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HomeMy WebLinkAbout02/09/2011 Regular Council MeetingCOUNCIL MEETING February 9, 2011 The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kauai, was called to order by the Council Chair at the Council Chambers, 3371 -A Wilcox Road, Lihu`e, Kauai, on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 at 9:23 a.m., after which the following members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Dickie Chang Honorable Derek S. K. Kawakami Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura Honorable Mel Rapozo Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura Honorable Jay Furfaro, Council Chair APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by Mr. Chang. Chair Furfaro: Any discussion? Mr. Nakamura: On the approval of the agenda, if we could ask that we refer to page four (4) of the Council's agenda under Committee Reports and Resolutions. There's a typographical error on Committee Report CR -EDR 2011 - 01, it's supposed to be 02, and on EDR 2011 -01, that should also be 02. Under the Resolution's on the third Resolution No. 2011 -28, that should be 2011 -38 Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: Okay so we have two (2) amendments to the agenda. I did catch the second one which was the amendment of Resolution 2011- 28; it should be Resolution No. 2011 -38. Mr. Nakamura: Correct. Chair Furfaro: And I'm sorry the other one is? Mr. Nakamura: On the top of page four (4) under Committee Reports Economic Development & Renewable Energy Strategies Committee that should read, just under that CR -EDR 2011 -02 as opposed to 01 and this would be on EDR 2011 -02 instead of 01, they're both on page four (4). Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Can we have a housekeeping motion to correct those numbers? Mr. Bynum moved to amend the agenda as stated, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Now we'll go back to approving the agenda? Mr. Nakamura: Correct. Mr. Rapozo moved to approve the agenda as amended, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried. 2 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: We'll go into the minutes and I think that's when I'll recognize Councilwoman Yukimura. Mr. Nakamura: minutes? Can we have a motion to approve the MINUTES of the following meeting of the Council: Inaugural Meeting of December 1, 2010 (Deferred 112612011) Special Council Meeting of January 11, 2011 Council Meeting of January 12, 2011 Ms. Yukimura moved to approve the Minutes, seconded by Mr. Rapozo. Chair Furfaro: Any discussion? Ms. Yukimura: Yes please. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Just that I've been concerned with the Inaugural Meeting Minutes and the attachments. It's been explained to me since our last meeting that while the attachments are not placed on the minutes which are electronically sent to us for approval or for review, they will be attached to the minutes that are made available on the web and to our hard copy minutes. With that, I'm fine for approving those minutes. Chair Furfaro: second to approve the minutes? Ms. Yukimura: Chair Furfaro: those in favor? Thank you. So did I have a motion and a Yes. Is there any further discussion? If not, all The motion for approval of the minutes as circulated was then put, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Clerk? Mr. Nakamura: First matter on the Council's agenda is communication C 2011 -55. COMMUNICATIONS: C 2011 -55 Communication (12/28/2010) from Beth Tokioka, Director of Communications, Office of the Mayor, transmitting for Council information, the Kekaha Host Community Benefits Citizens Advisory Committee (KHCBCAC) conceptual plan pursuant to Ordinance B- 2010 -714 adopted by the Council at its meeting held on September 15, 2010. Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -55 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura. 3 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: I'm going to suspend the rules and allow Beth Tokioka to make a presentation and then I will open for public comments. Beth do you have a PowerPoint presentation for us this morning? There being no objections, the rules were suspended. BETH TOKIOKA (DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS): Yes I do, thank you. Chair Furfaro: lights? Very good. Can somebody attend to the Ms. Tokioka: Good morning Councilmembers. I'm Beth Tokioka for the record, Office of the Mayor. I'm very happy to be here this morning to talk to you about the Kekaha Host Community Benefits and the Citizens Advisory Committee activities. I have a little bit of information to present to you today but mainly we are here as a follow up to the Bill that was passed in December which allowed us to access additional funding to continue the process of the Citizens Advisory Committee and their quest to identify projects to be funded through the Host Community Benefits fund. It was our task to come back to the Council with a plan for action for use of those funds and that's what we'll be presenting to you today. This PowerPoint will take us through a little bit of history about the CAC process for the benefit of those who haven't been involved from the beginning and for the public at large. Before I begin I just wanted to note that we have with us today Mr. Bruce Pleas who is the Chair of the CAC, as well as Jose Bulatao who is the Vice Chair. We also have, in addition to me, two (2) other non - voting members of the CAC and that is Allison Fraley from the Solid Waste Division, and Mauna Kea Trask who is our Deputy County Attorney. I believe Bruce will be ready to speak on behalf of the CAC if you have any questions following the presentation and any of us from the non - voting side will be available as well. First off a little bit about the history of the Kekaha Host Community Benefits Program, the purpose really was and it's used in many communities to compensate a Host Community that is nearby a landfill or another facility of that type. This was initiated in 2008 when the County went out to Kekaha and presented some plans to expand that landfill. It was decided that we would set up a Host Community Benefits Program to benefit the community of Kekaha and the concept is to provide funding for projects that benefit that community and it was determined that the best way to do that was to have a Citizens Advisory Committee that would represent the community and be able to make recommendations back to the County which types of projects the community desires and would be most beneficial to that community. Just a recap what we have in terms of funding in June 2008 the Council appropriated an initial $650,000.00, that has been supplemented each fiscal year following that by an additional $80,000.00 which has been requested and approved in that fiscal year's budget and that represents roughly $1.00 per ton of material that is deposited in the landfill and that's normally how each CB funds are funded by a calculation based on tonnage. At this point in time we have a total amount in the HCB fund of $810,000.00, that does not include interest that will be applied, and I apologize, I don't have the interest calculation for you today, but in addition to passing the bill in September for the additional funds for the process, it was also 4 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 approved by the County Council to appropriate interest to that fund. So there is additional money that would insert into that fund based on the interest. Our CAC members are listed here for your review. On the left we have our voting members, we have nine (9) members from the community, they have been all appointed by the Mayor, and we're very, very happy to have this group of people who are so committed to this process. We also have four (4) non - voting members which are basically County support staff to provide technical support and other legal support, etc... and you can see they are noted on the right. This is the CAC mission statement and it was adopted at the CAC's first meeting in April of 2009. The Committee was appointed by the Mayor in March of 2009 and we had our first meeting in April and this is the mission statement: "To serve as a community advisory committee to recommend projects and their administrative process for the disbursement of the HCB funds) allocated to, and in accordance with, the general consensus of the Kekaha community." And I think a really key point in this mission statement is that last line regarding general consensus of the Kekaha community. I really have to credit this group of citizens in being very, very conscientious of not wanting to make any decision or recommendation until they really feel that they have a sense that this is in line of what the community wants. The activities to date, we had an initial series of eight (8) meetings and they started in April 2009 and they ended just about a year ago in January 2010. During that timeframe a number of activities took place, the Committee was organized of course and one of the main projects was to conduct a survey of the community to see what the desires and interest were of the community. During that period a survey was developed and it was conducted and that was done by a contractor, a consultant that we had onboard to facilitate this first initial eight (8) meetings. We did get some surveys back, quite a number of them, forty -one (41 %) return rate. During those eight (8) meetings the results were tabulated, there were projects that were prioritized and the Committee met on a number of occasions to talk about those and to create the framework for a final report to be sent to the Mayor on which of those projects should be funded. Again that process, that initial process was facilitated by a consultant that... it was AECOM and they were our consultant for the expansion of the landfill. Just to let you know in terms of the mindset of the CAC, this is taken from one (1) of the minutes, the minutes of the first meeting and basically that the CAC feels really strongly that they should be the voice and again representing what they're hearing from the community but they should be the voice for the County and the entity we should be looking for when we are actually expanding these funds on behalf of the community and... so the nine (9) voting members of the CAC really are... is the go -to group for us when we're looking at this and I think we feel very strongly that that should be the case as well. During that process we did as I mentioned conduct a survey; these were the results of the survey... the top five (5) areas that the Committee during the summer of 2009 decided to focus on: (1) improving Kekaha Beach Park, (2) improving the Kekaha Neighborhood Center, (3) begin a fund for a community pool, (4) renewable energy projects, and (5) improving drainage on Kekaha Road. Actually on the course of those meetings number five (5) was dropped off because that was determined to be something that County and State government should be taking 5 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 care of outside of the HCB funds. But at the end of the eight (8) initial meetings, the top four (4) were the ones that were focused on. What has happened since then? At the end of those meetings, that series in January of 2010, the Chair at the time who was Randy Hee was asked to prepare a final report based on the discussions of the Committee to date and that report was to be submitted to the Mayor and the community for possible adoption. What happened was the final report was represented to the community and to the Mayor in July of 2010 last summer but it was not adopted by the CAC, it was felt by the CAC that the survey results and all of the information gathering they had done up to that point had not brought them to the point of really being able to make a recommendation to us and that they wanted to do additional work before making a recommendation. Again this points to the conscientious nature of this group of citizens who really want to get it right and the fact that we're doing something brand new and taking the time that we need to make it happen. At that point the previous work was sort of you know, set to the side, and we began monthly meetings again in August to start talking about where we go from there. In the meantime our Chair Randy Hee had to resign for personal reasons and the Mayor replaced him with Thomas Nizo. Bruce Pleas was then appointed Chair of the Committee. Also Thomas Nizo started working on a concept for, instead of using a survey to identify what was needed, to use an RFP process which I'll go into a little bit later, but he came up with a concept that the Committee felt really good about exploring. And then roughly the same time last summer was when Council Chair Furfaro introduced the Bill that would allocate additional funding so that the work could continue. It's a very intense process and we had a consultant onboard to facilitate and that contract had ended at that point and we really appreciated the opportunity to have some funding to bring another consultant onboard to help facilitate this process in the right way so that allocation was presented to the Council and approved in September but it was contingent upon the submission of a conceptual plan so that the Council would know how we would be proceeding and that's what we're here to show you today. We met with the CAC over the last few months to talk about what will it take to get us to the next level and actually getting us to the next level and actually get us to the point of the CAC being able to make its recommendations and what we're recommending at this point based on our discussions is that we procure the services of a consultant that will facilitate and work through a process that will help us get to that recommendation and a report so that we could actually act on that and start expending the funds on behalf of the people of Kekaha. This would be the scope of work that would be needed that we would be looking at running a series of workshops, meetings, Sub - Committee meetings and also doing a great deal of community outreach over a period of months and based on the fact that we're talking about you know quite a number of meetings, may be up to sixteen (16) or eighteen (18) meetings, I'm guessing this process will take us six (6) months, possibly longer than that to complete but this would be the scope of work for the consultant and the facilitator to be able to take us through a process to get to that point of decision and recommendation. This slide basically is a lot of boxes so I'll just try to explain... this is sort of the meat of what we would be helping the CAC get through during this process which would bring us to the point of making some recommendations. This is Thomas Nizo's plan to run a request for proposals type of a process whereby the 6 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 community, groups in the community would be encouraged to present projects to the CAC and that the CAC would then review and look at those projects, receive community input and make a final determination. Now what Thomas did which I thought was very thoughtful and interesting was that in that top long blue box are six (6) categories of types of proposals and what he did was trying to honor the work that had been done in the survey. He looked back in that survey that was done the summer before and the types of projects that had been and the number of votes that they got to get a sense of what the community was looking for. So he was able to group them into six (6) different categories and assign a percentage based on the number of votes that each one received. The six (6) categories are: (1) community improvements which would be CIP type of projects... improvements to the Beach Park or the Neighborhood Center, (2) Economic Revitalization, (3) Environment /Sustainability, (4) Education/Culture and the Arts, (5) Human Services and (6) Health and Wellness. The way this would work is that the CAC would invite community groups or interested parties to submit proposals that would fit into one (1) of these categories and they would do some outreach previous to that to let people know how to apply so that we can ensure that we get good solid proposals in. So they would solicit these proposals, have them come in, they would review them, probably take them through a public process of getting more input on the proposals from the public, and ultimately would end up in a recommendation to the County of which should be funded, and it's my understanding that they wouldn't be probably using all of the funds during this round of initial proposals but would be chunking it out so that over a series of years there would be an opportunity for new projects to come to the table. I think all of us, I know from what I've heard from the CAC meetings, everybody feels very good that this is a very good process in a way to get this money out into the community and perhaps even build capacity of some of the community groups out there. The bulk of the process and the meetings that we're talking about facilitating with this money would be to take us through this process for the first time, set it up and get this going so that it can continue going forward. Our next steps now are to gain your concurrence on this conceptual plan so that we can begin the procurement process to bring the facilitator onboard and to hopefully award that contract within a couple of months so we can get the process really up and going. In the meantime we are continuing to meet monthly with the CAC and just supporting that effort through our county manpower just to ensure there's great momentum right now, great interest and we want to make sure that that keeps moving forward as best it can until we can get the facilitator onboard to really take this process to the next level, get to the point where we can start expending this money on behalf of this community. That is my presentation and I'd be happy to bring Bruce up if you have questions for me or for Bruce, I'd be happy to entertain questions at this time. Chair Furfaro: Beth it might be better if we have you for some questions on this presentation and then we'll surely bring up Bruce. Ms. Tokioka: Okay, sure. Chair Furfaro: Can we get the lights back on and every member do you have a hard copy of the presentation that was just made? Very good. Thank you Beth. So members if you heard me let's focus our questions on the COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 presentation made by Beth and then we'll certainly bring up Bruce. Is Bruce in the audience? Mr. Chang: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Oh, I didn't see you, Bruce, there. Okay members any questions for Beth on the historic background on how we got where we're at, and with the new allocation it was a condition on the Council that we be briefed on this new fund that we put on, and this accomplishes that task. Any questions? Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: Thank you for the presentation and it's nice to get this update and see. So this plan that you outline, you feel like there's a consensus from the CAC about this is the way to go? Ms. Tokioka: Yes definitely. Mr. Bynum: And thank you CAC for coming to a consensus. Personally I particularly like the RFP kind of idea because it's a process that you know allows for creativity and has fairness built in and we know how to do that and we have that expertise and it ends up with a decision to expand the funds and projects. Looking at the community interest areas there's some dollars attached to this and it looks like it's about two hundred thousand (200,000) a year so is it the intent of the CAC, I think you answered this already but do a approximately two hundred thousand (200,000) this year and then two hundred thousand (200,000) the next year, eventually that would use up the fund that's there because we're putting around eighty (80) more or less depending upon you know the volume into the landfill? Ms. Tokioka: Correct. Mr. Bynum: Do I have that right? Ms. Tokioka: Yes that's correct. That was Thomas's intent was his proposal, the CAC could ultimately grant more or less in any given year but the idea was if you did it in that way it would spread the dollars out over a number of years. Mr. Bynum: And in the final, when the RFP's were reviewed and the discussions were made that those discussions were made by the CAC? Ms. Tokioka: Yes. Mr. Bynum: And they understanding that with that comes some accountability, right? Ms. Tokioka: Yes. And I think that's why, that's why they're taking such a thoughtful approach and taking their time because they realize that's a big responsibility. Mr. Bynum: So is there a choice to keep that responsibility rather than allocating to the Mayor or somebody else? 8 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Tokioka: Correct. The recommendations ultimately will have to be reviewed by us to ensure that these projects are in fundable and viable and that they won't require for example permits of some kind that would make it very difficult to achieve. Ideally we'd like to be looking at those things as they're moving through the process, so by the time it gets to recommendation we know they're all feasible. But eventually the recommendations will come to the Mayor and then we would need to seek your concurrence on how those funds are being spent. So we will be back to you again with the recommendations at some point. Mr. Bynum: And you anticipated my next question that there will be some review from the County about legality and appropriateness and we can put in our two (2) cents about what we know about what's possible and what is it? Ms. Tokioka: Correct. Mr. Bynum: And... I won't get too technical but when the RFP is developed because our RFP's give guidance to the people applying about what the questions they need to answer, that would be part of the consultant's scope of work? Ms. Tokioka: Yes and in fact at this point we are actually looking at an application document, we're using our Ho`olokahi grant application as a start and the Committee is looking at how that might be amended to actually work for the purposes of this Committee. That work is not complete. By the time the facilitator comes onboard that would be part of that as well to ensure that our document is complete. And then to go out before inviting proposals to have an informational meeting as we do when we do our HTA festival grants, we have an informational meeting where we invite folks in to explain what the process is so that everybody's clear on what the application is asking for and I believe that's the intent of the CAC also. Mr. Bynum: Okay, thank you very much on the presentation. Chair Furfaro: Other members? If not, I'll ask a few questions. First of all thank you for a very nice presentation, it certainly looks like the Advisory Group really did some work here. Ms. Tokioka: They did. Chair Furfaro: First I want to confirm what I see... it looks like the group is going to hire a facilitator? Ms. Tokioka: Yes or the County will hire a facilitator on their behalf. Chair Furfaro: Oh the County will hire a facilitator for them? Ms. Tokioka: Yes. W COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: But that is a definite action that we're going to take? Ms. Tokioka: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Whatever the outcome of the deliverables, do we have kind of a final blessing of that time table, I mean is it six (6) months from now, is it nine (9) months from now... or at least a general idea. Ms. Tokioka: I think I know that our Chair Bruce had expressed a desire possibly to once we get going on this to have as many as two (2) meetings a month. I would say given the number of meetings that we think we need, it will take somewhere between six (6) months... six (6) to twelve (12) months. But I know there's a real desire on the part of the CAC to move it as quickly as we can. Hopefully it will be closer to six (6) months than twelve (12). Chair Furfaro: And I concur when we get to those deliverables it will be reviewed by the Mayor and then it will be delivered to this body here to... Ms. Tokioka: Yes, correct. Chair Furfaro: Along the other line if you don't have the answer to this, when they were considering the possible capital improvement plans, uses or specific projects that the community had a desire on, was there any discussion about the use or committing the annual revenues contribution to anyway shape, or form of one (1) bond, for example, projecting future income to the CAC would they say okay we can get a bigger cash allowance now by tying the payment the County makes to a bond that would allow more planning opportunities, was that... would finance discussion on that? Ms. Tokioka: I don't think we've had that specific- discussion at this point. It's been more focused really on the more immediate task at hand in getting... and then once we know what the projects are whether they are of a CIP nature; I guess that would be good to look at that possibility. Chair Furfaro: Well you know thank the whole Committee, I mean we allocated this new money and we put our trust in them that they come up with a plan that they wanted to see in their community and it looks like we're well on our way. Thank you for the very nice presentation. Ms. Tokioka: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Anyone else before I ask Mr. Pleas to come up? Go ahead JoAnn. Ms. Yukimura: Yes your presentation was very well done, thank you for that and congratulations to you and the leadership and the CAC, the community leadership and the CAC for the hard work that it took breaking new ground. So the timeframe is six (6) to twelve (12) months and the intention and the commitment is that within that period there will be a list of projects that has community consensus for appropriation and implementation? 10 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Tokioka: Yes, correct that's the expectation for the final deliverable, yes. Ms. Yukimura: And then you mentioned that the six hundred fifty thousand (650,000) is about a dollar per ton deposited presently in the... Ms. Tokioka: The initial six hundred fifty thousand (650,000) I think was a number determined by the members of the Council at the time. Ms. Yukimura: Right. Ms. Tokioka: And I don't know if that was based on a scientific calculation of that sort but the eighty thousand (80,000) per year since then has been based on a calculation of an... year. Ms. Yukimura: I see. Ms. Tokioka: Because then we're estimating for the next Ms. Yukimura: I see. Ms. Tokioka: For the coming year. Ms. Yukimura: So we're putting into that landfill as an island about eighty thousand (80,000) tons of solid waste each year? Ms. Tokioka: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: Well that's a figure to consider. Okay thank you. The ninety -five thousand (95,000) does seem like a large figure for a six (6) to twelve (12) month facilitation process, are you intending to have that whole amount allocated or are you going to be... maybe parceling out that money and saving some for a reserve in case of contingencies? Ms. Tokioka: I think... well one of the things in addition to the facilitating of the process, the CAC really needs to have a dedicated PA system out at the Kekaha Neighborhood Center. One of the things that they would like to do with this money is to purchase such a system because right now we're borrowing from Boards and Commissions and hauling it out every time we have a meeting. But that would be less than five thousand dollars ($5,000) expenditure which would leave the rest of the money possibly for this facilitation process, and I have heard some feedback that it shouldn't cost us that much money. I think what we'll, when we get to the negotiation of the contract with the facilitator, we will know whether or not there's surplus but you know I don't know if there are additional needs above and beyond the facilitation... the contract with the consultant we could consider using it and probably we will need to come back to you at that time. But if we didn't need to use it all, I don't know if we spend it, find a way to spend it just to spend it. 11 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: I'm not familiar with the RFP process but if you tell them there's so much money... oftentimes the proposal will expand to use up that money so... Ms. Tokioka: Yeah. That's about what it cost us to run the process with AECOM the first time, although they were a off - island company, so a lot of that were travel to Kauai to facilitate meetings and such. So it will be interesting to see if we get proposals from entities here on island whether that reduction in cost is reflected in the proposal. Ms. Yukimura: My last question is, in the projects as they are being considered, is there a costing of the maintenance and lifecycle costing of proposed facilities because that can sometimes dwarf upfront implementation cost and you want to make sure that the maintenance can be done, whatever the facility is, if it is a facility, I mean the proposals may be programs and services. Ms. Tokioka: Right. Ms. Yukimura: But that accurate costing would seem important so that the community knows what it's choosing. Ms. Tokioka: Yes. That's been a discussion all through the process especially when we're talking about improvements to County facilities such as the Beach Park or the Neighborhood Center that that has to be factored in and it can't be assumed that the County would just assume that maintenance cost from General Fund. It's a very good point that as we put out the RFP I think we need to be asking those who are submitting to be thinking about that in their own development of their proposal is what would be the ongoing cost, so that upfront we're evaluating that before it ever gets to a final approval by the CAC, we're all clear as to whether or not the County would be willing to assume that cost in the General Fund side or would be need to be something that additionally comes out of the HCB allocation. So it's something that we definitely need to include in the process and be accountable to. Ms. Yukimura: Chair Furfaro: was going to... go ahead, I'm sorry. Ms. Yukimura: Chair Furfaro: And then... Oh, I thought that was your last question; I This is my last question. Okay. Ms. Yukimura: In terms of the projects to be considered given this very creative RFP process and the allocation of funds in different categories, you're not limiting yourselves or the Committee is not limiting itself to the first five (5) that were selected, is that correct? Ms. Tokioka: I think we haven't gotten that detailed in the discussions but I don't believe they would be, I think their intent is to look at the... all the proposals that come in as a group and I'm assuming they would try to impact each of those categories in some way but there will need to be probably I'm guessing as most processes like this go, you get more dollars requested than dollars available. 12 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: Right. Ms. Tokioka: So there won't be a need to weed out, but I think the intent is to try to hit each of this need area or focus areas to a certain extent. Ms. Yukimura: Because I'm aware that there've been some really imaginative discussions about a multi -use path that connects Waimea to Kekaha and that might be a way of expanding the money or the... reach of the moneys, because then the people of Kekaha would have easy access to the Waimea swimming pool and vice versa when there's a Kekaha celebration, and there's also been talk about it being mauka so that it can be a holding place in case of tidal waves and so forth, so it seems like it could meet many purposes besides exercise and health and transportation and all of that. So I'm glad that the Committee is not limiting itself to four (4) and taking a wider look. Ms. Tokioka: I think they're very open to hearing what's out there because I think at this point they're very uncomfortable making a decision on behalf of the community until they have more information and hopefully we will get a lot of creative proposals to consider either now or they could be held for the next round depending on how often they want to go through the process. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much, thank you Chair. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Nakamura. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you Beth and the CAC and Kekaha community for paving the path here for this program. I wanted to first of all talk about the RFP process and I'm glad that it is going to RFP. I think there are capable facilitators to help reduce the cost of the overall project by keeping it on island and keeping the funds on this island, so I'm glad to hear that that process is taking place for this phase. And I also agree with Councilwoman Yukimura that the... there's a lot of money to do a six (6) to twelve (12) month facilitation, having done this facilitation type of work in the community, it is a lot, and if there are surplus funds, I'd like to hear about what can be done with those funds that will further this process. On the scope of work I think we should at the end of the day because you're going to be receiving eighty thousand (80,000) until the year 20 -is it sixteen (16) or eighteen (18)? Ms. Tokioka: Roughly we're assuming there are seven (7), eight (8)... about seven (7) years of life. Ms. Nakamura: Yeah, that we also come up with community consensus on the criteria that will be used to determine funding, and I'm sure that will come out in the final recommendation but to be very clear what that criteria is among that CAC members and community. Also I think that we should take advantage of this community discussion to talk about the long term capacity of the community to allocate these funds, and to look at other community improvement projects. So there may be, I know there's the CAC, there's other community groups there you know. Is it possible to have some consensus on who is the group representing the community and who will receive the administrative funds that you outlined here and who's going to actually be the liaison with the County, not just 13 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 now but over the long run. So I hope that you can take advantage of this discussion to at least address some of those questions and also one of the... in looking at this chart here under community improvements I noticed that the top two (2) projects were related to the Beach Park and the community center and again... could be big ticket item improvements and there's a hundred thousand (100,000) listed here for year one so just some concern that some of the capital projects may take a bigger percentage of the total allocation but again the discussions need to take place. Ms. Tokioka: Some of the projects actually that fell out of the survey were for example putting a compostable toilet at the Beach Park, not a huge tickets items... having a cover for the hula facility at the Neighborhood Center those kinds of things, so hopefully even in that category there might be a number of smaller Ho`olokahi type projects that could be funded. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you for your good work. Chair Furfaro: Members on that note, do you mind if I bring up Bruce because some of the questions seem to go towards community issues so if Beth if you could stay there, we could also ask Bruce to come up, I thought the first rounds of questions would just be directed at her presentation but... Bruce, good morning, you're going to have to introduce yourself but first let me congratulate you on being the Chairman of the Community Committee. BRUCE PLEAS: Thank you. For the record Bruce Pleas, Chair Kekaha Host Community Benefits CAC. Chair Furfaro: now. I'm going to turn over the floor to Mr. Rapozo Mr. Rapozo: Thank you and thank you Beth for being here, I know we spoke for a little bit yesterday in preparation for the meeting and I just, I think some of the concerns have already been brought up but I just wanted to... now that Bruce is here because I was really waiting to ask Bruce as the Chair of the Committee. Part of it is the community improvements, we talked about it, it's a huge chunk but I guess what I'm concerned about is that this program or this organization will... what I don't want to say is (inaudible) the County's responsibilities to do CIP projects, in other words utilizing these Host Community Benefit Funds to pay for projects that the County should be paying for out of the General Fund or the CIP projects. I think that is what I'm concerned about. When I see a hundred thousand dollars a year and forty -seven percent of the fund go to community improvements, I don't want to see the money be taken away from the community, like the small organizations that are interested in providing services or programs for the kids out there, I don't want to see a bulk of that money going off to build a structure that the County should be building with General Funds or CIP funds. Chair Furfaro: Could I just hold that thought? Bruce, you do have and Mr. Rapozo wasn't with us but I did provide your Committee the 2014 CIP plan so that you knew what was already earmarked, you do have that? Mr. Pleas: Yes we did and we received that and we looked at that. What's an interesting, what has been interesting over this whole 14 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 course of the CAC was that at the beginning the projects were all like CIP projects, County projects and that was the big complaint when the Mayor came and was voted down, was that they were all CIP projects. The County should be doing this. What was interesting the two (2) meetings after that where we had quite a few people coming, and they said these are the projects that we want done, these are what we think... it was interesting, those were CIP projects too. There were baseball groups coming in wanting to build dugouts, wanting to improve the County parks, it was just different parks. I know it's a concern and it's been concern of the community but when the community came back it was still high on their list to get the county facilities up to where they would want them and they were willing to do like Ho`olokahi, those projects where they'd come in and it would cost very little money to do what was done. So that was a very interesting fact that I saw and I'm not that concerned about the CIP because Kekaha Gardens is thirty -five (35) years and it hasn't been done. So if the community wants to do something and will do it for one -tenth of what it would cost the county, we can put the rest of that money off for maintenance and have these groups dedicated to go ahead and maintain it. I understand and that was a big concern, that's why the first one got shot down but when everybody came back it was still CIP's, and we have that there, we can change those numbers but the community is the one that's going to drive this. They're the ones that going to bring the proposals to us, we're not making... this time the survey comes back and says where we're going to be. Mr. Rapozo: Bruce let me tell you, I was part of that meeting when you guys opened up the surveys and you know and I think you will agree that many of the people that were at that meeting never received the survey, their voices were never heard, so I mean I appreciate your comments yeah that's what the community wants, the question is who in the community will make this decision because you know for a fact that not every household got a survey. Each household got one (1) survey, so if you had a relative like in Kauai we've got groups, family members sharing a household but only one (1) person got to vote and it was pretty limited. What I envisioned was what I heard Beth saying earlier, the process will be if anyone has a project that they want to do, they put in an application. That application will be reviewed by the CAC and in fact will be voted upon and I think that's where and I'm hoping that's the direction we're heading and not limited to the select few members of the community got to pick. Mr. Pleas: No, our discussion on that, the CAC, was that's why we had the outreach portion of the ninety -five thousand for going out and putting our newspaper ads, information for the people so the community groups will know about the meeting when they have to come in and a facilitator to put together the information so when they come in they have a packet there that shows them how to apply, what the parameters are of it but the... what the money from the Council, what we're looking at to using that for is to make sure that everyone knows about the meetings, that's about the best we can do. What worked really well was going around town with a blow horn on top of the car and we're going to do that again. Mr. Rapozo: Bruce, I don't know if you heard me. Mr. Pleas: And... Mr. Rapozo: When I was at that last meeting, the coaches from Waimea High School were there, they never knew, they never had an 15 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 opportunity to participate, they live in Kekaha. And that's what I'm saying and I'm hoping that this... in other words they don't have to go to a meeting to apply for money. I'm hoping that this is like Ho`olokahi where anybody in that Kekaha community can go down to the County Administration and pick up a packet. That it's a program that's opened up to everyone, that's what I'm hoping, not the only ones that can go to the meetings. Mr. Pleas: Note taken and we will bring that up and... Mr. Rapozo: Explain to me... it's not how it is right now? What's the process now? Ms. Tokioka: I think the way we have to run it is there will need to be deadlines though so in other words... Mr. Rapozo: I understand. Ms. Tokioka: So we'll get the word out that here's the process, we'll probably do an informational meeting that they can come to or not come to but by a certain date they will be asked to submit their proposal. Mr. Rapozo: Right. Ms. Tokioka: For it to be considered. Mr. Rapozo: But anybody in the Kekaha community can do that? Ms. Tokioka: Yes. Mr. Rapozo: Not limited to the projects that the CAC approve of? Ms. Tokioka: No. Mr. Rapozo: And the other question on the chart and I got to agree on the ninety -five thousand because I think at two (2) meetings a month which is what you want to do, Bruce, that works out just under four thousand dollars a meeting for a facilitator... I think that's quite high. I think that's very high, that's like... I might be a facilitator instead and go and take that contract. And in addition you have the twenty thousand for the Admin support, so I'm concerned on the cost and I think Councilmember Yukimura said now everybody going to be watching this is going to know today wow they got ninety grand, you know... we're going to bid high and I think what's responsible for a facilitator, I don't know, what's it like, a hundred bucks a session? What is it? Mr. Pleas: No. Mr. Rapozo: I mean you guys paid the last one a lot and I'm just saying whatever that standard is... Ms. Tokioka: I think this is very good information and when we do the procurement I'll talk to Purchasing about possibly framing it in a 16 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 way so that maybe the entire ninety -five isn't right in people face. If we can come to reasonable expectation of what it should cost and see what we get. Mr. Rapozo: Well I mean if you charge seventy -five bucks an hour and it's two (2) hours a meeting, it's a hundred and fifty bucks and I'm just trying to be reasonable here... that's a hundred fifty bucks times two (2), it's three hundred dollars a month, you times that by twelve (12), that's thirty -six hundred dollars a year. Ms. Tokioka: Well that also includes preparation for the meeting and minutes and agendas and coordinating... Mr. Rapozo: That's what the Admin support is for, I would think. Ms. Tokioka: That would all come out of the ninety... whoever is doing the contract for this process. Mr. Rapozo: Oh so that twenty thousand is not an additional twenty, that's out of the ninety -five? Ms. Tokioka: That's for the ongoing process, so once we're through this first round and we no longer have a consultant on board. Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Ms. Tokioka: Someone will have to run those meetings and that would be... but we would have to keep it to a reasonable amount like twenty thousand at that point in time. Mr. Rapozo: Well I would just be concerned about the amount that we allocated for a facilitator and the final question I have for right now J the second to the last block on the bottom, review and evaluation of RFP by CAC, public hearing and decision, public hearing meaning the Kekaha community public hearing? Mr. Pleas: Yes, that would be the CAC. Mr. Rapozo: Not the general public? Mr. Pleas: The people who attend the CAC meeting that would be the public that attends the meeting. Those we would have posted. Mr. Rapozo: Right. Mr. Pleas: And have the car go around Kekaha and tell everybody there's a public meeting on the RFPs. Mr. Rapozo: Okay, I just want to make sure that... you know the money and you got to go back to the intent and I think Councilmember Yukimura asked how did the six hundred fifty thousand dollars come about, well it is simple, the initial request was for a million and it was negotiated down it wasn't scientific, it was something that the Council at that time felt they deserve it, they've 17 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 been hosting this community bill for decades, and we felt that a million dollars was sufficient, and it got knocked down to six fifty and that's fine, that was the seed money and now it's supplemented every year. But that money was for Kekaha community and it was to make sure the Kekaha community had the ability to get funds to do nice things for their community and not to supplement the County budget, so I just want to make sure that that's the message that goes back. It's been a long time, it's been several years now, and I just want to make sure that that intent doesn't get lost in the shuffle and that in fact we want to hold the county accountable to what they supposed to be doing and the CIP projects. Bruce, I'm not talking about the Kekaha Gardens, I'm talking about road paving, bathrooms you know' those things are for the county to do. This would be more of just making Kekaha a much better community to live in and you have those resources available in the Host Community Benefit and I'm hoping that that intent remains not just another account that we can go and do county spending, that's not what the intent was anyway. Mr. Pleas: What the moneys will be spent on is what the community wants it spent on. The ones that come in and submit the forms and go through the process is what it's going to be spent on. The CAC at this point does not have access for a system so that we can record our meetings and have that available at the Neighborhood Center so anybody can listen to what happened at the meeting. Besides that it's the community that comes in and presents for the RFP or the grant process and that's the one where it's going to go, then it will go to the Mayor, and the Mayor is going to come to you. If the Council decides that the community shouldn't spend it on CIP projects, that's up to the Council but then you'll have to explain that to the community. The community is the one that's going to say where this money is going. Mr. Rapozo: Understood. Mr. Pleas: Good and that's... as long as I'm chair, that's where it's going. I may not agree with where it's going but that's fine with me, if they're coming and dot their I's, crosses their t's, it's going. Mr. Rapozo: That's how it needs to be and I'm just... just want to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to participate in that process, that any organization in Kekaha has the opportunity to get a packet and not just because they had to go to a meeting or they had to participate... it's just... it's almost like a Ho`olokahi program specifically for Kekaha. The only difference is Ho`olokahi is five thousand, your project has a lot of money in it, and you can service a lot of programs and services for our kids and for our elderly and a lot of good things can come out of this money, rather than spend it on one (1) big CIP project. That's all I have, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Bruce, first of all I really want to thank you for stepping up but I do need to clarify a couple items here so that we all know that appropriate documentation; for example, whatever comes on your list as a recommendation to the Council, I can assure you that the type o£.. the Council funded this extra money so that we can come up with a good list so I think there is a true intent to use this CAC money for what your community wants. The other one I want to make sure is, within our accounting practices, you actually get park funds by district and that district is based on you know future improvements and so forth within your community so that's not an arbitrary number. And then in good 18 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 practices, accounting practices, I want to make sure you understand, I don't see the CAC money being used for repair and maintenance for long term because when we make the improvement in the Kekaha town, the reality is the improvement, the physical improvement goes on our books as an asset but the repair and maintenance is then mutually beneficial for us because if a bath house is operating or a bike path is operating and it's well cared for, and it's repaired that asset stays on our books. So I don't want the Committee to think, okay and then we're going to have this long term and maintenance, that's not part of your funds, that should be absorbed as the county maintaining the asset that you wanted us to improve on. I just wanted to clarify that. Mr. Pleas: May I say something on that? Chair Furfaro: Sure. Mr. Pleas: But that still going to come from the community. I'm open... if these groups want to come in and go ahead and if they want to write in to their RFP or their proposal that they will maintain this for ten or fifteen years, I think we should entertain that. The County is the people of Kauai and these are the people of Kekaha and... Chair Furfaro: Well I appreciate. Mr. Pleas: And if they want to do it, it's up to them. Chair Furfaro: I appreciate what you say Bruce but let me tell you, that's how the accounting principle is taken and let me tell you one (1) thing about volunteers, you don't fire them, they just quit. Mr. Pleas: They just don't show up. Chair Furfaro: (inaudible) still there and you still got to have it maintained. Mr. Pleas: Yeah and at that point... Chair Furfaro: So I just want to share with you the accountability, I mean I know Mr. Mickens used to work on the repair and maintenance at Lydgate and at some point, he quit. The repair and maintenance still have to occur and I didn't want you to restrict the scope of your project thinking oh now we have to worry about the repair and maintenance. We get the asset on our books, we have to carry maintenance for that facility and again I have no more... Bruce, I'm really pleased that you stepped forward to being the Chairman; I think you folks are doing an outstanding job. If there are no more questions, I'll open it up to the public comments at this point. Thank you very much. Is there anyone in the public that wishes to speak? Alice, I'll go to you first, Glenn, you can go seconded. (Inaudible) Chair Furfaro: No, no... you come right up and then we'll go to Glenn. 19 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 ALICE PARKER: Alice Parker for the record. Good morning. In listening to the presentations, I'm really pleased that Kekaha is going to get benefit from the negative side of hosting the landfill all this time. What I would suggest for notifying the public is, Bruce has a good idea with the blow horns, just hit every street because people do listen to that and also people often are in a hurry and have other things and they are not going to read the notices necessarily. I would suggest artistic posters and large print in shops and things in window front so the public know that they have access and that their input is valuable. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. GLENN MICKENS: Thank you Jay. For the record Glenn Mickens. You have a copy of my testimony. First I just want to say I completely agree with what Mel is saying, we got a project here and it should be taken care of by the County. You know don't be taking away money from that fund that they have to do as what they please. I also a hundred percent agree with Jay, his suggestion to these people and again it's their choice, no one else, his suggestion about putting this money into a bond or a income revenue type of a fund perpetuating whatever they want to do rather than blow it on one (1) or two (2) different projects and it's gone. I think that's a great idea but again you know that's a community what they want to vote on but my testimony as Lani Nakazawa said at a previous meeting I hope we learned our lesson from spending ninety -five thousand dollars on a consultant that we literally got nothing for our money, and I know that was brought up now. From what I understand, the new consultant hasn't yet been chosen for this job so hopefully a new MO will be in place to give the community people of Kekaha the final choice of who they want and the appropriated money will serve its purpose. I was told that they made some specific suggestions at their meeting held on Monday night. I hope those suggestions are firmly incorporated into the process of selecting a new facilitator to work with them to attain their priorities as they see fit. The entire island is looking at how the County is handling the arrangements of letting the community decide what it wants to do with that grant which was allocated to the community. In my opinion this total program should be a democratic process completely administered by the Kekaha community. They are the recipients of this grant or gift or whatever it is called and except for informational purposes the county should not be involved in directing where the money will go. If I won a lottery I sure wouldn't want the government or anyone else telling me what I have to do with the money except for paying the taxes on it. So again the two (2) points that you bought up Jay and the other one that Mel brought up, I thought there were excellent things. Again the money that's there, whatever moneys, it is and a lot can be done with it, it is a lot of money. I just hope the money will be spent as the community wants. Looking at the chart it didn't appear from that five projects that there were five hundred to some people were quiz and I think a couple of them had a hundred or some people that reacted to it so I'm hoping that the community will be much better notified so they can all be really involved. Anyway my friend Bruce and Jose, I'm sure they will do a tremendous job down there. Thank you. 20 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Any questions for Glenn? Thank you Glenn, thank you very much. Is there anyone else in the public that... Jose? Mr. Bulatao. JOSE BULATAO: Good morning. My name is Jose Bulatao Jr., and I am here right now as a resident of Kekaha, I want to make that clear. Listening to what's been presented I need to respond as a Kekaha resident with these following points and observations for a personal point of view. At public occasions I frequently introduced myself as the resident dinosaur of Kekaha. I am seventy -four (74) years old, I have lived at the same house for seventy -three (73) of those seventy -four (74) years in Kekaha and as such I have had a bird's eye view of what goes on in my home town. As a matter of fact this afternoon I will be going home to meet with fellow community residents to focus upon concerns and issues that we as community residents of Kekaha will be confronting. As Beth pointed out the work of the CAC has been quite challenging and she made a fantastic account historically of what has occurred. The questions that have been raised by the Councilmembers in regard to that background and that history have been so relevant and so important but these are the things I would like you to remember, whatever the amount is allocated to the CAC the bottom line is this, everything that is done from the public domain or for the volunteer efforts coming from the private sector, everything that is being done must focus on what would be to the highest benefit of the Kekaha residents because we are so privileged to have an allocation of public funding come to the community for us to determine how can this be best expended from the point of view of the community residents. Whether its formal or informal for instances, we have taken the time to survey the children of our community because they will be the ones who will realize the benefits of whatever we decide how that money should be spent and it was fascinating for us to see what the children expressed about their vision... Mr. Nakamura: Three (3) minutes Mr. Chair. Mr. Bulatao: Their expectations, their desires and yet perhaps from another point of view we may consider this to be invalid because they are children and we were told that in one point in time that when we do a survey as a for instance that they were specificities about who could respond to those surveys. So we need to think outside the box from time to time to address what are we doing, how are we going to accomplish what we are doing and I want you to know that those of us from the private sector along with those who have represented the public sector may not have agreed on everything that was placed before us but in the process we are all trying to meet that final need that whatever was accomplished will be for the best and highest interest of the community residents. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Jose if you could hold on for one minute, extended both of your three (3) minutes but Mr. Rapozo has a question for you. Mr. Bulatao: Alright. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Mr. B for being here today. You know you've been there all your life in Kekaha. Mr. Bulatao: Just about. Mr. Rapozo: Yeah. Where were you before that? COUNCIL MEETING Mr. Bulatao: 21 Koloa where I was born. FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Rapozo: Yeah, okay. What is your opinion on the best way to get to everyone, including the children because I agree with you, I think they play a vital role in how this money should be spent, what's the best way in Kekaha... I like the blow horn idea but you know like for my family unless they coming at night with the blow horn which you would have people calling the cops, we wouldn't hear it because we all work so... what's in your opinion, what's the best... Mr. Bulatao: Simplicity, the coconut wireless, it's who you know. Mr. Rapozo: That didn't work too well the last time because there were a lot of people that did not get the message so. Mr. Bulatao: Right. Mr. Rapozo: I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to get everyone included. Mr. Bulatao: Although they, you know it's so difficult to get everybody to know what's going on and you can send out the blow horn and you can coconut wireless and you can email, and you can use the telephone and all of that and many of times a lot of people will not show up because the (inaudible) majority precise this is a reality of life, anywhere and everywhere but they sure can talk but nobody's around to listen. And they rely on people like me as a for instance to do all the talking for them, I scold a lot, people who know me know what I mean of that. Mr. Rapozo: Yeah I do. Mr. Bulatao: Because you were one of my former students. Mr. Rapozo: That's right. One last question, are you on the CAC now, are you a member of the CAC? Mr. Bulatao: I will be until such time when I have already indicated my desire to be excused, age has its privileges. Mr. Rapozo: Okay, so you're not going to be on the CAC. Mr. Bulatao: I've decided to stay a little while longer to try to come to some resolution which I hope will, could be completed more towards the six (6) months rather than the twelve (12). Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much Mr. Bulatao. Is there anyone else in the... on the table that has questions for Jose or anyone in the audience who wishes to speak? If now, I will call the meeting back to order. 22 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Chair Furfaro: It is the hope of and intent of the Council as we had this discussion we can continue discussion amongst ourselves but I hope to receive this item and wish the CAC the very best in their continued activity. Is there anymore discussion here Mr. Chang? Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair, I just want to thank everybody for coming this morning and thank the CAC members. Mr. Bulatao said he was going to stay awhile and I do understand that Glenn Molander would be leaving soon, so I'm sure we've got some qualified people within the neighborhood that would like to step in and fill in the shoes but I do want to take this opportunity to thank Bruce Pleas. Bruce, we know you understand the process and we want to thank you. I hear very, very, very good positive things about the directions and we say that seriously because if you want to plan to do two (2) meetings a month, we're fast tracking, we want to make sure it's for the benefit of Kekaha; we want to get that moving. I do want to thank, I believe prior to you it was Randy Hee, so I want to make sure that we share our aloha to Randy Hee and I do understand that Mr. Thomas Nizo stepped in place, well known out there in the Westside in Kekaha and I understand he's already been very, very proactive. So I just wanted to share our aloha, our, to Mr. Randy Hee and thank you to Mr. Glenn Molander and of course to Jose Bulatao, he mentioned and introduced himself as a resident of Kekaha but he is the active Vice Chair at this time. Special aloha out and special aloha out to Glenn Molander also, thank you Chair. Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Mr. Chair when I recognized you I was hoping you were making a motion to receive and then we can get a seconded. Mr. Chang: Oh I beg your pardon. Chair Furfaro: Oh we have one already? Oh I'm asleep at the switch, we evidently already have that motion, so you were fine. Mr. Kawakami. Mr. Kawakami: Thank you Mr. Chair. I think we identified a big challenge that we all face with as far as decision making. A good question was posed as to what is the most effective way to get the word out and I think that's something that we're challenged with all the time but the relatively and I think the CAC is going to find out, that a very relatively small percentage of people are going to actually show up even if they know that this is on the agenda and the complaints will come after the decision making is done and this is evident by looking at how many registered voters actually turn out to vote and yet how many complaints we have as to the inefficiencies or shortcomings of our elected officials. So it poses the fundamental question and I don't know if there's an answer as to what's the best way to get the message out, I think we need to ask how do we entice people to attend these meetings, and how can we get creative with that? And you know KIUC became criticized a lot for having all the extravagant ceremonial purposes of their annual meeting, but there was a purpose for that and that was actually mandated by NRACA because in some rural communities they're faced with the same challenges is how do you get members of the public to come out. So for CAC members if you guys are looking for more community involvement, I think you need to somehow get more creative as to answering that question, okay what can we provide that will get people interested and I know for us and it may sound silly but 23 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 it's usually food. I mean I agree with you guys, you know the community, this is your chance to take the ball and get rolling with this project but that seems to be a big challenge. If we're trying to find out how we can get more involvement, I think you guys need to ask that question and have some kind of idea. Mahalo Mr. Chair. . Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Kawakami. Is there anyone else before I call for the vote? The motion to receive C 2011 -55 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: We can go to the next item Mr. Clerk. Mr. Nakamura: On page one (1) of the Council's agenda; we're on items for receipt, communication C 2011 -56 and communication C 2011 -57. C 2011 -56 Communication (1/14/2011) from the Director of Finance, transmitting for Council information, the Period 1 -5 Financial Reports — Statement of Revenues as of November 30, 2010, pursuant to Section 21 of the Operating Budget Ordinance (B- 2010 -705): Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -56 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2011 -57 Communication (1/3/2011) from the Chief of the Building Division, Department of Public Works, transmitting for Council information, the Building Permit Information Reports for December 2010: (1) Building Permit Processing Report (2) Building Permit Estimated Value Summary (3) Building Permits Tracking Report (4) Building Permits Status Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -57 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.. Chair Furfaro: We'll go to the next page. Mr. Nakamura: On page two (2) of the Council's agenda, an item for receipt is C 2011 -58. C 2011 -58 Communication (1/21/2011) from the Mayor, transmitting for Council consideration and confirmation the following appointees to the various Boards and Commissions for the County of Kauai: (1) Civil Service Commission John Low — term ending 12/31/2013 (2) Planning Commission Wayne Katayama — term ending 12/31/2013 Herman Texeira — term ending 12/31/2013 Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -58 for the record, seconded by Mr. Bynum. Chair Furfaro: Can I extend that motion by asking to schedule those interviews? Mr. Rapozo: Sure I can make a motion to receive, have the interviews been? Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo: 24 FEBRUARY 9, 2011 LM Okay, with interviews to follow. Chair Furfaro: That's what I'm asking. Thank you. Is there anyone that would like to speak on this? If not, all those in favor to receive this item with scheduling interviews? The motion to receive C 2011 -58 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk. Mr. Nakamura: Next matter for receipt is communication C 2011 -59. C 2011 -59 Communication (1/18/2010) from the County Auditor, transmitting for Council information a memorandum stating that he will be engaging consultant services which will be paid from the FY 2010 -2011 Office of the County Auditor's Consultant Services allocation at an estimated cost of approximately $25,000.00. The consultant will perform investigations of fraud, illegal acts, violations or provisions or contracts or grant agreements, or abuse reported or discovered during audits, starting with performance audits and pre - audits included in the FY 2010 -2011 Audit Work Plan: Mr. Bynum moved to receive C 2011 -59, seconded by Mr. Rapozo. Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to speak on this? Mr. Mickens. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Mr. Mickens: Thank you again Jay. For the record Glenn Mickens. You have a copy of my testimony, it's short. Please let me read it for the record. Since our Auditor has this twenty -five thousand dollars in his budget I hope that there will be no problem in the Council's receiving it. I only say this since I have watched Ernie quizzed so many times about the ninety thousand dollars he needed for an Audit Analyst and a clerical person to get his office up and running. Ninety thousand that the administration cut from his budget or he wouldn't have needed the money bill. In my opinion Ernie has gone above and beyond his mandate to be our Auditor. He has gotten information from other island auditors about the way they conduct their offices, including the office of the best in the state, Marion Higa. I am hopeful that the waste and inefficiency he finds in the operation of our government will more than pay for what he and his staff are being paid. Remember that seven (7) or eight (8) years ago our Council appropriated five hundred thousand dollars for a performance audit and for lack of four (4) votes it was never done. Now that we have an auditor, hopefully this type of inaction will never happen again and I have every confidence that with Ernie at the helm the job will get done. Thank you Jay. 25 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Any questions of Mr. Mickens? Seeing none, thank you Glenn. Is there anyone else in the audience that wants to speak on this item? If not, I'm going to call the meeting back to order. There being no one else to speak on this matter, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Chair Furfaro: Members, I am looking for the appropriate motion to receive this? We have a motion, okay. And is there any discussion on this item from members? If not, we have a motion and a seconded, all those in favor? The motion to receive C 2011 -59 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk. Mr. Nakamura: Next matter for receipt is communication C 2011 -60. C 2011 -60 Communication (1/24/2011) from Councilmember Kawakami, transmitting for Council consideration an amendment to Chapter 23 of the Kauai County Code 1987, as amended, relating to Regulation of Business and Trades, specifically to Sec. 23 -3.4 that pertain to The Sunshine Market: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -60 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura. Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to speak on this item? I'll suspend the rules, Ken come right on up. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. KEN TAYLOR: Good morning Chair, members of the Council, my name is Ken Taylor. While I'm not opposed to value added items at the market, I do have some concerns as to why this is being done. Before, people that have eggs, quail eggs, or honey are not being allowed at the markets and I think that this is the time with this amendment to Sunshine Markets that eggs, quail eggs and honey should also be added, as well as value added. As far as further the last paragraph of section (b) of the first page where definition, I think it should also require value added products shall contain not less than fifty percent of raw egg ingredients, commodities or ingredients. The way I read this as it is written, if I make a cake and throw a few nuts from my tree in there, it could be a value added product and so I would say value added has to be at least fifty percent ingredients and not less than that, maybe even more but not less than fifty percent. On page three (3) of the document item number seven (7) where it talks about insurance and I think in the second line, second or third line where one million dollars naming the County of Kauai as additional insured party of the policy and with the thirty day cancelation notice so that again as this is written, I can take out an insurance policy and cancel it after thirty days and next year just before I have to renew my permit, I can go and get another policy and come back with a thirty day cancelation notice. The insurance company if I go into and cancel my insurance, the insurance company has to give you a thirty day notice before they can cut the insurance and I think that's a very important part of this aspect so those are my comments. I do hope that you'll add eggs, quail eggs and honey because we do have producers on the 26 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 island that produce those products and currently as I understand it, they cannot sell at the market. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Any questions for Ken? No, thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak on this matter? For a moment I see two (2) County Attorneys in the office, I just want to reconfirm the process of co- insurance for vendors, can Mauna Kea come up for just a second? MAUNA YEA TRASK: Aloha Chair, Deputy County Attorney Mauna Kea Trask. Chair Furfaro: I just want to clarify for our policy on co- insured, would we have somebody that identifies that county for whatever purpose is being co- insured when they pay the sub premium it's really to add them to their existing insurance policy naming us coinsured, we keep those in file and then if they terminate their insurance the insurance company is required to immediately notify us, is that? Mr. Trask: It's my understanding, correct. Chair Furfaro: Could we make sure we get some clarification on that? Mr. Trask: I will. Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that wants to? No. Okay I'll call this meeting back to order. There being no one else to speak on this matter, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: The motion to receive C 2011 -60 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: I would like to see a show of hands of how many are here for the next item which is a draft of the plastic bill amendment, if you don't mind then, we're going to need to take a ten (10) minute recess, when we come back I'd like to take the one (1) item for Po`ipu Beach and then we'll go right to your item. We're on a ten (10) minute recess, thank you very much. There being no objections, the Council recessed at 10:45 a.m. The Council reconvened at 10:57 a.m., and proceeded as follows: Chair Furfaro: read the first item? We're back from recess, Mr. Clerk can you Mr. Nakamura: Mr. Chair, we're on page two (2) of the Council's agenda on communication C 2011 -63. C 2011 -63 Communication (1/13/2011) from the Director of the Office of Economic Development, requesting Council approval to receive and expend $50,000.00 from the Po`ipu Beach Foundation Inc., The funding was raised by its 27 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 members to help fund the Po`ipu Beach Restoration Study for Po`ipu Beach Park and will be used by the County to help satisfy the requirements to the Hawaii Tourism Authority (HTA) Grant, additional required funding will come from the Department of Parks and Recreation: Mr. Rapozo moved to approve C 2011 -63, seconded by Ms. Yukimura. Chair Furfaro: On that note ladies I'm going to suspend the rules so you can have the floor, please introduce yourself starting now. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. NALANI BRUN: My name is Nalani Brun, I'm from the Office of Economic Development, the Tourism Specialist and we're actually here today regarding a project that we're doing out at Po`ipu which is basically studying the Po`ipu area and why were we losing sand in some areas. We had safety issues among other things and so the County see fit to that this was an important project that we needed to fix up, this was quite awhile ago. When the funding came before the Council, the Council asked could you look for partners every so often and I'm happy to say that we actually did find wonderful partners, we usually do in Po`ipu, the Po`ipu Beach Foundation, they came up with funding of fifty thousand and the Hawaii Tourism also came up with another seventy -five thousand for this large study that we're doing that is lasting about a year, it started last October and will go to about the end of this year. This is Jody from the Po`ipu Beach Foundation and Beach Resort Association. JODY KJELDSEN: Jody Kjeldsen, Po`ipu Beach Resort Association and Foundation and I'm just here to, I want to acknowledge the Council and the Office of Economic Development and Parks and Recreation for making beach nourishment in Po`ipu a priority. It's a vital component to our visitor industry there, as well as to our resident community, and I also wanted to make note that we did raise the fifty thousand dollars as requested by the County and this in large part came from Stacy Wong and the Knudsen Trust and the Knudsen family. We were a little daunted by the task of raising fifty thousand dollars initially and Stacy Wong and the Trust came forward and said that they would donate twenty -five thousand dollars to this project if our members and the rest of the community came up with matching funds in the amount of twenty -five and they did. Between the business community as well as the resident community, they made up the additional twenty -five thousand. So I did want to acknowledge not only the members of the South shore but Stacy Wong and the Knudsen Trust and Knudsen Family. He was here but had to leave. Chair Furfaro: May I ask Jody the relationship between Po`ipu Beach Resort Association and the Po`ipu Foundation, is the Resort Association members of the foundation? Ms. Kjeldsen: The Po`ipu Beach Foundation is a member of the Association... Well they're two (2) separate entities, one is a 501c3 and the Association is 501c6, so one is corporate and one is non - profit. Chair Furfaro: But either are members of the same? Ms. Kjeldsen: Yes. So I represent both. 28 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Members, any questions on upcoming contribution? Mr. Chang then Mr. Bynum. Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair. Can you give us status of the sandbar? Ms. Kjeldsen: The sandbar is still currently there. The beach nourishment comes in three (3) phases and the first phase was to place four hundred and ninety -nine cubic yards of sand on the beach and that will happen end of... or by May 1 we believe and that should help until we figure out what should be in the long run. Mr. Chang: I just wanted to comment because it was gone for a long time and the currents were really, really treacherous. It was something very different from what we saw in Po`ipu because everything started to drag very treacherously toward the Marriott, so I know that there was a strong current. So I'm happy that that's back and I just want to thank you all for your persistency because I remember during my first term a few months later I went with our Public Works Chair Tim Bynum and I was all go -go we get um, and the dates kept going from here, from here, from here and Councilmember Bynum actually pat me on the shoulder and said I appreciate your enthusiasm but sometimes things take a little bit longer than expected. So hearing May 1 is really a good date to once again circle and hopefully sooner than later and I hope we can stick to that target but congratulations and thank you for being persistent. I did know that you were waiting for .Stacy Wong, he came in, and Mr. Wong had to leave but thank you for acknowledging the Knudsen Trust and thank you to all your partners for making this a reality and we look forward to once again revisiting Po`ipu Beach, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: Hi Nalani, hi Jody thanks for coming here. It's good news and thank you very much to the Po`ipu Beach Resort Association and the Knudsen Trust for stepping up with fifty thousand dollars and but there's the Po`ipu Beach Resort Association has also contributed other funds towards this project, could you kind of give me a little synopsis of that? Ms. Kjeldsen: Sure. As mentioned earlier, this project has three (3) phases. The first phase which is the four hundred and ninety -nine cubic yards of sand, we were asked by the County to partner in a way of assisting with the washing and sifting of the sand and I think that it came in the amount about twelve thousand dollars and that was not paid for a fundraiser, that was directly from the Po`ipu Beach Foundation. Mr. Bynum: Thank you for that. I'm going to have some comments when we call the meeting back to order because this has been a long haul and just for the people in the public to understand what the steps are and where we go next and why, why we're doing this. Why are we doing this study but I'll save those comments. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura. 29 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: What a great example of teamwork and partnerships, County, Po`ipu Beach Resort Association Foundation Developers like Knudsen Trust and Parks and Recreations, that's great. I'm sorry, you said there were three (3) phases one was the four hundred ninety -nine thousand cubic yards replenishment that is like a holding action until you figure out the cause or... Ms. Kjeldsen: It's like a band aid until we figure out what we should do in a long run. Ms. Yukimura: Like a band aid, okay. And then there was sifting /washing of the sands before you put it on? Ms. Kjeldsen: Right and that the sand that will be placed before March 1. Ms. Yukimura: Okay and then the other phase is the other phase is the one that you're funding in terms of a study to try to actually find a long term solution to the problem by identifying the cause? Ms. Kjeldsen: Right. We have another six thousand square, six thousand cubic yards of sand available to us, so that would be phase two (2) and what we would do with that amount of sand is to help nourish the beach in Po`ipu. Phase three (3) is really what this money is going towards, the fifty thousand dollars is going towards the long term study. Ms. Yukimura: I'm sorry, what was the last phase? Ms. Kjeldsen: The fifty thousand dollars is going towards the long term study of the area, the shoreline between Brennecke's and the Sheraton to figure out one (1) where the sand is going, how it can be replenished, and also to look for other sources of sand particularly sources off shore. Ms. Yukimura: Right, because in Waikiki they did quite an exemplary project where they took the sands from under the waters and pumped it on to the shoreline which was much more cost effective I think. Ms. Kjeldsen: Absolutely. Ms. Yukimura: Than trucking it from miles by land. Ms. Kjeldsen: And for the health of the beach, it's probably a better choice as well. Ms. Yukimura: I see because the sand is similar in... okay thank you very much for the explanation. Chair Furfaro: One of the things that you should know about Waikiki though, Councilwoman, is the sand in the winter that comes off shore at Waikiki actually comes from Molokai, it crosses the channel. Ms. Yukimura: Really. 30 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: And that's why there's a piece in the winter time from the North western coast. I know that from being a hotel manager in Waikiki in Sheraton and also being the manager of Sheraton Molokai. Ms. Yukimura: Ah, nature is amazing. Chair Furfaro: Nature is amazing. Thank you. Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I was going to save comments for when we call the meeting back to order. Chair Furfaro: Okay, he's going to save comments after the meeting. Ladies thank you very much; we also want to thank any other contributors that are encouraged by this next step in design and action. So thank you very much. Is there anybody in the audience who would want to speak while the rules are suspended? Hearing none, I'll call the meeting back to order. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Chair Furfaro: Anyone have any further comments? Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: This is a project that's been in the making for a very long time and so I'm going to kind of go into fast forward mode because I want anybody in the public who's paying attention to this to have some sense of history of this. Beaches are our economic engine and if you think about Po`ipu Beach, it's an awesome beach, we all love going there... there's really not much beach at Po`ipu Beach and it has experienced a lot of erosion over the last ten (10) years. I have some very dramatic pictures of the boardwalk right after it was built in front of Kiahuna and then what it looked like just eight (8) or ten (10) years later. That boardwalk has been removed because of erosion. I just want to do a brief thing about this history and say where we are going and it is a great public /private partnership so far. The... years ago the State donated twenty -five thousand cubic yards of sand to the county, was stock piled in Kekaha for the intent of recreation and beach nourishment. Sat there for a very long time and Po`ipu Beach Resort Association has had a sand committee for many years now because they know that that's the economic engine and we have to protect the beach. Sand was set aside, then a couple of years ago Public Works announced that they were going to move the sand to Wailua and that got the attention of the Po`ipu Beach Resort Association saying hey we're supposed to do beach nourishment with that sand and there was some pilot projects to do that. We found that that sand had a tendency to cake up that's why it's necessary to wash it and make sure that it's appropriate for beach nourishment, and thanks for stepping up with funds to do that. Even though that twenty -five thousand cubic yard... we learned that sand is a very valuable commodity, that most of that sand is going to be used in the Kekaha landfill expansion even though the executive order from the State said that is was for recreation, and Po`ipu Beach Resort Association and some Councilmembers were saying wait that wasn't the intention, and so we have reserved seven thousand cubic yards to make sure that that was for that purpose and it's been a long haul as it is from Kekaha. You know and then it comes into the planning issues, you know this Council passed a landmark bill to make sure that future development has set back adequately from the coastline because the best thing to do is to let nature take 31 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 its course in the ocean front but human beings like to build their buildings really close to the shoreline and in Po`ipu we have very valuable resorts that are very close to the shoreline. If we had to do it all over again we would probably set them back further but so then what is that choices leave us when the sea starts to encroach which is a naturally occurring process which may be accelerating by global warming, that's a controversial thing... but you know what are the choices that we have left? Often the choices have been well these buildings are too valuable so we harden the shoreline and in the process lose the beach or we can abandon those buildings and move them back and for economic reasons that's probably not going to happen and so not the best choice but a choice is beach nourishment. The idea of bringing sand and keeping the beach sandy and as a strong buffer and to protect those buildings, it's not a perfect solution. As I said this Council has the wisdom to say future development has to be set back further but it is the best solution especially when the ocean and the beach is your economic engine. In Florida, in the Gulf Coast beach nourishment... Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Mr. Bynum on that note I need to point out something to you and hope you can summarize... the agenda item here is the funding for... and the design for them... if you could... if you could... I understand your willingness to go through the history but if you start making other comparison with coastal towns and so forth, we can put a new agenda item on the floor if you would like. I would like to make certain that we're staying close to the funding issue. That's the agenda item. And those are the rules, just speaking with you folks as those are the rules. Mr. Bynum: This is to fund... Chair Furfaro: You know we... Excuse me, I have the floor. Mr. Bynum: I think you took that floor. Chair Furfaro: Because of the error we have here. Now I'm asking if you could summarize a little bit more and I would appreciate it. Mr. Bynum: I'll continue. We were talking about a funding proposal to do a study on beach nourishment, I'm talking about beach nourishment so the point I was trying to make is beach nourishment is essential for the State of Hawaii. It's being done at Waikiki, obviously the premier beach in terms of economic engine and another premier beach for... is Po`ipu Beach and so what this study does is to look at the off shore sand resources of the sand that came from that area that we know that will be compatible to look at where that sand is available so rather than trucking it for miles and having to wash it and go through all of this process, that we can set up an apparatus that pumps that sand back onto the beach where it came from in the beginning and it's expansive but when you set up that apparatus you can move very large volumes of sand and not too long sense of a time. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura, I'm going to turn the meeting over to you. Chair Furfaro relinquished his Chairmanship over to Council Vice Chair Yukimura. 32 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Bynum: So this has been a long time coming and it's going to take a while to get there, but imagine Po`ipu Beach with no beach because that's possible. We know that the erosion causes the tombola there which is that sand bridge out to Nukumoi point, I think it is right... you know that when that went away our lifeguard started having rescues in different areas and it really was a safety factor too so economic security for our visitor industry, safety for our residents and visitors who use the ocean and a storm (inaudible) that keeps us from going to more dramatic things like seawalls which we know cause a degradation of the natural processes so I am thrilled, I've been trying to promote this idea of doing this study for at least five (5) years and to bring it to the point where the contract is out, the study is going to be started soon and it will give us the day that we know to be good stewards of the ocean to address our economic realities and our needs to protect the coastline and to do that in a way that's environmentally sound and appropriate. So I'm very much appreciate the partnership of the visitor industry in this endeavor, it's a win -win situation for the community and for the environment and for... and you know I guess a more radical position would be well let's just get rid of the resorts, I don't think that's going to happen on our political climate, so beach nourishment is the best option that we have in my opinion. Thank you very much. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Councilmember. Any other discussion on this matter? If not, I believe there a motion... Mr. Nakamura: There is a motion Vice Chair to approve. Ms. Yukimura: To approve and a seconded, so if there's no further discussion all those in favor. The motion to approve C 2011 -63 was then put, and unanimously carried. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much Jody, Nalani and all of those who were involved. Next item please. Mr. Nakamura: At this time Vice Chair, we're on page two (2) of the Council's agenda on communication for receipt communication C 2011 -61. C 2011 -61 Communication (1/24/2011) from Councilmember Rapozo, transmitting for Council consideration an amendment to Article 19, Chapter 22 of the Kauai County Code 1987, as amended, relating to Plastic Bag Reduction: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -61 for the record, seconded by Chang. Mr. Kawakami was noted as recused from this item. Council Vice Chair Yukimura returned the gavel to Chair Furfaro. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. So I assume Mr. Kawakami recused himself. Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Chair Furfaro: You'll be providing us something in writing? Mr. Kawakami: Yes. 33 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Okay, thank you. So we have read the bill? Ms. Yukimura: We have read the communication, we're not on the bill, we're on the communication but I think it was your intention Chair to allow testimony? Chair Furfaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: On the communication. Chair Furfaro: That's correct because there are people that need to get back to work. On that note I'm going to suspend the rules for the purpose of taking testimony. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Chair Furfaro: I believe Martina, Chef if you would like to come up first? For the rest of you the Clerk will read your names as you signed up. MARTINA HILLDORFOR: Good morning Honorable Chair, Councilmembers, my name is Chef Martina Hilldorfor. I am an assistant professor at the University of Hawaii, Kauai Community College Culinary Arts Program, I am its program coordinator. I am a certified instructor proctor for a recognized sanitation class; nationally recognized sanitation class called Serve Safe. I also represent all the members of the American Culinary Federation Kauai Chapter. This a Nationally recognized association of Chefs in the. United States. I have been in the past an Executive Chef for Starwood Hotel and Resorts. I too, sir, served in Molokai. My experience with the restaurant industry is well documented. I would like to see this bill banning the use of plastic bags to be amended to exclude food service establishments for sanitation reasons. As Chefs dealing with takeout food, we encourage the use of single use plastic or corn based products, single use cups, single use silverware, single use platters, etc... it would be okay to use a biodegradable compostable, corn or bagasse or potato base plastic bag with a minimum of petroleum base product in there. So therefore I believe the Council should seriously consider this amendment for the safety of the people of Kauai. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Chef, we have questions for you. Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Chef for being here today. Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you. Mr. Rapozo: I have not spoken to you prior to this... Ms. Hilldorfor: No sir. 34 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I didn't realize that you had so many credentials in that area so I appreciate you coming by. You know one of the... because I gotten a lot of emails opposing the amendment and one of the common theme is really that I'm taking this County backwards and that in fact there is very little possibility of transfer of bacteria from a reusable bag even though the studies say they do. In your professional opinion because I will consider you an expert today. Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you sir. Mr. Rapozo: Is the potential of cross contamination real? Ms. Hilldorfor: Absolutely sir. I teach certified classes, I teach sanitation classes at the college. The first thing I teach my students is you must change your clothes every day, you will get food on your clothes at room temperature... we're in the danger zone. Bacteria love to live in this temperature. Bacteria need several things to exist... food, acidity, time, temperature, oxygen, moisture... they have already the food, they have the time and temperature; therefore, harmful pathogens, disease causing microorganisms can exist on cloth. They don't exist on stainless steel, they don't exist on plastic, there's no moisture there but they will exist on cloth. If my students leave their uniform or apron in the car overnight as many of the people of Kauai will leave their reusable bag in the car or in the kitchen or maybe even take them into a public restroom, there's ample opportunity for bacteria to contaminate food, the same with recycled cardboard boxes. There's no such thing as a bathroom for birds and geckos and as they fly through the air or walk across cardboard they will contaminate it with salmonella. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you very much. Ms. Hilldorfor: You're welcome. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Yes, thank you very much for being here. It's important of us to know this information that you have. You said it's okay to use... can you repeat that line again? Ms. Hilldorfor: A recyclable. Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Ms. Hilldorfor: Compostable, corn, bagassse, or potato based... you know organically based plastic bag with a minimum amount of petroleum polymers. Ms. Yukimura: Ms. Hilldorfor: paper. Ms. Yukimura: said that the sentence before. Okay. They degrade. They degrade faster than And what doesn't work is what? I think you 35 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Hilldorfor: A recyclable bag, a recyclable non - single use bag, especially a cloth bag. Ms. Yukimura: Okay and that's because you say cloth versus plastic or stainless steel allows bacteria... Ms. Hilldorfor: It will allow bacterial growth, yes. Ms. Yukimura: So that... Ms. Hilldorfor: That's why surgeons change clothes during surgery because they don't reuse the cloth, they wash it each time. I challenge anybody in this room to tell me that they wash their recycle bag after each use. Ms. Yukimura: Ms. Hilldorfor: Ms. Yukimura: Ms. Hilldorfor: Ms. Yukimura: Ms. Hilldorfor: Ms. Yukimura: Ms. Hilldorfor: Ms. Yukimura: when it's in such a container... No, I don't think that happens. Okay. So when the food is put into a bag. Yes. It's already in a Styrofoam. Yes it is. Or aluminum or plastic container. Yes. So what is the probability of contamination Ms. Hilldorfor: Let's go to lunch and we're going to order beef stew, we're going to order gi and we're going to order coconut curry, three (3) choice with rice, and we're going to close the lid of our Styrofoam container and we put it on the seat of our car or on the carpet of our car or in our recycle bag on the seat of our car, we're not level... all that liquid is going to run out of the Styrofoam container into the bag causing contamination. Ms. Yukimura: In the bag. Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: But. Ms. Hilldorfor: When you take the food out of the bag. Ms. Yukimura: Yeah. Ms. Hilldorfor: The germs remain in the bag, take that bag tomorrow to the plate lunch place, we order again, liquid comes out, you touch the liquid with your hands, you eat your lunch, and you're ingesting bacteria. 36 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukuimura: Okay. So it's in the touching of the bag that get's... Ms. Hilldorfor: And the contamination of the existing pathogens in the bag can return into the containers. Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Ms. Hilldorfor: And people are not cautious, nobody here has taken a serve safe class, nobody here has been trained in that. Most of the people in Kauai don't know that that sort of contamination exist and how to prevent it, that education hasn't been provided to them so they're unaware that that contamination J happening. Then they get a food borne illness or there's a food borne illness outbreak, is it their fault... absolutely not, it's the restaurant made me sick, the plate lunch made me sick. Not that I had a filthy dirty bag. Ms. Yukimura: And do you know... I mean... Ms. Hilldorfor: No, go please. I'm used to questions; I have a ton of students. Ms. Yukimura: Good, thank you. So what the probabilities or the statistics on food contaminated illnesses on Kauai? Ms. Hilldorfor: I have no knowledge of that at this time. I have not researched it. Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Alright thank you so much for being here. Ms. Hilldorfor: You're welcome. And please if you ever get a chance, you can always sit in in one of my classes, aloha. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Chef? Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes sir. Chair Furfaro: I have a question for you. In reality though bacteria exist in everything... I mean even the seats we sit on here, if I don't get the same seat, I'm getting somebody else's arm rest and somebody else's contaminants. Bacteria exist in the world. Ms. Hilldorfor: Germs are everywhere, they're even in the air we breathe; however, there are beneficial bacteria and harmful bacteria. These bacteria are known as pathogens and once again they need certain things to grow... food, time, temperature, oxygen, moisture. There's no moisture here, there's no moisture here... pathogens probably will not grow on this surface, there's no way for them to get a hold of things. In recyclable bag, you have the moisture of the food plus you have the time and temperature in the car, in the kitchen, etc... 37 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Ms. Hilldorfor: Chair Furfaro: science class... Ms. Hilldorfor: Chair Furfaro: Ms. Hilldorfor: I see. So that's where it grows. Understood. I mean I went to the same food That's right you did. Forty (40) year ago... It's still the same. Chair Furfaro: It's still the same, they haven't changed... I mean salmonella exist; you need to get food to a freezing point... Ms. Hilldorfor: Chair Furfaro: Ms. Hilldorfor: Chair Furfaro: Ms. Hilldorfor: Chair Furfaro: responsibilities of the food operation. Exactly. You need to get food to a boiling point. Right. You have to wash your cutting boards. Right. All of those... which are all of the Ms. Hilldorfor: Right, once it leaves the food service operation, however, that's why you have all the little signs on the chicken, watch the temperature, etc... Chair Furfaro: And I understand that but the reality is there are options, chicken curry can be put in a bowl with a lid. Ms. Hilldorfor: Ali. Chair Furfaro: Two (2) once gravy for roast pork can be put in a two (2) once cup. Ms. Hilldorfor: Absolutely. Chair Furfaro: I just wanted to say it's all of our responsibility but... Ms. Hilldorfor: Now you change your plate lunch from putting it in a three (3) compartment container to additional plastic containers that fill up the landfill. You put your chicken curry gravy in another plastic container that fills up the landfill and geeze as a restaurant owner, sir, isn't there another cost involved? Now do we pass that cost unto the consumer or do we absorb that cost for... 38 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: I don't think you want to challenge me on cost of food, cost of service utensils and so forth... Ms. Hilldorfor: Right. Chair Furfaro: What we're dealing with here is this question about cross contamination. Ms. Hilldorfor: Okay. Chair Furfaro: And I believe there are other ways, Chef, that we can take some precaution. Now it starts obviously with some question about what's going in our landfill, the conveniences versus the potential cross contamination and I have looked at some food statistics with the Health Department that indicate there is a very small risk but it's about educating the population and how to handle food service... no different than those wonderful students that you share with about the whole process with salmonella, people don't even know... you could actually come up with food poisoning as far as seventy -two (72) hours in advance because the bacteria depending on what the temperature was held, when it was last wiped, when the counter, the cutting board... you know it's all around a lot of information that's dealing with this. I appreciate your testimony. Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: But I want to say that I am very cautious about the concern that the reputation could damage a restaurant because it can. Ms. Hilldorfor: It can. Chair Furfaro: It can, I agree with that. Ms. Hilldorfor: And earlier in my statement I did say that the public did need to be educated in cross contamination. Chair Furfaro: I heard you clearly on that. Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you sir. Chair Furfaro: Is there anybody else have questions for Chef? Yes. Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair. Chef Hilldorfor, thank you for being here. Very interesting, you made reference to the reusable cloth bags. Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes. Mr. Chang: So now we have these reusable paper bags. Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes. Mr. Chang: Paper bags. 39 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes. Mr. Chang: Recyclable, excuse me... recyclable but you want to reuse them but they don't work, you cannot reuse them... so you mention the gravy and you know I'm glad you mentioned the car seat is this way or even if you put it on the floor there's a speed bump, pot hole what have you... but it does come out, especially with extra gravy on the rice or what have you... so the paper bag... can you explain to us because I've tried it and it's happened to me but it seems as those the gravy, the sauces, the shoyu you know it has this slimy or it's a little greasy or what have you but it seems that that breaks down the paper bags that we're using very, very quickly and I'm sure that when you talk about salmonella or bacteria that same effect is with a paper bag as it would be with a reusable... Ms. Hilldorfor: Well as a consumer if you see reusable on it you take it home you have gravy, juice, you have a little bit of grease. in there, you're going to reuse the bag, you might leave it on the counter let it dry out four (4), five (5) hours fold it up, the pathogens still exist and once again there is a direct cost to the restaurant owner, there's a huge cost to the restaurant owner to use those bags. Mr. Chang: Because I just wanted to state from my experience when the gravy or the juices or what have you moves around the corners of the bag seems to be the one that breaks the quickest. Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes. Mr. Chang: And I said it that I had an apple, I didn't throw an apple into the bag, I dropped it and it went right through. Ms. Hilldorfor: Right through, yes. Mr. Chang: And so for everybody you know, the weight of the apple is five (5) or six (6) or seven (7) or eight (8) times than a plate lunch. Ms. Hilldorfor: Right. Mr. Chang: And I've been told of horror stories... Ms. Hilldorfor: Yeah, you lose your plate lunch. Mr. Chang: And I think a lot of it has to do with in the old days that people remember the bags when we used to go to the grocery bags, we used to carry the bags this way. Ms. Hilldorfor: Yeah. Mr. Chang: And now we have makeshift handles and I think because the weight you know just because you're holding the handle and everything pushes down, that within minutes... breaks. Ms. Hilldorfor: Yeah breaks. And I'd hate to lose mine and JoAnn's sixteen dollars ($16.00) worth of plate lunch because of a wet paper bag. 40 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Chang: Ms. Hilldorfor: and Councilmembers, aloha. Chair Furfaro: Ms. Hilldorfor: Okay thank you. Thank you and thank you honorable Chair You're off to work? In a few minutes, I want to hear... Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker... Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura did you have another question of Chef? Ms. Yukimura: Just a comment to the Chef that by being here you have helped us do some public education and to sanitation, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Thank you Councilwoman. Who's the next speaker please? Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker is Pat Gegen followed by Cathy Shibuya. PAT GEGEN: Aloha and thank you Chair and Councilmembers for this opportunity to provide testimony on this amendment. For the record my name is Pat Gegen, I would like to thank the Chef also for coming up. I'm glad that our culinary students at the Pacific institute are getting a great education making sure that our working surfaces are clean back behind the scenes and that's great. I am philosophically opposed to change Ordinance No. 885 at anyway at this point in time because I feel that it is effective and meeting its purpose to moving Kauai from using fossil fuel based disposable products and moving us to be more aware of our environment and our impact on it. When draft bill 2321 was originally introduced, I supported it. It had a relatively loose definition of what compostable biodegradable was but I thought it was a step in the right direction after some clarification going through the hearing, there was change to include a solid compostable biodegradable bag that would have been available for any retailer to use, I supported that bill. Again I saw it as a step in the right direction, we're moving away from things that are going to be more harmful to the environment and better for us in the long term. The final bill that became an ordinance only after being deferred for additional research and legal review was only better in my mind, so I was very happy to support it when it became ordinance no. 885. It's very effective in meeting the first of the three R's... reduce. And you have to remember the intent of the bill is to help people start bringing their own bags. It wasn't just to displace the plastic with other things, if it was going to displace it; it was with something that was more environmentally friendly. At this point it will be a significant step backward; it would weaken the law and create more gray areas than currently in the ordinance if we adopt this new ordinance. The definition of biodegradable bag in the existing draft is too open to interpretation I feel and I feel that the definition of food service establishment is also too broad, I think it opens up too many gray areas as it's written to adopt it. Most folks on Kauai are making the behavioral change required to meet the requirements of 41 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 ordinance 885, I believe that it's very successful in meeting the purpose as described in section one (1). Well I do understand the arguments being made for changing this ordinance, which we just heard some. I do not feel that they justify the change. I have searched to find any compelling evidence regarding the potential for health, risk in reusable bags out there, searching endlessly looking for that and found nothing in the arguments to concern me greatly. I too have some training in pathogens, I'm an EMT, I understand especially blood borne pathogens how long they can live, those kinds of stuff. I do understand that. Arguments can be made by any retail establishment regarding why plastic bags with fossil fuel polymers are necessary but we have to remember, we are changing people habits. Change is not always comfortable or easy but again Kauaians are making this change with grace and proving that it is not as big as an issue as some protested to originally be. I have great respect for the folks who have these concerns and provide great culinary delights to us on a daily basis as my physique shows, I love eating but other municipalities have found other alternatives that are working and it would also meet our requirements. Please do not give up on this ordinance as it's written now especially since its been in effect for less than one (1) month, let's give it some time. I think the people of Kauai are innovative enough to find other alternatives. I humbly request that the Council look at the merits of what ordinance no. 885 intends to do in the findings and purpose section before making any changes to this ordinance. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: I have a question for you from Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: Thanks Pat for being here today and I appreciate the input. I just curious if you were able to because I did my research online as well and I found the study that was done by the Department of Solar Water Environment Science from the University of Arizona at Tucson and the School of Public Health from Loma Linda University of California, were you able to... that was a June 9, 2010... Mr. Gegen: Yes I did see that study and... Mr. Rapozo: That's not compelling evidence to you? Mr. Gegen: No it isn't. Mr. Rapozo: Really? Mr. Gegen: And again it isn't because some of the commentary that went along with that if you take a look kind of the same argument that Chair Furfaro is making, there is bacteria everywhere and I understand that there could be, there's potentially harmful things there but you know what, as I'm sure the Serve Safe students know if you do not wipe down your counters real clean before you start preparing another food after doing chicken or something, and get rid of that rag or at least disinfect it, next time you use that rag to wipe something else down, you're putting that same potential bacteria out there. So when we take a look at people's habits, I would bet I could go into eighty percent of the kitchens out there after somebody has cooked a meal and we would potentially find some potential harmful pathogens in that kitchen. Of course not any of our culinary arts students but in my kitchen probably. 42 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Rapozo: And I think we're talking about the consumer. Mr. Gegen: Yes. Mr. Rapozo: The risk is really and that's what their study found. Consumers almost never wash their bags. Large numbers of bacteria were found in every reusable bag but none in new bags or plastic bags. Mr. Gegen: Yep. Mr. Rapozo: Chloroform bacteria including ecoh were found in half of the bags tested and they tested eighty -four (84) bags. Bacteria were capable of growth when stored in the trucks of cars. A potential significant risk, potential significant risk of bacteria cross contamination exists from using reusable bags to carry groceries, and that doesn't concern you? Mr. Gegen: It doesn't for a couple of reasons, one the sampling size was relatively small, I don't have all the details on the rest of the you know, how much they found or exactly what kinds of bacteria because we are ingesting bacteria all the time. The other concern I have of course, it was the plastic council that funded that study. Mr. Rapozo: It was done by Universities. Mr. Gegen: Right. Mr. Rapozo: So. Mr. Gegen: And I do understand that and one point if I may real quick, there's concerns about the restaurants being liable after they have provided us with food, I would argue that that's... there's no more liability there than the county giving me a driver's license and me getting into a crash the next day. Mr. Rapozo: No. Mr. Gegen: I mean once I take possession of that, I am responsible or I feel I should be and I wish our litigation would reflect that in our society. Mr. Rapozo: Would you be supportive of a bag, a compostable bag that would break down in the landfill or in a composting tub as quick or quicker than paper? Mr. Gegen: I would be, that would be the lesser of evils o£.. Mr. Rapozo: And why would that be, I'm curious because I'm trying to be educated as well. Why would that be, if you had a plastic bag. Mr. Gegen: Yes. 43 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Rapozo: That broke down quicker than paper... Mr. Gegen: Yes. Mr. Rapozo: And you were able to compost and reuse it as fertilizer why would that be lesser of two (2) evils? Mr. Gegen: Well I'm going to go back to the actual 885 where it says we are also looking in trying to reduce the amount of fossil fuels being used and to make those in this point in time... which is the trouble we're having, it does require fossil fuel polymers. Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Mr. Gegen: To bind all of that. Mr. Rapozo: Right. Mr. Gegen: So to me the ideal is let's not keep using our fossil fuels to make things like plastic. Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Gegen: Okay. Especially if it's a single use. Mr. Rapozo: So your big issue is the fossil fuel component, not so much of anything else because if we can get this in a composting tub and it compost quicker and we can reuse the bag, that's not as important as your fossil fuels and that's not a trick question? Mr. Gegen: Right. Mr. Rapozo: I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from because it's... for me the priority and the whole intent of this amendment is food safety because I have read enough studies that say, there's a definite chance especially the way we operate here, our environment, our climate. Mr. Gegen: Sure. Mr. Rapozo: For bacteria to grow... Mr. Gegen: My bags are in the back of my truck. Mr. Rapozo: Are a lot quicker than colder areas, so that's the sole purpose, I really don't care about the cost to the... Mark's Place and... I don't care about that, that's not the intent of this amendment. Mr. Gegen: Sure. Mr. Rapozo: It's specifically targeted for food safety, none of the other things. I mean to create more plastic tubs to... that's to me defeating the purpose back to what you're saying. 44 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Gegen: Yep. And I would agree if that's, I think we can come up with more creative solutions... Mr. Rapozo: I want to go on the record and say this plastic bags whether it's compostable, biodegradable or what... is reused more in the local households of this island today for other purposes, so I think we cover the reuse and we in fact after we're done using it as often as we can then it goes into composting tub or it biodegrades in the landfill, it's a win/win but that's just my opinion. Mr. Gegen: Yeah. Mr. Rapozo: And in the same time we are addressing the food safety issue because from what I gathered the healthy individual may not be susceptible. Mr. Gegen: Right. Mr. Rapozo: To the bacteria that's found in everywhere. Mr. Gegen: It's the person who is already compromised. Mr. Rapozo: It's the one that is elderly, the immune system is deficient, they're the ones that are going to get sick and this bacteria on those people becomes very, very, very serious. It's not like the common cold and that's my whole purpose for the amendment, I want to get that cleared today. Mr. Gegen: Yep. Mr. Rapozo: It has nothing to do with economics it's specially targeted at the food safety and the safety of our residents that eat in restaurants. Mr. Gegen: don't share the same opinion. Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Gegen: Chair Furfaro: Yukimura do you have a question? And I appreciate those concerns, we just Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions of Pat? Councilwoman Ms. Yukimura: I was going to ask how you address the concerns of the food industry but then I'm trying to process your arguments and you're saying that... I mean I haven't read, I just got this study from the University of Arizona that Councilmember Rapozo and yourself were talking about... and maybe they found contamination but did they find sickness is the question. And I'm thinking about the times I've gotten sick, I could never really pinpoint to any restaurant. Mr. Gegen: Sure. 45 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: So I agree with you that the liability issue just personally seems not that big of an issue though I'm open to hearing other stories about how that may be different. Mr. Gegen: And I don't think this study was waiting to see if it created sickness, I think they had used the bags, put them off alongside and then came back and tested the bags to see what was potentially growing in there. Ms. Yukimura: Right. Mr. Gegen: And I believe that's how it was so no, during this study nobody got sick from the bags. Ms. Yukimura: Well and you know that it was done by a University isn't assurance that it was objective. Mr. Gegen: Right. Ms. Yukimura: Because there were many studies done by Universities that show that tobacco wasn't harmful to people so you do have to watch where these studies are funded. So I guess I don't have that question for you in particular but I need some time to process this. Thank you. Mr. Gegen: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Pat I just want to say one other thing here. Mr. Gegen: Yes Council Chair. Chair Furfaro: You referenced the fact that you know I think in the restaurant business, food business in general... one of the things we have to realize is these (inaudible) of the restaurant, they're dealing with their reputation. Mr. Gegen: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Okay. That's what they're dealing with. Their reputation makes their success. Mr. Gegen: Yes it does. Chair Furfaro: You can talk about their food, the quality, local style the portions... you know the pork buns manapua. Mr. Gegen: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Okay, it's a Hawaiian term but it's a Chinese bun, right and it has the spirit of the pig in the pork bun but when you have a situation where that pork bun is used over and over again reheated and put on the steam, reheat it and put on the steam... that's the kind of thing that gets an establishment in trouble. Mr. Gegen: Yeah. 46 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Now it may go out in a plastic bag but the Health Department will then come when the complaint exist. Mr. Gegen: Sure. Chair Furfaro: And they will inspect the cleanliness of that facility, was it brought up to the right temperature to kill the bacteria, was it maintained in a low temperature, you know those are all the things that are important to the restaurant reputation. It's not as if they come up later and say oh we found something three (3) days later because bacteria can live that long. Mr. Gegen: Right. Chair Furfaro: And therefore you know your reputation is tarnished. We're dealing with people take take -out. Mr. Gegen: Yep. Chair Furfaro: And they put it in a plastic bag, I think the (inaudible) hoping that it is in reasonable time that has become a meal that someone can enjoy. Mr. Gegen: Oh yes. Chair Furfaro: But everybody have that responsibility so it's the reputation that the restaurants are worried about, not if there was a settlement, its reputation. It's hard to get your reputation back. Mr. Gegen: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Gegen: Chair Furfaro: reputation. Councilwoman. Oh yes, I agree. So in listening to both sides here and... Yes. I'm just saying for the restaurants it's about Ms. Nakamura: Thank you Pat for your testimony. I just wanted to follow up on one question because I'm also learning through this process that Chef Martina brought up and the question is if she uses a different type of container that she's going to use multiple containers, so now you got your gravy, and then your rice... so more stuff going into the landfill, is that and so I'm trying to balance that with you know one biodegradable maybe at a higher standard than what might be in this current bill but... how do you balance those two (2) issues? Mr. Gegen: And that's tough and I mean I would hate to think that somebody would go through four (4) separate Styrofoam containers. Ms. Nakamura: Right, exactly. Mr. Gegen: With plastic lids to replace the one because that would not be accomplishing our solution and again there are food service types 47 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 of items out there, some that close better than our current Styrofoam types, that are tighter, that are made from a more biodegradable type of material, so there are other options out there. So again I would hope that the establishments would take this bill in the spirit in which it was written and say you know what we're trying to clean up things, we're trying to take care of the aina, we're trying to do the pono thing and take it with that spirit and say okay I may have to pass a little cost on to my customers but you know what, a lot of times there's value in showing your customers that you are going green, that you are concerned about the environment so I think there's a good trade off there. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. Mr. Gegen: Thank you. And just for the record, I've eaten at the Culinary institute and I've eaten at Mark's Place and I love them both, so the reputations are very much intact whether I go in there with a reusable bag, plastic bag or paper bag. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Gegen: Alright, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Next speaker please. Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker is Cathy Shibuya, followed by Alan Okuhara. CATHY SHIBUYA: Hi. Cathy Shibuya, I'm here on behalf of myself and my employer Mark's Place. Chair Furfaro: Cathy may I ask you to pull the mic a little bit closer, it slides... there you go. Ms. Shibuya: Okay, can you hear me now? Okay I think the main issue here today is health and safety. I don't know if any of you have gotten food poisoning but I have. It happened twenty (20) years ago but still till today I will not go back to that restaurant and I don't want that impact on where I work because with this economy today we cannot afford to have that impact on us. On the bill itself under section one (1), I'm not sure if you Mr. Bynum actually wrote this bill but I will read it to you... it says that the Council of the County of Kauai finds and declares that to preserve the health, safety, welfare and scenic of Kauai that distribution of plastic bags should be regulated and prohibited. So I ask you today, whose health, safety and welfare were you concerned about when this was written? Chair Furfaro: You know I'm not absolutely sure, I'm not answering for Mr. Bynum but I will ask him... I'm not actually sure who came up with that verbiage but I will ask him. Ms. Shibuya: Okay, I just wanted to point that out that it is written in the bill. 48 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Bynum: Yes I authored the bill so I take responsibility for that language and the answer to your question is the health and safety of the people of Kauai. Ms. Shibuya: Okay with that said I just that you reconsider or consider what Mr. Rapozo is trying to do for the health, safety and welfare for the people of Kauai. The other thing I wanted to say is, I'm on the front line at Mark's Place almost every day and I get a lot of complaints about the paper bags. One (1) is that the bag breaks, what's happening is the bag is not made like how they used to make it twenty (20) years ago, it's not as strong. When the plate lunch sits in the bag for three (3) minutes or so, the glue gets undone so that's when the food falls through the bags, we've had that happen, one too many times and the customer will call us like it's our fault. I know it's not, but that's one of the things that are happening. The other complaint I get is that the gravy leaks on their seats, that's no fault of ours again but they'll call and complain about it. I'm just asking that you consider this amendment. Oh one (1) more thing they said they have lesser use for paper bag whereas plastic bags, they can use it to reline their trash cans at home, some have said they use it to put their wet clothes after swimming in, you know they have more uses for plastic bags than paper bags. Chair Furfaro: Any questions from members? Mr. Chang. Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair. Cathy, I've gone through this community and I kind of consider myself a (inaudible) of plate lunches being a bachelor so I go out and eat quite often and I ask everyone, grocery stores, take -out places, local foods and what have you but when I ask you numerous times as I come in for either lunch or dinner, you explained that there was a situation that somebody picked up lunch for a group and a gathering and it was a very interesting story because... can you share that with us what happened when the last lunch was supposed to be distributed and who that lunch was for and it fell right there. Can you share that story with us please? Ms. Shibuya: Okay. This person had purchased lunch for a group of people, it was about twelve (12) lunches if I recall, the last lunch in the bag was for the Mayor and when they went to take the lunch out of the bag, the whole plate toppled over because their hand got stuck in the paper bag, so luckily they had purchased an extra lunch, the Mayor didn't get to eat what he wanted to eat though because it was all over the floor. Mr. Chang: Because the bag broke because of the... Ms. Shibuya: The bag broke. Mr. Chang: Because of the gravy. Ms. Shibuya: I'm not exactly sure but all I know is he didn't get his lunch. Something about the bag. Mr. Chang: Okay, thank you. Ms. Shibuya: I just have one last thing and I'm just wondering... this is actually is for Solid Waste though, the ban has been in effect for 49 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 almost one (1) month now. I just wanted to know if the household waste increased, decreased, or stayed status quo? Chair Furfaro: I don't think we have that answer for you. Ms. Shibuya: Okay. Chair Furfaro: It is a good question. Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: Cathy, you are at work every day over there? You get the opportunity to speak to the customers? What is your response or your reaction from your customers regarding the current bill as it stands and it pertains to food? Ms. Shibuya: I have people asking me to sneak them plastic bags. Mr. Rapozo: And many establishments are doing that, it's unfortunate but it's... Ms. Shibuya: Um... okay that I don't know but people have asked me to sneak them some bags and I refuse. When it was permissible though we did distribute our food in some paper and some in plastic, so not everything was given out in plastic. Mr. Rapozo: Okay, thank you. Chair Furfaro: No other questions, thank you very much for your testimony. Next speaker please. Mr. Nakamura: Alice Parker. Next speaker is Alan Okuhara, followed by ALAN OKUHARA: Hello, I'm Alan Okuhara one of the owners of Mark's Place. I'm here to see if we can get an amendment for this bill because of cross contamination of food because like this is one of the signs we have posted at our shop. Chair Furfaro: Could I ask you to put the sign up towards the camera as well, there we go. Mr. Okuhara: There are occasions where I was on the front line helping bagging the foods too and some people brought in their cloth bags but some of the cloth bag, I refused to put it in because I asked them when did they wash them, they said they never did. I'm just worried that people are going to get sick on that part. And like Martina said earlier the cloth absorbs, you know a lot of people didn't think about all this bacteria growing in their bags. So it's the health issue that we worried about, somebody getting sick because did you ever wash your guys own recyclable bags? A lot of people don't and plus with the humidity and the heat in Hawaii they just multiplies. I did some research. The paper bags requires a lot more energy and water to produce and cutting down more trees compared to plastic bags. I just worry about, we worry about the environment too like you guys think about things going to the landfill, because of this... a lot of cardboard boxes 50 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 that we use instead of the paper bags instead of recycling. We recycle all our cardboards so a lot of this is going into the dump instead of recycling. A lot of it is extra stuff are going into the landfill instead of plastic bags, so it's a health reason and things that are going into the dump and the landfill. I think we need to worry, it's part about the environment too, we need to think about us humans getting sick too you know, we think about the environment.but we got to think about ourselves first. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Let me see if there is any question for you. Councilwoman Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Thanks Alan, good job. I didn't get your last point about cardboard or more stuff going into the landfill, are you saying because of the plastic bag... Mr. Okuhara: Because you know instead of packing them in paper bag because the paper bag breaks, we tried to pack them into soda boxes or things other boxes that we don't have... that didn't come with food, let's say chicken boxes, we don't use nothing that has food like let's say our paper plates or soda boxes but that usually we just recycle it. Ms. Yukimura: I see. Mr. Okuhara: But now all of this stuff is going to the dump instead. Ms. Yukimura: I see. Mr. Okuhara: I know a lot of businesses are doing that too because you know the cost for like the plastic bags are like I think one cents compared to like twenty -five cents to a paper bag, so everybody cost wise using their cardboard but I think all the cardboard, if something leaks on it like gravy, they're just going to throw it away, it's going straight to the dump. Ms. Yukimura: So. Mr. Okuhara: It adds to the environment. Ms. Yukimura: Yeah so you're really trying to adjust or find ways to meet this but it's not been easy. Mr. Okuhara: It's not. Ms. Yukimura: I mean it's true I understand now about your point about more cardboard are going but they are probably more compostable than plastic bags, so you got a lot of things you're juggling. Mr. Okuhara: But the thing too is a lot of cardboard are not cleaned too, that's the thing you know the safety part about it, you don't know... we try as much as possible to make sure the cardboard is clean but we're not going to be a hundred percent sure because cardboard can attract moisture that you know bacteria can grow unless compared to plastic. 51 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: Yeah. again like you might plastic. Though you probably won't use it Mr. Okuhara: Yeah but you don't know if the cardboard was wet before that's the thing we worried about too, it's a health issue as compared to plastic doesn't absorb any moisture for the bacteria to grow in. Ms. Yukimura: Okay, thank you very much for explaining. Chair Furfaro: Let me see if there's any more questions for you Alan... no. Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker is Alice Parker followed by Mark Oyama. ALICE PARKER: Greetings, Alice Parker. First of all I bring up condominiums and needing smaller plastic bags instead of what the President of the Association says now oh get the thirteen (13) gallon ones because we cannot throw raw garbage into the big dumpster, that would be unsanitary and unhealthy if we have garbage in things in our apartment, it's a little hard to compost in your kitchen when you're on the third floor or something. So anyway I really think that we need to be visionary here and recommend or legislate that the most current biodegradable plastic bags be used and make it so each time there's an improvement that we, that that can be used. Because there is a need for plastic bags and I don't want the... being biodegradable I don't think the animals would have much trouble getting caught in them. And I think that will be much handier. Somebody has pointed out we use them to line garbage pails but it should be biodegradable and I've always used newspaper to pick up after dogs, even big dogs and people say use plastic, no newspaper better, it does take longer to degrade and compost but faster than the old plastic bags. Somebody was mentioning I think talking to Mr. Rapozo or he mentioned this plastic that breaks down, I think that's great because yes you're using fossil fuels to make it, the oil company's sort of thing but you know we got to have something to put garbage in. We can't all compost unfortunately Pat but, and the other thing it's just nitpicking, I was born with editing ink in my blood, on page two (2) of the bill, the fourth paragraph down, second line from the bottom, under section 501(c), now I went through exempt organization training for the IRS in New York and they are about, at that time they were about 50(c) up to eighteen (18), they're probably more now, it should be 501(c)3 for tax exempt for tax organizations to which contributions are deductable. Chair Furfaro: Thank you for that suggested correction. Alice, we have a request from Mr. Rapozo who has a question. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Alice. So now that you don't have that plastic bags to line your little trash cans with, what are doing, what are you using? Ms. Parker: I still have some supply. Mr. Rapozo: And when that runs out, what do you plan on doing? Are you planning on purchasing? 52 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Parker: Thirteen (13) gallon and I hate it because they're not biodegradable. Mr. Rapozo: Yeah and I. Ms. Parker: And also us old folks can't carry the load to fill the whole bag up so we're probably use more of those thirteen (13) gallon ones than we would of the little ones. Mr. Rapozo: Right. Ms. Parker: But you're going to have more plastic in the landfill. Mr. Rapozo: And those plastics that you buy in the store in those little boxes whether it's the little ones or the bigger ones, those will not degrade. Ms. Parker: That's what I'm thinking. Mr. Rapozo: They will sit there forever. And again another issue if you're talking about the environment, why not replace that, you use your plastic bag as many times as you can until it's non - usable and then it biodegrades or it compost. Ms. Parker: Right, absolutely. Because I go to the Lihu`e Senior Center and we often get donations of fresh fruit from a certain place that's very great to us with that when they have extra and we bundle it up in reusable plastic bags to take home because all this lettuce and carrots and stuff, we can't stick them in our pockets right... okay yeah reusable, recyclable plastic bags, okay. Mr. Rapozo: And I appreciate the comment about the 501(c)3, I know that probably will have to be fixed. I'm contemplating whether or not, I don't understand why theirs should be exempt and they can use real plastic, real plastic. I mean there's one won't biodegrade but the safety issues are not being considered, not in a non - profit. You know how many 501(c)3 we got on this island? They will be at liberty to use real plastic. So I don't understand the rationale there and that's something I'm hoping to get information from the public to maybe amend this further to include them in the requirement to use biodegradable and composting as well because I don't see any difference. It's the same oil being used, it's the same animals being killed, so there's really no rationale for that. Ms. Parker: You're absolutely right. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Any other questions for Alice? Thank you very much and thank you as Mr. Rapozo said about the correction. We have Mr. Mark Oyama next. MARK OYAMA: My name is Mark Oyama; I'm here in front of the Council supporting the amendment of the plastic bag ban bill. As a food service business owner of Mark's Place, culinary educator at Kauai Community 53 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 College, son, father of two (2) young daughters, I'm hoping that the Council will look into this issue not as a popularity vote but what is best to safeguard the people of our islands and our visitors. When this bill went into law the recommendation from the County was for food service establishments to use reusable bags and cardboard boxes to transport ready -to -eat foods, but what was not addressed was the contamination hazards that these items pose. In a study done by the University of Arizona and the School of Public Health Loma Linda University, it found that reusable bags can be a serious threat to public health. Bacteria levels found in the reusable bags were significant enough to cause a wide range of serious health problems and even death in that study. (Inaudible) form bacteria including ecoh were detected in half of the bag sample. The study also found the awareness of potential risk was very low. A full ninety -seven percent (97 %) of those interviewed never washed or bleached their bags. When the new law came into effect the price of the compliant paper bags increased packaging by two thousand five hundred percent. I'm concerned that this increase in cost will cause some food establishments to use single use cardboard boxes that held meat, produce or chemicals which could cross contaminate ready to eat foods. The County Council clearly demonstrated the food safety issue in bill 2322, ordinance number 885 by allowing plastic produce bags for meats and produce in the supermarkets, this demonstrates the intent of food safety for the consumers. What it didn't address is the food safety for ready to eat foods. Unlike raw meats and produce, ready to eat foods will not be washed to rid of harmful bacteria or likely be reheated to the proper temperatures to kill any pathogens that might have cross contaminated these items. There are currently two (2) bills in the Hawaii State Senate, Bills SB 1363, and SB 1059 which prohibits certain business in the State from distributing single use plastic check out bags. In these bills they have addressed the needs of using single non - reusable checkout bags which includes plastic bags. It states the term non - reusable checkout bag does not include bags distributed by businesses for the transport of number one (1) raw meats, poultry, fish, frozen foods, flowers, or other items containing dampness. Number two (2) bulk food products sold without packaging, number three (3) fresh produce, number four (4) baked goods sold over the counter without packaging, number five (5) takeout foods from restaurants, number six (6) live animals, number seven (7) newspapers for home delivery, and number eight (8) laundry or dry cleaning. Currently the County of Kauai allows raw meats, poultry, fish and frozen foods to use plastic bags because it makes sense. We allow fresh produce to use plastic bags... Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Mark... your first three (3) minutes is up and I'm going to go ahead and give you your second three (3) minutes. Mr. Oyama: Okay, thank you. We allow live fish to be put in plastic bags because it makes sense, we allow newspapers to be put in plastic bags and delivered to the homes because it makes sense, but what we don't allow is ready to eat foods that can be potentially hazard by cross contamination to use plastic bags which does not make sense. There are currently sixty -four (64) written testimony online on these two (2) Senate bills, of these sixty -four (64) written testimony none have addressed the fact that non- reusable checkout bags should not be used for these items. These even include testimony from the Surfrider Foundation, Sierra Club of Hawaii, and the Conservation Council for Hawaii. Why? Because it makes sense. As a certified service aid culinary which is to recognize food safety certification roadway by the National Restaurant Association and as a food safety and sanitation educator at Kauai Community College, I'm concerned about the food safety of our visitors and the people of Kauai. The cost of 54 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 food borne illness to an establishment can create loss of employment, loss of sales, increased insurance premiums, and high probability rate of loss of business. For the consumer study show that certain people have a high risk of getting food borne illness than others, sometimes serious results as death. Infant, preschool age children, pregnant women, elderly people, and people with compromised immune systems. The center for disease control estimates that every year food borne illness cause approximately seventy -six (76) million illnesses, three hundred twenty -five thousand (325,000) hospitalizations, and five hundred (500) deaths in the United States. Please do not allow our grandparents, parents, children, relatives and friends be a part of this statistic. This amendment is also backed by the Hawaii Hotel Lodging Association on Kauai, Hawaii Restaurant Association, American Culinary Federal Kauai Chapter, so you can clearly see that each of these organizations understand that there is a food safety concern with this current bill. With information that I presented it is my hope that you as our leaders will be proactive and responsible in protecting our people for potential injury and loss from food borne illness and not reactive by being concerned only after someone gets injured or died. Please protect the people first and please keep my family, friends from being a part of this statistic, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Alright first of all is that written testimony that you prepared to give us a copy? Mr. Oyama: I will send you a copy of this written testimony. Chair Furfaro: And could you revisit the Senate bill and the House bill numbers that you... Mr. Oyama: Sure. It's Senate bill SB 1363, and SB 1059. Right now they're... that bill doesn't... will allow the counties if they have a bill already to go on with their law, they won't touch other counties with that law. Chair Furfaro: Okay well we're aware of it and Mr. Nakamura our County Clerk will research it that's why I asked you in particular covered a different scope about food service. Mark let me see if anybody has another questions? Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: You mentioned the produce bags are allowed under the current bill and they are and I'm assuming that was left in there or allowed because of the food safety issue like you described? Mr. Oyama: I'm assuming that that's the reason why it was left in for food safety. Mr. Rapozo: Those bags are pretty protected though I think if you use those types of bags, they would prohibit the spread of the cross contamination I'm assuming I mean in your experience because I also .consider you an expert as well. Mr. Oyama: The plastic bags, the produce bags wrapped around raw meats or chicken and if... same like a plate lunch or whatever takeout food you have, a lot of those products are already in a container or bag but you still have a potential for leakage. Now the bags are allowed to put around those 55 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 containers in case there's leakage but when it goes into a reusable cloth bag or reusable bag, it depends on how it's stacked in there, it's not stacked or tied, it's just placed into the bag, you lie it in your car, you lie it down where ever it stays and you have a potential of leakage. That's where you have the cross contamination with ecoli, salmonella and right now people don't know it but they consider salmonella only with chicken but you have more salmonella with produce now than on chicken. Mr. Rapozo: I think I read that where like leafy vegetables, lettuce and so forth carry that bacteria as well. Mr. Oyama: Mr. Rapozo: Yes. Okay well thank you very much. Mr. Oyama: And I'd like to point out I know you had a question about cross contamination how a food was in a container, now... Chair Furfaro: Mr. Oyama: Chair Furfaro: you. Mr. Oyama: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Oyama: Chair Furfaro: restate it? Ms. Yukimura: it... my question was into the food? Excuse me Mark, let me... Okay, I'm sorry. Let me have them restate the question to Okay. Because I've already given you all your time. Sure. So who had that question of Mark, could you Sure, thanks I appreciate you addressing about okay so there's bacteria in the bag but how does it get Mr. Oyama: Well when you pick up your lunch in the bag your fingers normally touch the bag right? Ms. Yukimura: Right. Mr. Oyama: Or it will touch the container that touches the bag, so right there you have cross contamination and how many of you wash your hands after you open your plate lunch? Nobody and you're going to touch your utensils and how many of you are going to touch only... or touch the napkin and not you know not use the side that you touch the napkin to touch your mouth. These are all potential and the point of being brought up where how often you get sick, well there's no real... a lot of people get sick without even knowing there's a food borne illness and going back... the chances I'm not sure what the chances are but do we want to add fuel to the fire and give more chances for that to happen? That's what I'm trying to prevent. 56 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Mr. Oyama: And another point with the cardboard boxes if they had a box that was already contaminated, you know a lot of places will put your plate lunches in and they put your utensils in the box directly, not in the lunches itself, so that's where you get another cross contamination. Chair Furfaro: Anymore questions of Mark? Mark thank you very much and you will submit your testimony... Mr. Oyama: And before I leave I'd like to say that I'm not against saving the environment, we are at Mark's Place working on a project right now to allow reusable bags, we are looking at different ways to help be a part of a steward on our island but at the same time I'm speaking on behalf of a lot of other industry out there that might not see the same sanitation things that we see and be as protected as we are. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Do we have a next speaker? Okay, we have... Mr. Nakamura: No further registered speakers Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: We're done with the registered speakers, Ken. KEN TAYLOR: Chair, members of the Council, my name is Ken Taylor. First I'd just like to comment because there's been some much discussion today about this review from the University of Arizona, we should all keep in mind that that project was funded by the chemical company that represents the manufacturer of plastic bags so one could... there's certainly some bias in there but in reality the report didn't find much of anything to begin with. If it was going to find something, it would have been there I believe and so. The other thing is the, one of the problems with these biodegradable plastic bags is they don't completely biodegradable, they breakdown to a point but then there's a lot of confetti that's left that take hundreds of years to go any further so that's one problem. The other problem with these bags is because they are biodegradable, you can't buy them in large quantities because they deteriorate sitting on the shelf and so one of the reasons for going to plastic bags in the first place years ago was that they were cheaper than paper bags and anybody in business is going to go with something that's cheaper than the other. It was cheaper for them to buy but it wasn't cheaper for us in the long run to deal with the problem so there's a lot of issues, I just said last Friday my wife and I went out to dinner at a restaurant, a fish restaurant and fishing grill and we had dinner and some wine with our dinner and dessert, had a bill and the next day my wife was very, very ill. Now I don't know if had anything to do with the dinner or not but there was no plastic bags involved but there's so many things that can create problems that we don't know where they come from. People have to start taking a little bit of responsibility for themselves too; I mean if you don't wash your bags, maybe you deserve to get sick. Chair Furfaro: Now, now, now. 57 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Taylor: When I spent two (2) years living in Japan, they used to take a square cloth and tie up their food in the event which was much easier and more likely to be washed on a regular basis then a bag maybe. Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Ken, that's your first three (3) minutes, I'm extending your second three (3) minutes. Mr. Taylor: Alright. So we talk a lot about being sustainable into the future and so on and we have to start making the hard choices to get there and I'm opposed to this amendment and I just like to read a short piece out of a larger document that was a commencement speech at a University in Oregon in 09 by Paul Hokins and this little part of the speech really jumped out at me when I read it and it says we have an economy that tells us that it is cheaper to destroy earth in real time rather than renew, restore, and sustain it. You can print money to bail out banks but you can't print life to bail out a planet. At present we are stealing the future, selling it in the present and calling it gross domestic product. We can just as easy have an economy that is based on healing the future instead of stealing it. We can either create assets for the future or take the assets of the future. One is called restoration and the other is exportation and whenever we exploit the earth, we exploit the people and cause untold suffering. Working for earth is not a way to get rich it is a way to be rich. And I really think that this comment relates to so many things that we do today and it's time that we get the political will to take the necessary steps to become sustainable. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Rapozo. Thank you Ken. Any questions for Ken? Mr. Mr. Rapozo: Ken do you support the non - profits using plastic bags? Mr. Taylor: I do not. Mr. Rapozo: Support the newspaper allowing putting out every day thousands of newspapers in little plastic bags? Mr. Taylor: I don't agree with that. Mr. Rapozo: But you say you support the bill as it is. Mr. Taylor: Well because that's the bill that we have. Mr. Rapozo: I'm not talking about... Mr. Taylor: I understand. Mr. Rapozo: You said you support the bill as it is as many others did; they're citing the fact that the environment is the key but they're allowing non - profits and the newspaper and all these other non -check out areas to use plastic or the bill itself is forcing people to go out and purchase plastic that doesn't biodegrade. So I'm having a hard time understand you support the bill as is but yet no more plastic but yet we allow so much plastic but when it comes to food safety people say no, stop, no, no, no... biodegradables. My question to you is explain that because I'm confused. 58 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Taylor: Well first of all instead of spending time on an amendment like this we should be making the bill stronger and eliminating all of the plastic that you're talking about, we should be eliminating plastic water bottles; we should be eliminating Styrofoam instead of coming forth and spending time with this... Mr. Rapozo: written. Mr. Taylor: Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Taylor: Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Taylor: Mr. Rapozo: Then you don't support the bill as it's I don't support the bill as it's written. Okay, thank you. But that's not the issue before us. Of course it is. The issue here is an amendment to the bill. Right. Mr. Taylor: I would rather see an amendment to the bill, the existing bill that eliminates the plastics that are still left out there. Most of us that have supported the bill in the first place supported it only as the first step in the right direction and hopefully you folks that have the ability to make the changes will not go backwards like this does but go forward by bringing forth additional amendments that will eliminate the rest of the plastic. Mr. Rapozo: So last question... Chair Furfaro: Excuse me... let me just say Ken you are going into areas that as I had cautioned Mr. Bynum earlier on we're going away from the bill and I have to caution us in a sense that there are limits that Councilmembers can respond to your many new questions. Mr. Rapozo you have the floor. Mr. Rapozo: Just one more last question and it's really a yes or no, you talked about the political will, do you think this Council should put the environment in front of public health and safety, and food safety, yes or no. Mr. Taylor: Well I don't think there's a yes or no answer to that. Mr. Rapozo: Well there is, I mean you think we should put the environment before the safety... Mr. Taylor: You take care of the environment and the environment will take care of you. Chair Furfaro: And I'm going to end the comments right there. Thank you Mr. Rapozo. Do we have anyone else in the audience that would 59 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 like to speak? Glenn come right on up. Councilwoman Yukimura can you take the meeting from me for a few minutes? Ms. Yukimura: Yes certainly. GLENN MICKENS: Thank you Jay or JoAnn. For the record my name is Glenn Mickens. It appears that both the original bill and Mel's amendment are basically the same. The original says decompose in an actual setting and Mel's says degradable plastic, for me, we're saying basically the same thing. For me the main thing is that the trash island in the Pacific that was out there the size of Texas is eliminated. My wife with Alice loves plastic bags to put in their waste basket but she's the most recyclable person on Kauai and wants to do the proper thing, so she may love it but again I think we go back to the degradable part. I saw a report from consumers union, you probably saw the same thing, it was talking about these carry in and carry out bags and they're (inaudible) consumer report for forty years, I have tremendous respect for that and consumers report on health, they're not paid by anybody as you know their a mutual organization. And they found that the chances of illnesses from those bags were negligible, that you weren't going to be able to get sick from whatever is in that particular bags. If our plastics bags are degradable then except for what Pat has said for the oil used in them, the degradable part for me is the solution whether it's plastic or what, that is the solution. Mel brought up a good point what about all the rest of the newspapers that come in those plastic bags to keep them dry in the morning, etc... then they should all be degradable, all plastic bags should be made degradable. Basically will solve the solution. Anyway that's my testimony and you know it's not an easy subject obviously, you try to listen to whether somebody has a dog in the fight when they testify about something, if they have no dog in the fight, they're mutual... well if they're trying to do the right thing, fine. Thank you very much JoAnn. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Mr. Mickens. Any questions? Mr. Rapozo: I just wanted to, I'm sorry. Ms. Yukimura: Oh. Mr. Rapozo: You cited that consumer reports... can you go over that real quick? Mr. Mickens: Yeah. Maybe I saw it... Andy Parks had a blog that he... Mr. Rapozo: Oh okay... that's... you don't need to say anymore. Mr. Mickens: Well but... Mr. Rapozo: Because I read it. Mr. Mickens: Oh okay. Mr. Rapozo: I read it every morning, like how I take my multi - vitamin, I take my salmon oil, I take all my stuff and then I read Andy Parks blog and he cited a part of that and I have it here. He cited a part of it where it says 60 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 a person eating an average bag of salad greens gets more exposure to these bacteria than if they had licked the insides of the dirty bags in the study. That's probably what you're referring to. Mr. Mickens: Right, right. Mr. Rapozo: But it also says and that's why it's important Mr. Mickens when you read Andy Parks, you got to go back and read what he read and get what he didn't put in his blog... which was but hence and notes... and it's the same one... Chair Furfaro: Excuse me; I got to share with you... I hate to caution us, for the Councilmembers the contents of Mr. Parks blog is not this agenda item. Mr. Rapozo: But. Chair Furfaro: I will give you thirty (30) seconds to summarize... Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Chair Furfaro: Your response to Mr. Mickens. AL CASTILLO JR., COUNTY ATTORNEY: Excuse me, Councilmember. I got to say that the Council Chair is correct because the Sunshine Law actually what is permissible is for the Council to just speak on the subject matter itself and allowing the discretion o£.. in allowing the testifier to testify outside out of bounds is appropriate if allowed by the person in control of the meeting. Mr. Rapozo: Well... this comment is directly related to reusable bags, it says but what (inaudible) notes that there are some reminders to take away from the study, the same study... it's easy to spread bacteria from meat, fish, poultry to other foods in your kitchen or in your grocery bags, so we do think it's wise to carry those items in disposable bags. Reusable bags are fine for most everything else but it's a good idea to wash them occasionally, that's the rest of it that maybe forgot to put in. I think we need to make sure when we put out information, we give out all the information and let the fact finders and the decision makers decide on the information that's available. Mr. Mickens: Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Mickens: consumers and I guess it's online... Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Mickens: Well I appreciate it that Mel. Thank you. I didn't go and get that part of issue of Well you got to read the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. Mr. Rapozo: You got to read the whole thing. 61 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Glenn, thank you. I think all of us can access you know the comments, the constructive comments that Mr. Parks and Mr. Rapozo... here. Mr. Mickens: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Mickens: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Mickens: Chair Furfaro: communication. Right. Had share with us all. Well I appreciate those... But for right now we have some restrictions Right. And I'll make that a point to visit that JOE ROSA: Good afternoon members of the Council. For the record Joe Rosa. I'm listening to all this things about the poor white plastic bags, you know the plastic bags was not a problem whatsoever until as of late because it was strictly introduced more so by Mr. Bynum. We only heard about this so- called plastic magic island off the coast of California, now this is a world item; it's not a county issue or county item. And you know when it came out on the Council meeting I remember after that I don't know who was paying Dennis Fujimoto, he was always taking pictures of the poor white bag on the side of the road, behind the guardrail, by a trash can and putting it in his Garden Island. So people were kind of thinking oh he's doing something good for the county but you know it's nothing but waste of time. Here on this Council we should be dealing with problems of this island and the county here. If we're going to deal with plastic bags, all your trash liners in your Parks, it's all plastic. You're going to pick on the poor white plastic bags and at the grocery stores you know it's ridiculous. Why not make it all green bags instead of white bags and let them put the groceries and stuff in that. It became an issue when these so- called pictures in the Garden Island showed up of that white bag and they started to make a problem out of it. You know I can ask everyone of you what created this problem. You going have seven (7) different answers but yet to me it's something that is not a problem at all because i£.. they don't do nothing in this world, and stuff.. and put a ban to it, why should the Kauai County do it, we're just a small thing here in the middle of the ocean. So I think those trash bags, if you're going to condemn all, you condemn the whole shebang... black, green, yellow, white... but it seems like you're just hitting one section of the people that use that trash bags and (inaudible) stores or people who use trash bags, food caterers and all that. So think about it, to me, you're trying to do something but it didn't work out and I think you should just let it go and rest upon it until something else comes up better. Because I don't know what the State of California, Oregon, Mexico and on top of that those big shipping lines that probably throw their trash out in the ocean. Those were probably the villains of those trash bag island out of California. Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Rosa, any questions of Mr. Rosa? If not, I see none. Is there anyone else in the audience that wishes to speak? They have no questions for you Mr. Rosa. If not, I'm going to call this meeting back to order. 62 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows. Mr. Nakamura: You have a motion to receive Council Chair. Chair Furfaro: We do have the motion to receive? Mr. Nakamura: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Okay, Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I appreciate all the testimony we heard today and you know this is going to come up later on the agenda when we actually vote on the bill that because we had all the testimony now, you know this is a very interesting topic, I am familiar with the study and I've read it and I've read you know the critiques of this study and as we go through this public process, what we'll determine. I really appreciate Mr. Oyama's testimony today in terms of, because there are exemptions in the bill that we put there and I like, it was well written Mark because like... because it makes sense. I think when we go through this public process, we will determine as a group if making a change relating to food safety in restaurants makes sense. I'm not clear that now, that answer to that yet. But that's why I love the public process, so I am going to vote for this bill on first reading because our process is a public process to get input, to learn, to understand. I obviously don't know much about the food industry as Mr. Oyama and the other people who testified here today but I do know that this concern that came up about the potential about cross contamination did come from a study that was funded by the American Chemical Industry and it has been critiqued by food safety experts and as we go through the process we will look at that testimony as well. And so... I love the public process and I think that it's appropriate that we have this dialog. Mel mentioned an exemption for non - profits, I personally didn't support that exemption but I supported the bill because the public process is one that compromise. So I don't know what the outcome will be, I'm certainly voting for the bill today because our process is to go to first reading, public hearing, you know have Committee entertain other amendments if necessary and use that process to come up with a conclusion that the majority decides on. So this is just the beginning of the process. Chair Furfaro: Any other members? For the audience the bill comes up later when we get back from our lunch hour but this is actually receiving the testimony. The motion to receive C 2011 -61 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried. There being no objections, the Council recessed 12:35 p.m. The Council reconvened at 1:50 p.m., and proceeded as follows: Mr. Nakamura: Council Chair, we're now back on page two (2) of the Council's agenda on agenda item C 2011 -62. 63 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 C 2011 -62 Communication (1/19/2011) from the Executive on Aging, Agency on Elderly Affairs, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend $1,379,893.52 in State funds from the State Executive Office on Aging, with their contract award to the County of Kauai, Agency on Elderly Affairs of State General funds, including approved Rainy Day Funds. The funding covers the period from the State's Notice to Proceed until June 30, 2013. The funding is for the provision for KUPUNA CARE services for older adults, age 60 and above. This request also includes a indemnification of the State Executive Office on Agency: Mr. Bynum moved to approve C 2011 -62, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk. Mr. Nakamura: We're on page three (3) of the Council's agenda Mr. Chair on communication C 2011 -64. C 2011 -64 Communication (1/18/2011) from the Fire Chief, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend $65,459.52 of the 2011 State of Hawaii, Department of Transportation, Highway Safety Grant which would allow the Kauai Fire Department (KFD) to purchase for one per fire station the following: • Tele Crib Struts $30,494.80 • Response Kits $34,964.72 Mr. Chang moved to approve C 2011 -64, seconded by Ms. Yukimura. Chair Furfaro: Please note these numbers that we're looking at are inclusive numbers for all eight (8) stations. Is there anyone that would like to give testimony on this item? Seeing no one, is there any further discussion by the Councilmembers? If not, all those in favor? The motion to approve C 2011 -64 was then put, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item. Mr. Nakamura: Next matter for approval on page three (3) is communication C 2011 -65. C 2011 -65 Communication (1/10/2011) from the Fire Chief, requesting Council approval to accept a donation of the installation of a flagpole at the Hanap6pe Fire Station, a project which will assist Joshua Quinlan to become an Eagle Scout: Ms. Yukimura moved to approve C 2011 -65 with a thank you letter, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk. Mr. Nakamura: Next matter is a Legal Document for approval C 2011 -67. LEGAL DOCUMENTS: C 2011 -67 Communication (1/18/2011) from the Housing Director, requesting Council approval of the following: (1) The leasehold sale of 3934 Lawehana Street, Hanama`ulu, Hawaii for $213,363.00; and MA COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 (2) To authorize the County Clerk to sign legal documents related to the resale transaction. Mr. Rapozo moved to approved C 2011 -67, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried. Mr. Nakamura: Next Legal Document for approval is C 2011 -68. C 2011 -68 Communication (1/13/2011) from the Director, Department of Parks and Recreation, requesting Council approval to facilitate the KIUC utility easements with the State of Hawaii which is necessary for providing electricity to the comfort station at Kapa`a Park, TMK 4 -6 -14 -036, the section known as Lihi Park. • Utility Relocation Agreement Ms. Yukimura moved to approve C 2011 -68, seconded by Mr. Bynum, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item. Mr. Nakamura: Last Legal Document for approval is attached to communication C 2011 -69. C 2011 -69 Communication (1/13/2011) from the Director, Department of Parks and Recreation, requesting Council approval to acquire property for the Lydgate Park to Kapa`a Bike/Pedestrian Path along Papaloa Road. • Memorandum of Agreement of Sale (TMK: (4)4 -3- 03:02) Ms. Yukimura moved to approve C 2011 -69, seconded by Mr. Chang. Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to testify on this? Mr. Mickens. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Mr. Mickens: Thank you again Jay. For the record Glenn Mickens and I have a short testimony. When will the public ever be told where the final route of this path is going and what will be its total cost including acquiring and condemnation of land as with this Papaloa parcel. The path was originally going into the House Lots until the people who lived there were properly notified and vehemently told Mayor Baptiste they didn't want it so that spur was eliminated. Then the path was going to be a boardwalk on the Wailua Beach but under pressure from our Native Hawaiians court action and all the route was again changed. And don't forget the turmoil over the mauka route behind the Coco Palms along with the makai route that is still not settled. Or the pavilion problems that had to be changed. Of the over built bridge across the Kealia River that even Jay asked about and was never addressed and on and on... years have passed with controversy on going about this path. The golf course route, in front of or behind the motorcycle park that Mel brought up, the crossing of Kuhi`6 Highway probably three (3) times with signals to jam up traffic even more. 65 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 This parcel of land acquisition is a miniscule part of the hundred million dollars cost of this project but what aren't the people continually told what's going on? Why are the costs, routes, time of completion terms with the Feds for their eighty percent (80 %) so selective, so secretive? I have a map here of the Papaloa Road, it's dated November of 2006, I don't know if there was a map ever put out long... I can't read this map. It shows a black line, it says bike pedestrian improvements, and then it shows widen sidewalks, etc... but I see nothing but black lines on this map and so I can't really determine just exactly where this route is going but my question still remains, why are we left in the dark about this, we're buying a piece of land, this parcel of property for Papaloa Road. I've testified before about Papaloa Road, they're going to make it a one lane thing and it was going to go up (inaudible) turn left, go across, go makai and then along there up to the ditch there by Pizza Hut I guess, come back down there, go across that little bridge etc., and then it has to go back across the highway again. Then you got the spur here going up Kawaihau Road and Kawaihau Road again they show it coming down Kawaihau Road, it's going to cross there at Kuhi`o Highway again. Now for you guys that have driven on Kawaihau Road coming there, that's a real, real dangerous intersection. You can't see around that bend, car's coming down on Kuhi`6 Highway, they're traveling you know fifty (50), it supposed to be the speed limit, I think it drops to thirty (30) but it comes down there and it's very dangerous so if you're going to have people on bicycles crossing, I can't tell... looks like there's supposed to be a signal, I can't read the small print on this thing but it looks like there's going to be a signal on the crossing walk there on that part but that again is going to be extremely dangerous for anybody, bicycles, or anybody else because even when you're in an automobile making a right hand turn there, I know you got to really be careful coming around there because cars come down there fast. That's basically my testimony but I don't know if anybody can give me an update on this thing but I've been trying to get information for a long time as you know. Chair Furfaro: We'll see if there's a motion to move this to the end of the agenda Mr. Mickens. Mr. Mickens: Okay. Chair Furfaro: And we'll take it from there but let me recognize some other Councilmembers first, Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I don't want to address everything you said Glenn because you come here and say the same things but you know there are EA's for this, environmental assessments that are online, all of the questions you ask are easily answered but I do want to address one about Kawaihau, right now you're right it's a scary place, do you think people cross there now kids and seniors? If you live in Kapa`a, Kapa`a you know up Kawaihau Road the people walk down there now, they cross the road now. Mr. Mickens: I've never seen them walk at that particular intersection Tim. Mr. Bynum: You never seen them? Mr. Mickens: No, I never seen them walk... 66 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Bynum: I can assure you lots of kids and seniors and elderly people walk down Kawaihau cross the highway to get to the beach or Otsuka's or the... and so actually part of this path to answer your question is to put in a pedestrian active (inaudible) alert so when they cross there the pedestrian can push a button and it will alert hey there's pedestrians coming... Mr. Mickens: You mean a trip signal? Mr. Bynum: So it's going to... no... pedestrian activated. So it's not a signal, it's just... you push a button the light says pedestrians are in the crosswalk and it alerts... so we're improving the safety for people who already move. You know these, this... why this process goes through we hire really nice consultants that know about traffic safety, that have to required by law consult with the Department of Transportation and the Police and all of the people involved to try to in the process improve pedestrian safety. We do have pedestrians now who walk on all of these places without facilities, so getting facilities for them just improves both the access and the safety. Mr. Mickens: Where are these traffic alert things being, used Tim, I never seen them on our highway? Mr. Bynum: All over the country. Mr. Mickens: On Kauai? Mr. Bynum: You know it's kind of like we put... Department of Public Safety put in a new intersection in Omao and because there is a curve, when you come down the road there's a flashing light that says hey the lights red. Mr. Mickens: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: And it alerts you, it's kind of like that. Pedestrian pushes a button; I'm going to cross the street. Mr. Mickens: But there's a signal there where they cross. Mr. Bynum: Right. Okay, I've answered your question. Thank you. Mr. Mickens: Well will you have update for the map? Chair Furfaro: Mr. Mickens. Mr. Bynum: The public... the Parks Department will come here with a quarterly update soon, I just saw that correspondence. Mr. Mickens: Soon but when is soon Tim? Mr. Bynum: Before the end of the quarter, I think the correspondence said. 67 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Mickens: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo: Okay, thank you. Hold on, I think Mr. Rapozo had a question. • "_ 4 Chair Furfaro: You did not have a question for him? Okay, is there anybody else from the public that would like to? Okay, I think I'm going to push this item towards the end, I saw someone come from the Administration. Mr. Rapozo: No, well I just... I thought... Chair Furfaro: Excuse me; the meeting is called back to order. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. I thought I had asked for someone from Parks here. I'm not sure, I believe this is the same purchase agreement about a month ago. Mr. Bynum: It was deferred yeah? Mr. Rapozo: No, that was approved, I vote... I mean I didn't vote for it but it was approved. I did request information I believe Mr. Chair it went through you to request the estimate of the cost of this acquisition and obviously we never got that information back and I'm going to ask the same question. I cannot support any acquisition unless I know what it's going to cost, I dust cannot do that and maybe I have the cost here. Oh no, this is the response that I got and it's unfortunately they're not able to provide the number, let me just read it real quick it says... in response to memorandums concerning the landscape related cost (inaudible) the Kapa`a Shore land acquisition we will provide this information shortly after we open the bids for the work on March 8, acquire cost figures will be available then. So I'm not prepared to vote on it because I just don't know what the cost will be and I think it would be premature to approve something if we don't know what the cost will be. Again I will ask that this matter be deferred until we have a cost. I guess it's confusing because it was approved the last time but this is a continuous issue because of the number of owners that need to sign off of this memorandum, the memorandum of agreement of sale, so whenever they come across new owners, they got to create a whole new memo, so we keep approving it and approving it with new owners and we're basically ratifying the contract or the memo but until I know exactly what the cost will be or at least an estimate I cannot believe we don't even have a ballpark estimate but until then, I will not be able to support this Legal Document. Chair Furfaro: Okay. Any other discussion here? So we do have a motion here Mr. Clerk? Mr. Nakamura: Yes we have a motion and a seconded. 68 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Okay, I'm going to see if we can get a call over to the Administration and I'm going to ask that we move this to the end of the agenda, is everyone okay with that. Mr. Rapozo: That's fine, I mean I think it's clear that they're not going to be able to submit numbers' till March 8 based on the last, this was a January 27 memo as I'm assuming that that hasn't changed but if you want to... I have no problem... Chair Furfaro: I'll push it to the end. I do want to caution us because you know that's a procedural piece where estimates are put in by the Administration as to you know what they are operating within the framework of their budget of something. Certainly when we voted on this we were told we were going to get a reconciliation, now we're getting a memorandum that might actually establish a precedent that until a project goes out for bids they're actually open and certified that you know... that's your question with the lack of other clarity. But let's push it to the end and see if we can get Mr. Heu who just walked in to come up towards the end of the meeting. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Are you prepared to answer some of these questions about the bid product on the acquisition of land in Kapa`a as it relates to some questions from Mr. Rapozo about specific costs associated with the landscaping portion of the project because we have no firm number. GARY HEU, MANAGING DIRECTOR: Right and I'm sorry. Gary Heu for the record and sorry for the in and out but I was asked the question about... I thought the question was the cost for the property but I'm not sure if everybody's already aware of that. Chair Furfaro: Well I want to tell you we were answering a previous request that went over from me that basically said that until we open the bid documents. Mr. Heu: On March 8. Chair Furfaro: We would be able to answer the portion on landscaping, etc. Mr. Heu: Right, right. Chair Furfaro: So is there any change on that right now? Mr. Heu: No, it's still. I confirmed it's still March 8. Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Heu: We will do the bid openings and we will have actual numbers to share at that point in time. I mean there's two (2) components of the cost, one was for the property and the other was for the improvements and what you think what you're resting with now is the cost of improvements which was that request that you came over or sent over and we sent over a response. 69 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: So let me see if there's any other questions for you Mr. Heu since you're there. Did you have a question Councilwoman? Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Go ahead. Ms. Yukimura: Do I understand that you do not have the price of the property that's described here? Mr. Heu: Oh no, I said there were two (2) components and one was for the cost for the property which I believe the estimate that was provided to me was a hundred thousand dollars. Ms. Yukimura: Okay, that's what we wanted. Mr. Heu: Right, yeah. Chair Furfaro: And we voted on that but the second part of that question was... Mr. Heu: Was the improvements. Chair Furfaro: Was that price was conditional of some certain improvements including a little extension of the parking lot, the replacement of a fence with some landscaping, so that's the second part and you're saying we don't have that yet? Mr. Heu: Right and I mean I believe that was the discussion the last time this issue was up and it focused on the cost of the improvements and so when you sent your communication over the response was that we would have those cost available on March 8. Ms. Yukimura: And you don't even have a ballpark figure at this point? Mr. Heu: To be honest I wasn't even expecting to be sitting here talking about this agenda item, I was just monitoring something else and one of the staff came over and asked me about the cost of the property so I... I followed up with the hundred thousand dollars and referenced back to the communication that was sent over by the Chair regarding the improvements. So I apologize that I don't have more information right now. Chair Furfaro: question from Mr. Bynum? Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Bynum: Councilwoman would you yield the floor for I'm done, thank you. When you call the meeting back to order. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo. 70 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Rapozo: I guess and Gary I apologize maybe we didn't communicate my request over across the street to have Parks here but it's referencing the December 16 memo that I sent over and it's... the approval was for a hundred and twenty -three thousand and... a hundred thousand three hundred and twenty was for land, that was the appraised value so that was obviously what we are required to pay if we went to condemnation and then the landscaping was appraised at twenty -three thousand one -fifty. The question I had because it seems like a reasonable question is the improvements, the land was... I mean that was a done deal but the improvements which is what I was hoping to get even a ballpark figure and Mr. Haigh was here and he couldn't answer it and in the letter from Lenny Rapozo, he's saying that he cannot even give us a ballpark figure, they can't give anything until March 8 when the bids go out. So my concern is what are we really looking at because from the scope, the propane tank enclosure with... and with moss rock walls, the trash bins and enclosure with moss rock walls, the signage we need to expand the parking lot and repave it by two (2) feet wider with an inch and a half of asphalt, six (6) foot aluminum fence around the property, landscaping irrigation system and then the bigger concern was the fees, we're also going to have to pay for all the legal fees, escrow fees, conveyance tax and all the documentation fees. So I kind of want to know before I send my approval, what is the even... what are we looking at a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, three hundred thousand and then is that something that's going to be covered by Federal funds, is that something that's coming out of General fund, I don't even know where the money is going to be coming from because I'm not so sure if these expenses will be covered by any of the Federal funds. So before I vote yes I kind of think we should have that information. Mr. Heu: Sure and I mean not a problem like I said first of all, I'm not going to sit here and venture a guess when the Engineer was previously here and couldn't provide that information, so you know I'm going to maintain the position of waiting to March 8 to get a cost for the improvements. Now you mentioned some other associated cost and I think if we can work with you to identify all the different cost that you would like to have identified and broken out then I think once we hit March 8, we would be in a position to provide you a comprehensive breakout of all the cost associated with the items that you just mentioned. Mr. Rapozo: Well the cost that I'm concerned is what's in the purchase agreement and it's detailed in your December 16 memo to Mr. Dale with attention to Doug Haigh and Doug was here and he did say he would have to consult with his consultant which would take him a day or two (2) or so but we have not received anything back so if you could follow up on that I'd appreciate it. Mr. Heu: Okay. And that's based on a December 16 memo. Mr. Rapozo: December 16 and we can provide you a copy. Chair Furfaro: It was also part of the discussion we had here Gary, we knew the hundred thousand... Mr. Heu: Right. 71 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Three hundred dollars and something... was for the actual land, the detail was in the twenty -six thousand something balance that we were under the impression that Doug was going to check with his consultant and give us something back that said a new young edge was six thousand dollars, the extending of the black top for two feet and one and a half inches thick was going to be (x) amount of dollars, I mean the consultant, if he didn't give us a number like that, he maybe shouldn't be a consultant. That's what we were looking for. Mr. Heu: Okay and again I apologize for not being more help to you this afternoon, I just wasn't prepared to speak on this issue. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum did you have another question? Mr. Bynum: No. Chair Furfaro: Okay so that's what we're looking for, we're clear on that. Mr. Heu: Okay, immediately following the meeting, I'm going to follow up with Councilmember Rapozo to make sure that I know exactly what the question is and... so we can go ahead and respond. Chair Furfaro: Well I appreciate that very much. Thank you Gary. . Chair Furfaro: Well I appreciate that very much. Thank you Gary. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: What's before us is approving and we're going to acquire a piece of land to complete the path along Papaloa to create a pond route. Mr. Haigh last time focused on process and that's what I want to do for a minute. Because you know I followed this project very closely for a very long time and so I made it my business to understand the processes as much as I can as a lay person. But for the people who are familiar with Papaloa, it's where Kinipopo is, the Shell station and there are resorts on the right hand side of the street, new housing on the left, you know it's kind of a premier portion of our island and if you go down Papaloa Road now, you're going to see sidewalk here, sidewalk here, no sidewalk with a puka you know and then you get into the resort areas, they were built at different times, some of them have dirt, some of them have walkways, it's not very together, so when we have this project that's using federal moneys comes in and I think the answer to Mr. Rapozo's question is this is covered by Federal funds with matching funds that came from land. So sometimes we have to buy a little portion of land, sometimes people donate land to us because they see the value of making these improvements. So as you go down Papaloa what will we end up with is sidewalks that are contiguous that go and don't have any pukas anymore and a more uniform look with a really nice pedestrian improvement, so when you go and I've met with some of the owners, you go there and they say they want to 72 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 understand it, they want to conceptualize what's this going to be like and we're saying well we need some of your property to make this fit, and they're saying well that means you got to remove this low moss rock wall and in this case my gas tank is in the way, my propane tank is in the way and so the County says yeah we want to acquire this land, we need to remove this tank, we need to replace this wall, of course we're going to pave your lot so it looks professional and there's not a whole lot of (inaudible) and those cost are probably greater than the twenty -three thousand dollars of the cost of removing the landscape and that's fine with me because when we finish, we're going to have a much improved pedestrian element on Papaloa, contiguous sidewalks, something that looks professional. We don't want to do a hog posh, you know we want it to look like where we live in a community where we do thoughtful kind of involvement. When we go through this process about proposing the route and when we go through these changes, it all has to be run through a whole bunch of people. Mr. Haigh was here last time saying how did you come up with this figure, and he said he had an appraiser, we had a second opinion appraiser and the State DOT has a whole Division to make sure that public's money is spent wisely and they review the appraisal so I have faith in the process because I've watched it work. As a Councilmember, I want updates, I want to understand the process, I can get as in engaged into the detail as much as I can, as much as I choose to but I'm not going to ask every single little tiny question, I'm going to trust the process and I'm going to trust the people that are doing it to some extent, I don't need to micromanage every detail, I probably go into more detail than most because I'm really excited about this project, I think it's a real positive thing. Having it on Papaloa, so let's see where we are because we're just about to go out to bid and then in terms of having the exact cost, when they do... they do a cost estimate we think this segment with all of it planned acquisition, these little details about landscaping and filling is going to be (x) amount of dollars, and . then they send it out to bid, the bidder has to give you line item direct cost. So when they say when the bids come back on March 8, we can tell you exactly what that wall is going to cost and exactly what that... but I don't think they go through that estimate on each little detail during that process, that would be a waste of our people's time because we know that that will come out in the process. I've learned a lot about this process, I want to give assurances to people of Kauai that there's checks and counter checks and balances including what the questions the Council ask but that's not the only checks on any public project. There are many that's built into the system, some people say too many and that's why government work cost more but it's the tax payers money so we're very careful with it. I'm ready to vote on this today. Chair Furfaro: Any more discussion here? Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: Yeah I got some discussion. First of all I'm not questioning the appraisal at all, that was in the book, I'm not questioning the appraisal. The appraisal was done by an appraiser, I'm not questioning... it's a hundred grand, it's a hundred grand. What I'm questioning is all the other additional agreements that we've made. And I guess I disagree with Mr. Bynum that this is not micromanaging, I mean micromanaging was if they came in with the figure and then I started to pound the figure, then that would be micromanaging but I don't even know the figure. Our job here on the Council is to provide the oversight, to make sure that the public's money is being spent properly and we don't even know... we don't even have a general estimate and I agree with Mr. Chair that if our consultant cannot tell us how much he estimates item (a), (b), (c), (d) then my gosh we got the wrong consultant, I have to agree with that. I have no problem 73 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 with the process but I think it goes back to the old ready, fire, aim you know we ready poom pull the trigger and then once the agreements and the approvals are done we find out that this project is well over the three hundred, four hundred, five hundred thousand dollar range, public money. I don't know if you folks been watching the news, reading the papers in Honolulu, the State is in a crisis, this county is in a crisis and like I told Mr. Heu and we had a very nice meeting the other day please do not expect me to approve a penny of non - essential expenditures until we get a better snap shot of the State's fiscal situation. I mean if it's not essential, it needs to wait until we get a snap shot, a better idea of how the State is doing. This is not essential in my opinion, I agree it's nice I think Papaloa needs this to be done but when we look at the financial situation right now, of this State and this County, I think we got to be careful and to come up and ask for a approval on a project with no estimates, I think is irresponsible, I just think it's irresponsible. And that's just my opinion, that's not micromanaging. It's I think being responsible fiscally, so with that Mr. Chair, I am not ready to vote on this today and if the action is to vote, I will vote against it. I would much rather as Mr. Heu said, we can wait to March 8 and see what it is, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura did you have something? Ms. Yukimura: No, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Then I'm going to summarize something here first of all I think it's really, really important for us to understand when we go out for a bid and I want to thank Doug Haigh, he answered all the questions accordingly and they're checks and balances and reviews on the land appraisal but then we put a twenty -three thousand dollar mark out there that said all these conditions need to be met at this dollar, well somebody was responsible for putting that number there and somebody should be able to reconcile it, all project management requires estimates. And we cannot afford to wait every time until the bids are open but somebody needs to do a better focus on the estimates and maybe this will be a test case study for us because if the number comes back forty -six thousand, fifty -six thousand then we certainly have a little bit to inquire about and how we do our estimates and what kind of work our consultants do for us but those are the kinds of things to consider. We have a motion and a second on the floor right now to approve. Okay and before we take a vote I have to remind you that there is an opportunity to make a motion to a deferral and it has to get a second but if it gets a seconded, there's no additional discussion and we come back here after March 8, so those are our choices. Is there any further discussion? Councilwoman Nakamura. Ms. Nakamura: I have a question whether this is a time sensitive action. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Heu, I'll suspend the rules again if you can answer that, if you can't answer that we'll just continue on our way. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Chair Furfaro: So I do want to know that... and it's going to lead to a second question so the rules are suspended, thank you for coming up. Councilwoman Nakamura. 74 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Heu: Again for the record Gary Heu. I don't believe that it's time sensitive from the perspective of lost of funds; however, I mean this is one of those circular discussions I think, if we had our way... can you hear me I see Councilmember Bynum... we certainly would like to get approval on this matter so that we can go ahead and move ahead. I do hear the concerns, I don't disagree that historically and it's been you know it's been a point of concern for a long time is our ability, our confidence in the types of estimates that are provided I mean that's no secret, I mean this Council have dealt with that issue, the Administration have dealt with that issue over the years. Having said that what we're seeing is and the reason why, I don't want to get into the detailed discussion on what those actual cost or what that actual cost are going to be is that in there are some recent occasion in which cost estimates and bids came out significantly lower than what we had anticipated, so we're in this little area where typically I guess I have my own level of confidence in the types of estimates that I see and I mentally always make adjustments but like I said in the more recent past we seen incidents where some of our bids have been coming in significantly under those estimates. So I know that that's not going to help you in your deliberation, I think you folks need to proceed as you see fit. Speaking for the Administration I think we're always in the position where to the extent we can, we'd like to keep projects moving, there are many things that can slow a project down and so we would look for your approval today however again going back to that sense of urgency, I do not, I can sit here in good conscience and say that we're... you know we got funding that's at risk if this is not approved today so I'm not sure if that helps or that answers your question. Ms. Nakamura: Okay that helps. The second question is what is the source of the funds for this acquisition? Mr. Heu: My belief is that and I'm sorry that I can't give you a hundred percent answer but I believe that it's federal fund, they are federal funds. There may be a portion obviously that is a county match but primarily federal funding. Ms. Nakamura: County match? Mr. Heu: with the federal funds. Chair Furfaro: actually see an answer our twenty percent? Mr. Heu: yeah. Chair Furfaro: Do you know what the percentage is of the Typically we have a eighty /twenty match So Mr. Heu on that question we might that says the twenty -six thousand is actually representing One could only hope. But best case scenario, It's possible. Mr. Heu: But again you know I'm not going to sit here, that's not my area of expertise in that. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum and then Mr. Rapozo. 75 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Bynum: Thanks for the answers Gary and my concern is that the way this is being framed is like if the cost was a hundred thousand for the land, it was twenty -three thousand for the cost of the landscape that was impacted and it seems to be an expectation from the Council that when we look at the changes that are going to happen to this property, they're going to be in the twenty -three thousand range and I think they're going to be much higher than that because it's not just the landscaping, it's moving the wall, it's moving the things you know doing the project right, the cost are not directly related to all of them to that twenty -three thousand cost. They're related to what you need to do to make this project go, I happen to be familiar with that land and there's a big propane tank that's got to get moved. It's surrounded by a wall, that wall is got to get replaced right, I don't think we're compensating the landowner and then doing those improvements that, those are separate so this linkage that I've heard over the last two (2) meetings between the twenty -three thousand and whatever these cost are for that property to make those changes I'm worried that they're going to come back here and say well it's a hundred and fifteen thousand and Councilmembers are going to say wow look at this twenty -three you know because... these issues are complex and I don't want to set up the Administration for looking incompetent when I'm seeing a lot of competence in terms of the way these things are handled. Mr. Heu: Well I don't want to prolong the discussion but I think to a certain extent I mean you're right in terms of having an understanding of... and comparing apples to apples and my understanding is that the appraisal was made on a specific set of facts. You know after reevaluating what might be the best way to proceed with the actual project if in fact conditions changed then that would impact the overall actual cost of the project. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: I guess I don't want to... the impression to be that we're stonewalling the project, I need the public to understand that we made the request actually verbally on the 15 with Mr. Haigh and in writing on the 16 and this is February 9 and you know the response I got really didn't come from Doug Haigh or Larry Dill, it came from Parks so you know I guess one could argue that it's the Administration that's stonewalling the project because they're not responding to our simple request and I just don't want the impression that we're holding up the project and I know this project is very near and dear to Mr. Bynum, I'm sorry and rightfully so... that's fine, I'm not saying that it's a bad project, I'm saying that as a Councilmember in charge of the purse strings, please provide us with the necessary information to make the decision because I can tell you if it is some outrageous amount of money and there's seven (7) people on this Council but I can tell you I'm inclined not to support it especially and the other thing too is if you look at the numbers, the purchase agreements they break it down by land and landscaping and then there's the purchase price and even if you add the land and the landscaping it comes up to an amount, it doesn't even equal to the purchase price that we paid so there's a conflict in even that and that's what's in the communication that was sent over to Mr. Dill and we have not received a response. Gary, I'm just saying we would appreciate it if we can get a response, that's December 16, it's going on more than enough time to have gotten those question answered. 76 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Heu: Yeah and again my belief is that the response that was provided to the inquiry that came over, responded to the inquiry that came over, if there are additional questions or questions that were necessarily or specifics that weren't necessarily posed in the December communication then obviously whether this Council takes action today or not, we would still feel compelled to respond to those specifics. Certainly I hate to dive into areas that I'm not more intimately familiar with however you know this is a large project and as Mr. Mickens would probably agree and like any project if you find that a component of a larger hole turns out to be more... as you move forward on the project, you may have to cut back on another section or segment and so again I don't want to speak out of school but for the relative to the concern of overreaching, over spending, not having a good handle of the estimate you know just speaking in general terms I would anticipate that that's how we would try to make adjustments for any and unanticipated cost relative to this particular segment. Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Heu. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Chair Furfaro: Let me share with you folks because I don't like when somebody implies or speaks for me so let me summarize. I have no problem voting for this today. I want the Administration to know that on or around the 15 March, I would like to have the reconciliation of the bids in front of us because the danger here is project over rise, it's a danger. It's not something that the Council should massage or something, it's something that we should expect. If somebody tells us twenty -three thousand dollars for this estimate of the project, okay let's try and be within ten percent with a contingency, let's not be twice the amount estimated or three times the amount estimated, so this would be a good test for us to get this summary reconciled and then ask the question so how did our consultant tell us this number was that. I would like to move forward and vote on this today. Again before we come to the vote, if there is enough people that want it deferred then I need to have a deferral introduced before we vote. Mr. Rapozo: I move to defer. Chair Furfaro: But I do want to say to the Administration that I plan to have this reconciliation of the landscaping, parking lot and so forth on the future agenda sometime after the 15, I think it will be a good exercise for us to go through when it comes to estimating contract work especially as you know we need to tighten up some of the project cost with understanding the total amount going forward. So Mr. Rapozo, I stated I'm prepared to vote for this with a follow up meeting on or around March 15 to reconcile those estimates. Mr. Rapozo: I'd like to vote on it too, I'm not prepared obviously I don't have the information to vote on it, so I would make a motion to defer whichever way it goes, I think we need more time, I think we are entitled to an estimate, I think we're entitled to at least a ballpark estimate prior to even requesting an approval, so I'll go ahead and make that motion to defer with no expectation of getting a second. I make a motion to defer. Defer until the next Council Meeting. Ms. Nakamura: I'll second that. 77 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Rapozo moved to defer C 2011 -69, seconded by Ms. Nakamura, and failed by a 3:4 vote (Bynum, Chang, Furfaro, Yukimura voted no). Chair Furfaro: So it passes on a deferral 4:3. Mr. Rapozo: Did it pass? I don't think, I think we need to do a roll call Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: FOR DEFERRAL I heard... Okay I'm going to call for the vote. Kawakami, Nakamura, Rapozo TOTAL — 3, AGAINST DEFERRAL: Bynum, Chang, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 4, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Mr. Nakamura: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum: Chair Furfaro: ask Mr. Chang, how did you vote? Mr. Chang: The motion fails. Okay so it has been deferred? So it has not. It has not been deferred? How am I? Can I No. Chair Furfaro: Oh, you were a no, okay. There's my error in counting. I pride myself on the fact that I did go to public school and I do know how to count. Okay we're back on the motion... Mr. Nakamura: Motion to approve. Chair Furfaro: Now I want to add a little addition to that I expect Mr. Heu, you did understood my point to having this reappear on the agenda sometime after March 8 so we can reconcile the variances in the estimate, okay? Shall we go ahead and... Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I just and if I'm being redundant I apologize, it seems to me at the last two (2) meetings there was some linkage between this twenty -three thousand and what the cost of these changes that some of the... which Councilmember Rapozo listed moving the tank, putting in fencing, I don't think those two (2) numbers are linked... you know this as I said earlier you go out there on the ground with our people, with the owner who are business people running businesses say this is what we intend to do, the business owner says yes but you know if you're going to take my wall down can you put it over here, it's in negotiation and it goes through in good faith and then we make agreements about what and come to reasonable conclusion yes if we put this path through here, it's going to have this impact on your property and we're going to mediate it in this fashion so I don't expect that those numbers are going to be twenty -three thousand and I don't want us to make a mistake in thinking those should be linked. I just wanted to make that statement. 78 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Okay and that's an item I somewhat disagree with you because what I'm saying is there was a (inaudible) that Mr. Haigh from me the last time that we should deserve the response even if it was the higher estimates. Now we're going to get to a point where they're going to open some bids, they're going to come back and tell us exactly what those numbers are and it might be something that in the future we sharpen our pencil on. I don't think it was a difficult communication from me as Chair especially since Mr. Haigh was here. So is there anymore discussion? Okay, we have a motion and a second to approve. The motion to approve C 2011 -69 was then put, and carried by a 4:3 vote (Kawakami, Nakamura, Rapozo voted no). Chair Furfaro: Passes 4:3. Next item. Oh? You know I'm going to take a deviation from the agenda, we have some follow up on the proposed bill 2399 and let's go to that now, I'm sorry four hundred (400), I'll put my glasses on. Mr. Nakamura: Council Chair. Chair Furfaro: Twenty -four hundred (2400, go ahead Mr. Clerk. Mr. Kawakami recused himself from this item. Mr. Nakamura: Council Chair, we're on page four (4) of the Council's agenda on a bill for first reading, proposed draft bill 2400. Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2400) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ARTICLE 19, CHAPTER 22, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO PLASTIC BAG REDUCTION: Mr. Bynum moved for passage of proposed draft Bill No. 2400 on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing hereon be scheduled for March 2, 2011, and that it thereafter be referred to the Public Safety & Environmental Services Committee, seconded by Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: I do have some comments. Chair Furfaro: Let me announce again, we have a motion to approve and schedule a public hearing on March 2 and we have a second by Mr. Rapozo, is there anybody in the audience that would like to give additional testimony? Okay, we're back to order and now we'll do a roll call vote. Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I just really wanted to save my comments as far as the bill and the intent although a lot of it came out in the earlier communication with the testimony but I just wanted to explain why I introduced the amendment and it's really to address the food safety issue. I've been contacted by several food service people that had a concern about the food safety. I did some research on the internet, made some phone calls, spoke to some other jurisdictions and interestingly enough many jurisdictions on the mainland that ban plastic bag exempt, completely exempt food service, pharmacies and for some reason dry cleaners. There's no requirement for those entities to use biodegradable it's just an outright exemption and for the food service establishments it's because of food 79 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 safety and it's quite common on the mainland. The amendment is specific to that, the amendment does have some room for amending for as far as the type of bag, right now it's a biodegradable bag that's compostable that can compost in a composting tub and it also provides the restaurants and food service operators to provide that single use bag that in my opinion is much more recyclable than the paper. We can use these plastic bags over and over at home. I think we come accustom to that and with some tweaking of the definition of the bag, we will have a bag that is biodegradable and compostable. It will satisfy the environmental concerns as well as the food safety concerns. This bill amendment, the amendment to the ordinance has nothing to do with the economics, I mean although the restaurants will have a break economically, that's not the intent of the bill or the amendment. The intent was specifically targeted at food safety and the fact that cross contamination of foodborne pathogens is a reality. You will never be able to track how many people got sick from a bag but the reality is no one can deny the fact that reusable bags do harbor and grow foodborne pathogen bacteria, it's a known fact and you know if we save one (1) person from an illness, I think we've done our job. The reality is I just wanted to make it clear that the intent of this was to address the food safety issue, to be a part of community of environmental awareness in line with food safety. So with that Mr. Chair thank you very much and I'm hoping we can get this passed going forward. Chair Furfaro: Any other discussion? I have two (2) things I do want to share with you, the two (2) bills earlier referenced I'm going to have circulated and one actually prohibits at the State level certain businesses in the State from distributing single use a plastic check out bags as- defined in this act with the exception it would not apply any more stringent ordinances than adopted by the counties. The other bill that's processed here is a very interesting new bag fee that's coming from the Senate bill 1363 and that bill basically allows there to be a twenty -five cent charge to offset the distribution of every non - reusable bag and it's very interesting this particular one allows thirteen cents out of every twenty -five cents to go into the State's General Fund. So we have a lot of moving parts here and I'll have this circulated by the Clerk to all of you. I want you to know also it is probably never been in my years on the Council that we would not in fact hear a bill all the way through on the first reading and to get it into Committee so that we can gather additional information so forth. At first blush I'm very pleased that we passed the plastic bag bill just at the end of last year but I'm hoping for further discussions and that's why I will support this going into Committee but at this particular time it seems like we have also gotten the attention of State Legislative bodies and that should be circulated to all of you. Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: Yeah I made my comments earlier so I wasn't going to say anything but you triggered something that I want to respond to, you know I'm going to vote for this bill on first reading because I want us to engage in the dialog. I want to you know, in future testimony talk about the critique of the one study that you know that comes from other food safety experts. The State is moving this years and both of the bills that we discussed today do not preempt the county which is a good thing so they are allowing the county that have already acted on this you know and I think part of their motivation is that the environmental protection agency praised Maui and Kauai County for these bills. We were seventh community in the Country that did this and there are many, many more since then just in the year and a half and I fully support that any Councilmember on this Council should be able to put their proposals and ideas before the public and have a full and complete dialog, that's why I can't imagine too 80 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 many circumstances where I would vote against the bill at first reading but just a few months ago I put planning bills before this Council. Fully expecting that we would have that public dialog and they were killed at first reading so I'm not going to make that same mistake about keeping our citizens from being engaged in that process. We started today with great testimony from people, we will have a public hearing on March 2 but it will go to Committee after that and you know I have my mind open to what the outcome will be. Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion before I call for the vote. Clerk we need a roll call vote. The motion for passage on first reading was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chang, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL — 6, Yukimura, Furfaro AGAINST PASSAGE: None EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Kawakami Mr. Nakamura: Six (6) ayes Mr. Chair. TOTAL — 0, TOTAL — 0, TOTAL —1. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. And there will be public opportunity as we go forward to give testimony. Next item. Mr. Nakamura: We're on page, at the bottom of page three (3) of the Council's agenda Mr. Chair on a claim, communication C 2011 -70. CLAIMS: C 2011 -70 Communication (1/19/2011) from the County Clerk, transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kauai by State Farm Mutual Insurance Co., as subrogee for Kathleen Ann Smith for damages to her vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai: Ms. Yukimura moved to refer C 2011 -70 to the County Attorney's Office for disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item. Mr. Nakamura: We're on page four (4) of the Council's agenda Mr. Chair on Committee Reports. COMMITTEE REPORTS: TABLE ENERGY STRATEGIES A report (No. CR EDR 2011 -02) submitted by the Economic Development & Renewable Energy Strategies Committee, recommending that the following be received for the record. 81 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 "EDR 2011 -02 Communication (1 -27 -2011) from Councilmember Nadine K. Nakamura, requesting the presence of the Director of Economic Development at the February 2, 2011 Committee meeting to provide an overview of the Comprehensive Economic Development Strategies (CEDS) 2010 - 2015," Mr. Bynum moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and unanimously carried. Mr. Nakamura: Mr. Chair next matters are three (3) Resolutions these would be Resolution No. 2011 -36, Resolution No. 2011 -37, and Resolution No. 2011 -38. RESOLUTIONS: Resolution No. 2011 -36, RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL APPOINTMENT TO THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION (John Harold Low): Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2011 -36 until the interviews are scheduled, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried. Resolution No. 2011 -37, RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL APPOINTMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION (Wayne Kazuo Katayama): Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2011 -37 until the interviews are scheduled, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried. Resolution No. 2011 -38, RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL APPOINTMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION (Herman John Texeira). Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2011 -38 until the interviews are scheduled, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried. Chair Furfaro: Next item. Mr. Nakamura: Next matter is a bill for first reading, . proposed draft bill no. 2399. BILL FOR FIRST READING: Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2399) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 23, OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE REGULATION OF BUSINESS AND TRADES: Mr. Bynum moved to approve proposed draft Bill No. 2399 on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing hereon be scheduled for March 9, 2011, and that it thereafter be referred to the Economic Development & Renewal Energy Strategies Committee, seconded by Mr. Rapozo. Chair Furfaro: Anybody in the audience that wishes to speak? Seeing none, any further discussion here? If not. Ms. Yukimura: Yes, Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead. Councilwoman. Ms. Yukimura: I think we have an amendment. 82 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Mr. Kawakami moved to amend Rill No. 2399 as circulated, seconded by Mr. Rapozo. Chair Furfaro: The floor is yours sir. Mr. Kawakami: Thank you Mr. Chair and thank you Councilmembers. The amendment here, hold on... I wish I could discuss the bill first before going into this but that's alright. The amendment here does two (2) things, one (1) is that it requires the vendors to maintain an inventory of products that are going to be offered for sale, and two (2) it allows the Office of Economic Development to conduct inspections on vendors, farms or areas of manufacturing this service. An important purpose, one (1) we do need to have what they call a gate keeping mechanism in place so that the Office of Economic Development can have specific list of what products are offered for sale. And you know that's a common practice in the retail industry so that people are not just coming in, putting in whatever they want for sale in the Sunshine markets, and two (2) it allows OED to go in and make sure that these products are being grown and manufactured on Kauai, so that's just the amendment. Any questions? Chair Furfaro: Seems like there's no questions. There's an opportunity right now to vote on this amendment. All those interest... and any questions as I close the questions period? No. Okay... all those in favor of the amendment. The motion to approve the amendment as circulated by Mr. Kawakami was then put, and unanimously carried. (see Attachment 1) Chair Furfaro: Now we'll go on from there. Mr. Nakamura: We're at the proposed draft bill 2399 as amended for roll call Mr. Chair. Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: Did you want to add anything about the actual bill, I'm sorry if I went straight to the amendment. Mr. Kawakami: Sure, okay. This bill does a few things, before I get into it, a couple of thank you's, I want to thank the politicians involved earlier on that created the Sunshine Markets, I believe Councilmember Yukimura was a Councilmember at the time when the first Sunshine Market was established. I believe in the early 80s? Ms. Yukimura: 70s, late 70s. Mr. Kawakami: Late 70s. So I was still. Ms. Yukimura: 78. Were you born? Mr. Kawakami: So back then. And it's really blossomed and it created an opportunity for our farmers and for that I want to say thank you, two (2) you are going to notice that the bill does piggyback on an already established 83 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 program, it is the Kauai Made program. I'd like to thank people like Beth Tokioka and also our Council Chair Furfaro who introduced that bill by request at that time. Folks this bill does a few things, seven (7) things and now with the amendment it now does eight (8) things but the first seven (7) things that it does is number one (1) it allows Kauai farmers to sell value added products in our Sunshine Markets. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kawakami. Mr. Kawakami: Yes. Chair Furfaro: I'm going to let you start with item two (2), he has a tape change. Mr. Kawakami: Sure. Chair Furfaro: We're taking a break for a tape change. There being no objections, the Council recessed at 2:54 p.m. The Council reconvened at 2:59 p.m., and proceeded as follows` Chair Furfaro: We're back and I will. recognize Mr. Kawakami who had the floor at the time of our break. Mr. Kawakami: Thank you Mr. Chair. Number two (2) in light of challenges that were highlighted earlier it allows vendors to offer for sale recyclable or paper bags that comply with our ordinance so that the vendors can recoup some of their cost. Number three (3) deletes reference to the Department of Public Works and replaces it with Department of Parks and Recreation, four (4) it sets parameters to which vendors who are offering value added. products, it sets parameters that they must comply with, number one (1) they must participate in the Kauai Made Program and the reason why is because Kauai Made is a County program and they have already established standards that answer many of the concerns that some of the Administration had when I was working on this, two (2) it requires manufacturers to use a certified kitchen and acquire permits from the Department of Health. Three (3), they must display permits at the point of sale. Next one is that they must sign off with OED that the product complies with the intent of section 23 -3.4 and it also requires that local Kauai grown agricultural products are utilized in the production and doesn't take into consideration the value and labor, intellectual property, or packaging, etc., into the manufacturing process. So in a nutshell what that means is that the ingredients has to be grown on Kauai and they're not going to take into account that I live on Kauai and it's a Kauai idea, so it's Kauai Made and then import all their ingredients, the ingredients need to be grown on Kauai. Number five (5) it sets the parameters of the number of value added vendors to a ratio of 1/8 and the reason for that is we did not want to take away the original intent of the Sunshine Markets which was for growers but as we evolve we want to increase the opportunity and profitability of farmers, we're starting off with this ratio of 1/8 so what that means is that in Koloa where you have thirty -two (32) vendors, you have four (4) that will be value added vendors. Kalaheo which has eight (8) vendors, you'd only have one (1). Kapa`a has fifty -six (56) vendors, so you would have seven (7) slots of available for value added vendors. Hanap6pe has fourteen (14), which would allow two (2). Kilauea has eighteen (18) which would allow two (2), Lihu`e has forty -seven (47) which would allow six (6), 84 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Kekaha has seven (7) which would allow one (1). Folks that's what is contained in this bill. Do you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Chair Furfaro: I'm going to go ahead and recognize Mr. Bynum first followed by Councilwoman Yukimura as, thank you Mr. Kawakami for summarizing the bill, Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: Thanks Councilmember for your leadership on this issue and I just have one question about the value added... you know many, some of our vendors who currently sell produce also have value added products, would they have to get a permit, be one of the eight (8) or... so that's just a technical question or would that 1/8 ratio would that be just for a value added only booth? Mr. Kawakami: That's a very good question. From my understanding and we can send over a note to get that clarified, from what I understand whether you're an existing vendor or not the total amount of value added vendors that would be permitted would be eight (8), so whether that person already has a booth and now has a product would still be counted towards that total inventory. Mr. Bynum: Thanks for answering that question and then just a comment if I may now. Mr. Kawakami: Sure. Mr. Bynum: Again thank you for working on this bill because we've been talking about this forever and I think this Council passed a Resolution requesting information from the Administration when I talked to them about it, they're like we're working on it so I'm glad that we are at the point where we have a bill. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Councilwoman Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Yes, I also really appreciate your leadership and that this bill is being introduced. My question is in terms of your value added vendors, will that be a first come, first serve application process. Mr. Kawakami: That's another good question and that is part of the discussion you know I got to give credit where credit is due, this is not only my partaking, we've been working with George Costa, Bill Splitz, and Terry Phillips and so part of the process is we got to come up with these rules, Administrative rules and so one of the things that we're discussing right now is we're working on this parallel platform is how they would come about with that selection process. So first come, first serve was definitely a consideration and another consideration and it happens in the private sector, I don't know how it would translate over to this, is that the Office of Economic Development would have the latitude to go ahead and screen some of these products coming across and decide what would be a good fit for the Sunshine Markets and make the necessary you know decision making as far as. who gets in and who doesn't get in. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for your answer and I think then we might want to consider an amendment that makes the effective date of this ordinance or at least gives room for rule making before you know the program is 85 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 actually in effect and the lawyers need to figure out the language but something that recognizes there's going to be some rule making before things can actually get into operation. Mr. Kawakami: That thought did cross my mind and thank you for bringing it up. I figured that the easiest thing to do is to just if we run into a period where we're ready to vote on the bill and yet the rules have not been created, then we could just defer it but if you want to set a date or however which way, I just figured you know we'll defer it, I'm. not in a rush, I'm not rushing the Administration to come up with rules because I know they're working on it. It's something they bought in to so I figure there's two (2) routes we could go. One (1) you could set a date or put in language saying that this ordinance take effect upon the approval on any Administrative rules or two (2) we could just go ahead and defer it. But whichever which way is easiest. Ms. Yukimura: We can confirm with Attorneys before the public hearing but usually you pass the bill to authorize the rule making. Mr. Kawakami: Okay. Chair Furfaro: Mr.. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: The existing bill, the Sunshine Market bill already addresses the rule making, it's in Section 1, I believe it's (c)(1) the Director of Office of Economic Development consultations, with the amended version that will say Parks, is authorized to promogate the rules and regulations relating to the area and so forth, so the rule making authority is already there, they just need to amend the rules and they have their... I guess if it's going to be lottery or however it's going to be handled in the rules of the department in my mind, I guess as how I see it. So the authority is already there in the existing Sunshine Market ordinance. Ms. Yukimura: But. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura if you want to add to that, go right ahead. Ms. Yukimura: Well if the original ordinance authorized value added products then that rule making and the present law will be sufficient... Mr. Rapozo: It does. Ms. Yukimura: Value added? Mr. Rapozo: Well that's the amendment... he's amending the existing law and in the amendment we're adding in value added products in that rule making authority. bill. Ms. Yukimura: Well that's why you would have to pass this Mr. Rapozo: Right. 86 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: In order to have the rule making that applies to value added. Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Chair Furfaro: Okay? So is there any more discussion? Nadine did you have your hand up? Go right ahead. Ms. Nakamura: I just wanted to thank you Councilmember Kawakami for drafting this bill. I wanted to just say that I had gotten some concerns about the vendors and Sunshine Market who right now don't have the authority to sell recyclable bags so thank you for including that in this bill. I think it just creates a level playing field, so thank you for doing that. I wanted to, I'm just wondering is it better to be asking, discussing it here or in Committee? Chair Furfaro: We can discuss it here, we can... Ms. Nakamura: Either place? Okay. I would like to, I know there was a comment earlier about the definition about value added and how much of that product ought to be Kauai based and I think that's one (1) area that I'd like to explore more and I also had a discussion with an insurance person who mentioned that they are looking at developing a product whereby rather than individual vendors getting their own million dollar product liability coverage that there be kind of like umbrella that they participate in to make it more affordable. I don't know if that's something that we would want to address. Mr. Kawakami: Can I respond to that? Chair Furfaro: Yes. Mr. Kawakami: Thank you very much, that brings up a very, two (2) very good points, one (1) you know in the Kauai Made Program there is no definitive percentage of what constitutes you know that ingredient or that formula that says... all it says it's a substantial amount so I am plugging along and George is working with a clear definition as to what that would be so one (1) very good point and we're working on it. Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Mr. Kawakami: As far as the insurance you know I did do a little research into that and there's a website Farmers Market Coalition. Org and it is insurance options for Farmers Markets but I think it's more geared to the market itself, so what they've done here they have like a coop insurance where all these different vendors can come in and be covered under an umbrella plan and so of the stats that they came up with are pretty interesting when you think about the insurance side. Some of the stuff like thirty -nine (39) percent of markets require that their vendors purchase liability insurance but 1/3 of these markets do not require proof of purchase, so that kind of goes into what Ken Taylor was speaking about. Fifty -three percent (53 %) of markets require that their vendors purchase general liability insurance and then it goes to say, it gives you some stats as to and I can't find it right now but it did have an interesting statistics about certain farmers market that their insurance covers all the vendors. But in this case we will be requiring the individual vendor to carry a one million dollar product liability 87 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 insurance so the two (2) quotes that I did get because there are some cost associate with this venture you know there is no such thing as a free lunch and still the county, we got to protect our taxpayers from any kind of liability. The two (2) quotes I got range and I'm going to go on the high side between five hundred and eight hundred a year which breaks down to roughly about forty -two, dollars or seventy dollars a month and then another cost, while we're on cost it's associated with this is to participate in the Kauai Made Program which is about fifty bucks a year. But with that they get some POS material, they get the stickers, they get on the brochures, so they get on the marketing. But it is a good point on the insurance and I would like to take a deeper look and when we get to Committee level, I'm sure it's going to come up. Ms. Nakamura: And just lastly, I don't know how many of you have gone to that Hilo market, you know sometimes we plan trips around that market being open but that the you know I think there's a lot of value added products at that market and and you hit on it when you said that that's taking it from the raw product to something that's going to bring much more value, it almost should be promoted and I'm a little concerned about the 1/8, I think I understand what you're trying to protect but also to give the farmers greater economic opportunities. So that's something I'd like to look at. Chair Furfaro: Go ahead Mr. Kawakami. Mr. Kawakami: I totally agree because the trend is coming from the retail side and when you think about how can we create more opportunity, and more profitability for farmers, when you can take a raw product and create a value to it and market it, that's where the profitability really bumps up. So I agree and I got to tell you that the 1/8 was an attempt to strike the right balance. Because this is a new venture, we didn't want to get too ambitious about it, we figured that 1/8 would be a good starting point and then like anything else the market is going to dictate the demand and the behavior so if this thing starts rolling you know that 1/8 will go down to 1/ maybe 1/2 and so on and so forth but to gain traction on this, I sit in a unique spot with my other job where I actually sit on the board and then I'm a part of the administration side and I've learned that it's easier to implement your ideas if you can buy in from the guys that are responsible to administering it so this is something that we came to a compromise with. And it's something they can definitely buy into and so we're starting at that 1/8. Chair Furfaro: Very good, very good. Councilwoman Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Yes I think the 1/8 is a good starting point and then testing it. I just wanted to say I did give, when Ms. Tokioka was the head of OED, copies of the Davis California's market and all their rules, so there is that and in that market they had actually had chefs preparing food that you can eat there on site, with the same kinds of requirements that they'd be made from produce that was grown within a certain radius of Davis California, so that's another level we can look at but we need to take one step at a time. Those rules covered that, it was a Saturday market and it was a wonderful community event, so I think you're increasing the visibility and the attractiveness of customers to the market by this and you're definitely increasing the productivity and the profitability of farmers. 88 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Well we can have more of that discussion as it goes through public hearing and then it ends up in Nadine's Committee. Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I don't want to belabor that but what caught my attention I think your answer is very thoughtful and you know and the intellectual property thing, so basically you can't just have this idea that I'm on Kauai that's very important because we don't want this markets to turn into flee markets, t- shirts and all that kind stuff right? So it's that balance and you obviously given a lot of thought, so thank you. Mr. Kawakami: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: You have the floor. Mr. Kawakami: Actually, no. Chair Furfaro: You're good? Okay any further discussion before I call for the vote? Councilwoman Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: I just wanted to let you know that I have a Resolution here that was passed by the Council 2006 -06 draft 1 and I just noticed that it was passed on February 8, 2006 so it's like five (5) years to the week and it's a Resolution requesting the Administration to promote and allow agricultural products grown and processed on Kauai at the Kauai Sunshine Markets and I worked on this with Louisa Wooten and so I just wanted to really thank Councilmember Kawakami for bringing what is really overdue to fruition and I really think it's... it's the next level for our Sunshine Markets and I think it's going to be an extremely good thing for our island. Mr. Kawakami: Mr. Chair, two (2) points. Chair Furfaro: You have the floor. Mr. Kawakami: Thank you. As much as I would like to say that I've timed this introduction as this bill to coincide with your Resolution, I cannot but eh what a coincidence but number two (2) you know I got to tell you the truth Ms. Wooten is one of the main reasons why I did this thing because we go to the Kapa`a one and sometimes we see her almost like an outcast and I mean she's extremely popular, she has a great product and we just felt that it was a shame that she didn't have at least an opportunity to get in there like everybody else and I wanted to say thanks to the farmers that are out there keeping the dream alive and you know if it hadn't been for you, we will not be here today so thank you too. Thank you for all the Councilmembers for their consideration for this bill. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Now on that note this is a roll call vote. The motion for passage of Bill No. 2399 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chang, Kawakami, Nakamura, TOTAL — 7, Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro 89 COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011 AGAINST PASSAGE: None EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None ADJOURNMENT. TOTAL — 0, TOTAL — 0. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:19 p.m. Respectfully submitted, PETER A. N URA County Clerk /ds A-t`*,byyie, - I (February 9, 2011) FLOOR AMENDMENT Bill No. 2399, Relating to Regulation of Business and Trades INTRODUCED BY: Derek S. K. Kawakami (by request) Amend Bill No. 2399, Sec. 23- 3.4(e) to read as follows: "(e) The County shall require each individual vendor who will be selling produce grown on Kauai and value -added product(s) at the Sunshine Market to comply with the following: (1) Shall obtain a permit from the Office of Economic Development to become a qualified vendor to utilize the "Kaua'i-Made" logomark according to Sec. 23 -5.4. Vendors of both produce and /or value -added products shall submit an inventory of items being sold that meet this criteria. The vendor shall maintain membership in good standing in [the Kaua'i Made program] either pro am (whichever applies) [so] as long as the vendor sells produce and /or value-added e -added product(s) in the Sunshine Markets. (2) Shall prepare value -added product(s) in a certified kitchen as specified by the Department of Health, state and federal laws, including but not limited to, labeling laws, and shall furnish the copies of the permit(s) to the Office of Economic Development as partial evidence of suitability for the product to be sold in the Sunshine Markets. (3) Shall obtain and display at the Sunshine Market site(s) all requisite permits furnished by the Department of Health and shall comply with any and all requirements of the Department of Health for retail sales at the Sunshine Market sites without any obligation on the part of the County of Kaua'i to assist such vendor or adapt the markets as a result of the sale of processed products. (4) Shall sign an acknowledgment furnished by the Director of the Office of Economic Development that the vendor is bound by the intent of Sec. 23 -3.4, that the Sunshine Markets are for the sale of agricultural products grown on Kauai, and that the Director has sole discretion as to whether the product meets the intent of Sec. 23 -3.4 after reviewing all pertinent evidence furnished by the vendor[.], including, but not limited to the inspection of the vendor's farms or area where produce is grown and /or manufactured The test for meeting said intent shall be the relative utilization of local Kauai grown agricultural products in the final product and not the value of labor, intellectual property, packaging or other factors or other components used. in the final product for determining whether or not the product meets the intent 1 0,1 cr Ins copy -61'11 NO -a399 Atach men+ I of this ordinance. (5) The Director of the Office of Economic Development shall set the number of permits for value -added products at a ratio of no more than one - eighth (1/8) of the total vendor stalls available for each market. The total number of permits is set at the sole discretion of the Director. (6) The Director of the Office of Economic Development may establish fees for vendors participating in the Sunshine Market. (7) Vendors of value added products shall carry product liability insurance in the amount of One - Million Dollars ($1,000,000.00) naming the County of Kauai as an additional insured party of the policy. Vendors shall submit notice of renewal to the County on each anniversary of said product liability insurance policy or whenever a new product is added to the policy or upon vending of a new product in the market." (Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.) 2 cIert�_'s Capp -13; 39 9