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HomeMy WebLinkAboutpcmin07-23-10 KAUAI PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING July 27, 2010 The regular meeting of the Planning Commission of the County of Kauai was called to order by Chair, Caven Raco, at 9:24 a.m. at the Lihu`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, in meeting roo2A-2B. The following Commissioners were present: Mr. Herman Texeira Ms. Paula Morikami Mr. Caven Raco Mr. Jan Kimura Mr. Hartwell Blake Mr. James Nishida Ms. Camilla Matsumoto Discussion of the meeting, in effect, ensued: APROVAL OF THE AGENDA Chair: Can I get an approval of the agenda? Mr. Nishida: So moved. Ms. Matsumoto: Second. Chair: All those in favor say aye, motion carries. On motion made by James Nishida and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto, to approve the agenda, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Chair: If I could get a motion for the receipt of the items for the record. Ms. Morikami: So moved. Ms. Matsumoto: Second. Chair: All those in favor say aye (unanimous voice vote). On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto, receive items into the record, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Chair: There are minutes for the regular meeting of May 25 and June 22°a, any revisions or amendments or corrections, if not I will entertain a motion to receive. Ms. Morikami: So moved. Ms. Matsumoto: All those in favor say aye, motion carries. On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto, to approve regular meeting minutes of May 25, 2010 and June 22, 2010, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS Status Report relating to letter (3111110) from Beryl Blaich, Coordinator, Malama Maha`ulepu requesting the Kauai Planning Commission review the conditional permits for the New Maha`ulepu Quarry relating to U-92-36 SP-92-6 Z-IV-92-38, original applicant Grove AUG 10 2010 Farm Company,, transferred to current permit holder = Jas W. Glover Ltd. [Deferred 4/13/10 Unfinished Business 5/25/10.1 Staff Planner Lisa Ellen Smith read staff report and department recommendation (on file). Chair: 'Commissioners, are there any questions for our planner regarding the Director's report? Seeing none is there anybody or is the applicant here or would you want to say anything? Is there anybody in the public that would like to testify on this agenda item? Ms. Jerrie DePietro: Aloha and good morning Commission. My name is Jerrie DePietro, I am a resident of Koloa and I am the secretary of Malama Maha`ulepu, a non-profit in Koloa. Malama Maha`ulepu sincerely thanks the Planning Commission and the Planning Department for your continued attention. We have asked for your assistance with reviewing the new Maha`ulepu and Old Maha`ulepu quarries because you have primary oversight and authority for the Use Permit, the Class IV Zoning Permit, Z-IV-92-38 and you hold shared oversight for the Special Permit, SP-92-6. Malama Maha`ulepu is anticipating having some of our questions about this permit answered today by the report done for Jas W. Glover by counsel Walton Hong. On May 25`h the Planning Commission requested this report in 30 days which would have been available on June 25`h so we look forward to hearing the report. Above all we are again asking the Planning Commission to conduct site visits to both the new and the old Maha`ulepu quarries. Today we would like to address the following; the status of the Department of Health permits and the continuing need for a site visit which I will talk about. We need to include the license agreement between Grove Farm Company, the landowner, and Glover, the quarry operator. Marty Kuala will talk about this. We need to stipulate a start time and the expected completion time and future inspections and the reclamation activities for the Waiopili Heiau. The old and the new quarries contain several cultural sites and David Chang and Branch Harmony will speak to these issues. Since the May 25th meeting some of Malama Maha`ulepu concerns required about the Department of Health clean water permits have been addressed. Glover Company did apply to the Department of Health Clean Water Branch for a renewal of the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System permit on June 23, 2009 and they submitted their storm water control plans for both quarries in July, 2009, at least 6 months before the NPDS permit was due to expire. The Department of Health Clean Water Branch here on Kauai though did not have the information when Malama Maha`ulepu asked for permit status updates back in March and again in June. However inquiring at the Honolulu branch office in June we did learn that the DOH Clean Water Branch administratively extended the permit. The agency is backed up on its permit application review due to staff and funding cut backs but the administration extension also did allow the quarry operator to undertake construction of storm water control measures and to commence mining. It is good that Glover Company is operating with DOH permission however described method of containing runoff has changed between the past site and the site plan submitted in the summer of 2009. So without site inspections how do we the public, and you, the permitting agency, comprehend this operation and its environmental protection measures? Malama Maha`ulepu again asks that you conduct a public site visit to the new quarry in order to understand the current operations to see the water retention measures, a berm, a pond, and a ditch, and to learn about the incremental reclamation plan for the 108 acre facility. The storm water plan states that operations at the proposed project will be composed of three inter-related components, quarrying, crushing, and product sales. From the pictures we can see that quarrying is occurring but what about the crushing and product sales, when will they start at the site of the new quarry? It is really important I think that we understand the Department of Health Engineering section which review permit applications, has not inspected the site, and is unlikely to be able to do so due to resource constraints and priorities. We appreciate that Glover is highly reputable however if I build or remodel my house a permit is required, the construction is inspected at several stages and the certificate of completion is issued. Surely removal of part of a mountain Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 2 ridge within the cultural, historic, agricultural landscape of Maha`ulepu merits some confirmation of the submitted plans. Malama Maha`ulepu understands that safety measures for mining are stringent however it should be possible for us to go in during and off time or to stop operations for a few hours in order to visit the quarries, any questions? Chair: Any questions, thank you. Is there anybody else in the public that would like to testify? Ms. Marty Kuala: Aloha Planning Commissioners, my name is Marty Kuala. I am a resident of Koloa, retired business owner, and treasurer of Malama Maha`ulepu. In 1998 Grove Farm Rock Company transferred the permits for the new and old Maha`ulepu quarry to James Glover Company. This appears to be a permit violation. The permit conditions which were recorded at the Bureau of Conveyances on December 14, 1994 and which you received a copy of at the last meeting, condition No. 7 stated that the permits approved herein are applicable to the subject property and applicant. Said permits shall be rendered null and void upon the sale and/or transfer of ownership interests in the subject property to the third parties prior to the completion of the project. Although there is no record of the Planning Commission and the Land Use reviewing this transfer of quarrying responsibilities and earnings from the quarrying material neither the County Planning Director nor the Executive Director of the LUC objected. The Planning Director did point out however in a letter to Grove Farm Company that the public could do so. Malama Maha`ulepu strongly thinks that the license agreement between Grove Farm Company and Glover Company should be reviewed and at the very least be recorded at the Bureau of Conveyances and appended to the permit record. All letters to the Planning Department and the Land Use Commission have empathies that only a license is involved and there have been no transfer of ownership interests. But what are the terms of this said license? How long will it continue? Who is responsible for the reclamation of the old and new quarries? In fact, what does the term "license" mean? Is it a legally recorded document or is it merely a form of written permission to perform certain defined operations on the property of the landowner? Was Glover provided with a legal opinion that the transaction with Grove Farm would not trigger null and void provision? The permitting agency, the Planning Commission and the Land Use Commission and the Directors and staff cannot simply disregard these issues or accept verbal statements and insurances. Quarrying is not a hand shake deal. At present the only public information consists of statements unsupported by any documentation. The financial details of the agreement need not be disclosed, these could be redacted. The portions of the transaction the Planning Commission, the public, and the LUC need to have in the record are the provisions assigning responsibility for the cleanup and restoration of the old quarry, of the Heiau, and of course but also the newly opened quarry. Malama Maha`ulepu is not accusing Glover or Grove Farm Company of hiding or mismanaging anything. Our intention is to see that permit conditions are followed and if they are not adhered to, to understand why not. We ask for your help in making the authority and responsibility for quarrying and for reclamation of the land degraded by that quarrying and making it clear, unambiguous and legally recorded, thank you, are there any questions? Chair: No questions, thank you. Mr. David Chang: Aloha, my name is David Chang. I am a lifelong resident of Koloa. My family has been in Koloa for 115 years so basically I know the character of the community. At one time I used to own stock in Grove Farm before they sold it in the year 2000 so I am a plaque member of Grove Farm. I have some knowledge of the area. Basically Grove Farm has been a very good owner, really, that company has provided jobs and everything for the community for a long time until they went belly up. We appreciate what the company has done for the community but we need to have this company follow up and take care of the community that took care of them before. I have seen that Heiau in its original form. My family used to go down there to catch paltat, cat fish, frogging and stuff so basically I know where the Heiau is and it is right there. Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 3 Basically it is just covered with a container that can be removed and you can actually sandblast everything away. My concern is the Mayor just came out on the front page article saying we must preserve cultural Hawaiian sites so basically that is in line with the County philosophy. We start at Spouting Horn and we work all the way to the end of the mountain and that would make the community better. Grove Farm has in this new management a good plan but we need to see that plan in its purest form, we have a sewer plant coming in next to the mill, we have this organic farm coming in, a 1,000 acre farm, we have taro being planted there, we have a proposed (inaudible) quarry, 15 acres, 50 feet deep to make gravel for the roads. So basically we are only talking about the lime quarry right now but we are not even thinking about when they start to harvest the blue rock which is in the same position, the same area. That area really floods. There is a big flood plane over there so we need to make sure that they do everything correctly, the sump pond, so that the water from the lime when it rains does not milky the water that is class A down by Waiopili. So we need to really examine how we are going to do it and I am glad the County really researched everything from the start to now but 17 years is a long time for things to come about. It is like the Po`ipu Beach hotel, we forgot that it was there until they just recently opened. We cannot have these things stagnate that long, we need to go back every 5 years and check every permit that is happening in any area of Kauai so that we do not get lost in paper shuffles and things like that. And Walton has been a very good lawyer for this company and I appreciate his knowledge. And I want to say please help the community to help its self, thank you. Chair: Any questions, thank you. Mr. Branch Harmony: Aloha, good morning, (speaking Hawaiian). I would like to speak to you in the original language, in the legal language of this Aina but it would require translators and probably stress my limited abilities. However despite my appearance I represent seven generations of families in the Maha`ulepu area stemming from Naka Pa`ahu, my great, great, great grandfather who was the last Ali`i Nui of the Koloa District, his sister Napihe held the Makuweli District. And he spent his last 34 years of his life living in Hidden Valley Maha`ulepu and won his property or his daughter won his property as fee simple at the spring there. I am a resident of Lawa`i, I am a minister of an inter-faith ministry. Our produce in under the label Hoioloa which means to make health food. I have been Kama`aina or familiar with Maha`ulepu since I was 10 years of age, introduce by my grandfather. Some of my mentors regarding this area have been (inaudible), Don Cataluna, Francis Ching, Francis Frasier, Ben Benyamina, cousin Sam (inaudible) and the Kapuna of the Royal Order of Kamehameha of whom I have been honored to have been a member of for the last 15 years. I am a member of Malama Maha`ulepu where many are involved. I believe I am committed to trying to preserve the status of this special place and many of its features. My family have also been stock holders of Grove Farm, managers and supervisors of Koloa Plantation before that, (inaudible), many of the families interrelated through there. In my pursuit of my degree from U.H. Manoa while needing 119 credits to graduate I accumulated 159, 34 were in the area of Hawaiian studies, another 34 in journalism, social studies, Hawaiian language. Many of my field work and studies were in the Pa`a and Maha`ulepu areas. Many changes have occurred in the 50 years I have been frequenting Maha`ulepu. Like my friend Kimokea who cared for me as an infant I lived in the Americas, I have been back over 21 years. I visited what remains of Waiopili Heiau, the rock edge, Kapuna Kea Pond and Waiopili Spring. I was part of a party inspecting the area around 4 years ago. I am attesting now that what I saw then was desecration, trashing, and ruination of one of the most important Hawaiian archeological Heiau sites in Hawaii. Dr. Francis Wolters, if he could be here he would eloquently describe the extent of this site in its astronomical use in star observations, charting of equinoxes and how it relates all in one complex which did not include a sacrificial luakini but focused on learning and astronomy. It is reclaimable but the site needs to be examined and mitigation factors need to be put into effect as soon as possible to prevent further degradation. What is the worth of this Heiau? It is one of the most important ones in the State according to Ching's studies in the 70's. It is why there were so many requirements placed on it Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 4 by the Planning Commission back years ago. However there has been no monitoring. There has been no follow up. I took on the responsibility of trying to represent my `Ghana when I accepted the name that my Kapuna gave me at birth and had it put on my birth certificate. I ask this Commission to accept the responsibility for what your predecessors took pains to set requirements to overlook and to ensure that things were done to properly protect this important site. Kapuna Kea Pond is full of stuff and rocks and slash and grasses and invasive foreign bodies. The spring is trashed and I saw bubbling grey bubbles of pollution in it. What is left of the Heiau is laughable. We found a couple rocks of what was once an extensive wall. It could be one of the biggest attractions and sites of the Koloa area of Kauai and could be a big boon to the community for the future and to reclaim what it means. I ask that this body take action to visit the site to see that things are done to bring it to acceptable standards and start the road back to reclamation, thank you very much, mahalo nui loa, aloha. Chair: Any questions for the testifier? Is there anybody else in the public that would like to testify on this agenda item? So I will bring the meeting back to order, in regard to the Director's report the planner has read the recommendation. In that this is a status report is there any discussion? Ms. Matsumoto: I have a question, who put these up? Are we going to have discussion or somebody going to present that? Chair: I was put up by Malama Maha`ulepu so we can have it taken down but if you have questions. Ms. Matsumoto: If they can just briefly explain. Chair: I think these are the same pictures they presented the last time. Ms. Matsumoto: I wasn't here. Chair: You weren't here? Excuse me, you want an explanation? Ms. Matsumoto: Just a brief... Chair: Jerrie, can you just come up and briefly explain the pictures for Commissioner Matsumoto who was not here? Ms. DePietro: Good morning, Jerrie DePietro. I will tell you what I can about these pictures that we put together. This one here is the site of the Waiopili Heiau, it is some photos that were taken, I believe the original report was taken in 1976. Francis Ching did an archeological survey I believe it would be called when they were looking at the coastal areas before the Hyatt was built. This Heiau here was quite extensive. I believe it represented agricultural Heiau. It is a beautiful and very important site. It is located not far from the sink hole. The sink hole is right on the other side of this. If they had continued quarrying it probably would have pushed on through but the Waiopili Heiau exists somewhere within this old quarry operation. Here is Maha`ulepu Beach with the Gillian House. Here is the cave. This whole red area is the existing quarry, the Heiau and the spring and the pond exist within the old quarry area. This area up here to the east of Maha`ulepu Valley were the Ag. plan is being implemented is the new quarry site so from my understanding of the ordinance when this quarry was operating and the new quarry was to begin the old one was to phase out within 2 years. And after the 2 years of the new quarry operating the Heiau was going to be available for restoration. So that is really what we are looking at is we would like to go in, see it, get a timetable, some start and end dates. These are pictures of the new quarry up above. At some point when this old quarry ends the crushing equipment, right now they are taking things from here I believe and crushing it at the old quarry but when this closes from what I understand they are going to need to have more equipment up at the new site. And that is when we look at where will the water and then have the pollution generated, how it will be dealt with. Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 5 This is an aerial of the new quarry area and this is a map we were given of reclamation process but you can see we really need to know the particulars about how they deal with the crushing and the pollution. And again here is the ditch, Maha`ulepu Beach and the Gillian House and this is the old quarry with the Heiau. And I believe this is probably the pond is still there and a fresh water spring. Chair: Thank you. Are there any more questions? Walton, do you want to come up, there is a question. Mr. Walton Hong: Good morning Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, for the record my name is Walton Hong representing the permit holder, James S. Glover. With me is David Pierrie and we also have John Romanowski and Mike Tressler of Grove Farm. Mr. Nishida: Do you have a reclamation or restoration plan? Is there a restoration plan for the old quarry site? Mr. Hong: There is. If you look at the staff report and I would like to comment to Lisa Ellen Smith for doing a extraordinary job for putting all the information together and coming up with it. And I think her summary the matrix that was attached was about the best that I can point out. If you refer to the reclamation plan, if you note on page 2 of the matrix it says "Planning Commission was provided notice and a public hearing on the reclamation plan was held on February 16, 1995 and the reclamation plan will be implemented after the current operation ceases at the old quarry." Mr. Nishida: I noticed too that there is no electricity going to the new quarry site. Is that going to be part of the new...when you move the quarry operations you are going to have to put in electricity, what is the status of that move? Mr. Hong: I have going to have to let Mr. Pierrie respond to that. Mr. David Pierrie: Thank you. We haven't finalized our plans for the crushing operations. Most of the crushing equipment is powered by portable generators which are subject to subject to (inaudible). Mr. Nishida: And then at that point is when you are going to be starting the reclamation or you have probably started some of it already but the reclamation is going to come after you move the quarrying or the crushing operation. Mr. Pierrie: That is correct. Mr. Nishida: And then as far as the drainage and the wash water that comes off, when I was farming I bought quite a bit of Ag. lime which is the sediment I think from the wash operations, all that is still part of the crushing operation? Mr. Pierrie: That is correct. Mr. Nishida: So the wash water actually contains some for me it was valuable material. So you retain as much of that on the site? Mr. Pierrie: That is correct. It is basically dried out and we sell it as required as agricultural land. Mr. Nishida: And then after the water ...so the water goes into the ponds because you already have been reviewed, the wash water is done by the Department of Health, is it clean water? Mr. Pierrie: Clean Water Branch, yes. Mr. Nishida: And so the water that goes into these ponds, does water come out over the limitation of the ponds or they are held in the ponds? Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 6 Mr. Pierrie: Our permit allows water to overflow the ponds and discharge under certain quality criteria. Our facility is designed and maintained in such a way that that has never been necessary so it doesn't discharge (inaudible). Mr. Nishida: Is there any monitoring of the sites below the quarrying operation? Is the old flow water going into any kind of streams, the new quarry site going into any kind of stream? Mr. Pierrie: Again it is a similar permit, same thing, it is contained and there is no overflow going into any stream. There is an irrigation which it would discharge into which is our permitted discharge point but there has been no discharge. Mr. Nishida: And then the water you will be needing for the quarry operation is coming from the ditch? Mr. Pierrie: We have actually got irrigation water to the site. Mr. Nishida: Through pipes? Mr. Pierrie: Through pipes, that is correct. Mr. Nishida: Thank you. Chair: Any more questions? Mr. Kimura: Do you guys have any plans for restoring the Heiau, Waiopili Heiau? Mr. Pierrie: Upon closure of our crushing operations we hand the site back over to the landowner, Grove Farm, and they do have plans for the restoration of the Heiau. The intention is to work with Stella Burgess and her group for the restoration of the Heiau. Mr. Kimura: Thank you. Chair: Any more questions? Mr. Blake: Was this handout prepared by (inaudible)? Chair: It was prepared by the planner. Mr. Costa: That was prepared by the department with some information provided by the applicant, the respondent. Mr. Blake: Have you had a chance to look at this? Mr. Hone: I did get a copy this morning, yes. Mr. Blake: Is this a complete record as far as you know of what has been going on down there? Mr. Hong: It is a very good summary of what happened down there. The complete records are quite voluminous. I think we submitted copies for information to the department in a timely manner on which this report is based and whatever was in the department's records. Mr. Blake: So this is an accurate summary of your voluminous records? Mr. Hong: I believe so, yes. Mr. Blake: Thank you. Planning Commission Minute July 27, 2010 7 Chair: Commissioners, any more questions, if not, thank you Walton. What would be the pleasure of the Commission? Mr. Texeira: Mr. Chair, prior to the call for the vote I would just like to ask if any Commissioners could do a site visit. Chair: So as a discussion you want to see how many Commissioners would be interested? And what would that reasoning be? Mr. Texeira: The reason being to take a look at the quarry operation. Mr. Dahilig: Commissioners what I would suggest is if there are Commissioners interested in seeking a site visit understand that any type of field trip would have to be within the prevue of Chapter 92 which would be the Sunshine Law. And there would be certain issues relating to allowing the pubic to also accompany any Commissioners at a public meeting, especially given the nature and topography and the hazardous nature of the site. So just keep that in mind that if Commissioners would like to see the site that we would have to be under the guise of a public meeting under Chapter 92. Mr. Texeira: Even if we went two by two? Mr. Dahilig: There cannot be any type of serial communication within the Sunshine law were Commissioners are provided the same information two at a time however two Commissioners can discuss a matter without committing their vote. Mr. Blake: Could you repeat that please in 25 words or less? Mr. Dahilig: Commissioners, maybe if we could take a 5 minute recess and I could discuss this with the Commissioner. Commission recessed at 10:09 a.m. Meeting was called back to order at 10.27 a.m. Mr. Texeira: Mr. Chair, I would like to make a comment please. I would like to make a correction to my last statement. I don't want to imply that the Commission should visit this site two by two like they are going into Noah's Arch. I would just like to request individually if we wanted to take a look at the site rather than two by two. But it would be interesting to know how many Planning Commissioners would be interested in visiting the site. Mr. Costa: Chair, I just wanted to ask, I know that any member of the Planning Department should we just decide to drive there we would not be able to venture beyond the weigh station due to regulations that are required of the respondent for operating a mine. So I would appreciate it if we would ask David Pierrie or one of Glover's representatives to at least expand or explain the safety requirements that they are under for having personnel operate the mine number one, but what would be required in any non-licensed or trained person to enter the limits or the boundaries of that quarry. Personally, me and Lisa Ellen went, thanks to the private bus operator we all rode through the quarry, limited somewhat, on the van and we couldn't get out of the van. But when we wanted to view something they would sort of drive in close proximity to it and maybe David or somebody from Glover could at least explain what are some of the requirements you are required to perform, and register trained people to number one, be a worker there, and number two, as a visitor. Chair: Before I let go do you just want to know a general consensus Commissioner on who wants to go? Is there a reason? You should probably state a reason why we would want to go other than just to... Mr. Texeira: I did state why I wanted go but the reason, I just wanted to find out if there are other Commissioners interested. If it's just me it is not going to carry much weight. Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 8 Chair: With that said is there any discussion if anybody else wants to go? Mr. Nishida: I would like to say something. The quarrying activity began August 19, 2009 so this is July, 2010 and the quarrying activity at the old mine ended on 8/19/2011. So the report from the department is that they are proceeding according to plan, the plans are in place. And then from the `Ohana side it was triggered as a basis for the yearly report. We are kind of in the middle ...going out there now you are in the middle of the situation, the new one has started, the old one is coming out and they are in the process of moving. I would think a more appropriate time to look at it is if there is a problem with the permit then we would go out and take a look or we are coming to the end...the most immediate concern is the area around the old quarry site and the reclamation. So to me I think a more appropriate time to go out and look would be either at the end of the quarry operation to look at the whole thing if that is what the Commission wanted. And more importantly if there was a problem with the conditions that they had to comply with. Mr. Blake: I didn't take the opportunity to visit the cave that was part of the Koloa Plantation Days activities but as I look at the map, is the cave located inside that red boundary that delineates the whole quarry? Mr. Costa: Based on our records, no. Mr. Blake: It isn't. So a visit to the cave is not a problem? Mr. Costa: A visit to the cave would not have to... it is not within the quarrying site. Mr. Blake: And then Waiopili Heiau is that inside any of the quarry sites? Mr. Costa: It is within the designated boundaries of the quarry area, yes. Mr. Blake: So even if it is restored to pristine conditions access to the Heiau (inaudible) be limited by the mining safety laws? Mr. Costa: I am not sure how you could, well and maybe the operator or respondent can better respond to that but my understanding of the requirements of people within the quarry area I don't think that would facilitate restoration of the Heiau while the quarry is still under the requirements it is. Mr. Blake: So restoration could be because of the safety considerations could be way in the future then. Mr. Costa: Or once the quarry is officially abandoned and approved for that purpose. Mr. Blake: So when the Chair was asking what was the reason for wanting to visit, for me it has been so long since I have been down there I have a hard time visual ...while I can see it on the map it is a one dimensional thing and so I have a difficult time appreciating exactly what is there. And because it plays such an important role in the cultural history of the South Shore I just personally would like to have a better understanding of what it is if possible. Mr. Dahilig: Commissioners, again I would like to just inform the members that should the Commission endeavor on taking any type of excursion or site visit regarding this matter that there is a litany of laws that will need to be reviewed and put in place before we can accommodate a site visit. I think what would be best is if our office could review what we propose as a site visit, take a look at laws concerning 92, American Disabilities Act Mine Safety, the Department of Health and all these different matters because there is a host of issues beyond just Chapter 92 that do come into play with respect to this. And because the public would probably, if a public member wanted to come along we would have to facilitate some type of waiver release of claims, indemnity agreements with not only ourselves but also the landowner and those things need to be negotiated. Maybe what I would suggest is if there is interest in some type of site visit maybe that individually be communicated to the Planning Director and Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 9 from there we can begin taking a look at what would be the legal requirements to facilitate a site visit. Mr. Nishida: Question, when is the next report due? Is there another report due? Staff: March, 2011. Mr. Costa: It is an annual report. Ms. Matsumoto: I agree with your suggestion for a time when we would visit being that it be toward the end of the use of the old quarry. I think that would be more valuable in my opinion. Mr. Kimura: Is there some kind of documents or old pictures that or something of exactly how the Heiau used to look like? How did they come up with these drawings? Staff: We asked Stella that question when we were on the bus and she said the construction was based on stories that were told. Mr. Kimura: These drawings were based on stories? Staff: That is what she said. Mr. Costa: My understanding in talking with Stella that many ancient sites how these drawings are done is based on what little or plentiful evidence might still be there and also through interpretation of chant songs. Mr. Kimura: So no one actually really knows what it looks like if it is not existing? I mean the restoration, how do you back to its original form when no one knows what it looked like? Mr. Costa: Through interpretation. Chair: Through interpretation. Mr. Kimura: So if you have 5 guys with 5 different interpretations you are going to get 5 different Heiaus. Mr. Costa: Having to come to some consensus. Mr. Kimura: That would be a little difficult to do. Mr. Costa: You might want to ask some of the members of the public that have testified as to having seen the original. Mr. Kimura: But like Jimmy said it is when the old quarry closes down and that is when I wouldn't mind taking a site visit. Ms. Matsumoto: There might be some research available too because Dr. Kikuchi mapped out the whole are of the (inaudible) coast there and identified the historical sites and I believe in his research there are mappings of Heiau and things. Mr. Kimura: I don't doubt it is there. Ms. Matsumoto: I am not sure if it is that particular map we are looking at. Mr. Costa: I believe archeologist Ching did the most extensive and actually did a drawing as well but if you read all of them they are based on viewing remnants. Mr. Kimura: I was just wondering because Grove Farm... Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 10 Mr. Costa: And getting testimony. Mr. Kimura: Grove Farm, they plan on restoring this Heiau once the site is closed down and... Mr. Costa: It was made a condition I guess if you will of the 94 permit. Mr. Kimura: I just can't figure out how they are going to restore it to its original form when they don't really know what the original form was. I guess the best they can. Mr. Costa: I guess you could ask Grove Farm what their plan may be but I believe they are trying to gather as much information as they can for when they get to that point that they would need to begin. Chair: And how they get to that point is really... Grove Farm will (inaudible) that condition to restoring it back. Mr. Kimura: I believe they will. I strongly believe they will do it but I just can't figure out how they can do it without knowing what it looked like. Chair: It is done on interpretations. Mr. Kimura: I am sure they will do a fine job. Their heart is in the right place from what I gather. Ms. Matsumoto: I just have a deep appreciation for archeology because you look at China and it started with a mound in some farmer's field and they dug a hole and low and behold they found, I don't know who that Emperor was, and all the horses and those clay pieces and they have just begun to dig and we are talking about hundreds of miles of this site. And so I think that is what archeologist do. They just have this love for discovering history, living history and that is the wonder of it. Mr. Costa: One of the interesting things in talking to Stella Burgess and the Grove Farm rep. I believe in the sink, and I don't actually believe it is a sink hole, but in the cave area I believe there currently is an archeologist on contract. And what they described was they do test excavation and initially what may have started as an archeological inventory is beyond that point to Paleontology, getting to a time actually before humans existed. Ms. Matsumoto: I have visited the sink hole a couple of times and it is really like that. Mr. Costa: It is really uncovering layers. And part of the problem I understand is what creates limestone is sand, blown sand compacted so that is the nature of the area is continual sand so much of the site area to I guess restore it would be to uncover these decades and centuries of sand being blown over. Chair: With that I guess Herman, the discussion out there, we have 3 Commissioners that probably would want to do it afterwards and I would be in agreement to do a site visit then when we do come to a consensus on restoring it. Does that satisfy you? Mr. Texeira: That is fine. Chair: With that, Commissioners is there a motion that I could entertain? Since we already received it, this is a status report and it will be a motion to receive the status report. Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, move to receive the status report. Ms. Matsumoto: Second. Chair: Any discussion, all those in favor say aye, opposed, motion carries. Planning Commission Minces July 27, 2010 11 On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto, to receive status report, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. COMMUNICATION There were no communications. SUBDIVISION Mr. Nishida: Subdivision Committee meeting, Tuesday, July 27, 2010, Subdivision Committee report, 1. Present, myself, Cammie Matsumoto, and Jan Kimura. No general business, communications or unfinished business. New business, final subdivision action, 5- 2010-10, John W. Ka`ana`ana, approved 3-0. Tentative subdivision extension request, 5-2006- 44, George Hoffberg, TMK: 4-3-003:004, approved 3-0, tentative subdivision extension request, 5-2009-17, Aukahi Farm, LLC, TMK: 2-8-012:001, 011, approved 3-0. Ms. Matsumoto: Move to approve. Mr. Kimura: Second. Chair: Any discussion? Mr. Nishida: Hartwell wanted me to report that he had a concern regarding whether the roadway widening requirement was wide enough to take into consideration the proposed K61oa circulation study. So Dale was going to send a request to the Department of Public Works, Engineering Division to come back with a report whether that was true or not and what was taken into consideration to do the road widening agreement. Chair: So that communication would come through your committee. Mr. Nishida: Yes. Mr. Costa: And again that was for item D.l.a. Ms. Matsumoto: I think the question was about what is going to be done, what has been included. We didn't know if it was including pedestrian and bike and the road. Chair: So we have a motion on the floor for approval, all those in favor say aye, opposed, motion carries. On motion made by Camilla Matsumoto and seconded by Jan Kimura, to approve Subdivision Committee Report, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. UNFINISHED BUSINESS There was no unfinished business. NEW PUBLIC HEARING Use Permit U-2010-19 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2010-21 to establish a telecommunication facility partially atop the roof of a supermarket located on K61oa Road at the intersection of K61oa Road and Waikomo Road K61oa Kauai, further identified as Tax Map Key 2-8-008:042 = Verizon Wireless. [Director's Report received 7/13/10.1 Staff Planner Kaaina Hull read staff report and department recommendation (on file). Chair: Commissioners are there any questions on the recommendation? Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 12 Ms. Matsumoto: Do you think there is place here for the language about encouraging green building solutions? I know it is not a very big piece of construction but I am just thinking that in all applications I would like to see... Staff: We definitely could have green language drafted. The template that we have been currently using specifically references LEED and green globes however LEED and green globes doesn't have standards specifically for this type of construction because it is so small. We could work on something during a break concerning construction and green strategies. Like I say it wouldn't have to necessarily reference LEED certification as LEED would be able to certify such a structure though. Ms. Matsumoto: You have No. 7 here about best management practices but just a phrase or a sentence, something that would encourage. Staff: If you guys have any questions for the applicant perhaps I can work on a condition right now. Chair: Being a condition, it is so small, the structure. Ms. Matsumoto: It is really small but I guess my point is I would like to see it in all construction language to make it standard because we always talk about... Chair: Maybe their refuse waste that they use to build that if a lot of the materials can be recycled or split into metal and not into the trash bin. Ms. Matsumoto: Exactly. Just to start making it a common practice to encourage people to go in that direction because if you look at No. 6... Chair: I would actually say the BMP's, if you could add in there the refuse of trash and recycled materials can be handled to minimize waste. Mr. Costa: Minimize waste and maximize recycling and reuse. Ms. Matsumoto: Minimize waste and maximize recycling, that is a good one. Mr. Costa: And reuse. Ms. Matsumoto: And recuse. Chair: With that are there any more questions? Mr. Kimura: Didn't we ask for a site map on all the towers from Verizon and Sprint and AT&T? It is not coming from them but from the department, didn't we ask for that? Mr. Dahilig: Just for legal clarification Commissioners, this is not an application for a tower before you. Mr. Kimura: I know. I just wanted to know where all these sites were. Chair: What do you want to say? Mr. Dahilig: That is all, this is not under the definition of the CZO this is not considered a tower, this is a structure. Chair: And I guess for future purposes in your applications for wireless communications like this if you can provide in our packets to the Commission a map that shows the vicinity of other either structures or antenna. Staff: We can do that. I am going to just give somewhat of a background on this, we can request that of the applicant and their particular utility facilities, we are running into a little bit of Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 13 a problem requesting it of providers who don't have an application before us right now. That is ultimately why you folks haven't gotten the map and I apologize for that but some of the providers are somewhat reluctant in providing the information at this time while they don't have an application before us. Chair: I guess what I was going to ask was, you know all the applicants that have applied and are approved already. Mr. Costa: Yes it has been brought up before and we will work towards that but we would basically need to query all the communication facilities that we have approved and then plot those on our GIS system to be able to then have a comprehensive data base that we could then print maps from time to time. Staff: That can be arranged but when we were originally, when that request was originally made of the department it was a request that all antenna, towers, and facilities be located. And actually I wouldn't say a bulk but a large amount of the facilities are out of the County's prevue, say they are in conservation zoning or they are under the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. W. Kimura: Wouldn't it be in good faith for the operators to give us that information? Staff: It would be in good faith. Mr. Kimura: But some of these companies are not in good faith, because they don't have an application they don't want to give out any information? Is that what it is? Staff: I can't speculate as to...we have definite leverage on companies when they are submitting an application to get a map of their site however I am not going to say they other companies aren't giving that information because they don't have applications. I wouldn't go that far. But we are unable to get all the provider's sites right now, that hasn't been provided to the department, I will just say that and I will just leave it at that. Mr. Kimura: Can you give us a list of who and where? Mr. Costa: We will work on that but I would imagine the first question from an applicant when we ask for a map of where the rest of their sites are would be what is the relation of... Chair: You know how many applications we have approved. Staff: That is what I am getting at, we can definitely provide the information of those the Planning Department or Planning Commission has approved, those we can get for you. But those will not represent an accurate depiction of the sites on the island and particularly the sites that have to a certain extent more coverage are located in the conservation district as well as the Department of Hawaiian Homelands because of the fact that often they are getting higher towers in those areas. Mr. Costa: Which would mean they are up on the mountain somewhere. Mr. Kimura: We don't really care how tall it is, we care later but we just want to know the sites are, not the detail of how big, how wide, just a detail of where the locations are. Staff: And like I said we can definitely give you the ones we have approved but I am having some problems with the others. Mr. Costa: Which I guess would graphically probably be a map with a bunch of dots on it. Mr. Kimura: Works for me. That is all I wanted, just the locations, Verizon, Cingular, Sprint. Planning Commission Minutes July Z7, 2010 14 Chair: Because right now we have nothing, something is better than nothing. Ms. Morikami: Is there any way the FCC would have a database for all the communications on the island, communication towers and so forth? Chair: We don't have to go through the logistics, you can just handle that. Mr. Costa: Kaaina is fresh back from vacation. Chair: We don't need to worry about how they do it. We can just say do it for the next communication. With that, any more questions? Mr. Texeira: In regard to those sites that are outside of the Planning Department's prevue, what would say, about half of them, a fourth of them? Do you have any idea how many, not how many but just an idea. Staff: I can't say half or a quarter but it is a substantial amount just because of the fact that some of those areas you are looking at less regulations and with another area while you are looking at more regulations, specially conservation zone, you are looking at more regulations or stricter regulations. However those are to a certain degree some of the more sought after sites because of their higher elevation. So I can't speak to the specific number but there is a substantial amount in those areas. Chair: If no more questions if I could ask the applicant to come up, if he has anything to add on the recommendations, if not I can go straight into questioning. Mr. Eric Kaneshiro: My name is Eric Kaneshiro and I represent Verizon Wireless. I have heard the discussion that you took part in and on behalf of Verizon we don't have a problem with disclosing exactly where our sites are in Kauai. Where we would probably have a problem is on new sites that we are still exploring because that is somewhat confidential. But once it is on the books it is public record. The second thing is we do file one hundred percent of our sites with the FCC/FAA but there are times when FAA says it is not necessary to file. So even if you went back to the FAA/FCC records it may not necessarily show because sometimes it is not required to do so and they don't want additional things in their stuff. But bottom line of it is as long as the Commission tells us that you want it we will provide it but again it is only for existing sites, not for new sites because that kind of gets into confidentiality of where we are covering and our competitors will always say well, if you are coming there we need to go there and it becomes a competitive issue. Mr. Costa: From what I hear it is only those that exist. Mr. Kaneshiro: That is fine and I will give that to Kaaina. I would like to just add some things to the staff report. Verizon is looking to place a facility in the back of the Big Save Supermarket. Recently in fact for the last probably two years now Verizon has been extremely concerned with esthetics. We stealth mostly all our sites now, especially in areas of general public population and things like that, if it is out in the country we still obviously use poles and undisguised poles. But within the city limits, within areas of I guess commercial use we try to stealth it, in this case here we are putting up a stealth shelter in the back areas. If you look at some of the photos that we have gotten and I think the fourth one down so you know what you are actually looking at, I think if you look at the third to the last photo it is the Lawa`i Beach. This is an actual installation that we recently did so this is what it looks like, this what a stealth box looks like. It is kind of made to look like an elevator shaft of some sort but it blends in very well. We let the landlord and we also submit color schemes to the County but we let the landlord kind of choose what they want as far as color schemes so that they match it to their building. We have done several photo simulations of the area, we believe that the K61oa site because it is substantially lower, it's only going to be 33 feet lower, it is even easier to stealth and it will blend in very well. I think Verizon has gone to great efforts to stealth its installations. We want to make sure that it is something that blends in with the community because obviously we want to gain community support. This site was also approved by the Koloa Community Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 15 Association so it is a positive there. I also would like to make a comment that Verizon also likes to co-locate wherever possible. We looked really hard at the Sprint tower off of the Koloa Church, that was approved and we looked at it and upon final analysis it was deemed that it would not be ideal for several reasons. First of all it was very, I guess in close line of site to the Lawa`i Beach site and because of that they felt that there would be a substantial amount of duplication in coverage. Basically it didn't do what we wanted it to do. The second thing was that it did not link up very well going back up to the road side up to the Tree Tunnel and that was one of our main objectives to cover the lower side of the Tree Tunnel. I should say the Koloa side of the Tree Tunnel. And the third thing is because we would be at a lower level, I think the pole is 70 feet but we would have to be at the 55 foot level. The tree levels Koloa Town its self are 50 to 60 feet and we would be shooting right into or below. So that is why after final analysis they said that we probably need another site anyway in Koloa Town if we went on Sprint so it was decided that we would be better off just doing a single cell site in the town its self and we kept it very short. Even if the site its self was, or the height limit in the area was 50 feet Verizon decided to keep it very low to almost I think about 8 feet above the roof tops. Just again to be stealth and just to be good citizens. Other than that we are requesting approval. I can take any questions. Chair: Any questions for the applicant? Seeing none, so you wouldn't be opposed to condition No. 7 from one of the Commissioners to allow your construction material to be recycled at a County Refuse Center, right? Mr. Kaneshiro: We are bound by regulations were exactly we can dispose of excess materials anyway. So I guess as long as they don't conflict with what is already quote/unquote requirements then Verizon would not have a problem with it. It is just that obviously we are not going, we don't want to ship it to the mainland or something like that but if it is on island, if it is an approved quote/unquote (inaudible) or something like that then it is fine. But the only thing I am apprehensive about is not knowing exactly what green truly means, again we have all this generalness of what it means but when you put it into specifics it has to correlate to what current standards or practices are. Chair: Any more questions? So is there anybody else in the public that would like to testify on this agenda item I could open the public hearing. Seeing none I will close the public hearing and bring the meeting back to order and with that what would be the pleasure of the Commission? Staff: I have the proposed amendment. Chair: Before we get into that I would like to get motion. We can close the public hearing and then... Mr. Texeira: Move to close. Ms. Morikami: Second. Chair: All those in favor say aye, opposed, motion caries. On motion made by Herman Texeira and seconded by Paula Morikami, to close the public hearing, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Chair: Then if we want to entertain a motion to revise then I will entertain the first motion to go into either approval or... Ms. Morikami: Mr. Chair, move to approve Use Permit U-2010-19 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2010-21, applicant Verizon. Mr. Nishida: Second. Chair: Before I call for the vote is there any, Cammie, do you want to make a revision? Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 16 Staff: Concerning a measure to address sustainable strategies during construction process the department would recommend that an additional condition of approval would be added which would be condition No. 10 and would read, "To the extent possible the applicant is encouraged to utilize sustainable or green measures during the design construction or operation of the subject facility including but not limited to the recycling of construction materials." Ms. Matsumoto: Sounds great, thank you. Chair: If I could get a motion to approve as amended by the planner or as added condition No. 10 by the planner. Ms. Morikami: Move to approve the application as amended. Ms. Matsumoto: Second. Chair: All those in favor say aye, opposed, motion carries. On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Camilla Matsumoto, to approve condition No. 10, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Chair: Any more amendments before I call for the vote, all those in favor for approval say aye, opposed, motion carries. On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by James Nishida, to approve staff report as amended, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Use Permit U-2010-20 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2010-22 to construct an administration building and covered pedestrian walkway at Kalaheo School, located on Maka Road at the intersection of Maka Road and Pu`u Road Kalaheo Kauai further identified as Tax Map Key: 2-3-002:005 =State of Hawaii, Department of Education. 1Director's Report received 7/13/10.1 Staff Planner Kaaina Hull Read Director's report (on file). Hearing was closed. NEW BUSINESS For Acceptance into Record - Director's Report(s) for Project(s) Scheduled for Public Hearing on 8/10/10. Use Permit U-2010-21 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2010-23 for the construction of an enclosure along the western end of the Lihu`e Public Library, measuring approx. 1,200 sq. ft. for three (3) Air Conditioning Units on a parcel situated on the northern side of Hardy Street, immediately across the Wilcox Elementary School campus, further identified as Tax Map Key: 3-6-015:029 and containing a total area of 53, 330 sq. ft. = State of Hawai `i, Department of Accounting and General Business. On motion made by Paula Morikami and seconded by Jan Kimura, to accept Director's Report into the record, motion carried unanimously by voice vote. For Acceptance and Finalization - Director's Report for Shoreline Setback Activity Determination. (NONE) ADJOURNMENT Commission adjourned the meeting at 11:22 a.m. Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 17 Respectfully Submitted. Lam Agoot Commission Support Clerk Planning Commission Minutes July 27, 2010 18