Okay thank you.
Possible ones.
Ms. Liddle: Yes.
Mr. Furfaro: One moment Susan.
Council Chair Asing: Yeah, just a kind of follow-up question. Do you
currently live on the farm now?
Ms. Liddle: No, I live in Kapa`a.
Council Chair Asing: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Sue, I just want to say this just for the general
audience. You know, some of these things that are in the bill, you know there was
some rationale put into it. For example, the 14 hours, because we're talking about
giving density, the 14 hours for the workforce was really some of the
recommendations that we have from federal HUD right now where no more than 30
percent of someone's, you know, income, gross income, should be earmarked for any
of the HUD housing. And so when you add utilities on to there, because there was
an assumption that the farm community would provide utilities for that unit, that's
how they arrived at the 14 hours. Just so that we know there was some rationale
there. But I do hope to see you on the 15th.
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Ms. Liddle: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: No more questions, Sue. Thank you. We have
John Stern, followed by Scott Neuman.
JOHN STERN: Good afternoon everybody. I'm John Stern. I've
lived on the island for about 18 months. I represent today someone who is directly
involved, although not an owner or manager, I actually am farm worker. So I would
be directly affected by this. Since I've been on the island, I've lived in a
condominium and I've been working several hours per week on a farm in Moloa`a,
Sun's farm who testified earlier. I'm definitely for farm worker housing. I think
other people can comment on the fine points of this issue much better than I can. I
just want to say that as a farm worker, I want to do it, I want to help out, because I
want to provide...help do my share in bringing high quality food to the people of
Kauai, and I want to make it easier for myself to do that, I want to make it easier
for the farmers, and I think this bill having some provision for farm housing would
go a long way towards that. Right now I work several hours per week on farm that
Sun is on, and I have to commute. That's no fun. I just want to put in my time and
have a nice lifestyle at the same time. I also want to maybe make a couple points
about these improvements in the bill. I'm seeing things about defining farm
workers, which definitely the owner should be involved, should be included as a
farm worker. The requirement of $35,000 gross proceeds, well I know that the
farmers that I work for, Sun and Lisa back there, their focus is simply on providing
high...very, very, very high quality good food, getting it out to people, and showing
people the possibilities of what can be done what food is grown in a truly
sustainable way. Their focus is not so much dollars and cents. We all of us live a
very simple lifestyle. So I hope you pass this. I hope some form of it passes. I think
something is almost for sure better than nothing. Sometimes the cost of doing
nothing, the risk of that far exceeds that of doing something even if it has a few
holes in it. So thank you very much.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay, let me see if there's any questions for you,
John. Are there any questions for John?
Council Chair Asing: John, you say you work several hours a day on the
farm?
Mr. Stern: Several hours per week...two hours per day.
Council Chair Asing: So you work...
Mr. Stern: Most of the time pulling nut grass.
Council Chair Asing: So you work two hours...
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Mr. Stern: Most of the time pulling nut grass. Never mind.
It's a farming joke.
Council Chair Asing: Okay. I just wanted to have an idea as to...I guess
you consider yourself a farm worker and that you currently work two...
Mr. Stern: I'm...basically I'm volunteering when I can. Little
or not pay, I just want to help get the food out. I like the environment. I like the
work. I have other work I've been doing. I want to help this and create a
sustainable Kauai and learn more about the process.
Council Chair Asing: So you have a full time work somewhere else?
Mr. Stern: I strive my best to do other things. I'm also a
massage therapist and a body worker. That's what I've been doing in the past.
Generally that's what I've been pursuing since I got here, yes.
Council Chair Asing: Okay thank you. Appreciate that.
Mr. Furfaro: John I had a couple questions. Would you say you
work at least 14 hours over a 7-day period?
Mr. Stern: I think in the last 7 days I have. I've been there
more and more. Most of the time it's been just a few hours per week, because it
takes a lot actually to manage people who are new to a farm, so I'm just learning
and...
Mr. Furfaro: Okay, well I just want to take an opportunity to
talk to you as an actual farm worker. Have you involved yourself in any farm
internships? Have you looked into any of the...
Mr. Stern: Just what I've done so far.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay, thank you very much. We're going to go to
Scott Neuman, then Kim has decided not to testify. After that we're going to go to
Linda Neuman. So Scott, and then Linda.
SCOTT NEUMANN: Hi, good afternoon. My name is Scott Neumann,
and I own a 10-acre farm in Moloa`a. And I'm here today to bring up some points
about farming that I don't really have seen addressed in any of the meetings or
committees. And that fundamentally, farmers are entrepreneurs, and they try to
gain these small enterprises, which in turn feed a lot of people in the community. If
you look at the economics of becoming a farmer and the prices of land, people have a
lot of options. Who would invest their money into a high dollar piece of farm when
15
the return on it, in the beginning especially, is minimal. You could take your money
and you could put it in a savings account and it'll probably do better. So what
you're really asking is of people who have committed their hearts and desires to this
enterprise, and not everybody wants to do that, and God bless the people in this
room who do, because they put their time, their effort, and their money where their
mouths are, and that in turn is creating other enterprises on this island. The food
that is distributed is so...feeds people, the farm workers, all these things are
involving Kauai. The money isn't going off the island; it's revolving around the
island. These small enterprises should be supported, because that is really what
Kauai needs at this time-are people who are entrepreneurs who are willing to
invest these large amounts of money into these enterprises that do not reap giant
returns. And by that fact alone, they're demonstrating their desire to continue
farming. The other issue I'd like to point out about this bill is that there are a lot of
abuses on ag land for people who are farm dwellings and they're not farming. Well,
if they were to implement these criteria for farming, they could also go to the farms
or in these neighborhoods with large homes on acreage who do not have anything
planted and give them the same criteria-you need to show your schedule Fs, you
need to show what you're producing, and with the criteria of removing their house,
maybe we would see more people start to farm on these fancy lots that have no
farms really on them. But I'd really like to thank the council for supporting farms,
and to be here today to bring this bill at least to this point. Farmers need to be on
their land to be profitable, and that profit is minimal with back breaking work. Not
many people will do that with money in the economy. I mean let's give them the
opportunities. Thank you for your time.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Scott. Let me see if there's any
questions from any of the members. Scott, and I said this earlier, I appreciate your
point, but that is one of the reasons. The bill we're hearing today is the bill that
came over to us from the planning department, as recommended, as well as the fact
that, you know, 7 volunteer members of the commission worked on it with the
department. So you know, the verse we have here, I led up to the fact that it may
not be driven by the dollar amount, but rather driven by 3, 4, maybe 5 standards. I
think Sue Liddle touched on it a little bit; I did, where the farmers might choose a
group of those conditions. Obviously people who are going to do avocados or
orchards or so forth, you know they have a longer startup period, and that's why
we're saying a portion of the land that's committed to farming, water source, a
schedule F farm plan, they may do over the money. You know, we haven't gotten
there yet. We hope to work on that on the 15th, but I wanted to give you some
clarity. It's not only drive by the dollar.
Mr. Neuman: Well, I'm familiar with all those things, and what
I'd like to have you all understand is that there is that end of if for farmers to put in
these huge investments on high dollar land to reap minimal amounts of money in
the beginning. We need to be there. No one I know who can really...unless you're
16
rich, then you don't need the house. You need to be on your land. You need to live
there to make it work.
Mr. Furfaro: I think we understand that. Thank you. I was just
trying to clarify your question.
Mr. Neuman: Any other questions?
Mr. Furfaro: No. Okay, we'll go to Linda Neuman.
LINDA NEUMAN: Aloha. Thank you for seeing me. I'm Linda
Neuman, and that was my husband. Thank you for your time and energy in this
matter. I've been waiting 7 years for this opportunity to speak. Excuse me for
being choked up, but this is very emotional for me, and my family, and my husband,
and we're all here today for you to listen and hear what we have to say. State law
recognized the necessity for farmers to live on their land. I'm here to ask you to
consider the amended version and pass the bill giving farmers the right to live on
their land and farm here on Kauai. This bill would align the county with the State
law. The right we thought we had when we started our farm. Farming is a way of
life. I do not pack lunch and drive to the farm to work. Farming is not an easy life,
but it is the life we chose. I get up before the sun, start the water, get my daughter
ready for school, take her to school, come back, get worked on the farm, I do work, it
gets hot, I take a break, I need shelter to eat my lunch, it's hot out there. My
husband and I manage 10 acres ourselves. When the water pipe breaks, if we're not
there to fix it or turn off the water, the water erodes the land, it damages the crops,
and it costs money. I think after hearing, you kind of get the idea of what we live.
We choose this life. We love to farm. The amended bill is a fair bill. It will support
small family farm enterprises like ours. It will support...to use the mayor's term
when he came to our farm euro dinner, the kaleidoscope of people that you have
here today. We grow a variety of food items on our farm for a diversified cornucopia
of food for this island. We do not export. This bill will increase the local production
of food for this island. If this bill does not pass, we will be homeless. We cannot
afford our farm and the cost of a new home, gas, and time driving back and forth.
All of our money goes into this farm. Like some of you, I have a daughter. She's 14
years old. In 4 years she's going to be ready for college. Passing this bill truly
shows the community your support for family farming. State law permits farmers
living on their land. You have that ability to give my family hope for our life, our
farm, and our future. Farm dwellings for farmers. Mahalo. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much, and let me see if there are
any members that have questions. Mr. Chair did you have a question?
Council Chair Asing: Yes. Linda, from your husband who said that you
have a 10 acre farm?
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Ms. Neuman: 10 acres.
Council Chair Asing: Thank you. Do you currently live on the farm?
Ms. Neuman: I had no alternative. When I purchased this land, I
purchased land that...from everything that I read was agricultural land with the
right to farm. It wasn't until I turned in my farm plan and did everything according
to State law that I went to the county to apply for my permit and I was told there
was no density. I came here with 2 suitcases. I am not a young woman. I lived in a
tent. I brought my daughter to school and she showered at the beach park. My
daughter is an A student, honor student. She is an excellent community member.
We have raised our daughter illegally. This is very difficult. She cannot bring her
friends to our house. She's shamed. This is very important for you to understand
farming...farm families. Yes sir, I live illegally on my land.
Council Chair Asing: Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. My reason
really for asking is that, you know, when I hear a 10-acre piece, and then I now hear
no density allowed, then I'm saying something is wrong someplace, something
happened. So in my opinion, and I don't know your particular case on what
happened and what the reasons were, but evidently something happened to cause
your 10-acre piece to not receive any density. And I believe that density was taken
out by somebody else who used up the density for that parcel. And it's not good, but
I think you can see that, you know, there were things that was probably done that
was not right, so to speak. So I have some concerns, only because I hear 10 acre,
and you tell me no density, and I'm saying wow, something is wrong. So thank you.
Ms. Neuman: With the farm worker housing, you know, it's very
difficult for the two of us to maintain that, and we need help.
Council Chair Asing: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. Thanks Scott as well. So
thank you. next speaker is Elli Ward, as well as JoAnn Yukimura. But I want to
make note that Elli is signed up for JoAnn. So Elli if you'd come up, I'll give you
your own 3 minutes, and then I'll recognize the testimony you have from JoAnn
Yukimura. Go ahead Elli.
ELLI WARD: My name is Elli Ward. I was asked by JoAnn
Yukimura, former councilmember and also who co-authored the original farm
worker housing bill, to present her testimony. She is off island attending a family
reunion, and she would like to share her thoughts with everyone here. Thank you.
And if there's any time left, I also would like to offer my testimony. Chair Furfaro
and members of the Planning Committee, Chair Asing, and Councilmembers.
Mahalo for hearing this important bill, and for your interest and concern about the
problem of farm worker housing. As co-introducer of the original farm worker
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housing bill, which led to bill 2318 before you today, I want to thank Planning
Committee Chair Furfaro for his support and guidance as a partner and
co-introducer of bill 2293. Chair Furfaro and I introduced bill 2293 at the request of
farmers and supporters of farming. It is clear as stated in the purpose of the bill
that agriculture cannot survive or thrive on Kauai without a solution to the farm
worker housing problem. Indeed, former Mayor Baptiste's agriculture advisory
committee identified this problem as one of the top issues that needed action. I
believe there is a strong consensus on this island that we need to grow more of our
food for our security, our health, and our economy. We will not be able to do this
without addressing the need for farm worker housing. Bill 2293 was drafted with
the help of a working committee that included individual farmers and
representatives of the farm bureau and Malama Kauai. In the course of drafting
the bill, we tried to do our homework and consulted a large corporate farmer, the
county real property tax division, the planning department, the health department,
and several other agencies. Bill 2318 before you today represents an improvement
and strengthening of bill 2293 in several respects, and a weakening in several
respects, which hopefully you will address with appropriate amendments.
The planning department and planning commission improved the original
bill by 1) disallowing use permits for farm worker housing where county zoning is
open and lands designated agriculture by the State. Number 2) requiring that
existing zoned density on any farm be first utilized before a use permit for farm
worker housing can be granted. Number 3) requiring a farm plan, which is a
mandate of State law. I want to note here a very important factor, how the two
latter provisions are administered by the planning department will be critical in
terms of whether these provisions will facilitate farm worker housing or not. There
are three significant problems in bill 2318 that would thwart or hurt the purpose of
bill 2318 to facilitate farm worker housing. 1) the definition of farm worker does
not include a farm owner or contract workers. I believe everyone will agree that the
first worker that needs to be housed on the land is the owner of the farm, fee owner,
or long term lessee, without whom there would be no farm. Contract workers are
another common form of farm labor. Contract workers are paid for performance
within a certain amount of time, but not on hourly basis.
Mr. Furfaro: Could you hold on just a second, Elli. The first
three minutes has expired. I'm going to give you the other three minutes to
continue, and then I'm going to give you your own three minutes.
Ms. Ward: Thank you. Whether owner or contract worker,
they will be bound to work certain hours per week, so we are not talking about
non-workers. Number 2, the requirement of $35,000 gross proceeds in two
preceding years per farm worker unit does not fit the economic realities of farming
and will likely bar many genuine (quotes) just starting (closed quotes) or new
farmers from qualifying for farm worker housing at a point in the development of
their farm that farm workers are critically needed. This is especially true of organic
19
farmers who use labor-intensive practices instead of herbicides and oil-based
commercial fertilizers. It is true that Maui county uses the $35,000 gross proceeds
requirement, but farmers are also allowed to meet alternative criteria in lieu of
that $35,000. The bill before you makes the gross proceeds requirement an all or
nothing proposition on Kauai. Farmers are given no alternative ways to qualify for
farm worker housing. The working group would like to suggest the alternative of
demonstrating that 75 percent of the farm's land is used for farming, which was in
bi112293. This criteria was included in the real property tax reform bill proposed by
the Baptiste administration as a criteria for qualifying apiece of land for
agricultural rates and assessments. The real property tax division felt it was a
practical, enforceable distinction for real farming. Third and last, there is also a
concern about the requirement of a farm plan to be approved by the planning
department. The apprehension is that person's with no farming background will be
passing judgment on farm plans. We have drafted an amendment that would
require a plan approved by the appropriate soil and water conservation district
committee or a plan approved by the real property tax division agriculture inspector
as part of approving agricultural dedication. In conclusion, we are close to a
workable bill that will truly facilitate farm worker housing; however, the devil is in
the details. How the details are worked out by you, by amendments, will determine
whether the bill that passes is truly a farm worker housing bill or not. If you have
any questions of me, please email me at jyukimuraChotmail.com. Mahalo.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Elli, and we have copies of that
testimony: Elli, I'm going to give you 3 minutes for yourself, but because you spoke
for 6 minutes straight, we're going to take a caption break now, a 10 minute break.
When we come back, you will be on the floor, followed by Robert Grinpas and Malia
Reid. So we're on a 10-minute recess caption break.
There being no objections, the Chair recessed the hearing at 3:00 p.m. The meeting
reconvened at 3:15 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Furfaro: A couple housekeeping notice for everybody. I have
one request from someone who's on the speaker's list that needs to leave to go to
class. I have another one that needs to go to work. So I just want to announce,
where I was being generous with giving your 6 minutes upfront, I'm going to give
you your 3 minutes, and if you want to come back, you'll drop to the bottom of the
list and you'll be given a chance to speak a second time. So Elli, I'm giving you 3
minutes.
ELLI WARD: My name is Elli Ward and thank you very much for
the additional 3 minutes. I have been so touched by the testimony that I've heard
from the farmers here, and I just can't help but think that we just don't give them
enough credit, enough help. You know, the past events that I'm sure everybody has
noticed, with the death of Michael Jackson, all the tributes and the, you know, the
spectacular events honoring him, I think we should do something about honoring
20
our farmers, and I would like to plant the seed (inaudible) for those who can do
something about it that we should do more about honoring our farmers, consider
them living treasures. Like once a year we should have like dairy farmer of the
year, or papaya farmer of the year, or lettuce grower of the year. You know, just
recognize them and, you know, we actually need them very much. I'm one who
believes in peak oil, global warming, sea level rise, collapse of the U.S. dollar, you
know, all these bad things. We're going to be isolated more and more, and if we
want to survive, we need our farmers. Thank you very much.
Mr. Furfaro: I'm going to go over the next 4 speakers. Robert
Grinpas, Malia Reid, followed by John Parziale, and Trevor Bloom. Then I'm
reinstating Nina Anderson.
ROBERT GRINPAS: Good afternoon Councilmembers, and thank you for
the opportunity to express my comments on this important bill. My name is Robert
Grinpas. I'm a resident of Kapahi and I respectfully request your consideration of
my testimony in support of proposed draft bill 2318. My wife Espy and I have
owned a tropical flower farm in Kapahi for the past 18 years. Also, I had the honor
of being the chairman of the Kauai agriculture advisory committee from 2004
through 2008. Members of the committee were appointed by the late Mayor Bryan
Baptiste. The agriculture advisory committee was a very diverse group
representing almost all aspects of Kaua`i's agriculture community, and included
many of the knowledgeable voices in our agricultural community, including Mike
Furukawa, Mike Howell, Bobby Ferreira, Wayne Katayama, Jerry Ornellas, Roy
Oyama, Liz Ronaldson, Steve Smith, honorary member Rex Riggle, and advisor Bill
Spitz. The Kauai agriculture advisory committee spent a significant period of our
time on the issue of farm employee housing, and consistently and unanimously
expressed that farm employee housing was one of the most important things we
could do to help and encourage diversified agriculture on Kauai. We did make
written recommendations to Mayor Baptiste to this effect on two occasions. As a
small farm owner, it has been my experience that it is not economically feasible to
hire farm workers and pay them enough to afford off-site housing and reliable
transportation. If a farm employee can live on the farm, then they can function
without their own transportation and have no housing expense. They can live well
in an expensively...a win-win situation for the farmer, the employee, and the
community. It is my belief that farm worker housing is the cornerstone in
promoting diversified agriculture at this moment in Kaua`i's history. Hawaii State
law has recognized the need for farm worker housing. It also has classifications of
agriculture districts, as expressed in the statutory scheme, including Hawaii
Revised Statutes 205-2, 205 4.5 and 205-5. What we now need is an accepted
protocol for implementation at the county level. It is respectfully submitted that for
proposed draft bill 2318 is the key to establishing that accepted protocol. I have
read JoAnn Yukimura's testimony on bill 2318, and I wholeheartedly endorse
JoAnn's comments on the proposed changes to the bill. I would add the comment
that although I am in agreement that existing density on any farm be first utilized
21
before a use permit for farm worker housing can be granted. In the case of
condominium units, the density utilization should be viewed only as to the
condominium unit and not the entire lot or condominium project.
Mr. Furfaro: Can you summarize?
Mr. Grinpas: Yes. I'm almost done here. Just another 30
seconds I think I'll have it. If we view the density utilization of the entire lot, we
will potentially deprive otherwise qualified farmers from the benefits of farm
worker housing due to factors completely beyond their control. There are not
enough farmers on Kauai, and I submit that in order to safeguard our future, we
need to make it more feasible and more desirable to farm on Kauai. I respectfully
ask that you give your favorable consideration to the proposed bill. Thank you for
your consideration.
Mr. Furfaro: Are there any questions for Robert?
Mr. Kaneshiro: I have a question for Robert.
Mr. Furfaro: Go ahead Mr. Kaneshiro.
Mr. Kaneshiro: So Bob, you support the part where they say that
first use all the density that's prescribed through the zoning ordinance? We have
certain densities for parcels.
Mr. Grinpas: No, I'm not suggesting we change any density, but
in condominium property regYmes...
Mr. Kaneshiro: I understand the CPR process. But I'm talking
about a land with let's say 300 acres, you can put 5 or 6 densities. So you're saying
that you support that the densities be all used first before we provide
worker housing?
Mr. Grinpas: That's what the bill suggests, but I'm saying...
Mr. Kaneshiro: But you agreed with that.
Mr. Grinpas: I don't agree with it in the case of condominium
units, because the owner of the unit has no control over...
Mr. Kaneshiro: I'm not speaking about condominium units. I'm
speaking about a whole big land as a whole. You have a 300 acre piece of
property...
Mr. Grinpas: Then you got 5 houses.
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Mr. Kaneshiro: You got 5 houses. But before...
Mr. Grinpas: So if you don't have your 5 houses yet, then your
next house is not a farm worker housing unit; it's a house. And until you maxim the
actual density for your lot or your condominium unit, is what I'm suggesting, then
you don't get farm worker housing. I think that's what it reads. But it doesn't deal
with the condominium property regime unit issue, and that doesn't work, because if
I own a condominium property regime and my neighbors don't develop theirs, then I
have to wait for them to do something, and I've done...I've already developed my
unit out, but I can't get farm worker housing at no fault of my own.
Mr. Kaneshiro: Well, it also applies to a land that if a person
doesn't develop all the density for 5 housing, he can't get a farm worker housing.
That's the way it's written right now. The bill reads exactly like that. So for a
family, let's say your son and you have 200 acres, they can't afford to build a house
another 20 years from now, and yet you have 5 densities on it, that means you're
not allowed to put a farm worker housing, the way the bill reads currently.
Mr. Grinpas: Well, I think that's correct, and I would be happy to
see that dispensed with.
Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. It sounded like you were supporting that
concept first. It sounded like that. I understand the CPR, but I'm just talking
about the parcel itself.
Mr. Grinpas: I would be very happy to see it made available to
any legitimate farmer.
Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you for that
clarification.
Mr. Furfaro: Robert, that is very easily said, but I'm going to
point out what I said in the beginning. We can't be functioning in a vacuum. A
parcel of land currently has so much density, and they condominiumize it.
Mr. Grinpas: Yes.
Mr. Furfaro: They formed an association.
Mr. Grinpas: Correct.
Mr. Furfaro: That association has rules that may require the
person that ended up with a remnant piece who has no density to start some
dialogue with that association, because we could be dragged in to an issue, and I'm
23
going to keep this very short, we could be dragged in to an issue that's dealing with
the State CPR law.
Mr. Grinpas: My point is that...
Mr. Furfaro: I understood your point. I just want to say it's...
Mr. Grinpas: The declaration of condominium property regime
will assign whatever the density of that lot is to the separate units that are in the
project.. .
Mr. Furfaro: I understand.
Mr. Grinpas: And so if you've already maximized out your
density on your unit, you're done everything that's in your control and you should be
able to get the benefit on your unit.
Mr. Furfaro: I understand. On your unit, but not on your parcel,
and your parcel... I'm only explaining, the parcel is governed by that association.
The density of that parcel is governed by that association. You know, I just want to
make sure we understand that it's easier said than done. We're going to do a CZO
update very soon here too, which is another chance for us to visit this. But you
know, we cannot be authorizing density to parcels that came with no densities just
by simply passing the law. We still have to operate within that condominium
regime that was set up, and how they manage their density, and that is one of those
things where we have to be realistic that the buyer needed to be aware of that
parcel maybe not having any density. But this bill is not the only way to fix that,
that's what I'm saying.
Mr. Grinpas: I would say that if a unit has been designated no
density, then it has maximized its density. It didn't have any, so it's maximized its
density, so we should be qualified to get it.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Robert, but there are people in here that
have parcels that don't have any density, and I just want to make it clear that we
had somebody just testify here. But there's maybe another way to address that in
the comprehensive zoning ordinance. And I'm going to go to the next speaker, and
we can save the rest of this dialogue for the committee meeting.
Mr. Grinpas: Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much for your testimony. So our
next speaker. Malia? Okay, I'm going to go the next speaker, John Parziale.
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JOHN PARZIALE: My name is John Parziale, and I really appreciate
the opportunity to be able to speak on this bill.
Mr. Furfaro: Please speak into the mike, John, and could I ask
you to repeat your name one more time.
Mr. Parziale: John Parziale. Thank you. I'd just start off by
saying that it's not every day that I think like that decisions of this magnitude that
has such far reaching implications are before you, and especially with the case of
this farm worker housing bill. I think that the plight of farmers and agricultural
producers is pretty historical, and I think that it's generally sort of accepted that
being a farmer is a pretty hard road to hoe. And it seems that the right to live on
your farm and to have workers seasonally help you out on your farm and provide
some basic accommodations for them seems inherent, and it also appears that that's
written in the law of the State as well, recognized as a permitted use. The small
diversified farmers are forbid or forsaken this right. We really run the risk of
overburdening them to the point where their livelihoods become economically
impossible. And this is happening globally around the world right now, even with
farmers who can live on their land. Despite the dangers and the physical dangers of
farming, working with heavy machinery, working with large animals, chemicals, or
whatnot, the number one cause of death of farmers in the world is suicide, and that
happens when you become more...you become worth more to your family dead than
alive. This is the plate of farmers around the world in today's global economy. In
our Costco/Wal-Mart reality, it's sort of hard to maybe understand what is the value
of a strong local food system, but we may come to depend on that system to provide
us with a greater percentage of our food in the future. And I think with the world
economy the way it is teetering on the brink of collapse, lots of uncertainty in
sectors such as energy, transportation, health, the environment, you can see that
with these aspects and these things, this day of local food dependence is not so
farfetched, especially for a small island economy so far away and so isolated. But I
hope that you'll make these decisions regarding this bill and listen close to what the
farmers really want, and these decisions won't come from a place of fear of an
uncertain future, but rather from a place of strength and resolve and a place of
forward thinking that really that your children and your children's children will
look back to you and say, wow you guys made a really good choice. And because
really, you have a historic opportunity with this bill to make a direct impact on the
sustainability of the island and the people who live here. It's not a small matter.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much.
Mr. Parziale: I just need... And a couple of specifics on the bill
itself by sort of not allowing any open zoned farm land to be qualified for farm
worker housing, that it actually affects me directly. That pretty much puts my farm
out of the available to have farm worker housing, and it seems that to also require
you to fulfill your density before you can have farm worker housing that seems...you
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know, if you're really trying to help out a farmer, I mean, you know if you're a
starting farmer and you're working from the ground up, you might not have, you
know, the resources or the money to build a house right away, but maybe you can
build a little, you know, a small unit that you can live in temporarily until you get
your farm going and you know, why not make it a little bit easier for the farmers,
yeah. It's hard enough already. That's all I have. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: There's no questions. Thank you very much. Our
next speaker, Trevor Bloom.
TREVOR BLOOM: Aloha Councilmembers, and mahalo for all of your
service to this county. It does not go unnoticed. I wrote you all an email last night,
but I'd like to read it out loud with a few changes.
Mr. Furfaro: It was a very good one as well.
Mr. Bloom: Thank you. My name is Trevor Bloom. I'm 19
years old and live in Kapa`a. I graduated from Island School in 2008 and am
currently attending Lewis and Clark College as a biology major. I wish to express
my concern regarding the current farm worker housing situation, which is kind of a
neglected issue. I'm not completely against this current bill; I'm only in favor of
revisions, and I wish to shed light on the current situation. I have 6 classmates who
are living on an organic farm throughout the world, 3 of whom are living here on
Kauai. Some of them are employed by the farms, whereas others are participating
in a program called woofing with the British organization WWOOF. Members of
this organization can volunteer at participating farms across the world, including
farms here on Kauai. These people are future leaders in our communities, and
many of them are college students looking for aneye-opening summer experience.
They have great interest in education and in agriculture. In today's market of
processed food and agribusiness, it is becoming more and more important to
understand the roots of our food. My fellow students, among many other fulltime
workers, are living and working on these farms to educate themselves about the
farming industry. They are all happy to be living in so-called inadequate housing.
They may live in tents, and yet they all have access to fresh water and sanitary
bathroom and kitchen facilities; they are all very content with their housing. I'm
aware of several local farms that as a direct result of the current situation, are
asking their volunteers to leave, including 3 of my classmates from Lewis and Clark
College. All of these farms are employing people in a time where job opportunities
are slim, and this current situation may leave workers homeless. Furthermore, I
have a good friend who is a produce manager at one of the largest health food stores
on the island at Papaya's. He has brought to my attention that as a result of the
current housing situation and county pressure which are kicking these people that
are living in tents off of their land that a farm that produces 60 percent of the
produce that goes to Papaya's, around 60 percent, may close very soon. This is the
same farm that employs my friends from college. I have been at the farmers
26
markets and reading the paper. There's more and more demand for fresh local
produce. And not allowing workers to live in tents, you know, in conditions that
many of us had to live in after Iniki hinders such demand. It is becoming increasing
difficult for Kauai to be sustainable. The Hawaiian archipelago is the most isolated
land mass in the world. It is frightening to think that if for some reasons our
island's were cut off from food import, Kauai would have less than a week's worth
of food for our citizens and visitors. Also, the import of our food is reliant on
non-renewable resources. As a youth and a concerned citizen, this is worrisome.
Our island is fertile and perfect for the production of food; yet the price of land and
housing is high. We must support instead of restrict the local production of food.
Kauai needs farms, and Kauai needs farm workers. This is the bottom line.
Please protect this necessary and wonderful industry. I want to reiterate that I'm
not against this bill, yet I am in favor of reform. Thank you again for your
wonderful service to this island.
Mr. Furfaro: Trevor. Does anybody have any questions of
Trevor? Go right ahead Lani.
Ms. Kawahara: Just a simple, and I guess the next time I have
more information for the committee...ask for more information. How familiar are
you with the WWOOFing organization?
Mr. Bloom: I'm pretty familiar. Yeah, I've looked into it for
myself.
Ms. Kawahara: They have a... This is my understanding, I'm not
sure. Do they have a minimum requirement for the quality of housing for farmer
worker housing?
Mr. Bloom: No, not at all. A lot of people are...they just live
in tents.
Ms. Kawahara: So the WWOOFing organization doesn't require a
minimum amount of quality in the housing that's provided to the people that
participating in WWOOFing?
Mr. Bloom: I'm not particularly sure.
Ms. Kawahara: Okay.
Mr. Bloom: I'm sure they look into the farms themselves, but I
do know that, you know, people are living in tents.
Ms. Kawahara: Yes. I'm interested because I think it is a great
program, and I'm wondering if we...the county could align itself in that way, and
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also as an imperative, if they have a way of qualifying the farm worker housing in
that organization, how the county can meet those qualifications in order to have
access to all of those WWOOFers.
Mr. Bloom: That would be wonderful.
Ms. Kawahara: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Bloom: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Any other questions Mr. Bynum?
Mr. Bynum: Yes. So your friends that work on the farm, they
commit to a certain amount of work, or...
Mr. Bloom: Yeah, they have to work I think it's something
like 15 hours a week just to stay on the land, and then they get paid in excess of
that if they work more.
Mr. Bynum: And the pressure that these individuals are feeling
are coming from where?
Mr. Bloom: From the county. The county is coming...they've
had like raids on the land, and they're telling the people that are living in tents that
they are in inadequate housing that they have to leave, and these are people that
are taking care of this farm.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Ms. Kawahara: So that would...
Mr. Furfaro: Go ahead, you have the floor Lani.
Ms. Kawahara: So that agency isn't actually this council. It is the
county department, right, or a office. Thank you.
Mr. Bloom: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Trevor, thank you. Okay, we are going to go to
Karen Tilley, Rebecca Miller...
KAREN TILLEY: Hello, my name is Karen Tilley, and thank you for
allowing me to speak. This is a wonderful opportunity and I'm very nervous. But I
just wanted to say, no farmers, no food, and so we really, really need to have farm
workers. I had the opportunity to be a farm worker a very short time, and I've...in
28
Moloa`a, and I drove up from Princeville, and I loved being on the land and helping
wash the lettuce. This is a really, really beautiful experience, and I wish that
everyone could... It's just a wonderful experience to be on a farm and participate in
that wonderful work. And we have peak oil coming and looks like the long
emergency enlightening as to potential peak oil, big trouble coming around, we
want to be able to and not have to rely on a vehicle to get to work. So being able to
live on the land would be very, very critical, because it's hard to probably...you
know, have a donkey or a horse along the highways; it's going to be trouble at this
point. So I would like you to please listen to the farmers and support the farmers in
any way that you can. That's my wish. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: I made an error in the order here. I missed
Timoteo Heu Len, then Rebecca Miller. Are there any questions here for Karen
Tilley? Karen, thank you very much. So Timoteo?
TIMOTEO HEW LEN: Hello, my name is Timoteo Hew Len. I'm 14,
Hawaiian, and I'm born and raised on Kauai. I have interned on two farms and
worked at a farmers co-op. I graduated a permaculture workshop last year. In the
time it took me to achieve all this, I learned many things. One of the first things I
learned about farming was that it's hard work and it doesn't make a lot of money.
And with the raising cost of housing and gas, it's hard to own a farm and rent
elsewhere. To me, it seems almost impossible. Especially with all the vacation
rental owners trying to raise the cost of rent every other (inaudible). It might be a
little hard for the average farmer. Another thing you should take into consideration
is that with no farm there are no food, and the boat stops coming, farms are going to
be the only resource of food that we as an island will have. It seems to me that
farmer working housing will make it easier for farms today and the ones to come in
the future. This bill is one step closer to helping the farmers (inaudible).
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. Are there any questions of Timoteo?
Mr. Bynum: Is it Kimokeo?
Mr. Furfaro: Timo... Any questions of Timoteo? Thank you very
much for your testimony. The next speakers are Patti Valentine, followed by Nine
Anderson, followed by Melissa McFerrin. And may I ask if there's anyone that still
wants to speak, please come up and sign, because we're getting to the last...the end
of the list. (Inaudible from the audience.) You know, you're absolutely right. I'm
sorry. We have had 3 people that said they didn't want to testify, then reinstated
themselves, and I've gotten lost. So I'm going to ask if you would like to come up
first. Rebecca Miller. Rebecca, my apologies. Trying to keep track of the time, and
then of course the list.
REBECCA MILLER: Hi, my name is Rebecca Miller, and I've been living
on Kauai for 16 years now, and can you hear me? Is that better? Okay. Yeah,
29
thank you all for hearing my testimony today. This is very brief. It's...hope it's not
too redundant. I know that a number of amendments have been suggested for the
farm worker housing bill at this time. I would just like to ask that you choose
amendments and wording that would make this bill accessible to the small scale
farmer and to those new to farming so that we can encourage a broader base of our
locally grown food. And also I'd just like to mention that, you know, bills and laws
can be made, but you know, as far as protection from developers coming in and
using this bill for their own devices and not for farming, I think really the bulk of
the...how that happens or not is the enforcement of our laws that we already have.
And so if we choose to enforce like the general plan, you know, then that will really
help keep development where it's supposed to be, instead of having lots and lots of
development and no farms. So it's really in the enforcement. I think it makes the
difference there, and not so much in, you know, getting the laws so perfect. Because
I think the laws are good. They just need to be enforced. And thank you for your
time and thank you for your service to the community.
Mr. Furfaro: And my apologies for getting mixed up there.
Ms. Miller: That's no problem.
Mr. Furfaro: Let me see if there's any questions for you.
Any questions? Thank you again. So I will go to Patti, then Nina, then Melissa.
Thank you.
PATTI VALENTINE: Hello councilmembers. Thank you. I'm Patti
Valentine, and I'm a former farm worker in Moloa`a. My first experience of working
the land started with my dad when I was 6 years old, so that goes way back, as you
can imagine, but he taught me the value of organic farming back in the 60s, which
I've carried through the rest of my life. Thirty years later I finally had a dream
come true and was able to live and work on organic farms here on Kauai as a farm
worker and as an apprentice with Scott Pomeroy, and also my partner Michael.
There are many challenges of course living on the land, but there are incredible
benefits as well. Some of them is just the experience of healing the land by using
organic practices and seeing DDT levels go down after you do organic practices on
the land for several years. Healing myself was another big part of it. The
satisfaction of selling produce at the market and just seeing the happy smiles on
your customers' faces when they know that it was raised without chemicals and
GMO products added to it. Our garden became a laboratory. We were buying seeds
from every kind of food plant and medicine plant that we could get our hands on,
because we wanted to see what would grow here on Kauai. We also basically had
our own cooperative extension service because all of those seeds we planted, we
were sharing with other people who were interested in growing a lot of the plants
that we had available, and that was also another pleasure of just giving the plants
away. In the end, though, while our tarp house survived 9 windstorms one winter, I
didn't, and we left the land. I'd still be there now if there was farm worker housing
30
available. And I would really like to ask for your support for bill 2318, along with
the farmers' amendments that have been suggested. I'd also like to note that we
have collected 554 signatures of residents of Kauai in just two weeks simply for a
petition saying that they were in favor of farm worker housing on our island. So I
would like to have that noted as well, and thank you for all your support.
Mr. Furfaro: Would you have a copy of that for us?
Ms. Valentine: Sure.
Mr. Furfaro: We can make a copy of it and give you the original
back if you'd like.
Ms. Valentine: I'll give you a... I can provide you with a blank one.
I don't think you want all...or do you want all 554?
Mr. Furfaro: It would be nice if we get some.
Ms. Valentine: Oh yeah, sure. No problem.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. Someone from the staff will make a
copy for you. Are there any questions? Thank you Patti. Okay, we're going to go to
Nina Anderson, followed by Melissa, followed by Lalita. Excuse me before you
start. If anybody wants to speak, this is the last time here, please fill out a ticket
here if you can. Thank you. The floor is yours now.
NINA ANDERSON: Thank you. Gosh, this has just been a wonderful,
warm...probably one of the best council meetings I've ever, ever been to. There's
just been so much response. Oh my god I did. Sorry. Anyway, I hope everybody
can hear me, but this has been a wonderful council meeting. There's just the
warmth, the feeling, just you guys being here is just...it's really awesome. Okay,
I'm speaking for Marie Mauget who has had a farm here for the last...at Moloa`a,
actually it's a biodynamic farm, which is beyond organic. We got rid of all the Agent
Orange on our farm. It took 2 years, but when we -got rid of the Agent Orange,
there was worms, lots and lots of squirms, and we celebrated. Because you know,
there isn't any worms when there's Agent Orange, or any of those heavy chemicals.
But it was just one of the gateways to really working on a farm and, you know,
trying to keep the soil well as much as yourself too. Marie says, greetings council
chair and councilmembers. My name is Marie Mauget, and I have been farming in
Moloa`a for 10 years. Last year my farm made $50,000 with the help of many
precious farm workers. The current laws of Kauai county do not adequately
address the basic human needs of the small family farmers. A farming lifestyle has
many, many challenges. The current overall county policy is to be sustainable.
Food independence is crucial toward that goal. As public servants, could you do
everything within your power to encourage small family farms? And also the young
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ones that are interested and want to farm? The farm worker housing bill is one
small yet very significant step toward true sustainability. Mahalo for your time.
Marie Mauget...and Nina Anderson.
Mr. Furfaro: Nina, thank you very much. Let me see if there's
any questions. Are there any questions of the speaker or the testimony that was
given? Thank you very much. We are now at Lalita Kauai, Melissa, Bill
Robertson, Alice Parker.
LALITA KAUAI: Mahalo Chair and councilmembers. My name is
Lalita, and I have some experience with farming because I've been 4 years living in
my car and going around and working on different farms. I've been kicked off from
most of them because of the housing issue, and I know the way that the laws are
enforced, the current code of enforcement where you have to have the neighbors
who turn in your illegal housing, which is I think very sad form of enforcement.
And I have a student friend, Trevor, that followed me around these farms. You just
heard him speak. And he noticed the worm vermaculture in all this, and he made it
his thesis at the Island School, and he was accepted into one of the most prestigious
colleges in America and in the greening movement, and he became valedictorian,
and he's just speaking to you. I'm really proud, and I wanted to say that the myth
that goes around this island that people aren't interested in farming anymore is a
myth. And that there...that this is quite a nutritional issue for many of us who rely
on our organic farm food supply, and most of these farmers have welcomed us on
their farms to teach us and share details of their farming practices. They have
shared in full disclosure...this is a little tricky when your whole life is how you sell
those and you're farming, teaching somebody else to garden, how they have
regenerated their dead soils and are still in process of doing this, from toxic
industrial farming over years and years of hard work. These classes and sharings
have allowed the community the necessary knowledge to choose well where we buy
our food. These farmers are researching and growing crops that are hardy
sustainable foods, not just lettuce. Many people in the community no longer buy
most of their food at the supermarket, the grocery stores, where the food is at least
a week old and all industrially produced with nitrogen and decay and a water heavy
weight that equals dollars and cents on the scale, and look all foo-foo nice, as do the
industrial food bottom lines. These organic farmers have taken great time and
effort to learn and study and adopt farming practices that yield crops that will help
our own and our children's body stay well. That's our vaccine, guys. Grow healthy.
Make strong bone marrow and happy clear mental states. These farmers do not
have time or money to come downtown and fight for the right to live on their farms.
Mr. Furfaro: You're very close to your time being up, but I'll give
you a moment to summarize it.
Ms. Kauai: Thank you. So they're busy in the field, they're
happier living outside where they work, and they definitely do not want to live in
32
toxic building materials. These farmers should be venerated, supported, and held
up as models and instructors for our home gardens. These farmers should be
celebrated, honored, and respected for their sheer hard work and devotion to
growing the healthiest food they can for us. These people and their farm helpers
love the land with their heart and soul and deserve to live on their farms so they
can tend their plants. They know what is true prosperity. True prosperity is based
on agriculture, and our ability as an island to feed ourselves. I learned this from
Abdul Hussein, former Indian Ambassador of the U.S., and Sandra Gandhi's right-
hand man, and her feed for the children effort. Right now we have 3 days of food
supply on the island if anything goes wrong. I know where I can get my food if the
store runs out. These farmers have food and they have seeds. They have soil that
is richly regenerated, and knowledge of how to keep it like that with what is
available locally.
Mr. Furfaro: Is that the end of your testimony?
Ms. Kauai: Thank you so much.
Mr. Furfaro: Are there any questions? Thank you very much.
Our next speakers, we have Melissa, followed by Bill Robertson, Alice Parker, and
then we have Mi-Key Boudreaux.
MELISSA MCFERRIN: Mahalo. My name is Melissa McFerrin, and I'm
the executive administrator for the Kauai County Farm Bureau. I'm testifying on
behalf of that organization today. Over the past year or more, members of the
Kauai County Farm Bureau board have been working with various groups and
entities on this issue, and today we're testifying in support of the proposed worker
housing draft bill, with amendments.
Mr. Furfaro: Melissa, I just want to make sure we're all clear.
There have been no amendments introduced.
Ms. McFerrin: Yet, okay. So we are testifying in support.
Mr. Furfaro: Of potential amendments.
Ms. McFerrin: Of potential amendments, yes. Creating a vehicle
to provide for viable, legal, and safe farm worker housing is a demonstrated need to
help reduce labor cost and improve viability of the agriculture sector on Kauai.
Labor is a primary input cost of any agricultural operation, from the small scale
farm to the agribusiness operation, yet agriculture work is strenuous and
historically low paying, making it difficult not only for the farms themselves, but
also for the farm workers to sustain their own cost of living. An effective farm
worker housing bill would help provide relief to agriculture industry as a whole,
making it easier to attract and retain farm labor, protect against ag theft,
33
encourage new farmers, and help keep current farmers in agriculture by helping to
reduce input cost, and helping to support the economic viability and vitality of
agriculture on Kauai. And you've heard a lot to this effect today in a lot of
individual examples, so I won't go on too much on that direction, but we really have
an opportunity here to consider what it takes to create a farm friendly environment
on Kauai for agricultural businesses to operate of all sizes, from the small family
farm on up. So the barriers and the financial challenges that agriculture is facing
right now can't be underestimated, and we've been spending a lot of time and
energy in various groups, economic development groups around the island, about
what will make agricultural vital and vibrant on Kauai, and we see the worker
housing as an important part of that. So the State law under Act 205 permit
worker housing. It provides under State law that worker housing is important that
it's actually a State policy for the Hawaii Farm Bureau Federation to support ag
worker housing as part of the agricultural economy, and really, the goal of the bill is
to establish a county ordinance with clear criteria and a process in place which
doesn't require a separate use permit and can be effectively enforced. And to that
end, whatever we can do as a farm bureau to support that process, we look forward
to be a partner in that process and supporting that however we can. Note that
currently Maui has an ordinance in place that's been around for nearly a decade,
and it has been viewed favorably by the ag industry, and now it's time, and we hope
that with your support that we can create one here on Kauai.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. Let me ask a question. I want you to
go back and read something, because there seems to be this confusion. This bill will
allow people under certain conditions and reviewed in some proposed amendments
the ability to apply for a use permit to get additional density.
Ms. McFerrin: That is correct.
Mr. Furfaro: You just read something that said, without
requiring.. .
Ms. McFerrin: Excuse me. Currently there...and this was pointed
out in the planning commission's assessment that there are ways which you could
get worker housing, but it isn't...it's very onerous right now to do so, and a lot of the
farmers, they testified this today, but you know, they can have a permit out
there...use permit application out there for a few years. So the goal of this...
Mr. Furfaro: Okay, you've answered...
Ms. McFerrin: That was your answer to your question.
Mr. Furfaro: That was the answer to my question. I want to
make sure we all understand, this bill is about giving additional density.
34
Ms. McFerrin: Exactly.
Mr. Furfaro: To get additional density, you will have to come up
with a plan and this criteria, you might have to mention 3 or 4 of them. But you do
have to apply for a use permit...
Ms. McFerrin: Correct.
Mr. Furfaro: ...in this bill. I just want to make sure, for the
audience, we understand that.
Ms. McFerrin: And to reinforce that the farm bureau recognizes
that the effective enforcement to the bill is critical in order to prevent abuse and
that permitting density beyond density for ag lands is a privilege that needs to be
carefully managed.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay, and thus I mentioned earlier that for those
people that may have units that do not have density, there may be another way to
approach this through the CZO. So I just want to make it very clear that you didn't
read something that said they wouldn't need a use permit.
Ms. McFerrin: Yes, thank you for that clarification. There was
one proposed amendment. May I bring it up, because I'm finished.
Mr. Furfaro: No you may not. I'll tell you why-because we have
no amendments on the table here. We've talked only about conceptual
amendments, and when we work in... So your group may have had a proposed
amendment, but I would hope that you would hold back for the 15th.
Ms. McFerrin: Until next week. Excellent. Okay thank you
very much.
Mr. Furfaro: I appreciate you understanding that. Thank you.
Any more questions? Thank you very much. Can we have copies of your testimony?
Ms. McFerrin: Yes.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay thank you. I have Bill Robertson, Alice
Parker, and then Mi-Key...I believe it's Bordeaux, like the wine? Boudreaux.
Okay, thank you.
BILL ROBERTSON: Good afternoon. I have a testimony for John
Wooten also... Can I read that after mine?
35
Mr. Furfaro: I'm going to let you come back to do John Wooten,
because I made a statement about trying to expedite the timing. So I'll let you come
back to speak for John Wooten.
Mr. Robertson: Alright. So my name Bill Robertson, and I'm not a
farmer myself, but I'm a businessman and investor. And three and a half years ago
I purchased 36 acres in Moloa`a-two farms, one's a certified organic farm. We're in
our second year of certification. The other is 18 acres of basically rambutans and
longans. I am totally in support of allowing farm worker housing on working farms
in Kauai. I've been impacted several different ways by not having farm worker
housing to date. One of them is no one is watching my farm at night. I cannot keep
equipment, that's tractors, tools on my farm safely without the fear of theft. I have
to trailer my tractors and heavy equipment from my home 25 minutes away. I
estimate this costs me about $6,000 a year in fuel, trailer time, and truck expense.
With no human presence on the farms at night, I have suffered from theft of my
crops. I've reported this to the police several times. There's also been vandalism,
which I've reported several times. Water leaks go undiscovered for several days,
costing hundreds of dollars. When I purchased the farm, I inherited 3 farm workers
living on the farm, which were being paid $10 an hour. When they were forced to
move off the farm, they had to pay rent of about $800 each. In order to pay the rent,
they've had jobs with landscapers that paid them between 15 to $20 an hour. I
cannot afford to pay my workers that amount of the wage and then expect them to,
you know, go out and buy housing. When I first bought the farm, I spent $5,000 on
plans to draw up to build several different buildings on my farms: greenhouse,
shade houses, solar shed, equipment for my...or a shed for my equipment. When I
handed these to the planning department, they immediately returned them to me.
They told me that there is a moratorium on building anything out in Moloa`a, and
that was 3 years ago. Along this line, I made a sizable investment, you know, huge
investment into the farm, and I really didn't expect to get a monetary return on that
investment. In fact, some of my, you know, partners in California, they think I'm
completely crazy at investing in farms and having the type of problems that I've
been dealing with. I probably spend 90 percent of my time dealing with problems
on my farm, and 10 percent of my time earning a living from my investments in
California. And I would just be happy to promote farming for all the reasons that
have been pre...you know, presented this afternoon, and to move this island into,
you know, a real dynamic place to grow food. Let's see. In farm worker housing
bill, it states that there are certain number...level of incomes. With my organic
farm, basically the trees have been...most of the trees have been in the ground for 6
years and I'm still not earning income on it.
Mr. Furfaro: Excuse me Bill. Your 3 minutes has come up, but if
you'd like to summarize?
Mr. Robertson: Okay. Basically, small farmers cannot afford to
have their farms if they cannot live on them and protect them. Housing is too
36
expensive on Kauai. If a farmer had to pay rent elsewhere, commute to his farm,
and pay labor as a full wage without housing, the farms will close down and Kauai
will not have a beautiful produce it is now accustomed to provide. Kauai is in
danger of losing their small farmers. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. I will call you back for the testimony
you have for Mr. Wooten.
Mr. Robertson: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Are there any questions? Yes, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: You said there were workers that were living on
the land that were forced to leave?
Mr. Robertson: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: How did that occur?
Mr. Robertson: Well, illegal housing. You know, they...it was old...
They had been there for years and years, and it was just an old building that, you
know, that was used for farm worker housing, and it wasn't recognized anymore as
legal housing.
Mr. Bynum: So who came and said you got to go?
Mr. Robertson: The county planning. They did...probably I think it
was about 3 years ago they did a raid, you know, and all the farmers... Some of the
raids were unannounced. Without permission they just went on the land and
took pictures.
Mr. Furfaro: If they're announced, I don't think they were raids.
Mr. Robertson: Right. You're right.
Mr. Bynum: So it was people from the planning department?
Mr. Robertson: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: And you said something about a moratorium on
building anything in Moloa`a?
Mr. Robertson: Yes. I think it happened about 3 years ago.
Because of... You know, it's a CPR out there. Whenever you have a violation with a
37
zoning issue, they make it a moratorium that nothing could be built until
certain...all the violations are cleared.
Mr. Bynum: So is that specific to your property?
Mr. Robertson: No, it's specific to, you know, probably 40 owners in
Moloa`a, about 500 acres of land.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay Mr. Bynum, I'm going to ask that if there's
more to that particular piece dealing with violations that are on today's public
hearing agenda, I think we understand what you're pointed out as far as some
enforcement going on regarding the current codes, and that's what we're trying to
fix here.
Mr. Robertson: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Anybody else have any questions? I had Alice
Parker next. I have some written testimony as she went out the door, with a
contact number, basically suggesting that on the economic parts, perhaps some
levels of figures can be pre-determined based on the size. I'll this to the staff to turn
in. And so we'll go to Mi-Key.
MI-KEY BOUDREAUX: Hi. Good afternoon Council Chair and
councilmembers. I'm Mi-Key Boudreaux from Kalaheo, and I've been a resident
here since 1986. And I'm tied to this because I've been a consumer for a long time of
these organic foods that I've been buying at the farmers market for years and years
and years, and the thought of them not being available because of something like
this is...has just... It's like, no this is the one thing that I thought we had over
some of the other islands, because I lived on Maui for a while and they didn't have
as much as we had when I was there, and I was like really proud of our farmers in
that way. So I want to lend my support to the farm workers housing bill, and I
appreciate the dedication of the farmers to clean and nutritious food free of
pesticides and GMOs. Much of that food is also available at our high-end
restaurants, you know. I mean I think the chefs there really appreciate it. And I
notice that when people are there, they come back because the food is fresh and
delicious. And I believe as a community...well, there's one other thing I wanted to
say about the depleted soil as Scott was talking about, and many other people.
There's been studies done that the food that we have available to us now mostly
is...only has 20 percent of the nutrition that was available in the 50s from that
same food, and that's startling, and that's something that we really need to come to
grips with. It's not something that we can just like kind of pretend it's not
happening. That's a huge shift in nutrition. You normally wonder why people
aren't healthy. Sorry. So I really think as a community we need to support
sustainable practices, and by supporting and encouraging the production of our food
here, we're also reducing our overall carbon footprint, because if we're producing
38
here and it's not coming across the ocean, that's also something to consider, and
we're really here at a crossroads, and I really hope the council will have a wide and
encompassing vision and take into account the needs of these farmers. Thank you
for this opportunity.
Mr. Furfaro: Mi-Key, thank you very much, at pointing out the
relationship between, you know, the various farmers markets that we have. They
are certainly well supported with the efforts of this council and making that
connection to our farm activities is much appreciated, especially pointing out to our
relationship to some of our fine restaurants and so forth where they depend on fresh
sage and rosemary and mint and so forth.
Ms. Boudreaux: Well, and all the greens...all the lett...all the salad.
Mr. Furfaro: And the restaurant head lettuce, and Manoa
lettuce, and so forth...all those things, Mi-Key. Thank you for pointing that
connection out between our existing industries. Let me see if there's any questions
for you. And for someone who speaks French, I'm very sorry that I mispronounced
your name, Boudreaux. [French apology inaudible]
Ms. Boudreaux: I think I probably wrote it sloppily. It's a common
mistake.
Mr. Furfaro: I apologize for mispronouncing your name.
Ms. Boudreaux: Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Now this is our last speaker, as I've made those
requests, and that is Mr. Robertson. You're going to come back up and I'm going to
give you time for speaking on behalf of Mr. Wooten. And I do want to point out, this
is a decision of the chairman to let you speak again. This is not our normal practice
to have people submit names to speak for others. So...but I've done it at one
exception with [former] Councilwoman Yukimura's today, because she co-introduced
the bill with me. So go right ahead.
Mr. Robertson: Thank you very much. This is from John Wooten
with Wooten's Produce of Kauai. They grow a tremendous amount of food for our
markets on the east and north shores of Kauai. They've been farming since 1986. I
support bill number 2293 which amends the CZO to allow farm worker housing
under strict protections against abuse. Farmers need farm worker housing if
agriculture is to be successful on Kauai. I support the amendments proposed by
the drafting group of farmers and farm worker housing supporters because the
suggested changes further tightened the safeguards against abuse and wrongful use
of such housing and make the bill more workable. Please pass bill number 2293
with the suggested amendments from the drafting crew. It has been proposed that
39
the dollar amounts either more or less be added to the criteria for allowing farm
worker housing in effort to assure that only legitimate farms are allowed this
benefit. The motive is certainly worth...worthy; however the fairness of this dollar
amount proposed criteria is severely flawed. Some of those flaws are: this would
favor wealthy hobby farmers with vast monetary resources to cover the dollar
minimums. Large corporate farms will easily meet the dollar amounts. Small
family farms and small diversified farms owned by working farmers will be at an
unfair disadvantage, the very farmers most in need of the assistance this bill will
provide. Forestry crops and orchards may require decades to produce income. Are
these crops singled out for exclusion or is an exception for these and other long term
crops to be made? Where would the exceptions stop? Many farmers grow crops to
supply the needs of the community even though a higher value crop can be grown.
An example could be lettuce as opposed to orchids. Should all small lettuce farms
be converted to orchid farms in order to meet the dollar minimums? Dollar
amounts may become obsolete due to inflation. These are only a few of many
examples and are not intended to deride or criticize wealthy hobby farms, large
corporate farms, or orchid growers, all of whom are valued and important sectors of
the agricultural community. The point I wish to make is that these dollar
minimums are unfair and tend to penalize those farmers most in need of this bill to
allow farm worker housing. Truly yours, John W. Wooten.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you. Is there any question for
Mr. Robertson on the testimony from Mr. Wooten? May we get a copy, of course.
Thank you. Okay. We're going to come back in a few minutes as we change the
tape, but we'll have no more public testimony. So we're on a short recess for a
tape change.
There being no objections, the Chair called a recess at 4:20 p.m. The hearing
reconvened at 4:25 p.m. and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Furfaro: I'm going to call the...to the end for the testimony
today. Before I go any further, I'm going to kind of call this back to order with the
councilmembers, and I have a few statements about housekeeping items that relate
to this bill on the 15th. Is there any other councilmember that might want to make
a general comment? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Just briefly. I just wanted to thank everybody for
coming today. I learned a lot, and I'm going to be working hard to learn a lot more.
I really appreciated the comments earlier about we won't come up with a perfect
answer, and that we need to be able to take some risks to be supportive of farmers.
You know, the way agricultural land has been, in my opinion, mishandled, some of
the problems are related to CPRs and residential development occurring on ag land
pretending to be farms, and it be a real shame if farmers were hurt by a history of
us not providing the proper stewardship of agricultural land. So I just want to
thank everybody for coming today and sharing their mana`o.
40
Mr. Bynum: Thank you Mr. Bynum. Lani, did you want to say
anything?
Ms. Kawahara: I wanted to thank everybody for coming too. I
know how difficult it is to get away from your farms and how much work you put
into them. So the effort that you've taken to be here to testify, and all the people
that weren't able to be here to testify, I've gotten your emails, and very
appreciative. I'm going to be going over all of those. But the recognition really
deserves to be given to the farmers that have been able to make it here and to
testify, and everybody else that had enough interest to put it in writing if they could
not. So thank you very much for making that effort.
Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Kawakami?
Mr. Kawakami: Thank you Mr. Chair. I just want to thank
everybody for coming out and testifying today. My mother was a farmer, and her
mother did everything she could so that she didn't have to farm, and my mother did
everything she could so I wouldn't have to farm. And I think where we're at right
now is to try and support the farmers, not only of today, but to rejuvenate the
interest and to make it easier for the next generation also, so that when they're
ready to farm, they have all the tools necessary. So thank you for coming out and
testifying. I was really moved by a few of your testimony, and thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Kaneshiro, did you want to say anything?
Mr. Kaneshiro: Real short. I know this is a public hearing, and I
thank you Chair for giving me the opportunity to speak, and also allowing the
participants to be able to speak. Basically, I look at it this way. If housing wasn't
available, we would really, the plantation, the old cane plantations, any of the
pineapple plantations, would have never happened in the State of Hawaii. So
that's my outlook of this. That's my take, how important housing is to provide for
that open space and for agriculture to continue.
Mr. Furfaro: Did you want to say anything Mr. Chang?
Mr. Chang: I too wanted to thank everybody for coming on over.
It was a extremely enlightening, and I think we got a plan that I'm going to meet
some of you on Tuesday morning. I'm looking forward to cruising around and
checking out your farms and learning. So looking forward to getting my hands dirty
and checking out, but thank you for everybody for come on out sincerely for you
guys taking the time. Obviously this was a big, big issue for everyone at hearts.
You could see basically standing room only. So again, thank you to everyone and I
look forward to spending some time with everybody. Thank you.
41
Mr. Furfaro: They got plenty of nut grass.
Mr. Chang: Ho`ohana. I'm going to have to do some ho`ohana,
as somebody said. Okay, we'll do that. We'll do that, Mr. Oyama, ho`ohana, okay.
Council Chair Asing: Yes, I just also would like to take this opportunity
to thank all of you for coming out. I think there were many issues that were
brought out, and I think the bottom line is we have a lot of work to do to try to help
you in your farming endeavors. So thank you again for coming out and we'll do our
part in trying to formulate a plan and get something that is workable to you.
Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Chair. I want to say that this is
rather unusual during a public hearing that we would have comments from the
councilmembers, but it's a very important item. I think what the Chair has said
about we have lots of work to do, I just want to reassure you through some of the
things that we have going on here within the county. We have an update to the
comprehensive zoning ordinance on the horizon. We launched a study for Kilauea
water activities and sources, which we might broaden to the whole Koolau district.
We have funded an important ag lands study, and you know, as I mentioned earlier,
there are other parts to successful farming, from marketing to pricing to even
changing buying habits here on the island. But I can assure you, through economic
development, there is work happening there. I don't know if this bill can be
everything to everyone that came today, but as I mentioned, a possible issue is
looking at an update to the comprehensive zoning ordinance which might actually
address some of those parcels that do not have any density or they're remnants of
an old CPR. I knew it took people, you know, a lot of sincere testimony in saying,
you know I'm actually living there illegally. But we want to get this through its
first intention, and what everybody has to remember is we're actually giving density
in this version, and so it's going to take a lot of work. I'm asking my colleagues on
the 15th to...after they call their committees together, to let me have the time early
in the morning, because I know you farmers, you're busy with your schedule, that
will be the working committee. And certainly from the public input we took today,
it was very...very good for our upcoming committee meeting. The other thing I
wanted to point out to you and I didn't want it to not go unsaid today, when we have
an item on the agenda that's dealing with workforce housing and we drift to talk
about citations, as was it Mr. Robertson had pointed out, so forth, the basic rules
are you can give testimony as you see it connected. The basic rules is we cannot
respond to you on that item because that was not posted on the agenda. And I want
to make sure I made that distinction. So the persons that sit in that chair often
have an opportunity to broaden the testimony. We can be good listeners, but in fact
we cannot now start to discuss citations, because it was not specifically on the
agenda. And the meeting is called back to order, and I cannot suspend the rules
again, so we hope to see you on the 15th, and if I could have my colleagues'
42
willingness to suspend their committees to let us go first, I would appreciate that.
Thank you Mr. Chair.
Council Chair Asing: Thank you. With that, you want to adjourn the
meeting?
Mr. Furfaro: This pubic hearing is adjourned.
There being no further testimony on this matter, the public hearing
adjourned at 4:32 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
PETER A. NAKAMURA
County Clerk
/ao
43
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Attachment 1
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