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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-07-2009 PH Bill 2322 PUBLIC HEARING OCTOBER '7, 2009 A public hearing of the Gauncil of the County of Kauai was called to order by Jay Furfara, Chair, Planning Committee, an Wednesday, October '7, 2009, apt 1:33 p.m. at the Council Chambers, Historic County Building, 4390 Rice Street, Lihu`e, Kauai, and the presence of the fallowing was Hated: Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Dickie Chang Honorable Jay Furfara Honorable Daryl W. Kaneshiro Honorable Lani T. Kawahara Honorable- Derek S. K. Kawakami Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing, Council Chair The Clerk read the notice of the public hearing an the fallowing: BILL NO. 2322 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 198'7, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE COMFREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE {ADU Building Permit deadline extension for Han-residentially zoned Land}, which was passed an first reading and ordered to print by the Council of the Gaunty of Kauai on September 9, 2009, and published in The Garden Island newspaper an September 23, 2009. The following communications were received for the record: 1. Phil Fudge, dated October 2, 2009 2. Mike Dyer, dated October 7, 2009 3. Justin Chew email, dated October 2009 4. Nanette Chang Dettloff email, dated October 6, 2009 5. Jahn and Francine Edson, dated September 15, 2009 6. Danie McReynolds email, dated September 9, 2009 7. Isani Alahan email, dated October 5, 2009 8. Joshua Hew email, dated October 6, 2009 9. John and Shannon Towey, dated October 7, 2009 10. Chris Hayden, dated October 7, 2009 The hearing proceeded as follows: Mr. Furfara: Thank you Mr. Clerk. So a reminder on this particular piece, this bill i~ to extend these that had facility use permits, and the 1 facility use permits were filed when you made your intent that you were going to pursue the passibility of building your additional dwelling unit as the ordinance came to a sunset. This also is true of anyone who may have had a building permit application in at the time, but it is only addressing those items. Mr. Clerk, do we have people who have signed up for speaking? PETER NA~;AMURA, County Clerk: Yes, we have registered speakers, Mr. Chair. Mr. Furfaro: Can I ask you to read the registered speakers list? JESSE FUI~USHII4ZA: Good afternoon Councilmembers. Before I start, I'd like to submit to you testimony from Justin Chew and family, Nanette Chang Dettloff, John... Francine Edson, Danie Reynolds, Sonny Alahan, and Joshua Kew for the record. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you very much. Mr. Fukushima: First of all I'd like to say thank you very much for this c~ppc~rtunity for you recognizing the difficulty of the economic times that many of us, in fact all of us, are faced with today, and it is because of your initiative of ordinance 2322 shows your compassion, and many of us we are in support of the ordinance 2322, which is to extend the building permit deadline for ADUs and those people with the clearance forms. I'm pretty sure there will be other people testifying personally how this bill will positively affect them, and just on a sidetrack note, theoretically when you look at what's out there, there is at least,.. I believe there is 375 applicants that is in this pool, so the point I'm trying to make here is that not only do we ask and support this bill, but in turn, I think these 375 individuals will be contributing back to the county, and haw do we contribute back, and that will be done in the realm of real property taxes. And if you average out anywheres from 1200 to 1500 dollars per tax..,real property tax per dwelling per year, this county in the long run stands to receive anywheres between 450 to possibly 5f0 somewhat thousand dollars per annum, Thank you for your time, and I'm open to any questions. Mr. Furfaro: Before I ask of any questions, Mr. Fukushima, I want to thank you for recognizing this council who initiated this extension and sent it down to the planning commission. It also should be noted that it did get the full support of the planning commission. Mr. Fukushima: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: Are there any questions of Mr. Fukushima? If not, thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. Clerk, next speaker please. 2 SHANNON TOWEY: Goof afternoon Council. Thank you for having me. I'm here as myself, Shannon Towey, and my husband John F. Towey. We both are working several jobs, at least three a piece, to try to make it so...we weren't able to make it to the planning commission (inaudible), but I'm here on our behalf. I would also like to add, I did have a copy made to be spread before all of you, so you do have it, so I'll keep it brief. One thing I didn't add I would like to add is that when we testified before, many local families, as we are a local family from the islands, as well as Kauai, for 30 years and we have three sons to Kapa`a High and one serving in the army right now in Kuwait, is that many, many local families came to us and thanked us because they were so shy-they didn't want to come forward and say what they felt was very important to be said. I also want to thank you like (inaudible) that you have even brought this issue up on behalf of the citizens. So just to go through our vain points. We are a local family who own agriculturally zoned land here on Kauai. We have met all of the above specifications as we all know you have written very clearly. We also did the infrastructure-the septic system, the paved road, the water meter that's functioning, etc. So we are very much in favor of you to vote to extend this. We did put in a building permit but cannot afford to pick it back up and get it out, get the application... get the architect's stamp, let alone build the way that we had foreseen in the past. So the bullets are: our income and work situations have changed drastically, we make much less, and pray for income to continue. The value of our property has weakened substantially. Keeping our home and our ADU acceptance viable is extremely important for our family and the community as a whole, as we live on land that was divided and built upon originally in the 1950s to house pineapple workers. The lot is quite small; it's about a third of an acre or less, and not able to sustain agricultural income. It certainly can include agricultural uses that benefits people, fruits and flowers, etc., which we are doing, but in a small amount because it's a small piece. And hopefully an ADU to assist in long term rental needs for our fellow citizens before, hopefully, our sons will hopefully...we won't have a brain loss and they'll gain higher education and stay in the islands...if not on Kauai, that's our dream. This is our first and only home land, and as a local family, we have no intention of going anywhere in our lifetime, let alone ever. We do, as I mentioned, have three sons all born and raised here, and a grandson too now as of August. Economically at this time it is too much to ask for people, our family included, we believe, to obtain the costs necessary to fulfill the building permitting process and the building of the ADU. We both, my husband and I, are working several jobs to make ends meet. Two sons as I mentioned in high school at Kapa`a high, and a son serving our country in the army. We are really struggling to make ends meet right now, and we're working on a loan rate modification processes, etc. as many families are. We don't want to go into bankruptcy. We want to see things...we just can't say enough that we appreciate your consideration of this and how important and precious it would be to have an extra five years to be able to hopefully hold on to 3 things and go forward. Our sincere intention would be to build something smaller than we initially thought,.. Mr. Furfaro; Excuse me. That was three minutes, 1~~1r. Clerk? I can extend you another three minutes if you'd like. Ms. Towey; That's fine. I'm ready far questions. I was just going to say long term rental is where we would like to help in the meantime in our community, and feel that that would be functional. Open for questions. Mr. Furfaro: Just to clarify a couple items. There will be no voting today. This triggers a process that actually opens public testimony here at the council, just like it did when we sent the bill down to the planning commission. Ms. Towey: We were here. I understand. Mr. Furfaro: Sa there'll be no voting today. Are there any questions of the testimony? Mr. Bynum: Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Furfaro; ~'es, thank you. Thank you very much. Ms. Towey: Thank you very much for your time. Mr. Furfaro: Next speaker please. JOSEPH TATE'~''AMA; Honorable Chair Asing, Honorable Councilmembers, I'm Joe Tateyama from Kapa`a. First of all I want to thank you all for considering and taking the initiative to get this piece of legislation into effect. I know it's a long process. I want to thank Jesse also for helping to initiate this movement. I've been trying to build an ADU on my ag property for 19 years. First time I applied, water department all of a sudden decided no more ADUs where I live because the waterline had to be improved; it wasn't large enough to support additional ADUs, so I couldn't build one. Next time I tried to apply, I found out a neighbor of mine built an ADU, and I asked him how he did it, and he said he put in his own well. Sa I applied again saying I'd put in my own well; they told me they're in the process of changing their procedure and their policy, so I was denied putting in my own well, so I couldn't build an ADU again. So now this extension at least allows me the time for them to put in that well, and I'm told by the water department that it'll be in about two years or so...funds are being available. Now that funds being available concerns me, sa I'd like to request if you could consider c?xtending this for l~ years so I won't have to came back in five years if the water department hasn't replaced the line, and ask you to extend it another five years. If you would, I would really appreciate that, and I think it gives everybody the 4 flexibility to build it in their own time when the time and situation permits. Thank you. Mr. Furfaro: Are there any questions of inaudible. Thank you very much sir. Next speaker please. CHRIS HAYDEN: Aloha Councilmembers, and to the public watching and listening. My name is Christopher Hayden, and I came to this island of Kauai in 1970. I brought my beautiful wife Diana and my three beautiful children to this garden island of Kauai. In 1970 I started my business, which is carpet sales and installation, and we...later we added carpet cleaning, and now we're working with solar hot water heaters and photovoltaic... solar photovoltaic. Back in the mid-80s we purchased an agricultural lot in an agricultural subdivision in Wailua Homesteads, three acres, and we saw the opportunity of sharing this with our family and our children and having a legacy, so did a CPR and gave it to our oldest son so he'd have his own land and own deed and by-and-by build a house. So after the hurricane we helped him build his house, and on our land we didn't do anything yet. On our portion of it we didn't do anything because we felt well, when the time is ready and when we choose to do it, we'll do it. So now is a different time and circumstance. If this ADU is accepted...this extension of time is accepted, my family will be able to continue with our goals and our dreams to build a house for perhaps one of my other children and my grand children. The families that are in the same situation, families that own land here and would choose to build as soon as they can for themselves and for their families, I think the opportunity to have the extension of time would be a wonderful gift. So wouldn't it be nice if this could happen, and I respectfully appreciate your listening to our concerns and supporting us. Thank you very much. Mr. Furfaro: Do you have any questions of Chris? Chris, thank you very much for your testimony. Next speaker Mr. Clerk. SCOTT OAKLEY: Aloha Councilmembers. My name is Scott Oakley. Bill number 2173 was designed to control the unintended growth on lands not primarily intended for residential use. Part of that was a requirement of submitting ADU facilities clearance forms, and they had to have been completed by June 15 of 2007. Therefore, it seems to me that the intent of the bill has been met. Nobody can get a building permit unless they submitted that ADU facilities clearance form by 6/15/07, which was the deadline. No one else is allowed to submit a form thereafter. So what difference does it matter when the eligible people that met that deadline...what difference does it make when we apply for a building permit, whether it be this December 15, which we're trying to extend by five years, but why not just delete that altogether, because make it 10 years or 15 years, but the idea is that the requirement...the ADU facilities clearance forms are no longer being accepted anyway, so the people that made that deadline are the only people that qualify to build anyway, and no new ones are being accepted. 5 I talked to Ann 41a, the owner of Island Pacific Mortgage across the street, she said construction loans are very difficult to obtain nowadays. Personally, I submitted a plan on June Z7 of 2006. The department of water gave me and my engineer wrong information on the location of the waterline that ended up costing me two years and over $6,00O...after tax money dollars. And I would like to get that refunded. 4f course that they denied the responsibility, but all this led to now, which is I do not any longer qualify for a construction loan like I did two years ago. So I would appreciate if you would at least extend the deadline by five years, if not indefinitely. Thank you. Mr. Furfaro. Scott, could you hold on just a second please. Before we do, I want to get some history on this bill for everyone. First of all, these additional units and density was never designed to be in the agricultural districts, number one. During a very difficult housing period, Councilman Tehada introduced this bill that would allow what occurred in residential districts to actually occur in and an agricultural property. That bill was fora 5-year period, initially...sorry, it was fora 10-year period. At same future point, and I may not have all the dates or the chronology correct, that bill was extended far an additional IO years to give that density. Recently in 2007 when that expiration date was to came up before the council, there was a move on the council to let that be enforced. In other words, it sunsets, no additional ADTJs. We heard from the public about the need to have clear advice as far as pursuing permits, etc. So we introduced a extension that allowed people to declare that they were in fact going to build their additional dwelling unit for the purpose of family use or expanding the ability to move the main family into the larger home ar the existing Name and build something so that tutu and tutu kane could stay close to the family. That is what triggered the facility use form, to declare anyway. Now parallel to that, a bill was running on vacation rentals and it was important for this county to say, the general plan requires us to regulate vacation rentals, and there was a concern that these ADUs would turn into additional value if they could in fact be used for vacation rentals. So this facility use permit paralleled this bill, and I know this because I introduced both bills, so that if people were true to their intent of filing their facilities claim, it was to be for the purpose of housing and density within their own families andlor long term rental, not vacation rental. Therefore, the economic bubble burst, and what we also discovered is in that timeframe for those that declared that intent, financing was not available in this market right now, and hopefully this market will turn around in the next couple of years. Therefore, we understood that hurdle and we came in with this 5-year extension based on the difficulties that you're summarizing for us, Scott, and I thank you for that, But I wanted to make sure that people understood the chronology of time here and what was a modification of what was allowed to now getting people to understand, we needed to have those that wanted use for home use, family use, we needed to have them declare that intent through filing a i'acility permit. I hope that helps. And Mr. Bynum, you had a question? Mr.I3ynum. Actually, I was going to thank Mr. Oakley for 4~tlining fc~r any membexs cif the general public that might be watching this that 6 this ADU extension is for people who had already met those criteria. It is not a bill to allow new ADUs on agricultural land, but only for those people who had already demonstrated their intent, and I wanted to recognize the council that was here just before I was elected who passed kind of the sunsetting, which was the recommendation from the planning department on the four previous extensions, right? And so anyone who's interested can read the excellent planning department report on this bill that outlines the history of this, but I wanted to thank you for outlining for anybody who might be watching on TV, this is not to create new ADUs on ag land, but only to allow a continuation of those people who had already declared that intent. Thank you. Mr. Furfaro: Are there any more questions for Scott? Thank you Scott. Next speaker please. JENISE RUSBY: Good afternoon. I just wanted to say real quickly... Mr. Furfaro: You need to introduce yourself. Ms. Rusby: Oh, I'm sorry. Jenise Rusby. Real quick, I just wanted to state that I too am in agreeance(sic) with the extension of the deadline for the building permit, and I wanted to say thank you to (Is it Jay?) for the quick synopsis, because that's exactly the category that we're in and the situation we're in. My brother and I have ag property and we are just in the beginning stages of our organic farming, and in order to go through the process and do our long term plan, my brother and I both plan on building homes for ourselves in order to run the farm, and so we're in a situation where if we were forces to start by December 15, that would really put us in a financial bind. So by the extension, that would give us the opportunity to plan much more carefully financially and continue what it is we plan on doing. So I just wanted to mention that we are I total agreement with what you are trying to propose here. Mr. Furfaro: Let me see if there's any question? Are there any questions? Thank you very much for testifying. Next speaker please. MIKE DYER: For the record, my name is Mike Dyer. Council Chairman, Members, thank you for giving us the opportunity to discuss this extension of the ADU deadline. The property that my wife and I own is a one-acre urban open zoned property, so it's a little different than the situation with the ag properties, although most of the ag properties are ADU properties because they have open zoned land on them, otherwise they'd get another house and a guesthouse. The piece that we own is in Kilauea and I recall vaguely that, you know, when the ADU became available for this property and we didn't...we weren't too concerned about it at the time, we started to get a little concerned about it, because I think the property tax office became aware that this had become a ADU unit, so the taxes started going up significantly. But we didn't really start paying attention until that first deadline that Councilman Furfaro was just talking about 7 came and started approaching, and then we realized we'd been paying all this money and it was going to...we were going to lose the right to build this extra house. So then we hurried out...you know, this is when the curse of the ADU set in. You have a deadline and so you run out and you have to get a couple of building plans done, and at that point in time it was very hard to find anybody, because everybody was running around trying to get ADU plans done. Ours cost about $19,000 for two sets of plans for the two houses, another couple of...another $1500 for a septic system plan, another $8,000 for water meters; we had already gotten our ADU clearance, and so we were really committed and on the road now to having to actually build these houses. It's a property that we had owned for, at that point in time, over 30 years. We got that three-year extension and so the plans that we had at the building division are still sitting under the desk there. They're all approved and ready to go, but as has been mentioned by other speakers, you just can't get a loan anymore. I can't get a loan. I tried and couldn't do it. So the plans are sitting over there. I'd love to pull them out from under the desk and take them home and wait until we're ready. This 5-year extension would be extremely helpful in getting us some time. You know, as the previous gentleman said, we may not have wanted to build on this property for, you know, 10 or 15 years, but our hand was forced by this curse that we have on us. But the five years would be really helpful, and I hope that you will act in favor of this extension. Thank you. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Mike. Let me see if there's any questions. Are there any questions of Mr. Dyer? Mike, thank you for your testimony. Mr. Nakamura: No more further registered speakers, Mr. Chair. Mr. Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to testify on this bill, and could you raise your hand if you do? Please come up, Mr. Fudge. Are there any others? Mr. Fudge, you'll be our last speaker. PHIL FUDGE: Well thank you Council for the opportunity, and thanks for bringing it up for us. If you don't mind, I'll read this, otherwise I'll forget half of it. Thanks for the opportunity to testify about the possibility of extending the ADU deadline. I'm the principal broker for a local real estate company located in Kapa`a. I'm a member of several business organizations and the Kauai Board of Realtors; however, this testimony is solely my opinion and my request. I own a one acre parcel of ag zoned land and hope to build an ADU. As a real estate agent, I work with buyers, sellers, and residential and commercial rentals. As a realtor, I don't just read about our economic problems in the newspaper or hear about it on TV, I see and work with them every day. I can tell you from firsthand experience that people are struggling: owners to pay their mortgages to keep their properties, and tenants to pay their rent. Each month I see tenants falling behind on their rent and asking for rent reductions. Landlords, without exception, are helping where they can by accommodating these tenants that have had their hours cut or have 8 been laid off, or in the case of commercial tenants, seeing their business drop off as tourism has declined. These landlords, many of which also live in Hawaii, have mortgages that these rents help pay. They are facing their own financial difficulties, but in addition to being compassionate, they are smart enough to know that if they are not understanding, that they will have to look for new tenants and ultimately experience a greater loss of rental income. That's what I'm asking the county to be, understanding, compassionate, and smart, and to support this extension request. As Councilmembers, you are guardians of the land and the people of Kauai, and we need your help now. I support the county extending the ADU deadline for several reasons. During these current economic times, those of us not employed by the government or healthcare are struggling to make a living. For many of us, the ADU potential represents a significant portion of our retirement planning. Many of us cannot afford to build a house at this time. This request to extend the deadline five years will give most of us an opportunity to build our ADU as the economy recovers and our income returns to normal. Many industries in our nation that are suffering have received stimulus packages. For us, an extension would be a stimulus in that we won't have to build at an opportune time. We can't really afford not to build, as this will represent throwing literally thousands of dollars away. However, being forced to build now may require an initial mortgage to pay, if we can get the loan. If the economy doesn't recover soon, this would be an extreme financial hardship or even cost some of us to go into foreclosure or bankruptcy. If the extension is not passed, those that cannot afford to build now will be losing a huge asset. This represents future income for living expenses and retirement. Mr. Furfaro: Excuse me Phil. I just want to make notice that your first three minutes has come up, but you're welcome to take your next three minutes. Mr. Fudge: Okay, thank you. It is my opinion that we as a county have a responsibility, much like the federal government, to assist the people of Kauai, and unlike the federal government programs, this measure won't cost the county or its taxpayers a single dollar. By passing the ADU extension, many owners will have an opportunity that would otherwise be lost. This is a gain for the county in terms of increasing the tax base, more jobs in construction, and more affordable rentals available. Typically, ADUs are small and less expensive, so lower rents can be charged. In addition, once the economy starts to recover, we will be committed to contributing to recovery when we start to build our ADU. There will be those (inaudible) that say we are diminishing our agricultural lands by building ADUs and increasing the density of those lands; however, most of these lands are too small or otherwise unfit to be committed to agriculture. It is preferred that there be no deadline; however, a five year extension will help us all. Please vote to pass this ordinance relating to an extension of time to obtain a building permit for ADUs. Thank you. 9 Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Phil. May I ask if there's anyone... Lani, go right ahead. Ms. Kawahara: Hi Mr. Fudge. Did you mention why they couldn't meet the deadlines before the market crashed...the people that you were representing or speaking about? Mr. Fudge: Why they couldn't make... You mean to build? Ms. Kawahara: Their original deadline... The original deadline, why they were not able to meet it. Now we know the market is suffering, yes, but prior to that when it was booming, what did you... Did you specify the reason? I didn't... Mr. Fudge: Well, I can take myself as an example. I had not planned to build anything for several years. And now this is forcing me to do it much eax•lier than I wanted to, and I think a lot of people are in the same situation. I had thought that I would build something maybe in five years, ten years, something like that, something that would help with my retirement planning, and you know, some... an ADU for perhaps family, but more importantly to me, it would be to supplement my income. And I just didn't want to do it yet. Ms. Kawahara: So you did purchase it with the knowledge that there was a deadline, but you wanted to extend it at that point, even before? Mr. Fudge: Well, I've owned the property for 15 years I've lived there, and I got the ADU clearance before I bought the property...I mean when it was in escrow with that intent, but never with the intent to building until I was ready. And now then this is forcing me to and now...here's a deadline, and I wouldn't really want to build, but if I have to, I will. Ms. Kawahara: Okay, thank you. Mr. Fudge: Does that answer? Ms. Kawahara: Yeah, I think so, because there was a deadline that you knew of, but that you didn't want to build till you knew you wanted to build it... despite what the deadline was... Mr. Fudge: Right, I could have built it, you know, anytime in the last 15 years, but I just didn't want to. Ms. Kawahara: Okay, Okay. Thank you. Mr. Furfaro: Anybody have a question? Go right ahead, Mr .Bynum. 10 Mr. Bynum: Thanks Phil for your excellent testimony, and I see it's in writing. Can we get a copy of that? Mr. Fudge: Yes. Mr. Bynum: And I also wanted to thank you for acknowledging the large number of very thoughtful and considerate landlords that are working with their friends and neighbors to try to accommodate difficult situations. We have some of the best landlords in the world. Mr. Fudge: I've been really surprised over this past six months. Some people, they've even volunteered without even asking. Mr. Bynum: Right, and you know, when things were great and rents were high, there were many landlords who kept them low, you know, and didn't take advantage of the hot market, and now they're suffering and taking some loss to help out their friends and neighbors. I just know it's great to hear that. You see it firsthand. I know it's happening, and you know, much mahalos to all of the Kauai people that are working together to get us through these difficult times. I think your testimony was excellent. Thank you. Mr. Furfaro: Phil, before you leave, I just want to summarize some of the financial pieces we're seeing in the real estate market, just so we're all clear. The very difficult times in the mortgage market in banking really started back in March of 2007 with some very large brokerage houses. Lehman Brothers and so forth, they all began to find out that their value to credit rating was overextended. Subsequently, from March of 2007 until October of 2008 is when the market, as following up on Lani's question, is when the market started to feel the crunch, and we had almost 35 percent deflation in the market. It is very difficult now to even pursue getting a mortgage with 20 percent down, 25 percent down, 30 percent. Here we are a year later and we see this financial difficulties kind of rolling in out of the mortgage market now into the hotel and resort industry, and then soon into the business and commercial market. So we're realizing it may not be over in a year, but it didn't just start a year ago. Mortgage money is very difficult to get right now, am I correct? Mr. Fudge: I can attest to that with four or five things that I'm trying to work with right now. Mr. Furfaro: But I just want to give us all a perspective of we didn't get to the market in October and find out credit was tight. It started back with some of the major guys failing in 2007. 11 Mr. Fudge: That's right. Anyone that had their nose into financial markets, they knew that. There were some people that got caught, though, only recently. Mr. Furfax•o: But I do want to reiterate, that is one of the reasons, and I think Scott Oakley gave the same kind of testimony, it is very difficult as far back as 07 to finance the building of these small units which are intended f'or residential. The silver lining in this is in fact we may give some small stimulus to the construction business on additional housing and long term rental. So I'm glad from the real estate market you can attest that we just didn't open the door on October 8 and find out the market wasn't (inaudible). Mr. Fudge: Right. It's been brewing. Mr. Furfaro: Are there anymore questions for Phil? If not, thank you Phil. I do not believe we have anymore testimony... Oh, we have two more. Could I have the... Debra, may we ask you to come up. DEBRA MARCH: Good afternoon. Should I just go ahead? Okay, Debra March. Okay. I live in Wainiha, and I've had... I want to build an ADU, especially for my mother who is going to eventually come over here. She spends four months over here a year anyway. My father died about five years ago. And right now I went through...I had two car accidents, and I'm just getting back on my feet, and right now I just can't afford, especially with the market the way it is. You know, including my job, it's just barely hanging in there as well. So I'd really like to, you know, build something for my, you know, my family, but I would like to have the extension just because just to get back on my feet and, you know, be able to afford to build that. I'm hoping to build aowner-builder and thus, you know, build it over a longer period of time, but I still need a little bit of time before I can actually do that. So that's why I'm really hoping that we will get the extension. And I'm also asking, is there any way we can get a straw vote to find out? I know that the time is coming quickly to an end where we actually have to, you know, know if we have to build or not, and you know, just to give us an idea of what it looks like and do we have to really hustle to get things underway, you know, to build by this December. Mr. Kaneshiro: Mr. Furfaro, our chair for this committee, stepped out for a while. So as vice chair I'll be conducting the public hearing. I believe that the timetable is that after we do have a public hearing, this would then go back to committee. Committee will then review the ordinance on the floor and perhaps if there are no amendments to the ordinance, it can move on to council, and soon after we pass in the full council, if it's going into that route, and probably could be done about a month or so, I say, this bill. If, you know, if... Ms. March: If everything goes as... 12 Mr. Kaneshiro: It goes to committee, there are not so many amendments to the bill, and so forth, which we don't anticipate any amendments to this bill. So it'll go into committee, go back to full council, and possibly be based in three minutes(sic). Ms. March: Okay. So I mean is it looking good that it's going to pass and we... Mr. Kaneshiro: I can't answer for the rest of the members. This is the time that we take testimony, and so far from the testimony we've received, all testimonies have been very positive to the extensions of the ADU. I'm just talking about public testimony. And I know we still have more testimony coming forth, so I'll turn the chair back to Mr. Furfaro, our planning committee chair. Ms. March: Okay, great. Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Kaneshiro, thank you very much. I'll summarize what's next after we get to our last speaker. Ms. March: Okay. Great, thank you. Thank you very much. JOANN YUKIMURA: Aloha Councilmembers. Committee Chair Furfaro, Chair Asing, members, JoAnn Yukimura for the record. As the councilmember who introduced the amendment which stopped further creation of ADUs but allowed those who had the clearance form to proceed to building within a limited time, I do want to agree with Mr. Oakley that the main problem has...was addressed by that bill. And given the very convincing testimony today, I think there is little harm in extending the deadline for those who do have clearance forms for another five years, but I would object to an indefinite time. One reason for setting the limit to have people build within a certain was to limit the speculation that goes on on vacant lands which have unit densities not yet built, and you know, it can...in a hot market, it was just raising the price of ag land, and that would come back again with a hot market. So it was basically saying, okay you want to have something for your family, then do it and make it happen, rather than just leaving it open ended and allowing all the resales of vacant land to occur. The moral of this whole thing, actually, is to not do ad hoc overlays on our basic planning framework. That is what really happened when ADUs were allowed on ag land by councilmember Tehada, and it was vociferously opposed by the planning department, because here you were going to double the density on some lots on agricultural land, not understand what the infrastructure requirements would be now for water, sewage, roads, and so forth, and that was not part of our planning, and it just overnight kind of added all this density. And you know, adding density in residential areas which was planned for residences is one thing, but when you make it on ag land, which is supposed to be used for agriculture, that has other ramifications. So that was the reason why we had to put a stop to this continual creation of ADUs on ag land, and if we were to do that, then you wouldn t have this kind of reliance which 13 you can't blame people for, but you know, a person like Phil Fudge won't depend on ADUs on ag land, instead he would look to other residential lands for retirement planning or whatever, which would fit our planning purpose of having residences on residential land. So we are at fault. Yeah... Mr. Furfaro: That's your first three minutes. You can go right ahead. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Councilmember Furfaro. I mean it's really the fault of the public policy decision makers for having set up that framework in the first place, which started causing all these problems. We have stopped the bleeding, so to speak, and now...but we allow the rebuilding to try to accommodate the expectations that had been created by our public policy making, and so...I mean I...if there's a lesson to be learned, you know, don't make the mistake in the first place. Thank you. That's all, unless you have questions. Mr. Furfaro: Let me ask if there are any. Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I thank you for your testimony. I think that I agree with your analysis, and I also agree with Mr. Oakley and Mr. Fudge that given the circumstances that we have now, an extension of time for those people who had those expectations is a reasonable thing. So I appreciate your historic perspective. That's why I encourage people to read the planning department's report, which outlines that history, and so just thank you for your testimony. Ms. Yukimura: You're welcome. Mr. Furfaro: Any other questions for JoAnn? Ms. Yukimura: Council Chair? Council Chair Asing: I don't have a question, and if you don't mind my replying a little bit towards your... Ms. Yukimura: I always want to hear your thoughts. Council Chair Asing: Your comments about ad hoc overlay and how about we've been doing it for 22 years? Ms. Yukimura: I know. What was the intention, though, first five years... Council Chair Asing: What you're making reference to, these extensions we're asking for today has been extended for at least five times. So we talking about a 20... over 20 year cycle, and we've been going on and on and on. And so start with, I think the basis behind this, and you can turn to your right and you will 14 notice Jesse Fukushima who was on this council at that time, Jesse and I were on the council and we did the very first mandated...we were mandated by the legislature to do the additional dwelling unit... Ms. Yukimura: On residential land. Council Chair Asing: On residential, an what we're doing today is a result of that residential zoning additional dwelling unit zoning that we did was amended to include ag and open... Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Council Chair Asing: And that's when the door... Ms. Yukimura: That was the mistake. Council Chair Asing: ...was opened and we're here today and we're doing the same thing over and over. So we talking about over 25 years. Ms. Yukimura: You're right, Council Chair. Council Chair Asing: So it's... and at the last time when we did this, we said we're going to stop everything, and we're here today, we're going to go again. So anyway, just a little bit of history on what has happened, and then the intent... my friend Jesse can recall, the intent initially was for the expansion of the family, because the families, there was not enough land and property available, so you could be allowed to do an additional unit on your family property, and that was residentially zoned property. Ms. Yukimura: And what the...it wasn't anticipated... I'm sorry. Mr. Furfaro: Excuse me. The chair asked me for time for him to make comment. Council Chair Asing: I'm sorry. Thank you. My apologies. Mr. Furfaro: I won't pose any additional time here, because I happen to have a different position than both of you. But I have the privilege of being the chairman of this committee. I want to thank you, JoAnn, for your testimony. It's very much appreciated... Council Chair Asing: And I apologize. Mr. Furfaro: And I hope you understand, as chairman of the council, I have the same privilege as chairman of the committee. 15 Council Chair Asing: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Mr. Furfara: Is there anymore testimony? Okay, did we receive... I believe I extended your time the first time around, Mr. Fukushima. Let me just double-check. Did he get two three-minute sessions? You can come up far a second three minutes. Mr. Fukushima: Feels goad to be amongst former colleagues here, and I couldn't resist the fact that Ms, Yukimura did came up with some history as to why we're in the situation we're in. But I'd like to think that the first time when we initially passed the ADLT for aglopen properties was basically Kauai was in a very serious transition--we lost the pineapple industry, I forget what the figures were, but I remember back then, Avery Youn who was the planning director, he and I went out and actually came down with a,..several hundreds of families that were affected by the downturn of the pineapple industry, and these people were basically land rich, cash poor, and that was the beginning of why we initiated ADIJs an the agricultural lands. I'd like to think that also in terms of choices, there are still a whale lot of families out here an Kauai, basically your local population, two, three, four generations that really have had no chaise but the lands were bought in agricultural lands. And I do know that this council as well as previous councils as far back as the 8iJs did talk about changes within the comprehensive zoning ordinance. I've heard talk about we've talked about possibility of adding another classification to over...in the rural section, and I haven't seen anything done, and it's not your fault, it's because it takes a Iot of work and due diligence to create something. And I think as yau push forward in your CZO studies, I'm pretty sure that yau will see that when the rural classification do come of one of the zoning areas that it's going to be probably an answer to a lot of the lands that not only the State, but the county had just said, if it's not in residential, if it's not RR-20, we're putting it in ag or we're putting it in open. Any questions? Thank you. Mr. Furfara: Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting back to order. I'm going to have some dialogue with my colleagues here, and then ask if they have any additional comment. First of all to the group, bill number 222 as introduced by myself was actually heard far first reading on July 22. It was sent down to the planning department and the commission. It came back to us on the 9~~ of September. The 9t~ of September, we had the first reading. We set this public hearing on October B. After this public hearing, it will go back to my committee, which will be next week the 14~h. After the 14t~ and if it is successful, it potentially could go to the full council under Mr. Asing's guidance an the 2~yt of October. That is a very tight but passible schedule. It's dependent upon haw long it remains in my committee next week. I'm going to give some summary comments. May I ask if there's anyone here... Okay, 16 You know, I just want to say, there's dialogue from councilmembers that go back a few more years to me. I just want to say that the intent of this bill is also to stop speculation. The intent of this bill is basically to say, let's make some exceptions based on the people that found some challenging times and these financial conditions, and make them declare their intent to move forward on these. The fact of the matter is it gave the county an opportunity, on those 374 applicants, to understand what our maximum exposure was, and at the same time, putting the vacation rental program in place that does not allow any...how do I want to say...expansion of that contrary to what the general plan...in consistency with the general plan wanting to control that. It is also the intent of this bill, and I want to make you know, I have no intent to move this bill forward with any more extensions. This is something that Councilman Asing has mentioned, as well as former Councilwoman Yukimura. I think it is looking at the problem, digesting the problem, coming up with a fair and compassionate approach to those that declared, but I want to make it very clear that this five year extension is to solve some of the economic challenges that we have right now, as well as recognizing those people that came forward and declared their intent by filing a facilities claim. If there is not any further discussion, this public hearing is closed. There being no further testimony on this matter, the public hearing adjourned at 2:28 p.m. Respectfully submitted, PETER A. NAKAMURA County Clerk /ao 17