HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-12-2010 Council Meeting Minutes
COUNCIL MEETING
May 12, 2010
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kauai was called to
order by the Council Chair at the Council Chambers, 3371-A Wilcox Road, Lihu`e,
Kauai, on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 9.12 a.m., after which the following
members answered the call of the roll.
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable Jay Furfaro
Honorable Daryl W Kaneshiro
Honorable Lani T Kawahara
Honorable Derek S.K. Kawakami
Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing, Council Chair
Chair Asing: Thank you. Can we have the first item please?
PETER A. NAKAMURA, County Clerk: The first item is approval of the
agenda.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Mr Chang: Move to approve.
Chair Asing: Can I have a second please?
Mr Furfaro. Second.
Chair Asing: All those in favor say, aye.
Mr Chang moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by
Mr Furfaro, and unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please.
PETER A. NAKAMURA, County Clerk: Council Chair, at this time
there's a request to take up as first on the council's agenda on page 1,
communication C 2010-122.
COMMUNICATIONS.
C 2010-122 Communication (05/06/2010) from Derek S K. Kawakami,
Chair, Public Safety/Energy/Intergovernmental Relations Committee, requesting
agenda time for SPJ Consulting, the County's retained State legislative lobbyist
firm, to provide a concluding report on the 25th Hawaii State Legislative (2010)
Session.
Chair Asing: Thank you. With that, I'd like to turn it over to
Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami.
Mr Kawakami. Thank you, Mr Chair I think we have
representatives from SPJ that would like to give a presentation, so, the rules are
suspended.
Chair Asing: Thank you, the rules are suspended.
COUNCIL MEETING -2- May 12, 2010
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
RONALD KOUCHI. Mr Chairman and members of the Council, my
name, for the record, is Ronald Kouchi. Thank you for allowing us the opportunity
this morning to give you a wrap up on the legislative session. The first thing I'd like
to just state for people watching who may not be aware of it, SPJ Consulting
consists of James Pacopac to my right, Scott Matsuura who did all of the technical
report writing and made sure that all reports were filed electronically on time. He
extends his apologies for not being here. I know he'd like to be here, but he's having
a root canal done today And then the last partner, you know the P is for Pat; he
was not used on the contract with the county and instead Mr Pacopac engaged me
as a subcontractor to assist on this matter Our assignment was to work on the bills
that were jointly approved by the mayor and the council, the bills that were
approved by the Council of Mayors, and the bills that were approved by the Hawaii
State Association of Counties. Once the session started, it became apparent that we
needed to add a fourth category- bills not introduced or supported by any one of the
three groups but that would affect the counties that were introduced by some other
party And so we started adding those bills that affected the county to our tracking
list.
First and foremost the number one task that we had been assigned was to try
to ensure that the counties would retain their full share of the room tax or TAT bill
and we are certainly very pleased to report to you today as it has already been
reported that the House and the Senate could not agree on what new bill might be
passed and with no new bill passing, the hotel room tax in its previous form will
continue going forward and having both bills fail, actually results in a better
financial situation for the County of Kauai than the House version of $94 million as
well as the Senate version of $50 million. And so with the highlight on the TAT bill,
you know, James was doing most of the day-to-day meeting with legislators and so
I'm going to turn over the second portion of this report to James, but each one of you
should have a copy of what he's going to be reading from which was emailed to the
council by Scott which was our final wrap-up. And then if you have questions, you
know, James and I will be available. Thank you.
JAMES PACOPAC- Good morning, councilmen.
Good morning.
Mr Pacopac: It's always a pleasure to come to Kauai. First of
all, I'd like to thank several people during this session which really aided in my job
to pursue the end results that we had. One of them is, of course, Councilman Derek
Kawakami who spent numerous times coming up and also lobbying and also
testifying in behalf of the Kauai County for HSAC Also in. and appreciation also
goes to Representative Jimmy Tokioka, who I think did a terrific job in helping us
in getting the TAT Without his help, I don't know where Kauai County would be.
So anyway, you have a list of some of the bills that we listed. A lot of them
were taken off. We had over thirty-something, maybe forty bills originally starting
off. Most of them were killed or taken off, and these are just a compilation of the
bills that we felt that was on the list and also some that was not on the list, but we
had to pursue it for the purpose of saving Kauai County I'm sure you had this
report for awhile. I don't know if you want to go through it individually or you just
want to answer ques. if you have questions on any of subjects. There's only a few
bills. House Bill 2016 SDI, this was an HCOM bill which was provided by all the
Hawaii Council of Mayors and this one is pretty explanatory and this bill was
COUNCIL MEETING -3- May 12, 2010
really we had to do a little work on this bill because the bill was actually dead and
we had a little confusion because we didn't know that we were supposed to pursue
this bill under HCOM. I didn't know I had to do some of the HCOM bills, but in
any anyway we got to revive it and then we had it passed.
Senate Bill 2849, that has to do with the EUTF This bill went all the way to
the end. It was negotiated to the end. HCOM's proposal was to have one, either
mayor representative or HSAC representative, sitting on the board. As you know
the EUTF was having problems with doing any motion on their trust fund. In any
regards, they did pass something that will hopefully make this fund move. One was
they changed the structure of the votes. Before it was always a tie-tie because you
have six management and six union. And now each one has a vote and you only
need six to get anything passed. They also added that any funds to the EUTF gotta
go to the EUTF It cannot be transferred out to anyplace else and also requires the
Governor to release these funds into the fund and she's been holding it for awhile.
Mr Kouchi: Can I add something (inaudible).
Mr Pacopac: Sure.
Mr Kouchi. I think I'd like to add on the first bill, there was
some. I guess some discussion via the Garden Island newspaper regarding, you
know, having the police chief be appointed or removed as prescribed by charter
There was the impression that if this bill passed that the mayor would have the sole
authority to appoint the chief of police and that's not the case All it says now is
that each individual county via their charter would have the ability to make that
decision. Our charter today currently says that the chief of police is appointed by
the police commission and any change to that method of the chief of police being
appointed would in fact require the charter to be changed, but Kauai could make
that decision for themselves as each of the other three counties would be able to
make the decision for themselves as they saw fit.
For the newer councilmembers, you know, you probably have come onboard
in a time when the stock market and real estate market has been performing poorly
and so the EUTF trust fund was not doing well. However, there was a prior statute
that said that any earnings over 8% could be skimmed off the top of the retirement
fund and returned to the state general fund and to the counties to reduce the
contributions that they had to make and in good real estate markets and upstart
markets, then money was diverted or skimmed off the top of the retirement fund
and put back into general fund use as 8% was deemed to be an adequate or
appropriate contribution. So if any of you saw the newspaper this morning, there's
articles about the fund now having real good performances over the first three
quarters of the year, however, still falling short of the fully funded mandate and so
this bill did start out in HSAC and HCOM as adding one county representative onto
the board. As things happen in conference and can change in the conference
committee, that bill was morphed into this bill, but I do think that what this bill
will now say to all of the county and state employees is that, you know, your
pension or your trust fund moneys are now protected within the fund and this will
help ensure that both the state and counties are making adequate progress to make
sure that the fund is, you know, fully... fully funded so that the benefits that the
employees have accrued will be able to be paid.
Chair Asing: Councilmembers, any questions?
BC, Videographer• (Inaudible) check your mike.
COUNCIL MEETING -4- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: I'm sorry, councilmembers, any questions?
Councilmember Furfaro and then Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Furfaro: Yes. Gentlemen, thank you very much, and thank
you so much for recognizing Councilman Kawakami. I too think he did an
outstanding job for us as being our liaison person at the legislature. If you could,
just clarify a little bit more for me the outcome of the county-appointed individual
that will be. I mean how
Mr Kouchi: It was removed.
Mr Furfaro: Oh, it was removed.
Mr Kouchi. That's why I said in conference committee, the title
was appropriate relating to the EUTF But instead of being a bill about adding one
county representative, it wound up now changing where it addressed how the votes
were counted, how many people could vote and be a quorum, and then not allowing
the transfer of funds to go out of the pension fund. And I do need to state besides
Derek, you know, each one of the other six councilmembers had numerous questions
and especially where it relates to the TAT bills, also had individual testimonies sent
up and you know, each of the councilmembers were very engaged and called the
people that they could call. It also helped to have Representative Sagum, who's a
member of the Finance Committee on the House side as well. You know, he was a
big help Mina Morita, while not a member of the Finance Committee, was
supportive of retaining the county portion of the TAT from day one and then
certainly on the Senate side our Senator Gary Hooser also said from the very first
meeting that, you know, we could count on his vote to be in favor of retaining the
full portion of the TAT to the counties and having been a former councilmember for
two terms understood, you know, what that impact would be on the county budget.
So, you know, we really had great support from the whole Kauai delegation.
Mr Furfaro: Well, thank you for that continued explanation of
all the acknowledgements, but I did want to point out Mr Kawakami's role rather
than have seven of us speaking. It would be better that the six of us channeled or
used one conduit and he provided himself to be a very effective conduit. I'm sorry I
misunderstood the portion about the council representative. I did hear the other
parts as to certain conditions that were put on the fund to manage it, but thank you
for that clarification. And Ron, thank you, and Jimmy, thank you very much for all
you did and certainly want to acknowledge Mr Tokioka who is sitting behind you
today as well. Thank you.
Chair Asing: With that, Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. Mr Chair, this is questions about anything on this
list?
Chair Asing: Yes.
Mr Bynum. Okay First of all, I want to say, good morning,
James and Ron, and thank you very much for your diligent work on behalf of the
county I think it was. you know, we really needed it, particularly this year We
need it every year and I felt like our whole team did a really great job, including
Councilmember Kawakami and to see Jimmy here this morning is. thank you very
much, Jimmy, for your advocacy on behalf of the counties. I know being a former
COUNCIL MEETING -5- May 12, 2010
councilmember that you have a real sensitivity to those issues and it's very much
appreciated. To the questions, the. related to the police chief, that's an HCOM
proposal, right? The council did not take a position on that.
Mr Kouchi. No, they didn't.
Mr. Bynum. And although you accurately, you know, informed
the public and all of us that this doesn't change it for the county, but it does remove
an obstacle that in the state law, as I. if I understand it correctly, and allows the
charter commission or the mayor or whoever to place that before the Kauai voters.
Is that correct? Do I have that right?
Mr Kouchi: Yes.
Mr Bynum. Okay, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. I
believe there was also a similar move for fire chief, planning director, and
other other department heads.
Mr Kouchi. And. and the personnel director This is the only
one of the four bills that passed.
Mr Bynum. And so the other ones didn't.
Mr Kouchi: No.
Mr Bynum. And they were separate bills. They weren't.
Mr Kouchi. Yes.
Mr Bynum. Okay And then re. just regarding to EUTF, I
think this is not what we were seeking initially but still a good outcome in terms of,
you know, not having this practice of skimming. So it eliminates that practice into
the future. So if the economy is doing well and the investments on behalf of retirees
are doing well, they get to keep that in the fund because, you know, we all know
that stock markets go up and down, and so to have a thing that says when it's doing
well we'll take those funds out, you know, but when it's doing poorly, you take the
hit, right. So, I didn't know that this bill had morphed and I. but I think that's still
a very good outcome for state and county retirees. Last question is about the land
use bill. I followed this a little bit, but I. just maybe from your perspective, what
implications that has for the county to shorten that period of time?
Mr Kouchi: Well, I think the most important thing to
remember is that both the council and the mayor did not want to see the loss of
home rule and state or statutory legislation passed that would weaken the current
county's housing policies for each of the counties. So much like how the EUTF bill
morphed from a county representative to how they call quorums, how they cast
votes and prohibits the skimming, this bill started out as the bill that was going to
weaken the affordable housing policies of the counties and eventually came out by
saying that you need to do a better fast-tracking of dedication of infrastructure to
affordable housing. I think each one of you at the table and the mayor had said that
you would like to do everything you can to expedite permitting and especially for
affordable housing for our residents here. So I think the statute is now holding your
feet to the fire, assisting you in helping live up to that commitment and if it can be
done, then it will result in a good outcome for Kauai. But more importantly, at
least it did not attack the county policy that was intact and leaves that decision
making with the county
COUNCIL MEETING -6- May 12, 2010
Mr Bynum. So this is that bill.
Mr Kouchi: Yes.
Mr Bynum. , that morphed and.
Mr Kouchi. Correct.
Mr Bynum. I know earlier the council asked that you track it
and pay attention even though we didn't take a position.
Mr Kouchi. And that's why it's on the report.
Mr Bynum. Right and I appreciate that because, you know,
that's the frightening thing from the. from - I'll own it - my perspective that the
legislature, we would hope, would and often does help the counties. But, you know,
the fear this year regarding the TAT and this bill which basically in its original
form said counties, whatever your housing policy is, we're going to override that and
it wasn't even tailored to each county because each county has a different proposal.
And so that was really scary and from a home rule perspective, I know when
representatives get a call from me it's usually about home rule issues and I
appreciate the support that we've gotten from our Kauai delegation for those home
rule issues, so. I. very interesting, so thank you very much.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any other questions, councilmembers?
If not, I. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Mr Kawakami. Sure.
Chair Asing: Councilmember Kawakami.
Mr Kawakami. No, I just. you know, I want to. I want to just say
thank you very much, yeah, for all the help, helping to navigate when I go up there
because as much praise as you guys like to sing, the credit is all of yours, it's not
mine and it's. its theirs because it's like a labyrinth too, yeah, going up But, you
know, the role that they play and our state representatives play, it's an art and a
science, and the art side is. is almost the side that cannot be taught, to be able to
see the unseen, to be able to hear what's not being said, and to be able to act
appropriately to capitalize on opportunity as it presents itself and to be able to go
with the ebb and flow of the tide of the state legislature. And, you know,
Rep Tokioka, all our reps, our senator up there, they fought hard for the county,
and I just want to say thank you so much, yeah, for your support.
Mr Kouchi: Mr Chairman, I guess if you were wrapping up, I
was focused on the what happened, and the last thing that I was going to report,
especially on the most important item of the TAT, and Tim and I had an interesting
discussion on this on Monday, but I did tell him while, you know, everybody was
making their best effort to educate, you know, our residents about how important
the TAT is to the counties and what function it plays to the county's budget and the
partnership between the county and the state, and how the counties receive their
funding and, you know, what it would mean to the taxpayers if it was lost, and what
the additional real property tax cost would be, I did tell him candidly and on the
neighbor islands, you know, the message resonates and many of the senators and
representatives from the neighbor islands have, like Representative Tokioka,
they've served on their respective county councils. But if you look at the votes in
COUNCIL MEETING -7- May 12, 2010
the Senate and the House, most of the no votes against the counties retaining the
TAT intact were all no votes from Honolulu. And the amount of the TAT as a
percentage of the overall city budget is very minimal and so, you know, it was really
a good effort by the neighbor island representatives and senators to convince their
colleagues and they've made some tough choices on raising some taxes so that, you
know, the counties would be left intact.
But the job for next year's preservation of TAT begins today or actually, you
know, the Friday after the legislature adjourned. There was a good article about
what was going on by Richard Borreca in today's Star Bulletin editorial section on
kicking the can. And unfortunately, you know, in trying to mitigate the impact on,
you know, each taxpayer in this state, they did adopt that lag of the income tax and
using some of the funds that are one-time deals, and so if our economy does not turn
around between now and the next legislative session, they're going to be right back
at the table looking at how they're going to make up for that money that is not
available because that income tax refund lag will not be available, that rainy day
fund money has been used and will not be available to be used, and so, you know,
you really need to use the interim as an opportunity to try and again continue
educating. But I will tell you, Mayor Carvalho had a special run of kulolo made and
delivered to both money committee chairs because he found out that they like
kulolo, you know, found out about Hamura saimin and so I personally delivered
Hamura saimin to committees, and we've had Derek bring up poi and you know,
other kind of things. James is always stopping to bring things and, you know, but
just to have doors open so we're able to carry on that discussion and I know we've
already talked with Councilmember Kawakami about how we could start setting up
some opportunities to meet with members of the legislature to already start talking
about what the county's needs are going to be for next year and, you know, for those
of you at home, you know, let our delegation know how grateful we are so that you
put them in the box to make sure that they continue to be great supporters of
keeping the TAT for the counties.
Chair Asing: Thank you. With that, Councilmember Furfaro.
Mr. Furfaro• Yes, Ron, thank you for bringing that up and I had
asked, going forward, that we put together a county resolution of gratitude to the
legislature on the TAT and that will be coming up shortly But as you pointed out,
that ratio of City and County of Honolulu allocation, ours is the largest of all as it
relates to our total operating budget, ours is almost 8.5%, so your comments are
very much appreciated and I did want to point out that we will be acknowledging a
resolution thanking them as it relates to our operating budget. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Yes, go ahead.
Mr Pacopac: I just wanted also, before you end, one of the groups
that I haven't mentioned that was very instrumental in helping us also was the
administration. We had many of their people come up and testify and they were
very supportive just as the council was, you know, and I think it was. for me,
working with a group of the council and the administration was much easier than I
thought it was going to be because I've worked in this situation before and I tell you
when I have to fight with council and administration to agree on what we're going
to do at the leg., this session was a joy We had a lot of support from the mayor,
administration and then also with Derek and you folks. So it makes our job much
easier if you guys are all in tune together. I just wanted to make sure I brought
that up for you.
COUNCIL MEETING -8- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any other? Go ahead,
Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. Yeah and I just really appreciate your last
comments, Ron, and yours, James, because, you know, I think that collectively the
neighbor islands and particularly the mayors were very effective in educating the
public about and in my view, you know, the county's entitlement to a share of the
TAT You know, I know it's tempting because the legislature can take it, they have
that ability, but, you know, we host visitors at a very high percentage on Kauai and
not only as a percentage of our budget is the highest, but I believe we're the highest
in terms of percentage of visitors that are de facto population on any given day, and
so it's very encouraging to me that the general public, the Honolulu Advertiser, you
know, got it and basically you know, I think two or three years ago nobody knew
what the TAT was and now there's a pretty high level of knowledge and
understanding at least here on Kauai about how critical that is. So, I concur with
you totally that this was a really good team effort and there was a lot. over a
two-year period educating people and, you know, making it clear And I. I
remember the Honolulu Advertiser I think said, you know, this is like passing the
buck, right, and you know, that's. so, thank you again for your efforts.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any other questions, councilmembers,
or comments? If not, what I'd like to do is just thank you very much for all the work
that you've done. Excellent, good job, can't thank you enough and from all the
councilmembers and myself, mahalo.
With that, what I'd like to do is I would first like to recognize. thank you,
Ron and Jimmy I'd like to recognize our newest staff member and I'd like the
newest staff member to stand, Eddie Topenio, Jr., who is our new deputy county
clerk.
(Applause.)
Chair Asing: And at this time what I'd like to do is call on our
Representative Jimmy Tokioka. Jimmy, if you could come up please and as it
relates to the agenda item, I'd like for Jimmy to make a few comments on any item
that was covered by our representatives. Jimmy, first of all thank you very much
for all the hard work that you do there for all of us.
JAMES TOKIOKA, State Representative: Thank you, Chair Asing, and
it's good to be here. I would say home, but it's a new building and it's a big
beautiful building. So thank you for working with, you know, the delegation and I
just want to echo some of the things that Mr Paeopac and Kouchi said. You know,
this was probably the hardest session and the hardest time in government for any
elected official to be in government. And, you know, the training that I got here
with, you know, Councilmember Kaneshiro, Chair Asing, and Chair Kouchi, and
Member Furfaro were a good learning point for me. Having said that, you know the
choices that we had to make this year were very, very difficult. I don't think if you
asked anyone five years ago if you ever thought that the administration would be or
government would be laying off or furloughing teachers 17 days a year, nobody
would even think that it would be possible. You know, when I was sitting on the
council, I never thought the taking of the TAT 100% of it would be possible, but it
came down to the last hour You know, up until the final hour of the session it was
still in limbo, and so I'd like to echo a lot of the comments, and I know every single
councilmember who is sitting here right now called me and had discussions with me
about the TAT You know, I had to share some of the insight of how the process
works up there and I think, you know, each and every one of you played a big part
COUNCIL MEETING -9- May 12, 2010
in that and so I thank you for that. I know Mr Kouchi talked about
Representative Sagum on the Finance Committee, you know, who did an
outstanding job as well. (Inaudible) Chair of Energy and Environmental Protection
Morita did an excellent job and our Senator Hooser as the majority leader
And I can't say it any better than Ron said about the make-up of the
legislature. The neighbor island delegations were very, very strong as far as, you
know, the impact it would mean to the county, so it is certainly true that for the
Honolulu delegation it wasn't as big of an impact and sometimes when you see, you
know, a body that you're turning money over to giving tax incentives and granting
out money and not suffering the same type of pain that the legislature is going
through, it's easy to say well, this is what we need to look at and I know two-and-a-
half. two years ago, the Honolulu City Council did that. They did a permanent
home use exemption and they knew at that time we were going to go into some
tough times and there was some frustration of some of the people at the legislature
that how could you be doing this when you know we're going to be laying off,
furloughing people. So anyway, thank you all for doing that, and you know, a big
push too by the mayors. They came the last week of session to talk to the
legislature and to mention. to voice their concerns. So you know, the group as a
whole did an excellent job lobbying for the money and you know, I'm sitting there as
I'm listening to some of the things happen and I don't want people at home or any of
you to get the wrong impression that, you know, the legislature thinks that people
have to bow down to us. You know, I came from here. When we were in leadership
meetings at the House, I keep getting reminded Rep Tokioka, you're a
representative now, you don't. you're not a councilmember anymore, but you know,
I served here for 10 years. So I understand, you know, the concerns that you folks
are going through and I will continue to try to be that voice if I'm fortunate enough
to continue to be there for you folks because I know how important, you know, your
jobs are and you know, the $11 million, $12 million hit to you would have been huge
and to kind of. to fill that gap, you know, to raise property taxes, we're hurting the
same people and that's certainly something that we didn't want to do. I know Chair
Oshiro who is. of the Finance Committee, who is Councilmember Chang's
classmate, was very attuned to the. the concerns of the county I know that when
he's been here, every single one of you has mentioned your concerns to him, and I
think that's the important part of just understanding, you know, the roles that all of
us play and communicating that to each other So, Speaker Say, he took a tough
position. I know I had a conference call with Chair Asing, Councilmember
Kawakami and Councilmember Kaneshiro last session with the speaker and the
other council delegations. Calvin Say said at that meeting, he said you know we're
going to save it this year, which was last year, but next year we're going to have to
take the TAT And I know that wasn't accepted very well, but this year he said, you
know, Jimmy, it's tough, we have to make tough decisions, but he supported the
group So I. I. I. we do want to give a big thank you to the Speaker
You know, as you folks know, each body does their own thing. The Senate
works with their delegation and I'm just proud of what the House did to resolve
some of the issues and I passed out or I emailed over a copy of the ways that the
legislature on the House side dealt with the shortfall, the $1.2 billion shortfall, and
I think the interesting thing to me is on page 4 when we were working with this
budget that only 4.6% of the total $1.2 billion came in increases in fees and taxes
because we raised the TAT last year, we raised personal income tax last year, so we
tried to minimize that as possible, but if you look at the savings and the cuts, that's
where a lot of the shortfall was made up on, whether it was vacant positions,
whether it was lapses in budgetary spending, and it's just a good overview of what
we had to deal with this year
COUNCIL MEETING -10- May 12, 2010
So having said that, I appreciate all of the input that you folks give to all of
us and it does make a difference. It, you know, if the counties just rolled over and
didn't say anything, I can almost assure you that the TAT would not have been
there and I think the way that, of course, Chair Kawakami of the. or
President Kawakami of HSAC handled it with his group, you know, was certainly a
big key role as well, just, you know, with aloha but with a stern and strong position
that, you know, we need the money, so thank you, Derek and every single one of you
for making it happen.
Chair Asing: Thank you very much. Councilmembers, any
questions/comments? Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Mr Kaneshiro- Thank you, Chair You know I just wanted to add
this because we just completed our budget, part of our budget sessions on Monday,
Jimmy, and some of the comments that came out of the paper is that, you know, we
kind of did not let the gorilla out, and what they were referring to really was during
an election year, it's really probably not a good time to do any real property tax
increases. The truth is. is that because of the legislative body that we had there
representing the County of Kauai, was really the ones that helped us to lock that
gorilla up for another year or so and that's in regards to the TAT tax. Because I can
tell you right now for a fact that if that wasn't retained by the counties, the gorilla
would have been out running around the islands, so and you know, I just wanted to
make that clear because when you look and you read the paper sometimes the
Garden Island writes things and they say well, you know, people don't really like to
raise taxes during an election year The fact is, man, that would ha. we would
have no choice, you know, and I gotta thank you guys. I gotta thank you, Roland,
Mina, Gary for really fighting hard for us because it was a really hard time for us to
be able to come up and make decisions, but with what you've done, you made it easy
for all the people of Kauai and the real credit gotta go to you guys so they can see
that. that you were the ones who really helped us to save the tax burden to the,
you know, to our people. So I needed to point that out because it's just a reflection
of the good work that you guys are doing for us. Thank you so much again.
Mr Tokioka. Thank you, Daryl. Oh, I'm sorry Go ahead.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Furfaro.
Mr Furfaro• Yes, Kimo, Jimmy, Representative Tokioka.
Mr Tokioka. All kind aliases.
Mr Furfaro: That was when you was a young kamali`i, you
know, so.
Mr Tokioka. I was a busboy when Jay Furfaro. I wasn't even a
busboy and Jay Furfaro hired me as a busboy
Mr Furfaro: Well, you soon became a management trainee and
you're doing a fine fob at managing our state's business. Thank you. Let me ask,
Jimmy, first of all, thank you and the whole legislative team. But could you just
give us a real quick. we ended the legislative session with the $67 million coming
from the hurricane fund earmarked for the school. the teachers.
Mr Tokioka. Furloughs.
COUNCIL MEETING - 11 - May 12, 2010
Mr Furfaro: Am I correct? And how has all of that fallen into
place for next year, Jim.
Mr Tokioka. Well, now it's on the desk of the Governor and you
know, she needs to. to make her choices. You know, we heard from many people
and you have many people in this office as well that continuously emailed us and
called us up about ending the furlough days and you know, just for the record, it
wasn't the legislature who agreed to the 17 furlough days, but you know that
agreement happened after the legislature closed last year What we did this year is
we had to find additional funding which was the $64 million that we appropriated
to end it from the hurricane fund. So, at this point it's with the Governor and I
know that's one of the many things that people should be and I hope are calling the
Governor and the administration about resolving.
Mr Furfaro: I guess that's where I was going with that question,
so that you know, those in the audience can also. and now she would have until
July 6? What is her timetable now to either veto that bill or just let it go unsigned
or?
Mr Tokioka. I think it's July 6. She has 45 days.
Mr Furfaro: It is July 6, right?
Mr Tokioka. Yeah.
Mr Furfaro: So it is important that we resolve that and we have
some time to continue to send that message out.
Mr Tokioka. Yes and what I will do is I will email the link to the
administration's email account so that if the council wants to email them and/or the
general public, you'll have that information to get in touch with the Governor and I
don't say that in any disrespect. I think the more people get involved and especially
if it's names that you know and people that you know and people that you've talked
to and I know she's spoken to many people as she's been here, especially a group
like yourselves, who, you know, touch a lot of people's lives, so I'll get that. that
link to you folks and you can.
Mr Furfaro: I'd appreciate it. I just wanted to get the timeline
correct and.
Mr Tokioka. Yes.
Mr Furfaro: I think it is July 6, so and again, thank you and to
the legislative team for your work this year
Mr Tokioka. And 1. and I can't tell you enough about the team,
as you say, Jay, because the four of us, although we come from different places, we
have different views on different things, we know how important it is to work
collectively together for for all of the people of Kauai, so it's a great honor for me
to serve on that team.
Mr Furfaro: Well, thank you again.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any other comments? Councilmember
Bynum.
COUNCIL MEETING -12- May 12, 2010
Mr Bynum. Yes, real quickly, Jimmy, I wanted to just thank
you for being available and all of the support and information you've provided me.
You know I watched you on council prior to being on this council and I really
appreciated the work you did here and the way you, you know, handled yourself in
treating people with respect and I want to point out one thing that's in your budget
and that you also, I know, helped with this year that the legislature restored
funding for Child Welfare and Child Support Enforcement positions. There was a
proposal to eliminate every single one on Kauai and you know, we were. you were
here for hearings, heard from the community how difficult that was and I
appreciate your and the House's leadership at restoring those positions and
bringing. yeah. to deal with those issues in a more systematic and appropriate
way, so thank you for that.
Mr Tokioka. Thank you, Councilmember Bynum, and you know,
we do have to thank Representative Mizuno, who is the Chair of Health and Human
Services and Suzanne Chun. Senator Chun-Oakland from the Senate, who were
very involved in that and we just. I think the people who had been following that
issue know how frustrated, you know, we all were and the bill was passed and right
now it's going to be a pilot project on Oahu and I did on the floor of the House on
(inaudible) extend my appreciation to the representatives and senators from Oahu
because it's not going to affect any office on the neighbor island, but they are going
to look at a pilot project on Oahu. So some of the offices may be downsized or cut
on Oahu and the Oahu delegation recognized that and they stepped up to the table
and you know, they know that we have to look at, you know, how we manage the
system, but to do it the way that it was proposed with the EPOD system was
absolutely wrong in my mind anyway and many others. And thank you for, you
know, all of you for talking to us and sharing your concerns with that issue.
Chair Asing: Any other questions or comments, councilmembers?
Councilmember Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you, Chair Representative Tokioka, I just
wanted to thank you for all your work personally and also for being available for
phone calls at any time I had questions and also for your willingness to answer
them frankly and honestly and you know, tell me about the environment that you're
working in. So I really appreciate that and thank you also to Mr Kouchi and
Mr James Pacopac for all their work and the updates. But I know it was really
hard this year So I think a big thanks is owed to you, thanks.
Mr Tokioka. Thank you, Councilmember Kawahara.
Chair Asing: Any other comments, councilmembers?
Councilmember Kawakami.
Mr Kawakami. Yeah, along with thanking Rep Tokioka and
Rep. Morita, Rep. Sagum and Senator Hooser, I'd like to also recognize and I always
call her our fourth Representative. Kaua`i's 4th Representative but Representative
Har also, you know, she had a very open door for the neighbor island counties,
especially Kauai County In fact, she played a pivotal role and I believe it was
Rep Sagum had a resolution for DLNR to do and conduct studies for the Salt Pond
area and she was very supportive of that. In fact, she was very supportive of an
amendment to include the salt makers to be involved in that discussion, so it was
one of the meetings that I just happened to walk in on while I was making my
rounds up at the leg. and I was just very pleased to see how supportive she is of
COUNCIL MEETING -13- May 12, 2010
Kauai. So, I think appropriate recognition is due for Rep Har, who is from the
Westside of Oahu representing Kapolei and the Royal Kunia area. So, mahalo
Rep Har
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any other questions/comments? If
not.
Mr Tokioka. Chair
Chair Asing: Representative Tokioka, thank you, big aloha.
Mr Tokioka. Thank you, Chair It's always a pleasure..
Chair Asing: Mahalo.
Mr Tokioka. to be here with you folks. Thank you.
Chair Asing: I'd like to just make one comment in closing. We
talk about the TAT What people don't fully, fully, really understand, the TAT
represents between $12 and $16 million a year The way the bill was structured, it
was structured that we would lose it for at least a minimum of five years. So, we
would not have between $12 and $16 million for at least a minimum of five years.
So it's not losing one time, one year, $12 to $16 million. It's five years and possibly
more. So that is what is so very, very important to realize that point. With that,
the meeting is now called back to order
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: Can we have a motion. I'm sorry We have
members of the public who want to testify Mr Taylor, my apologies.
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
KEN TAYLOR. Chair and members of the council, my name is Ken
Taylor It's been a rough year for those folks that were on the floor at the state
house and I certainly appreciate the work they've done and the team of individuals
that has represented Kauai, but I think the most important thing that was said
here today because. this year we've squeaked by; we've squeaked by The most
important comment that I heard this morning from Ron, if the economy doesn't get
better, all of this is going to be back on the floor next year We've picked. we've
picked from pockets of dollars stuck here and there that has made it possible to
move forward this year But I think. I think all of us have to realize that it's very
unlikely that the economy's going to be any better next year or the year after and
it's imperative that you folks and the administration keep this in mind and start
working today on what we need to do to solve these problems next year because you
can count on them being back and it's unfortunate, but that's the life of the world
economy and there's nothing on the horizon that shows that it's going to be any
better And so it's imperative today to start working for tomorrow and how are we
going to adjust to these problems next year And I think that's the most important
thing that's going to be required of everybody through this next year and the year
after and the year after that. But I hope as we move forward that we keep that in
mind and really start doing the work that's necessary today so that we'll be able to
better deal with these problems next year Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to
speak on this item? If not, I'd like to call the meeting back to order
COUNCIL MEETING -14- May 12, 2010
There being no one else wishing to speak on this item, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: Can we have a motion to receive, please?
Mr Furfaro: Move to receive.
Mr Chang: Second it.
Chair Asing: Any discussion? All those in favor say, aye.
Mr Furfaro moved to receive C 2010-22 for the record, seconded by
Mr Chang, and unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Can we have the next item please.
Mr Nakamura. Council Chair, the next items on page 1 of the
council's agenda are communications for receipt, communication C 2010-119,
C 2010-120, and C 2010-121.
C 2010-119 Communication (04/12/2010) from the Purchasing Division,
Department of Finance, transmitting for Council information, the Fiscal Year 2009-
2010 Third Quarter Statement of Equipment Purchases: Mr Bynum moved to
receive C 2010-119 for the record, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and unanimously
carried.
C 2010-120 Communication (04/30/2010) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting to the Council supplemental information pertaining to the estimated
reduction in real property tax revenues based on the real property tax assessment
certification for the Fiscal Year 2009-2010: Mr Bynum moved to receive
C 2010-120 for the record, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried.
C 2010-121 Certification (04/30/2010) of the 2010 Real Property Assessment
List within the County of Kauai by the Director of Finance. Mr Bynum moved to
receive C 2010-121 for the record, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and unanimously
carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please.
Mr Nakamura. On the bottom of page 1 of the council's agenda,
communication C 2010-123 for approval.
C 2010-123 Communication (04/20/2010) from the Executive on
Transportation, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, indemnify, and
expend FY 2009 and FY 2010 Federal Transit Administration (FTA) Section 5309
grants relating to capital expenses for the County Transportation Agency in the
amounts of $632,833 and $1,139,300 respectively- Mr Furfaro moved to approve
C 2010-123, seconded by Mr Chang.
Chair Asing: Any discussion?
Mr Furfaro: Mr Chair
Chair Asing: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING _15- May 12, 2010
Mr Furfaro• I would like to make a note here. It's, you
know certainly to expand an effective and complete fleet, but I do want to make
note and I want to thank my colleagues as well, although we did not expand the bus
in this recent budget, I do want to point out and it might have been an oversight in
the media, that we did reinstate the current levels that we had to the tune of
$171,000 00 So hopefully again with these additional grants, we can find ourselves
with the appropriate equipment to continue to manage expenses and therefore I just
wanted to acknowledge why I'm supporting this piece. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any further discussion? If not, all
those in favor, say, aye.
The motion to approve C 2010-123 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please.
Mr Nakamura. Next matter for approval on the top of page 2 of the
council's agenda is communication C 2010-124
C 2010-124 Communication (04/23/2010) from the County Engineer,
requesting Council approval to accept and expend a legislative appropriation
(Act 162 SLH 2009) in the amount of $950,000 for plans and construction of the
Wailua Emergency Bypass Road project. The approximate cost of this project is
$1,900,000 of which the County's participating match is $950,000• Mr Furfaro
moved to approve C 2010-124, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro.
Chair Asing: Any discussion? All right. Let's hang on. I'd like
to suspend the rules.
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
Chair Asing: Glenn.
GLENN MICKENS Thank you, Kaipo, for the record Glenn Mickens.
Just a question, is this. the paving of this bypass road, is this going to be a
permanent bypass road or is it going to still be just for emergency purposes only?
Chair Asing: For emergency purposes only
Mr Mickens: Only, there's no plans for making it a.
Chair Asing: Not at this time.
Mr Mickens: alternate road like the Kapa`a Bypass is.
Chair Asing: Not at this time
Mr Mickens: So that million nine-hundred thousand is just to
repave. to pave the road. I mean, I guess it's, what is it, dirt at this stage of the
game? It's not.
Chair Asing: Yes, they just to do some work so that it can be
used to travel.
Mr Mickens: And will it be able to be opened every time there is
a wreck or anything on Kuhio Highway? I know there's been many, many problems
COUNCIL MEETING - 16 - May 12, 2010
in the past. I heard that it goes through Hawaiian Homelands and when I last
asked they said well, they've got the key to the gate and they couldn't get it open.
Little things like that, I just wondered if it's going to be, you know, completely
accessible to the public so when the traffic is. wreck on Kuhio Highway, it will be
open. That's all.
Chair Asing: Okay, thank you.
Mr Mickens: Thank you.
Chair Asing: Is there anyone else? If not, I'd like to call the
meeting back to order and with that Councilmember Kaneshiro.
There being no one else wishing to speak on this item, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Mr Kaneshiro: Yeah, thank you, Chair I just wanted to make
some comment with the questions, and basically, yes, Mr Speaker or Mr Mickens,
that these. amount is not only for fixing the road, but it's also for fixing the
shoulders; you have guardrails you need to put in. There's many other items that
need to go in besides just fixing the road or paving part of the road to make it safe
so in case of an accident and such where the roads are shut down for awhile, this
would be used as a bypass road to bypass the congested area. So this is the purpose
of this money that we have here before us.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any further discussion? If not, all
those in favor say, aye.
The motion to approve C 2010-124 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please.
Mr Nakamura. Next matter for approval is communication
C 2010-125.
C 2010-125 Communication (04/27/2010) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend the State of Hawaii
Department of Transportation Highway Safety Grant of $14,440.00, to be used for
travel, training and equipment: Mr Furfaro moved to approve C 2010-125,
seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please.
Mr Nakamura. Next matter for approval is communication
C 2010-126.
C 2010-126 Communication (05/04/2010) from the Director of Housing,
requesting Council approval.
(1) to acquire three (3) pending real-estate owned residences (REOs) situated
at: (1) 4421 Kai Ikena Drive, Kalaheo, Hawaii, Tax Map Key (4) 2-3-021-
011, (2) 3599 Horita Road, Lawa`i, Hawaii, Tax Map Key (4) 2-5-010-012;
and (3) 131 Kahiko Street, Kapa`a, Hawaii, Tax Map Key (4) 4-2-016-032,
under the County's Neighborhood Stabilization (NSP) Program
Foreclosure Acquisition, Rehabilitation and Resale Project with funds
COUNCIL MEETING -17- May 12, 2010
received from the State in July 2009 at contracted offer prices not to
exceed $450,000 and subject to the one-percent (1%) discount based on
receipt of the appraisal.
(2) to increase the acquisition price for 3874 Hunakai Street, Lihu`e, Hawaii,
Tax Map Key (4) 3-3-008-019 to $413,000, subject to the one-percent (1%)
discount based on receipt of the appraisal. (Previously approved by
Council in communication C 2010-113, for $399,000)
(3) to authorize the County Clerk to sign any and all legal documents relating
to the above
Mr Furfaro moved to approve C 2010-126, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please.
Mr Nakamura: Next matter for approval at the bottom of page 2 is
a Legal Document transmitted by communication C 2010-127
LEGAL DOCUMENT-
C 2010-127 Communication (04/30/2010) from the Administrative Assistant,
requesting Council authority to execute a contract (right-of-entry agreement)
between the County and Princeville Mauka Village LLC ("Princeville Mauka") to
secure an area for the Department of Public Works, Solid Waste Division's recycling
bins on TMK (4) 5-3-01:02 and to indemnify Princeville Mauka for any claims from
the County's operations.
Right-of-Entry Agreement by and between Princeville Mauka Village,
LLC (Grantor) and County of Kauai (Grantee) for a right to use a portion
of its property situated in Princeville at Hanalei, District of Kalihiwai,
Kauai, Hawaii identified as a portion of tax may key number
(4) 5-3-01:02 subject to terms and conditions.
Chair Asing: Can I have a.
Mr Chang moved to approve the Right-of Entry Agreement attached to
communication C 2010-127, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro
Chair Asing: Any discussion?
Mr Furfaro: Mr Chair
Chair Asing: Yes, go ahead.
Mr Furfaro: This just might be something for the legal
department to look into. This actually might be in the district of Kalihikai, not
Kalihiwai. Just. just.
Chair Asing: Why don't we send a communication to that effect,
to have it corrected.
Mr Furfaro: If they could just double check.
Chair Asing: if in fact it is an error
COUNCIL MEETING -18- May 12, 2010
Mr Furfaro: Yes.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any further discussion? If not, all
those in favor say, aye.
The motion to approve the Right-of-Entry Agreement attached to communication
C 2010-127 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please
Mr Nakamura. Next matter on the top of page 3 are claims,
communication C 2010-128, which is a claim filed against the county by Farmers
Insurance Hawaii, subrogee for the Estate of Bergonia Bienvenido, and
communication C 2010-129, which is a claim filed against the county by Janet Ito.
CLAIMS.
C 2010-128 Communication (04/23/2010) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kauai by Farmers Insurance
Hawaii, subrogee for The Estate of Bergonia Bienvenido, for vehicle damage,
pursuant to Section 23 06, Charter of the County of Kauai: Mr Furfaro moved to
refer C 2010-128 to the Office of the County Attorney for disposition and/or refer
back to the Council, seconded by Mr Bynum, and unanimously carried.
C 2010-129 Communication (04/28/2010) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kauai by Janet Ito for vehicle
damage, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai. Mr Furfaro
moved to refer C 2010-129 to the Office of the County Attorney for disposition
and/or refer back to the Council, seconded by Mr Bynum, and unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: Next item please.
Mr Nakamura. Next matter for approval are Committee Reports.
From your committee on Parks/Transportation, committee report CR-PKT 2010-02.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
PARKS/TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE REPORT:
A report (No. CR-PKT 2010-02) submitted by the Parks/Transportation
Committee, recommending that the following be approved as amended:
"Bill No. 2354 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
SECTION 19-1.3 AND SECTION 19-1.4 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE
1987, AS AMENDED RELATING TO PARKS AND RECREATION,"
Mr Furfaro moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and
unanimously carried. (See later for Bill No. 2354, Draft 1)
Chair Asing: Next item please.
Mr Nakamura. Next committee report for approval from your
committee on planning, committee report CR-PL 2010-10.
COUNCIL MEETING -19- May 12, 2010
PLANNING COMMITTEE REPORT:
A report (No. CR-PL 2010-10) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be approved as amended.
"Bill No. 2339 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ARTICLE 8 OF
CHAPTER 8 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING
TO DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS IN THE OPEN DISTRICT,"
Mr Furfaro moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and
unanimously carried. (See later for Bill No. 2339, Draft 1)
Chair Asing: Let's take a short recess.
There being no objection, the meeting was recessed at 10.10 a.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 10:29 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: The council meeting is now called back to order
With that, Mr Clerk, can we have the next item please?
Mr Nakamura. Council Chair, next matter.. next matters are Bills
For Second Reading on page 3 of the council's agenda. First bill for second reading
is Bill No. 2339, Draft 1.
BILLS FOR SECOND READING
Bill No. 2339, Draft 1 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ARTICLE 8 OF CHAPTER 8 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS
AMENDED, RELATING TO DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS IN THE OPEN
DISTRICT
Mr Furfaro: Move to approve.
Mr Kaneshiro: Hold on, hold on.
Mr Bynum. Second.
Chair Asing: Hang on, please Councilmember Kaneshiro first.
Mr Kaneshiro: Mr Chair, I have a circulation or a memorandum
that I want to be excused or recuse myself from this Open District amendment as
possible conflict of interest because I do have land that contains open district.
Mr Kaneshiro promptly left the meeting before any discussion on this item and was
noted as recused.
Chair Asing'. Thank you. With that, can I have a motion to
approve?
Mr Furfaro moved to adopt Bill No. 2339, Draft 1 on second and final reading, and
that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Mr Bynum.
Chair Asing: Any discussion? Councilmember Bynum.
COUNCIL MEETING -20- May 12, 2010
Mr Bynum. Yeah, I'll. this is a bill that changes the density in
the Open Space on agricultural land. It came from the administration. It was first
contemplated in the General Plan and I wanted to just bring the attention. our
attention to the map that's on the back wall here, which is the area of the island
from Kealia to the North Shore. During the co. you know, I believe that it's
accurate that at this time we're the last county in the State of Hawaii that allows
subdivision of agricultural lands for de facto residential where very little agriculture
occurs. And the General Plan anticipated us passing this bill that I hope passes
today But the. currently in this area of the island, the orange on this map is
agricultural land that's divided into CPRs. The yellow parcels are subdivided
agricultural land with less than 15 acres. parcels less than 15 acres. There are
1,895 parcels on this map that are CPR'd and 1,445 ag parcels or agricultural
subdivided lots that are less than 15 acres and I think that the concern in the
General Plan was that we were using agricultural land for residential purposes
without really having a requirement that agriculture be done and that it would
impact prime agricultural land and eventually but also put development onto
large lots that, you know, are not really no longer affordable for working people
who live on Kauai. You know, if you. you know, in 2000 there still were these
parcels available that working class people and, you know, middle income people
could afford, but that ship has sailed. And so this bill is a very important part of
addressing that issue. It reduces the density bonus that. in the Open District. But
it's, I believe in my opinion, not the only step that needs to be taken. There's been a
discussion at this council for many years about density and use, and we have yet to
address the issue of use that when you subdivide agricultural land, there should
be. it should be demonstrated that it's for agricultural use. So there may be future
bills in the future to help, I think, fully close this loophole in our planning process.
So. and I'm going to be in support of this bill today, so thank you very much for
that opportunity
Chair Asing: Thank you, any other discussion? Go ahead,
Councilmember Furfaro.
Mr Furfaro: Yes, I appreciate the map being up there, but I do
also want to point out that, you know, Kilauea Sugar closed in August of 1973. The
areas in Kilauea identified in this map, as well as 1978 areas identified within the
Princeville Ag area, these were things that happened in 1976 and 1978, so it is a
long time coming. And as a member of the General Plan in this decade, it is
something that was put on the radar screen to address and what we're addressing
here is open districts will be treated as ag districts when it comes to what
Mr Bynum referred to as the density bonus. This was a very interesting and longly
(sic) debated item in the General Plan. It is something that is in the General Plan,
the 2000 General Plan, and unfortunately we've got a lot of work yet to do because
it all was subject to approval under the real estate commission, which has controls
over the CPRs and not our local zoning. What will help us as we go forward in local
zoning would be dealing with use, as Mr Bynum pointed out, versus zoning
densities. I would also like to point out in this bill and thank you to the county
attorney's office, we have some preliminary definitions that would work where those
that were in process and had preliminary subdivision approvals for this zoning
change, the line was, you might say, drawn in the sand going forward, so this is
about items that go forward, and as I said I served on the General Plan when this
was suggested. It came from Mayor Baptiste's office and later from Mayor
Carvalho's office, and I will be supporting these district changes, but again, you
know, these are items that go back almost 34 years. So, it's been another
accomplishment in the General Plan and I will be supporting it. Thank you,
Mr Chair
COUNCIL MEETING -21- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any further discussion?
Councilmember Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you, Chair Asing. I'm very happy to support
this bill and for the same reasons that Councilmembers Bynum and Furfaro have
spoken about. It's been a long road to get here to do one of the items at least that
the General Plan has asked to take away or reduce that density bonus, so I'm very
happy to support this bill. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any other discussion? If not, I would
like to make a few comments. Before you put that map up, Steph, let me just make
a few comments. Now, in reference to maybe ...let me have the mike. In reference
to the comment that was made about the 15 acres here in the yellow, it doesn't
matter It doesn't matter whether it's 15 acres or not because it still comes under
state jurisdiction. You can say the county, yes, but the laws on 205 still stand. So
you cannot take that away, so you should not be discarding the yellow and say
15 acres under county State law still applies. So I want that clear
Could you put up the map, please? And I agree with all the things that was
said by Councilmember Bynum and Councilmember Furfaro. What I want to show
you is the real impact and the real impact, of course, was what
Councilmember Furfaro talked about, and here's what the bill does. As an example,
this is over 350 acres here, this is the Kulana subdivision here, and in the Kulana
subdivision, there happens to be an area that is zoned open. The purple area here
is the open area and because it's such a large area within the confines of the entire
parcel, the bonuses that come out of that area is huge, huge in number and that is
the reason these lots here were. were subdivided into approximately 20 subdivided
lots. Then the CPR process got in and then if you see all of the CPR lots here, they
total approximately 93. So, you have 93 units on this property here. Now, what
you're really saying is that what this bill does is it takes away the bonus coming
from this open area and treats this as though it was ag. And because of that, the
estimate right now, I worked with the deputy planning director yesterday so that
we can get some numbers, let's look at numbers approximately what we can do. It
is not easy to work out. The formula is not simple and easy because you can
take. you use ratios and you can take these ratios and the developers are smarter
than us. They find the loopholes; they know what to do; they know how to
maximize things. So, they will take it and use the ratios to say this lot, I'll make it
this size because I can get that many CPR units. This lot I'll do that size so I can
make so many units. This one I'll do it smaller, this one larger, and they will work
those formulas out. So that's what the smart people will do and that's the reason I
say, be careful of what we do here because they will find the loopholes if we're not
careful. So, the deputy and I worked on this yesterday and so what we're really
saying is under today's rules, so to speak, the developer was able to get
93 units, Jots.. subdivided lots - that's not the right term, it's really units because
it's CPR'd. So all we're saying is this parcel here, they used their ingenuity,
creativity, and so this whole thing here amounted to approximately 93 units. Under
the law that we're going to pass today, the maximum amount they can get is
approximately 45 So you can see the reduction, 93 versus, we pass this,
approximately 45 is the most they can squeeze out. But like I say, it's not that
simple and easy to do. There's a lot of calculations that you can do on sizing the lots
so you can maximize, but this bill will do that. I will be supporting this bill. It's a
long time in coming. We tried many years ago, the votes were just not there. The
developer, the brokers, the realtors put so much pressure on councils before that the
votes was just not there. So, I'm just pleased and happy these types of what I call
motherhood and apple pie, it's simple, easy, do it, we should have done it a long
COUNCIL MEETING -22- May 12, 2010
time ago, but it wasn't easy to get here. Times have changed and so I will be
supporting the bill. Thank you.
Chair Asing: With that I'd like to call the meeting back to order
Any further discussion? Yes, go ahead, Councilmember Furfaro.
Mr Furfaro: Yes, thank you, Mr Chair, for referencing, you
know, this goes back to 1973, closing of Kilauea Sugar, 1978 and it was just another
item we can address that dealt with, you know, some of the things that came out of
the General Plan. I just wanted to revisit again it basically makes the open district
in the way of density the same cap as we have in the ag districts. And that's a
major change.
Chair Asing: Yes.
Mr Furfaro: So, thank you again.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any further discussion? Oh, I'm sorry,
the rules are suspended.
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
GLENN MICKENS. Thank you, Kaipo, for your presentation for
informational purposes. I live right beside that Kulana development. It's been
there for like seven years or more and it's just sitting. It's a real inconvenience to
the people in that area. Maybe you can refresh me and the people as to when that
thing is actually going to be. and you're saying that now that they can only have
45 units in there as opposed to the 92? Is that what I.
Chair Asing: No, I did not say that.
Mr Furfaro: I can answer that.
Chair Asing: Go ahead.
Mr Furfaro: If you don't mind, I'll answer
Chair Asing: Councilman Furfaro, yeah.
Mr Furfaro: This.
Mr Mickens: I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.
Mr Furfaro: This bill cannot go retroactive. This is going
forward so that this would not happen to us where they got the double bonus that
Mr Asing mentioned or the bonus density that Mr Bynum mentioned. Going
forward, no projects that do not have preliminary subdivision approval can seek
this.
Mr Mickens: So those people that bought those lots under the
other old rules, you can't change those. Those are. those are.
Chair Asing: No.
Mr Mickens: static.
COUNCIL MEETING -23- May 12, 2010
Mr Furfaro Unfort. un.
Mr Mickens: But Mr Asing, maybe you'd.. do you have any idea
when that subdivision will be finalized? When are they going to ever finish it?
There's a road going through there, there's Hauiki that comes around the other side
That's going to have to be ironed out, but the developer had to put that road, which
is fine, it's a 20-foot road going through the subdivision, and you know, the people
up there just continually wonder when, when and what is going to happen with
that.
Chair Asing: Let me just answer it this way, Glenn, you know,
the developer was in there, is in there to make money, that's his job, his function. I
don't have anything against him, that's his job, that's his work, that's how he makes
a living. It's up to us to put laws in place to prevent people from abusing the
system. Now I want to also tell you that under our system presently, we have no
control on the CPR portion. It is not the county's function. It is within the state's
jurisdiction. So, that's why we need to be careful on what we do on what we allow
knowing that they can do this additional piece. So we need to strengthen our
portion and that is what the bill is trying to do today, strengthen our portion, so
that they cannot abuse it. They've abused it; we fought it; and because it is a state
function, it's very difficult for us. So, thank you.
Mr Mickens: But. but there is nothing that the county can do as
far as mandating or anything, getting them to open that subdivision then, right?
Chair Asing: It's possible. Go ahead, Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. Yeah, I just. I want to say start by saying I agree
with everything the Chair just said. You know, this particular subdivision, like a
number of situations on Kauai, is impacted by the change in the economy and
there's a lot of complex issues that we can't go into, but the subdivision is done The
lines are drawn and you know, we can't undo that. It's very difficult for county
government to try to undo what's already been done, and we have to be very careful
because once you take a big chunk of land and divide it and draw lines and have
separate ownerships, that virtually forever., that's gone. You can't. I mean, it's
possible, but short of purchasing every lot, it's very difficult. So this is a step that
was called for and it's. and there are others.
Mr Mickens: I understand that, Timmy, I understand exactly
what you're saying, what Jay just pointed out, and what Kaipo. you're going
forward. That's not the issue that I'm concerned about.
Mr Bynum. Right.
Mr Mickens: I'm just wondering whether or not anything can be
done to mandate that they open up that thing in a certain length of time, seven
years.
Chair Asing: Glenn, not. not at this time.
Mr Mickens: Okay
Mr Bynum. These are pretty complex issues, so.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING -24- May 12, 2010
Mr Mickens: Okay, thank you, Kaipo.
Chair Asing: Is there anyone else? If not, I'd like to call the
meeting back to order We have a motion to approve on the floor Is there any
further discussion? If not, all those. I'm sorry, roll call, please.
The motion to adopt Bill No. 2339, Draft 1 on second and final reading was then put
and carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION Bynum, Chang, Furfaro, Kawahara,
Kawakami, Asing TOTAL - 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION None TOTAL - 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING None TOTAL - 0
RECUSED & NOT VOTING Kaneshiro TOTAL - 1.
Chair Asing: Can we have the next item, please? Thank you,
Imai.
Mr Bynum. Thank you, Imai.
(Inaudible.)
Mr Furfaro: Thank you, young man.
Councilmember Kaneshiro was noted to have returned to the meeting at
10:51 a.m.
Mr Nakamura. Council Chair, my apologies, next bill for second
reading is Bill No. 2354, Draft 1.
Bill No. 2354, Draft 1 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
SECTION 19-1.3 AND SECTION 19-1.4 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987,
AS AMENDED RELATING TO PARKS AND RECREATION
Chair Asing: Thank you.
Mr Bynum. Move to approve.
Chair Asing: Before. before we entertain a motion, what I'd like
to do is. I'd like to call in someone to make a presentation first. With that, could I
have the chief, could you come up please?
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
Chief Westerman. Aloha, Chair, Chief Westerman, County of Kauai.
Chair Asing: Yes. Chief.
Chief Westerman. You want Norman to come up too?
Chair Asing: Yes, please. Before we start, what I'd like to do is
I'd like for the councilmembers to listen to a report that was made that I was made
aware of a few days ago and I think it's very, very important to this bill that we're
about to enact, and with that, I'd like to have the testimony of Norman Hunter, who
is the supervisor of the lifeguards at the Lydgate Station. With that Chief, I'll leave
it to you.
COUNCIL MEETING -25- May 12, 2010
Chief Westerman. I'll just leave it to Norman to impart to you the
information that he provided us the other day, so
Chair Asing: Okay, thank you.
NORMAN HUNTER, Lifeguard Supervisor, Lydgate Station. Good morning.
We.
Chair Asing: Let me just do it this way There was an incident
that happened at the area, and I'm going to show you the area now, can. we'll have
just a short minute or two of recess so we can set up, please. Steph, you can show
the. Can we have the lights off and move in the screen. I think. Steph, could
we... Okay, that' s a little better, but what I'd like to do is first explain the area. I
think it's very Hello, hello, am I on? Okay, I want to explain the area of this
incident and before I do that, I think, Steph, could you show the other slide, please.
Ooo. Okay Let me do it this way This is. (inaudible) let me start off with the
pavilion area. This is the Lydgate Pavilion here. This area here is the sewer
station. This area here is the soccer fields. So, you get from the Kauai Resort area
here and the road comes along here, this is Leho, I believe, and you enter the
grounds to the Lydgate Park area here. If you keep on coming down, you enter the
other roadway that comes down in this section and this area here in red is the
Kamalani Bridge area. Now, what you need to know and understand is under the
current ordinance, all of this entire area is where dogs are not permitted currently,
they're not permitted. Under the present proposed ordinance, only this section from
here to here will be no dogs allowed. Everything else dogs would be allowed. Now,
what Mr Hunter is going to discuss today and report is this section here. This
section here is the Kamalani Bridge area and with that I will open it up to
Mr Hunter Go ahead, Norman.
Mr Hunter: Good morning. The incident involved has been.
Chair Asing: Pull the mike up close to you, please.
Mr Hunter- The incident involved has been an ongoing process
throughout the past year-and-a-half or so due to the fact that the population has
moved farther south. The playground was set up for children.
(Inaudible.)
Chair Asing: Maybe you ought to throw up the other slide
(inaudible) no, the other one.
Mr Hunter Okay, down in this area here is. our lifeguard
tower is down in this area here. The majority of the population stays down in the
major part of the park. Through the last year-and-a-half or so, the population, since
the. everything has been cleaned and the sidewalk has been very well used, the
Kamalani Bridge area is a very popular place on the weekdays and weekends.
There are baby parties now that are set up down in that area. It's also in the
makings of a campsite. So, as our lifeguards run the beach and we do periodic
checks down in this area, we have had reports of people that run the beach down
here, come down by the Kaha Lani condos, and they run the beach and the dogs
have been coming out of the parking lot on the far south by this bathroom and the
playground area, the bridge. We've had incidents, this last one was reported to me
last week Thursday of a resident that has pretty much been attacked more than
once. This is the first time that I've witnessed a bite. I have seen the bite on his
COUNCIL MEETING -26- May 12, 2010
arm, he didn't want to make any kind of police report or anything. He just wanted
to find out why the dogs were allowed in this portion of the park. And being
lifeguards, we're not. we try to help with the park keepers, we try to help with the
park rangers, but we. we don't really know the rules or if. why the dogs were
allowed in that area. But the dogs have been coming out of the parking area.
According to him, the dogs came out of the parking area, down by the bridge here,
and they run right onto the bridge. The owners might be taking them off the leash
or might not have them on a leash, but they've been running off the park area and
down onto the beach. Our lifeguards have also run the beach for exercise and they
have also been attacked, not by the same dogs, but by many different owners. From
the. there are good owners and there are some that just don't pay attention to the
rules. But from this dry river bed here on the opposite side, the Lihu`e side of the
bridge is where we understand is that the DLNR takes over from that portion down.
The county side is from the dry river bed back towards Kapa a. But we've had many
reports and incidents of people that run the beach or not too many people are very
easy around dogs. But our portion of this is basically public safety So we take the
reports and we try to follow up on them. This particular individual was pretty
upset and he had. I witnessed the dog bite on his elbow just below his elbow and
he said it was a German Shepherd. We witnessed other dogs that have been
attacking our lifeguards as they've been running the beaches. Most of the area and
the people can't get on that beach from there, so they park their car and they stay
on the south end of the. by the Kamalani Playground, Kamalani Bridge. We've
noticed the population moving south. On the weekends there are big luaus that are
set up, up to 300 people or so, that are set up in this area down by the new south
bathroom. So between where they are stating that they're trying to make the dogs
allowed on the path, in the past granted that there hasn't been too many people
down there, but nowadays the local people really use his portion of the park because
the major portion of the park is so crowded. The lifeguards take counts and some of
our counts come up to two thousand or more and it's only in the areas that we can
see, which is the main pavilion and down to the baby pond, back towards where
Mr Asing said is the big pohaku there with the Lydgate, where they're planning on
opening.
As far as public safety-wise, we've had many people that are very nervous
about it opening up because of the fact that they're not too sure they're so far away
from help in case of a dog bite or a case of somebody being attacked down there.
We're probably a good quarter mile away from any of the closest incidents. So, our
portion of this is just to report a public safety side of it all, and that's really what
we're mostly concerned about is whatever the people think is right for them, but
we're. the population definitely on the weekends can get up to a thousand people
from where the pohaku is, the great. the big stone, down towards the Kamalani
Bridge. And we had to call Mr John Martin to find out some of the rules and
regulations and Mr Martin has been very cordial with us. We are only trying to
report this, not because we're against dogs or anything. We're. once again, just
basically we're concerned for the public's safety, and as far as this situation, that's
all we're really concerned with and we're just reporting it because if it does open, we
m. there could be many potentials for different incidents that arise down there.
Not only would it be dog bites, but it could be confrontations between partygoers or
people, and dog owners because like we were saying, not all dog owners are
responsible and some are very responsible, so. We're stuck in the middle and all we
want to do is state that we are concerned for the public's safety And that's all we're
looking for
This incident did occur and it occurred to the same person more than once,
which is why he came up to ask us that day, and it just. I just so happened to be
there and be the person to have received the report.
COUNCIL MEETING -27- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: Thank you. You can turn the lights on.
Mr Nakamura. Sammy, could you drop the captioning to the
bottom?
Chair Asing: Any questions? Any questions, councilmembers?
Yes, Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. Hi, Norman, thanks for being here.
Mr Hunter Thank you.
Mr Bynum. This incident that you're talking about where dogs
that were off-leash.
Mr Hunter- Yes, sir
Mr Bynum. and your I think you know better than most
because you spend a lot of time down there.
Mr Hunter- Yes.
Mr Bynum. But people access that whole state portion of the
beach fronting the golf course from that end of the park.
Mr Hunter- Yes, sir
Mr Bynum. And so it's generally on that end of the park where
loose dogs have been an issue.
Mr Hunter- Yes, most people are very respectable about the
major portion of the park and there are signs posted. So, the park rangers have
been real good about following up and they're very limited in staff. So some days on
the weekends we easily, Mother's Day I think wasn't too busy, but most of our
weekends we have big parties and now a lot of the other families are starting to set
up on the south side which is a very good area for them. We've seen situations up to
maybe three, four hundred people set ups, sometimes two luaus that are set up in
that portion and the Kaha Lani, which is all of the tourists come out of there. So a
lot of the tourists actually walk the beach from the Hilton all the way down to
Lydgate. So that portion back there has been a concern for us and more so with the
animals, the ones that aren't. the owners aren't very responsible. But the ones
that have been, you know, there's no problem with them.
Mr Bynum. So, you know that the bill that's currently before us
would allow owners to walk their dogs on a leash on the path and within 6 feet of
the path.
Mr Hunter- Yes, sir That's really whatever the public would
like. We're with the public and we agree with. we respect the council's decision.
Ours is basically a public safety issue.
Mr Bynum. And I think we've definitely learned over this last
couple years that dog owners that are disobeying the leash law and allowing loose
dogs are a significant issue on this island. You know, a lot of the testimony we
received from people who walked the path is that because of the attention that
COUNCIL MEETING -28- May 12, 2010
there are fewer loose dogs on the area where people are walking their dogs. And
owners are, you know, dog. responsible dog owners are drop on a dime and you
know, and even encouraging those owners to get their dogs on a leash and so, you
know, I appreciate the testimony I think that's a separate issue, just my opinion
about loose dogs.
Mr Hunter Yes, sir
Mr Bynum. that clearly are an issue, not only along our
beaches but in neighborhoods. We heard testimony during this time about folks
feeling safer to walk their dogs on the path because they are less likely to encounter
loose dogs than they are in their own neighborhoods, so
Mr Hunter Yes, sir
Mr Bynum. One of the clear messages I've gotten over the last
couple of years with these issues is that we need to enforce the leash law, which is
the primary law that communities use with.. to set expectations for dog owners,
that you take your dog in public, they have to be on a leash, it's the law
That's right.
Mr Bynum. So, thank you for your testimony
Mr Hunter You're welcome. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Any other questions, comments? If not,
I'd. Councilmember Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony and it's
good to see you here and I appreciate the presentation and I understand that there
ha. that it's a difficult thing to be in when people aren't behaving responsibly with
their dogs. I'm. I was happy to hear you say that you make a distinction between
responsible dog owners that do have and do use leashes versus the ones that run
loose that nobody seems to be around watching them, yeah?
Mr Hunter- Yes.
Ms. Kawahara. So, Mr when you were talking to parks and
recreation, were they able to tell you what the laws were?
Mr Hunter Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Kawahara. and if those were illegal as. as. and should have
been prosecuted or whatever?
Mr Hunter Up until this point, Mr Martin has been very
cordial with us and he's very informative. We understand that it hasn't opened yet,
it's still part of a county park, so at that point it would still be illegal for dogs to be
down in that area. He's been really informative to us. So, we're just passing it to
our guys in the tower because we are the public safety people.
Ms. Kawahara. Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING -29- May 12, 2010
Mr Hunter- and we're the only ones in that area. So they'll
come to us for medical or information and if we don't have the information, we have
direct connection with Mr Martin in parks and rec.
Ms. Kawahara. Okay, so the bill itself would be saying that dogs on
the leash, under control of their owners or their people would be allowable, yeah,
not loose dogs running free.
Mr Hunter Yes, ma'am, we're not really against or for, we're
just basically concerned for the public's (inaudible)
Ms. Kawahara. And thank you, I appreciate it. I just wanted to see
that you were getting information that you needed or wanted from parks.
Mr Hunter Yes, ma'am, we have
Ms. Kawahara. Okay, thank you.
Mr Hunter- Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Chang.
Mr Chang: Thank you, Chair Norman Hunter, great to see
you and thank you for your testimony You know I think the key here is what you
witnessed and what your lifeguards been seeing is the fact that there are sadly
irresponsible dog owners that are letting their dogs off the chain. This is all about
responsible dog ownership and walking the dogs.
I had a brief moment prior to your testimony to let you know there is an
amendment that where the pohaku stands, as you mentioned, opposite the
Kamalani Kai Bridge, Kaha Lam, from that quarter of a mile heading toward your
tower till the end of the road prior to the heiau, that is the area that's going to
exclude dogs. You cannot walk your dogs there even with the. with a chain. Last
week I had made mention because I was not in and around the area when soccer
games were going on with the kids. So a lot of times you think about a soccer field,
this is a field, but a lot of people don't realize the ball goes out of bounds, so that
consequently may cross the path. But what I had asked the responsible dog owners
is, you know, there are going to be times that the park is going to be utilized
heavily There are going to be times that the Kamalani Bridge area is going to be
utilized heavily During the weekdays, from what I had witnessed, it's almost
underutilized. Would you agree with that?
Mr Hunter Yes, sir
Mr. Chang: Okay, so those are the times that I would like to let
the public know and, you know, ask them. there are times that make sense that
you don't walk your dog, ride your bike, do a picnic. I mean when you know places
are crowded, in most cases you try to avoid those areas. And I'm hoping that
because the path, what we're proposing, is so wide open that there may be times
that an isolated area that is "an isolated area" such as Kealia to Kuna Bay could be
a little bit more utilized or the other parts of the path could be pretty much more
utilized. So I'm hoping. and I'm glad you brought up those concerns because
during the weekdays from what I had witnessed and what I've seen, the majority of
the people, weekday, weekend, what have you is by the pavilion, by your Lydgate
pond, by your lifeguard tower, by your shower, by the comfort station and that was
the area that I had the most concern with because as you know, many of the picnic
COUNCIL MEETING -30- May 12, 2010
tables are right up against the sidewalk and as you mentioned the luaus and the
tarps, it's right up against the sidewalk. So there's no 6 feet here, no 6 feet there,
and I believe that was a compromise that a lot of people could understand why we
were doing what we're doing. So from what I witnessed at the times that I go there
in the morning or the latter part of the afternoon on a weekday per se, I think it's a
very, very therapeutic area because nobody is around that area, and also do think
that the Kamalani Bridge area is also underutilized. I don't think as much people
treasure that. that gift by walking in the maze as much as the playground. I used
to be the activity coordinator from. for Pahio Resorts way back when it was Pahio,
so I did the morning sunrise walks from the then Hilton to the Kamalani Bridge
and the Kamalani Park area, and I guess those were the days that people would
drive their trucks behind the golf course or what have you. But I do understand
trucks on the sand is illegal also.
Mr Hunter No, Dickie.
Mr Chang: . unless for fishing purp
Mr Hunter- Unless for fishing.
Mr Chang: Yeah.
Mr Hunter- but a lot of that has been. gone out the window
because there's not very much enforcement down there. So there are quite a few
trucks back there now
Mr Chang: And that point that we're making reference to is
DLNR versus the county, correct?
Mr Hunter- Yes, sir
Mr Chang: So I'm hoping that, you know, when we can get our
ranger staff up to full capacity, I'm hoping that that area of concern during a
crowded area would be easily easier to enforce because if that quarter of a mile of
Lydgate is off limits to the dogs, the concentration can be in and around the area of
the soccer fields, Kamalani Bridge area for enforcement. And we hope that that
would be an easier area to keep an eye out of because obviously they got the whole
island to take care of.
Mr Hunter- Yes, yes, Dickie, the one thing that and the only
thing that really sticks out in our mind, like I said, was public safety We don't
know how to follow through on a dog bite. We don't know what type of liability it
stands for us or the county if we don't follow through on the dog bites. Our basic
concern is the ocean and we. anybody behind us or around us is a possible victim
for us if something happens in a party or then we are called first and then
Station 2 will be called. But the only thing that we're stuck in the middle of is, are
public safety issues and that really is all we're really worried about is if somebody
does get bit and if our lifeguards are busy doing a rescue or if they're doing
something else and they don't get directly to this dog bite, could it affect us as safety
officers.
Mr Chang: And.. and again, thank you for bringing up that
concern because we're equally as concerned and we. we know that your job as a
water safety officer goes way beyond being a water safety officer as you also deal
with, you know, sadly theft or break-ins and dogs and that, so thank you for your
testimony
COUNCIL MEETING -31- May 12, 2010
Mr Hunter Thank you.
Chair Asing: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Mr Kaneshiro: You mentioned at one point that you did a count
roughly? I didn't get the number You said.
Mr Hunter We have a what we do daily logs and on the
weekends from the pohaku that Mr Chang's talking about down towards. we get
counts of up to, but it's not on our log because it's kind of out of our area, we can get
up to a thousand people back there on the weekends. The bridge is.
Mr Kaneshiro• On the weekends.
Mr Hunter Yes, sir
Mr Kaneshiro: using those places.
Mr Hunter Yes, weekends, yes, sir
Mr Kaneshiro: Okay, thanks.
Mr Hunter You're welcome.
Chair Asing: Thank you. You know, we're due for a caption
break, so.
Mr Furfaro: I just want to ask one question.
Chair Asing: Okay, sure.
Mr Furfaro• When I was with the City & County of Honolulu,
we did beach counts every hour I want to make sure you're talking this is a
thousand count in an hour
Mr Hunter Oh no, sir, probably in a day
Mr Furfaro: In a day, okay
Mr Hunter In a day
Mr Furfaro. So, it's not peaked at a thousand, say at one o'clock
when everybody's.
Mr Hunter No, most of the population hits a thousand at the
major part.
Mr Furfaro• For the day?
Mr Hunter Yes, sir, yes.
Mr Furfaro: It's not on an hourly basis?
Mr Hunter No, we do do counts on an hourly basis.
COUNCIL MEETING -32- May 12, 2010
Mr Furfaro- You count hourly
Mr Hunter but for our area, yeah.
Mr Furfaro. Okay, thank you, Mr Chair
Chair Asing: Okay, let's take the caption break now and then
we'll be right back. Thank you.
The meeting was recessed at 11.16 a.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 11.35 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: The meeting is called back to order With that, the
rules are still suspended. Chef, Mr Hunter? Thank you.
The rules were still suspended.
Chair Asing: Norman, when. when did the dog bite occur?
Mr Hunter- Last week Wednesday I think it was the 5th or 6th
of the month.
Chair Asing: Did I hear you say that it is. it was the second
time that the individual was bitten?
Mr Hunter- This was the first time that he showed me the bite
and I witnessed it. He had said that he's been approached a few times before by
dogs, but this was the first time that I actually saw a bite on him.
Chair Asing: Did you actually see the bite on the individual?
Mr Hunter- Yes, sir, I saw the bite. It was puncture wounds
just below his right elbow
Chair Asing: Okay So in. in your responsibility in the area
there, would you say that it would not be in our best interest for the safety of our
community members to allow dogs to be walking in the area of the Kamalani Bridge
and that. those areas? Would you. what is your opinion as a safety officer in the
area?
Mr Hunter- As a safety officer, I see more than one issue
towards safety It would sound like it would be a personal opinion of mine, but I'm
strictly here for public safety and I don't really know how to answer that question.
Chair Asing: Okay, okay, yeah, I don't want you. I don't want to
put you on the spot of trying to do a personal opinion.
Mr Hunter- Yes, sir
Chair Asing: What I was looking for was as a professional safety
officer is what I was looking for and not a personal opinion.
Mr Hunter- Okay
COUNCIL MEETING -33- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: I believe your function there is for the protection
and safety of our community members. So that was what the question was.
Mr Hunter Yes, I agree on that statement. I would say as a
public safety officer I would not think it would be a safe issue.
Chair Asing: Thank you. That. that's all I have Is there any
other questions for Norman? If not, thank you very much, appreciate it.
Mr Hunter Thank you. Thank you for all your help
Chair Asing: And appreciate that. What I'd like to do now is I'd
like to read this report into the record. This is the report from Norman Hunter to
Chief Westerman. 5/11/10, that's the date. Report on dog bite. On the morning of
5/6/10 (May 6, 2010), Thursday, I was approached by a resident who frequents
Lydgate Beach Park. He was very frustrated about being bitten by a German
Shepherd on his morning run. I personally witnessed the bite on his forearm right
below his elbow on his right arm. I asked him if he needed assistance with his bite.
He did not want assistance, but asked why dogs are allowed on the Kamalani
Bridge end of the county park for this has been the second time he has been
attacked running on the beach. The dogs and their owners were coming from the
parking area fronting the south bathroom. Owners are releasing their dogs and
they are chasing after beachgoers and people running the sidewalk and the beach.
This has happened to lifeguards when they are running on the beach for their
morning workouts. We have warned owners of putting dogs on leashes. I did not
have any answers and told him I would seek information on the matter I will call
Mr John Martin, who is the head of the park rangers for information, and the
notation. called John the afternoon of Thursday, 5/6/10, the date May 6, 2010 with
the bite information, and it's signed by the water safety officer, Norman Hunter So
I wanted to read that into the record.
With that, what I'd like to do is now open it up to the public for the public's
comments on the bill. With that, the rules are suspended.
Chair Asing: Mr Mickens.
GLENN MICKENS: Thank you, Kaipo, for the record Glenn Mickens.
Thank you, Ricky First I really want to thank my friend Norm Hunter for his fine
testimony I've had tremendous respect for Norm, for Bob and all the water safety
people. I've known them for many years. I would ask that Bill 2354 be carefully
reviewed by this council. You have a copy of my testimony I'll read it for the
record. Before it's passed, I believe a lot more research should be done on what the
18-month study showed before allowing dogs or any animals, because I presume if it
says dogs. I presume that's going to give the right for any animals can use that
park on this total path.
The 90+ percent of those asked and approved they wanted dogs on this path
were people with dogs. That makes this poll very skewed. It would be like asking
the foxes, who wants to guard the henhouse if that's what they want to do.
When the workers, the rangers, the worker's union, the mayor and director of
parks and recreation was asked if dogs belonged on the path, they either said no or
agreed to let the northern section of the path be used for dog walkers, a far more
neutral poll than the other one. Actually this poll was a realistic one where those
that had to clean up and maintain this path were quizzed and the administration,
knowing the liability problems that could be faced, opted to let only the northern
COUNCIL MEETING -34- May 12, 2010
portion of the path be used for the dogs and as you just heard Norman testify,
somebody was already bit. But somebody was bit with the law now not allowing
animals. Can you imagine what's going to happen if you allow all animals, dogs on
that path? Can you imagine the liability problem?
I heard over and over that animals were not allowed in parks by ordinance.
Since I believe that since this law prohibiting dogs in parks is on the books, the
proposed ordinance, Bill 2354, should state whether it's meant to supersede the
existing ordinance and I don't believe that this bill does that.
Also under Section 19-1.4 Article 10 which says, no person at a park or
recreation facility shall drive or park motorized vehicles etc., etc., etc. unless
authorized by the director or his designated representative by signage or on a
permit. By the Kapa`a Neighborhood Center vehicles drive on the bike path and
park on it to use their residence and I presume they have a right to do that. Even if
this person or persons has a permit, isn't just. this just an accident waiting to
happen if young kids or older and ADA people feel this path is safe for their use,
and fishermen drive across that. their vehicles across the path at that same
location - more ill planning.
And finally, I would encourage everyone to read Andy Park's blog of May 10th
regarding this path. It's outstanding and factually informative. I'm sure you guys
have seen it on the computer before. He's got windows.
The other thing about the concerns of the original 18-month trial period that
you guys issued, grievance filed on March llth, employees are not comfortable
evidenced by the staff survey Additional maintenance concerns, staffing shortages,
meeting public. none of these things have been addressed. All I heard was, you
know, where you're going to introduce this Bill 2354, dogs are going to be able to
walk on the total part of the path.
Daryl, I thought made an excellent point. Certain places may go through the
wetlands on this thing. That's going to be a huge issue. You're not going to
get.. you know, you're going to have to come back and revise this, put some kind of
a rider on this thing and say it.
Mr Nakamura. Three minutes, Mr Chair
Mr Mickens: Anyway, this is my opinion. Any questions, I'll be
happy to answer Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any questions? Councilmember
Chang.
Mr Chang: Thank you, Chair Good morning, Mr Mickens.
Mr Mickens: Good morning, Dickie.
Mr Chang: Have you been on the path recently?
Mr Mickens: Not just recently, no.
Mr Chang: When was the last time you were on the path?
Mr Mickens: About a month ago
COUNCIL MEETING -35- May 12, 2010
Mr Chang: Okay, can you tell me where. the areas you
biked/walked along the path.
Mr Mickens: Basically in Lydgate Park from where the
lifeguard. where Norm's lifeguard station or whoever the lifeguard happens to be,
from there up to north and from there down to the Kamalani Bridge by the golf
course.
Mr Chang: So the current existing path from the boat harbor
to south Kealia, when was the last time that you walked that portion or biked it?
Mr Mickens: By Lihi boat ramp?
Mr Chang: Yes.
Mr Mickens: It's been several months ago that I was there, but I
used to. before that. before the. soon that path was put in there, I used to jog
from Pono Kai up to Donkey Beach on that same route.
Mr Chang: Okay, and then have you ever been up to. so
you've been up to Kuna Bay area itself?
Mr Mickens: Yes, yes.
Mr Chang: Okay, because what I would like to report from
what I've been saying, I think the shared-use path is respected amongst walkers,
joggers, bikers, people that are walking their dogs and unfortunately there is an
issue about unleashed dogs, but the walkers that I have seen doing their thing, are
very compliant, they're law-abiding, many of them gave testimonies that they
themselves needed to learn about the law, they themselves were issued citations,
they paid their citations, they understood they made a mistake, and they went
about doing what was responsible for almost 18 months. So, one of the things that
you are concerned with is maintenance and not being able to maintain it. From
what I've seen, many walkers, joggers, people with their dogs have really, really,
really cleaned up the area. So as far as maintenance concerns, I believe that that
path is one of the cleanest areas on the island of Kauai because it's so well traveled
and people are concerned and they pick up a lot of the `opala that either blows from
the cars or unfortunately are left behind, but you know, I believe that we have
picked up conservatively hundreds of additional maintenance workers that are
seriously going above and beyond with what they're asked to do. So if you do have a
chance. I know you exercise and I know just to familiarize yourself or maybe even
to talk to everybody on the path, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how
responsible and compliant and how law-abiding and above and beyond the people
are going in terms of sticking to the rules of the path or abiding and listening to the
signage and probably warning other people about where and where not. presently
is not permitted. But I really do feel that one of the bigger issues as far as safety is
concerned is the problem with those that would, excuse me, the problem with those
that would unleash their dogs and just let them run rampant.
Mr Mickens: But the enforcement mechanism is the other thing
that I have big concerns with. You've got what, four park rangers to cover this
whole island, and if there's a problem down there and like everybody goes to the
lifeguard first, you know, whether it's a sting by a fish or what it happens to be.
The lifeguard's the guy on the spot. Sure, he'd probably pick the phone up and try
and get a hold of a park ranger, but if Mr Martin happens to be up in Hanalei or
something, to get down here it's going to take him an hour By that time, you know,
COUNCIL MEETING -36- May 12, 2010
hey But everything falls on these safety guys and basically, Dickie, all I'm looking
at is the hierarchy, the workers, the mayor, the parks director and stuff. These
guys are opposed to this. animals, dogs on the path and all I'm saying is I basically
support what they do. I have no qualms with what you're saying about, you know,
the responsible people with dogs on leashes and stuff are going to be responsible.
It's the irresponsible and one. one lawsuit against this county, somebody gets bit, a
million-dollar lawsuit or something, you know, I think that's a big concern to the
taxpayers on the island for the sake of somebody having to walk their dog on that
path.
Mr Chang: And obviously it's a huge concern for all of us here
including the, you know, the administration, the taxpayers, and this council. Do
you have any knowledge as to if any suits or anyone filed anything against the
county recently?
Mr Mickens: No, outside of, you know, what Kaipo just read
from Norm, the guy who got bit, I presume he didn't have a lawsuit. It doesn't
mean he can't turn around and finally go ahead and sue us. But again remember
that again the big point here is there is no dogs, no animals allowed in parks.
That's by ordinance now until this ordinance is changed they still can't be. So, the
people are restricted to how many are going to be there. Once you open the gates
and let these animals all walk on this thing, now I'm saying it's going to really open
the gate for possible, not maybe, but possible lawsuits to happen with more dogs on
the path, whether they're older people or kids or whoever happens to be on this
path. For this path to be multi-use, it's going to. I think it's going create problems.
Anyway, you're going to find kids roller boarding, skating and stuff on that path
down there.
Mr Chang: Okay, and I appreciate that and I again want to
just say it again that I believe that they've been very compliant, they've been law
abiding, they've been responsible because I know the dog owners probably know
their dogs better than anybody else. They know their temperament. They know if
and when they should be walking in public. They know if and when they should be
walking around a crowded area.
Mr Mickens: Right.
Mr Chang: And just as a little FYI and somebody can correct
me if I'm not right, since 1996, fourteen and a half years ago, there's never been an
incident that was reported or never been a lawsuit that came to the attention of the
county that we needed to address. So, maybe public education, maybe somebody
didn't step forward, but for the most part, as the population grows and more dog
owners are. become pet owners, it seems as though it's remained in check because I
do a lot of walking and unfortunately I don't live on the bike path side, but in and
around the area here within the industrial area or within the residential areas that
are county properties, you know, people also do walk their dogs. So anywhere on
the island and I guess that's why a lot of people feel safe about being able to walk on
the path as such because they feel that they're with, again, responsible people, a
nice clean wholesome setting that's a shared-use multi-path for everybody to enjoy
Mr Mickens: With that caveat again that animals at this stage of
the game are not permitted in parks. That will restrict any incidents from
happening, right?
Mr Chang: Can you. I'm sorry, can you repeat that again?
COUNCIL MEETING -37- May 12, 2010
Mr Mickens: The restriction at this stage of the game that
animals are not permitted in parks, county or state parks, that restricts incidents
from happening. In other words, if you op. give them the green light to people to
bring their animals, dogs or whatever into the parks, that's going to open the gates
for more incidents to happen. Like you said, nobody has reported, that doesn't
mean they haven't been bitten. Maybe they didn't want to have a lawsuit. But it
doesn't mean that the incidents haven't happened. But because of the restriction of
people not being there, if they had a dog there they're going to get arrested, they're
going to get a ticket for it.
Mr Chang: Okay, but we're talking not about the parks, we're
talking about the path.
Mr Mickens: Yeah, well the path goes through parks.
Mr Chang: I'm sorry
Mr Mickens: The path goes through parks, whether it's Lihi,
that's the boat ramp, I think that's a state park, isn't it?
Mr Chang: Yes, but you. but you would be walking your dogs
on the path.
Mr Mickens: Right.
Mr Chang: You got 6 feet going this way, 6 feet going this way
Mr Mickens: Right.
Mr Chang: Which is why again I had an amendment last week
because I was concerned because many picnic tables, many luaus or tents are right
up against the sidewalk.
Mr Mickens: Yes.
Mr Chang: And the only thing that I could say again, and I'd
be happy to go with you, I know you like to exercise I'll go with you, we can talk
story, but I'd like to walk the path with you to asses and talk to people.
Mr Mickens: Love to.
Mr Chang: I think you'd feel a lot more.
Mr Mickens: Right.
Mr Chang: Yeah, okay Thank you, Glenn.
Mr Mickens: Thank you, Dickie.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Is there anyone else? Dr Rhoades.
BECKY RHOADES, Director of the Kauai Humane Society Aloha and good
morning. You know as our one of our duties or work here on Kauai is to provide
the county's animal care and management services and those include the leash law
enforcement as well as investigations of all dangerous dog reports. We have an
MOU with Kauai Police Department and they may be first responder, but all the
COUNCIL MEETING -38- May 12, 2010
cases are turned over to us to investigate the dogs that are biting or being
aggressive towards people on the island. It's key that people report problem, bad
dog owners. I'm just going to call it that, okay None of us want bad dog owners
and I think that. what I propose is going to happen which we have already seen
happen in the 18-month trial period on the 2-mile stretch of the path is good dog
owners turning in bad dog owners, okay That's what we've seen happen and we've
seen better enforcement. I don't care how much.. there's no way we can have
enough enforcement people on this island for drunk drivers, for speeders, for dogs
off leash, for not picking up poop, for all kinds of things. There's just no way The
key is the community awareness and the community working to help protect our
community Just as the incident that was described by the water safety folks, it
should have been reported, and if it's reported, then we can do something. I propose
just like Mothers Against Drunk Driving that we are good dog owners against bad
dog owners and we're going to see better activity on this path and a better model of
dog stewardship by opening up the path, limited to just the path for responsible dog
walking. That message is getting made clearer than ever before. We have bad dog
owners. We have some, we do, just like we have bad people. The key is reporting.
The key is enforcement, education and letting people know the rules, and I firmly
believe that this area will be better than its ever been before for loose dog problems,
any dog bite issues, aggressive dogs, all of that by passing this ordinance and I
strongly urge you to pass the ordinance. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any go ahead, Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Mr Kaneshiro. Thank you, Chair So you're pretty confident that
in an area where Norman talked about almost upwards of a thousand or more and I
even heard two thousand people on any given day and an area up to thousand
something or whatever, that you're pretty comfortable that we won't see any kind of
incidents like this happening, where dog bite would occur with that amount of
people? No, I'm just saying that in this particular (inaudible)
Dr Rhoades. I think we have a very dog loving community, you
know, 47% of our households have a dog, and we have very
Mr Kaneshiro: I have.
Dr Rhoades: We have very few problems when you look at that
number of dogs on Kauai. I can't say there's not going to be an incident, okay
Mr Kaneshiro. Yeah.
Dr Rhoades: I can't say that.
Mr Kaneshiro: Yeah, I know
Dr Rhoades: I can tell you that we've had five, seven hundred
people in an acre park with two hundred dogs at a time. We just did a dog walk
with 200 people and half of them had dogs. We didn't have any incidents. It's about
being responsible and it's about demanding that.
Mr Kaneshiro. And I. yeah, and I understand that, but in certain
areas where you have a concentration of people, you know, that's the problem I've
been having, as you know, you know, through all my discussions. It wasn't about
COUNCIL MEETING -39- May 12, 2010
dogs on the path at all, which I have no problem, but it's just that there's certain
places where, you know, when I was quite amazed when Norman brought up the
number of about a thousand people.
Dr Rhoades: You know in some situations where people have big
events, we hire secur you know, we hire people to assist us with managing large
crowds. I don't want ever to have that to happen, but we've had to do that for some
of events is to help have security to manage issues that may come up I don't
know
Mr Kaneshiro: And not only that too because on the weekends
probably where it is currently right now, you have the soccer players all out there,
you have kids out at the soccer fields, then you have the Kamalani campgrounds
and the playground and so forth, so.
Dr Rhoades: I think we have to. I think we have talked that
signage will be key Again, awareness and letting people know who to call and who
to call is the Kauai Police Department dispatch, that's who to call. And we work
with them every day It's. it's. you have an incident of an issue whether it be
related to a dog or a person or a car or a truck or whatever, you call and you'll get a
good response. There's just no way we can have enough enforcement for anything to
prevent everything from happening. The key is response time. The key is
education, and I do propose this similar type of situation like MADD, Mothers
Against Drunk Drivers, I think that's what we're creating and that's something we
can promote
Mr Kaneshiro: And. and. you know, I'm glad you said that that
there's no way that we can predict something like that from not happening because
I can tell you, you know, I've own dogs all my life, as you know, and you know, I
think my dogs are really mellow too, they're real nice and I always say, yeah, go
ahead you can touch `em, you can touch `em, and sometimes, you can touch `em but
he might snap, so.
Dr Rhoades: Yup
Mr Kaneshiro- You know what I'm saying. So it's just the
experience, so me being a dog owner that I see and this is why it's been really hard
for
Dr Rhoades: I appreciate it.
Mr Kaneshiro for me on my part too. okay Thank you.
Dr Rhoades: That's our world. that's our world. We deal with
them and it's about making better island dogs and better island dog families.
Mr Kaneshiro• I absolutely agree. Thank you.
Dr Rhoades: You're welcome.
Chair Asing: Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. Hello
Dr Rhoades: Hello
COUNCIL MEETING -40- May 12, 2010
Mr Bynum. So, we currently have an MOU between the
Humane Society and the county?
Dr Rhoades: Kauai Police Department.
Mr Bynum. Kauai Police Department.
Dr Rhoades: Yes.
Mr Bynum. So it's, you know, it's an expectation that any dog
bite gets reported and investigated.
Dr Rhoades: Well, fortunately on Kauai, not all the other
islands have this, but if anybody seeks medical attention for a dog bite, it's
mandatory to have it reported to the Kauai Police Department.
Mr Bynum. And so I hear your testimony that you think that
allowing responsible dog walking in an area actually improves the safety of that
area.
Dr Rhoades: Yes.
Mr Bynum. And that frankly was a surprise to me. It's not
something I expected, but I heard that overwhelmingly from the people who came
and testified that. and that was a big surprise to me. I feel safer on the path than I
do in my own neighborhood because I know that. you know, and so you're talking
about community norms, I think our community norms are changing. I know they
are. You know, when the parks department did a presentation here, they showed a
picture of somebody at Hanalei, way far away from the path, you know, who ran,
put their dog on a leash, and escaped enforcement. I think we all know that
three years ago they wouldn't have even worried if somebody came into the park
because enforcement wasn't occurring and so those new community norms, I think,
are a very positive thing that has come from this whole discussion and debate, and I
appreciate the Humane Society helping with our park rangers, which we're
fortunate to know that we're down two, we're going to hire those soon they just told
us during budget.
Dr Rhoades: We work with them every day
Mr Bynum. And so, thank you for your testimony
Dr Rhoades: You're welcome
Chair Asing: Thank you, any other questions? Councilmember
Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you. So, you're. you're our assigned
dangerous dog enforcement agency
Dr Rhoades: Yes.
Ms. Kawahara. So, I mean, obviously we have mechanisms that
deal with any situations or incidents that come up with dogs on a county level.
Dr Rhoads: Right, if a dog bite's reported, we actually meet
with the owner, we look at the dog, examine the dog, we investigate the case, meet
COUNCIL MEETING -41- May 12, 2010
with witnesses, and we may take the dog immediately for pro. into protective
custody to provide public safety until we can establish anything else. It may wait
till the trial because there is a citation issued or that it may wait for the owner to
build a child-proof escape-proof kennel that the dog can be kept in. But we do the
investigation in partnership with Kauai Police Department for the dangerous dog
cases.
Ms. Kawahara. And the person.. the owner of the dog is the one
that is the responsible person that we actually prosecute.
Dr Rhoades: The owner or the agent, meaning who had control
of the dog at the time of the bite, who is responsible.
Ms. Kawahara. Okay, okay, thank you.
Dr. Rhoades: You're welcome.
Chair Asing: Any other questions for Dr Rhoades? Dr Rhoades,
thank you.
Dr Rhoades: Thank you all and just on the side..
Chair Asing: I have one question, doctor Would you agree that
if there are areas that are crowded, I'm going to use crowded as up to a thousand
people a day even if you take the entire day, I would consider that fairly crowded in
an area like Lydgate because it is not that big an area, would it not be wiser in that
kind of situation not to have dogs in those areas because of the possibility of people
maybe not securing their dogs or possible dog bites? Would you agree to that?
Dr Rhoades: I say that. my experience here on Kauai is that
path. the 2-mile section where we've had dogs allowed for the past 18 months,
we've had some big crowds and we've had dogs on leashes, we've had children, we've
had elderly, we've had all kinds of folks and we haven't had an incident. The key is
the leash. That is the key, and I would say that as long as the dog is. the dog
owner is complying with the laws and the rules we've created, it minimizes any risk.
Chair Asing: You know when.. when you say we've had the trial
for an 18-month period and we haven't had any incidences, could it be perhaps it
was not reported and.
Dr Rhoades: Sure, I mean.
Chair Asing: possibly?
Dr Rhoades: It might have been.
Chair Asing: Yes, as a matter of fact, the report that was just
made today was not reported. It was only reported because someone asked the
question what happened and why, and that was why the report was made. Other
than that, the report would not have been made and for your information, there is
another report that is forthcoming, I believe it will be coming from the county
attorney's office, of a dog incident in an area, I believe, that dogs are allowed. So,
1. you know, want to kind of let you know that perhaps these people just don't
report and these two instances that are now being reported were really not reported
incidents. So I want to let you know
COUNCIL MEETING -42- May 12, 2010
Dr Rhoades: You know, stuff happens and dust. 1, you know,
just as I explained to the chief, you know, we had a case of a lifeguard who took his
pit-bull to work with him, let it go and it bit on the beach. We have issues. We
have stupid dog owners. We have irresponsible people just like we have
irresponsible drivers and irresponsible everything else. The key is reporting. The
key is good dog owners helping us just like the commu. helping us protect our
community and that's what I feel is really key with this whole issue since it started
is we didn't have any enforcement before really That cane haul road, you could do
whatever you wanted on it. This is the key to helping protect our community more
and provide better public safety That's my opinion and this is my position on
allowing responsible dog walking on the path.
Chair Asing: Okay, I guess one last question. Would you be in
favor of some areas for dogs and their walkers and some areas for people who are
afraid of dogs and people who got bitten? Would you be in favor of something like
that, one area for people who are afraid and all the dog walkers have an area and
the parks division as an example like the Lydgate area, you know, for the park
users? Would that be a fair way to treat everyone, the entire community gets a part
of the. to use a part of the path? Would you not say that is fair for everybody?
Dr Rhoades: I think that it's really difficult when you start
separating out dog zones, no dog zones, this is a dog zone, that's a dog zone. The
key is being polite, good etiquette. The path is plenty wide enough for people to be
able to bike and walk by each other just like walking down the street in your
neighborhood. If you're walking down the street, there's a dog, you might choose to
go to the other side. It's the same kind of thing and that's where I feel that it's. it's
important to promote good dog ownership, promote the rules. I think there's plenty
of room for people to all share the path. That's. that's my opinion.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
Dr Rhoades: You're welcome
Chair Asing: I appreciate that.
Dr Rhoades: You're welcome.
Chair Asing: Okay, any other question? Councilmember Chang.
Mr Chang: Dr Becky, through your newsletter and through
your networking with those that, you know, the active dog walkers, if you were to
put out a news..1 don't know how you do it quarterly or what have you, how
effective would it be to say to the people, look we're in this together, we want to
compromise, but there are places of concern. The sports complex, Kamalani Bridge
area, do you feel that the majority of the dog owners will abide by perhaps some
recommendations that this might not be the ideal time to walk the dog because
there may be a high concentration of picnickers or families or youngsters? I mean,
is. would that be one of the things you feel that you could convey to the owners to
say that?
Dr Rhoades: Sure, I mean, I think that the key is being a good
dog steward, managing your dog no matter where you are when you have a dog on a
leash and to manage that dog to prevent problems, and I think we've seen that and
we will see more of it. We can sure message that, you know, don't go out on
weekends when there's soccer tournaments or whatever, but the key is if they do go
out is that they comply with the. they comply, and I don't feel there will be. it
COUNCIL MEETING -43- May 12, 2010
minimizes the risk when they comply with the 6-foot leash and they manage their
dog when they're walking and they're polite. And we've been talking to Kauai Path
about good etiquette and defining what is that good etiquette and promoting that.
Mr Chang: Because. because you know, the path is very big;
it's a large wide open path and if people want a little bit more of a serenity or more
privacy, obviously, you now have the option of going up to Kuna Bay And I think a
lot of the dog owners understand that there's a difference when you get up to Kuna
Bay When you have an opportunity if you go to Kealia, the northern restroom
comfort station, that is where you have the split between the white asphalt and the
black pavement.
Dr Rhoades: Right.
Mr Chang: So if you did this on the white side, you did this on
the.
Mr Furfaro: It's the other way around.
Mr Chang: No, the white is on the Kealia side, the south side,
the concrete and the black is going up north. I'm sorry if I confused you. But if you
put your hand on this side and you put your hand on this side, especially at this
time of the day, that's going to be 15-20 degrees hotter The dogs are closer to the
ground. You make up your mind whether you want to go there, what time. But it
just seems it's very open. Because the reason being is that when the good
responsible dog owners gotta squeal on the bad dog owners, you know, most local
style, you know, you don't ring the bell as Councilmember Kawakami said you don't
toot horn, and you know, I don't want to say in fear of retaliation, but that's just not
the way that you're going to pick up the phone and kind of. so it's more like you
have to ho`oponopono and try to do it with tact. But it's an education process, so
that's why I was saying one of the ways could be through a newsletter or through
your network of people that there are times and places that, you know, it's so wide
open and large that there are obviously better, smoother transitional areas to be at.
Thank you.
Dr Rhoades: Great, you're welcome
Ms. Kawahara. I have a question.
Chair Asing: Yes, go ahead, Councilmember Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate what
you're saying and I agree with you. It's. it's good dog owners. responsible dog
owners taking responsibility for being able to u. walk their dogs where they want
to and also the education that it gives and provides for the whole community in a
raised expectation of behavior So, if by disallowing dogs, would it be kind of
creating a kind of bad cycle where you wouldn't have a place to take dogs, you never
have an opportunity to exercise them appropriately or train them in social skills
and then people don't learn how to manage their dog and then the dogs behave
badly?
Dr Rhoades: Well, I think what we're. what we're trying to do
is.
Ms. Kawahara. If you disallowed.
COUNCIL MEETING -44- May 12, 2010
Dr Rhoades: Yeah, I don't think that's the right way to go. You
know, the number one biting dog is the dog on the tether, lives on the tether, lives
in the cage. What we want to do is promote more dogs, more social dogs, and we
spend a lot of time at the Humane Society promoting that and training and
doing. teaching people, and we will continue to do and hope to do more messaging
on that, but it is the way to make better dogs on the island and better dog people.
Ms. Kawahara. Okay, thank you.
Dr Rhoades: You're welcome.
Chair Asing: Any other questions? If not, thank you, doctor
Dr Rhoades: Thank you all very much.
Chair Asing: Is there anyone else who wants to speak on this
item? Mr Rosa.
JOE ROSA. It's noontime already, so good afternoon members
of the council.
Ms. Kawahara. Good afternoon, Mr Rosa.
Mr Rosa. Good afternoon. Basically here before me I have
this booklet on a survey that was taken from December 2008 until March 31. The
figures that I see here need to be looked into before anything is done about this so-
called dogs on the pathway For the period of December 2008 until March 10, I see
there were 28,187 walkers compared to 2,804 plus the bicyclists and the joggers,
with dogs came up to 3,000 plus. So, where's the justification that the dog owners
are taking a great percentage making use of that path? In fact the last couple of
months, there was a low in March of 2010 of 43 walkers with dogs, and it's been
going down one, two, three, four months. It's showing that this is going to be
another white elephant. Here on Kauai everything.. when the broom is here it
sweeps (inaudible) You take the highway adoption, same thing. When I was
working we had people coming on Saturdays, oh, picking up rubbish, getting a shirt,
getting a plate box lunch, well, they're all there, but look now I don't see the signs
on the highway where the people used to adopt it. This is going to be the same
principle. (Inaudible) getting to be dogs, bicyclists, when you're walking, there's
this traffic jam. There's no enforcement.
You know, they talk about safety, but safety is something you look ahead and
prevent it from happening, not an after-the-fact thing. The fact is last week's
testifier said he's a cyclist, but he's says he encountered (inaudible) a case where he
got into an accident. This path started out as a way, a sort of transportation in that
resolution that I have and I told Tim Bynum last week, this is not the way it is. The
dogs are coming in the picture, and today it seems that they value animal life over
human life. A dog don't belong I'd like to say like Dickie Chang I'm going to quote
what you say about bikes in the parks. There's no reports from way back because
no animals and dogs were allowed in parks, so how where you going to get
reports? So that was carried out.
Mr Nakamura. Three minutes, Mr Chair
Mr Rosa. Think about those things. We prevent accidents
from happening before it happens, not after the fact where you get sued.
COUNCIL MEETING .45- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: (Inaudible) three minutes are up Joe, I'll let
you. the last three minutes.
Mr Rosa. Well I got. take my other three because almost
lunch already, you guys going caption break and all that, so I want to finish up
Like I see over here, the dog bite reported by the parks just recently by the previous
speakers, you know, it's something like as I say, it happened but in this report I
don't see if they had any other previous attacks by dogs on victims on the path
there. A walker, as I say I mentioned about it, he said it's getting too crowded and
there. the dog owners sometimes they don't stop for the cyclists, whatever, so
Where's the rules? Who has the right-of-way? What's the speed limit on the path
for the bicyclist? Some of them they said they doing faster than 15 miles an hour
Those are the kind of things that before anything else, you're supposed set your
rules or guidelines on that pathway, not until after-the-fact something happens and
the liability of damage suits come in. That's why as I said that an ounce of
prevention now prevents a pound of damages in liquidation and suits and whatnot.
So, I'm not really totally against it, but like as I said, the intent of this here,
according to the resolution that was drawn up by Mr Tim Bynum and also with
Ron Kouchi was strictly for a sort of transportation, but it's turned into a multiple
path of various things, dogs, cyclists, joggers, and even like as I say Mr Tim
Bynum, you come with your you say you ride a bicycle, but I still see your bicycle
sometime in the back of your pick-up truck. You're not riding it from Wailua
Homesteads to come to work, but I doubt if it ever will, even though you put the
bike path from Wailua to Lihu`e here because this is not a metropolis area and the
towns are too far in-between for cyclists to use it. And also like I heard Becky
Rhoades say here that the bike path is wide enough for people to be together and
also like it is in the neighborhoods. So why don't they use the neighborhoods? Up
in my place people walk with dogs, night and day they come around walking with
dogs. So, it's all possible. Don't blame something that. it can be done safely in the
neighborhood because the dogs have its place. To me it's safer in the neighborhood if
you walk because you don't speed in the neighborhood because speed limits in the
neighborhood is 15 miles. So, who's been driving more than 15 miles? Like they
say enforcement. Think about it. A lot of that is hot air (inaudible) coming out
here, they say oh, they can't do it in my neighborhood. Maybe at Kawaihau Road,
yeah, but there's other subdivisions that they don't drive more than the speed limit
of 35 miles. Residential is 15 miles or the minimum may be 15 or 25 So those are
the kind of things you look at it. This thing that they cannot walk their dogs in the
neighborhood is a lot of hot air like as I say
Mr Nakamura. Six minutes, Mr Chair
Mr Rosa. . because they can walk their dogs because speed
limit 15 miles per hour in subdivision residential.
Chair Asing: Joe. yeah, are you through?
Mr Rosa. Think about it. What I have to say is.
Chair Asing: You wrap up (inaudible)
Mr Rosa. things of principle that can happen and you don't
want it happen before it happens. So do something about it.
Chair Asing: Thank you, thank you.
Mr Rosa. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING -46- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: Any questions for Joe? Yes, Councilmember
Furfaro.
Mr Furfaro: Thank you. Joe, you are correct that. and I think
everybody should realize that that walking a leashed dog in a subdivision is a
approved now
Mr Rosa. Yeah.
Mr Furfaro• Okay
Mr Rosa. It has been all along, Jay, from as far as I know
because.
Mr Furfaro: I understand that, Joe, I just want to kind of go
through this, so we're very clear You are allowed to walk your dog in your
neighborhood on a leash. But you are not allowed the benefit of the open space in
any community park. Signage restricts dogs in parks.
Mr Rosa. That's right. That's why as I say it's been
(inaudible)
Mr Furfaro: We're in agreement, Joe, we're in agreement. I
want to read this. The trial evaluation - this was a bill introduced by Mr Bynum,
it was signed off by myself as the presiding officer and chairman, it passed on a trial
period on a 5-2 vote. The trial period addresses the following: The purpose is to
provide a safe and enjoyable recreation experience to dog owners, handlers and
their dogs while not adversely impacting other park visitors in a way that is
functionally maintainable. A committee of stakeholders shall be established by the
director of parks and recreation and shall include but not be limited to the Kauai
Humane Society, Department of Parks & Recreational Advisory Committee,
relevant unions and others. An evaluation period shall be established by the
committee of stakeholders providing ample time for consideration of the outcome
prior to the end of the 18-month period. That report you read from is the outcome
And the outcome basically indicated that there was a lot of mutual respect that
occurred for the animal owners and I think I just want to say in community
building, there is the need to have this time to build relationships and for each
person participating to intimately care for the other one's requirements in a most
respectful way The intent of that report was only dependent on the fact that there
seemed to be what I heard at least mutual respect from bikers, dog owners walking
their dogs as well as joggers, and so forth. There wasn't any major issues about
those conflicts between those groups in that report. Now, you can interpret
numbers and say yeah, there was 6,000 of this, 28,000 walkers, the ratio was only
1.4 on the dog owners and so, but what I'm trying to share with you is if we allow
from Kuna Bay all the way to Lydgate or to Wailua Bridge, that now makes 6.2
miles of walkable area (inaudible).
The issue I think we're discussing now is not so much the performance that
was relatively good between all stakeholders on that path, but the question is how
do we deal with the current prohibition on parks and in particular Lydgate. That
was my concern from the beginning and it still is my concern. But that report is
only reporting the issues on the path and it seemed to be relatively a good
relationship. We never had in this piece, which is referred to the trial period, we
didn't have a trial period in Lydgate, you know We had a trial period for the part
of the parks that are there, it was relatively good. If we open up all that area up to
COUNCIL MEETING -47- May 12, 2010
Lydgate, it gives dog walkers 6.2 miles. It gives them areas to park along. whether
it's the pool and so forth. But I think I don't want to mix the two or loosely
interpret the report that has been given by the parks department on what their
finding is. I think unleashed dogs is a separate issue and there needs to be
enforcement, but we're all going through very difficult times financially You may
have not seen it, but we reinstated lifeguards at $171,000 for the purpose of
being. preventing life safety issues from the water, not to police the animals. We
added money in dispatch and in the jail block in the police budget so that people
could make certain they received a dispatcher if in fact there was an issue. But I
don't. I don't want to necessarily, you know, mix the two. There are responsible
dog owners that that report reflects seems to have done well. Nothing in there
really references the outcomes in the park that the lifeguards spoke to us today
because currently right now those dogs aren't allowed, you know, and it's not.
Mr Rosa. No, it's been on for years, over 50 years.
Mr Furfaro• And it's not. it's not for the lifeguards to be
enforcing that. So, just. I just want to make clear, to me the issue is the net
outcome of the survey and in Mr Chang's amendment, are we prepared to lift the
prohibition along the park or into the campgrounds or anything and I don't. I don't
believe we are.
Mr Rosa. I don't think so either
Mr Furfaro: I don't believe we are and I just wanted to make
sure I clear this with you. And also, I'm not sure we really understand where the
path is going within the golf complex to be able to give that green light. That's what
I wanted to hear about. I think the survey was presented to us factual from the
parks and recreation department, and we have to.
Mr Rosa. And whatever staff committees that you had. They
had various committees that made the survey
Mr Furfaro: That's all I have to say Thank you.
Chair Asing: Okay, thank you, Joe, appreciate it. Thank you,
Joe
Mr Rosa. So, but.
Mr Furfaro: No more questions are being asked, Joe.
Chair Asing: No more questions, Joe.
Mr Furfaro: And your time has expired.
Mr. Rosa. I know it has, but, you know, that's the thing I
want to say too. People ask for public comments.
Chair Asing: Joe, Joe, let's follow the rules. Joe.
Mr Rosa. No, no, yeah, wait. This is.
Chair Asing: Joe, don't let me do it. Please follow the rules.
Let's be fair to everyone.
COUNCIL MEETING -48- May 12, 2010
Mr Rosa. Well, like people tell me.
Chair Asing: Thank you, Joe, thank you, Joe.
Mr Rosa. They don't want to hear me because I speak the
truth.
Chair Asing: Thank you, Joe. Is there anyone else who'd like to
speak? We're going to take one more speaker and then we're going to break for
lunch. Yes, go ahead.
MARCIA McPHAIL. Very quickly, councilmembers.
Chair Asing: Excuse me.
Ms. McPhail. I'm sorry
Chair Asing: The gentleman I was going to recognize. stay right
there, stay right there because I'm just going to say this. I'm going to recognize you
and I'm going to recognize the speaker behind you and then we're going to take a
break for lunch.
Ms. McPhail: Very good and I just want to be very brief. And I
just want to thank you for all your time and. to listen to all of our testimony I
really appreciate it and I really just want to see this ordinance go through and give
us people who are responsible, we'll watch other dog owners, we'll make you proud.
Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
Mr Furfaro: May I ask her a question.
Chair Asing: Yes, go ahead, I'm sorry
Mr Furfaro: State your name and (inaudible).
Chair Asing: I'm sorry, for the record.
Ms. McPhail. I'm sorry, but I'm very nervous. My name is
Marcia McPhail.
Mr Furfaro: Hi Marcia, thank you for your testimony
Ms. McPhail. Thank you, Councilman Furfaro.
Mr Furfaro: Let me ask. as I just explained the area from
Kuna all the way to Lydgate, but if we maintain the prohibition on dogs in the
parks in that area, campgrounds, Lydgate Pavilion, down by the bridge, would you
find that acceptable?
Ms. McPhail. I would honestly find that acceptable. I will not use
that area. When you talk about densities that high, I just wouldn't even take the
chance. I love my dog and I really appreciate being able to take her on the path in
areas that I'm also comfortable with and like Councilman Chang was saying, we'll
police our own and make note of where we should and shouldn't be, but like I said I
wouldn't have a problem with that, Councilman Furfaro.
COUNCIL MEETING -49- May 12, 2010
Mr Furfaro: Thank you very much.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
BLAKE RAFAEL. For the record my name is Blake Rafael. I work at
Lydgate as a park caretaker
Chair Asing: You want to pull the mike up to you, please.
Mr Rafael: I work at Lydgate as a park caretaker I know
everybody's hungry right now, so I'll make this short and sweet. Every time I weed
wack I get a face full dog feces, so what about my health? That's all I got to say
Chair Asing: You want to repeat that again now, I.
Mr Rafael. Every time I weed wack the park, I get a face full of
dog feces, so what about my health. That's all I got to say
Chair Asing: Hang on. Councilmember Furfaro.
Mr Furfaro. I just want to make sure you heard what I said
earlier My comment was about prohibiting, not allowing dogs in the Lydgate area.
Mr Rafael. Oh, prohibiting.
Mr Furfaro: Prohibiting.
Mr Rafael. That's what I meant.
Mr Furfaro: Okay
Mr Rafael. Because I get a face of dog feces when I weed wack.
That's what I meant.
Mr Furfaro• Understood.
Mr Rafael: Yeah.
Mr Furfaro Thank you, Mr Chair
Chair Asing: Yes, I. how and it's going to be difficult, but you
try to answer it as best as you can, how often do you weed wack and run into this
condition of doing weed wacking and having the doo-doo fly on you or someplace
else?
Mr Rafael. At least two times a week, around there because I
also have to line the soccer field, yeah. Me and my co-workers line the soccer field.
Chair Asing: It's nearly every time you spend a day weed
wacking that you will in fact find that you'll be faced with that problem?
Mr Rafael. Yeah.
Chair Asing: And that has occurred.
COUNCIL MEETING -50- May 12, 2010
Mr Rafael. On a weekly basis, yeah.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
Mr Rafael. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Any other questions, councilmembers? Yes, hang
on. Councilmember Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Just. I wanted to thank you for coming up and the
dogs aren't allowed in there right now, right? So we don't have any resp. we don't
have people walking their dogs through there legally, yeah, at your area where you
work.
Mr Rafael. Just today I got a map from John Martin.
Ms. Kawahara. What's that?
Mr Rafael. I got a map from John Martin indicating where the
dogs are allowed.
Ms. Kawahara. Okay, but right now, every you have that happen
to you even though they're not allowed there now
Mr Rafael. Yeah.
Ms. Kawahara. Okay, okay, I just wanted to check on that.
Mr Rafael. Okay
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you.
Mr Rafael. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Let me, yeah. I think that's all for you. Thank you
very much. I'd like to just make a comment to that question. And the comment
that I need to make to that question is that, you know, they're not allowed there
anyway So, if you allow them, then your problem is going to be multiplied. I just
want to clear that. If you're not allowed there, you have that problem, when we
allow dogs there, your problem is going to be multiplied. So I want you to know
that. Thank you.
Ms. Kawahara. Mr Chair
Chair Asing: We're going to take a break for lunch. We're going
to go. for all of you here, when we come back we need to go to the public hearing
first as scheduled and after that we are going to go into executive session. We have
the attorney from Honolulu and then we will continue with the bill. Thank you.
There being no objection, the meeting was recessed at 12:34 p.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 1.48 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: The council meeting is now called to order With
that, county attorney?
COUNCIL MEETING -51- May 12, 2010
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
AMY ESAKI, First Deputy County Attorney- Okay good afternoon, Amy
Esaki from the county attorney's office I'm going to request to go into Executive
Session for ES-438, 439, 440, and 441.
ES-438 Pursuant to Hawaii Revised Statutes Sections 92-4 and 92-
5(a)(4), and Kaua'i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an executive session with the Council to provide Council a
briefing, update, and to request authority for a possible settlement proposal in the
case of Coconut Beach Development LLC vs. Bryan Baptiste, et al., CV08-00036
SOM KSC (U.S. District Court, District of Hawaii) and related matters. This
briefing and consultation involves the consideration of the powers, duties,
privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate
to this agenda item.
ES-439 Pursuant to Hawai'i Revised Statutes Sections 92-4 and 92-
5(a)(4), and Kaua'i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an executive session with the Council to provide Council a
briefing in 1000 Friends of Kauai vs. County of Kauai, et al., CIV 07-1-0007 (Fifth
Circuit Court) and 1000 Friends of Kauai vs. County of Kauai, et al., SC-30348
(Intermediate Court of Appeals for the State of Hawai`i); and related matters. This
briefing and consultation involves the consideration of the powers, duties,
privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate
to this agenda item.
ES-440 Pursuant to Haw Rev Stat. §§92-4 and 92-5(a)(4), (6) and (8),
and Kauai County Charter section 3.07(E), the purpose of this executive session is
to provide the Council a briefing on Planning Department of the County of Kauai
vs. Patricia W. & Michael G. Sheehan Sr. Permit Numbers: Special Management
Area Use; Permit SMA (U) 87-8, Use Permit U-87-32; Special Permit SP-87-9; Class
IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-87-40, (Planning Commission of the County of Kauai, State
of Hawaii) and related matters. This briefing and consultation involves
consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the
Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES-441 Pursuant to Haw Rev Stat. §§92-4 and 92-5(a)(4), (6) and (8),
and Kauai County Charter section 3.07(E), the purpose of this executive session is
to provide the Council a briefing, update and to request authority for a possible
settlement proposal on County of Kauai vs. Lady Ann Cruises, Inc., et al.,
Civ No. 09-1-0165 (Fifth Circuit Court), and related matters. This briefing and
consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities
and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
Chair Asing: Thank you. With that, I'd like to call the meeting
back to order and have a motion to move into executive session.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Mr Furfaro: So moved.
Mr Chang: Second it.
Chair Asing: Excuse me, is there anyone here who wants to
speak on these items first?
COUNCIL MEETING -52- May 12, 2010
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
Chair Asing: If not, thank you. The meeting is called back to
order Motion again.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Mr Furfaro So moved to enter into executive session.
Chair Asing: Second please?
Mr Kaneshiro. Second.
Chair Asing: Any discussion? All those in favor say, aye.
Mr Furfaro moved to enter into executive session, seconded by Mr Kaneshiro, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Asing: We're going to move into executive session. When
we get through we will come back and have the dog bill on the agenda. Thank you.
The meeting was recessed at 1.51 p.m. to move into executive session.
The meeting was called back to order at 3:46 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: The meeting is now called back to order We will
continue the process on the dog bill and we will now open it up and continue
receiving testimony from the public. So is there anyone else who did not testify this
morning who wants to testify now? Alice.
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
ALICE PARKER. Okay, good afternoon, council. Alice Parker, Lihu`e.
This is regarding Bill No. 2354. Allowing dogs on the multi-use path especially
encourages our elders, kupuna, to exercise on a smooth, safe, paved area that is not
suffused with automobile exhaust fumes but with fresh ocean air As we all are
aware, the chronological age of our residents is projected to keep increasing. Better
health physically by walking and mentally/emotionally by caring for our canine
household members will decrease medical health cost to each resident and to the
insurance companies, both individual and federal such as Medicare. So, please open
the entire multi-use path to leashed, trained canines and their responsible owners.
Mahalo
Mr Bynum. Mahalo.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Is there anyone else? Mr Taylor
KEN TAYLOR. Chair and members of the commission or council,
my name is Ken Taylor You know this morning you had some testimony from the
lifeguard and I certainly don't want to belittle somebody getting bit by a dog, but
dogs off-leash are against the law and somebody. somebody is not enforcing the
law To try to relate that kind of a situation to what we're talking
COUNCIL MEETING -53- May 12, 2010
about. responsible dog owners with leashed dogs on the path is a completely
different issue and it really saddens me to think that we would try to mix the two
because that's not. that's not what it's about, and it also became apparent that our
lifeguards, I guess, need a little better training to know who to call when these
kinds of problems come up and unfortunately it wasn't. wasn't said this morning
that the training of these individuals that do a horrendous job and.. but they have
to be trained and be made aware of who they should call when these kinds of
activities take place and it was. it was obvious this morning that they called the
park department which might have been a second call in requirement, but it
became obvious in later testimony that the county has a working relationship with
the police department and the Humane Society to deal with these issues. And all of
the lifeguards should be made aware of who they call when these off-leash animals
are encountered and so I hope you'll pass that on to. to the right people, but to mix
this kind of situation is really sad. I mean it's like saying, well nobody is going to
drive any more down the highway because somebody was driving drunk. That
would be ridiculous, but that's just about the same kind of thing you're talking
about here, dogs off leash, people not taking care of their animals and following the
rules and regulations, and then trying somehow to say that's what creates the
problem and so we're not going to allow dogs on the leash. So I hope you'll separate
those two issues and move forward with approving the bill before you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to
speak on this item? Come up. Yes.
Mr Rafael. Hi, for the record my name is Blake Rafael. My
main concern is public safety I think about three or four different times I had to
bury dead chickens when the dogs attacked the chickens. I could imagine if one day
that chicken ends up to be one of my nephews playing on the playground. That's
about it. My main concern is public safety
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any questions, councilmembers?
Thank you very much. Is there anyone else here who wants to speak on this item?
If not, what I'll do is let me set the process down so that we. we can follow the
process. What I'll do is first entertain the bill to approve and then I believe there
are some amendments. So, why don't we do that first.
Mr Bynum. Move to approve.
Mr Furfaro: Second.
Mr Bynum moved to adopt Bill No. 2354, Draft 1 on second and final reading, and
that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Mr Furfaro.
Chair Asing: With that, I'm going to ask that those that want to
do amendments, I'm going to take a 5-minute recess and for those of you that want
to do amendments, let me know so that we can set the amendments in order and
who's going to do which amendment first and...
Mr Furfaro: Mr Chair, I am prepared on my amendment. If
there's others you might want to check with, if not I don't think it's necessary to
take a break.
Chair Asing: Okay
Mr Kaneshiro: I don't have any problems. I'm prepared to go.
COUNCIL MEETING -54- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: Okay With that, there is a motion on the floor to
approve and the motion to approve the bill as it was amended on the committee
level and brought up here. So basically what the bill does now, it allows dogs in the
entire path, the entire path meaning whatever is not built at this particular time
will also be included and the dogs will be able to walk. So, it is both the built and
unbuilt portion. There is one area that was amended and that is the Lydgate area.
In the original bill, the entire Lydgate area was prohibited. Under the amendment
by Councilmember Chang, it is limited to a short portion of Lydgate. Basically it is
the portion as you drive down to Lydgate Park and make that left to go to the
pavilion. It is from that point to going north and that's the portion that dogs will
not be allowed. So that is the bill as it stands now that is up for approval. And I
will entertain amendments that councilmembers have, so the first amendment that
is being proposed is by Councilmember Furfaro Would you like to make the
amendment and get us.
Mr Furfaro: Surely My amendments are ready and if the
clerk's office could pass them about.
Chair Asing: Why don't we follow the rules and you make the
motion to amend and have someone second, okay?
Mr Furfaro. I'll make a motion to amend as I have an
amendment to introduce. May I get a second.
Mr Kaneshiro. I'll second the motion.
Mr Furfaro moved to amend Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, as shown in the amendment
attached hereto (see Attachment No. 1), seconded by Mr Kaneshiro.
Mr Furfaro• Thank you very much.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
Mr Furfaro: I would like to bring our attention back to this
original purpose of the trial period that we have as I was active as the chairman of
the council at that time, and I want to make sure everybody understands. I believe,
you know, we do need to approach this from a standpoint of perhaps being mutually
aware that there are people in our community that are not as aware of dog activities
as, you know, perhaps someone like myself. I've raised dogs, I've raised a couple
Shepherds in the American Kennel Club as well. But I want to read from the
original trial period, the purpose: to provide a safe and enjoyable recreation
experience to dog owners, handlers and their dogs while not adversely impacting
other park visitors. And this was signed by me when I was the acting chair of the
council.
Now the reason I wanted to revisit that, as my amendment is being passed
out, I don't want to find us over promising and under delivering in anything that we
do here in the county So my amendment deals with a couple yet uncertain items.
For example I had written in to the county attorney's office to find out if there are
any consent issues from the state should we actually have the right-of-way over the
bridge at Wailua. Unfortunately, I did not get a response to that and I do not want
to find myself holding up this bill waiting for that response, but it is a question that
still is on my mind as to the state's consent to travel the bridge and parallel to Coco
Palms in their right-of-way I don't think we have that answer
COUNCIL MEETING -55- May 12, 2010
I also want to say that we have certain phases of the path that are in this
increment of A, B, C, and D phases, which I think will be complete, thanks to
Mr Haigh, over the next 12 months. So my amendment basically keeps Lydgate in
a prohibition state at present, but it does allow dogs shall be permitted on the
shared-use path beginning at the former Sea Shell Restaurant before we get up on
the highway through and to the north end of the Wailua Beach, extending all the
way north where towards the end of the shared path at Kuna Bay, including the
parking lots and the pathways from the trail head at Kealia Kai to the comfort
station, down to the coastal shared-use path. The county engineer shall post the
appropriate signs to designate the appropriate areas where dogs are allowed on the
shared-use path system. This totals 6.2 miles.
I would like also to point out and I will leave this if anyone wants to share, so
this includes the in-progress area of the Sea Shell Restaurant, that whole Waipouli
area, and all the way to Kuna. It is my hope that this is permanent in my
application or my amendment, I'm sorry, and it is something where it will allow us
maybe in a year and a half to revisit this, not in the sense that it's time sensitive,
but that we could just bring it up In other words, there is no termination or a trial
period that ends, but that there is a period of time in 18 months that we would
revisit this.
I do think, you know, mutual respect goes a long way The dog owners have
demonstrated that, but I do think a prohibition at Lydgate at this time would be
appropriate, and I do concur with Ken that, you know, unleashed dogs seem to
contribute to a lot of the problems we've been having. I also want to say, though, I
am actually a young man when I had a little more hair and a thinner body, I was
actually, believe it or not, a water safety instructor for water safety instructors for
the City & County of Honolulu. I am extremely concerned that we have lifeguards
that could be deterred from keeping an eye on the coastal areas, the shoreline,
especially with Lydgate, with families and so on. That's me speaking as a water
person, as a waterman. I don't want to see the guards getting in a role that they
would leave their station to police another activity, especially after getting support
yesterday or Monday from the mayor's office to reestablish the, you know, the
lifeguards without furloughs. I think water safety, an activity along the shoreline is
the best form of entertainment for families right now because in our county it costs
nothing and Lydgate is, to me, a wonderful spot.
I also want to qualify that because in my mind there is nothing that is going
to deter this council from moving on Kaipo Asing's earlier request to get an eastside
dog park and that is in addition to this piece
So, you know, I'm very sensitive. I don't know where the dog path is going to
go in the golf areas. I don't know if it's going to go along the shoreline, if it's going
to go near the road, if it. You know, I think that discussion and those approvals
should come up later But I am certainly prepared and, based on the information I
have mister from Mr Haigh's office, feeling comfortable about Kuna all the way to
the Sea Shell, 6.2 miles. I don't have an answer back on the questions regarding
the Wailua Bridge and so I will refrain from any further comments. I also want you
to know I would like you to consider my comments, but in no way do I feel that I
wouldn't support responsible dog owners as the proposal is, but I would issue some
caution that we don't over promise what we may not be able to deliver. Thank you,
that's my amendment.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any discussion? Councilmember
COUNCIL MEETING -56- May 12, 2010
Mr Kaneshiro: If I may, Mr Chair, I may have prematurely passed
an amendment out also, very similar to Mr Furfaro's amendment. The only
difference was that I can support. I will support Mr Furfaro's amendment. My
amendment actually was a little more, you know, we. what I was going to do was
really start it off on the current path system and go all the way north and just leave
the Lydgate area out. But what I see here is Mr Furfaro is proposal is starting
from the Sea Shell going all the way north and pretty much leaving the Lydgate
area out. So I'm not going to pass my amendment out just to let this body know
even though it's circulated among our members, but it just shows that we're not,
you know, we're not conspiring to say whose amendment goes because I didn't even
know he had this amendment out to the amendment I was doing. So it shows that
we're all working diligently to address some of the concerns that was brought up
today And the main concern I had is when I heard that there would be about a
thousand people on any given day, especially on the weekends, at the Lydgate Park
area and possibly later on when the campgrounds is there, the soccer field and
soccer is back in full swing, you may find upwards to maybe more than a thousand
people all congregated in a small area, and I do have some concerns about that. I
don't have any concerns about good dog owners, good handlers, walking the path on
the island no matter where. I don't have a problem with that. I'm. as all of you
know, I'm a great. I'm a dog lover, you know, I've owned dogs ever since who knows
when and it's just that there are some concerns that were brought up when we
talked in regards to parks. When you talk in regards to soccer parks, talk in
regards to campground parks, talk in regards to swimming area parks, so and, you
know, I have little concern and a typical concern like this that I know can happen
and I'm just relating to Mr Furfaro's amendment of staying away from the parks is
that. is that you can have a soccer game going on. The way the bill reads right
now, the way it's been passed, and I don't have any problems with that. I know you
get good legitimate dog handlers like that. But you can have a dog handler right
now along the path, set his chair into the park, sits down, leaves his dog sitting on
the path right now and watching the soccer game. It's not impossible with the bill
we're passing right now So these are small things that we gotta, you know, watch
out for, small things. But that.. what we're doing is that can legally hap that
happen. You know, the guy can say well sit right here and the dog can sit right
there and he could have his chair. he's in the park watching the soccer game
because there's nothing in the rules or this to say that he needs to keep walking on
the path with his dog. So, you know, and I see nothing wrong with that, but I
mean, at some point, you know, how you know the dog's going to sit there for a long
time. I mean we all expect that once in a while. So these are things that come
through my mind as a dog owner and as a dog handler So, I support this part
about, you know, about having dogs on the path as such, but in an area when we
have soccer games going on, in an area where you have a lot of children activities
going on, soccer balls being hit here and there, and I just have reservations about
that and perhaps I'm a little too cautious about it, but, you know, that's just my
opinion, so.
Chair Asing: Okay
Mr Furfaro: I just want to clarify one more comment I made.
When I referenced the 18 months revisit, I want to make sure I wasn't talking about
a sunset. I was just talking about a revisit.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Kawakami.
Mr Kawakami. Thank you, Mr Chair And just the scenario with
somebody tying their dog up and leaving `em there. we. I guess it depends on how
you interpret this provision that's in the bill. It says you have to be in command
COUNCIL MEETING -57- May 12, 2010
and control of the dog at all times, so I personally wouldn't consider somebody tying
their dog up as being in command and control. But, you know, maybe that is going
to require some kind of clarification from the enforcers out there.
Mr Kaneshiro: Well, let me clarify that. What I was specifically
stating is that he could hold the leash but be sitting down in the park, its only six
feet away or wherever, the dog can be right there on the path, but he can hold the
leash. It's not necessarily meaning he's tying the dog. What I'm saying is that he
could still hang on to the leash but the way the. the way the path goes around the
park, it adjoins the park. You're right there by the park. So you can sit in the
park. the guy can sit in the park in his chair and his umbrella and probably hold
the leash in his hand with the dog on the path, and there's nothing that we see in
the rules or this law that can prohibit that. So, you know, I mean that's going a
little bit beyond, but it can happen because I think I can do it with my dog, I know I
could, you know I know I could. And I'm just using this as an example and I just
have some concerns about that because if it can say well, you got to continue to be
walking your dog so we don't have your dog distracted by the ball being hit here or
hit there or something like that happen, it's not a problem, but we don't have that
in this bill. So that's. that's for clarification purposes.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. Thank you, Mr Chair I just want to start with
that where I'm coming from is that virtually every municipality and virtually every
one handles dogs through leash law They don't restrict dog walking in public
areas. They say you have to be in command and control, you have to carry a bag,
you have to. they give rules for dog owners. This amendment. you know, the
amendment that Mr Chang did is eliminated from this in the way this is written.
So the section that says, dogs shall be permitted on the shared-use path system
provided however, and then Mr Chang has the restriction. So it starts from the
premise that dogs are allowed and then limits that. This amendment, however,
says dogs shall be permitted on the shared. this amendment would eliminate that
whole section and then would say dogs shall be permitted on the shared-use path
beginning at the former Sea Shell Restaurant. Well, what that means is my friends
at Kaha Lani, that live at Kaha Lani, cannot walk their dog to Monicos for dinner
or they can't take them in Monicos but you can get take-out. They can't walk, you
know, to that. to those commercials. My friends who live in the Wailua River
houselots.
Mr Furfaro: You know, I have friends at Kaha Lani too and
Wailua houselots, so. It's not about friends. I just want to make sure I interject
that. I'm sorry, Tim. I've been quiet for six weeks and when you imply it's about
friends, no. It's about delivering something we can deliver in fairness to as many
people as we can, and I apologize
Mr Bynum. I don't think I was implying anything. I just was
saying I do know people at Kaha Lani that.
Mr Furfaro• Okay
Mr Bynum. that could not walk their dogs from their own
home. I know people who live in the Wailua River houselots who could not walk
their dogs, you know, so I won't be supporting this amendment because I don't think
it's necessary to do this. I did support Mr Chang's amendment because I thought
there was. it was a specific area for a specific reason. It seemed like a reasonable
compromise, but I don't think we need to get into this micromanaging of saying,
COUNCIL MEETING -58- May 12, 2010
here's. and it's a big very fundamental difference to say here's where you can than
saying here's where you can't.
And so the other point I wanted to make was. yeah, I don't think the state
highway is an issue because we allow dog walking everywhere on state highways
now, so I don't think it will make a difference whether it's along there, but that's a
reasonable question to. to look at, but I just don't. I also think that Mr Chang has
talked eloquently about my experience of human beings that they're generally
reasonable, generally probably not going to choose to go dog walking in Lydgate on
a Saturday when there's a soccer game and lots of things. they're. they're going to
make that choice. they're going to self-select that. But even if they do, I think it's
not a serious problem to have a dog walker walking through even a congested area
because we know there are many paths that have 10 times the volume that our
paths will ever have that allow dog walking. The. and that's my experience
of. and I think a good example is the Wailua corridor where we have changed
community norms. I think the good news is the norm. community norms about dog
ownership are changing. The expectations are changing. That's a very positive
thing that has come from this whole debate. But in Wailua, we came to a consensus
as a community that we were concerned about safety on the highway in Wailua and
we made a change and lowered the speed limit and my experience of driving that
twice a day is that almost everybody has changed their behavior Our new
community norm is to go slow Now occasionally there's that knucklehead that goes
weaving in and out of traffic and creates dangerous situations, and we have
enforcement and laws to deal with that, but we don't ban driving through the
Wailua corridor because there are some irresponsible people. You know, there is
some risk involved in any activity and dog walking in public with regulations is a
liberty that's enjoyed in our country and I don't know why we would restrict that
liberty here. And so I won't be supporting this. I'll be supporting the bill as written
with the. and if.
And my last comment and then I'm not going to talk about this again I don't
think would. is that, you know, Mr Chang made a strong argument about why we
should consider a restriction in this area and I supported that. As we go to future
segments of the path, if there's a compelling reason that we need to address this, we
have that opportunity, but I don't think we should set ourselves up to have to come
back and as each new segment of the path is developed, so. I appreciate that
this. there are different opinions and I've shared mine and so I'll. thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Any further discussion,
councilmembers?
Mr Furfaro: Yes, Mr Chair, and my colleagues here. Let me
first apologize for interrupting because politics is personal, you know, and there are
situations here that I am promoting that deal with us revisiting this in 18 months
and I want to make sure, not sunsetting, just revisiting it because there were some
assumes and there were some questions here that still exist in my mind. As I
stated earlier, I'm going to support this. I'm just offering some caution going
forward that, you know, we need to cross all the T's, we need to dot all the I's. I'm
not sure that we have all of that. But I also do want to ask that you try to at least
give me an opportunity to have that 6.2 miles that we know is pretty much in place
or is going to be completed in the next 12 months as the designated area and then
after that revisit it. I do think, you know, we have many good parts to this bill as I
said here, but I also said when I signed off on this training period that I wanted to
make sure that it didn't impact other park users and, you know, I'm not sure. I'm
not sure exactly what places we have in there. So. and before you respond I just
want to let you know I won't say anymore. I hope people could consider my two
COUNCIL MEETING -59- May 12, 2010
amendments, but I will be supporting the whole thing if that's not the case I think
6.2 miles of path is a pretty good token until we get the rest built and we should
revisit it.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Mr Kaneshiro: And if I may, I just wanted to add onto
Mr Furfaro's concern is that my part was about a compromise. l had thought and I
know there are people that would walk the Lydgate area feeling comfortable
without dogs on a leash currently I know of some people that do that. I know some
people will not go to the Lihi side but would go to the Wailua side or the Lydgate
Park to walk. So, it's a matter of compromising, being able to give the opportunity
for people that want to do that, we can help it. You know, even though I can stay
here and tell them how safe the dogs are, no matter how I can keep on preaching
how safe our dogs are, you know, there are some people that want to walk but just
has this phobia in them and my and if you look at Mr Furfaro's amendment,
basically we're giving those people an opportunity also to enjoy the path where, you
know, where people like that even though it might be a small percentage as there is
a small percentage using the dog path, I mean using the path with dogs, there is a
small percentage of that amount of people that have that kind of a phobia. And, you
know, with this amendment here, I'm hoping that we would allow them to be able to
do that. And I can say that because I know people that have called me and have
some concerns about that. I can't say whether it's a small percentage or not, we
haven't done any survey, the survey was done only on the 18-month period on the
specific area that we talked about. But if I can tell you if you were to go out there
today and try to do the survey or try to, you know, let's. I think the survey would
be very different. I'm just talking about the Lydgate Park area. I'm not talking
about anyplace else, you know, just that area on people that walk that areas or the
small percentage, even one or two, that makes a difference, one or two has a phobia
of that makes a difference because this path was built for everyone to enjoy
Chair Asing: Thank you, any further discussion?
Councilmember Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you, Council Chair Asing. I dust spoke with
Mr Kawakami and we agreed that we would go ahead. I would be okay to say this.
I had a wager with Mr Kawakami, Councilmember Kawakami, that there wouldn't
be any amendments because I so diligently tried to get the amendments in
when. in the last two meetings and I have to say that I owe him a lunch because
there are two amendments here after after all the discussion we had and after all
of my requests for getting them in in committee So I owe you lunch and you get to
pick where it's going to be at.
My concern. my the thing that's important to me about this is. and I'm
glad Councilmember Kaneshiro talked about it, the two different groups of people,
the people that have. that may be scared or have phobias of animals and then the
people that don't. To me, by saying that one group of people. we're going to limit
one group of people for the sake of another group of people in this sense, it. .1 think
it comes down to the quality of life, quality of life for the people with the animals is
being traded off for the people that have a quality of life without animals on the
park. on the path. L. because it's important to me and because I worry that this is
kind of like a restriction and a deprivation of a right that has been proven to be
something that is doable, something that over a year and a half has been shown
that there. that we're able to do, to me and I'm going to take this out of this book.
It's a philosophy of legislation and law "The right rule of conduct and a just civil
law command actions that ought to be performed and prohibit acts that ought not to
COUNCIL MEETING -60- May 12, 2010
be done." And that's exactly what this bill does. It says everybody can use the path
and if you have a dog, these are the things that you have to do, so it discusses it in
the positive and talks about the things that ought to be performed. And then we
also have on the other hand the laws that says these are things that ought not to be
done and those are the things ought not to be done are enforced by the dangerous
dog law, the leash law, and all the things that the Kauai Humane Society is tasked
to do for us. So, it. well, it came up in somebody's testimony that they felt as
though their quality of life was being restricted because they had a dog and that the
quality of life for the people that were scared of dogs was going to be more
important and that was my feeling is that it should be equal access for everybody
and that you. you. you legislate what ought to be done, which is what we have
done here. be in command or the control of the dog at all times, have no more than
two dogs, immediately remove the dog if it exhibits aggressive behavior, visibly
carry necessary instruments required for the removal. So there's seven items of
what ought to be done and that's what's in this law And then there's things that
prohibit acts that ought not to be done. To restrict a group that has. that I have
not seen any proof or any report that says they are not able to do the eight things or
seven things that are in the law that are being asked to be done is something
that.. that troubles me and that's why I wouldn't be able to support any limiting
beyond what we had amended earlier to where people can go because they have an
animal or not. And I'm just going to quote one more thing, if I can because I want to
be sure to get it in, this is Aristotle: "The virtuous does freely what the criminal
does only from fear of the law, fear of its coercive force and of the punishment that
may result from violating the law The criminal, however, does not suffer any loss
of liberty when he breaks the law " He doesn't lose any liberties because he's
breaking the law and doing something that he shouldn't be doing. When you. and
then I'm going to finish this. " refrains from breaking the law for what he wishes
to do. Being unlawful and unjust is something he ought not to do anyway even if he
were not constrained by the law His license to do as he wishes, not his liberty, has
been taken away " But if you do it vice versa and these people are following the
law, to me you are taking away a liberty for something that they have worked on
and have proven and have shown that good people will do. So I thank you for that
time and I hope my fellow councilmembers understand that I just have a different
view of coming out with the legislation. Thank you.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Mr Kaneshiro: You know, as part of the procedural process, if you
notice as we conducted the meeting through committee meetings, I didn't make any
amendments because I knew I wouldn't get a second on my amendment and
therefore, that would have left me out the opportunity to be able to present what I
wanted to present today And part of the reason is simple. I mean, you know, as
the chair said. as. well, she. as Councilmember Kawahara previously stated, you
know, if I had put out probably an amendment like this at all or even. I probably
wouldn't have a second at all because we've already had something on the table
which is dogs throughout the whole path. So, it's just a procedural move and
therefore, when I voted no on the amendment, it was because I had my
amendments that I wanted to bring up here to the full council and I don't like doing
amendments in the full council to tell you the truth. In all my years I've been on
the council, I don't like to do it. But if I had any indications that I would have a
second so we could have some discussion purposes, fine, but I know how to count. I
know the numbers. There's only a couple of us on the committee and it's easy to
count, and I, you know, and like I said I don't like to do it here on the council, but at
the same time, you know, I respect what the rest of the committee did. I. you
know, I can move on and I mean we can move on and I would call. tell the Chair we
COUNCIL MEETING -61- May 12, 2010
should call for the vote, take the vote, and let's move on, you know I've made my
point and I feel good about making my point and I'm ready to move on if the
amendment passes or not.
Chair Asing: Councilmember Chang first, and then
Councilmember Furfaro.
Mr Chang: Thank you, Chair First of all, Chair Asing, I want
to thank you for bringing up a lot of really important points this morning and I
want to thank Councilmember Kaneshiro and Councilmember Furfaro for
introducing these amendments. One of the things that I became aware of is I
believe I. I didn't really think about the population moving south toward Kamalani
Kai Bridge and I acknowledge that I didn't really pass the times that there were
soccer games going on, so don't. that is a consideration for me to be concerned
about that population base with everyone going on. But I do want to quote from our
April 21st meeting of our minutes and what I mentioned to everyone is my concern
and I quote "is quite honestly about the various places on connectivity, in other
words, there are parts of the path that is obviously planned but not built presently
So there are people in the wildlife, conservationists, I mean the people that have
concerns within the secluded areas of Nawiliwili, the backside of Hanama'ulu,
which many of us are not aware of what even the backside of Hanama'ulu looks
like." So consequently we needed to get community members of Lihu`e and
Hanama'ulu involved and last week I hope everybody remembers that I also did
have a concern within the golf course area. However, thanking my councilmembers,
I will not be supporting any .the amendment and the reason being is that what I've
been hearing is mainly the concern about the unfortunate bad dog owners with dogs
not being on the leash and we've heard islandwide and I believe from the
testimonies from Kekaha, Hanapepe, Koloa, the Lihu`e area, for them to be able to
utilize the Smart Growth purposes, they are able to drive past the golf course and
take a quick turn into Lydgate as does the people from the homesteads or the
houselot area and they can enjoy that area and as I mentioned, please, I don't know
if it's possible at all, but we all need to make our discretion when places are
overcrowded. I mean during shopping season you don't go to Kukui Grove, you
know, in the peak times. There's other examples that we could give. But, you
know, one of the concerns that the community raised was when the proposed path
was going to go from Kealia to Kuna, those that were used to Lihi to Kealia were
now forced to get in their cars and drive up to the Kealia area, consequently getting
yet again involved in traffic. And there is one of the things that I did do was stand
at the intersection if you turn into Kealia, and as most people know, the cars are
going at least 50 miles an hour if not more, so you got cars trying to not only get out
with two different ways of traffic. So you know I am pleased with all of our
discussion and I have been assured and reassured that if any members of the
council and any members of the community at any some time or another has a
concern and is. wanted to bring up a discussion about places that are not yet
currently funded, studied or built, there is a mechanism to have that discussion so
we can write the deal. But I am going to be supporting the bill as amended and I
want to thank my fellow councilmembers for giving me this opportunity Thank you
very much.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Furfaro.
Mr Furfaro: Yes, I just want to summarize. My first
amendment again was put out there based on. and I want to make it very clear I
don't want to over promise and under deliver That's what I said. I have a couple of
nephews that are lawyers, I have a nephew that's a judge, and so forth and there's
so many ways to look at the law and I just thought again let's. you know, my
COUNCIL MEETING -62- May 12, 2010
position has been clear for that area from the very beginning and I think everybody
here knows that. But I'm also a big boy and I know how to speak when it's my turn
and it wasn't my turn until now because I'm not a committee member So let's say I
appreciate your offer to let me have somebody else introduce it, but you know, I feel
it was appropriate for me to share that 6.2 miles. I think the responsible dog
owners earned the 6.2 miles.
My second amendment which hasn't been on the table.
Chair Asing: Hang on.
Mr Furfaro: Are we going to vote on the first one? What are we
going to do.
Chair Asing: Let's do this. Is there further discussion on the
amendment that is on the floor now as proposed by Councilmember Furfaro? If
there are no discussion, let me just make a few comments. First of all the comment
made by Councilmember Bynum regarding all over the country and the paths dogs
are allowed, I want to tell you that there is a difference between the path when it
goes through a county park, that is a difference because we do not. currently our
rules do not allow dogs in the county park, so that's our law today So when the
path goes through the park, it is that portion that is prohibited because it goes
through the park. So I just want to clarify that and perhaps we can move on. Let's
take a vote on this amendment. So, all those in favor of the amendment say, aye.
Those opposed say, no. The noes have it. It does not pass.
The motion to amend Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, as shown in the first amendment
introduced by Mr Furfaro (see Attachment No. 1) was then put, and failed 3 to 4
(Councilmembers Bynum, Chang, Kawahara, and Kawakami voting no)
Chair Asing: Is there further amendments?
Mr Furfaro: Yes, I have another amendment.
Chair Asing: Fine.
Mr Furfaro• Thank you.
Chair Asing: Can you make a motion to amend?
Mr Furfaro: Yes, I'd like to make a motion to attempt to amend
again.
Mr Kaneshiro: I'll second the motion.
Chair Asing and Mr Furfaro: Thank you.
Mr Furfaro moved to amend Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, as shown in the amendment
attached hereto (see Attachment No. 2), seconded by Mr Kaneshiro.
Chair Asing: The floor is yours.
Mr Furfaro: Thank you and I think this is bung circulated.
This is a general prohibition applicable to all parks and recreation facilities in
section (e), but it. .I want to make sure everybody understands. it is asking the
parks and recreation department to come back and make another presentation to us
COUNCIL MEETING -63- May 12, 2010
as it deals with the 18 months of the approval of this ordinance for the "evaluation
of allowing dogs on the path. The report shall include, but not be limited to, any
concerns regarding incidences of dog bites, citations, etc." But one thing that is also
very clear, I have no idea where we're going to be budget-wise in 18 months and
how many more park rangers we can put on and so forth. This is not a sunset. This
is only a revisit of our procedures. There might be some things that parks and
recreation wants to point out to us that we need to revisit on. So, that's all I'm
asking for in that.
Chair Asing: Thank you, Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Mr Kaneshiro: I also concur to Mr Furfaro's amendment. I was in
the process of putting an amendment like this together also and basically all it's
saying is that, you know, let's just go reassess the effectiveness of this whole
ordinance. As stated in my previous arguments is that this ordinance allows dogs,
even on unimproved path, remember that. It allows dogs anywhere on multi-use
path, whether it's in Wailua, whether it's in Nawiliwili, whether it's in Waimea,
whether it's in Koloa or Kukui`ula or to the Spouting Horn. So, the bill we just
passed allows that to happen and basically all it's saying is that as time moves, as
Mr Furfaro pointed out, Phase 2, Wailua to Papaloa, probably, you know, up to
Kawaihau will be completed by the fall 2011 with additional miles of added path. It
may be a pretty good idea to just go look back. We're not saying. I'm not in favor of
sunsetting this ordinance, I'm telling you right now I'm not. if there was a sunset
clause in this, I would not approve it. But it's just reassessing, looking at it, see
where we're at, and if everything is as well as we did have in the 18-month period,
there would be no problems at all. I think, you know, it would be a great thing. But
it would be a great time to reassess and just, and we're not (inaudible) you know,
we're not asking. I don't think I see anything about asking for surveys and asking
for all kinds of, you know, way that we implemented the trial basis. Basically it's
just, you know, if there are. there were some concerns, some incidences of dog
bites, citations and so forth, it gives us this time to reevaluate this. council, let's
reevaluate this as we move on and I can surely support this amendment.
Chair Asing: Thank you, any further discussion?
Ms. Kawahara. Can 1.
Chair Asing: Councilmember Kawahara.
Ms. Kawahara. Thank you, thank you, Council Chair I
understand that. I understand why this. why Councilmember Furfaro is asking
for this and I think it is the reas. you know, it's reasonable because we don't know
where the paths may go But we do know what responsible dog ownership is and
what it looks like on the paths that we have now and that's what it would look like
wherever the path may go and whatever whatever, wherever it goes. That's why I
was in support of the bill for being there for all future paths because I believe the
work done, the studies and the records show responsible dog owners, responsible
dog walkers are capable and have every right to be on the path as much as anybody
else that's doing something that's legal and appropriate. So, again, I understand we
don't know where the paths are going, but we do know by the law what we want
responsible dog owners to do and what we want them to emulate and what is. what
they have been doing for a year and a half. So, I can't support this, but I do
understand where it's coming from. But I do see that we may not know where the
path is going, but we do know what responsible dog owners would be doing on that
path and their behavior
COUNCIL MEETING -64- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. I appreciate this dialogue and I. like I said I think
that it's very positive as a community and I didn't support the trial period when it
happened. But I want to acknowledge that good things have come from that in
terms of focusing our community on good stewardship and making those behavioral
changes and although this amendment is fairly benign, it says that the parks
department will give a report and then it also says that. but it also says
that. something I don't really understand what the implications would be "at such
time the council shall reassess the effectiveness of this ordinance, which allows dogs
on the path." So even though this amendment is fairly benign, I don't think it's
necessary to put it into law If in 18 months any councilmember wants the parks
department and it's part of their routine to do these things this bill says, to monitor,
to look at a s. you know, to record any incidents, to keep a record of citations, and
so I think if any member wants the parks department to come back in 18 months
and provide an assessment, that they can. It's not necessary to place that in an
ordinance. So, I don't think I'll be supporting this.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Furfaro
Mr Furfaro. Yes, I just. maybe I need to clarify that. It's not
any councilmember it's any member with three other votes that can change
things. But I want to say that the intent, since you know sometimes I speak in
pidgin tones and I don't articulate as well in writing, my concern was since I didn't
hear from the county attorney, when we go along, if we go along Coco Palms, you
know, what is the barrier between the walkers, the dog and the road? I don't know
that. If.
Mr Bynum. I do.
Mr Furfaro: I'm glad you do What., when we do get to
Lydgate, if we go 6 feet on either side of the path and yet we're going by the
pavilion, baby luau, so forth, you know, would we need a fence, you know, with
some gates? Those are the types of things and Mr Bynum I'm speaking to you
because you asked the question, those are the kinds of things that I just suggest
that need revisiting, you know Most of my life I constantly worked in resort areas
where part of the yearly review was to make upgrades to the facilities to meet the
demands of customers and the needs of operations. So, I hope I answered your
question.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. And I understand that. I. when I. if I understand
this amendment, it doesn't anticipate any vote on anything in 18 months, it just
asks the parks department to give an assessment.
Mr Furfaro That's right.
Mr Bynum. and I think any of us could ask that if. assuming
we're here. I may not be here 18 months from now
Mr Furfaro: But I didn't want to portray it as if there was a vote
that could change something. It is only asking for an updated "and shall consider
these things" or may want to have some things. They are only in consideration of
what we may want to constantly make improvements on.
COUNCIL MEETING -65- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: Thank you. With that, Councilmember Kaneshiro,
and then Councilmember Kawakami.
Mr Kaneshiro: Thank you, Chair Let me go straight to the point
on this. My intent was basically so if you do have a whole new council that is
reelected or comes back in November, you people don't have to deal with this issue
at least now for 18 months because we have something in the law that specifically
states, that gives you guys the time to say, let's look at citations and so forth. So,
I'm fine whichever way it goes. What I'm trying to prevent is this coming back to
the table in 6 months. We may have a whole different council here in
committee. we might have the same council but a whole different committee that
can bring this back on the table right after election in 6 months. That's the reality,
you know, and I said I support dogs on the path, I don't have a problem, but I don't
want to be dealing with this again in 6 months time, I mean, you know This has
been a long debatable issue that we've had. I mean, it's been, you know that's
what this here will do, will allow you to do that, will allow even to reassess in
18 months and I'm certain with the way that you. it's been proven what the dog
owners have done in the past that it's not going to be an issue. But, you know, I'm
just putting a warning sign up there so if this doesn't fly, that's fine, but I can tell
you it can come back in 6 months.
Chair Asing: Thank you. With that, Councilmember Kawakami.
Mr Kawakami. Thank you, Mr Chair, and so what I'm
understanding is this is just a report back after 18 months, and so, you know what
for me, this. it's not a big deal. I'm going to support it because it's really not that
big of a deal. In fact, I think it's a good idea and.
Mr Furfaro• Oh, thank you, thank you.
Mr Kawakami: in fact, L. no, well, you know what, quite frankly
right off the bat everybody knew my position and I've been strong to the position.
But this. this is a good thing because where I'm coming from is I think in
18 months, I'm confident that the reports are going to be positive. You know, if I
didn't feel that way, I wouldn't be. you know, I wouldn't have taken the stance that
I took, so I have nothing to be afraid of, I think, after 18 months, and if I'm wrong,
so what? Then I'm wrong. But you know what? We cannot be basing our decisions
on the fear of failure, you know, and if we base our decisions on the what-ifs and
what if it fails or what if I took the wrong stance, man, I'm dust going to walk the
easy way down the middle of the road and then nothing happens. So, this really is
not that big of a deal. I don't know why there's such heated debate on it, it's
18 months, hey, give us a report, let us know if there's dog bites or not. Let us know
if there's incidences or not, and it's good for us. It lets us know, well, lets us know
where we stand if we made the right decision. We're not going to always make the
right decision, okay, but we cannot be basing our actions on the fear of failing
because then nothing gets done, okay So this really does nothing, 18 months they
report back, I can support it, okay Let's move on.
Chair Asing: Thank you. Councilmember Bynum.
Mr Bynum. I don't think this part is heated. I think we did
that already, but we.. you know if there's votes for this and it's the consensus of the
group, I can support it because I think it's pretty benign. I don't think it's necessary
because we can accomplish it anyway, but I do, if the committee will be patient with
me for one minute, I do have just one question about the final sentence that perhaps
I could ask the county attorney
COUNCIL MEETING -66- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: I'm not going to hold you back. Whatever you
want, Mr Bynum, is open for discussion.
Mr Bynum. If I could. I just. the last sentence says. if I could
just read this, "it's anticipated that" well, no. it says we're going to get a report
from the parks director in 18 months. I got no problem with that. I just have a
minor concern. It's probably not anything real. The last sentence says, "At such
time the council shall reassess the effectiveness of this ordinance which allows dogs
on the path." I'm coming from the assumption that a reassessment means a
discussion, you know, that we have a dialogue and so I just want to ask the county
attorney if this language would require a vote from the council or is my assumption
correct.
Chair Asing: Can we have the county attorney up, please?
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
AMY ESAKI, First Deputy County Attorney- Amy Esaki.
Chair Asing: Hang on for just a little while. We have some
technical problems, I believe, and I want to make sure that it's okay We're going to
take a short break, technical problems.
There being no objection, the meeting was recessed at 4.47 p.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 4:56 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: The meeting is called back to order, with that we
have the county clerk up and I believe there was a question.
The rules were still suspended
County attorney
Chair Asing: County attorney, I'm sorry
Ms. Esaki: Okay, I'm going to ask Councilmember Bynum to
repeat his question.
Mr Bynum. The last sentence says, "At such time the council
shall reassess the effectiveness of this ordinance which allows dogs on the path."
I'm operating from the assumption that that means the council will decide what
reassess means, but it doesn't require a vote on the bill.
Ms. Esaki. That's correct. The council at that time will. the
word is shall, so you'll be reassessing at that time and as to how the council will
dispose of the matter will depend on the discussion that takes place in the future.
Mr Bynum. Okay, thank you very much for that.
Ms. Esaki. You're welcome.
Chair Asing: Thank you. With that, I'd like to call the meeting
back to order
COUNCIL MEETING -67- May 12, 2010
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: We have a motion on the floor to amend. Any
further discussion? All those in favor say, aye.
The motion to amend Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, as shown in the second amendment
introduced by Mr Furfaro (see Attachment No. 2) was then put, and carried by a
vote of 6-1 (Councilmember Kawahara voting no)
Chair Asing: Thank you, the ayes have it, the amendment
passes. Is there any other amendments? If not, we're on the main bill as amended.
Is there any further discussion? If not, I'd like to take a few minutes of recess while
I set up Thank you. We're in a short recess.
There being no objection, the meeting was recessed at 4:58 p.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 5.12 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Asing: The meeting is now called back to order and I
believe I asked if there was any other comments for discussion purposes before we
take the vote, am I correct? Is there anyone else who wants to make any comments,
councilmembers? If not.
Ms. Kawahara. Will you be doing a presentation?
Chair Asing: Pardon me?
Ms. Kawahara. Will you be doing a presentation?
Chair Asing: Yes.
Ms. Kawahara. Oh, okay
Chair Asing: That's the reason I asked if anybody had any
Ms. Kawahara. And then we get discussion after that?
Chair Asing: comments.
Ms. Kawahara. Oh, I thought I might have discussion after that if I
had comments.
Chair Asing: Pardon me?
Ms. Kawahara. I might. I thought I might have comments after it,
but no, you're not going to take comments.
Chair Asing: Yeah, I mean we're done Everybody did their
comments. My turn to do my comments and then we'll take the vote.
Ms. Kawahara. Okay, okay
Chair Asing: Okay? You know 1. first of all I would like to
commend all of you people who have worked so hard, diligent, spent the time and
effort to do what you felt in your heart was right, and I commend you for doing it.
There is a little bit of a difference between what I feel and my convictions are, and I
COUNCIL MEETING -68- May 12, 2010
will explain my reasoning, my conviction and where I stand on the issue and why I
owe that to you as your representative on the council, and I do represent all of you.
Issues: honesty, integrity, accountability, openness, transparency, the little
and big things that administrators and politicians know about but don't talk about
because of fear fear fear of the unknown, what would happen, what could
happen, should happen to me or others. Fear, what's the upside, what's the
downside, what's the future for all concerned, for me? Is there another way? I've
spent sleepless nights thinking about the zillions of possible consequences. Then I
do a full circle and get back to honesty, integrity, accountability, openness and
transparency How important are these values in life to me? Is it worth it? Then
something else hits me. What's the big deal? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm the
problem. Then I start the sanity check and I look at myself and the zillions of
questions again repeats itself. Maybe I'm the problem and it's me, and I'm the guy
that's off base, unrealistic, unreasonable, and just plain wrong. Then after doing
these series of doubtful questioning on myself, guess what? I end up back to square
one again. I'm okay I'm not way off base on the accuracy and truthfulness of the
information and my conviction.
I want to start by saying (1) there was an issue about dog attacks. There
is.. there was one that was reported and you heard it this morning, an attack that
happened at the Lydgate area. I want to read you another one. Let me read you
this letter and I don't have to name names. I don't think that's important. I think
the letter is more important. It's dated Wednesday, April 21, 2010 Council
Testimony- I am not for dogs on bike trail. I am writing concerning the issue of
dogs on the bike trail. To give you my background, I am the original person who got
attacked by a dog on a leash on the bike trail at Lydgate Park. I had no insurance
due to pre-existing-and I'm not sure what that was meant for-and was unable to
get medical attention. Mistake number one, I should have sued the county and the
dog owner From that experience I shall have fear of dogs and do not feel relaxed
when walking or biking. I want to know when the safety of our citizens, human
beings, become less important than the rights of dogs. Granted most dog owners
can control their dogs; however, there are many who cannot and there is ample
island to walk dogs. This is one. I have a number of correspondence with the same
fear of dog, not people who got bitten, but just fear of dogs on the path, and
therefore, I have some concerns. What about those people? Do they count? Or me
as a representative of the people of Kauai, it is only dog owners on the path is okay,
the rest of you don't count. If you have these problems you don't count. We don't
have a place for you. I think that's wrong. That's not fair That's not representing
the entire island, our community It is so unfair There should be places for people
to walk with their dog. Yes, I agree 100%. But what about those that are afraid?
Do they count? Or shall we say, you don't count. You have to walk. if you're going
to walk, you have to walk on the path, the dogs are there and you just don't count.
So, I have some concerns, some problems, who do I represent? What do I do? Is it
right? That's the first item.
The second item. original dog owner is. let me do this, let me say and I'm
going to read this first. We, you know, Councilmember Chang mentioned, you
know, the survey and everybody lived by the rules and abided by the rules, let me
read you this. This is to the Mayor I'm not going to mention names, who wrote
this, but I'll read it to you. "Dear Mayor, I have already written the county council
regarding my voice for dogs on the path, but I feel in light of your recent testimony
at the parks and recreation committee meeting, I would like to express my feelings
to you also I am wondering if you could help me understand why you would limit
dog owners to the thinnest and hardest accessible portion of the path when, in fact,
we were supposed to be allowed the entire path if we all followed the rules for the
COUNCIL MEETING -69- May 12, 2010
sunshine period. I want to emphasize this point to you if we all followed the rules
for this sunshine period." This is in the letter "Also, why does this continue to be
an issue when clearly the results show that the people are for continued allowance
of dogs on the multi-use path? Do you represent the people, those who voted. all
those who voted all of you into office? And if so, then why do our voices have a good
chance of being overlooked in what appears to be private platforms?"
Now, because I'm not going to mention the author of this, I will now tell you
that this individual here happens to be an individual that was on your committee
and on top of that, this individual here did surveys, did the logs, 31 on the log, and
34 on the survey But I want to read this to you. Citation Number 314340MK.
Date. 2/14/2010. Time: 11:05 Location: Bottom of trail coming down Donkey
Beach Parking Lot on bike path. Synopsis: Patrolling bike path on mule-and I'm
not going to mention the ranger's name or number-observed (the name) walking
two dogs on leashes down the paved path from Donkey Beach parking lot onto the
bike path. Following the rules, the letter to the mayor says following the rules. I
follow the rules. This person here was cited. This person here is one of you on the
path. Citation, two dogs. Fair, right, honest, I don't believe so
You know, this is, this is not easy for me. It's not as easy as you think it is.
I did a little review of the. the study, the survey Let me show you the results of
the survey because I hear my good friend Councilmember Chang says 97% of the
people agree according to the survey Let me show you the survey
Mr Furfaro. Excuse me, Mr Chair
Chair Asing: Yes.
Mr Furfaro: Do you not think you should turn this over to me
since you're making a presentation?
Chair Asing: Yes, I'm sorry My apologies, I will turn it over to
you while I make my presentation. My apologies.
Mr Furfaro: (Inaudible) you have the floor
Chair Asing: Yes, thank you. What I want to show you here
is. this survey here, there are really two surveys in here, one done by all of you
volunteers and I commend you for your work, for doing your hard work. But I want
you to look at that. It is very odd. It is very odd because. Can I have the pointer
please? The question: Are dog feces on the shared-use path currently a significant
problem? The path volunteers 90 1% said no, no problem. Why is it that another
survey, same group except it was done by staff here says 20.7% said no problem.
Look at the range. How can it be so far off? One group says no problem by 90% and
the other group says 20.7%. Something is wrong. Is that right? (The next one on.)
Question again. Do you feel safe with the leashed dogs on shared-use path? This is
the volunteers, 51.7% says no. Look at the disparity The other survey, no is 2%.
Something is wrong.
Mr Chang: Chair excuse me, I think.
Chair Asing: Yes.
Mr Chang: when you made reference to the 51.7% that
would have been reversed. If I. if.
COUNCIL MEETING -70- May 12, 2010
Chair Asing: No.
Mr Chang: Did I hear that correctly?
Chair Asing: No, no, no because here's the staff is the 51.7 and
the path volunteers is 2%, okay So, I want to just show you that something is
wrong. Then I will do one more thing to say, I wonder, maybe they're wrong too. So
let me show you another piece. This happens to be. the blue is the path volunteers
on a question of do you think the county should continue to allow leashed dogs on
the shared-use path. Look at the yes. The path volunteers 97.2% says yes. Look at
the staff 20.7 versus 97.2. Why is it so far off? Now, I took the Ward Research
information which was done by the Humane Society I believe, Dr Rhoades, you
commissioned that group to do a survey also and if you look at their survey, you will
find 43.0%. But look at the disparity between even 43.0% and 97.2%. Why
disparity? Something is wrong. It does not add up Thank you. Can you turn the
lights on again? Turn the lights on, please.
Mr Bynum. It takes a minute.
Chair Asing: Now, I want to make reference to one of the survey
reports. On one of the survey reports, what we have is a volunteer group person
surveying each other Why is that, one person surveying the other person? And
when I look at the results, I see it's beautiful and that's the way it should be, but
that's what is shown on the report. Now, let me do this. Let me show you the last
slide. Put the last slide on, please.
This slide here will show you in red the way the bill is today on the floor as
amended. The red represents the area that the dog can walk. The yellow here is
where the dogs are prohibited from walking. This portion here is unbuilt yet, and
that's from the Lihi all the way back to the Wailua Bridge area, so that's unbuilt.
Now, the question that I have that bothers me is again, here's what you have here
and Councilmember Furfaro, I want you to know that the miles that I have is
accurate. What you have here is in the red, you have the area that the dogs can
walk is 6.2 miles. The area that is being prohibited in here - Steph, that's wrong, it
should be one quarter - is one-quarter of a mile. The red is 6.2 miles. So, for me,
what is very difficult is simply this: for the dogs you have 6.2 miles that you can
walk. For the park system, your protection is you have one-quarter of a mile.
The next question is what about those that are afraid of dogs? They have
nothing, nothing. In other words, if you were afraid of dogs, sorry, but I can't allow
you. nothing for you. Maybe down the road some time, but today nothing. Is that
fair? Is that right? I don't believe so. I think they deserve a portion of the path and
I agree with the mayor that the portion of the path from this point here to this point
here is approximately 2.5 miles. Why shouldn't this be an area that would be
reserved for those that are afraid of dogs? What's wrong with that? Isn't that
reasonable for those people or they don't count? And that's the difficulty that I
have. In all of the things that I brought forward to you because I do not see that
there is a fairness and representation of all of the people. I do have information on
those that are opposed to dogs and I have information on those that support dogs.
So, I want you to know that I do support dogs on the path. But please have some
empathy, have some courtesy for others who are afraid and if they don't count, then
I don't feel comfortable that I am not representing all of the people of the island. I
believe that I want to represent all of the people. There is enough space for
everybody, so why shouldn't we share this and you get a portion of it, they get a
portion of it, the parks department is protected. I think that's a fair way to go.
With that, thank you, Councilmember?
COUNCIL MEETING - 71 - May 12, 2010
Mr Taylor- What about the 62 parks that don't allow dogs?
Mr Furfaro. You're out of order, I'm sorry
Mr Taylor You bet I am.
Chair Asing: With that, I just want to make one comment.
Mr Furfaro: Go right ahead, Chairman Asing.
Chair Asing: Thank you, put the light on. And that one
comment is that. you want to put that slide back again. When I made reference
to this portion here to the end, both Councilmember Furfaro and myself did a trial
run from the Lihi Park on three. two. two golf carts we had, right. on two golf
carts. It's a program that was budgeted, that we put money in the budget and we
had the golf cart for, again, others that should be considered. Who's the others that
should be considered? The elderly, the handicapped, those that cannot gain access
or walk. They need some exercise, some outlet and we did a proposed ordinance.
Now, we did go from this point all the way through and I'm sorry I don't have the
pictures, but to Lihi, and we did a picnic lunch at the pavilion there and then came
back again. I thought the program was very successful and so one of the proposals
that I had proposed was to have that begin at this point here and it would be for the
older kupunas with the golf cart and they would travel in this area here. The
timeframes would be adjusted so that they would go only hours that would be
limited. In other words, as an example, it would be maybe twice a week at
10 o'clock in the morning. That's what we did on the trial program that we did.
And that would be in this particular area here. So, the thought process, as far as
I'm concerned, what I was using was everybody gets a share. On top of that, you
also get a dog park. That is in the budget. The budget that we passed has money in
there for that. They are in the process of doing that. So, I just want to let you know
that that's where I'm coming from. I. 1 can count. I'm not, you know, that naive. I
will lose and I won't win, but I want you to know my thought process and how I feel
and why I feel the way I feel. So, I will be voting against it. It'll pass and life will
go on. It is the process and I accept the process. I am not going to fight the process.
But it is my duty to tell you as your representative why and what I do and what are
my reasons for doing what I do. So I want to be upfront and honest with you. So
with that, I'm going to be calling for the vote and can we take the vote now? Go
ahead.
Mr Kaneshiro• Mr Chair?
Chair Asing: Yes.
Mr Kaneshiro: If I will. if I could, this has nothing to do with the
presentation. You know, I gotta tell you, you know, I'm really disappointed that we
have people sitting in the audience, sitting here while you're making a presentation
and making loud comments. You know, I just gotta let you know that I have to let
it be known on the record that, you know, it's. it's uncalled for because you were
making a presentation with what you believe in and I find that very disrespectful.
Chair Asing: Well, sometimes it happens. You know tensions
are up and I understand it, you know I've been around a little bit and this is not
the first time I've been on. I don't know what the vote is going to be, but my vote
being cast on one side. This is not the first time. I've made these stands before, but
COUNCIL MEETING -72- May 12, 2010
believing in what I did was right and you decide on my reasonings whether I'm
wrong. If you think I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But you have my reasoning anyway and
you have my feel on why I do the things I do. So with that, call for the vote.
Mr Nakamura. This is on Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, as amended.
The motion to adopt Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, as amended to Bill No. 2354, Draft 2,
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION Bynum, Chang, Furfaro, Kaneshiro,
Kawahara, Kawakami TOTAL - 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION Asing TOTAL - 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING None TOTAL - 0.
Chair Asing: Thank you.
ADJOURNMENT-
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 5:44 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
PETER A. NAKAMURA
County Clerk
/wa
ATTACHMENT NO 1
(May 12, 2010)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No 2354, Draft 1, Relating to Parks and Recreation
INTRODUCED BY Jay Furfaroa)
Amend Bill No 2354, Draft 1, Sec. 19-1.4 to read as follows:
"Sec. 19-1.4 General Prohibitions Applicable To All Parks And
Recreation Facilities.
(a) No person at a park or recreation facility shall.
(1) Abandon any vehicle or other personal property
(2) Leave any vehicle or other personal property unattended
for longer than twenty-four (24) hours.
(3) Operate or use any audio devices including radios,
television sets, musical instruments or noise-producing devices such as
electric generators, or other equipment driven by motors or engines, in
such a manner and at such times that produces unreasonable noise as
defined in HRS Chapter 711-1101, unless authorized by the Director or
his designated representative on a permit.
(4) Use utilities and appurtenances for non-recreational,
commercial, or other activities, unless authorized by the Director or his
designated representative on a permit.
(5) Install aerial or other special radio, telephone, or
television equipment, unless authorized by the Director or his
designated representative on a permit.
(6) Operate or use public address systems, whether fixed,
portable or mounted on a vehicle, unless authorized by the Director or
his designated representative on a permit.
(7) Disturb or interfere with any other person occupying an
area, or participating in any authorized activity
(8) Lead or let loose any dogs or other domestic animals,
unless authorized by the Director or his designated representative on a
permit, except for as set forth in Sec. 19-1.4(a)(21).
(9) Use, carry or possess firearms and weapons of any
description, except for bows and arrows for archery competitions and
air rifles for air rifle competitions when authorized by the Director or
his designated representative on a permit.
(10) Drive or park motorized vehicles, including dune buggies,
motorcycles, minicycles, and scooters, or ride horses, except on
designated roads and parking areas, unless authorized by the Director
or his designated representative by signage or on a permit.
(11) Mark, deface, or remove any natural feature or natural
resources.
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ATTACHMENT NO 1
(12) Destroy, injure, deface or remove in any manner any
public building, sign, equipment, monument, marker or other
structure.
(13) Destroy, dig or remove tree, shrub or other plant, unless
authorized by the Director or his designated representative on a
permit.
(14) Construct or erect any building or structure of whatever
kind, whether permanent or temporary in character, unless authorized
by the Director or his designated representative on a permit, except for
a pre-fab and manufactured quick tent no larger than 20 feet x 20 feet
for an event or gathering.
(15) Start a fire except within designated grills, portable grills,
and fireplaces. No fire shall be left unattended and all fires shall be
fully extinguished after use.
(16) Throw or drop a lighted cigarette, cigar, pipe heel, match
or other burning material, except to start a fire within designated
grills, portable grills, and fireplaces as allows in paragraph 15.
(17) Use roller skates, roller blades, skateboards, or bicycles
except in designated areas authorized by the Director or his designated
representative through signage.
(18) Dance on any gymnasium floor while wearing shoes,
provided that dancing with shoes shall be permitted if a protective
covering over the floor is used.
(19) Dispose litter in other than designated trash receptacles.
(20) Operate or use air-horns, unless authorized by the
Director or his designated representative on a permit, or to start or end
events or races. As used herein, air-horn means a device intended to
produce a sound signal by means of compressed air or gas or exhaust
gas.
[(21) Dogs shall be permitted on the shared use path system
provided, however, that dogs or other domestic animals shall not be
allowed on the path system beginning at the makai end of Nalu Road
(entrance to Lydgate Beach Park) to the end of the path system
fronting Hikinaakala Heiau (see Exhibit A attached) The County
Engineer shall post signs to designate the appropriate area where dogs
are not allowed on the shared use path system.]
(21) Does shall be permitted on the shared use path beginning
at the former "Sea Shell" restaurant at the north end of Wailua Beach
extending northward to the end of the shared-use path at Kuna Bay
including the parking lot and pathway from the trail head at Kealia
Kai Comfort Station down to the coastal shared-use path. The County
Engineer shall post signs to designate the appropriate area where dogs
are allowed on the shared use path system.
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ATTACHMENT NO 1
Any dog handler with a dog utilizing the shared use
path system shall comply with the following:
(i) Be in command and control of dog at all
times.
(ii) Have no more than two (2) dogs under his
control.
(iii) Immediately remove his dog if it exhibits
aggressive behavior
(iv) Visibly carry the necessary instruments
required for the removal and disposal of dog feces.
(v) Pick up and dispose of any and all feces left
by the dog.
(vi) Have the dog wear at all times a valid
current dog license tag that is clearly and visibly attached
to the dog's collar
(vii) Have the dog on a leash that is no more than
six (6) feet in length at all times. Retractable leashes
shall not be allowed.
(b) Entering or remaining in a park area when manifestly under the
influence of alcohol, narcotics or other drugs, to a degree that may endanger
oneself or other persons or property, or unreasonably annoy persons in the
vicinity is prohibited.
(c) County Employees authorized by the Director shall have the
authority to issue citations and charges for any violations of the provisions of
this Section.
(d) It shall be unlawful to not comply with any provision of this
section. Any person violating any provision of this section shall be punished
by a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) for the first offense.
For the second violation of like offense, the punishment shall be a fine of not
less than Two Hundred Dollars ($200 00) For all violations in excess of two
(2) of like offense, the punishment shall be a fine of not less than Three
Hundred Dollars ($300 00) and not more than Five Hundred
Dollars ($500 00) In addition, the County shall have the right to avail itself
of any civil remedy appropriate under the circumstances."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)
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ATTACHMENT NO 2
(May 12, 2010)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, Relating to Parks and Recreation
INTRODUCED BY Jay Furfaro
Amend Bill No. 2354, Draft 1, Sec. 19-1.4 by adding a new subsection "(e)" to read
as follows:
"Sec. 19-1.4 General Prohibitions Applicable To All Parks And
Recreation Facilities.
(e) As it is anticipated that Phase III A (Wailua to Papaloa,
including Kawaihau Spur) will be completed by the Fall 2011, which will
provide approximately one (1) additional mile of paved pathway, the Director
of Parks and Recreation shall submit a report to the Council within eighteen
(18) months of the approval of this ordinance, providing an evaluation of
allowing dogs on the path. The report shall include, but not be limited to,
any concerns, incidences of doe bites, citations, etc. At such time, the Council
shall reassess the effectiveness of this ordinance which allows dogs on the
Rath:,
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)
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