HomeMy WebLinkAboutpc08-10-10min
KAUAI PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
August 10, 2010
The regular meeting of the Planning Commission of the County of Kauai was called to order by
Chair, Caven Raco, at 9.08 a.m. at the Lihu`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, in meeting
roo2A-2B. The following Commissioners were present:
Mr. Herman Texeira
Ms. Paula Morikami
Mr. Caven Raco
Mr. Jan Kimura
Mr. Hartwell Blake
Mr. James Nishida
Ms. Camilla Matsumoto
Discussion of the meeting, in effect, ensued:
APROVAL OF THE AGENDA
Chair: Can I get an approval of the agenda?
Ms. Matsumoto: So moved.
Mr. Kimura: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye.
On motion made by Camilla Matsumoto and seconded by Jan Kimura, to approve
the agenda, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Chair: Motion to receive items for the record.
Ms. Matsumoto: So moved.
Ms. Morikami: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye, motion carries.
On motion made by Camilla Matsumoto and seconded by Paula Morikami, to
receive items for the record, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Chair: Any revisions for the minutes for July 13th and July 27th? If not I will get a
motion to approve.
Ms. Morikami: Move to approve.
Ms. Matsumoto: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye, motion carries.
On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto, to
approve regular meeting minutes for July 13, 2010 and July 27, 2010, motion carried
unanimously by voice vote.
GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
SEP 14 2010
d
Executive Session: Pursuant to Hawaii Revised Statutes Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(4) an
(8) and Kauai County Charter section 3.07(E), the pumose of this executive session is to
discuss with the Commission legal issues pertaining to Non-Conforming Use Certificate
application TVNC-1086 at TMK: 2-6-11:001. This briefing and consultation involves the
consideration of the powers duties privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the Commission
as they relate to this agenda item.
Commission went into executive session at 9:13 a.m.
Regular meeting was called back to order at 9:49 a.m.
COMMUNICATION
Communication from Malcolm Fernandez, Personnel Director, relating to certifications
of satisfactory performance pursuant to procedures established by the Personnel Director on the
annual evaluations for nonelected appointees due to the Personnel Director no later than October
25, 2010.
Chair: Is there anyone in the public that would like to testify on this agenda item?
Seeing none I will entertain a motion to receive.
Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, so moved.
Mr. Nishida: Second.
Chair: All those in say aye, motion carries.
On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by James Nishida, to receive
communication from Malcolm Fernandez, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Letter dated 8/2/2010 from Planning Director Ian K. Costa to Caven Raco, Chair, Kauai
Planning Commission requesting that the Planning Commission initiate proceedings for the
following amendment to Chapter 8 of the Kauai County Code.
A bill to add an additional section to Chapter 8, Article 24 of the Kauai County Code
relating to the imposition of civil fine authority for the County of Kauai Planning Department.
Deputy Director Imai Aiu read letter into the record (on file).
Mr. Nishida: Move to initiate proceedings.
Mr. Texeira: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye, opposed, motion carries.
On motion made by James Nishida and seconded by Herman Texeira, to initiate
proceedings, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Chair: Is there anybody in the public that would like to testify on this agenda item?
Seeing none, since we have a motion to proceed I will move on.
SUBDIVISION
Mr. Nishida: Subdivision Committee Meeting report, Tuesday, August 10, 2010. We
had only tentative subdivision action, State of Hawaii, S-2010-12, State of Hawaii, Department
of Land and Natural Resources, Land Division, TMK: 4-6-003:004, 010, 021, 034, approved 3-0.
This one was a proposal for another lot for that water tank up on the land on Kahuna Road, S-
2011-01, Canpartners Realty Holding Company IV Kealia, LLC, TMK: 4-7-003:002, approved
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August 10, 2010
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3-0, 5-2011-02, Canpartners Realty Holing Company IV Kealia, LLC, TMK: 4-7-004:001,
approved 3-0. Move to approve subdivision committee report.
Ms. Matsumoto: Second.
Chair: Any discussion, seeing none all those in favor say aye, opposed, motion carries.
On motion made by James Nishida and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto, to
approve Subdivision Committee Report, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
UNFINISHDED BUSINESS
Memorandum (7/7110) from Deputy Planning Director Imaikalani Aiu to Caven Raco,
Chair Kauai Planning Commission, recommending the Commission consent to TVNC-1078,
Tax May Key 5-8-09:013, James R. Christiansen. 1Staff Report received and deferred 7/13/10.1
Inspection Report pertaining to this matter.
Deputy Director Imai Ain: This is the TVR that was deferred two weeks ago on the
Commission's request to have the applicant's representative present. We do have additional
findings if you would like me to read that into the record I can (read report on file).
Chair: Are there any questions for the planner, seeing none is the applicant's
representative here?
Staff: He was here.
Chair: Commissioners he is not here again so is there anybody in the public that would
like to testify on this agenda item? Seeing none what would be the pleasure of the Commission?
Mr. Nishida: Move to defer.
Chair: Is there a second to defer?
Mr. Kimura: Second.
Chair: Any discussion before I call for the vote?
Staff: Would you like to specify a date to deferral?
Mr. Nishida: Let's give him a chance until the end of the meeting.
Chair: So we would not defer, actually we would table this agenda item.
Mr. Nishida: Move to table.
Mr. Kimura: I withdraw my second.
Chair: So there is a motion to table, is there a second?
Ms. Morikami: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye, motion carries.
On motion made by James Nishida and seconded by Paula Morikami, to table
agenda item, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
NEW PUBLIC HEARING
Use Permit U-2010-21 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2010-23 for the construction of
an enclosure along the western end of the Lzhu`e Public Library, measuring approx. 1,200 sq. ft.
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August 10, 2010
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for three (3) Air Conditioning Units, on a parcel situated on the northern side of Hardy Street,
immediately across the Wilcox Elementary School campus, further identified as Tax Map Key 3-
6-015:029, and containing a total area of 53,330 sg. ft. = State of Hawaii, Department of
Accounting and General Business. [Director's Report received 7/.27/10.1
Staff Planner Dale Cua read Director's report (on file).
Chair: Are there any questions for the planner?
Mr. Kimura: The wall is 8 feet?
Staff: Yes.
Mr. Kimura: Does it have to be 8 feet?
Staff: Not necessarily.
Mr. Kimura: What is the recommendation from the Fire Department, do we have that
yet?
Staff: The only comments they have is "Project shall comply with 1997 Uniform Fire
Code and all other agencies, fire lane 20 feet wide, 13 feet, 6 inch height clearance", so no
reference to the height of the wall.
Mr. Costa: Commissioner, you might want to address that question to the applicant as
well. I am not sure if that height has to do with sound attenuation.
Chair: Any more questions before I call the applicant up? If not is the applicant here?
Mr. Tyler jiyama: Good morning Commissioners, my name is Tyler Fujiyama. I am
with the State of Hawaii, Department of Accounting and General Services. Before we say a few
words about our project at the Lihu`e Library I just wanted to introduce who we have here this
morning. From the Hawaii State Library Systems Administrative Office we have Keith Fujio,
from the consultant team we have our architect Lloyd Fliga, he is sitting next to me from
Yamasato, Fujihara, Higa Associates. Our mechanical engineer from Engineering Dynamics is
Ty Miafuchi, and our acqustic engineer from (inaudible) is Yoichi Ebisu. We also have Ryan
Nishikawa and Edwin Santamaria from our local Kauai DAGS office here today. The head
librarian, Carolynn Larson from the Lihu`e Library wanted to be here today but unfortunately
she is under the weather so she couldn't make it. I will let Lloyd say a few words about the
project that we are doing at the library.
Mr. Lloyd Riga: Thank you Planning Commission, my name is Lloyd Riga, I am with
Yamasato, Fujihara, Higa, the project architect that was contracted by DAGS. The name of the
project is the Lihu`e Public Library ADA Transition Plan and Other Improvements. As part of
the improvements what happened was we had to provide a new air conditioning system for the
library because of the mold problems they have been having. I guess Dale Cua covered most of
the explanation as far as adding the new ACC enclosure but I will just go over it again. Part of
the improvements was to replace the existing air conditioning system with a new system. In
order to provide a new air conditioning system we needed to provide an exterior enclosure as
stated by Dale of about 1,200 square feet to contain the 3 ACC units as shown on our drawings.
Also stated in this description, the ACC units are required to be open air so it needed to be
situated outside of the building.
The reason we had the 8 feet high was mainly to, I think it was the recommendation of
our acoustical engineer to make it 8 feet high and also provide sound attenuation panels on the
inside as well as on the (inaudible). As mentioned by Dale also we have an access gate on the
front and that is similar to the other gates that are on the library. The last thing, in adding the
enclosure we had to take away four stalls on the west side of the building so we did a calculation
and we checked with Planning and we do meet the... we have three stalls in excess of what is
required. So we have enough stalls, we were short one stall so as part of the project we are
adding one additional stall to the parking lot.
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Chair: Commissioners are there any questions for the applicant?
Ms. Morikami: I am looking at the comments coming back from County Engineer
Donald Fujimoto. I am looking at his item No. 2, recommending that a sidewalk from Hardy
Street be provided to provide continuous accessibility from the library to Wilcox School. I am
just wondering what your comments are on that comment.
Mr. Hiea: I will let Keith Fujio from the library system assist us in responding.
Mr. Keith Fujio: Good morning Commissioners, Keith Fujio, the Administrative Service
Officer for the Hawaii State Public Library System. We saw the comments about the sidewalk
and we agree it is probably a good thing to have as far as accessibility to the library. I think there
is some question about where the County property ends and where the State property begins. We
could definitely take a look at it and see if we can either do some kind of joint project with the
County of see if there is anything else we could do as far as helping with those improvements.
Ms. Morikami: But currently it is not in your plan?
Mr. Fuiio: No.
Ms. Morikami: But you are willing to work with the County to have that become a
reality as far as the sidewalk because it is so close to the school?
Mr. Fuiio: Sure, we are willing to work with the County.
Ms. Morikami: Thank you. I have an amendment coming.
Chair: Any more questions for the applicant, thank you. Is there anybody in the public
that would like to testify on this agenda item? Seeing one, I will bring the meeting back to order,
there is...we received it for the record so if we want to close the public hearing.
Mr. Kimura: So moved.
Mr. Texeira: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye, motion carried.
On motion made by Jan Kimura and seconded by Herman Texeira, to close the
public hearing, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Chair: You have received all the comments Dale?
Staff: Yes I have.
Chair: Does the Commission want Dale to proceed with the recommendation, okay.
Staff read department recommendation (on file).
Chair: Any questions for the planner?
Mr. Blake: Dale, given the State's willingness to work with the County with respect to
condition No. 2, can that be made a condition?
Staff: Any suggestions as far as modifying that condition?
Mr. Blake: Just say the applicant shall construct the sidewalk.
Staff: That can be done.
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Mr. Blake: Instead of saying the applicant is strongly encouraged to construct the
sidewalk, say the applicant shall construct a sidewalk connection to the existing sidewalk along
the northern side Hardy Street, etc, which construction shall be completed at the time of the final
installation of the air conditioning units. So that they know what they have to do and when they
have to do it.
Staff: So basically to eliminate "strongly encourage", just say "Shall".
Mr. June: Dale, have you seen a survey of where the property lines are?
Staff: Driving by the property I have seen property pins at this point but often times
sidewalks are typically constructed within the road right-of-way.
Mr. June: Commissioner Blake, there may be an issue of whose property that sidewalk is
actually on.
Mr. Blake: Does that make any difference though?
Mr. June: They would have to get a right or entry onto our property and there are certain
procedural steps they would have to take.
Mr. Blake: I am for them doing that. And then the second paragraph, just take off the
first two words, "if considered", just cross that out.
Chair: Commissioners, it would be better if we could entertain a motion for either
approval or denial and then we could then entertain amendments so what would be the pleasure
of the Commission? Is there a motion on the floor?
Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, move to approve Use Permit U-2010-21 and Class IV Zoning
Permit Z-IV-2010-23, for the construction of the enclosure along the western end of the L-lhu`e
Public Library.
Ms. Matsumoto: Second.
Chair: I will call for discussion, so you discussion is to amend recommendation 2, to
read as what?
Ms. Morikami: I have a proposed amendment, can I read it?
Chair: Sure.
Ms. Morikami: 2, "In order to provide a pedestrian connection between the Library and
the elementary school campus the applicant is required to work with the County of Kauai in
providing a sidewalk connection to the existing sidewalks along the northern side of Hardy Street
situated just west of the subject parcel prior to final completion."
Mr. Texeira: Mr. Chair, this is a budgetary item and I don't know if DOT, the
Department of Accounting and General Services have funds for this project and I just wanted to
get their comments in terms of funding for this project.
Mr. Costa: If I may, Hardy Street right now, it does have a sidewalk that goes from the
Library to Hardy Street. I am not sure if we are speaking of a sidewalk along Hardy Street which
is within the right-of-way, in other words on the County's property. And I am not sure if the
development which in this case is (inaudible) construction of the County sidewalks along the
(inaudible).
Ms. Morikami: The comment came from Public Works. The comment came from
Donald Fujimoto, County Engineer so I am just wondering.
Chair: Is your amendment to require them to work with them or do you want it installed?
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Ms. Morikami: The language I have is require to work with the County in providing a
sidewalk connection.
Chair: Do you still want me to call the applicant up?
Mr. Texeira: Yes.
Chair: Let me suspend the rules, if the applicant's representative can come up to answer
our question from the Commission. So I think the questions is in your construction budget is
there enough funds to install an engineered sidewalk if it is on State property?
Mr. Higa: Currently no. We fit the project out earlier this year and actually came in a
little bit over our budget so we had to supplement the project funding just to cover our bid for the
current project. So any additional work, I don't know where the funding would come from. I
guess I do want to mention that we do want to at least get started with the project. It is a very
important project for the library. We have awarded the project and I guess like any other project
any additional delay hurts getting this project underway.
Chair: Any more questions? Thank you, I will bring the meeting back to order. With
that said is there any more discussion on the amendment that is on the floor?
Mr. Nishida: I have a question, it doesn't require construction, it requires working with
the County to provide that so that could mean it be a project they agree upon like a project for the
future.
Ms. Morikami: Right. And if that is the case then I would eliminate the language that I
proposed at the end that said prior to final completion.
Mr. Nishida: But it says that they talk.
Technical Difficulties, no sound recoded.
On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Hartwell Blake to approve
amendment to recommendation No. 2, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto to
approve staff recommendation as amended, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Use Permit U-2010-22 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2010-24 to establish and
operate a Go-Cart track and concession ona portion of the former Hale Kaua`i/Honsador
Lumber Yard situated at 5633 Kawaihau Road. The property is located on the south side of
Kawaihau Road approx 300 ft west of its intersection with Kuahale Street, further identified as
Tax Map Key 4-6-037.067 and containing a total area of 3.161 acres = Go Karts Kauai.
Director's Report pertaining to this matter.
Testimony and contents containing Petition with 200 signatures, 138 letters, 2 letters to
the editor, and a copy of the certified mailing received by some residents in the area, in
opposition to application transmitted by letter (8/2/10) from Randie and Kathy Peters.
Staff Planner Kaaina Hull read staff report (on file).
Chair: Are there any questions on the evaluation? If not is the applicant here?
Mr. John Outzen: Good morning Commissioners, my name is John Outzen. I would
like to thank the Commissioners for considering my project. I have lived on Kauai for 27 years
and have 3 sons born and raised on Kauai. I am a masonry contractor and my sons work with
me in my construction business and they would be a big part of the Go Cart track. My sons and I
have been involved with some kind of motor sports for the past 20 years on Kauai and I know
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that the years we have spent together riding and working on motorcycles, go carts, cars and
trucks has been a very positive impact on our lives. Go carting has become a huge sport all over
the world. The carts today are very safe and can be enjoyed by the whole family. I would like to
work with the kids from the schools to learn about small engines and carting and working on
motorized vehicles. I know helping kids develop their mechanical aptitude can help then
throughout their whole lives. I know this could be a very positive learning tool. The carts I
would be using are 4-cycle engines, very low emissions and very quiet, they are made to run
indoors so they have to be extremely quite. They have special exhausts systems with a catalytic
converter. I am very concerned with not disrupting the neighborhood on Kawaihau Road and
will do whatever I can to make this project acceptable to the community.
Ms. Jean Camp: Aloha Commissioners, my name is Jean Camp, with Camp Consulting
LLC and I am the authorized agent for Go Karts Kauai. I have been assisting John with the
permitting and some of the background for this project. I wanted to go over a few things that I
have put up on the board for you and as John said the go carts themselves, these aren't the carts
that we have seen 20 years ago which I remember riding in England which were absolutely
exciting and fun to ride. These carts have a lot more technology in them, they are 4-cycle
engines instead of 2 which means they burn a lot cleaner. They have catalytic converters and
there are ways to obviously modify sound. And at the point source meaning right at the carts the
ones that John is looking to buy are only at 70 to 78 decibels which is pretty low noise to start
with. So that is a little bit about the noise.
As far as parking which I wanted to comment on just because there was a change from
what was in the original application. I am going to go up to the board. We have one parking
stall per 3 employees and there is going to be 3 employees, John and his sons will be involved as
operating the business. And then as far as one stall per operating vehicle there are 10 carts the
we purchased even though 10 may not be running at one time so we have a total of 11 stalls.
Past permits for this project if you are familiar with the project is the Canary on Kawaihau Road
so inside the building for all the permitted uses there were 53 parking spaces required previously.
We are not changing that. The go cart will require 11 and there is potential for a cabinet shop
which is going to be in the back of the existing space which will require several more spots,
another 11 spots. So the new spaces we need are 22 for the go cart and for the cabinet business
which brings total required stalls to 75. We have over 101 stalls on the property already so there
is an excess of 26 stalls for a future business or other needs.
As far as this picture and what you have around here, I thought an overhead would be the
best way to see really who is where and what is happening. The go cart track is going to go on
this existing concrete. If you remember Honsador Lumber's business there is that concrete
pavement that is existing and so the track is going to go here, adjacent to the existing Canary
building. There is a little, if you remember it kind of looks like a little guard tower or shack, that
is going to be where people pull in and can check in for the go carts and then they will come in to
the back and park behind and out of the way of the business. What you have adjacent is there is
a control building, the Canary, No. 4 is Otsuka's, so that is on the opposite side of the Canary.
You have the food mart right on the corner and then you have other industrial and commercial
businesses here, there are 3 acres of open space behind, this whole section. The nearest
residence is across the street about 100 feet away from the edge of the track.
So the track its self is going to be laid out in the corner of the existing parcel and it is
going to be outlined, we are going to do some recycling and use some of the rubber tires that are
on island already to make the barricades for the track which is a common application. You will
have carts that just stack on one side so when people are racing they will take it around and go
around the track. The track is about 600 feet in length and 20 feet wide. The other space we
identified is that control building and there is a little bit of warehouse space that they will use for
storage of the carts.
Mr. Costa: Jean, if I could just clarify, so the cabinet shop you alluded to is not part of
this application?
Ms. Camp: Correct. But we included the parking on that just to show that there is more
than sufficient parking on this property for that and other businesses that may come up as use in
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August 10, 2010
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the future. I just want to reiterate that this project is an allowable use for this zoning area so we
are not asking for any type of variance or anything beyond what it is already intended for.
Commercial recreation is one of the listed uses for this zoning. And as I said earlier without any
noise dampening efforts these carts are only 70 to 78 decibels right at the source. The Kauai
Community Noise Control Rules don't even cover vehicular noise and if they did and if we had
to stretch it, even by the time you get to the limits you are under 70 which is what they normally
would require for industrial zoning. That is all we would like to say at this point unless there are
any questions.
Chair: Jean, you alluded that the zoning is not required for use, it is outright permitted?
Is that what you said?
Mr. Costa: Actually the use she alluded to is listed as a use that can be permitted through
a Use Permit.
Chair: Any questions for the applicant?
Mr. Texeira: There are other uses proposed on this site, a church came to get approval
from the Planning Commission so how do you...a church site I assume will be very close to your
operation so how is that going to work out?
Ms. Camp: The owners of the property (inaudible) LLC are here and they may be
better ...I think the church decided not to take the space, is that correct? Janice and Russell
Boyer are here who are the owners of the property and the church opted not to take that space so
there won't be a conflict with the church.
Mr. Costa: I guess as a matter of housecleaning we will contact the church and ask them
to withdraw or cancel that particular permit.
Mr. Texeira: Have you considered other sites on the island?
Mr. Outzen: I haven't really found any other sites. This spot became available and we
are just in the process of seeing if this spot would work for the community or for Kauai.
Ms. Camp: Obviously sometimes people think you should just throw this out in a field
somewhere, well most of our fields are zoned Ag. so you are really looking for something that
has the appropriate zoning, is close to major arteries, is going to be something that people can get
to easily and so it actually turns out to be a pretty good site. Although we have been working
with a real estate agent who has been trying to locate other things and they really have not found
anything else that is appropriate and fits these needs so perfectly.
Mr. Texeira: I am concerned about the sound basically. So can you tell me about ...you
said it is 70 to 78 decibels. Is there a formula if you are 20 feet away, 40 feet away, to consider
what is the decibel at that rate?
Ms. Camp: I happen to have that answer if you can wait one second. I am not a noise
engineer but I am an engineer so I can do math. What I found, there is a formula for it which is
shown on this table and basically what I did was plot up the noise as it falls away with distance
because noise falls very quickly with distance. So if you were at zero or one foot, in red say at
78 decibels of the machine by the time you are 20 feet away you are already at 50 decibels. By
the time you are 100 feet away, the nearest house, you are below 40 decibels for one machine
with no noise dampening. That is just from me to you, a straight line.
What do decibels mean? Most people are like, is that a lot a noise or is that not a lot of
noise? A jet aircraft 50 meters away where a meter is 3 feet, 150 feet, is 140 decibels. A
chainsaw is 110 decibels about 3 feet away. A diesel truck 30 feet away is 90 decibels. When
you are next to a busy road at 15 feet you are at 80 decibels so the road is actually higher in noise
than these carts. A vacuum cleaner that is 3 feet away is 70 decibels; we are talking about a
vacuum cleaner sound. An as you get conversational speech its 60 decibels. So I think people
have a lot of fear over noise as we all do. Oh my, go carts, it is going to be really noisy. They do
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make different noises when they accelerate and decelerate, we have given you the maximum at
78 but you see how fast the noise drops off with distance. And like I said the closest house being
100 feet away you are at a very acceptable noise level. Does that help?
Mr. Texeira: Yes.
Mr. Blake: So is you have one go cart going around the track at its loudest point for the
neighbors it would be about 78 decibels.
Ms. Camp: Well not for the neighbors, it is only if you are standing right on top of it is
78. At 100 feet away it is less than 40, it is about 38 decibels.
Mr. Blake: And if you have 10 go carts going around...
Ms. Camp: How does it multiply? I don't have the answer to that and I couldn't find
that. And it changes because some are starting... you don't have 10 accelerating necessarily at
the same time at the same instance so you are going to have acceleration, deceleration, and
changes in noise volume. It is not a multiple ...you don't multiply it 10 times. It is louder but
not 10 times the volume.
Mr. Blake: You wouldn't happen to have one in the parking lot would you?
Ms. Camp: The example that John had and we ran some tests and had the community
meeting, this is why you see people here today. He wanted to show them what it was like. It is
not one that has got the converters, the model was about 85, almost 90 decibels, almost 10
decibels higher than the carts that he is going to buy. People were standing adjacent to the road;
one went home across the street to say I can still hear it. Well I would expect you can hear it, 40
decibels you are going to hear. That is how noise works, with nothing there, with no traffic, with
no dampening of anything. So I am sorry I can't answer, I tried to find that but I couldn't find
the answer to that question.
Mr. Blake: Because when I read the application I think all of the reasons sounded good,
it provides activity, something for young people to do, it is in an area where there is a
concentration of people but what kept occurring to me was the noise. And even if you live right
next to...right on Kawaihau Road there is noise and then there is noise. You have one car going
by, four cars going by intermittently and then you have a lot of cars for a long amount of time,
they are all coming out of church or something like that. And so to me one of the things that we
try to preserve and this has come up with regard to windmills and transient vacation rentals and
so forth is the peace and tranquility of your neighborhood. And like I said as I read through the
application everything that was positive in the application, for me, was stacked up against the
continuing peace and tranquility of the neighborhood and that was my main concern.
Ms. Camp: The applicant is aware of that and certainly sensitive to that issue. I kind of
smiled because when we met with the community, do you want to live near a track... limited
industrial has no-the cars and the trucks that were there before actually with the lumber
business were pretty noisy. They were higher in volume of noise than these carts are. So we do
want to address the noise issue with you but I think we would like to hear public comments
because we have some ideas ...now again this was without any dampening, without doing
anything, the application as presented, this is what you've got. So why don't we listen to public
comments, you will hear complaints about noise I am sure and that will give us a chance, we
have talked about some things we might be able to do to help that situation and make that
acceptable to you and to the community.
Mr. Blake: So the dampening would occur within each vehicle its self or from the track?
Ms. Camp: We probably would not address the individual cars but there is a way you can
actually dampen noise leaving that site in that area.
Mr. Blake: And are you ready to tell us?
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August 10, 2010
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Ms. Camp: Yes I can. A simple solution and it works very effectively are things like
putting in a bunch of bushy shrubs or palms, Eureka Palms, right along the fence. It takes the
noise right down, visual protection, soft surface. We don't want to put up something too dense
as a noise barrier because then it can bounce sound in other directions. So that is one of the
solutions that we are certainly welcome to look at and do.
Mr. Outzen: The tire barrier its self that lays out the track will absorb a lot of the sound
and we can put up a sound barrier on the existing fence. I have researched that, they make a lot
of different sound barriers that can absorb the sound. So between that and the bushes and the tire
barrier, the tires would actually stack up almost as tall as the carts so they would absorb a lot of
the sound right there. I think it could be way quieter than people can imagine what it might be. I
know it will be way quieter than that.
Mr. Blake: Coming from the resident's standpoint I think a problem is that you install a
track and you keep your fingers crossed that the noise is going to be at an acceptable level but if
it isn't then what happens? Do you have less cars or do you take the track away or put up more
trees or double the size of the width and height of your tire barrier?
Mr. Outzen: I guess we would just have to keep working on that solution until it was at
an acceptable level. I don't know how to answer that except...
Ms. Camp: You do the proven things which are basically putting in foliage, noise
buffering systems and things like the rubber tires. And like I said you have to look ...that is why
I put some science up there, you have to look at the numbers, 40 decibels is less than our
conversational volume for a cart at the distance that people are talking about the nearest house.
And then you have the house and the house is walls and the inside of the house, I mean everyone
else is further away where you are getting into very low levels. So I think there is more fear than
reality in some of this noise ...I mean we all worry about go carts because we have seen go carts
from the past and how noisy they can be if they are not new technology. These are slick, indoor
new technology cars. These are different; they made them quieter so that people can use them
indoors.
Chair: So if the 10 times the noise level won't work, 5 times the noise level would be
like 200 decibels?
Ms. Camp: So you are telling me 10 carts are higher than a jet plane taking off and I just
don't believe it. That is ear-deafening, ear-busting noise. That is not possible.
Mr. Nishida: But you already testified you are not a sound person and you don't know
how to calculate the... actually I am like Hartwell, what we see is not enough information to
make a decision in favor. And we see information that we have questions regarding so regarding
the sound issue ...that is the sound issue. My other question was ambiance of the insulation, the
whole operation. You have the cars going around... your market is what age group?
Mr. Outzen: Pretty much any age group. There will even be possibly a two-seater where
younger kids can ride around with their parents. Four feet tall you can ride in the junior cart and
five feet and above you can ride in the adult cart and anybody up to however old, it pretty much
covers the whole age group of people.
Mr. Nishida: What would the area look like not on the track? You have the cars parked
there, you have people waiting to go onto the track, what are the rules or operating... you will
have a tent there so they can sit underneath.
Mr. Outzen: There is a covered area right there with picnic tables right where you drive
in so there is a 1,000 foot entry building there for checking in and to wait and then the parking is
behind the track. You drive in the facility there and park in the back so there wouldn't be any
parking out front or anything.
Mr. Nishida: And you have one person watching the track?
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August 10, 2010
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Mr. Outzen: There will be at least two or three people on the track at all times watching
the cars. They will be remote controlled and be able to shut down automatically if there is a
problem or somebody is driving recklessly. The people will go around, you will slow everybody
down, they will pull into the pit lane, maybe five carts at a time, they would unload and if there
are more people to get in they would get back in and head out at the same time.
Mr. Nishida: This is a time kind of thing?
W. Outzen: This is a time thing, maybe it will be a 10 of 15 minute run, there will be
different times for...it will probably go for 10 or 15 minutes and then there will be 10 minutes
before the next group if there are even that many people there to do it the whole time. I am sure
it is going to be intermittent, there will be times when there won't be anybody there, there will be
times when there will be some people there hopefully.
Mr. Nishida: And the spectators, what would that look like?
Mr. Outzen: The spectators would be hanging in the covered area where there are picnic
tables right there. There are no bleachers or anything set up like that.
Mr. Nishida: No walls to the place?
Mr. Outzen: There are no walls around there is just the fence that goes between the road
and the track area so you would have to come inside the facility to actually hang out there and
see what is happening. Especially if we had shrubs and trees parked in front of it and a sound
deadening zone on the fence right there which I am sure we will have to do if you guys can
consider it. There will be room inside the area there to hang out and watch. If you pull in and
park your car in the parking area you could stand in that covered area and watch.
W. Nishida: What about like do you have any rules regarding if they want to turn their
car stereo's on and that kind of thing?
Mr. Outzen: Absolutely there will be rules. They will be inside the area for one thing,
nobody can park outside and blast their stereos and that will be against the rules you can't come
in there and generate more noise or create a disturbance. That won't be acceptable.
W. Nishida: So the loudest thing there will be the go carts.
Mr. Outzen: Absolutely, that will be the only thing there, making any noise.
Mr. Texeira: I have another question. Can you discuss your time of operation?
Ms. Camp: Right now the applicant has from 9am to 9pm, 7 days a week.
Mr. Texeira: Would you consider cutting back on those hours for example week days, in
the evenings, perhaps closing at 7 on the weekdays?
Ms. Camp: The applicant would be happy to consider that.
Ms. Matsumoto: I had the same question about why did you come up with the hours of
operation? What was your thinking?
W. Outzen: All over the mainland, all over the world actually they have these facilities
set up and in the evening time is a good time for families to come and do this after people are
home from school and work. So it is kind of an evening thing to do, especially where there is a
lot of facilities that are indoor. But I am totally willing to stop way sooner than that.
Ms. Camp: The things that John had told me originally which went into the application is
they were looking at some nonprofit activities which is why we had the weekends and some
nights because he was going to host some nonprofits so they could make some money out of this
venture as well. And most of those as you know people are working so for the ones on-island
they would like some of those other hours. For tourists the day time is nice because it gives them
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August 10, 2010
12
something to do during the day and not just go to the beach, what else is there, they have kids,
they want to do something. So we thought this was a good tourist activity so that is why you
have the daytime hours. The evening hours are more for families and some of the youth.
Weekend nights because as you all know our high school kids here and the younger kids don't
have anything to do and they are getting in trouble, they have nothing to turn to but drugs and
burglaries now so we would like to give them some alternate venues. And John is offering to
teach them how to do go cart repair and teaming with a cabinet business he was so excited about
it he is going to be teaching them beginning cabinet making skills too. So this can be a really
nice center for families and for kids to learn something positive. So that is how the hours were
developed.
Mr. Outzen: But it definitely could be cut back.
Chair: Any more questions, thank you Jean. I will open up the public hearing, I know
there is a lot of public testimony, if we could limit it to 3 minutes and if you could get to your
concise point. And if there is redundancy we would really appreciate it as a Commission if we
could just hear it a few times and not over and over. So with that said the first is Teri Quint.
Ms. Teri Quint: Good morning, my name is Teri Quint. I am a homeowner within 200
feet of the proposed race track. Please do not allow this go cart racing in our neighborhood.
There are other suitable locations than in the middle of a densely populated area. I realize it is
zoned commercial but there are many quiet businesses that could move in there like affordable
storage units for residents utilizing the large building for boats, equipment, vehicles, etc. Or
even a mini-golf course. I have also heard from people in the area that it would be good to have
something for the kids to do but I am told that each race could cost around 10 dollars for a 15
minute race. So 40 dollars an hour is expensive entertainment.
I have heard several opinions of just how loud a single go cart may be but putting that
aside my concern is the constant noise the go cart racing will create with up to 10 go carts racing
at one time, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. We will have no escape from the continuous noise.
And I ask you this; would you want or allow this next to your home? We hear the sirens from
down on the highway when they turn and travel up for 2 miles on Kawaihau Road but they pass
by, the go carts will not. I sometimes hear people talking outside and I look out to see if they are
in my driveway but I find them over on the sidewalk right next to where the proposed race track
will be. The sound carries. I bought a home full of jalousie window for fresh air and to let the
trade winds blow through. There will be no way of keeping the sound of the race track out. The
noise we hear now from the traffic on Kawaihau Road, the 10 go carts will race at 25 miles an
hour and that is also the speed limit on Kawaihau Road.
My parents are in their 80's. They spend a good part of their day outside on the patio
swing listening to the birds sing. They will only hear increased traffic, the go carts racing, and
the family and friends cheering on the racers and the louder cheers when they win and even the
intercom announcements if you allow this. My parents also go to be around 8pm at night and
how will they sleep with this kind of noise just across the street? Many of our neighbors are
retired and enjoy the serenity of our quiet neighborhood so please, do not allow our peace and
quiet to be destroyed. If you even remotely consider this proposal please come over and visit our
neighborhood first and picture this, you are sitting at your house on your lawn enjoying a
peaceful day off and your neighbor is mowing or weed whacking for 12 hours a day, 7 days a
week, thank you.
Mr. Jung: Next speaker is Gene Quint followed by Tom Thompson.
Ms. Morikami: I have a question.
Chair: Teri, one of the Commissioners...
Ms. Morikami: I just wanted to clarify that the land is not zoned Commercial, it is
Limited Industrial just for your information.
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August 10, 2010
13
Mr. Tom Thompson: Good morning, my name is Gene Quint and I am a homeowner and
I live directly across the street from the proposed go cart project on Kawaihau Road in Kapa'a
and I opposed it for several reasons. A project such as this should not be operated in the middle
of a residential district. Our homes are a place where we come to after a hard day's work for
some restful peace and quiet. Evenings and weeks are the times that such a project would most
likely be the busiest and those are the times when we most cherish our peace and quiet.
A letter to the forum in the Garden Island Newspaper on August 5a' from Russell Boyer
who has a vested interest in the project makes several comments that need to be addressed. He
states that three sound level tests have been conducted and the decibel level of the traffic was
greater than the go carts and the noise from the go carts would only add minimally to the noise
level that already exists. Let me say that adding to the present noise level at all is totally
unacceptable. Traffic noise is a necessary evil of a fairly busy street but adding to it by putting a
go cart track is not necessary. It also would seem that they expect us to believe that 2, 4, 6, or 10
cars racing at the same time which is being proposed is not going to generate any more noise
than one car. That is ridiculous. I have been to go cart races and I know how much noise they
generate.
For sound level tests to be meaningful they need to be conducted by a certified agency
that has no financial benefit to be gained by manipulating the way the test is done. Also, to be
meaningful and accurate it needs to be conducted over a period of several hours. When Mr.
Boyer says the noise level is only minimally higher than the traffic noise he is comparing the
sound level of the cart to a passing vehicle at its loudest while it is passing which only spans
about 2 seconds. The sound level of the approaching vehicle gets louder as it gets closer and
rapidly lowers after the vehicle passes. It may be several seconds or more before another vehicle
goes by. The track noise level would be pretty much steady for fairly long periods of time. For
this reason the traffic noise reading needs to be recorded on a chart and the highs and lows
average over a period of time and graphically compared to the constant noise that is generated by
the carts. If this is done I have no doubt that the go cart noise average over a period of time will
be much greater than the traffic noise.
All of this having been said, noise does not have to be extremely loud to be objectionable,
anyone who has had a bee or horse fly buzzing around their head knows how quickly the sound
becomes objectionable. It also says that loitering and loud noise from boom boxes and vehicle
radios will not be tolerated. That sounds good when you say it quick but I know from experience
that these things are rarely addressed unless and until the neighborhood gets fed up with it and
complains about it. At that point the damage is already been done. We have enough of that now
when vehicles fuel up at the Canary and leave their doors open with their stereos booming and
vibrating our windows. There is not a day that goes by now that someone doesn't bum rubber
and squeal their tires when they are leaving the Canary. A vehicle is out of control and
dangerous when doing that and I can't help but think that people who are inclined to do this will
do it even more when leaving a racing event. It seems that it is not being very well controlled
now, why would we expect it to change?
One other comment on the sound levels fading rapidly as with distance, that is only true
in dead air which is almost never the case up in that area. There is always the trade winds
blowing, we can hear noises from way away and sound is carried very well by wind. Anyone
downwind from whatever direction the wind happens to be blowing is going to be getting full
benefit of the full sound of that race track. There is no question about it. That can be verified. I
worked in the industrial environment around sound measurements for many years and that is
fact, sound travels with moving air. So please do not allow this to be put into the middle of our
peaceful neighborhood, thank you.
Chair: Any questions, next?
Mr. Jung: Next speaker, Ton Thompson followed by Kenneth Ponce.
Mr. Tom Thompson: Good morning, my name is Tom Thompson. I am a resident of this
island, have been for 8 years. Before coming here I was an attorney for 25 years in California,
for 3 years I sat as a Judge Per Diem in California. Since coming here I have been the broker in
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August 10, 2010
14
charge or principal broker for Koa Land and Property for Princeville Real Estate and Vacation
Rentals for Island Business Brokers and I go into that because that is part of my testimony. First
of all this really should be about keikis, not about money for the applicant. Is this really the
culture we want to perpetuate for our keikis? Learning how to drive on a hard surface, a race car
recklessly around in a circle? This is not Riverside, California, it is Kauai, we don't want to do
this, we really don't. Now back to money, property values. This is going to have a huge effect
on the property values of the homes in the area, not just the ones that are 100 feet away but I live
2 miles away across the valley. Keep in mind that this property is on a ridge, I live on the next
ridge over in Hauiki and I can hear and see traffic in this area of Kawaihau. If I go to sell my
house I have to disclose immediately that I get to hear for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week a go cart
track. That is going to cost me huge monies and hundreds and hundreds of other people as well.
We are talking about a huge hit in property equity is going to happen if you people approve this.
The decibel level, it is a red herring guys. It is not the 78 decibels or 50 decibels; it is the
duration and nature of the noise. Ms. Camp brings up a chain saw, okay, a chain saw revving up
and down and up and down for 12 hours a day times 10, think about that. And it doesn't matter
if maximum is 78 or 68 or 58 that is an irritant, a huge irritant. Now there is a growing body of
legal and scientific evidence that is making (inaudible) and that is the fact that noise it toxic to
one's body, it cause personal injury. Just the fact, did you know, that many counties throughout
the nation actually list in their zoning code go carts to be a nuisance per say. I guarantee you if
this is passed there is going to be litigation and the County is going to be a named defendant and
that is really silly. Again, this is affecting many properties, not just the ones 10 feet away. At a
time when this island is becoming green we certainly don't need to add any noise pollution at all
to this particular area. I don't believe the applicant responded to the question about have you
looked at other sites. This Commission is guided by health, peace, comfort and welfare guidance
standards and I can't possibly imagine that this project fits within that guidance.
Mr. Jung: Kenneth Ponce followed by Marielle Ponce.
Mr. Kenneth Ponce: Good morning Commissioners, thank you for allowing me to speak.
My name is Kenneth Ponce. I am opposed to the idea of the go cart race track at the old Kapahi
Canary site. We have property on (inaudible) Road, for the locals it is Skeleton Road. We are
situated approximately 3,000 feet west of the proposed site. We will be moving into our new
home soon. We bought this property because it is peaceful and quiet. It is a county setting. We
can hear the sounds of the recycling center from our property and we are 3,000 feet away coming
from the old Canary site. We can hear the bottles, we can hear the machinery. Can you imagine
what we would hear with go carts revving their engines 7 days a week, 12 hours a day? Please,
don't allow this. Last week I went to speak to Mr. Boyer about my concern about the noise level
and if he would consider electric go carts. He said it was too expensive and not feasible. He said
he didn't want any down time. He said he was going to do a sound test on Saturday and asked if
I could listen from my property. I gave him my cell number but he never called. I am still
waiting. Please remember Commissioners, this is a business that he is talking about. Several
days later I read Mr. Boyer's letter in the Garden Island, he talks about his concern for the youth
and opportunities for future generations. Please remember Commissioners, this is a business in
which he has a vested interest.
There are no motorized tracks near homes and subdivisions here on Kauai. They are all
out in isolated areas, Mand'a, Nukoli`i, out in the open areas in Anahola. Mr. Boyer, you said
you want to leave this beautiful place better than when you found it, please keep Kapa`a
Homesteads country. No more noise pollution, thank you Commissioners, are there any
questions?
Ms. Matsumoto: You mentioned down time, what did you mean by down time, there was
no down time?
Mr. Ponce: He just wanted continuous. He told me he didn't want any down time
because you would have to recharge the carts and they just wanted continuous. Can you imagine
12 hours a day, 7 days a week? I live in Kapa`a Town right now and I am going to be moving up
to my property very soon. I am getting away from the noise level, from the traffic. That is a
country setting, let's keep Kapa`a Homesteads country, no more noise, thank you.
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Mr. Nishida: Your question about the electric carts, if it was electric you wouldn't have a
problem with a go cart track?
Mr. Ponce: If it was electric and maybe it was indoors. I spoke to some ladies that have
lived there all their lives, Ms. Kutaka and her sister, they can hardly get out of their driveway and
they live right across the street. Talk about traffic and noise pollution, she told me I can't even
get out of my street. There were a couple of younger guys but they had to go to work, they were
going to testify against this proposed site but I mean look at these people, all they want is
serenity. Please don't allow this.
Chair: Thank you, next speaker.
Mr. Jung: Next speaker, Marielle Ponce, followed by Kathy Peters.
Ms. Marielle Ponce: Good morning, my name is Marielle Ponce. You have heard my
husband talk about where we live, where we will be living on (inaudible) Road. 3,000 feet, I
don't know if it would even fit on that board but I am not an engineer but I know when I hear the
bottles and I hear the machinery from the recycling center and you hear it, it is traveling. I
brought my children to a type of facility, I don't know exactly what kind of a go cart but it was a
go cart facility in California and it was located on a frontage road next to an 8-lane freeway.
And if the people that would like to do this are looking at doing something like this maybe they
could look at where these other places are located. That might give them an idea of how to go
about placement for this facility. I am asking you please don't allow this. This is where our
home where we are going to moving to where we hope to live the rest of our days. We chose
this site for its peace and its quiet and we hope for our children to be there with us also. And we
worked really hard for this, we would like to keep our peace.
Another thing when I drove by, I usually don't go down Kawaihau Road but when I
drove by there the other day I thought wow that is a great location for a number of other things.
Talk about leaving a future, I can't quite see future generations, I don't know I don't think about
inheriting a go cart track as being a bountiful thing for the future. In the Pacific News a couple
of weeks ago there was an article about people starting a landscaping supply business on an old
parking lot in Salt Lake. They started it last year and they have had to expand within one year. I
mean there are a lot of other things that you could do that would help the public and would not
be so noisy. So thank you and please don't allow this, thank you.
Chair: The next speaker is Kathy Peters.
Ms. Kathy Peters: Good morning, my name is Kathy Peters. I am the person who went
home and listened to the noise of the go cart test and I went home, sat on my couch, calmly
listened and I came back to the meeting and reported that it sounded like a chainsaw buzz. And
it was one go cart going very slowly because the movie people were still set up in the parking lot
and there was really no room for this go cart to let loose. I care very much about the people who
live in our community. The integrity and peace of our neighborhood is being compromised and I
hope that the signatures and letters of all of these folks will have an impact on the outcome of
this issue. I believe that Karen Whitsen is the next speaker and they asked me to read this letter
for them. I have taken out everything that is redundant.
Chair: What I would prefer is that you could submit it to us. Is that all your testimony?
Ms. Peters: That is all I have to say.
Chair: Thank you, next speaker.
Mr. Jung: The next speaker is Randie Peters.
Mr. Randie Peters: Good morning. I am Randie Peters. I live up in the community too.
I don't really have much to say other than I did a lot of walking around our community and got
to meet a lot of really cool, fantastic people that have lived in the community a lot longer than I
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16
have. I have been there 7 years and they are amazing people. The petitions that you have in
front of you should prove what they are trying to say, the ones that cannot be here because of
work, they thanked us very much for walking around and informing them that this is going on in
our neighborhood which they did not even know. Half the people did not even know. Back
here, the people that could make it here today are living proof, and in front of you, that we don't
want this in our neighborhood. We have too much going on now in our neighborhood. So
please take this into consideration that nothing against John and his business but it needs to go
elsewhere, thank you.
Mr. Jung: The next speaker is Victor Danda followed by Jim Mayfield.
Chair: Is Victor here? Seeing none, Jim.
Mr. Jim Mayfield: Aloha, my name is Jim Mayfield. I am here on behalf of the lessor
and the lessee. I am acting as the real estate broker on behalf of the lessee. As you might expect
I am here in support of the project. You have written testimony from me already, what I am
going to be focusing on is those portions of the written testimony which address specifically
questions which have already arisen from the Commission. One question I am hearing
repeatedly is this is not necessarily a bad idea, a bad business, it should be placed elsewhere. I
have heard that repeatedly and I heard it questioned from the Commission. This is not
something that is easy to locate anywhere that is economically viable. For this to be an
economically viable business you need the following attributes for the site, it needs to be about
two thirds of an acre to a full acre. It needs a large site because it is not just the track its self it is
the parking, it is the facility for the maintenance, usually there is a refreshment stand or
something to go with it. So you need a large site, about two thirds of an acre up to an acre site.
Secondly it must be a graded site already. Yes, there can be sites that can be graded at a
cost but you need a graded site. Third is it requires a very, very smooth surface, ideally concrete.
When we did the test run we actually had a vacuum mower getting rid of all the little tiny
pebbles just for safety reasons. It needs to be a very flat, ideally concrete surface. You need to
have standard bathrooms and certainly you need to have an ADA bathroom. You need to have
enclosed fencing; you need to have an enclosed workshop area to repair and work on different
vehicles. It needs to be a about 2,000 square feet, maybe 2,500 square feet. Also you need an
administration site; you need a place for people to check in. Ideally you want a refreshment
stand there and you need adequate parking.
So there are a number of requirements that are necessary to operate this as a successful,
profitable, business. So what I did is I have done a fairly extensive search looking for
something. I kept it within the Kapa`a to Lihu`e area because if you want to make it
economically viable you need to hit with the residential market and tourist market. If you go
past Kapa`a you are probably going to lose many of the residents on this side of the island and
vice versa, you are going to lose the Kapa`a people if you go out to Halfway Bridge or closer to
`Ele`ele. I did talk to one major landowner here and they have land, it is completely unimproved
but again they were concerned about going past 3 years because they might have other needs for
the property down the road. And the problem is if you are going to spend the money to create a
facility, to put in the bathrooms, to put in the concrete, to put in the building facility necessary to
repair it, you can't do that if you only have maybe a 3 year lease on a site. You need a long term
site if you are going to put in all these new facilities.
Two notes, I also was there when we had the community presentation. It is the parking
area, the fence, the road, the grass area on the right hand side and then the houses, I chose to be
as close to the houses as I could because I wanted to have a feel for what it's like to be a resident
on that side. I think I was the only person who chose to stand as close as possible to the houses
and I empathize with the residents, I didn't realize how much traffic Kawaihau Road gets. I
didn't realize how much in and out noise there is from the convenience store that is located
nearby. And certainly every time a car was pulling in or pulling out there was a lot of noise
being generated. What I noticed is that up until 7:30 when I left, it was a school night, it is very,
very busy and it is very, very noisy. When there is a car approaching or a car leaving the noise
from those cars is far more than the noise generated from the go carts. It is one thing to see
numbers up there, I think it is a better thing when you go up there and you experience it. I am
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17
pretty confident that certainly when cars are driving by the noise, the additional noise from the
go carts is really not going to be noticeable, the same thing with cars pulling in and out.
Chair: Jim can you wrap up please?
Mr. Mayfield: I am pau, if you have any questions, I thank you very much.
Chair: Are there any questions, if not the next speaker.
Mr. Jung: The next speaker is Ann Rogers DeAnda.
Chair: The next speaker if she is not here.
Mr. Jung: The next speaker is Phil Borchelt.
Chair: Not here.
Mr. Jung: Patrick Miler.
Mr. Patrick Kittler: Hello Council members.
Chair: Planning Commissioners.
Mr. Kittler: Commissioners, sorry. I did want to let you know that I actually watch you
folks quite a bit on the public channel and I see and really appreciate how much time that you
folks take in ensuring the quality of life stays as it is on the island. I spend a great deal of time
doing that and I have seen myself that even projects such as the wind projects that have been
voted down because of noise concerns. The thing that has struck me through listening, a lot of
what I had to say has been addressed and so would be redundant, chiefly that all this talk about
decibel level. Decibel level is sort of like light level, you can see it on a meter but really the
decibel level of white noise, the sound of a tire on the road which is really the majority of sound
that is generated by traffic is very, very different from the decibel level generated by like a
chainsaw or a mower running. So I just wanted to even though it has been mentioned to suggest
that that be studied more.
The thing that really strikes me the most is there is a great deal of lack of information.
My personal request would be that further studies be done on the environmental impact for
the...there was talk about the tests that were done. It is not clear to me whether, there are two
models here that they talk about, a small keiki model and a larger model. It is clear that the
larger model has a larger engine and I am wondering which one was used for the test. They also
suggested that or stated that they used a different go cart for the test and it measured 90 but they
stated 70. And so there are a lot of questions that are left in my head. I also have some things
that have not been addressed yet which I do wonder about which issues such as the exhaust from
the go carts are when they are going during times of low wind and the effect that might have on
especially keikis. I noticed many of the children have breathing issues on the island already.
And then about the storage and disposal of the used oil, the storage of the gasoline and oil and
the disposal of the used oil and the byproducts, often times these go carts require a lot of
maintenance and may times once these things are improved they get into the habit of just hosing
it off. I know that everyone here cares about our island and so I guess my biggest request would
be that more study be done and that a little bit more could be taken to study the noise, study the
things like exhaust and I thank you for your time.
Chair: How many more?
Mr. Jung: Seven speakers Chair.
Chair: If there are any new speakers I just wanted to let you guys know that the
Commission will be taking a brief lunch break so we will go through these 7 speakers and then
any new speakers we will take after lunch.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
IS
Mr. Jung: The next speaker is Joe Abramo followed by Thomas Beebe.
Mr. Joe Abramo: Good morning. I am here as a friend of John and when he told me
about his idea for the carts I was totally in support of it. And I think the activity, my name is Joe
Abramo, I am a businessman on the North Shore. Anyway, I feel that taking advantage of the
Limited Industrial area for this use is a pretty good use if we can keep the noise down. It will
give the kids on Kauai a little extra something to do, something we don't have right now. As
we know all the activities are fairly limited here on Kauai for opportunity to do stuff like this.
So that is all I have to say. I am in support of it and hopefully you guys will give it good
consideration, thank you.
Mr. Jung: Next speaker, Thomas Beebe followed by Russell Boyer.
Mr. Thomas Beebe: Aloha, my name is Thomas Beebe. Good late morning Planning
Commissioners, thanks for considering this. I am here to voice my feelings of support for this
project. I have 3 young children and am constantly facing the challenges of what are the best
ways I can direct their energies and attentions and productive things that I feel are going to be
useful to them and help keep them out of trouble, ways that my family can do things together.
And when I heard about this project I got excited as a great opportunity, it seems like it could be
a great resource for my family and many others. I too empathize with the residential community
around this area and their concerns about noise and I don't think anybody wants this project to
go forward if people are going to be suffering from noise. But I think that people should really
consider how effective sound dampening can be.
My property, when I first moved into the house with my family we had a lot of neighbor
noises and traffic noises that with layers of plants have effectively gone away. There are a lot of
different plants, banana plants as mentioned earlier, Eureka plants, in addition to the tires. I
think people understandably have big fears about this but I believe there are great possibilities
that can be achieved by people trying really hard to contain the noise whether it is windy or not.
You create a sound zone where the wind doesn't blow through and effectively keep that sound
from carrying and keep it within the area. So thanks, I know you have a difficult chore or
difficult duty and I thank you for your consideration and I hope you will consider approving this
project.
Mr. Jung: The next speaker is Russell Boyer.
Mr. Boyer: Good morning. I think it is morning or good day. I am Russ Boyer, I am the
proprietor of the new Canary and I want to address a couple of points that perhaps haven't been
made yet and one is the uses that that area has had in the past compared to what John is
proposing. For many, many years some of the older residents will remember it as a commercial
canary. There is a bit of noise attached to that. Afterwards it was a commercial area that housed
a cabinet operation, a lumber operation and when we purchased the property we brought in an
active lumber operation. There were in fact diesel trucks with their beepers going at 6:30 in the
morning and there was traffic coming in and out, there were forklifts, there were piles of lumber
being rattled around. I can say because I was involved in that business that I was sometimes a bit
concerned about the neighbors and the sound that we were creating. And I think that sound was
perhaps a bit more intrusive than what we are talking about here.
We are in a Light Industrial area and some of the uses that have been talked about here
would be nice, a landscape, quiet things, but we also have had people come in and want to do
heavy equipment maintenance and that sort of thing. In fact one of the uses that would probably
be going right where the track is should it be turned down would be that type of heavy activity. I
think it would probably be as noisy if not more so than what we are talking about here. I don't
want to say anything except I appreciate the concerns of the neighborhood. I have lived on this
island a long time and I have grand kids and great grand kids that are going to be living here for
a lot longer. There is no way that we want to create something in this neighborhood that is going
to be perceived negatively however I think that some of the concerns might be a little bit
overrated. And I think that this noise issue and that seems to be the main issue here, can be dealt
with and will be dealt with, thank you.
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August 10, 2010
19
Mr. Jung: Next speaker is Chad Rausch followed by Gerry Johnson.
Mr. Chad Rausch: Good afternoon Commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to
speak as a proponent of this proposal. I also have 3 young kids and the idea of having another
entertainment option for them is exciting to me. Also having the element of having the auto shop
for young kids is very appealing. As been stated before I think we don't really have a lot of
vocational type training on this island and I think that could go a long way. I am not going to get
too involved in the noise issues. I know that as a patron to 3 different lumber companies though
over the course of a number of years there has been a lot of noise there in the past and I think
some of these homeowners bought the property when those businesses were going on.
I would also like to quickly say that I have known Jay as we affectionately call him for a
long time and he is a good tradesman, he is very conscientious, he has a keen attention to detail
and I don't think he would do anything that would be any kind of a detriment to the community
or anything that would go the wrong way. That is all I have to say, thank you.
Mr. Jung: Next speaker is Gerry Johnson followed by Ann Punohu.
Mr. Gerry Johnson: My name is Gerry Johnson. I am a Kilauea resident for 20 years and
I have known Jay for a long time. And I would just like to comment on further what Chad said
about Jay's attentions. I have known him for a long time, he has had this dream for 10 years so I
just want to address how I feel that bringing up another activity for the kids, for families, is really
good for the community. I have been involved in my community and we all talk about things we
want to do for the kids and so I feel this is going to be a good thing. And I do just want to give a
character reference that there could be no finer person I think who would run this type of
business so to find some balance between the community I think he would take great care in
showing respect for the neighbors and for the surrounding area if this could be the place. So I am
in favor of this project, thank you for your time.
Mr. Jung: The next speaker is Ann Punohu followed by Bruno Ewald.
Ms. Ann Punohu: Aloha, my name is Ann Punohu. I have known the Boyer family for
decades. They have given to this community above and beyond what most people have. They
are a Kama`aina family with children. When I heard about this project I thought it was fantastic.
I used to live on Kawaihau Road. It is a freeway. Don't come and tell me that it is a quiet,
peaceful, garden type retirement community because it is not. I have a lot of old aunties that
used to work at the Canary and believe me that was a noisy place. It was used as a lumber
facility as you heard so there was a lot of noise.
Historically this has been an area where there has been a lot of noise. So I think that this
group, maybe the type of people, whatever you want to put in there, was for local families they
may have an issue with that. I mean personally I would like to see a skateboard park there and I
am sure they wouldn't like that either. I am sure that anything that was proposed that would
bring more local families into the area and create kind of a different kind of an ambiance for
them will disturb them. However I feel that that kind of an attitude here on Kauai really isn't
the kind of `Ghana kind of all together pili aloha feeling that we need to have here. Our children
have another activity that they could be doing in their neighborhood that would be very quiet
called burglary, called breaking and entering, called going into people's cars, called doing drugs,
called getting drunk. Yes, that is a very quiet activity compared to a go cart facility. Personally I
would rather see a go cart facility, mahalo.
Mr. Jung: Bruno Ewald.
Mr. Bruno Ewald: Good day, my name is Bruno Ewald. I am friends with Jay and I have
been on Kauai for 20 years and I have been teaching kids for 20 years on Kauai, ever since I
got here, and young adults and adults and old people the martial art of Jujitsu. So I am very
concerned with what is there for the kids to do on Kauai. I am always trying to recruit them to
come to my place and learn Jujitsu so I can teach them life skills, how to stay away from drugs
and stuff like that. So when Jay told me about this project I immediately thought I am going to
take my kids there, I have 2 boys that I am now concerned about them doing drugs and getting
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
20
into trouble. So I think having another activity for them to do that I can take them and their
friends and other kids in the community will be able to take advantage of this activity.
I do sympathize with the neighborhood and I am also concerned about anything that goes
on in my neighborhood but I am extremely in favor of anything that is going to bring kids to any
activity that is going to keep them away from trouble. And I think that is going to be a good way
to add to people like me that are trying to make this place a better place and keeping the kids
away from the streets and drugs and stuff like that. I ask you guys to like the gentleman said
earlier, do your studies and make sure that if you can get the place over there it would be a good
thing for the community and hopefully all the neighbors and everybody will be happy and agree
with that later on. Thank you for listening, you guys are doing a good job, thank you.
Chair: With that said we have exhausted the speaker list and we will reconvene in 45
minutes after our lunch break.
Commission recessed for lunch at 12:04 p.m.
Meeting was called back to order at 1:57 p.m.
Chair: Can I get a show of hands how many more people would like to speak? If one of
you would like to come up and speak first then we can get started.
Mr. Adam Ort: Good afternoon, Adam Ort. There are a few points that I wanted to
make, one of them is there are a lot of people that came and spoke on behalf of the applicant
which I appreciate, a lot of them saying how good a guy he was which no one has ever really
made a point that he wasn't a good guy. And the one thing that I did notice is a lot of them were
from Kilauea or the North Shore which I am certain that if you tried to put something like this in
their neighborhood in Kl11auea there would be a line out that would take probably two days of
public testimony.
Chair: Adam, we don't want to argue on what public testimony ...if it is public it is
public, no matter.
Mr. Ort: I understand.
Chair: We are not here asking you where you live and how far you live.
Mr. Ort: I understand. One thing that was a little bit shocking to me was that when we
had the study of noise that we didn't really get what the impact of more than one go cart coming
around the track is. And the fact that we are left to speculate what the noise level is going to be
and the consultant didn't come with the information. I lived on the mainland, grew up on the
mainland, grew up actually near a go cart track and the noise was one thing but I think what was
even worse was what happened after they were done driving. We are talking about someone said
this is going to help keep our kids off drugs, this is going to help keep our kids off alcohol, this is
going to give them something to do so they don't do all those things. If anyone has ever been by
a go cart track after you have 14, 15, 16 year old boys that their testosterone is even going more
crazy now because they just were in these go carts racing against each other and now what is
going to happen is they are going to pull out onto a two-lane road which there is a lot of traffic
anyway and just have their adrenaline going. And what is the impact that is going to be on the
neighborhood then? What is the impact that is going to be on the traffic flow then?
The amount of speeding and everything that is going to happen after they leave there,
who is going to be patrolling in the parking lot making sure there is no underage drinking going
on? It is almost as if this was being promoted by some of the people that this is going to save our
island from drug use and I find that absolutely appalling. I think that tubing is a great activity. I
think zip lining is a great activity. I think all those things are great activities but I can't afford to
take my kids there, I have 3 kids, I can't afford to take them there. We are talking about and I
don't know the exacts of how much 10 dollars a ride or something like that. It sounds great on
paper that we are all going to bring our kids there but at the end of the day can we all afford to
continue to bring our kids there? Maybe once a month, twice a month, as a birthday present, as
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
21
a birthday party or something like that but I find it hard to believe that this is a savior of all of
those things, these bad things that some of the people have presented and that we are going to be
able to afford to bring our kids there continually, thank you.
Mr. Ken Taylor: Chair, members of the Commission my name is Ken Taylor. You have
hear a lot of good comments today from the neighborhood and I think you should listen carefully
to what they all had to say. This is a good project but it is a good project being looked at in the
wrong place. You know as well as I that if you were developing a community today there would
not be an industrial property in the middle of a residential neighborhood. It is there because it
was there long before most of the houses were there and so yes it is a use that can be considered
but it doesn't have to be granted. And I think under the circumstances and what you have heard
today and when you look at it is not just the noise of what is being generated there but the
cumulative impact that gets piled on top of the noise that is already there. And I don't think that
any one of you would want this is your neighborhood and I think the idea again, as I said, it is a
good idea but it needs to be out in either a heavy industrial park area or further out where it is
away from residential property. So I hope as you deliberate and move forward with this that you
will deny this application, thank you.
Chair: Is there anybody else that would like to testify on this agenda item? I will bring
the meeting back to order, Commissioners, this is a public hearing so we could close the public
hearing.
Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, move that we close the public hearing.
Mr. Texeira: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye, motion carries.
On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Herman Texeira, to close the
public hearing, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Chair: Being that we have a recommendation, with all this does the Commission want to
act upon this today or defer item? Well not defer the item but I could move to the next agenda
item or if there is anybody who wants to take action today.
Mr. Costa: I think the department would ask if we could compile the information
received.
Chair: Is that the pleasure of the Commission?
Mr. Blake: I would like to make two comments. My impression today after listening to
the testimony is that more people who do not live in the surrounding subdivision want this
project than people who do live in the subdivision or close to it or actually quite a distance from
it. But within hearing range of activities that go on there now or used to go on there. And then
in the preliminary evaluation, item No. 3, it says that use permits may be granted only if the
Planning Commission finds that the use is compatible and not detrimental to health, safety,
peace, morals, comfort, and general welfare. It doesn't say legal, it says compatible. And so the
other thing that occurs to me is whether the proposed use will maintain, improve, or degrade the
quality of life, vis-a-vis, compatibility in that area.
The primary concern is noise followed by traffic and all of the, except for what the
applicant offered by way of noise attenuation devices, except for that I haven't heard anything
else that is convincing as far as how you are going to maintain the peace, tranquility and serenity
of the what is there right now. And to me the fact that there may have been other uses on the
property that were intermittently louder than may be the case now is not an excuse to impose
more noise there. I think otherwise I thought that the application made some excellent points
about why a go cart facility would be beneficial to the island but I didn't see anything that made
it beneficial to this specific site. And that is what concerns me. So if we defer this for further
study or more information to be provided by the applicant that is what I would like to see the
applicant address.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
22
Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, I have a question for Kaaina, does the Planning Department or
the Planning staff have any information on electric go carts as far as the difference between
noise, electric versus gas?
Staff: The applicant has proposed I believe a fuel go cart right now which I believe is a
gas powered go cart. The department can look into the differences concerning noise for an
electric versus a gas powered go cart and get that information to the Commission.
Ms. Morikami: One of the people testifying mentioned that electric carts may be the way
to go and he is basically opposed to the gas cart so I was just wondering if we knew the
difference in noise, electric cart versus gas cart.
Staff: That can be researched.
Chair: If I could add to that is that maybe we wouldn't put that burden on our planner
and his time and maybe we could put that burden out to the applicant to provide us that
information being that the burden of proof is for them to provide us, the Commission and the
community, of what the feasibilities are. If you want to comment I can suspend the rules, let me
suspend the rules and have the applicant back up. Jean, you wouldn't have any objection in
providing us that information would you?
Ms. Camp: No, we can certainly get a hold of some noise levels from manufacturers for
the electric carts. But I think as the applicant, my client said earlier, some of it was obviously
cost driven and that is why he didn't just start with the electric carts. One of the other reasons I
couldn't get more noise information to you is to do an accurate sound study you obviously need
to do sound tests with the carts that you are going to have and the applicant hasn't gone out to
buy them until they have a permit. It is a big expense to go buy these carts and then you want to
have one cart, two carts, five carts, run them and see at the different levels and different distances
with the right sound person to do this. It is already costing a lot of money just to get through this
process. He is trying to be able to do this project so we would be happy to provide electric
information for you.
Can I also say that the applicant was interested in certainly doing the landscaping buffers
on the Kawaihau Road side to deaden sound as well as right on the other side of the track we
were talking during the break, the Boyers had a good suggestion of putting pots there with plants
as well, different levels of landscape to help buffer the other side. So I think you will find that
quite a good means to help bring the sound level down to something that would be acceptable to
everybody since noise seems to be one of the major things. The other thing is as I said my
applicant really does not want to upset the community. He would be willing to cut the hours of
operation back on Sunday through Thursday to 7pm although we would like the option to run
until 9 on Saturday and Sunday, keep the hours 9 to 9 on Saturday and Sunday. That means that
at night when people need the quiet time and they are home the carts are not running at all so I
think that will also help.
Staff: Just a clarification Jean, on Saturdays and Sundays or Fridays and Saturdays?
Ms. Camp: I am sorry, Fridays and Saturdays until 9 and Sunday through Thursday to 7.
Chair: With all the information that you have gotten, copies of the public testimony,
since today is not a decision making day I think in your next presentation that you have that you
hit all the high points and the major points on the sound. And if you want to do landscaping
plans that is fine and the Commission can deliberate on those issues if enough or not enough.
Ms. Camp: Just a question for the Commission, we also received another 80 letters in
support today so there are over 250 positive letters. We can distribute those or you had it in the
transmittal that it was there they just weren't copied. They were of a similar format to the ones
you have already received.
Chair: Any more questions for the applicant?
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
23
Ms. Matsumoto: When you do your future presentation on your landscaping proposal,
someone earlier today said something about how he planted banana trees and things in the area
so I want to know how thick a vegetation you need in order for sound to impact and decrease the
passage of sound. Because truthfully most of us know about gardening and one palm tree or
even one small row of palm trees is not going to kill the sound.
Ms. Camp: Right, there would have to be levels. To give you an exact decibel
measurement, I don't know if I could do that but I can tell you that we will show a landscaping
plan that is dense and thick so that you have a physical barrier that noise cannot get through. I
mean you don't want sparse, obviously, sparseness is not what you are shooting for.
Ms. Matsumoto: And then also I don't know if I read about this in your application about
the storage of your fuel and other supplies. How much fuel does each vehicle take, for example,
and how much will you need to...
Ms. Camp: The fuel its self, you know where we are is right in front of the gas station so
the gas for the carts is coming directly from there so there is not going to be any storage for that
type of fuel on site. All the oil is going to be recycled that would be taken off and I don't know
how much the carts contain but maybe Jay can answer.
Mr. Outzen: They might burn a gallon or two a day at the most and maybe change the oil
once a week, a quart of oil which would all be recycled. And like Jean was saying since we have
a gas station right there on the same facility there won't be any need to store a lot of gas or
anything. We can pretty much deal with that all right there.
Chair: Any more questions for the applicant? I will bring the meeting back to order, any
more discussion before I move to the next agenda item?
Mr. Nishida: This particular use, Limited Industrial has allowable uses, is this outside of
the allowable use category?
Staff: It is outside the generally permitted allowable uses. It is listed as permitted with a
Use Permit for which as earlier presented the Use Permit standards.
Mr. Nishida: And then this particular industrial area, my family grew pineapples so I am
real familiar with that particular site so the pineapple canary was still in operation at the start of
the General Plan but I don't know about the CZO. It sounds like this Limited Industrial was at
that time.
Staff: As was brought up by another member of the public as well the zoning is Limited
Industrial and the Residential zoning is relatively close to that Limited Industrial center which
isn't a general practice of zoning in general. In fact you would have a buffer generally from the
Limited Industrial to the Residential however this particular zoning spawned because of the fact
that the canary and the industrial operations were in affect prior to the zoning ordinance. And
the residential area actually sprung up not so much after but in conjunction with the canary
operations.
Mr. Nishida: It was all on old pineapple land so all the houses came up after the canary
closed. And then Limited Industri al as apposed to, what was the other?
Mr. Costa: General Industrial.
Mr. Nishida: And what are the big differences between the two?
Mr. Costa: I can respond to that. Typically Limited Industrial is similar to
Neighborhood Commercial and the difference between Neighborhood Commercial and General
Commercial in that it is usually located near a residential area. And so the number of uses that
are allowed are somewhat limited compared to and usually include less obtrusive type uses. For
instance I believe Limited Industrial here would not allow for instance auto repair or that kind of
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
24
thing that is allowed in General Industrial and a little noisier and greater impacts to surrounding
properties.
Mr. Nishida: So would a lumber yard be under the generally permitted or would it be
under a special permit?
Staff: I am going to defer that to the County Attorney who is actually looking at the code
right now.
Mr. Jung: There are 20 different listed generally permitted uses. I don't know if want us
to go through all of them.
W. Nishida: It's not going to take long. I just wanted to get an idea. You can go
through like 10 of them. I just wanted to get an idea of what level of Limited Industrial is
generally permitted.
Mr. Jung: This is in the Industrial District, right, and there is two types, Limited and
General and one is "Accessories, as in structures, animal hospitals, automobile services and
sales, repair and storage, cemeteries, mortuaries, and crematories, communication facilities,
construction material storage, food processing and packaging, light manufacturing,
manufacturing and retail sales, private and public utility facilities, public parks and monuments,
research and development, restaurants, bars and food services, retail sales, and warehouses."
And now this is the General Industrial and you have essentially the same items in the General
Industrial but in terms of uses that require a Use Permit you have botanic and zoological gardens,
commercial recreation, parks, construction material manufacturing, diversified Ag., factories,
junkyards and dumps, livestock and poultry yards, museums, libraries and public services and
offices, profession buildings, project development in accordance with Article 19 of this Chapter,
single family dwellings, and any other use or structure which the Planning Director finds to be
similar in nature to those listed in the section and appropriate to the Director."
Chair: Any more information that we want (inaudible) the planner or the applicant for
our next meeting that they should provide? Seeing none then there was a motion to close the
public hearing and if there is no more discussion I will move to the next agenda item.
NEW BUSINESS
Chair: If I could get a motion for F.l.b for the Go Karts, a motion to defer.
Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, move that we on item F.Lb, move that we defer this item
today.
W. Kimura: Second.
Chair: All those in favor say aye, motion carries.
On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Jan Kimura, to defer agenda
item F.La, Go Karts Kauai, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Mr. Texeira: Mr. Chair, we are going to defer this item until when?
Chair: We didn't set a date but the staff will take care of that.
For Acceptance into Record - Director's Report(s) for Project(s) Scheduled for
Public Hearing on 8/24/10.
Use Permit U-2011-1 Class W Zoning Permit Z-IV-2011-1 and Slecial Management
Area Use Permit SMA(U)-201 1 -1 to permit construction of a new single family residence,
accessory agricultural storage and office structures development of irrigation well, accessory
photovoltaic installation demolition of structure and archeological restoration of historical
auwai rock walls and terraces in Open-Special Treatment District (O/ST-R) in Kahili Ahupuaa,
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
25
located in Kilauea, approx. 1,700 sq. ft. from Kahili Makai Road and 2,700 ft. from the
intersection of Kahili Makai Road and Kuhi `6 Highway, further identified as Tax Map Key 5-2-
012:019 & 5-2-021:041: 0001 (por.) and containing approx. 18.164 acres = Hendrikus Group,
Inc.
Use Permit U-2011-2 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2011-2 to permit a bus stop in
Open-Special Treatment (O/ST-R) on Kuhi`6 Highway at the intersection of Kou Street, in
Kapa`a, further identified as Tax Map Key 4-5-012:015, and containing a total area of .826 acres
= County of Kaua `i, Transportation Akency.
On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Jan Kimura, to accept
Director's Reports into record, motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
For Acceptance and Finalization - Director's Report for Shoreline Setback Activity
Determination. (NONE).
Commission recessed at 1:22 p.m.
Meeting was called back to order at 1:25 p.m.
Chair: We do have a tabled item on item D.1 for TVNC-1078, at TMK: 5-8-009, James
Christiansen. Imai is there anything you want to add?
Mr. Ain: Not at this time.
Mr. Gerry Kaluna: I have two parts to me, one is the professional which is the easy one,
the other is my Kupuna puna approach to problems. I was thinking I would go through the
Kupuna approach and tell you about all the things that happened because I know personally
some of it was not true. So I have one question for you, what do you want me to give you today?
Chair: I would like you to state your name first.
Mr. Kaluna: My name is Jeremiah Makaho Kaluna, former County Engineer, County of
Kauai for a long, long time. I have a tremendous amount of experience. When I met this
gentleman he touched my Kauai heart so I met with him for dinner and he told me his story and
from there I got involved. And for your general information since the beginning of time when I
say you I mean the County, has been informed that I represented him. But for some reason
beyond my control, I was so lucky you never asked me to come here at all. Basically that is the
background. But I am the one that started, just to bring you up to date, I did all of the
processing. I don't want to impress you. All of these things are things that we filled out from
the beginning so that we qualified etc. and all the affidavits I have for all of the systems that we
disagreed with you etc.
As you know this started way back in 1996, he has lived in there since then, he has had
the Hawaiian community to support him when they have luaus on weekends or Christmas. He
has some of this background. That is the kind of stuff that touched my heart and what makes me
stop and think. But anyway I am here today just to ask you one simple question, what do you,
Mr. Chair, want from me today? And I can just give it to you in a minute and I think we will
resolve.
Chair: Let me ask my fellow Commissioners is there anybody that would like to ask the
applicant or the representative a question?
Mr. Kimura: I have a question. What is your reason for not showing up at the meeting
with the inspectors when you guys had a date at the shopping center, Princeville Shopping
Center?
Mr. Kaluna: Never heard of that. I deal in communication. There has been no
communication at all. For all of the things that you discussed in the last meeting you are asking
again today, there was never any contact with me.
Planning commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
26
Mr. Kimura: Can I direct my question to the planner?
Chair: Sure.
Mr. Kimura: Imai, did they or did they not have a scheduled meeting at Princeville
Shopping Center?
Mr. Ain: The meeting at Princeville Shopping Center was I believe scheduled with Jane
Abramo who did not show up.
Mr. Kimura: Was she representing the applicant?
Mr. Ain: Yes she was at the time. She was the designated contact.
Mr. Kimura: Is she still the contact for the applicant?
Mr. Aiu: Mr. Kaluna is the representative for the applicant.
Mr. Kimura: So they changed?
Mr. Ain: I believe she was schedule to meet and provide a key to the property and
provide escort onto the property.
W. Kimura: That is not what I was told at the last meeting.
Chair: In the report there are a few cancelled times but mainly the point we are trying to
make is the meeting at Princeville.
Mr. Kimura: My concern is that the inspectors went out to meet with the representative
of the applicant...
Mr. Kaluna: (Inaudible), no one put it in writing or contacted me officially because I deal
in protocol, nothing, okay? Now you can talk.
W. Kimura: Imai, was W. Kaluna ever notified about that meeting?
Mr. Ain: I believe that one was scheduled with Jane Abramo but hold on while I get the
details.
Mr. Costa: I do want to point out some information. I believe prior to any of the
requested inspections or meetings that you are referring to when it did come down to the
department meeting to do an inspection I know Mr. Kaluna did come and see me and actually
gave me the key to that particular unit and asked that that be given to the inspectors. There was
some concern over us being responsible for that key and we subsequently returned the key which
led to some of those subsequent dates being requested. I am just saying that for full disclosure
that I think he did make it available to us early on but in the way that he did that I think we didn't
feel comfortable in being responsible for having the key number one, and not having a
representative accompany staff to do the inspection so that that wouldn't lead to any... if
anything was missing or anything like that. I believe staff was just concerned about doing an
inspection without a representative. And I just bring that us because I would be remiss if I didn't
at least mention that initial effort.
Mr. Jung: Also Commissioners, I would want you guys to specifically look at the
standards a transient vacation rental nonconforming use certificate can be issued. And those
standards are listed on 8-1'7.10.c, which is whether or not there was a previous existing use
evidenced by other GE tax, TAT taxes paid, as well as logs of the prior usage by the TVR
operator and guest logs and whatnot. So I know the issue here is more or less why someone
didn't show for a particular meeting time with the inspectors, which to us is of course a good
concern because people should hold to their appointments. But I think we could go back and
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
27
forth in terms of what side of the story is the true side of the story so I think you should look
specifically at the facts of what is presented as to whether or not his use had been properly
established prior to the March 7, 2008 deadline for a single family TVR outside the visitor
destination area.
Mr. Nishida: The lack of inspection was the reason why the permit was denied? This
permit was denied at one point or couldn't be processed?
Mr. Aiu: It couldn't be processed so once it hit March 30th the permit was considered
denied.
Mr. Nishida: So in dealing with these permits that is why it is back in here because
subsequent to that there were inspections and there was confirmation to the...
Mr. Aiu: Yes.
Mr. Nishida: So this particular permit includes, the file includes GE tax forms, State tax
returns and visitor logs.
Mr. Ain: Yes. Confirmed the visitor logs but it does say the GE and TAT licenses, it
does contain filings for the TAT and filings for the GE.
Mr. Kimura: I notice here that the plans are stamped by Mr. Kaluna, 7/28/10. Wasn't the
plan supposed to be stamped March 30, 2008?
Mr. Costa: I think I touched on this the last time but the as-built plans, it was not in the
ordinance, it was more of a department procedural recommendation that they provide an as-built
plan stamped by an architectural engineer. That was really to help facilitate our inspections and
review so again I believe the plans were submitted with the initial application, for one reason or
the other the copy submitted was not stamped. But again it was not a requirement of the
ordinance.
Mr. Kimura: Can you give me the reason why it took two years?
Mr. Kaluna: What happened (inaudible), I was the one who processed all the procedures.
I gave them all the existing buildings, etc. The only thing that was lacking was the stamp like
you said and as a courtesy to you I went up there again to check all the columns, check
everything out again and I also have the key to the place, I can get in and out any time and there
hasn't been any major improvements since the first one that I gave to you which wasn't stamped.
Then there is the one I stamped so that they have it over here, so you have both of them. So if
you have any questions about that I can answer it in two ways but one was the original one
which you have and I can show you the copies I submitted but they were not stamped by me. It
was the original drawing done in construction. But since you asked for the thing I went out
again to make sure I didn't miss anything.
And for your information working with Peter Taylor we did go out there to do the prior
survey. We also went out there to take pictures, I was going to show you all the pictures we took
outside and everything so it would confirm to what you would want. There weren't any major
changes on the outside and then we went inside looking at the columns and everything else, the
structure, there was no change. Basically that is what we did. So your question is good except
that we did, I had to go out, I am an engineer, I have to go out, my word is pretty good and I go
by my signature. So the question I asked earlier today at the beginning was what do you want
and I will give it to you right now but you haven't asked for it so I will sit and wait.
Ms. Morikami: I have a question for the Deputy. On the form here that we are looking at
there is no mention, it says owner, James Christiansen. There is no owner's representative. I
wonder if on the forms that the inspectors use, do they have a phone contact of the person
directly related or responsible for the property? Maybe that is where part of the confusion is
regarding Jane Abramao versus Gerry Kaluna. Is there anywhere on the form that the inspector
can just look who the person is and where to call?
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
28
Mr. Ain: That is under the applicant on the form. You are looking at the inspection form
which has the owner. The application gives contact information. In this case it gives contact
information for the owner but usually will give contact information for the applicant. If not we
usually make contact with the applicant and have that noted somewhere but the applicant usually
fills that out.
Mr. Kaluna: Does that answer your question? He sent in an affidavit that I was his
representative on Kauai and the number two was the wahine that was out taking care of the
rental units that he has been doing since 1996, 1997, all the way through. And he has been
paying all his bills to the State as recorded and met all requirements, etc. That is what it will
show. But what you are asking is proper I am just saying (inaudible), the bottom line is I was
doing all the work for him from the beginning and like I say if you ask me a question I will
answer it as best I can. I have one more question; do you have a tutu man or a father that was a
carpenter?
Mr. Kimura: Are you talking to me?
Mr. Kaluna: Yes.
Mr. Kimura: No but I was.
Mr. Kaluna: There was a Kimura that helped him build his building. Anyway I saw the
name Kimura. I'm sorry, let's get on with the business.
Mr. Nishida: Imai, when the NCU permit gets sent out should we approve this what does
it look like?
Mr. Ain: It is a letter informing the applicant that their NCU has been approved. The
NCU actually technically is the application initialed complete.
Mr. Nishida: I like that the original construction plans match the as-built plans and
nothing has changed. I like that that happened and the department put that requirement in, it
gives tracking. So under the NCU permit does it require visitor logs, TAT, all that stuff?
Mr. Ain: It requires that you have a GE and TAT license and have been operating long
enough to have paid GE and TAT taxes, at least one cycle of them. It does also say that you
have to establish prior evidence of that use and it gives criteria to be taken into consideration for
establishing that use. And that is including visitor logs, deposits, payment for stays.
Mr. Nishida: It includes and requires...
Mr. Ain: It doesn't require, the ordinance says that they shall establish a history of prior
use and in establishing that prior use the Director shall take into consideration visitor logs,
deposits, payment for stays.
Mr. Nishida: More I was thinking more about when they start renewing. I was
wondering what kind of information we are requiring from these people that are renewing
because that is going to be a whole other mess again.
Mr. Ain: Well we have already gone through one round of renewals and we required
them to show the GE and TAT licenses are still current, that they are still paying it and basically
that they...
Mr. Nishida: The GE and TAT license really is just something that you apply for and
you get. You are talking about that they paid the form, the GE 45 form, the amount that they
paid, the amount they took in and how much they paid. You are not talking about the license its
self, you are talking about that they are reporting income.
Mr. Ain: We have taken reporting of that income, yes, which they have to have license
enough to have paid for one cycle, which is required.
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29
Mr. Nishida: So it is not required for the renewals?
Mr. Ain: What is required for the renewal is that the operation has not ceased for, I can't
remember how long...
Mr. Jung: It is for a period of one year and your nonconforming status will be lost.
Mr. Ain: The ordinance however states that the operation had to go on at least 30 days.
Mr. Nishida: What is the department requiring of the renewals?
Mr. Aiu: Proof of your GE and TAT license and payment.
Mr. Nishida: So all they have to get is their GE and TAT license payment form.
Mr. Aiu: Yes.
Mr. Jung: But in order to get there they had to establish the prior use.
Mr. Nishida: Yes, I was thinking more in terms of when the renewals come in. It looks
like we are not going to see those, right?
Mr. Ain: You do not see renewals, no, unless contested in some way.
Mr. Costa: Imai, it was touched upon, I know you mentioned they are required to use the
unit for at least...
W. Ain: I believe it is 30 days is what the ordinance says.
Mr. Costa: I would think in the renewal documentation then we should be getting
something to show that they at least are using it and I think the point of the ordinance was if you
are not going to use it then you are not going to be reissued a nonconforming use certificate.
Mr. Nishida: So probably you guys are going to have to require visitor logs or some kind
of way to determine.
Mr. Ain: The most reliable proof we have found is actually the payment and filing of
your GE and TAT because as a government document it is a lot harder to falsify those.
W. Jung: And they did have to provide a sworn affidavit.
Mr. Nishida: How are you going to know it was 30 days because the GE is only a lump
sum.
W. Ain: That is true.
Mr. Nishida: The visitor logs would actually show the days.
Mr. Costa: I think visitor logs and receipts actually are proof of somebody actually
staying there. Visitor logs are not necessarily confirmation of anybody actually staying.
W. Nishida: Right. So it is you guys problem unless...
Mr. Ain: It is proof of operation for 30 days and again you are given that lump of...
Mr. Nishida: And if it comes here then we are going to have to see that, whatever it is
that you guys have concurred.
Mr. Am: Yes.
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August 10, 2010
30
Mr. Kimura: Mr. Kaluna, has the unit been rented out? Is it rented out now or has it
been rented out recently?
Mr. Kaluna: Since 1996 it has been rented out every now and then. He brings his family
in every Christmas, and friends, but he does rent it out from 1996.
Mr. Kimura: I am talking about right now or recently within the last month, two months.
Mr. Kaluna: Now if they have someone, yes. I don't know for sure if they have been
doing it but I would guess they would continue because there is no change. It is exactly what
they were doing. And they are in conservation under the State, okay, so you folks know that.
Look into it, it is a special situation, it is not the average property.
Mr. Kimura: Not being disrespectful in any way but you are the applicant's
representative, wouldn't you know if it has been rented out or not or do they go through a realty
company? Being the representative for the applicant do you know?
Mr. Kaluna: I haven't seen one let's say but probably he has. But I haven't seen one.
Mr. Kimura: What I am asking is wouldn't you know if the place has been rented or not
being the representative for the applicant?
Mr. Kaluna: Like I said the representative for the applicant is a lady inside, she has a key,
she is the one that could have been there, she is the number 2 rep. and she is there 24 hours a day
so I don't handle that. All I have been involved with is this project only.
Mr. Kimura: That is what I am talking about, this particular application in front of us.
My question to you again, if the unit has been rented or is being rented now would you know
about it?
Mr. Kaluna: Not really.
Mr. Kimura: So who would know about it?
Mr. Kaluna: I don't know.
Mr. Kimura: I am a little confused.
Mr. Kaluna: Maybe the State, maybe the County, I don't know.
Mr. Kimura: You represent the owners of this particular property, correct?
Mr. Kaluna: I represent him for the processing of this. I do not maintain or review the
property per say. He has a wahine who is a number 2 rep. if I am not available who does all of
that work. She was never contacted personally to be there so you are asking me questions that
are hard for me.
Mr. Costa: As far as you understand she is the managing agent.
Mr. Kaluna: Yes.
Mr. Kimura: So Jane, is that her name? Jane, so she would be...
Chair: Imai, apparently the unit is being rented out now.
Mr. Ain: They have been issued a cease and desist so it shouldn't be.
Chair: But as we heard from the representative it is being rented.
Mr. Aiu: It may have been and that would have been illegal.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
31
Mr. Kimura: And what is the County doing about it?
Mr. Ain: Right now we would have to go out and enforce.
Mr. Kimura: Thank you. I am a little confused but it's all good.
Chair: This puts the Commissioners at a hard position.
Mr. Ain: I know.
Mr. June: Commissioners, I think...
Chair: Shall we defer again?
W. Ain: I would hope not.
Mr. June: Commissioners, I think really you should look and focus on the law as it
applies to what establishes this particular use. They have met all the criteria, there was an issue
of whether or not they have missed a particular appointment but try and set aside your passions
and prejudices against TVR operations and try and follow the law is all I ask.
Mr. Kimura: First of all I agree with you but if they are breaking the law now you still
want us to give them the certificate and say go ahead?
Mr. Kaluna: (Inaudible) making an accusation that isn't true.
Chair: Mr. Kaluna, the Commissioners are speaking.
W. Kaluna: I realize but he is making an accusation that is not true.
Chair: Have respect.
W. Kaluna: He is making an accusation like the last time at your last meeting that I
didn't like. Have some class, have some class.
Chair: Let's have some class in just letting each other speak so we can all manao our
opinions.
Mr. Kaluna: He is the Chairman, I agree. I apologize.
Chair: Let me just have order, let him talk, let the attorney talk and I will give you a
chance so we all can hear each other's position.
W. Kaluna: I am sorry, I apologize.
Chair: I apologize for yelling at you too.
Mr. Kaluna: My question for the attorney, you want us to focus on what is at hand and
you want us to give an approval on a use certificate on a TVR. Now if they are still renting the
place when they were notified to stop you still want us to give us approval?
Mr. June: That is an issue of enforcement and liability of the County so we can go into
executive session if you would like to discuss that.
Mr. Costa: Let me just say I don't believe we have evidence that it has been rented out in
the period the application is being processed and we would need that to pursue any violation.
Ms. Matsumoto: This is a business so Mr. Christiansen, I think it is his responsibility to
let us know, not just the Commission, but the Planning Department know who his representatives
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
32
are. I think there was a lack of communication there. Now we know that there are at least two
representatives and actually the one whom we should be talking to is Jane Abramo. So that
makes what we do very difficult and I think it also puts, for Mr. Kaluna, it makes it awkward for
him. I don't think you should take anything personal because it is really about business and we
are trying to do the best job that we can and to review this application fairly. So that is just my
comment, it is business and if you are not living here on the island I think you need to...if I had a
business in Tahiti and things needed to be approved I would make sure I had the right
representatives there if I couldn't be there myself. It is just pure and simple business no matter
where you are. And that concerns me about this particular application.
Mr. Costa: Along those lines, Imai, the ordinance did require a 24 hour.
Mr. Ain: And there is a 24 hour contact name.
Mr. Costa: And that is?
Mr. Ain: Robin Simpson.
Mr. Costa: A third party.
Mr. Kaluna: Mr. Chairman, why don't we ask the wahine that is the second
representative from out there to come here because she runs the place, not me. I will try to get a
hold of her so she comes out here.
Chair: I think that will clear up a lot.
Mr. Kaluna: Because I really cannot say yes or no. When I went out there nobody was
there.
Mr. Kimura: I think that is a great idea.
Mr. Costa: Let me just say that what we pushed for and the initial bill was to include that
24 hour contact person so that it was somebody on the island that could respond and that is the
first time that name came up.
Mr. Kimura: Can we ask for, Mr. Kaluna, we already heard from him, but the other two
representatives, can we ask them to be here?
W. Ain: Yes we can.
Mr. Kimura: The other two, right?
Mr. Ain: Yes.
Mr. Kimura: I only see that Mr. Kaluna and Jane would be the two but apparently there
are three.
W. Ain: It appears to me that one is responsible for operations and running the TVR and
Mr. Kaluna is responsible for processing the permits.
Mr. Kimura: Thank you for coming out and apparently we had the wrong representative
show up.
Chair: Are there any other questions for the applicant before I take public testimony,
thank you Mr. Kaluna.
Mr. Kaluna: My understanding, my professional understanding is that you said it would
be okay provided you have a stamped plan. The Planning Department has one, I brought one for
you, it was stamped like the law and I just wanted to make sure all of this was here. Because this
was not required as he stated but it was done to satisfy you. Now I understand you are getting
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
33
away from this because I try to read everything that you say, your intentions are good but as I
understood it this is the last objection in your conversation. Right now I find we are all over the
place but unless I am wrong when I read all of your minutes this was the last Kuleana to cover.
If we got this you would pass it. Now I could be wrong, professionally I could be wrong, but
that is what I read. So I did bring you one is case you asked about it because it was done.
Chair: Thank you. If I could ask for public testimony, if there is anybody in the public?
Seeing none I will bring the meeting back to order, what would be the pleasure of the
Commission?
Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, I realize we have concerns regarding the representatives 1, 2,
and 3, but I really think we are here to discuss whether or not we can approve this application.
As far as the representatives are concerned I think it's an internal matter that the inspector and
the Planning Department need to address so that we now who is in charge first of all, second and
third but I think for us today we need to focus on this at hand. And I don't think whoever the
representative will play any part in this decision making because we have the information before
us. That is just my personal feeling.
Chair: Any more discussion?
Mr. Nishida: I agree.
Mr. Kimura: I agree.
Chair: I would disagree for the reason that there is an ordinance and the applicant has
provided saying someone is at the unit, that it is an enforcement issue but it is something that I
am grappling now that I cannot give approval to something that is illegal if they have been
illegally renting their transient vacation. Whichever the way the Commission goes, I probably
have privileges and duties and I know that but I sort of wanting to defer the item and get more
information on if it is really enforcement so that I know that it is an enforcement issue. And if it
is a nonconforming, that they are breaking the law and operating still, we have heard that, I
cannot give my consent as far as that right now but it is the pleasure of the Commission.
Mr. Aiu: I would just say at that point if enforcement does come before the Commission
that there is not really a lot of course enforcement can take before this body, that comes in the
matter of basically of gathering the evidence and pursuing it civilly against... criminal and civil
prosecutions against the standards of the CZO. There is no fine levying authority. Should that
be your basis to deny the operation I would advise against it but you do have your discretion as
Commissioners to make the choice you see best. However I would strongly advise against
deferral for the purpose of trying to pursue some type of enforcement against the applicant
because that just isn't the capacity of this body.
Chair: And that is where my point is.
Mr. Kimura: Isn't that why we are in the situation we are in right now with the TVRs is
lack of enforcement?
Mr. Aiu: Partially. We will go over the whole reasons why we are in this situation we
are with the TVR if you want but I would defer to the County Attorney.
Mr. June: If we are going to go into the details of legalities of the TVR ordinances and
the new ordinance that is coming out we would need to go into executive session given there are
questions of enforcement and liability.
Mr. Kimura: I am just commenting on his explanation.
Mr. Nishida: Let me make a motion and then we can discuss the motion. Move to
approve TVNC-1078 Hale Lam, TMK: 5-8-009:015, James R. Christiansen.
Ms. Morikami: Second.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
34
Chair: Any discussion?
Mr. Nishida: I think what the County Attorney said was that what we should be dealing
with is the TVR ordinance, this application as such and that any kind of enforcement action, I
don't know if this is what he said, but I believe that any kind of enforcement action about the
continuing use and continual rental without units on the...on these units is something the
department has to deal with. And I think continuing on this discussion regarding these things is
taking up time that they could be using to enforce against these illegal units. This particular unit
if we approve it and which the department is recommending is going to make any other
enforcement action on this particular unit kind of mute because we are going to approve the
permit. And so within this time period, yes, they are going to be wrong but we cannot fine them
anyway. There are not fines but they will be legal if we vote today or we vote two weeks from
now they are going to be legal. So to me I think we should just vote on this and see where we
are at. I understand your point but still I think to me we should just vote on it and move on. This
is the last one we are going to see on Ag. lands too if the Mayor votes.
Mr. Blake: So like Jan said compounding the illegality by saying I don't see anything, I
don't hear anything, I'm not going to say anything, do what you like. It is a business. You want
something from us show us why we should give this to you, don't leave us hanging or blowing in
the wind as to whether we should or shouldn't or how come or what. Come in and convince me.
I am not that hard to convince.
Mr. June: I think the department recognized the objective standards that they are
convinced they have met the criteria for the previous existing.
Mr. Blake: Then what is all this discussion about?
Mr. June: That is what I am trying to figure out.
Mr. Aiu: The discussion is about obviously other processes.
Mr. Blake: Some Commissioners are not satisfied that this person or this applicant who
has parameters within which they have to operate has done what they are supposed to do. The
simplest thing is to have somebody there because if, well I don't want to go into why they should
have somebody there 24/7 but that is the requirement. And so far it has been months since we
have known whether anybody has been there. Mr. Kaluna has done his job.
Mr. Costa: Just a bit of clarification, in speaking to our inspector as far as we know they
have ceased operations. Our understanding is Ms. Abramo, that lady is no longer employed
because there is nothing to manage and so I am not sure if anymore of this discussion is
warranted. So the department will work with the applicant, applicant's representative to update
any potentially new...I mean this has been in the process for quite a long time, over a year. It is
understandable people are no longer employed.
Ms. Morikami: I call for the question.
Chair: Roll call.
On motion made by James Nishida and seconded by Paula Morikami, to approve
staff report, motion died by the following roll call vote:
Ayes: Morikami, Nishida, Matsumoto -3
Noes: Kimura, Blake, Texeira -3
Absent: None -0
Not Voting: Raco -1
Chair: Motion does not carry it comes back at the next meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
Planning Commission Minutes
August 10, 2010
35
Commission adjourned the meeting at 2:06 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted.
49
U Aao~L'
Lam Agoot
Commission Support Cle
Planning Conunission Minutes
August 10, 2010
36