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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/24/2011 COUNTY COUNCIL SITE VISIT - KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEXCOUNTY COUNCIL SITE VISIT KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kauai, was called to order by the Council Chair Jay Furfaro at the Council Chambers, 3371 -A Wilcox Road, Lihu`e, Kauai, on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 8:34 a.m. Chair Furfaro: Thank you everyone for being here, I would like to convene this meeting that will reflect a special trip to Po`ipu as a group to the heiau that is in the Po`ipu area. Rupert Rowe will be giving us a presentation there. You might have gotten from Peter Morimoto a packet like this with all the background on the heiau; if not I can make extra copies for anyone to take with them. Does anyone need an extra copy? After the presentation we will return here to the Chambers and reconvene the meeting and provide us an opportunity directed at Mr. Rowe. I think in general the perception of the meeting is a site visit; I did this before when I was on the Planning Commission. You can get an overview but you should keep your Q &A to a minimum at the site just to get an overview and keep your questions for back in the session here where we can appropriately record the discussion and so forth. So are we ready to leave in about five (5) minutes? Do you want to call the roll? The following members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Dickie Chang Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura Honorable Mel Rapozo Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura Honorable Jay Furfaro There being no objections, the Council recessed at 8:35 a.m. The Council reconvened at 9:15 a.m., at Kaneiolouma Heiau Complex, Po`ipu, and proceeded as follows: The Council meeting reconvened at the Kaneiolouma Heiau. Rupert Rowe met the Council in the parking lot adjacent to the Waiohai Hotel. He showed the Council the fish pond (bisected by Hoowili Road). Mr. Rowe told the Council that the fish pond floods as a result of the grading and grubbing in connection with the development mauka of Po`ipu Road. Mr. Rowe also pointed out an area within the fishpond that had been raised by the County to accommodate Japanese tourists' weddings. The area was surrounded by water and appeared to be inaccessible. Mr. Rowe then led the Council across Hoowili Road to the Brennecke's Restaurant parking lot. He showed the Council some dirt and debris from Hurricane Iniki that had been pushed into the brush, creating a berm. The Council was led mauka through the brush into an area that had been cleared. Mr. Rowe then led the Council on a tour of the Kaneiolouma Heiau. Towards the mauka end of the heiau, Mr. Rowe showed the Council an area that was filled with water and reedy plants. Mr. Rowe told the Council that the water ponds in that section of the heiau because of the same grading activities that caused the fishpond to flood. 2 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Rowe told the Council that the area needed a wall four feet high with a base that was four feet wide rising to a three foot wide crown for security purposes. Mr. Rowe told the Council that rocks and artifacts had been removed from an area surrounding a pre- contact house pad. Mr. Rowe then took the Council to the highest point of the heiau, which offered sweeping views of the entire complex. Mr. Rowe said that the heiau sat on approximately an acre and a half of land. His hui did not want to clear the brush adjacent to Hoowili Road because the heiau was better left unexposed for security. Mr. Rowe told the Council that in order to properly restore the heiau, it was important to acquire the property where the Nukomoi surf shop was located. This could be used as an entrance to the heiau. Mr. Rowe believes that in addition to its cultural and historic importance, the heiau had economic value, as well. Mr. Rowe said that he has been discussing the acquisition with Mayor Carvalho and Parks Director Lenny Rapozo. After Mr. Rowe's presentation concluded at 10:26a.m., the Councilmembers returned to the Council Chambers. The Council reconvened at 11:19 a.m.at the Council Chambers, and proceeded as follows: Chair Furfaro: I'd like to call to order this meeting to order on May 24, 2011 as we recessed to actually go to the site and get a briefing on the heiau complex. First of all I want to thank you very much Rupert for hosting us there and welcoming us and giving us personal testimony on visiting the site and certainly its value to the community and on that note I'm going to suspend the rules so we can perhaps start some dialog and maybe start it from any table position we want, I'm sure everybody would like to pose a few questions. We are recording this meeting as posted. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Mr. Rapozo: I'll start. I don't have too much questions but I just want to say thank you of that opportunity. I was not aware of what was back there and I think somebody said it was magical, I can't remember if it was JoAnn or what... but it was definitely an experience and I'm sure others have questions but for me it's really just an opportunity for you to let us know what we can do. I know we talked about the property next to the restaurant... it's Noku... Chair Furfaro: Nukumoi. Mr. Rapozo: Nukumoi. So whatever we can do to help, I don't know if there's much we can do but whatever there is that we can do as the Council do. You definitely have my support because I want to see that thing finished in my lifetime and there's not much years left so we got to hurry up. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: May I ask you before I recognize another Councilmember, do you know or I'll ask the staff to research it... what the zoning at Nukumoi would be? Is it Open? RUPERT ROWE: It's Open, Public, and Culture. 3 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rowe: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rowe: JOHN STEM: Mr. Rowe: Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rowe: Open, Public, Culture. Yes. Could you... For the record my name is Rupert Rowe. John Stem. He's my treasurer. He's the treasurer of the organization? Yes. Chair Furfaro: Okay. So you know it to be Open, Public, Cultural... do you know the square footage at that area by chance? Mr. Rowe: I think it's an acre and a half but I could be wrong. Chair Furfaro: This was once a YMCA site? Mr. Rowe: Yes. Chair Furfaro: And do you know if it was ever committed for any honoring purpose of... like to the Veterans or... Mr. Rowe: I think it was set up for nonprofit, I don't know how it changed to become a commercial but everything happened after the hurricane. Chair Furfaro: Which hurricane you're talking about? Mr. Rowe: 92. Chair Furfaro: 92. Vice Chair Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Yes, thank you. First of all Mr. Chair, I want to thank you for initiating this excursion and trip, it was really eye opening I think for all of us and it's something that you couldn't really understand without actually visiting, so thank you very much. Thank you Rupert and John and your Hui for hosting us. The work... you know I've seen it before and to see the work you've done to open up the place and clear it and show its amazing value is really wonderful and I know how long you've held this vision for the place through thick and thin and now it's finally beginning to unfold in a positive way thanks to your work and your efforts. Also the report that you developed with Mr. Hickman was really helpful in also understanding the cultural and historical significance and it lays out real clearly what the value could be to the community if it's well developed as a historical and cultural site. Thank you for that. I guess a few of the questions I have, we have money in the budget, this year's budget that is going to be before us tomorrow for fencing of the area and that plan is for a chain link fence? 4 KANEIOLOUMA HEIA.0 COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Rowe: To make everything uniform towards the culture, you need to put a rock wall, you know... to make it look nice and everything because once you do it, it's forever. So I cannot tell you but I figure seven hundred fifty thousand, just a rough figure, for the outside wall. Ms. Yukimura: Okay so I don't think we have that much in the budget. Mr. Rowe: I think there's a hundred thousand. Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Mr. Rowe: Yes. So two (2) years ago I think there was a little more than that. Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Rowe: I don't know what happened. Ms. Yukimura: Okay well I mean, I guess, I mean when I asked the Administration whether the money was in the budget they said yes but it may not be sufficient for your total plan. But that's what I was also wondering, I mean you had the application for funds for a master plan? Yeah? In the report? Mr. Rowe: Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Rowe: I think you're looking at. Ms. Yukimura: your Hui? Mr. Rowe: Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Rowe: looking at. What you're reading yeah? Yes, it's had a project summary. That was a grant that the county went after; I see. The county went for it rather than Yeah. But they knew what was happening. I see. So I got to look at the document that you're Ms. Yukimura: I see, yes. I see now that it's portions of the Preserve America grant application written by Beth Tokioka submitted February 12, 2010 so last year. Because these are moneys for a development of a master plan so do you know whether moneys were received or granted for this? Mr. Rowe: The grant didn't come through. Ms. Yukimura: It didn't come through. Mr. Rowe: That's why in my venture in getting grants and getting this whole thing and putting everything together, I learned that if one (1) doesn't work then you must find another avenue. 5 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: That's right. Mr. Rowe: So I have. found A &B foundation. They're interested in the restoration of the place. Ms. Yukimura: So how much money was the.... for... was being requested for a grant for a master plan? Mr. Rowe: Okay see... when it comes to the kala... everybody wants to know how much the County's going to do on every organization on the outside. Starting with OHA, they want to know what the county is going to do so they can match what you folks are going to do. Ms. Yukimura: Right. Well in order for the County to think of what they can do or should do, we kind of need to know the total amount that's being requested. Mr. Rowe: I'll get that all ready... Ms. Yukimura: Could you get that? Mr. Rowe: ...in June when Randy Wichman gets back from Tahiti. Ms. Yukimura: Okay. That would be good. And... Mr. Rowe: That is the restoration and everything. Ms. Yukimura: Well it would be the master plan for what's going to be the end result and how you're going to get there right? Mr. Rower Yes. Ms. Yukimura: I would guess... with some budget or something. Mr. Rowe: Yes we have that all made out. Ms. Yukimura: Okay, that would be great to get the information. In terms of your fencing you're thinking about a four (4) foot rock wall? Right? Or how high? Mr. Rowe: Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Rowe: bottom and two (2) on the top. Ms. Yukimura: you're talking about the width? Four (4) feet high. Four (4) feet high? Yes. Four (4) feet high, three (3) on the Three (3) feet and then two (2) feet or... Mr. Rowe: Yeah you build it like a pyramid. KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Rowe: come square. Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Rowe: Ms. Yukimura: out. no MAY 24, 2011 Oh I see. So as time goes on, it will drop down and it'll Okay. Gravity takes care of that after the years... Alright, alright. But that won't keep people Mr. Rowe: I think the integrity of the wall itself does keep you out on how you respect the culture as a whole, when you visit Hawaii and I never seen anybody climb over any walls on the other islands. So I don't see any problem here on Kauai. Ms. Yukimura: So having that four (4) foot wall as a definition of the boundaries works well in terms of... Mr. Rowe: Okay so it would be... the wall would go up from the fishpond to the top of the road, when you turn right to go to the Hyatt, it will come half way because there's a dip over there so they cannot run the wall, and you have to stop it on the top. And then continue it again and then come down on that road where you folks came out from Billy's house. The plan for that whole thing over there, I'm going to try to give it right now... on the rock wall and everything. One way coming into Po`ipu Beach Park, turn left by Brennecke's Restaurant, turn left by Springwater's house up to Billy going out, right at that corner when you turn left is a two (2) way traffic to Brennecke's Beach and two (2) way traffic to the Waiohai when you come down to the Beach Park. As we go forth we wanted in the plan was to put parking along the highway coming down into the park because we wanted to restore the Fish Pond. On the left hand side we'll make plaques along the walkway so you can see the heiau and read what is in there. Restore the one (1) fishpond, the other two (2) you have to clean it up, all the rocks that you see in there was done because of the hurricane and the reason they pushed it in, nobody really thought it was going to be as important as it is today, as you folks walked in there, that's easy to clean. Get Nukumoi Surf Shop, put the wall that you folks seem Weliweli and Koloa all the way down through the Nukumoi property, maybe in the county park we put a small wall so nobody get hurt, or a chain link fence or something like that just to let the public know that this side of the fence is Koloa and that side of the fence is Weliweli, just something for... you know... the mind to look at what was of the past. So what we're doing is we have two (2) ahupuaa's right there at Nukumoi so we give a little history on that. Then I have Kehau Nesmith, he will become my culture education, he's getting his degree in Polynesian study and Hawaiian language, he's from the Westside of Kauai. He should be back in June, he's a regular school teacher. Randy Wichman is drawing the layout of everything, we'll do an in house restoration. I think on the financial end, what I learned on putting this site together, it will be much cheaper if we do everything from the Trust and OHA and everybody else, they're all waiting to see what I bring forth but I need to know what frame of mind the Council is in. I know the what frame of mind the Administration is in through the Parks Department and through my communication with the County, I deal with Mauna Kea. I let him know what's taking place, everything that we do down there, we come back to... and KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 let the County know and then I just trying to make everything fast and then the wall to me on the outside is an important wall. We have all the materials there. To have the community and everything, I kept it kind of silence because when you do cultural sites, your hand cannot be lepo which means your hand cannot be dirty when you touch the pohaku because the pohaku in the culture is life and it's how you put life back and restore what is there of the past. The kupunas of the past are very happy to see what all of mankind will have in the future. Because that heiau is the future and the future is the presence as we all seen it in this Council today. So you folks had a chance to taste what was the mana about by coming in there and seeing what is at stake. So with that, what I'm trying to say to you folks, I'm glad that you folks had the chance to come in there. I brought OHA in there, I brought the Trustee Lindsey in there, he wrote a letter about us in a book and he's going to set it up for the true... all of the trustees to come there and get involved. So it's... I have to have each person... it's better to take you there and see the site than to just talk about it because you really don't deliver the message by talking about it, you have to be on the aina and feel the aina and then you can feel the mana at the same time. Make a very uniform decision of what's needed to be done whether it will cost you more or cost you less, I need to know that figure then I can go out and solicit the other trustees out there or work with the county on Economic Development Leilani (sic) Brun does some of our grant writing for us. I know there's a lot of money out there on cultural restoration. I learn through doing this over the thirteen (13) years that we've been down there, this organization we have moved things that have moved very fast in going through the system, that's what I learned. And we have the Land Trust, I know they had a meeting on the 15th but they want to know the County's position if you folks are interested in buying Nukumoi and they'll put it... their input with the County. So I talked to Dale Bonner, I think he's the Executive Director of the Hawaiian Island Land Trust, they're very interested in participating with the County on purchasing Nukumoi. So they wanted to know your positions if you folks are going to go after Nukumoi or not, so I can't speak for the government, I can only speak for the culture and what is the necessity for us to go forward. Ms. Yukimura: Has there been any discussion with the owner, Knudsen? Mr. Rowe: Well back in 2002, the property was up for sale and the County never took an advantage of it back then because we were trying to stop the zoning and put a house on the property because once they CPR the lot, it became a little harder and cost a little more when you CPR. But I think the leverage of this property is very unique because there's no other property that is Open, Public, Culture that identifies the culture itself. So it really gives the county a little bit... and I think the Knudsens would sell. Ms. Yukimura: And so the property has been CPRd? Mr. Rowe: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: Into two (2) pieces or do you know? Mr. Rowe: I think three (3). Ms. Yukimura: And the Hui would like to purchase all three (3) parcels? Mr. Rowe: You have to take the whole thing. 8 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Rowe: Because there were (inaudible) sites that was- illegally grubbed and graded back then and I think JoAnn was in... went after Public Works but there was a small fine (inaudible) against what was done in there. It was done over the weekend, so when you walk in there, when you went over that little hill, that was the illegal grubbing and grading done by the landowner. And then all the rubbish past that was the County that bulldozed it in and really never took the time to clean it but wasn't important at that time. That was to clear it up for the hurricane so that's why the houses are all pushed in there, that was the nurses houses that was on the beach side before the hurricane. So it was right across the YMCA. Ms. Yukimura: And the waves washed it in after the hurricane? Mr. Rowe: Yeah took it all the way in. Actually never took it in, took it on the road and on the beach. Ms. Yukimura: And then the County pushed it in? Mr. Rowe: And then the County equipment and whoever was cleaning there... but what I learned after that hurricane, all the natural resources that comes from the ocean should be put back in the ocean. I think you folks should put it in one of your rules... to put back the sand in the ocean, that's why the sand that is in Po`ipu Beach park is gone because they took it after the hurricane. Chair Furfaro: Would the Councilwoman yield the floor for another member? Ms. Yukimura: Yes I'm done, thank you. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum. Mr. Bynum: I have a bunch of questions, I just want to make sure... and I'll try to go through it quickly, I want to make sure I'm grounded with this. And it starts with saying thank you for taking us to Kaneiolouma? And I want to know how I'm doing with my pronunciation. Mr. Rowe: Pretty close. Mr. Bynum: Kani... o... Ms. Yukimura: Kane... Mr. Rowe: Kane... i... olo... uma. Mr. Bynum: Lo... uma? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: Okay so not luma at the end... 9 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Rowe: Olo... uma... Mr. Bynum: Okay. I'm working on it. So I want to start with the things that impact the site that may be not directly on it and that's the water and so basically you're saying there was one (1) big fishpond, right? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: But then it got divided by the road? Mr. Rowe: Yes. Mr. Bynum: So now there's the Brennecke's side and the County parking lot side? Mr. Rowe: Yes. Mr. Bynum: And the County created that manmade island in the middle of the fishpond on the... Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: ... side... and you're advocating that that get all cleaned out? And if the two (2) fishponds were connected and cleaned out, it might mitigate the flooding that happens, right? Have I got that right? Mr. Rowe: Yeah because you're taking dirt out of a pond right? Mr. Bynum: Right. Mr. Rowe: Because if you put dirt in there, then water does not go down, it comes above the dirt, so if you clean out the dirt, the water drops. Mr. Bynum: Okay, so last time we were... we had discussed the flooding issues at Council a few years ago, Parks got permission about how to mitigate should a flood come by pumping the water into the rocks across and letting it seep into the ground but we never really took any action to address the root problem that water is not coming and I don't know what happened to that right off hand but we... you know we were going to do studies to determine what's the best way to mitigate this, I think that's just stalled. Mr. Rowe: Okay let me answer that question for you. Mr. Bynum: Yes. Mr. Rowe: Through Parks and Department of Army Corps of Engineer, they're going to come in there and I'm going to be involved with them when they do come on the site over there. Mr. Bynum: So there is some moment about studying, how to mitigate the... 10 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Rowe: I believe so. Mr. Bynum: And I can ask those questions of the Parks Department but then the... regarding the wall, initially we talked and it looks like there's funding for a chain link fence to protect the site but what you're suggesting is to build a wall, not a historic wall but a wall built by the way it was built historically, right? Mr. Rowe: No, no. Mr. Bynum: Not a wall... Mr. Rowe: It doesn't... you see this wall on the outside doesn't really have the integrity, it can be a regular rock wall, it can be crack rock. Mr. Bynum: Can be? Mr. Rowe: Crack rock. Mr. Bynum: Right! So it's not a historic restoration, it's something that... Mr. Rowe: No, no... it's just a security wall. Mr. Bynum: But you're suggesting that it be built with, not like what those Samoans built an eight (8) foot wall with mortar but the way it was built historically without mortar, right? Mr. Rowe: Mr. Bynum: Mr. Rowe: jump over the wall or... Mr. Bynum: I probably put mortar in there. I'm sorry, you would put mortar in there? To keep the integrity in case people try to Right, right. Mr. Rowe: But I think once the wall go up and you can see... they'll be no rubbish in there. All the vegetation will be gone, so you'll be looking at it how it's supposed to be looked at. Mr. Bynum: And so you have materials identified for that wall? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: Okay so the money would be involved... labor? Mr. Rowe: Labor. Mr. Bynum: And you're guessing, your guesstimate is seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars? 11 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Rowe: Mr. Bynum: Just rough figure. Yeah rough. Okay. In terms o£.. Mr. Rowe: I'm not a contractor so... you know, I just guess. Because I know how long it cost to make one (1) wall. Mr. Bynum: Right. But the first thing you're suggesting that there may be Council resources is for that wall... County resources? Council doesn't have resources, the County does. Mr. Rowe: And the reason I say that... Mr. Bynum: And the other... Mr. Rowe: ... for the wall is that you really have to look at it seriously whether you want a chain link or you run a rock wall, that is the main issue. So what would be preference to you folks on how you would put the security up for the area. The reason why we clean the inside was to catch them for coming in there and stealing the rocks, so now nobody comes because we're pretty well out there so everybody has been stepping away. The rock wall gives integrity, just the wall itself and the cost is on how high you make the wall. And then I know A &B as I talked with them, they would be on the side willing to furnish some of the rocks. We have a lot of rocks that were pushed in over there if you see that were buried, so all those things would come out and we would be able to do what we need to do there and by cleaning Nukumoi, then you can see the whole thing. Mr. Bynum: And then... Beth wrote, attempted to write a grant to do a master plan right because eventually I think that's important you have that there be kind of a consultant or someone who looks at what is the total scope of the project, what are the phases, what's done by volunteers, what needs to be funded... that kind of things right. And so I can see us moving ahead with trying to mitigate the flooding issues that impact the site, I can see us coming to some decision about the wall but then beyond that it takes this kind of plan that is systematic and brings in all these issues right... and right now there's no funding for that or there's no movement on creating that plan that you're aware of? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. I have the plan, it's ready to be brought out but it's not yet... Mr. Bynum: You got to formulize it western Style right? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: So it's something that we can... and then I also hear you saying that the County putting out some resources will help leverage potential other corporate giving or foundation or that kind of thing and I think that's part of important part of having the plan too so you can articulate that with some more credibility right if it... so I kind of got this right... The last question, I still have concerns about the drainage plans for the properties mauka that when I read the, and Tessie helped bring those to my attention, said we're going to drain water, we're going to have certain amount of catchment but part of the plan was to drain it under the roadway into the park area and the plan say... and then outfall 12 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 into the ocean... but there is no outfall into the ocean, so I thought that was kind of fundamental problem that we're telling developers on the mauka side of the highway, yeah part of your drainage plan can be to dump water into the park area where we know we have this, so until we know whether we can handle that water, because in their text it says... because then it's going to go into the ocean. Well further towards Kukui`ula there is outfall into the ocean but in that area, there's not. That's still a big unanswered question in my mind about whether those mauka drainage plans have any integrity in the real world and I think that's tied to how we can address flooding that does come into there naturally that might be increased by allowing water to come from the mauka side into the.... Because you know before there was modern development there the Hawaiians had a drainage plan and they knew how to handle and they used the water on the way to grow things right? So... you know that's the way I'm sorting these issues in my own mind, am I doing okay? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: Okay. I think moving forward on understanding what if anything the county can do about the periodic flooding that happens on the park side, whether you're correct or not, that cleaning out those fishponds and making them operate more the way they did historically, might help mitigate it and there are other ideas that came up during that discussion. I'm not sure where that's at, so I'm going to... I'd like the staff to follow up with questions to the Administration about and maybe look at that back, last time we were here a couple years ago, talking about all of that... did it get stalled, is there a path forward, is the County... what's that federal government... agency... Mr. Rowe: The Army Corp of Engineers? Mr. Bynum: Yeah Corp of Engineers, are they involved... and you know did we move forward with that? I don't know... and then finding a way to conduct this planning process, I think would be a key element to move forward with fundraising, giving, phasing, all of those questions, yeah? Mr. Stem: If I could say something regarding the planning... we actually have received a written... Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, you need to reintroduce yourself. Mr. Stem: Oh, John Stem, Treasurer. Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Stem: We have received from Billy Fields, a rock mason, an actual written quotation for the physical restoration of the heiau proper, not for the security wall that Rupert is talking about. Part of the reason that Rupert talking about a rock security wall versus a chain link is a chain link is for the purposes of stealing rocks which that's what we're concerned about people doing, a chain link can easily be cut and you just walk right through it. It is no security for rocks. The rock wall would physically be a physical barrier for that type of activity, theft activity and the physical for the humans but we are concerned for future potential of rock theft for the heiau walls. But we have received a quotation, I don't have the documents with me but it is a little over two (2) million dollars... Mr. Bynum: I'm sorry? 13 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Stem: Mr. Bynum: Two (2) million dollars... For the rock wall? Mr. Stem: For the heiau restoration by Billy Fields who is a licensed rock mason who has done heiau restorations in the State. Okay, so we do have that target amount for the physical restoration, okay but and we do have verbal commitments from funding sources such as OHA and A &B, OHA though is all grant matching funds so they do... we do kind of need to set up some type of other funding prior to even going to them with an application. As far as for the rock wall we haven't actually taken action yet to obtain a quotation for rock wall because to my understanding the county preferred using a chain link fence. Mr. Bynum: Right and so basically you have the flooding issues that impact the area, you have the wall, you have two (2) million to do the actual restoration and then you have the desire to acquire the Nukumoi site which would be kind of the visitor center or the focal point. You also have things that we've discussed before that I wrote notes on about traffic circulation and that's something that I think we should put those ideas on paper and send it to our Public Works Department and have them assess from their engineering perspective, traffic engineering perspective and if those are good plans. Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Mr. Bynum: I never know that we've done that. Mr. Rowe: So Billy Fields, we went to (inaudible) on the Big Island, it was Bishop Estate Property and they put back three (3) big heiaus over there Billy Fields was the one who did the job there. And then Pu`ukohola was done culturally. It took them three (3) years but in actual time of work, it was three (3) months to put that whole place back in actual time. Mr. Bynum: Is that the project that National Tropical Botanical Gardens was involved in? Mr. Rowe: No, it was the National Parks. Mr. Bynum: Okay. Mr. Rowe: That did that on the culture. So on the culture end of the restoration it's much cheaper than on the western mentality on doing a contractor. I had two (2) sides, I looked at two (2) sides, so you know... I know what is going to cost more. Billy Fields was two and a half million dollars and it was a two (2) year project but if you do it culturally, I would' even invite you folks on a trip to Nu`alolo Kai so that you can see the culture masons that will be involved with Kaneiolouma on the culture restoration more than on the contractors western way of putting it back. So I cannot sell that culture restoration unless I take you folks all into Nu`alolo Kai so you can see the work that was performed in there. Mr. Bynum: Next field trip? 14 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Rowe: So you guys can see the work how it's done culturally. They restored that whole area on the Napali coast. Mr. Bynum: I think your leadership is kind of wise here that you keep us focused on what's culturally appropriate but know that we have to bridge with some of these like planning documents and you know to the western culture, who has to work in that kind of language. Thank you for answering all those questions. Mr. Rowe: Chair Furfaro: questions? Thank you. Other questions? Nadine, you had Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much for the tour today, it was just a spectacular place to visit. I wanted to ask you about the Nukumoi property. Based on the map, the tax map keys, there's two (2) properties. Is that correct? Mr. Rowe: Ms. Nakamura: (1) said Grove Farm. Mr. Rowe: Ms. Nakamura: Mr. Rowe: Ms. Nakamura: the two (2) properties there? Mr. Rowe: (1) property. Ms. Nakamura: Mr. Rowe: that. Ms. Nakamura: I'm not too sure. Okay one (1) said Knudsen and the other one No, it's all Knudsen. It's all Knudsen now? Yeah. And it's about... and what is your plan for I'm kind of confused, I think there's only one One (1) property. Yeah. Grove Farm has nothing to do with Okay maybe this is an old map? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. And what to do with that place would be the entry. Ms. Nakamura: The entrance? Mr. Rowe: Would be the culture exhibits in there, educational, everything that pertains to the operation of the heiau should come through that area. Ms. Nakamura: So you need to access from the main road and that would be the best access? 15 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Rowe: Yes. I sat down with Bob French and I explained the whole situation to him and he kind of agreed, not kind of agreed, he agreed that the culture should be the most important thing that is taking place in that area. Because he walked on the heiau but he told me that he was in there seven (7) months ago, I told him it was a year and a half ago. So when he walked in and he seen the work, he said you're right it was a year and a half ago. But he wants and he understands how important it is culturally. Ms. Nakamura: It's about three (3) years ago I had a chance to work with Chipper Wichman on a master plan and on a management plan for Lawa`i Kai ahupuaa and I think you need both... the master plan which is the physical layout of where things are going to be, what's going to be restored, where the educational center is going to be sited, the learning areas and then also the management plan... so long term, who's taking care of what and what are the systems you need to put in place to carry out that educational component, and maintenance long run... so to me... that's... and in that everything you mentioned Councilmember Bynum about the drainage, about the physical improvements, signage... all of those things would be covered and phased and cost would be attached so that everybody who becomes a partner in this because it's a huge collaboration, what you're talking about... knows what the long term vision is. I know Randy is related to Chipper and they... the whole... it seems like that's the natural next step so that everybody who becomes a partner sees that vision and buys into it. Then from there we can see what is the different ways the County interacts. So where are you at in that master planning? Mr. Rowe: Everything that you just discussed, I already discuss it with all these individuals. Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Mr. Rowe: But everybody wants to know how the county fits into the... what I need to get it webbed to make it all work out right. Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Mr. Rowe: So I'm just waiting really for the County. Parks Department is on board with us so they understand what's happening down there. Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Mr. Rowe: But now it's in your folks hands, I believe right now the full outcome but I'll get all the paperwork for you folks before July 1, everything that you need. Ms. Nakamura: Oh okay. Mr. Rowe: The master plan itself. Ms. Nakamura: So you don't need the funds for the master plan, you have that piece going? Mr. Rowe: I figure it was cheaper to do it in house. 16 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Mr. Rowe: That's why I have all these individuals specialize in whatever field I need them for. Ms. Nakamura: Okay. So....I guess when we see that then we can get a better idea of how the resources that are needed? Mr. Rowe: Yeah so again A &B, they ask me where is the County, see if you're going to put a hundred thousand and I have to tell OHA that the County is putting a hundred thousand, will you match the County's hundred thousand? Then I'll go to this other foundation and let them know what the County did. You see everybody wants to know what government is going to do first. Ms. Nakamura: Oh. Mr. Rowe: Because they're piggy backing on our organization through... into the government. Ms. Nakamura: So your number one (1) priority project and everything that needs to happen is... is it the exterior fence? Mr. Rowe: Nukumoi. Ms. Nakamura: Or wall? Mr. Rowe: Nukumoi is first. Ms. Nakamura: Nukumoi is for number one (1)? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. So as long as you know you have that then you can pursue with the fence on the outside but as long as I don't open it up, then nobody knows what's out there, only you folks know today. So it is the secret that has to be kept, that is the critical part. But if you're going to open the secret out then you must make a wall or a chain link fence, whatever is feasible for you folks. This is hard economical times but the grants and foundations, everybody wants to know what the county is going to do because it's on county property. Ms. Nakamura: Mr. Rowe: respond because I'm not the County. Ms. Nakamura: Mr. Rowe: Ms. Nakamura: Mr. Rowe: Chair Furfaro: Okay. So when they ask me the questions, I cannot Sure. I'm only the culture. Thank you. You're welcome. Dickie then KipuKai. 17 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Kuali`i: Aloha and mahalo. Having the chance to go out there and experience the heiau and the entire complex in person was incredibly valuable and I have so much aloha and so grateful to all the work that you and Hui Malama o Kaneiolouma are doing. When I read that it's about clearly and maintaining and rehabilitating the complex so that it can become a public cultural reserve, I mean it's a huge undertaking and that you've been at it already for thirteen years, I can easily see you being at it for another thirteen years. I think piggy backing on what Councilmember Nakamura was saying, I think we just need to know how you want to see, you have worked with the Administration already and I know I need to read all of this, the stuff that you have done with the Administration but I just want to know you're asking how the county fits in and I would ask you how do you want us to fit in? I hear you saying that the Nukumoi site is the primary, your primary goal and issue now, but clearly there's several that follow as well, and I'm just wondering if you see us playing a role in all those different places and obviously if things like the flooding and you know it's being caused by some of the things that the county is doing or allowing to happen then we have a role in that too and maybe we should be attacking it from all... you know if there's five (5) different things you want us to help with and Nukumoi is one of them, let's not wait until one is done before we go to two (2) because I think some of these things can all happen simultaneously and we can put... there's a lot of energy and resources throughout the county and there's seven (7) of us so we can... with all our different Committees and perhaps there's ways that we can help move things along. I see that this is a very important undertaking and I want to support it however I can. So what are some ideas you have about what's needing to happen right now and the next year and the next couple years and what role can we play? Mr. Rowe:` Okay. I believe in two and a half years that whole site should be completed, in two and a half years. Mr. Kuali`i: As far as cleaning, clearing, and... Mr. Rowe: No, full on restoration... two and a half years. The reason I'm pushing Nukumoi is because the land trust wants to become a partner and they want to know where you folks are in such a site if you folks wanted to purchase... see I can't speak for them.. But I know they are interested in being partners with the county so that's why I'm trying to tell you folks, they want answers but I cannot give them the answers unless you folks let me know if you folks are going to go forth on that and I can present it to them. With them working with you folks, I can step back and they'll work with you folks... only on Nukumoi, okay? The outside wall, well again like I said OHA is willing to match whatever the County puts out and A &B Foundation and Grove Farm too I think is on board... whatever the County does, they will match... I will try to work it where the burden is not placed on the County but the hard work through my organization with making the contact with all this other people and if you folks can add to it would be even better but everybody is just sitting back and waiting. The rock wall on the outside we have help, purchasing of Nukumoi, the Hawaiian Island Land Trust is interested in working with the County on how to do that whole thing, I can't speak for them. But I'm a board member of the council of the Kauai Land Trust. Mr. Stem: If I could try to address some, KipuKai's and maybe much of the questions regarding the funding... unfortunately we have not done basically any actual grant writing for specific, anything other than some small county grants regarding equipment okay for maintaining of the physical cutting of 18 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 the brush. What Rupert is trying to say on... he's looking at us, we're looking at... you know everybody is looking at everybody... is number one (1) on the rock wall, on the wall period, the fence, the security perimeter... is the County willing to do it on their own as the County, just the county putting up the wall at the County park or does the county want us as a nonprofit to obtain a quote, a real quote and submit the grant application or something in writing for funding to the county? Okay, it is County property and what Rupert is basically doing is he's putting the idea forth and we're trying to see okay how do we need to progress on this, on just that rock wall for that subject. For the Nukumoi property, there's a lot of behind the scenes discussion one on one with the people who have like the Land Trust, who have the ability to step up to the plate with funding. At the same token if the county itself is not willing to even consider something then there's probably no real negotiation that's going to take place between the land owner and the County. For the interior, the actual heiau itself, that's where we mentioned we've gotten the quotation but we have not applied for any funding for those large amounts yet. Mr. Kuali`i: The other. Chair Furfaro: Any other... Mr. Kuali`i: One quick last please... so in looking at the two (2) fish ponds on both sides of the road is... are you just looking at that as a flooding issue or is there part of your organization that is interested in restoring the fishponds as well? Mr. Rowe: Yeah there's money out there from the State of the restoration of those fishponds. I have all those documents that I can bring forth, those are grants that the State would match the County. So I have all this stuff on the outside but I just have to put everything into position and then go for it. But Nukumoi, I'm strictly involved with the Land Trust so I have to go back and tell them if the county would pursue and then the paperwork and whatever needs to be done, I cannot do that because that's between you folks and they did that once before so I cannot speak for them. Chair Furfaro: Before we go any further just for the members here, I just want to make sure we understand we need to probably talk in terms with the County Attorney about an appraisal process first. Not go immediately to an appropriation bills for the money. It is going to be probably the best way for us to approach this because any money we put is tax payer's money that needs to be substantiated by an appraisal. The other part I want to get clarified that to Bob French's restaurant is not on the Nukumoi site, is it? Mr. Rowe: Bob French restaurant is owned by George Sueoka. Chair Furfaro: Okay because he's in front of us regarding some wastewater improvements that he wants to do in his property. Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Chair Furfaro: And we kind of started that but we're not talking about that property, we're talking about the Surf Shop property? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. 19 KANEIOLOUMA BEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Chair Furfaro: III s 6 mT Only. Strictly the Surf Shop. Chair Furfaro: Yeah and it looks like on that piece of property there might be a CPR that runs through it and we don't know that yet? Mr. Rowe: Yeah there was a CPR that was done. You see when he first got involved with Kaneiolouma at the very early stages, this is in 1998 and 2002, we learned everything about that property right there and it came to a point after we testified and testified and testified, Avery asked us if we wanted to buy the property outright and then I asked the Planning Department to forward to whoever it needed to buy that property but somehow it never left so I cannot tell you why it got hanged up in the Planning Department. But it was at that time there wasn't no plans on putting the houses but the property was rezoned now to CPR so now it puts the county in a harder position on buying the property that has been rezoned into CPR. Chair Furfaro: I'm following your decision but what I'm saying I want to pursue if that parcel of land is currently zoned Open and Cultural, the fact of the matter is it's a lot easier for us to approach the ownership after an appraisal for the purpose of acquiring it for public benefit. I think somewhere along the line I need to have that as a decision with the County Attorney and then we probably would have to put it on as an agenda item that triggers an appraisal and some notification of our interest to expand the Open space that is currently in the culture area as part of a public acquisition so I just wanted to make sure we got to put the appraisal and the intent first then look at some kind of appropriation in a money bill that answers your questions about how much are we going to put there. Because we have to do our due diligence. Mr. Rowe: Oh yeah. Chair Furfaro: With public money. Mr. Rowe: See, I agree with that. So what you ust said, that's what the Land Trust asked me and I said I cannot go forward unless government makes their move, I'm just the culture guy but I need to get these instruments to go forward. So they asking me what you dust said. Chair Furfaro: I'm willing to surface that with the . County Attorney and then you know make sure I clearly understand how we demonstrate an acquisition for public benefit. You know we want to make sure it's a friendly approach when we acquire. So I'll pursue that a little bit here. Councilmember Nakamura then Councilmember Rapozo. Ms. Nakamura: You asked my question about... Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Rupert where is the Administration, the Mayor on this purchase of that property? I haven't heard anything from them and it's pretty awkward for the Council to be basically telling 20 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 the Administration okay we're going to buy your land. I think it needs to come from them. Mr. Rowe: Okay. Mr. Rapozo: I understand the Agencies are saying hey you know it's in the Council's court, really... we approve the funding but obviously it would have to be something that the administration was supportive of in my opinion. I think they would be the ones to come to us and say hey this is what we're interested in, we've formed this partnership with this nonprofit and really to seal this deal we would really love to purchase this property in a friendly condemnation process and then I think what Mr. Furfaro talked about with the appraisals and so forth. And I'm just speaking for myself right now, I think for me to move forward with... I would definitely need to have the Administration telling us hey or asking us... this is the direction we'd want to go whether it's Parks or Public Works or Economic Development or the Mayor or whoever and start to proceed on that road. And then at the end of the day I think you heard the support of, all the Councilmembers, I think there's no denying that this Council supports that project. For me anyway I think that it's very important that we hear from the Administration and they need to make that call whether or not it's a project that they want to... much like the bridge project that you're reading about, it's the same thing. I mean we can put the money in but if they don't sign the dotted line, it just goes nowhere. Mr. Rowe: Okay. Chair Furfaro: And Rupert, I just want to make sure we're all clear too, when I said it would require me to speak to the County Attorney, when I use the term County Attorney, I'm talking about speaking to the Administration. Mr. Rowe: Okay. Chair Furfaro: Basically saying hey this should be our next step, where are you folks on it and then at the same time if we get to a point where we're pursuing an unfriendly condemnation, then we also have to know that for the Courts, we need to actually show a plan, a master plan and why it benefits the public, so appreciate Mr. Rapozo's query but generally when I spoke about talking to the County Attorney about the next step, it was about and where is the Administration because we want to pursue this, Al, you have to advise us. Mr. Rowe: Okay, can I answer that question? Chair Furfaro: Sure. Mr. Rowe: That's why Lenny was there, so I figured on the Administration and I thought George was going to be there because he set it up with George but they weren't there today so you know... they're... I can't speak for them but they know what's happening. So you folks have to ask them but everybody knows about Nukumoi. Chair Furfaro: I will pursue that decision. Mr. Bynum. 21 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 Mr. Bynum: I just wanted to answer your question about is the County contract the wall, does a non... so you have a nonprofit right? And how old is that nonprofit? Mr. Stem: Two (2) years. Mr. Bynum: Two (2) years, okay so what I want to share with you is that I have some experience lots of other community groups, the County has an history of working with nonprofits and putting the funds into the nonprofit because then the project more clearly matches your vision. You can spend the dollars more local and you avoid a lot of the procurement issues that jack up the prices when it's in the County side. You know we have to do it all by the book and legally but we have a history with doing it with a number of community groups. But it put some pressure on a nonprofit because then your administrating funds and you have to have the resources to do that administration and reporting to keep everything above (inaudible) but my own personal view is it's a lot better to go that way, you end up with a better product at a better price with the work staying more local and it meets your vision more. So that's just my two cents and I know there are people who would you know nonprofits to have that experience that would be happy to meet with you and discussion you know what it entails. Chair Furfaro: Okay members, we have a few more moments here until 12:15 because we need to break accordingly to our agreement with the staff so on that note we still got fifteen minutes or so. Mr. Chang. Mr. Chang: I'll just Chair... Chair Furfaro: (inaudible) Mr. Chang: I'll just ask a fast question because most of my questions have been answered. Rupert in the educational process now, putting up a fence doesn't look open, it doesn't look cultural, it doesn't look public... a chain link fence John mentioned people can cut it and get in there but in your experience now with education with children and other cultures that you dealt with, if you do have a rock wall, how respectful is that rock wall that most people will know that it's kapu or let's not crawl over the wall? I mean has that education pretty much be self explained that it's a heiau? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Because on the outside of the wall you will have plaques that describes what's inside and you can explain what kapu means and to respect the wall as the boundary. I see no problem in the tourist industry and even in the locals. The wall just... the rock wall just the integrity of the rock, that's the whole purpose about it. You can put a chain link fence and get the same thing done but no look nice. So that's why if you're going to put a chain link fence or a rock wall, it is easier to get other organizations to hook up with the County on the restoration of the wall and not have the full burden be placed on the County in this tight economical times right now. Mr. Chang: And within the heiau you have all the materials, you have all the rocks... Mr. Rowe: Everything that you seen in the heiau was never taken out, it's all right there, just fell apart. You just have to rake it all up and get everybody and put it back. So that's why I asked you folks if you wanted to 22 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 have a Napah cruise and we can show you the work that these people that did the work on the restoration of heiaus and the integrity of how it's done culturally and how it's done western. So I had to get two (2) figures, yeah and bring them back to whoever wants to have that figures brought forward. Mr. Chang: wall mauka of Sheraton? \,f -1176 mT Mr. Chang: at that one with... Teddy Blake. Mr. Rowe: Mr. Chang: Mr. Rowe: Mr. Chang: materials as far as the rocks? Have you seen that railroad track, the rock Yeah. Because Billy Fields was also taking a look Theodore? Yeah. He's name is Theodore, not Teddy. Oh okay. So you can... there are enough Mr. Rowe: Everything on the inside of the heiau is there, you don't have to go anyplace to do anything, only on the outside. So there's not enough rocks to cover the outside but what you seen by Nukumoi and Brennecke's Restaurant all those big boulders and everything, that all can be break down and used on the outside wall. Mr. Chang: Correct. Mr. Rowe: Only on the outside. Mr. Chang: Okay. Mr. Rowe: But the rocks on the inside is all black... they're not brown, if you even looked at the rocks. So those rocks tell you where they came from. The rocks that we put on the outside may be light in color but that's alright. Mr. Chang: Okay. Chair Furfaro: KipuKai and then we're going to end with Vice Chair Yukimura. Mr. Kuali`i: Just one last quick question, so with regards to that Nukumoi property right... so if it was difficult to obtain and cost so much, would you see any second or third option as far as... because it looks like the State property up in the right end corner would be along the main road as well and then the other corner, you know the whole property is surrounded by the main road. Mr. Rowe: Okay, let me answer that question. Mr. Kuali`i: And I know it would be ideal to connect to the ocean there and to the beach. 23 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24,12011 Mr. Rowe: No, it's not... it's not connecting to the ocean on the bottom, it's the... the integrity you cannot come in from Weliweli and make another entry into another ahupuaa with the wall, that's why it's separated. So culturally that's impossible to do. I am only speaking in behalf of the culture. And then when Nukumoi, we have an opportunity, I can't speak for the Administration but I know they know what I'm doing down there and I think they would like to pursue this but you have to have it from them. Now is the time to make the move so today was the day of kane, so you came to a kane heiau, we did it culturally, so everything in the moon and everything and the energy that flows in there... today was the day to do what we need to do in there. And it's how you deliver what you feel as the Council and the integrity of what you put forth for the general public in the future on that heiau. That's all I get to say, I'm only speaking from the culture. Mr. Kuali`i: Mahalo. Chair Furfaro: Council Vice Chair Yukimura: Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Chair. Rupert and John as you've talked today and thank you for all your work and manao and your heart, there's basically two (2) areas where the County needs to be involved in at least at this stage, one (1) is the wall because really you don't want to... what I heard is that the sequencing of the activities is really important because you really don't want to open up that place without the protective wall, right, so one (1) is the wall and the other is the Nukumoi property which as you just finished explaining is sort of key in terms of the entrance and the functionality of the heiau as it interfaces with the public. In this budget that the Council will pass tomorrow, there's and hopefully the Mayor will sign soon, there's one hundred thousand dollars which is earmarked for Kaneiolouma restoration slash matching, so you can go to A &B now and Grove Farm and OHA and the State if you want to match State moneys for the fishpond and say the County has put in this much as a beginning for the protective fence, so how much can you come up with now. Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Ms. Yukimura: In terms of in -kind material, if Kukui`ula is going to give rocks or A &B is going to give rocks and grants and OHA can maybe give a grant, so you know you can say please this is initial funding, how much can you come up for the wall? Mr. Rowe: See I talked to OHA, five hundred thousand was no problem for them. Ms. Yukimura: Great. Mr. Rowe: But they wanted the County to match them, as long as you match them, they'll match you. Ms. Yukimura: Well then that need to be said to us before hand because if you need five hundred thousand... but the thing is that if you have all those figures about the cost of the wall and you have OHA's letter that says we'll give you half a million if there's a half a million match, I don't know if it has to be from the County per say or if it can be other sources, so that's the kind of, the 24 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 balancing that you folks are going to have to do when Randy comes back. As far as Nukumoi property, now does Bob French has an interest in the Nukumoi business? Mr. Rowe: Yeah. Ms. Yukimura: I think so right? Mr. Rowe: Let me explain something about Bob French, I met with Bob French and explained the situation and I told him what was the outcome, I told him by opening up Nukumoi to a culture site, his restaurant would run twenty -four hours a day and he like that. Ms. Yukimura: Right. I think that's true that there's a lot that could be of advantage to him with the development of the Kaneiolouma site. And he's not in absolute control if Knudsen is still the owner of the property, that's the main... Mr. Rowe: No, he's only leasing from them. Ms. Yukimura: Okay, so the question even is how is commercial use being allowed over there and it might be through a special use permit but all of these things have to be figured out. But the main thing is as Councilmember Rapozo said, if the Administration is in favor or onboard for adding the Nukumoi site to the existing Kaneiolouma site, then the first steps are check with the landowner and see if there's some willingness, do an appraisal and then when we know what kind of money we're talking, raise the money. Whether it's through the Land Trust or through County appropriation or through State Legacy land moneys or through whatever but until we know what the target moneys are, we can't really begin to piece together the amount. Just like we did with Black Pot. I think to go back to Parks and the Mayor and say are you onboard if so has Mauna Kea talked to the landowner and initiate a appraisal and then we can be in the ball park and move ahead. Mr. Rowe: Okay. So as the poo I will make contact with the Administration today. Ms. Yukimura: Great.. Mr. Rowe: So at tomorrow's meeting, you will have an answer. How's that? Ms. Yukimura: Oh. That is faster than government works, that's for sure. Mr. Rowe: That's how Kaneiolouma performs. Chair Furfaro: Rupert, I would just say to you though, it's probably best that I convey the message and willingness of the Council, of the body. Mr. Rowe: I agree with you. Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman has pointed out we have a hundred thousand earmarked and we probably have about another thirty -two thousand available to us in district funds for public use... but you know I want to 25 KANEIOLOUMA HEIAU COMPLEX MAY 24, 2011 convey the message to the County Attorney via the Administration there's definite interest here. Mr. Rowe: Okay. Chair Furfaro: Okay. On that note, we need to break. Mr. Rowe: Okay. Chair Furfaro: I just want to say on behalf of the entire Council, thank you very much for today, it was an outstanding site inspection. The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: ADJOURNMENT. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 12:26 p.m. R ectfully submitted, PETER A. NAKAMURA County Clerk \ds